Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:47 am

that. is my. avatar. quilford.

VOTE: quil

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #14 (isolation #1) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:58 am

Mara!

Why do you want to skip RVS?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #23 (isolation #2) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:04 am

In post 19, Mina wrote:Why don't you want to skip RVS?

What makes you think I do or don't? Mara stated specifically that she was trying to skip it. I asked why. You immediately assume, or at least try to make it seem like, in my inquiry I want the opposite, which seems kind of silly to me.

I don't particularly like how you are trying to switch the focus off Mara. I want her to answer the question.

p-edit: posts.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #24 (isolation #3) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:06 am

In post 20, BipolarChemist wrote:This feels like an odd olive branch at the start. Like hey don't suspect me early game and if you do I'm gonna yell at you for doing such a thing.

I agree with this, but my initial thought was also that she's immediately treating him as town.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #25 (isolation #4) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:07 am

In post 22, Ms Marangal wrote:
In post 14, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Mara!

Why do you want to skip RVS?

Because of the nature of the game itself! It wouldn't matter as much if it were a normal game, but tm is srs biz and we must act as such

Pedit: look up experiences between me and serra

Also, mina, if I did use tokens on alignment I would be town since it's pretty well known I hate scum

In post 22, Ms Marangal wrote:
In post 14, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Mara!

Why do you want to skip RVS?

Because of the nature of the game itself! It wouldn't matter as much if it were a normal game, but tm is srs biz and we must act as such

Do you believe RVS holds no value?

Pedit: look up experiences between me and serra

Also, mina, if I did use tokens on alignment I would be town since it's pretty well known I hate scum

Is it?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #28 (isolation #5) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:12 am

In my experience, scum often want to skip RVS because that is when the slightest transgressions can be hounded for a lynch.

VOTE: mara

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #37 (isolation #6) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:27 am

In post 33, Mina wrote:so was curious to your thought process behind it.

Not that longer RVS is better. I prefer RVS to occur naturally. I don't particularly like forcing it one way or the other. I am always wary of anyone trying to do so, and Mara implicitly stating that she wanted to skip it seemed to me like she wanted to state what she was doing in an effort not to get flak for it. Kind of like scumMastin going "I'm not really trying" in order to not be scum read for not trying.

quil... "knee jerky"? This is definitely a bona fide scum tell, especially for me.

p-edit: posts.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #49 (isolation #7) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:55 am

Mara you seem to think I'm town already.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #52 (isolation #8) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:01 am

In post 50, Ms Marangal wrote:Everyones town until I find a reason for them being scum

Ok.. I'll have to check and see if this is how you always do things. I think it's weird.

p-edit: Quil, it wasn't the wording, or I would have said it was the wording. It was the tone and attitude towards him that I found odd. But if she's telling the truth about her methods it could just be a style thing.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #58 (isolation #9) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:06 am

In post 55, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 53, Quilford wrote:
In post 48, Ms Marangal wrote:Do you think her being kneejerky is indicative of etlscum?

If so, why

I think it can be indicative of scum rushing out posts. Knee jerk wasn't the best word to use, I meant something more like responding to posts quickly and perhaps without a lot of thought.

Like maybe not putting a lot of thought into the proper word to use?

I'd like to hear the explanation for how this is a scum tell and not actually a town tell

p-edit:

If you were scum. That's why.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #64 (isolation #10) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:13 am

In post 60, BBmolla wrote:Holy shit what a player list

Thank fuck I'm town

Not gonna bother voting on phone

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #66 (isolation #11) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:14 am

In post 59, Ms Marangal wrote:You're making my day, you really are

But, as scum what benefits would I get from lying about something that can be easily looked up?

Because most people don't. It's fine for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bb

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #68 (isolation #12) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:16 am

I like quil so far.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #76 (isolation #13) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:26 am

In post 70, Ms Marangal wrote:
In post 66, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 59, Ms Marangal wrote:You're making my day, you really are

But, as scum what benefits would I get from lying about something that can be easily looked up?

Because most people don't. It's fine for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bb

:/

This doesn't really explain the benefits

Well, if you're banking on the fact that most people don't, and they don't, then the benefit would be you getting away with a crappy explanation that doesn't look so crappy if no one actually looks.

If it was that solid, I'd still be voting you. You're asking me to explain the thought behind logic I have already deduced to be stupid lol... not sure what else you're looking for there.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #77 (isolation #14) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:27 am

In post 71, BipolarChemist wrote:I don't understand your retort to Mara here. Most people don't...lie?

No. Most people don't bother meta-diving games they haven't read.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #80 (isolation #15) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:35 am

Why on earth would I be townreading him for being cute?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #83 (isolation #16) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:38 am

I think it's really weird that BPC is assigning his own reasons for

my

read.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #86 (isolation #17) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:40 am

In post 84, Quilford wrote:Teehee! I like Mina's posts.

I actually do too.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #96 (isolation #18) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:59 am

In post 92, BBmolla wrote:Come at me ETL

Kinky.

But I'd prefer you do something more.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #99 (isolation #19) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:10 am

I'm inclined to think anyone brave enough to attack me isn't scum.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #335 (isolation #20) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:31 am

shit lots of pages. sorry for absence (it has been site wide). was overwhelmed at work but finished deadline last night/today so I'm back. catching up.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #336 (isolation #21) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:33 am

I see an L-1 on this page. someone unvote at least until I can finish reading please.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #343 (isolation #22) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:33 am

Last I remember of this game I was feeling good about quilford, as well as mina, and not liking bpc or molla. going through ISOs abc style for now and i'll have time to give a proper read in a few hours.

--

I have zero experience with alchemist, at least none that I can remember. ISO looks generally crappy but I'm hesitant only with the knowledge that he is actually at L-1. I don't quite like how he jumped to defend me at quil. It's a bit weird to me considering we had not really interacted and there was no reason to believe I was town at that point, but suddenly he's just playing "devil's advocate"? Not so sure about it. And then subsequent defenses thereafter that don't track for me. I also really didn't like 139 where he starts talking about tokens and how they were used. "A slight amount into town for me" seems... vague and not noteworthy, but he wanted it to seem like it was and therefore mentioned it. The question from mina honestly seemed like a joke to me (I suppose I could be wrong about that, but questions about tokens seem silly and wifomy), so the response was oddly serious. The tone didn't match. Then the fear at quil following mina. Which seems weird. Why worry about players geling, whether true or not?

The biggest problem, really, is just a lack of town things and an abundance of things that COULD be scum. None of them are super strong though and the wagon worries me, but I'd be happy with this lynch at this point. I'm still working on the other ISOs. Will reassess if necessary when I finish that and vote.

--

BB bothered me quite a bit at first. I'm not quite sure how to read the bravado. He seems super abrasive here, which is different from what I remember of him. the games I'm specifically thinking of are my newbie, brass and shrapnel, and catbug game where he was scum I think but I don’t remember (will double check). Posts like 250 make me feel better about him though. It's often the attitude I have when I don't have the patience to deal with nonsense. Shelved for the moment as I want to get with my team on this one now that we're all back around.

with that, UNVOTE:

--

I didn't like BPC attacking me out of nowhere based solely on the fact that he saw other people doing the same thing, but my team (mostly sthar8) seems to think BPC is town. the only game with him that I remember was the lover game where we were scum together and he was super nervous about shit because ceph was in the game. I'm fine trusting my team on this one as a) I don’t have the meta and b) the meta I do have doesn't match so far.

--

I remember really really liking what Mina was doing. She was pulling strings left and right. I don’t think I've ever played any games with her though. I'd actually be interested in anyone here who has. A lot of the posts/conclusions she's making seem to come from a meta stand point, so it is somewhat hard to follow.

...

This is being cut short due to emergency project. Will return in a few hours after the bosses leave.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #351 (isolation #23) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:13 am

In post 348, Mina wrote:On that note, ETL, did your teammates mention anything about Alchemist21's meta?

Not really but I can ask. Unfortunately, all of us got hit with crap this week and we're just now getting active again.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #367 (isolation #24) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:46 am

In post 364, BBmolla wrote:
In post 359, Mina wrote:
In post 356, BBmolla wrote:ETL's post is gross

Do you mind explaining why? We got the exact opposite impression.

I felt it was super non-commital and robotic.

your mom is gross. how on earth can "really like mina and quil" and "really dont like alchemist and bpc" be non-committal?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #370 (isolation #25) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:48 am

In post 368, BBmolla wrote:I was referring mostly to your read on me tbh

and you wonder why i'm not fucking sure about you? you go around going "this entire post is gross" and then "oh i was just talking about that one part."

not to mention....

when have i ever been sure about you? when have i ever trusted myself to read you? when has doing so ever worked out? i specifically stated i wanted to get with my team on it because you're all kinds of wtf all the time. how is this any different from any other time i've tried to read you?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #372 (isolation #26) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:00 am

mina what is your experience with the player list?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #374 (isolation #27) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:02 am

i ask because it seems like you are very meta-oriented, and i want to get a handle on your perspective.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #428 (isolation #28) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:38 am

I am back again but not really (sorta kinda?) back and I am sorry!! I have tonsillitis! I can prove it but it would be gross.

I think I will do better with direct interaction.

Here's my gut reads!

town {mina, quil}
maybe town? {serra, bpc?}

null {patrick, bb, mara}
maybe scum? {alchemist}

Most interested in sorting the bolded today, with a preference on the nulls. continuing ISOs now as well. anyone wanna chat while i'm here?

hmm also i should note quil read not as strong as mina read. definitely leaning on her a bit here. serra read is mine - several games and hydraing with him gives me a good base there. actually was considering switching quil with serra. bpc read is my team's. sthar also thinks quil could be scum.

oh oh and patrick's read on me is so soft and nervous and i dont like it. he is on his way moving downward. mara is based almost entirely on what i read in the first few pages, and that is probably the weakest in the list thus far. bb is bb and i still don't like alchemist ISO at all but i'm getting paranoid about it.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #430 (isolation #29) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:43 am

actually.

VOTE: patrick

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #432 (isolation #30) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:48 am

In post 429, Alchemist21 wrote:Sorry about your tonsilitis, ETL!

I'm here, so you can talk with me.

hello.

can you explain what you were saying about why you jumped to my side when quil was questioning me? i mean, i can understand asking questions to figure out what someone is thinking, but there are several ways to go about that and you did it in a way that really made it look like you were trying to get me on your side, and the fact that we have no games together makes me think there is some other reason.

that other reason being the same reason i catch titus time and time again - if your scum partner DOES have experience with me and told you not to push me because they know that doing so would make me focus on you.

this is why it really sticks out to me because there was no reason for you to do that - we have no games together, no prior meta. so where did that even come from? at the beginning of the game there are no connections, no reads, and yet for some reason you felt the need to step in between me and quil and his questioning of me.

can anyone understand what i'm trying to say here?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #436 (isolation #31) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:07 am

I'm not talking about Titus or what she told you.

I used her as an example of what I am talking about, which is getting feedback on how to deal with the playerlist, which just isn't necessary as town.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #437 (isolation #32) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:09 am

In post 434, Alchemist21 wrote:If I didn't want you focusing on me at all, I wouldn't be doing this right now.

Except I've already said I won't be pursuing you today unless forced to. There is no danger for you to do this, especially when I've asked for people to talk to me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #438 (isolation #33) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:11 am

In post 435, Patrick wrote:
ETL wrote:oh oh and patrick's read on me is so soft and nervous and i dont like it.

Not nervous, your large catchup post didn't tell me anything about you. Your most recent post at least looks like you're trying to do something.

Blase then. Nonchalant. With kid gloves.

It's not like I'm a complete lurksack. I have a decent amount of opinions in the thread already and was quite involved early on. How is it that BPC, quil, mina and others have been able to form a conclusion but you go "ehhhhhh town i guess cuz my team says blahblah"

are you not playing this game? are you not interested in sorting me? one way or the other, i would think you'd want to be.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #439 (isolation #34) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:13 am

I get really skeevy about people who seem to be afraid of passing a read on me. Like I said early on, I'm inclined to think anyone brave enough to attack me outright probably isn't scum.

And you, Patrick, seem super hands-off on actually getting into this with me, and I want to know why.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #441 (isolation #35) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:15 am

You and I are talking about two different things, Alchemist.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #448 (isolation #36) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:39 am

it is self-centered, but only in that i am aware of how i operate, and its quite transparent. my focus shifts where it's been shifted onto me because i can only deal with so much at one time. in my experience, and i think BB or serra would be able to corroborate it, mafia who leave me alone more easily fly under the radar because i cant see them without more effort on my part. it is a failing of mine that i know about. its not that easily overcome.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #510 (isolation #37) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:44 am

Prod received. I'm here. sorry. I should have declared V/LA. I've been sick with strep and out of work (where I do all my posting). going back to work tomorrow.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #521 (isolation #38) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:08 pm

In post 517, BBmolla wrote:didn't he claim?

oops

In post 518, BBmolla wrote:well fingers crossed

after this? when I said I'd be back tomorrow? what do you think?

Mina town. quil maybe not town. Patrick not town but something someone said makes me think I'm gut reading. bb not town. bpc maybe town. I'm missing people.

fuckk. I've got my eye on bb at the moment.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #564 (isolation #39) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:48 pm

hmm k

VOTE: mara

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #568 (isolation #40) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:50 pm

Mara knew it was a fake hammer and still went to go after bb for it. makes no sense.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #572 (isolation #41) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:52 pm

In post 567, Mina wrote:Um, care to explain that, ETL (and the indifference to being my MYSTERY SUSPECT)?

Mara, why is serra town, though??? Not Alch.

I am often a mystery suspect lol I dunno what should I say to that? you are wrong. now lynch Mara.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #577 (isolation #42) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:54 pm

I think the fake hammer and subsequent posts from bb about it give him more town cred than anything else and Mara going "hey I'm gonna vote park on him" is really wtf. especially trying to say it's because he did it without a claim even though she knew it was fake so the lack of claim.... didn t matter??

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #578 (isolation #43) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:54 pm

you guys are posting too fast for me to read on my phone.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #584 (isolation #44) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:59 pm

yeah.... no. I don't like it.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #586 (isolation #45) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:00 pm

I'd rather lynch Mara right now bb.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #590 (isolation #46) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:02 pm

it doesn't bother you that there is no counter wagon?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #592 (isolation #47) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:02 pm

because it fucking bothers me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #593 (isolation #48) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:03 pm

In post 589, BBmolla wrote:A Mara lynch is fucking pointless right now.

explain this

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #596 (isolation #49) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:04 pm

In post 591, BBmolla wrote:An Alch flip of either alignment tells us SO SO SO SO SO MUCH

Add that to the fact I think he's scum

Why the fuck would we not lynch him

what does it tell us?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #597 (isolation #50) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:04 pm

In post 595, BBmolla wrote:Town Mara flip tells us literally fucking nothing.

and a scum Mara flip?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #601 (isolation #51) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:06 pm

In post 594, BBmolla wrote:Not really, no

In the case of Alch/Serra, the current play makes COMPLETE sense

Serra is voting Alch. If I was Alch's buddy right now I'd be bussing the shit out of him too.

there would be 4 others on the lynch as well. if he's town, then what?

there's no goddamn counter wagon. this is simple stuff that isn't easily manipulated and valid across almost all games. why are you ignoring it?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #604 (isolation #52) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:06 pm

In post 600, BBmolla wrote:
In post 598, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 591, BBmolla wrote:An Alch flip of either alignment tells us SO SO SO SO SO MUCH

Add that to the fact I think he's scum

Why the fuck would we not lynch him

Maybe you'll answer what Quilford wouldn't. Who are your scumreads when I flip Town?

Mara and Serra.

then why the hell aren't you voting Serra?? this makes no sense man.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #606 (isolation #53) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:07 pm

In post 602, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 600, BBmolla wrote:
In post 598, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 591, BBmolla wrote:An Alch flip of either alignment tells us SO SO SO SO SO MUCH

Add that to the fact I think he's scum

Why the fuck would we not lynch him

Maybe you'll answer what Quilford wouldn't. Who are your scumreads when I flip Town?

Mara and Serra.

If Serra's scum both ways why aren't you voting him?

this yes.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #607 (isolation #54) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:08 pm

bb are you going for info>scumread right now???

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #614 (isolation #55) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:09 pm

In post 609, Ms Marangal wrote:I want to break my phone.

I am tracker, lynch pat NOW

jesus fucking Christ mara

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #621 (isolation #56) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:12 pm

In post 611, BBmolla wrote:
In post 607, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:bb are you going for info>scumread right now???

Alch is my top scumread and provides most info

how is this so hard to understand

because I got the impression that Serra was your biggest read. and it looks like even if alch flips town, Serra is still a scum read. so alch's flip doesn't tell you shit. your conclusions are the same regardless. do you not see the problem I have with understanding your POV here?

also UNVOTE:

VOTE: patrick

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #628 (isolation #57) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:14 pm

BB YOUR LOGIC IS FUCKED UP.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #631 (isolation #58) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:15 pm

ffs

pedit what?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #635 (isolation #59) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:16 pm

bc you secretly love me duh

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #638 (isolation #60) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:17 pm

In post 636, BBmolla wrote:THERE WE GO

SO NOW WE LYNCH ALCH AND IF HE FLIPS TOWN WE STOP LISTENING TO ME

BUT WE CANT SKIP STEP ONE AND GO TO STEP TWO

you are on step 7.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #668 (isolation #61) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:34 pm

my play is disgusting? seriously? jfc bb you are one to talk.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #671 (isolation #62) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:35 pm

oh that was Patrick. same sentiment applies. I am not at all surprised by it.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #673 (isolation #63) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:35 pm

In post 670, BBmolla wrote:Your flip on Patrick was trash ETL

my flip? do tell. cuz.... I'm pretty sure I was never town reading him.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #679 (isolation #64) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:38 pm

In post 676, BBmolla wrote:
In post 673, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 670, BBmolla wrote:Your flip on Patrick was trash ETL

my flip? do tell. cuz.... I'm pretty sure I was never town reading him.

why aren't you townreading him

because he's being a soft waffley pansy while sitting on a leading wagon.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #682 (isolation #65) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:39 pm

In post 677, BBmolla wrote:And why was Alch "maybe scum" but you've never showed any intereest in his lynch afte rthat?

it would help if you actually read my posts bb. I am on a phone and still sick.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #684 (isolation #66) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:41 pm

I'm going back to bed. I will be here again tomorrow around 11 am EST. you can wait for that before hammering.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #720 (isolation #67) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:26 am

In post 708, Mina wrote:ETL, when you get back (whether it's tomorrow morning or D2), could you explain what the difference is between my wishy-washiness and Patrick's supposed wishy-washiness? What do you think of his reaction to Mara?

Because YOU actually look like you give a shit about people's answers and you actually look like you are digging, whereas a lot of his "probing" is surface level and he doesn't follow up.

In post 709, Mina wrote:Also, what's your read on BBmolla now? (at ETL)

Town.

In post 716, Mina wrote:!!!

In post 428, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:hmm also i should note quil read not as strong as mina read. definitely leaning on her a bit here.
serra read is mine - several games and hydraing with him gives me a good base there.
actually was considering switching quil with serra. bpc read is my team's. sthar also thinks quil could be scum.

HEY, ETL, PROVE THAT THIS ISN'T BULLSHIT SOFT-DEFENDING YOUR SCUMBUDDY!

WHEN I JUST FOUND META SHOWING THIS IS NOTHING LIKE HIS NORMAL PLAY.

Unless as your hydra buddy, he posted almost nothing whatsoever.

That's pretty much what it was. We have one completed and one ongoing as hydra, and several games played together. I'm quite active, he's not so much. I haven't seen a lot of him here tbh but I've been focusing on Patrick/Mara/Alchemist. My initial read based on his early posts was that he was probably town. I'd like to hear more from him, especially after the whole fake hammer/claim shit that happened yesterday. My current read on him stands the same - probably town.

Looking at the alchemist wagon:

*** Alchemist21 ( 4 ) *** Patrick Quilford BBMolla Serrapaladin

BB's town. Patrick being in first position makes me less inclined to think he's scum, at least not as much as Quilford or Serra. So if alch were lynched and flipped town, I'd be looking at those two, with a preference on quil as my team keeps yelling at me about him.

If Alch flipped scum, I'd look at

Mina ( 1 ) BipolarChemist (L - 4 )
Patrick ( 2 ) Ms Marangal EspeciallyTheLies (L - 3 )
Quilford ( 1 ) Alchemist21 (L - 4 )
Serrapaladin ( 1 ) Mina (L - 4 )

You. Or BPC. But mostly you.

As it stands, I've got mara, bb and you as my strongest town reads. That leaves quil, bpc, Patrick, serra and alchemist. My team thinks bpc is town. they think quil and Patrick are scum and null on serra. Other ideas have been alch/quil, though I think the amount of time quil has spent on the wagon and arguing with alch debunks that quite a bit. So definitely one of those two are scum, but not both imo.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #728 (isolation #68) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:54 am

In post 722, Quilford wrote:Hey ETL, planning on providing literally any reasoning for all the reads you just stated?

are you kidding me..... all i've been doing is explaining my thought process.

you don't like it, lynch me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #736 (isolation #69) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:06 am

In post 730, Quilford wrote:Where did the BBmolla read come from?

Explained this already. You are not reading. The fake hammer and subsequent posts from him about it were pretty damn town.

Why did you think Alchemist was town from his early posts

Okay wait hold up what the fuck

what...

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #738 (isolation #70) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:08 am

In post 731, Quilford wrote:Oh that was serra you're referring to the early posts of.

Okay. Where did the BBmolla read come from?

Answered. Again.

Why would Patrick being first on the wagon have any bearing on his alignment?

It's a persistent wagon. It's been on the entire fucking day. You think a partner is going to vote park on their buddy ... the whole fucking day.. when there are and have been other viable options at other points in the game? I don't think so. I just don't think so. Explain why you think it has no bearing.

What are your team's reasons for literally any of the reads you've said they hold?

I'll ask and get back to you.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #739 (isolation #71) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:09 am

Patrick had a reaction to mara? If he did, it didn't stand out to me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #742 (isolation #72) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:15 am

In post 741, Mina wrote:And Patrick is generally very cool and level-headed, so for him, this is rage-posting.

Ok. I've only ever played with him on skype mafia. What does the reaction tell you? That he's town? Because he "rage posted"?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #745 (isolation #73) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:25 am

I don't think scum would bother with a fake hammer, and specifically don't think BBscum would bother with a fake hammer when it would be easier for him to lurk it out.

I don't even understand what you are misunderstanding here. Patrick is first on the wagon. I'm literally looking just at the damn wagon. The vote count from Zor's ISO. I even said so, and fucking quoted it. These are not different things. I don't think a buddy would be the first to vote their partner and stay on it to near lynch like that. What the fuck is your misunderstanding? Where is the "disparity"?

UNVOTE:

I don't even fucking care anymore. I'm irritated. I don't like having to explain myself multiple times despite using very simple words and even showing you exactly what I'm talking about.

Intent to hammer

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #747 (isolation #74) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:27 am

In post 744, Mina wrote:@ETL: it's that he seems genuinely upset by Mara's claim, which I don't think he'd fake to that degree as scum given it's not his playstyle.

This is a meta argument that I have nothing to compare to. If you were partners with him, it would be very easy to manipulate those who haven't played with him much before, and considering he doesn't play that often, that would be most of us.

It doesn't even matter. Like I literally do not care right now.

Bah, okay, we're just spamming the thread and going in circles now.

BPC AND POSSIBLY SERRA, HURRY UP.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #755 (isolation #75) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:38 am

In post 750, Mina wrote:ETL, I'm not sure how alignment-relevant this is, but let me explain what Quilford is going for:

In post 720, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:BB's town.
Patrick being in first position makes me less inclined to think he's scum
, at least not as much as Quilford or Serra.
So if alch were lynched and flipped town
, I'd be looking at those two, with a preference on quil as my team keeps yelling at me about him.

This reads as though IF ALCHEMIST IS TOWN, Patrick is less likely to be scum. Is that what you meant to say?

no they are separate. the first by is general reads the. analysis on the wagon

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #756 (isolation #76) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:39 am

In post 751, Alchemist21 wrote:UNVOTE:

Quilford, that post does actually make sense. 743 Makes me feel better about you and worse about ETL, especially since now that Quilford is engaging her, she wants to hammer out of frustration. It sounds cowardly.

then vote me! quil will join you and then scum can hammer. it will be glorious and beautiful for me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #758 (isolation #77) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:43 am

In post 755, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:no they are separate. the first by is general reads the. analysis on the wagon

No. They are separate thoughts. The first bit is general reads, then analysis on the wagon.

Not that fucking hard. I was on a goddamn phone.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #762 (isolation #78) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:49 am

In post 759, Quilford wrote:How the fuck are they separate thoughts if you connect them by saying 'So if'?

Jesus christ.

because i dont spend my time wondering how my fucking posts sound! i just fucking post what i think.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #765 (isolation #79) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:54 am

like, it's part of a larger post that has connected thoughts, just because i interjected context on my reads before delving into the vca, doesn't mean it's impossible to read or understand and you picking apart semantics is a fucking distraction from the core message and what i was trying to point out.

p-edit: i am being crystal fucking clear.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #769 (isolation #80) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:00 am

quil what i dont like is you turning your misunderstanding of my posts into a form of scumhunting. if you want to scum read me for a statement i made, or reads you dont agree with, or somthing, you know, actually valid, i could get that. but when you go "hey this doesn't make sense to me, you must be scum" that makes my fucking head explode.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #771 (isolation #81) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:05 am

In post 770, Quilford wrote:It wasn't misunderstanding of your posts. You contradicted yourself, and now you're complaining about me getting suspicious because you don't think you should have to check your posts to see if they make sense before you post them

you think i should check my posts before i post them....?

and it WAS your misunderstanding. it was not a contradiction. this is how it looks to me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #775 (isolation #82) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:11 am

THE SO IF WAS TO A PREVIOUS SENTENCE

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #779 (isolation #83) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:14 am

In post 777, Quilford wrote:
EspeciallyTheLies wrote:THE SO IF WAS TO A PREVIOUS SENTENCE

WHICH ONE?

THE FUCKING WAGON I QUOTED

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #781 (isolation #84) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:16 am

In post 779, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 777, Quilford wrote:
EspeciallyTheLies wrote:THE SO IF WAS TO A PREVIOUS SENTENCE

WHICH ONE?

THE FUCKING WAGON I QUOTED

YOU KNOW. LIKE... THINKING OUTLOUD.

"TAKING A LOOK AT THE WAGON

.... *THINKTHINKTHIN* SO IF... BLAH BLAH BLAH"

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #782 (isolation #85) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:16 am

like.. it;s a fucking precedint statement, not conclusionary.

SEMANTICS

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #785 (isolation #86) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:26 am

fine whatever. do your little word games.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #789 (isolation #87) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:29 am

it's pretty clear. i say let's look at the wagon, i quote the wagon. i state where my reads on each person on the wagon stands. i then go into discussing outcomes based on alch's flip.

SO IF HE FLIPS TOWN, BLAH BLAH BLAH.

IF HE FLIPS SCUM, BLAH BLAH BLAH

if word usage is your bag have at it. i think it's silly. i think it's faulty, especially with people who have trouble explaining themselves. why the hell do you think i hydra so damn much? i think you are going to catch a lot more town than scum that way and i also think it's a convenient mechanism to subvert and avoid actual scum hunting. you can just go "he said this, which means this (made up thing), so he's scum. VOTE"

you can't just make up your own rules.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #790 (isolation #88) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:30 am

no man, you asked mina if she could understand your misunderstanding. you specifically asked her to find your logic in it.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #803 (isolation #89) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:22 am

I'm not townreading serra.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #808 (isolation #90) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:39 am

In post 807, BBmolla wrote:my team's comment on this game is basically that we're fucked

tell them to get their shit together. this is not their first rodeo.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #832 (isolation #91) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:02 am

is espy me...?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #833 (isolation #92) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:05 am

In post 831, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Espy says (don't worry guys this absence has been site wide) and that irks me. Also makes it clear he's doing ISOs in alphabetical order. If small scumreads keep piling up I'm going to vote him just for the pleasure of not dealing with him in a potential lylo situation.

this whole thing is fuckin terrible yo

first of all... what exactly irks you about having a site-wide absence that can be verified? is it the fact that it's not something you can pin on me to push a mislynch?

second, ISOs in alphabetical order... are scummy... how...? that's how people are fucking listed in the drop down box. it's how i've done it for years. suddenly it's a scum point? man.. scraping the bottom of the barrel here, aren't you?

third.... justifying a scum read on "i dont want them in lylo" is as shitty a cop out as it gets.

VOTE: johnnywhatever

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #834 (isolation #93) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:07 am

tinfoil hat theory: it's johnny and mina yall

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #835 (isolation #94) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:08 am

also, all that and no vote?

show me the money tough guy

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #837 (isolation #95) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:28 am

lol

k

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #845 (isolation #96) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:15 am

they got fucked up.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #848 (isolation #97) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:53 am

In post 846, Mina wrote:And can you answer the first thing I asked you?

which was what

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #849 (isolation #98) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:56 am

In post 847, Mina wrote:Also, can you explain how did they get so fucked up by an Alchemist town flip?

not so much the flip but the way the day ended and then the extremely long night phase. i didn't like quil's behavior at the end of the day at all. it was really reminiscent of titus running distraction at the end of D1 in Street Racers. but also the fact that serra completely disappeared. like, i get v/la and whatever, but he was around and he could have said something but he said nothing. followed by his replacemtn sounding super forced and weird, and coming up with nonsense to push me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #851 (isolation #99) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:04 am

mostly his comments on me for now. it takes me some time to process everything. easiest to start with what i know best.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #853 (isolation #100) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:17 am

In post 852, Mina wrote:Also, can you answer part one of the serra thing?

I did, i thought.. can you be more specific about what you're wanting to know?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #856 (isolation #101) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:22 am

In post 854, Mina wrote:Even if you'd apparently hydra'd with him and known he was lurky, shouldn't that make him at best null or weakly town and not probtown?

This?

He was probtown, based on his early posting. It was a gut read while I was getting into the game and trying to figure out who I needed to focus on. It became stale but we needed a flip, and then he wasn't around, which prompted me to take a closer look at him, which I did over the night. Then he got replaced and his replacement did nothing to improve the read; he only reinforced the suspicion.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #858 (isolation #102) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:08 am

In post 857, BBmolla wrote:I don't really like looking at this game cause it's pretty demoralizing

Patrick can we talk about stuff, where do you stand readswise

just vote johnny

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #862 (isolation #103) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:23 am

interesting.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #864 (isolation #104) » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:25 am

In post 863, Mina wrote:It's the least interesting thing ever. Putting him at L-1 right now is dumb.

not really.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:41 am

In post 867, Mina wrote:ETL, certain people have done nothing today, and he hasn't finished his catch-up. I don't want a Alchemist Pt. 2. We can wait. What's your rush?

I like lynching scum. But really I don't have a rush. It was more about you.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #887 (isolation #106) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:23 am

I don't get you

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #890 (isolation #107) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:50 am

In post 889, Mina wrote:
In post 887, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:I don't get you

Don't worry, the feeling is mutual! (I don't mean this in a mean way.) But I do want an actual answer.

I dunno. just felt right at that moment.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #891 (isolation #108) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:51 am

Johnny are you saying you see a scum team of me/bpc? that makes sense to you...?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #893 (isolation #109) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:55 am

sorry

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #894 (isolation #110) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:56 am

I did say it was a tinfoil hat theory and no one fucking responded to me >:(

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #895 (isolation #111) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:56 am

except you

I would like to lunch Johnny.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #897 (isolation #112) » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:15 am

In post 896, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
In post 891, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Johnny are you saying you see a scum team of me/bpc? that makes sense to you...?

I don't do associative reads until I have a reason to. Trying to find teams is something that's turns me into a drooling idiot.

yah k but if you see us as scummy independently, wouldn't it stand to reason that you are wrong about one of them? so my question to you is more about what you will do with my flip (or bpc's)? if you are wrong, where will you look? are you simply running a ranked list for poe? or do you have some logical reasons for the order you put those reads in? ie are they all the same strength or are there tiers?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #935 (isolation #113) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:45 am

i'm here.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #936 (isolation #114) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:54 am

I am generally NOT here on the weekends.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #942 (isolation #115) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:05 am

i dont know what to say.

EspeciallyTheLies · Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:27 am

I'm fighting depression? and would rather not subject my team to a replacement when I'm the one that brought it all together in the first place. I will kick out of it soon. just need to get through one more final exam. I'm sorry.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #967 (isolation #117) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:29 am

In post 952, BBmolla wrote:
In post 920, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
In post 916, Mina wrote:7) JF, read on BBmolla. Explanation for why it's not a town read on BBmolla. Go!

My read is "This man ain't said anything useful, and now that he was so wrong on day one everyone's ok with him barely posting anything on day 2 because he's sad or something." I've seen nothing even close to content come from him (much less anything townie), and unlike Patrick he doesn't even seem to be playing to win.

Why is he town?

that last sentence looks more to me like, "this is why he's scum". if you were indicating a null read, why go with this phrasing? "why is he town?" suggests that you think he's NOT town, and if you're NOT town, you are mafia.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #968 (isolation #118) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:30 am

so is bb town or scum, johnny boy?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #971 (isolation #119) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:13 am

a false dichotomy? i dunno about you but when i run mafia games, there's mafia, and there's town. There's no alignment called "null".

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #972 (isolation #120) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:15 am

In post 969, JohnnyFarrar wrote:he hasn't done anything in this game

oh yeah i guess you're right. i mean, you know, except for the perfectly executed fake hammer.

sure scum can do it. but on town?

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #973 (isolation #121) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:17 am

In post 969, JohnnyFarrar wrote:1. He's put forth more emotion than content

What does this mean to you?

2. If he's town he's bad at it

Okay.... so?

3. If he's scum he's winning

Does this mean he

looks

town to you? Or that you don't like the fact that he is being townread? Because what that tells me is that you feel threatened by these townreads. And if you are scum, townreads on town ARE a threat to you and you would justified, so if he's indeed town, kinda makes you more likely to be scum.

See my problem with the slot? It's not a scumread, but it's definitely not a townread.

Honestly I'm not buying this BS.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #975 (isolation #122) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:30 am

In post 974, Patrick wrote:I don't think Johnny's bbmolla stance is that hard to follow tbh.

i didn't say it was hard to follow. i said it was bullshit.

Is there a reason he's getting flak for it and Quilford isn't? They don't seem much different to me.

my team thinks he's scum anyway. let's get johnny first then quil.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #977 (isolation #123) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:42 am

In post 976, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 969, JohnnyFarrar wrote:1. He's put forth more emotion than content

What does this mean to you?

Exactly what I've been saying. nothing.

.... then why did you mention it if it means nothing to you? It must mean something... it was significant enough for you to list as a reason he's "not town". right?

2. If he's town he's bad at it

Okay.... so?

See above

See above.

3. If he's scum he's winning

Does this mean he
looks
town to you? Or that you don't like the fact that he is being townread? Because what that tells me is that you feel threatened by these townreads. And if you are scum, townreads on town ARE a threat to you and you would justified, so if he's indeed town, kinda makes you more likely to be scum.

It means he looks like nothing, and if he's scum that's bad for us.

Why..... ? If he's scum and you're town, then it's clearly not working...?

See my problem with the slot? It's not a scumread, but it's definitely not a townread.

Honestly I'm not buying this BS.

Gonna type this out real slow so you can go ahead and read it real slow. He has done nothing to look town or scum to me because he's not playing the game. His current strategy is bad and he doesn't seem to be trying to win as either alignment. The best
feeling
I can communicate to you about his alignment is a gut read, and I'm not gonna give you that because gut reads at this stage would be ludicrous.

The silly notion that I somehow have to have a stance on him is confusing at best, and scummy at worst. So again I'll ask, why is he town? My ears are open, because honestly I'm starting to suspect that you don't have an answer.

Really. Asking you to be accountable to yourself and the game is "confusing at best and scummy at worst"?

I've already given you an answer as to why I think he's town. I've mentioned it several times. You continuing to pretend like it doesn't exist isn't going to magically make it so.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #979 (isolation #124) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:51 am

In post 978, JohnnyFarrar wrote:What makes
townBB
any more likely than
scumBB
to fake hammer?

FTFY. Reading the game, and my ISO, would be preferable before you ask questions that have already been answered, especially when I have a fucking migraine and can't be fucked to give a shit about this right now.

When you want to be straight up about what you're actually thinking, I'll be here to pick at it.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:09 am

it's enough for me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #996 (isolation #126) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:33 pm

I'm not sure how many times I need to say I can't read BB before people start to believe me. I think he's town and he's one of the few that I have so I want to hold on to it or I will get more lost than necessary. Johnny wants to stick me with it then fine whatever. It's not going to change how I feel about it whether you or Johnny or anyone else likes it or not.

EspeciallyTheLies · Post Post #997 (isolation #127) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:38 pm

like forcing me to reinforce a read beyond what it is and then acting like having a read in that manner after doing so is some kind of tell is really something else.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:47 pm

In post 999, Mina wrote:Stop acting town, ETL. The game is broken if you're town.

I'm sorry, what...?

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:37 am

In post 1005, Mina wrote:Thanks for not responding to the post where I call you town and fitting more neatly into the narrative, ETL. <3

you are welcome. but you should thank the dirty bastard beers I drank at my birthday dinner. I got a telescope and some jewelry and nail polish and chocolate XD

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:39 am

in any case town reads are worthless especially coming from you who has waffled on people all game.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:13 am

In post 1020, Mina wrote:You mean like how I've actually
have
three pretty consistent strong town reads all game, while you've pretty much gone and called anyone you've townread scum at some point or other because your reads are completely inconsistent?

inconsistent. maybe. I don't know a lot of the people here. meta is something that really helps me. I don't really have that here.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:14 am

but I've been open about the reads I have had and why.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:36 am

In post 1029, Mina wrote:I haven't really been able to follow your reasoning for your reads at all this game, but I'll get back to you when I'm not working.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:30 am

Well, it's just that I would think if you really were that worried about me, you'd be pressing me harder.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:45 am

Then what are you seeing, Mina?

What does the Alchemist wagon tell you?

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:01 am

In post 1038, Mina wrote:Can you read Quilford's ISO in the game I linked in Post 1 and tell me if you agree, ETL?

I will read it, but I am going to tell you ahead of time that cold meta does nothing for me. If I'm not in the game and I can't feel what's going on, a naked ISO is just words on a screen.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:04 am

The posting itself seems off-the-cuff and aggressive.

Is posting style very indicative for him? I think it really depends on the player list, momentum of the game, and how fun/not fun it is.

This game has been a drag. It has made people hiding in the shadows seem reasonable. Which is another thing, to bring up BB again, that Johnny is missing. Which is that yeah I do fucking think BB would slink into the shadows as much as possible as scum, and a fake hammer is the opposite of that.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:10 am

In post 1043, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
In post 982, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Is that coming from like Meta knowledge or?

.... yes..... I already said that.... Why are you asking useless questions?

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:11 am

In post 1044, Mina wrote:@ETL: it's not posting style. It's that his case on BBmolla in that game was GARBAGE, and his reasons for suspecting him were very superficial and scripted and rigid. And he just did this bizarre tunnel that seemed insincere. Here he has posts that look like actual scumhunting.

Was he town or scum in that game? And is this a pattern in his play or just a singular example?

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:22 am

In post 1047, Mina wrote:Quilford was scum in that game. That's my point: he's readable, not very good as scum, and is known for being flaky when he draws it.

ok. noted. though i'd like corroboration from at least one other person in the game who has played with him.

i think you sound genuine in what you are and have been doing. it's not that i've waffled on you so much as i feel shaky without having played with you before. while I don’t rely on meta to make or break a read, it's a jumping point for me. A big one. I'm an emotional player. I grab reads on what I feel and pull strings from there. Serra and BB are the only ones I've been even remotely comfortable dealing with, and even then, reading BB has always been disastrous for me. And with serra i was hoping he would push me but he didn't. and then he left.

With serra gone, I don’t fucking know what to do.

pedit: mina...

i'm at work. i've been busy practically this whole game. i'm doing the best i can but asking people to repeat shit is nothing fucking new. i'm here and you can work with me my way or not.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:02 am

In post 1060, BBmolla wrote:
In post 1016, Mina wrote:Also, molla, have your teammates been weighing in on this game at all?

Basically just what I noted.

shos has a small scumread on Johhny, and thinks you are SUPER TOWN

shos said scum is in BPC, ETL, Quil, ETL and said ETL might be scum due to PoE.

before that shos said he thinks Quil is scum

MS agreed

then I need to be today's lynch

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:20 am

In post 1066, BBmolla wrote:I think BPC should be today's lynch

This is terrible. I'd rather go today. I'm clearly a big question mark for people.

p-edit posts

Patrick all my reads got stale. The night was hella long and then I ran into IRL shit. I'm working on getting things organized again. Right now I want to lynch Johnny. Failing that, lynch me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:22 am

In post 1077, Patrick wrote:What was even the point of this?

If you were reading for comprehension, you wouldn't be asking this question.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:06 am

In post 1082, Patrick wrote:No, I actually have no clue what the point of it was, considering you apparently think Mina is genuine, and what you said here isn't even slightly true. Perhaps what you're saying makes clear sense in your own head, but I find most of your posts extremely difficult to follow. I'll ask you again: what was the point of that post?

She threw a town read at me, and then commented on how I hadn't commented on it. I responded by saying the town read was worthless to me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:07 am

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to figure out about it tbh, in terms of "purpose". Assign whatever purpose you think is appropriate. I didn't have one in mind when I wrote it.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:25 am

In post 1085, Patrick wrote:I just don't think I get you at all. Almost every time I come in here I change my mind on what I think of you. Now that she's read almost the entire game, Fenchurch seems pretty sure you're scum, and though I'm less sure, I'm hard pressed to make a good argument for why, because I dislike alot of what you've posted.

ETL wrote:
bbmolla wrote:I think BPC should be today's lynch

This is terrible. I'd rather go today. I'm clearly a big question mark for people

Like, what on earth is this. Are you confident the guy is town, or just being a drama queen?

No I just don't feel like fighting in LYLO when my emotions are bound to get extremely wound up. Right now, we can spare a townie. If everyone is dead set on using faulty PoE to arrive at "ETL is scum" then it's much fucking better to let it be me, rather than waiting for LYLO when my anxiety over the situation is likely to result in a loss.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:36 am

It's not about attitude, and I'm not pissed off. Yet. It's a strategic maneuver and it makes sense. Can you honestly tell yourself that getting my flip wouldn't be helpful for determining likely alignment of other people in the game? And I mean specifically mine.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:43 am

He could be scum. The replace out is eh. Kinda of mitigates it a bit tbh. I don't know how I feel about Johnny/BPC team. I don't know that it makes a ton of sense. I'd like to get his flip first. I think that will say a lot about the BPC slot.

I don't understand Mina's "three solid town reads" and I think if she is town, that is extremely foolish. Especially if all of that ends up with me being one of her PoE options, because it's straight up wrong. I kind of think it should be obvious that I'm town,

because of

my play and not despite it.

I think I don't know on you or BB. And I like trusting my team on quil because his shit

looks

town on the surface but my team is screaming scum. Anti/TTH/Sthar are a force to be reckoned with and I trust them implicitly.

p-edit: yeah well if BPC or whoever ends up being town, I'm not fucking dealing with bullshit tomorrow I'm just not. So figure me out before this day ends or lynch me. There is no middle ground in this matter.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:45 am

I also think that Brian replacing into it is REALLY meh.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:54 am

In post 392, zoraster wrote:
Day 1

*** Alchemist21 ( 4 ) ***

Patrick
Quilford
BBMolla
Serrapaladin

[/color]
(L - 1 )

BBMolla ( 0 )

[/color]
(L - 5 )

BipolarChemist ( 0 )

[/color]
(L - 5 )

EspeciallyTheLies ( 0 )

[/color]
(L - 5 )

Mina ( 1 )
BipolarChemist

[/color]
(L - 4 )

Ms Marangal ( 0 )

[/color]
(L - 5 )

Patrick ( 1 )
Ms Marangal

[/color]
(L - 4 )

Quilford ( 1 )
Alchemist21

[/color]
(L - 4 )

Serrapaladin ( 0 )

[/color]
(L - 5 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 2 )
Mina EspeciallyTheLies

Total Votes ( 9 )

Needed to Lynch [ 5 ]

Deadline: April 14th at 20:00 EDT
(expired on 2015-04-14 20:00:00)

Corrected

why is the formatting of this damn vc so fucking complex.. jesus man... all those tabs and shit...
Ok.

Quil actually does look terrible here. Especially given the whole thing about when/how long he was on the wagon.

So does BPC. If I consider one on/one off, Johnny/BPC does make sense. However, the fact that the wagon DID stall makes me think that BOTH were on it, in which case quil/Johnny might make sense. Or Patrick/Johnny, on VCA alone.

In post 791, zoraster wrote:
Day 1

*** Alchemist21 ( 5 ) ***

Patrick
BBMolla
Serrapaladin
Mina
Quilford

[/color]
(L - 0 )

Mina ( 1 )
BipolarChemist

[/color]
(L - 4 )

Patrick ( 1 )
Ms Marangal

[/color]
(L - 4 )

Not Voting ( 2 )
EspeciallyTheLies Alchemist21

Total Votes ( 9 )

Needed to Lynch [ 5 ]

Alchemist21 the Vanilla Townie was lynched

Hm. Ok so then Quil unvoted because he thought I would hammer... not sure if that was for show or what. So Mina voted to put him back at L-1, and quil then hammered. This makes me think quil/mina tbh. Kind of like.. that was kind of weird. I mean, I get the unvote, in that situation. It could come from either, but Mina voting to place him back at L-1 is weird. *note to self to go look at that bit again*

BPC is still eh. Meh. Fucking eh.

In post 965, zoraster wrote:
Day 2

BipolarChemist ( 2 )
JohnnyFarrar
Quilford

[/color]
(L - 2 )

JohnnyFarrar ( 2 )
EspeciallyTheLies
BBMolla

[/color]
(L - 2 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 3 )
Patrick BipolarChemist Mina

Total Votes ( 7 )

Needed to Lynch [ 4 ]

Deadline: April 26th at 20:00 EDT
(expired on 2015-04-26 20:00:00)

BPC has been prodded

And this is now. Kind of an interesting spread. I like that BB is on the Johnny wagon, though I'm disappointed that it seemed more of a "idk wtf I'm doin so I will do this" kind of vote and not one of conviction. I think the Johnny/quil vote on BPC is telling if BPC is town, especially combined with their votes on the alch wagon.

The biggest thing for me is the fact that it did stall and there was no counter wagon. Really makes me think both scum were on it.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:56 am

In post 1092, Patrick wrote:What difference does it make that Brian replaced in specifically?

Also, do you think your scum play is very different to this then?

oh just that the only impression i have of him is as a lurker.

and i dunno. but i know that i put a lot of effort into being scum and that's pretty obvious across all my games. i mean, what i do know of my scum play is that i get very into it. being mafia is fun. i like it. i like seeing how i can manipulate people. i have a great time with it and i get involved and up in arms about shit. it's a lot harder to maintain momentum and motivation as town because i get lost and confused and frustrated and i tend to withdraw from those kinds of situations.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:58 am

like, i just dont feel the fire for lynching BPC.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:26 pm

In post 1097, Mina wrote:Why does a wagon on a townie stalling mean both scum are on it, though? Wouldn't scum not want to make waves if they're off the wagon, too? (Well, I guess scum could have pushed a random townie to look busy.)

Because if it was mostly town, why would it stall with no alternate option? Scum have to push things in order to a) look involved and not get bitched out for being lurky and b) lynch a townie. There was already a wagon on town. There was no counterwagon on scum for scum to decide whether to bus or avoid. There was no counterwagon on town to split the votes. It's in scum's best interests to get a town lynch as soon as possible, cutting off discussion.

So unless you are suggesting that scum lurked the day away on purpose, I don't see a more probable or logical answer than both scum were already on the wagon and couldn't build enough town support to shut it down fast.

EspeciallyTheLies · Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:28 pm

In post 1098, Mina wrote:this is nothing like his scum play has
ever been
?

I asked you this and you didn't answer. So I'm guessing the other game is one of many that match that tone?

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:54 am

In post 1102, Quilford wrote:ETL, do you usually employ VCA in your games?

yes... doesn't everyone?

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:01 am

In post 1108, Quilford wrote:
In post 1104, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 1102, Quilford wrote:ETL, do you usually employ VCA in your games?

yes... doesn't everyone?

no, because generally people realise it's shite almost immediately????

lol really... ok. objection noted.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:52 am

VCA is a valid tool and can be effective when used correctly. The people who sneer at it are the ones who don't know how to use it. CES can go fuck himself. Trying to say VCA is hogwash just to invalidate my analysis is scummy as fuck.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:57 am

In post 1129, Quilford wrote:Ok, you can go look at all the other ways in which I invalidated your analysis xx

You haven't. You have not addressed my "both scum on the wagon" theory. You have not told me why any of the conclusions I came to were "bad". All you did was poo-poo VCA as a tool, leaning on your team mates to back you up, rather than explicitly explaining the fallacies you think are within it. Like, this just looks to me like you are being caught out by it and that is making you nervous.

I've caught a lot of scum using VCA to support my theories. Idgaf what you think of it. Idgaf what your teammates think of it. If you're going to call me "bad", fucking back it up or fuck off.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:59 am

In post 1133, Quilford wrote:Looooooooooool

Maybe you can read the posts that literally fucking followed it
you idiot

Resorting to ad hom now, are we?

Ok.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:00 am

VOTE: Quilford

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:01 am

In post 1136, Quilford wrote:And maybe if you were paying more attention to the game instead of just having a shitfit whenever anybody criticises you, you might realise that saying I was 'leaning on your team mates to back you up' makes literally no sense

I'm done talking to scum.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:03 am

In post 1138, Mina wrote:Being mean is not a scumtell, ETL.

No. Do you honestly think I'm fucking voting him for "being mean"???

Come on now.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:04 am

In post 1138, Mina wrote:Being mean is not a scumtell, ETL.

This is almost more insulting than Quil's lame fucking jab at my intelligence.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:05 am

I'm going back to work now. Wake the hell up Mina.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:47 am

In post 1153, BBmolla wrote:I'm willing to let Brian catch up but that's probably who we should lynch today

UNVOTE:

So, I move my vote from Johnny, and it's no longer an option for you...

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:47 am

That doesn't make me nervous at all.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:07 am

In post 1156, BBmolla wrote:wasn't even a factor in my unvote

but okay

just pointing out what it looks like to me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:25 am

In post 1159, BBmolla wrote:Just pointing out it isn't what it looks like

lol... ok.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:57 am

In post 1163, Mina wrote:ETL:

1) Can you give the meta of you being scumread as town in a small game?
2) Did you put scum tokens into this game?

Molla, do you suspect ETL?

1) I'm sure I could find a bunch. Give me some time - but you really only need to look through my topics for micros.
2) No.

EspeciallyTheLies · Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:02 am

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=60969
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=61141
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61206
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60285
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=59632
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=59528

last few town games. one of them is a large i think so i added another. scum read in all of them. i think only one i wasn't scum read the

whole

game.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:30 am

fucking. lol.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:32 am

i totally forgot about that snork game. i was a shitty bitch in that one.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:32 am

and dead wrong like.. the whole time too.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:34 am

oh i'm here and posting but my opinion doesn't matter?

EspeciallyTheLies · Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:43 am

In post 1219, Patrick wrote:In what way does your opinion not matter? So confused.

You asked Quil specifically.

I was just being contrary. I'm going out to celebrate tonight so I'm in a mood.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:08 am

honestly... i don't know. it's not what i'm used to seeing from him. the post looks town. the fact that it's unusual by meta is really the only thing that makes me nervous about it.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:09 am

otherwise i'd say town.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:12 pm

In post 1323, Quilford wrote:
Viewing profile - EspeciallyTheLies
User avatar
Mafia Scum
Username:EspeciallyTheLies Add friend Add foeGroups:
CONTACT ESPECIALLYTHELIES
PM:Send private messageWiki page:EspeciallyTheLies
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Last visited:Mon, Apr 27, 2015 2:00.45 am

Total posts:9495 (0.15% of all posts / 11.78 posts per day)
Search user’s posts | view their topics

?????????????

????????????!!?!???
I'm consistently logged on my phone whether I'm actually here or not. like I was not yesterday and today. like I said I would not be.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:12 pm

In post 1325, Mina wrote:
Last visited:
Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:00 pm

OHHHH.

ETL, IF YOU DON'T SHOW UP BEFORE DEADLINE, WE'RE LYNCHING YOU.

ok.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:14 pm

In post 1340, Quilford wrote:
In post 1338, Mina wrote:I think I'd vote Johnny if it weren't for ETL being MIA.

Yep

k.

I was celebrating my birthday with friends.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:15 pm

In post 1352, Mina wrote:Fiiiiiine.

That I don't see a watcher going, "You should lynch me! Just do it! I don't want to be a distraction in LYLO."

(Granted, I wouldn't see a tracker spontaneously claiming, either...)

fucking duh

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:16 pm

In post 1362, Mina wrote:I mean, ask CES about the game where he quickhammered a cop who'd softclaimed VT earlier, so anything's possible...

(Pretty pissed off at ETL if she's town right now even if she's a VT for not checking in, since it might be what costs us the game.)

I wish Molla didn't look so scummy right now.

Can someone who can ISO tell me whether Molla/JF or Molla/ETL is more likely?

yall will figure it out.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:16 pm

In post 1367, Mina wrote:ETL GOES BELOW MARA ON MY LIST IF SHE'S THE WATCHER. UGH

p-edit: mind meld!

I am not the watcher.... I thought that was obvious.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:18 pm

In post 1388, Patrick wrote:And now ETL shows up on the online list. What the actual fuck

sorry. I just got home. long drive.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:18 pm

In post 1403, Mina wrote:(In case you missed it, someone claimed watcher.)

I did miss it. who claimed?

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:19 pm

In post 1404, Quilford wrote:Hey deadline's passed, we don't care anymore. Are you Watcher y/n

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:20 pm

I'm sorry

I'm the worst piece of shit in the universe. you are all free to blacklist me. I think I will take a break from mafia after this anyway.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:20 pm

In post 1409, Mina wrote:So you saw Brian's claim, but didn't say anything at the time since you thought it was obvious?

what?

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:22 pm

In post 1400, Mina wrote:ETL, are you the watcher? And why weren't you here until after the lynch?

because I'm an asshole. you should have lynched me.

EspeciallyTheLies · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:23 pm

I don't understand if you had a claim from Brian why didn't you lynch me? this makes so sense...

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:15 am

In post 1444, Quilford wrote:I just want to powerlynch ETL

Let's do it.

After I flip town, please lynch quil. Setting up his next two mislynches like that.. holy cow.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:37 am

If you are town, I will be sad.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:39 am

I'm fine being today's lynch. I'd like everyone to explain where they will look after my flip and why .

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:44 am

I believe the last mafia is quil. He tried pretty much everything he could to convince me and everyone else that BPC was the proper lynch when I wanted to lynch Johnny. Instead of anyone bothering to work with me - except for maybe MINA - yall ran the damn watcher up to claiming. Beautiful work.

You could even have lynched me, which would have still led you (hopefully) to a Johnny lynch the next day, and kept Brian hidden for one more night.

And despite all this fuckery for the past few days, no one considers they might need to fucking reevaluate? Seriously? Wake the hell up. I may not be here 100% but you know what, I'm not going to apologize anymore for having a fucking life. I'm not the only town in the damn game. Get it together.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:50 am

In post 1455, Quilford wrote:
In post 1452, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:If you are town, I will be sad.

I am town. You will be a convert if you check my scum meta, which has been rock solid sounds like a robot with a pole up its ass mixed with giant flakey mess since forever

We've been talking about your damn meta all fucking game and you have not hit scum once in your fucking reads. The very fact that you are aware of it means you are capable of manipulating it. I'm supposed to just take your word for it?

It just really blows my mind how many of the players in this game have blinders on. I'm sick of this game. I just want to be out of it.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:58 am

In post 1456, Quilford wrote:
In post 1454, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:I believe the last mafia is quil. He tried pretty much everything he could to convince me and everyone else that BPC was the proper lynch when I wanted to lynch Johnny. Instead of anyone bothering to work with me - except for maybe MINA - yall ran the damn watcher up to claiming. Beautiful work.

If you're town, I'LL be sad. I'm sure you would know as town how terrible an appeal this is
1. Being right about who scum is does not make you town
2. Being wrong about who scum is does not make you scum
3. How were we supposed to know he was the watcher.

YOU DON'T

HAVE

TO KNOW. But you should have at least given me the time of day when I was saying look at this fucking scumbag johnny. Instead you called me an idiot.

I'm not making any fucking appeals except "lynch me".

p-edit: you have got to be fucking kidding me. do you REALLY want to go into all the reasons why i haven't fucking been around for the last couple of months.... which is goddamn provable from forum records?? or how about compare all my recent town games, which i went out of my way to provide links for, instead of making yall do your own damn research?

Spoiler: ok then. we will do that

spoilered because it's FUCKING IRRELEVANT AND DOESN'T MATTER. what matters is the fact that i've given what i could and was ignored and called stupid.

so please. fucking lynch me today. i am goddamn begging you.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:02 am

In post 1464, Quilford wrote:its about what you have been posting when you have been here

too fucking bad. i'm giving what i can and i dont care if you dont like it. you want more, try harder.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:05 am

ok.

i'm town. you not getting my reads or thought process is a failing on your part as much as mine.

EspeciallyTheLies · Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:58 am

In post 1471, Patrick wrote:when you knew you wouldn't be around at deadline

I didn't actually know this. Things didn't quite go according to plan and I was at someone else's house until late Sunday. When I started posting was literally the moment I got home, and it was too late to do anything. Johnny got lynched anyway, so no harm no foul there.

However, that does tell me that his partner is definitely on the wagon.