13p Normal [TM2015]

[Trojan Horse]

Obligatory...

Vote: jason

[Trojan Horse]

Hmm. This "black-on-white" vote thing is new to me. Let's see if I can figure it out:

VOTE: jason

Yeah, there we go. This feature must have been added since my last game. Sorry, I'll use this from now on.

I think Jason i sprobably actually scum though - look at that post again.

Yeah, that post looks iffy to me too.

I'm also not happy with SleepyKrew coming in and just saying "Greetings". That's not helping.

[Trojan Horse]

I think it was doing absolutely nothing (though not participating in RVS certainly is a something kind of nothing).
I don't understand why he expected me to start helping in the third post of the game.

Doing "absolutely nothing" is anti-town. Even in the third post of the game, you could've at least cast a vote. That would've helped.

[Trojan Horse]

SleepyKrew: you mean, how would casting a vote help? How else are we going to find the scum right now?

...

I haven't played in three years, so the meta has probably shifted since I last played. But I hope it hasn't shifted THAT much. I've seen scum caught on day 1 because they didn't aggressively scumhunt from the beginning. (It's happened to me before.) Have things changed?

[Trojan Horse]

One more post before work...

But how does someone get set in believing that everyone needs to participate in RVS otherwise how will we catch scum?

Participating in RVS helps find scum. "Participating" could mean voting, or questioning other people, or whatever. Just saying "Greetings" is not participating.

SleepyKrew: you mean, how would casting a vote help? How else are we going to find the scum right now?

...
Me RVSing would not help catch scum. If I random voted, it wouldn't have been for game-related reasons. I don't want to continue having a discussion about the merits of not participating in RVS. Ask your team about it. If you want to continue calling me scummy for not participating in RVS, ask your team again.

Okay fine, I'll mention it to my team.

At least you are around right now, and you are actually responding to people. So my vote stays on jason for now.

[Trojan Horse]

Okay, I'm back.

Sleepy, Tammy says she's not bothered by your lack of early voting. Eh, okay. I've still got my eye on you, but I won't vote for you now.

Looking at people's isos right now...

[Trojan Horse]

I didn't mean that one person not doing RVS prevents the team from scumhunting. I meant that doing RVS helps the team scumhunt, and not helping the team scumhunt is scummy.


Fenchurch, a message from my team: Tammy wants you to clarify your scum read on Jason.

Malakittens, who are you intending to vote right now? You voted SK, then voted micc, then unvoted SK.

Micc, you said your vote on Jason was a "sheep vote". What do you think about Jason now?

[Trojan Horse]

Good answers from Micc and Fenchurch.

I agree with the whole "Jason might be rusty scum" idea. That first post does look that way. By the way: my opening vote on Jason was because of his awesome scumplay during the last Team Mafia. I figured if he is scum, we'd have a hard time figuring it out unless we pressure him right away. Maybe he didn't need so much pressure after all.

My vote stays.

My upcoming schedule: I'm off work from 4/3 until 4/12. (Easter break.) It'll be easier for me to keep up at that point.

[Trojan Horse]

VOTE: Egg

Was that an RVS-type vote, or a vote based on suspicion?

[Trojan Horse]

Also, it looks like this game is moving at a slow enough pace for the effects of my V/LA to be pretty minimal here. So there's that.

I'm surprised at that. I was thinking this game would be as chaotic as the Large Theme, and I'd be struggling to keep up (except for my time off). Apparently not.

pieguyn, Tammy wants you to explain your Jason-scumread some more.

Jason, how do you feel about this wagon against you? Obviously, you're going to say "it's wrong, I'm town", but what do you think about the people on the bandwagon?

[Trojan Horse]

pieguyn, Tammy wants you to explain your Jason-scumread some more.

I'll go through it in detail later tonight. does Tammy have a town read on him?

Not a solid town read yet, but she seems to be leaning in that direction. She thinks she can get a solid read on Jason, but it may take some time. She isn't bothered by Jason's multiple-vote opening post.

She also likes your suspicion of mala. I'm going to take a closer look...

[Trojan Horse]

Eh. Pieguyn, I understand your suspicion of Mala. Do I agree with it? Not sure. Mala's not pinging my scumdar.

Okay Boon, so you don't think Pieguyn is scum. Do you have a top suspect at the moment?

[Trojan Horse]

I figured if he is scum, we'd have a hard time figuring it out unless we pressure him right away. Maybe he didn't need so much pressure after all.

I'm trying to find the words to justify why it bothers me, I guess the closest I can come up with is: if you really think his scumplay is laudable, why would he be so easy to catch?

I don't think he would be so easy to catch. He has looked fairly townish lately. He could be a townie who just made an awkward first post, or he could be scum who has recovered well from an early slip-up. My scumread on him is weakening, and I need to be careful of that. He can be quite a capable scum.

However...

Also, as for my top scum read, it's obviously Jason. Even before he went and started being ignorant and making flawed cases. This just confirms it even more for me. He's posting things that are ridiculous towards me. Like my RVS when I was confused about why people were unvoting everything? COME ON! I'm the Boonskiies here! Look me up. I'm the craziest person out here. Like I always say...usually it's scum who isn't familiar with me who automatically pushes towards me.


VOTE: Jason

Oversoul told me that he thought you might be scum, so I decided to ask for your top scumread and see how you reacted. And I don't like your reaction. This vote looks like a vote from scum, trying to seize the opportunity to quicklynch town. Plus, this looks like an attempt to make us ignore any scummy behavior on your part. "Oh, that's just Boon being Boon." Right...

Again, hi. Jason...My name is Boonskiies. I'm known to hammer my biggest town read on occasion without letting them claim in a moment's notice. Mainly when I'm town! Me OMGUS'ing is nothing.

Duly noted.

UNVOTE: jason

VOTE: Boon

[Trojan Horse]

ISO me and you can see I'm full of self meta.

So I see. Then perhaps you should change your meta. It's not helping.

Sigh... I'm putting Boon back into the "can't read him yet" category.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: jason

[Trojan Horse]

I don't even know what I'm saying at this point, Sleepy. I'm just posting for the sake of being bored. Regardless, let's move the subject off of me self-meta'ing. It really is moot.

And just when I'd moved you back to "null tell", you start looking scummy again. You're digging your own grave, Boon.

[Trojan Horse]

Keep in mind, these are page 11 reads! Don't go over exaggerating everything like you all have been.

I'm not bothered by your list of reads, even though you put me on the scum side. But you keep on telling us not to overreact to what you say. That does bother me.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan bugged me with his 258 because it looks like a fence-sit where he could use to go back into the Boons wagon anytime he wanted to-type of feel post.

I guess I am "fence-sitting", but not the way you meant. I'm having a hard time getting a read on Boon; I'm trying to figure him out. Yes, I might go back to the Boon wagon. I'm thinking about it.

I'm signing off for the night. No time to comment on STD or Delta right now. STD: since you're reading me as scum, is there anything you want me to comment on? I'll do it tomorrow.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan - earlier you mentioned that Tammy expected to be able to get a good read on jason. Has she read the game recently, and if so, what are her current thoughts?

She's following the game. She's still trying to figure Jason out.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan - earlier you mentioned that Tammy expected to be able to get a good read on jason. Has she read the game recently, and if so, what are her current thoughts?

She's following the game. She's still trying to figure Jason out.

It's weird you are still trying to work me out, and the fact you are hanging on for Tammy's opinion seems like you are stalling not wanting to say anything incase it derails the lynch, also if Tammy has experience with me, I (and this is backed up by Zach) would expect her to have something already this deep into the game or even something to say at least.

I am not hanging on for Tammy's opinion. You're my top scum pick (though less so than at the start), so I'm voting for you. I only brought it up because Fenchurch asked about it. As for Tammy not yet having a read on you: I just got a message from her, and she apologized for losing track of our games due to busyness. I'm sure she'll have a more solid read soon.

I brought up the point earlier of no viable counter wagon (at the time) It would heavily suggest 1) scum is already on it or 2) they are happy to just sit back and relax without anyone having to provide alternative options as to them, and others it would seem the lynch is a cert and nothing else has to be done.

I'm considering that. The thing is, we still have 10 days left until the deadline. If you are scum, I wouldn't be all that surprised if your teammates decided to let the wagon be for now, and wait for a townie to propose an alternative.

Lastly: Jason, Oversoul wants to know if you spent any tokens for this game.

[Trojan Horse]

It's weird you are still trying to work me out, and the fact you are hanging on for Tammy's opinion seems like you are stalling not wanting to say anything incase it derails the lynch, also if Tammy has experience with me, I (and this is backed up by Zach) would expect her to have something already this deep into the game or even something to say at least.

I am not hanging on for Tammy's opinion. You're my top scum pick (though less so than at the start), so I'm voting for you. I only brought it up because Fenchurch asked about it. As for Tammy not yet having a read on you: I just got a message from her, and she apologized for losing track of our games due to busyness. I'm sure she'll have a more solid read soon.

Why less so than at the start?
Does it bother you that jason seems to overblow and exaggerate everything that is posted about him?

Why less so than at the start? Because jason's scumhunting appears to be genuine. It does look like what he might do if he was town and got caught in a bandwagon early. But it also looks like what he might do if he was SCUM and got caught in a bandwagon early.

Jason seems to exaggerate everything? That's a bit of an exaggeration , but yes, that does bother me. But is that how he usually acts? I've already been led astray through not knowing people's metas.

[Trojan Horse]

Eh my vote's useless right now.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jason

Is that 5?

UNVOTE: jason

This is only an unvote to avoid a quicklynch. I'm still eyeing jason.

[Trojan Horse]

I agree with a whole bunch of Thor's observations in #327, although I don't support the subsequent stuff on STDragons. To me STDragons' righteousness and indignation sounds more like town than scum.

Eh, let's see what Jason flips and then we can debate that. Nacho agrees with you though, so, meh.

Lastly: Jason, Oversoul wants to know if you spent any tokens for this game.

Team does not want to discuss token distribution that is all I am saying on this

This is the scummiest post I've seen from you so far, Thor. Time to reread your iso...

[Trojan Horse]

Reread of thor's ISO complete. Townread on thor. Looks like I misread thor's intentions yesterday; I was looking at that quote out of context, and thought that thor was trying to get us to ignore STD and focus on jason's lynch. In context, that doesn't look like what he meant. (I blame sleep deprivation for this one; I'd had a rough night.)

So now I'm back to jason.

Is that 5?

UNVOTE: jason

This is only an unvote to avoid a quicklynch. I'm still eyeing jason.

Why unvote? 7 votes are needed to lynch, L-2 doesn't seem that risky to me (even Boon can't lol-hammer by himself). At some point we do need a lynch, and preferably with a claim first. I'd rather we don't wait a week until deadline for that to happen.

I've seen some crazy things happen at L-2. I don't want to risk a lynch without a claim. Call me overly cautious, if you want.

[Trojan Horse]

Good luck with that

here's my readslist

god S tier scum:
Save The Dragons [Sickeningly Sweet]

scum:
Thor665 [Gestalt]
Trojan Horse [The Captains]

unknown/want to think more about currently:
Deltawave [TBD]
Boonskiies [TEAM WITH NO NAME]
jasonT1981 [The Kliq]
Malakittens [The Unviggable Vegetables]

town:
Fenchurch [God Save the Black Goo]
Pieguyn [Indecisive]
sthar8 [Marshmallow Pillow Fort]
Egg [Peruvian Flute Band]
Micc [The Athenians]
SleepyKrew [The Cockettes]

Emphasis mine. Obviously a bad joke, and not a scumslip, right?

Right?

[Trojan Horse]

Emphasis mine. Obviously a bad joke, and not a scumslip, right?

Right?

Are you for serious?

Not especially, but I'm sure I would've been lynched on the spot if I had done that...

this is actually far too many townreads...

Are you for serious?

I'm with STD on this one.

[Trojan Horse]

What do people think about my phat case on STD?

I've been meaning to take another look at your discussions with STD. (Sorry I haven't done that yet.) When you originally had that argument with STD, my thought was "this is a town on town spat, mafia must really be enjoying this, bleh". But I want to take a closer look.

Doing that now.

[Trojan Horse]

What do people think about my phat case on STD?

Your "phat" case is pretty "thin". I'm not buying it.

VOTE: Delta

Here's the long list of posts where he basically does nothing.

Spoiler:

i'll reck u m8 i sware on me mum

It really makes me want to declare jihad on STD.

I don't see STD trying to justify what he is doing. I see STD trying to convince the rest of the group that you are scum.

I don't think you have legitimate reads. I think you're making it up.

No explanation.

Alright, fine. Let me hit you in the balls with logic so hard you'll be picking fragments of your own testicles out of your teeth for weeks. Thor is supposedly your top scumread but you've done nothing but hedge on him so far (and complain about his attitude.) Your read came totally out of your ass, which is good because now there's more room in there for my foot.

This is so much bullshit.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: STD

No explanation

Call it crappy but I'm the one slapping you in the face with my monkey tail, if you get my drift. You are making up reads and then trying to come up with these lame justifications for them. I've read everything you've posted.

Says he's read my post, has yet to really respond to anything I've said. Especially the parts where I point out he's mistaken!

A couple years back I dropped this massive deuce. I even took a picture of it, and I'll post it if you want. But yeah I bring this up because it reminds me of your post. I'm going to deal with this after a good night's sleep. I'll be dreaming of you.

When you wake up tomorrow and start trying to play the game feel free to change my mind.

This response isn't from town. Normally when I say things like "I'm going to punch you in the nuts" or "I'm going to behead you like I was Mohammed" or something like that, town gets pissed and may even OMGUS me. That's fine and frankly I expect it, but this post here is different. You're trying to make it sound like your vote has nothing to do with my case against you but rather because I've "basically done nothing."

Your post here has a level of mindfulness and calculation that you would expect from scum. Scum want to look justified, like they have a reason for everything, when in reality town tends to be less focused on that kind of self-preservation tactic. Or in other words, you came up with this "delta has done nothing" reasoning even though your post & vote is clearly a kneejerk, because you feel that as scum you have to present a pristine foundation for everything you do. A compulsive need to put together a rational explanation for everything (including OMGUS) is the kind of thing a guilty person does.

I am hereby issuing a fatwa against you STD. Who will be my mujahideen?

I don't see STD trying to justify his actions. I see STD trying to convince the rest of the group that you are scum. (And doing a good job of it, to be honest...)

Forget it, Deltawave. I think STD is town.

[Trojan Horse]

Agh, pie...I really don't want to read your posts...I'll put some time away tomorrow to read the last page.

:>

2 down, 10 to go

If this is a count of "people swayed to join pie on the Thor bandwagon", it may be 3 down, 9 to go soon. My teammates are leaning scum on Thor.

Another reread coming...

[Trojan Horse]

Let's try this:

Thor, let's say Jason got mod-confirmed as town, for some reason. Who would be your next scum candidate, and why?

[Trojan Horse]

If you don't have scumreads, do you have townreads? Do you have reads?

Nope! I'm feeling pretty mentally checked out. I intend to do a nice thorough reread eventuality, but I don't know if that will happen D1. Have I mentioned how much I hate day ones?

I think I'm with you on day ones, SK.

Current reads (more gut than anything else):

Leaning town: pie, Fen, STD, Egg

Null: SK, sthar, Mala, Micc

Leaning scum: Jason, Boon, Thor (my teammates have pushed me in that direction), Delta (I think Delta went overboard in his argument with STD; he may have been provoking STD just to distract the town)

Let's see where this takes us. VOTE: DeltaWave

[Trojan Horse]

Because there hasn't been a lot of pushing on DeltaWave lately. There's enough on Jason and Thor that I can try to make an evaluation of them. But it looks like Delta has slipped back into lurker mode. He needs some pressure.

[Trojan Horse]

Also, I've spent the afternoon going back and forth between Jason's iso and Thor's iso, trying to decide which one is likelier to be scum. I'm tired of agonizing over it. I figured that, if I'm having this much trouble, perhaps the best move is to go for a third option.

Yes SK, pushing for a new bandwagon will probably prolong day 1. But if that's what it takes to find scum, so be it.

[Trojan Horse]

Not especially, but I'm sure I would've been lynched on the spot if I had done that...

You...weren't...just posting that to try and get a flash wagon going on BS, were you?

On Boon? This quote was referring to a post where STD listed his reads; it had nothing to do with Boon. And no, I wasn't trying to get a flash wagon going on anyone.

Note to all: starting tonight, I will be sleeping with a CPAP machine. Or rather, I will be TRYING to sleep with a CPAP machine; as for whether any sleep will actually come, that remains to be seen. So if you guys want to interrogate me, please do so today; I'll probably be pretty incoherent starting tomorrow.

[Trojan Horse]

Okay, I think my thoughts are a little more organized now.

I've been wondering if Delta provoked an argument with STD as a scummove, to distract the town. But if that's the case, and it wasn't just Delta being Delta, then why would he feel a need to do that? Jason was the only viable wagon at the time. So Delta's actions make no sense as a scummove, unless Jason is also scum.

Looks like my scumread on Delta depends on my scumread on Jason. So there's really no reason for me to vote for Delta right now.

UNVOTE: DeltaWave

Okay, I'm back in the Jason camp.

[Trojan Horse]

Only 3 on jason? Oh, Micc unvoted jason. Missed that.

VOTE: jason

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan, I meant "bullshit" when I said BS, not Boon.

I am such an idiot...

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan, if Jason were to flip town, how would that affect your Boon and Thor reads? Is Delta your strongest scum read (at the time of your vote) or are you pursuing that vote because he is a new scum read?

Probably the Boon read would stay the same, and the Thor read would get stronger.

I don't know if Delta was my strongest scum read when I cast my vote. Too close to call. I voted for Delta because I had spent so much time reading Jason's and Thor's isos, and I was tired of trying to decide between them. I thought that, if I can't decide between choice A and choice B, maybe I should pick a choice C instead. (Hey, it helped me organize my thoughts. So I guess it was a good move.)

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan, I fucked up. I meant if Jason flipped scum.

That would move both Boon and Thor closer to the town side. But I'd still have my doubts; jason is quite capable of bussing his buddies.

[Trojan Horse]

I really don't feel like reading through all of these wallposts again, looking for something that makes Jason clearly scummier than Thor, or vice versa. I'm willing to lynch either one of them at this point. (My team still wants me to switch to Thor; I'm willing to do that if necessary.)

Horrible vote on fenchurch, though.

[Trojan Horse]

Mala: of all the people you could've accused of playing a "safe game" by voting jason, I'm surprised you picked fenchurch; I'd say her reads have been reasonable so far, and I DO think she has been transparent with the reasons for those reads. To be honest, I would've been less bothered if you had voted for ME at this point.

Not that I want you to do that, just saying...

[Trojan Horse]

I might outsource my thor read.

And then him saying he might be willing to comprise on this thor read felt more fence-sitty than anything IMO.

Reasonable thought, but I'm going to wait for sthar to explain his Thor vote before I pass judgment.

[Trojan Horse]

Not buying it, Jason. Hammer time...

[Trojan Horse]

I am a town bodyguard.

shit, I didn't even see this.

WE DO NOT LYNCH JASON TODAY.

his role is a death sentence if scum. if jason happens to be alive on D4, then we can reconsider it, but this is one of those roles that naturally works itself out either way.

(also I really wish people wouldn't use bodyguards in games because it's a shit role)

I know we're not supposed to outguess the mod, but if bodyguard is such a bad role, do you really think it would've been used in Team Mafia? I doubt it. Jason's claim looks like an attempt to claim a power role that won't be counterclaimed.

My knowledge of current site meta is pretty much nonexistent (having not played for three years), so let me ask the group: is it common these days to use bodyguard in normal games? I'm guessing the answer is no...

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan - What are Tammys thoughts. Over a week after being asked about Tammy's read on me, you still have stalled on it.

No further word from Tammy yet. She is getting ready to defend her dissertation; given that, I'm surprised she has enough time left for her own game, let alone the rest of the games.

After your claim, I don't need a read from Tammy. I'm ready to lynch you now.

[Trojan Horse]

I know we're not supposed to outguess the mod, but if bodyguard is such a bad role, do you really think it would've been used in Team Mafia? I doubt it.

The rest of your post is fine, (and I cannot speak to the popularity of the bodyguard role; I have no idea)

But this line looks like the purpose of this is to discredit jason's claim based on the fact that pie's opinion is that bodyguards are bad and therefore mods wouldn't include it.

My primary reasons why I don't believe jason's claim (besides his general scuminess) are that the claim is not confirmable, and the claim is not likely to be counterclaimed, hence it's a safe claim. As for mods not including it; that was another reason, but a less important one.

Actually, Tammy has just chimed in and pointed out previous normals she played in that had bodyguards. So I guess that part of my argument doesn't hold water. Fair enough. (Like I said, my ignorance of site meta is a disadvantage here.)

Tammy also thinks that Jason is town. Meh.

While I'm looking over this last page or two, one question: Thor, what happens if you hide behind scum? I know what the answer is for a "standard" hider; I just want to make sure.

[Trojan Horse]

Bodyguard is a harder fakeclaim to maintain as there are likely to be points in the game where he'd be expected to die. Whereas CES thinks hider is a 'fashionable fake claim' for scum, in part because it's not hard to justify your continued survival as one.

Strange. I would've thought a hider claim would be harder to maintain, because as long as the claimed-hider-scum is alive, he has to act as a cop of sorts.

[Trojan Horse]

VOTE: Trojan
Words later.

Not too much later, I hope. Monday is my long work day, and Tuesday is the deadline. (I really doubt we're going to get an extension.)

[Trojan Horse]

This is probably my last post for 12-13 hours. I'll try to make good use of it.

SK, no wall posts, please. I won't have time to respond to everything. Also: Tammy says she wants a chance to give one final set of reads, if it looks like I'm going to be lynched. So don't put the hammer on me yet.

so

quick search through all mini games Nexus modded shows he's never used a hider before (unless I'm just blatantly missing it). if he put one here, it's the first time he's done it. I don't know how unreasonable this is given he's also used stuff like super-saint, global-roleblocking IC, and siblings, though.

Interesting. Not something we can rely on, but this does mean that my reasons for disbelieving jason's claim now apply more strongly to Thor's claim. Hmm.

UNVOTE: jason
VOTE: Thor

Next: the idea of having Thor hide behind jason is an interesting one. Might be a good idea. I'll think about it. But I won't support it until Thor confirms that he will die if he hides behind scum. I don't want him to have a chance to back-pedal; he needs to confirm it now.

I think that if Thor is scum scum are all just going to bloc vote whatever easy wagon(s) comes up and we'll be stuck in the ass with not enough time to get a correct lynch. see: the large number of people who have been sitting on their ass wrt votes instead of trying to put effort into making someone a viable lynch target.

Or perhaps scum will just sit back and hope for a no-lynch.

[Trojan Horse]

So Thor is VLA, and he won't be able to respond to my question. Bleh.

A thought I had today: if Jason is scum and Thor is town, Jason's push to lynch me makes no sense. Jason would know that his goose is cooked if Thor survives the day, so he'd push to lynch Thor. (And he wouldn't look scummy for doing so; as has been pointed out, Thor has made a safe claim that he can get away with.) So either Jason is town, or... oh, this BETTER not be the truth... Jason and Thor are BOTH scum. So I'm certainly not going to push against Jason now.

Or perhaps scum will just sit back and hope for a no-lynch.

Does a no lynch benefit scum though? In my experience, it benefits town more.

No. Imagine that there are two top lynch candidates, and one of them really is scum. If the town guesses wrong, bad for them, but they can then lynch the correct candidate the next day. But if there's a no-lynch, then the scum gets a free kill, and the town still doesn't know who to lynch. I'd say scum benefit from no lynch, most of the time.

[Trojan Horse]

No error, VysePresident has replaced Micc.

I think a deadline extension would be good, under the circumstances... but since Nexus said "no deadline extension" AFTER VysePresident replaced in, I don't think we're getting an extension.

[Trojan Horse]

My team is tossing me a ton of reads. Hang on...

[Trojan Horse]

Oversoul doesn't like Thor's claim; he doesn't think Nexus would put both a hider and a bodyguard in the same game, due to problems with role resolution.

Tammy thinks Thor is making up reads from his teammates; he put me down as a Nacho scumread here:

Thor, I know you said it's a mild read, but can you explain why you lean scum on Trojan?

Mostly Nacho and Ffrey. Llamarble likes the slot and thinks he's team building...(?) but the other two find him a little shallow and empty. I agree with their takes. None of the reads are particularly strong but he feels opportunistic in a way to me, like he's drifting with the wind rather than planting and saying stuff - which I find extra strange in this format because, functionally, he should have lots of extra opinions being tossed at him. Makes it feel strategic.

but not here:

Hell, and the only other wagon of any note is *also* a Nacho town read.
Let's see; if I went off just Nachos's reads I'd be lynching sthar, Fenchurch, Micc, and maybe Delta.
Two of those are amongst my top town reads.

Also, Tammy wants jason to protect either pie or fen tonight. Two solid townreads from her (I agree with both). She also has townreads on jason, STD, and Boon (I'm iffy on Boon).

More coming...

[Trojan Horse]

The only other possible lynch is Trojan Horse which I'm kinda on a null because I haven't really remembered a lot of his posts and I'm surprised Tammy hasn't been more engaging with me about my alignment, which I find as odd. I'm used to Tammy and I going head to head in games so her not trying to sort me is meh =\

She's trying to sort you. She doesn't like you attacking fenchurch for using wicked meta on you, when you are apparently doing the same thing to her. She's having a hard time reading you.

Please note that I haven't felt the need to reveal every read that my teammates have given me during the game. I've read them all and taken them into consideration, but I've only revealed what I felt I needed to reveal. If there's anything you want me to talk about, ask me.

[Trojan Horse]

Also Quil said the way Trojan went about his early interactions with me (about me not RVSing) reminded him of scum Trojan, and Reck was on board with that.

So, you're going to use meta from a game I played three years ago to conclude that I am scum?

You are right about one thing though. That game was on my mind at the start of this one. That game taught me a lesson: townies scumhunt right off the bat. I held back from scumhunting, and thus I was caught as scum.

That first post from you made me think you were doing the same thing I did in that game.

[Trojan Horse]

Oh piguy I wasn't saying "fuck that Nacho stuff it sucks", I was saying "fuck, I forgot about that Nacho read stuff while I was making my panicky shitcase on Trojan".
And right now my brain can seriously not tell me whether that inconsistency is worth a vote, or if it was possibly just a mistake by a town Thor. It also cannot tell me how I should feel about Trojan not presenting his finding in anything remotely close to how I'd expect a townie in his position to present it.

I'm just relaying what my teammates have found. I didn't catch it when it happened.

I'm getting mixed signals from my team as to whether SK is scummy or not. SK, Tammy wants you to help lynch real scum, and she says that... Waffles isn't happy right now? She says you'd know what that means.

[Trojan Horse]

I need to get to bed soon, and I'm not going to let this game stand in the way of that. Last chance for questions before I turn in.

[Trojan Horse]

I'm just relaying what my teammates have found. I didn't catch it when it happened.

but
If it looks like you're about to be a compromise deadline lynch
And one of your teammates points out this glaring inconsistency on another potential lynchee
Why wouldn't you throw your whole weight behind it? Why would you just casually throw it in with a weak reason and something unrelated instead of PROCLAIMING IT to the HIGH HEAVENS?

Uh... it was just another piece of the case against Thor. I didn't think it was worth THAT much of an emotional response.

Just in case I get lynched while I'm asleep, here's a summary of my teammate's scumreads:

Tammy's scumreads: thor, deltawave, egg, micc/vp. Mala and sthar are lesser reads.

Oversoul's scumreads: thor, deltawave, boon, micc/vp.

That's it. Off to bed.

[Trojan Horse]

I don't see my name in there. I thought you were getting mixed signals on me?

They didn't like your recent posts, but overall, they are leaning town on you.

Okay. NOW I'm gone. See you tomorrow.

[Trojan Horse]

I'm here. Looks like all of my team's top scumreads have piled onto me, except for the absent Thor. Not surprised.

Delta: it's 5-5 now. Thor and I are both at L-2. If that "L-1" was an attempt to gauge people's reactions... sorry to spoil the game, but we don't have time for games now.

Thor is obviously going to vote for me if he is available, so that leaves Fen and Mala. Any questions you want to ask? I'm around until deadline.

[Trojan Horse]

SK: since my team is convinced that Thor is scum, they saw your recent push against me as attempt to save a scumbuddy. But you've now voted Thor, so that shoots down that idea.

[Trojan Horse]

I would join a Boon wagon as a last resort, but I don't think it's going to happen. Besides, Thor is much likelier to be scum than Boon. A hider and a bodyguard in the same game? I just don't see it.

[Trojan Horse]

Fen: I think you can guess what my claim would be. I'm an inch away from being lynched, and deadline is approaching. If I was a power role, I wouldn't keep it hidden THIS long.

Vanilla townie here, obv.

Fen, one thing I ask: don't assume that you have to vote for me because I'm at L-1 and Thor is at L-2. There's still time for someone to change their mind.

[Trojan Horse]

Fen: if we lynch Thor and he's town, that pretty much confirms that Jason is town. If Jason was scum and Thor was town, Jason would be pushing to lynch Thor right now.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan, why does your team think we have four scum in a 13p game?

They gave me their lists of top scumreads. What's wrong with having four scumreads when there are only three scum?

If you plan on voting Thor, you still need one vote in addition to yours

Mala and Delta are around. Either one could change their mind.

[Trojan Horse]

Less than 1 hour left.

[Trojan Horse]

Forget the flash-lynch. There's not enough people around to do it, anyway.

[Trojan Horse]

Six votes for Thor, six votes for me, and the 13th voter is... Thor.



A certain Charlie Brown special comes to mind right now...

[Trojan Horse]

A thought I had today: if Jason is scum and Thor is town, Jason's push to lynch me makes no sense. Jason would know that his goose is cooked if Thor survives the day, so he'd push to lynch Thor. (And he wouldn't look scummy for doing so; as has been pointed out, Thor has made a safe claim that he can get away with.) So either Jason is town, or... oh, this BETTER not be the truth... Jason and Thor are BOTH scum. So I'm certainly not going to push against Jason now

Not if scum has a roleblocker and Jason wants to push "don't lynch PR claims" because he claimed bodyguard.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the roleblocker wouldn't help here. Hider is immune to blocks, but dies if he hides with scum.

Or is that not how hiders normally work?

[Trojan Horse]

Because they're hiding, so no actions affect them.

Looking it up now...

[Trojan Horse]

So if Thor is alive tomorrow, Jason is confirmed as either:
A) town bodyguard or
B) Scum with Thor

Why is Thor up for a lynch again?

Because he made a claim that scum would likely make: not likely to be counterclaimed, with a chance of being able to masquerade as town for a while.

Plus pie's early case against Thor, which I don't have time to type out...

[Trojan Horse]

No lynch might actually be less disastarous than lynching a claimed hider...

No. We NEED to lynch someone.

[Trojan Horse]

It's a good fakeclaim to make BECAUSE lynching it is such horrible play. We can deal with it later. Hell, even Day 2 if we lynch him and he flips scum, Jason is confirmed as his buddy.

No, that DOESN'T confirm Jason as his buddy.

[Trojan Horse]

We could have Thor scum and Jason town. I doubt we can have Jason scum and Thor town.

[Trojan Horse]

You had it backwards.

[Trojan Horse]

No Egg. YOU can switch to Thor. It's up to YOU or we're no lynching.

[Trojan Horse]

That was quite a game of chicken. Wow.

[Trojan Horse]

It's good to be alive.

Given all that craziness at the end of the day, I really doubt scum would've double-bussed their buddy Thor. I'm guessing at least one scum hopped onto my wagon during the final push. I've been going back and forth in my mind between VysePresident and Mala; since my teammates are more suspicious of VysePresident...

VOTE: VysePresident

Jason, who did you protect last night?

[Trojan Horse]

PEDIT: Why are they suspicious of Vyse?

I'll have to be brief for now; I'm about to walk out the door. Oversoul didn't like Micc's lurking, and Tammy didn't like VysePresident's entrance and quickvote on me. VysePresident asked us who to vote for and just went with it; he could've conferred with his teammates at least.

[Trojan Horse]

Jason: I kinda figured that you protected pie. Reasonable choice.

Thor665 (7 - LYNCH)- sthar8, pieguyn, Trojan Horse, Save The Dragons, SleepyKrew, Fenchurch, Egg,

it would not surprise me if everyone on here was town. I'm almost positive scum tried to save Thor at the end of the day here. mastin has a different opinion from me on this.

part of me thinks if we just lynched all the people off the wagon save jason we'd win the game immediately. I doubt it was a coincidence that Boon was here and FAILED to move his vote despite him having no fucking reason for actually being on TH, nor that we had a bunch of people conveniently vote TH at the end for what, IMO, were weak reasons or "don't want to lynch a PR". but eh

pie, I too would not be surprised if that wagon was all town. I'm certainly leaning town on all of them, some more strongly than others. But I need to consider the possibility of a bus here.

I've had strong town reads on pie and STD for some time now, and Fen is dead. Of sthar, SK, and Egg, which of those votes is most likely a bus? You know what? I think I'd say Egg. Here's why:

Unvote, Vote Boon

We need a flashwagon. Everyone not voting needs to change this immediately. If people don't like Boon for today, I'll compromise but this is where I want us to lynch.

This post is not a problem. Egg's next post:

Unvote, Vote Trojan

Before he switched, I had two votes; this vote made it three. Still not a problem; he was trying to find a flashwagon. However, the very next post was...

UNVOTE: std
VOTE: boon

Why is this not happening egg?

...which put Boon at 2. At this point, Egg could vote for either Boon or me; both wagons would've been equally viable. But he stayed on me; he had a chance to switch before I got vote #4, but he didn't.

Egg had already said that he favored Boon for a flashlynch...

Who would be your next choice for lynch?

Boon

... and I don't see anything that suggests he changed his mind, and saw me as scummier than Boon. Maybe Egg just wanted to lynch anyone other than Thor, and only switched to Thor to avoid looking suspicious.

Man. I started typing this post leaning town on Egg, and now I'm not so sure. Time to study Egg's ISO further...

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan:

Delta voting Boon put boon at 1 since Egg just unvoted Boon in his previous post...the vote count is literally the post before Egg's.

Whoops! You're right. I need to read these things more carefully.

Okay. So much for my argument against Egg. My top scum candidates are Vyse and Mala. Vyse, where are you?

[Trojan Horse]

Boon is way too meta-aware for my liking. I still consider him a scumspect.

I'm going to get around to some VCA at some point.

Is Boon your top suspect, or is there someone else that you think is scummier?

[Trojan Horse]

Oh, I should point out that Oversoul really likes pie's case against Mala. I might join the bandwagon, but I want to stick with Vyse for now. He really needs to be pressured.

[Trojan Horse]

Not sure I like Egg and Trojan votes on the Vyse wagon, it seems very easy votes with little actually being brought forth about why vyse is scum. Seems more circumstantial lynch the spot that was inactive most of D1 rather than an actual case made on Vyse.

In fact, both have voted, and in their many posts after voting have not really even mentioned Vyse too much that I can see afterwards.

It just feels like an easy jump, kinda like how Trojan stayed on my wagon most of D1 thinking it was an easy lynch.

Sadly, there's not much for me to say about Vyse at the moment, since there's not much that Vyse has said so far. And that's the problem. The main thing we have seen Vyse do so far is jump on my bandwagon, when the only other viable bandwagon was scum. So he seems like the best lynch candidate at the moment. Until Vyse actually starts participating, and gives us some of his town/scum reads (perhaps with the assistance of his team), I see no reason to change my vote.

vote: Delta

Thought I had done that in my post #901 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6771517

Let me look at that 901.

Marquis made a good point that Delta and SK yesterday (game day) seemed to show little to 0 concern coming up to deadline, both were active but didn't seem overly invested in a lynch. Delta especially was just throwing his vote anywhere (in the last 24 hours or so had his vote on Trojan, STD and Boon. Didn't seem to care who was lynched as long as a lynch was made.

I get he didn't want to lynch a PR.. I get that, I was the same on Thor. There just seemed very little urgency with Delta in the run up to the lynch.

SK gave me a pretty good interrogation at the end of day 1. He definitely looked concerned to me. You have a stronger case concerning Delta, but even then, I'm not convinced. Delta had already talked about his suspicion on STD and Boon. The only "gotta lynch someone" vote he cast was for me, and by that point, it was obvious that either Thor or I would be lynched.

[Trojan Horse]

That's L-2 on Mala. Let's not make it L-1 right now; don't want to risk a quicklynch before a claim.

Vyse really needs to get in here and give us his reads. Vyse, stop putting it off.

Mala, I'm taking a good hard look at you right now. One thing that bothers me: why are you so insistent that pie get reads on you from her teammates? I understand you saying that pie is reading you wrong. (Of course you're going to say that, since pie has a scumread on you.) But why are you relying on her teammates to change her mind? Are you sure they are going to read you differently? In any case, pie's teammates aren't playing this game. If you want to change pie's mind, you should be trying to do that yourself.

Also:

You only had to basically sort me one game in all of the games we really ever played together, maybe two if you want to count the Tammy-game. So yes I'm discrediting your read on me because YOUR READ on me is wrong here. You have been wrong in the past.

So, you're saying that pie can't get an accurate read on you because she misread you in ONE game? First of all, that's a really small sample size. Second of all, that game has nothing to do with this one. If pie has good reasons for you being scum (and I think she does), you can't discredit them by pointing to another game where she got it wrong.

I want to say

FoS: Mala

, but I don't know if people still use the term "FoS" around here. I'm showing my age, aren't I?

[Trojan Horse]

I hope everyone realizes that there's like no fucking resistance to my wagon at all. If I put this FoS as a vote I'd be at L-1, with Jason, Vyse & Delta not giving a stance on how they feel. The only people really opposing my lynch right now is Boons and to an extent Sthar. So either there's major fucking bussing going on right now or this is just a bullshit fucking wagon that's on town.

The fact that no one is seeing this other than Boon/Sthar and not taking it into consideration is blowin' my fucking mind. In fact this feels exactly like how my lynch ended up in my last Bork game with Tammy. Tammy and I went head to head and I ended up being lynched when I had the majority of the fucking scum team pegged besides maybe one player.

I'm considering it. You could be scum without any bussing going on. Maybe Vyse is your scummate. I could definitely see that.

he pushed a fucking person who was V/LA and couldn't claim if the flashlynch/flashwagon was successful. I don't see the reason why you would derail another wagon just to push something else who couldn't be around for deadline, who couldn't claim, who couldn't defend themselves, who couldn't give their last reads. it felt like an unnecessary last minute push that was derailing yet again another lynch.

I mean if DW flips scum; I'd probably go after TH for connection with this read because it makes sense in my head. For trying to derail a lynch on someone who I undoubtedly know is likely town.

I'm trying to decipher that final comment. I'm assuming you meant "For trying to derail a lynch in order to lynch someone who I undoubtedly know is likely town." In other words, since Delta was pushing for a Boon lynch when I was in danger, if Delta flips scum, you'll come after me next.

Just making sure I understand you correctly. I think you misspoke there.

[Trojan Horse]

So yes I would have thought you would be a great scum partner to DW if DW is to flip scum.

Eh. Fair enough.

I think I'm running out of questions to ask Mala. Vyse is the one I really want to interrogate.

[Trojan Horse]

Well, you guys are making me feel less guilty about only being able to post once per day (mostly due to work). At least I'm not alone.

Looking back over today's events, it looks like I must have been asleep at the start of the day. Boon was attacked by STD and SK for not interacting with Thor, and apparently, I didn't pay any attention to that. (And this is something I really should have paid attention to; apparently, Boon didn't mention Thor

at all

during Day 1.)

Maybe I've just gotten used to Boon's self-meta?

Time for me to take another look at Boon.

[Trojan Horse]

what do you think of 1164?

*IF* Mala is scum here, this doesn't look like something someone says about a partner I think. it looks more like scum going out of their way to put effort into a town read on a town player in order to buddy/manipulate them than scum inventing reasons to town read a partner.

I think this was directed at me. The post in question:

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

I can finally flesh out my townread more on Boons because the game I was carefully watching just ended.

So the reason why I was against the push in Jason's D1 play and why my townread on Boons strengthened was due to this game. If you read his ISO he was attacked early D1 because of his play. Lurking, not contributing much etc and then later on used for mislynch bait. His reactions that game reminded me of how he reacted here.

Yeah, I agree. That doesn't look like a scum-defending-scum post.

[Trojan Horse]

I'm just fucking done at this point. Apparently I can't be town that's putting effort into trying to find townreads. I guess that is NOT an option.

Whatever.

When I'm lynched and I flip town push the fuck out of SK.

Was this directed at me? I didn't say you couldn't be town. I said I didn't think you and Boon were both scum.

[Trojan Horse]

Mala: OK.

Vyse, I want to focus on just one part of your latest post.

Nulls of varying flavors include: Delta, TH(+), SK(?), Mala(-)

Delta is just a void for me. I haven't seriously looked at him. TH gets points for being the counterwagon to Thor, but that's not an actual read.

SK is just empty -- They're blatantly coasting, and it's annoying. I'm not impressed.

Take a look at SK's interrogation of me at the end of day 1, starting from #787. Tell me if that changes your read on SK.

[Trojan Horse]

Tammy is reading town on Mala. Tammy is contradicting my reads again. So what else is new. Given what happened day 1 with Thor, I wouldn't be surprised if she is right and I am wrong.

Tammy also told me that she is reading town on Boon. But she told me that before Boon made his last few posts. In particular, Tammy hadn't yet seen this...

@Pie - people who have played with ScumMala and TownMala a lot more, like Ika, is not a good enough case? You are ignoring people who have more experience with her. How is that not being "conf biased"?

Are people just not allowed to develop their own reads anymore? This is the exact same bad argument that Mala is presenting: you don't have enough experience reading me, therefore your read is wrong. that's a fallacy.

This is what I'm implying. There is no reason to vote for Mala.

...which I think is a ridiculous post. I don't know yet if this will change Tammy's mind or not.

Mala, let me echo SK here:

Also, have you explained these connections that rely on a DW flip?
(I have not been following along very closely!)

I too want you to explain these connections. These must be some strong connections, if they make you NOT want to lynch a top scumread.

[Trojan Horse]

TH, why's Tammy townreading Mala?

She didn't give me any specifics. She says she's going to do some more detailed reading this weekend.

I'll ask.

[Trojan Horse]

TH, why's Tammy townreading Mala?

Okay, Tammy says she thinks Mala is town based on this post...

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

I can finally flesh out my townread more on Boons because the game I was carefully watching just ended.

So the reason why I was against the push in Jason's D1 play and why my townread on Boons strengthened was due to this game. If you read his ISO he was attacked early D1 because of his play. Lurking, not contributing much etc and then later on used for mislynch bait. His reactions that game reminded me of how he reacted here.

... and based on Mala's frustration in general. But again, she says she hasn't been reading this game as closely as she would like.

Trojan, you FoS'd Mala after Oversoul said she was scum. Now Tammy thinks Mala is town. Are you personally scum reading Mala? Do you trust your read more than Tammy's? What is your read on Delta, who you don't seem to have commented on today? Which of the two would you rather lynch?

Personally, I'm leaning scum on Mala. I would normally give top priority to my own reads, but the events of day 1 have shaken my confidence. (I was reading Thor as town at first. Tammy and Oversoul weren't fooled.) I have a null read on Delta. I have to consider him a suspect, since he jumped onto my bandwagon at the end of day 1. But his actions during day 1 seemed genuine. I would rather lynch Mala than Delta right now.

Sthar, I feel like you decided to scum read me as soon as I questioned you at the beginning of day 1 and everything you see, you try to make fit that mold.

viable wagons

I'd like to know how you define this. I have one vote (yours) and we are five days from deadline. If mala and Delta both happen to claim power roles, we'll be in the same spot as yesterday where there is no other lynch option and the chances of that working out nicely on back to back days are pretty low. Do you honestly believe you can sway five people in five days?

He might be able to sway me. You're #3 on my list right now, after Vyse and Mala.

[Trojan Horse]

I thought you didn't want to lynch a D1 PR

That's what I was about to say.

[Trojan Horse]

What is the claimed inconsistency? I'm not getting it.

Not an inconsistency per se, but still, not what I would've expected you to say if you were town.

Some of your key posts from earlier:

I talked it over with my team and there's a strong preference for a sthar8 lynch, even though this guy has been flying largely under my radar. They do seem supportive of Trojan as a next-best-lynch. I've been on the fence about Trojan for a while, but I'll give my team some credit on this one. Plus, I'm not about to lynch a D1 PR claim.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: Trojan

L-1

Horrible, horrible idea to lynch a PR claim D1. There is no excuse for this wagon.

Delta, can you link to a previous example of you refusing to lynch a D1 PR claim (or a discussion in which you state that you would refuse to lynch a D1 PR claim)?

Apparently the last game I played was Event Card Mafia in April 2014, but I got replaced out due to inactivity. Before that, my last game was Jason's British Royal Family Kingmaker in Feb of 2013. So, in the past two years I've played two games not counting my current games. I really don't remember if I have any examples of that.

Thor's lynch was ultimately good but I still stand by my principle that I won't lynch a D1 PR claim (unless it is directly counterclaimed.)

None of the above bother me, but now all of a sudden, your defense is this:

I have a null read on Delta. I have to consider him a suspect, since he jumped onto my bandwagon at the end of day 1.

Well that's thanks to Greyice, who also told me that Thor was town. Thanks GreyIce.

1. You didn't mention this before. You talked about your teammates supporting my lynch as a consolation lynch, but you didn't say any of your teammates were reading Thor as town.

2. I wouldn't have been bothered if you had said "Oh, I forgot to mention, GreyICE told me that Thor was town." This new post makes it sound like GreyICE's read was your

primary

reason for not voting for Thor. That's not what you said before.

3. I'm surprised that you felt a need to defend yourself at all. My post was not attacking you. I was saying I didn't want to lynch you, because you felt more town to me than the other people on my wagon.

This looks like a case of scum making a new story because he forgot he already made a story.

UNVOTE: Vyse

I'm pondering a Delta vote now...

[Trojan Horse]

Mala, let me echo SK here:

Also, have you explained these connections that rely on a DW flip?
(I have not been following along very closely!)

I too want you to explain these connections. These must be some strong connections, if they make you NOT want to lynch a top scumread.

Never mind. I found them. Apparently, reading helps.

If Delta flips scum:

I mean if DW flips scum; I'd probably go after TH for connection with this read because it makes sense in my head. For trying to derail a lynch on someone who I undoubtedly know is likely town.

If Delta flips town:

I'd probably reevaluate a shitton of my reads. There's been at least three or four games where I strongly townread scum and strongly scumread town.

I know at least these reads would either change/stay the same:

My TH read wouldn't flip to scum if you flipped town. TH would probably be high up on the town list close to almost confirm-town status.

I think my STD read would stay town because Iec had some strong D1 town-STD vibes.

I'd reevaluate my Boon read only because my paranoia would take place by then. I have strong townread players based on meta so I'd probably remove my main based meta read from Boon.

Egg would maybe be considered town.

[Trojan Horse]

Delta, have you figured out who your top scumread is yet?

[Trojan Horse]

I am still V/LA. My dad got rushed to hospital in an ambulance yesterday morning. He was released last night but we are keeping an eye on him so my attention to the game will be minimal for a few days.

I will be back properly after tomorrow. I have a funeral to attend in the afternoon, then the game should have my undivided attention again.

jason, I hope these two events are unrelated...

Still wavering between Delta and Mala. Long work day today, but I'll try to make a decision tonight.

[Trojan Horse]

Okay. Let's think about it this way. If I was scum, my scummate had been lynched day 1, and I was under pressure day 2, how would I react?

A lot more like Mala than like Delta, that's for sure.

Okay. Count me in the let's-lynch-Mala camp. But no vote yet, since that would put her at L-1. I want a claim.

[Trojan Horse]

I'm actually with Boon on this one. Was gonna post something similar myself, but decided it was pointless because

Jason was already obvtown with Thor's flip.

Huh? He's not obvtown at all. Jason is much higher on my town list than he was during day 1, but I'm still considering the possibility that he is scum.

Would scumJason and scumThor bus each other like they did during day 1? Sure they would. I respect Jason's scum game too much to ignore that possibility.

[Trojan Horse]

Wow. Lots of things happen while I'm at work, apparently.

I've caught up, and I'm assembling my thoughts. I don't believe Mala's claim, and I'm probably going to vote for her.

Details in a moment...

[Trojan Horse]

Roleblocker is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, provided that blocked X-Shot roles are not refunded

I still have the shot, which is why I was sure that I was rb'd and not SK being a BP.

...uh

VOTE: Mala

Ah. Good catch.

Okay, my thoughts:

1. If a town RBer did block Mala last night, thank you for not revealing yourself. Mala may be a scum power role, and she would love to know who blocked her.

2. You've all given good reasons for disbelieving Mala's claim: she wasn't likely to be scumblocked, she apparently wasn't suspicious of SK during day 1, etc. I'll add one more: if she is a limited-shot vig, I'm surprised she would use a shot during night 1, without a super-solid scumread. Better to save those precious shots for later.

3. I don't buy the "let's let Mala prove herself" argument. If she is a scum power role, the sooner we lynch her, the better. I could see her making this claim to try to buy some time, even if she knows her goose is cooked.

I'm trying to type and shave at the same time. Give me a moment here...

[Trojan Horse]

Mala is at L-1. Shall I hammer? I'm ready to.

[Trojan Horse]

Eh. No sense in dragging this out.

VOTE: Mala

[Trojan Horse]

I'm guessing we have a legit roleblocker. Or scum forgot to send in their action. lol

Or scum intentionally no-killed, to trick any town roleblockers into making a claim.

Am I too paranoid? Regardless, if we do have a roleblocker, I think they should remain silent for now.

so my guess is on Bins for the last scum, but I'm waiting for everyone to check in first

That's my guess too.

[Trojan Horse]

pie, while I understand you wanting to vent these frustrations, I fear you've just violated the "don't copy and paste from your PT" rule...

[Trojan Horse]

Okay.

I'm too paranoid, aren't I?

[Trojan Horse]

If there's a roleblocker, the odds of scum no killing are still pretty low, so I'm probably okay with them claiming at some point today.

I don't know if the odds are that low. Even if we assume scum wouldn't intentionally no-kill, there's always the chance that they forgot to submit a kill. Quite likely, if Bins is the last scum; she already told us how busy she was the last few days.

I just want to be useful before I get lynched.

Giving us some updated scumreads would help.

[Trojan Horse]

Wow.

STD, you didn't have to come forward like that; we were likely to lynch Bins anyway. But oh well. What's done is done.

I want to wait for Bins to give her reads, and also for Jason to claim his night 2 target. But after that, I think there's no point in dragging it out; we should just lynch Bins and be done with it.

[Trojan Horse]

i hope you guys actually look at my reads tho and i don't just get forgotten about :<

If I was going to ignore your reads, I'd be voting for you already.

[Trojan Horse]

Okay then.

VOTE: Bins

On the off-chance that she is town: Jason, protect STD tonight. STD, don't block Jason.

[Trojan Horse]

The opening post says that mafia has day talk. Mala ended up being a role cop. She was roleblocked night 1. She was aware of this. This totally could be a setup for a mislynch. Granted,

I did say I thought one of Delta/Vyse were scum

, but I did lean towards the Delta slot. My reads haven't necessarily been that great, as my teammates town read Mala, and she manipulated me further into town reading her by WKing me.

So, you already had

some

suspicion of Vyse, and now we have some further evidence (a roleblock) that points towards Bins being scum. Shouldn't that push Bins to the top of your list?

[Trojan Horse]

Also, I don't realize how I'm playing bad this game...besides my self-meta, I feel I'm playing pretty solid.

didn't vote Thor, didn't vote Mala, avoiding voting Bins

I'm going to go further than that, SK.

Didn't even mention Thor during day 1. Strongly defended Mala during day 2, and was strongly defended back. Trying to avoid lynching the scummiest player (Bins); maybe Boon is scum, and is trying to save a key mislynch for later.

Boon, if we're going to assume that Bins is town and the scum no-killed to trick us (I don't want to assume that), then I think the correct player to lynch is YOU.

[Trojan Horse]

Hello everyone. Another long day at work. The end of the semester is near, and I'm worn out.

Good to know that we've caught our last scum. We can put this game to rest; one less thing for me to worry about.

VOTE: jason

More-detailed rant coming later.

You are all terrible for having a gameday in which not every player got to post. That is how scum wins this game. Try to be less terrible.

I'll take this day as slowly as you want. As long as we lynch jason at the end of it.

[Trojan Horse]

we're having a disagreement on the last scum. I think Boon, mastin says SK. I don't really think jason is scum here, but I wanna reread/think about it more.

pie, show mastin this quote:

I'm an X-shot Vig. I tried shooting N1 on SK failed because I was RB'd.

I'm guessing that Mala really did target SK night 1; she targetted SK with her rolecop ability. No sense in her lying about her target; there could be a tracker who could catch her in that lie.

Even ignoring my certainty that jason is scum, I'm fairly sure SK is town.

[Trojan Horse]

Hmm. Looks like jason hasn't claimed his most recent night action.

UNVOTE: jason

Probably won't make any difference, but I'm willing to wait for him to do that.

[Trojan Horse]

I need to get to bed soon. Long story short: I can't believe that jasontown would fail to protect STD, even if he did suspect STD of being scum. It makes no sense.

[Trojan Horse]

Hmm. Looks like jason hasn't claimed his most recent night action.

UNVOTE: jason

Probably won't make any difference, but I'm willing to wait for him to do that.

Given your theories, why does this matter?

It probably doesn't matter. I think I know what he's going to claim, anyway. But we might as well make it official.

[Trojan Horse]

jasonT1981

- I'm sticking to this. jason is town. As scum, there was no reason for him to push off of my wagon. Crap move last night, but still...a town move nonetheless.

If we get down to the brim and into LyLo, sure, then this read should be flip flopped. The bodyguard will take care of itself if he actually is it.

Emphasis mine. Boon, I wish I could share your optimism. Jason now has a perfect alibi if he continues to survive night rounds; he can say that scum is leaving him alive because he is a scum suspect. Plus, with no other claimed power roles still alive, scum shooting jasontown isn't a priority.

I don't want to give jason a chance to work his scum-hypnosis on the group. He needs to go now.

As for saying who I protected - go fuck yourself. Not saying anything more, not going to give out any more information that can help scum work out who I may or may not protect in the night.

I admit, this surprises me. I thought you were going to say that you protected pie again. I guess your line is going to be that you protected someone that you think is a power role, and you don't want to say who that is. Fine, but I don't buy it.

Boon, you really think Day 1 came down to two scum wagons?

It kinda did. It was me mostly, then Thor.

Scumslip?

Trojan Horse

- fuckin' scum. Yeah, I was right from Day 1.

...

VOTE: Trojan

Honestly, I'm willing to go all-in on this one. I don't see myself ever changing my mind on jason, unless there's 100% proof (perhaps through night actions) that someone else is scum. If you guys don't want to lynch jason today, then you can lynch me and put me out of my misery.

Now to explain why I think jasontown would've protected STD no matter what. Hang on while I type this up...

[Trojan Horse]

Okay. Let's say jason is town, and he suspects STD of being scum. Failing to protect STD is still a dumb move, and I'm confident jasontown would not have done that.

Why? Let's say jason is right about STD being scum. What's the upside of protecting someone other than STD? The only potential upside is that he might protect the scum's kill-target; thus, he dies, and the kill-target lives. But how much can that help the town? If it's just a case of protecting a solid town-read (like pie), I don't see how it helps the town very much. If anything, that would probably HURT the town; jason is no longer alive to make his case against STD. Plus, jason's death is exactly what we would expect to happen if STD is town; thus, STD still looks town to us. Letting pie die would help make the case that STD is scum; we wouldn't expect pie to die if STD is town.

So, what's the benefit of jasontown not protecting STD if STD is scum? I see only one real benefit: there's a chance that jason will protect a power role from dying. And with no other claimed power roles, the chances of that are slim. So I see little upside here.

Now, what's the downside of not protecting STD if STD is town? There's an IMMENSE downside. The town loses a roleblocker, and there's a good chance we lynch jason for being derelict in his duties. Two power roles gone just like that, and scum - who seemed to be in a hopeless situation - suddenly has a decent chance to win.

Little to no upside if STD is scum; a huge downside if STD is town. If jason is town, I can't believe he wouldn't protect STD; if he suspected STD of being scum, he'd play it safe and STILL protect STD. He'd then try to lynch STD the next day. (That DOES have an upside if STD is scum; we then win the game.)

Now, this is completely ignoring the fact that jason suspecting STD is a bit hard to believe. (I think Egg covered that one well.) But even granting that he suspected STD, failing to protect STD still makes no sense. jason has to be scum.

[Trojan Horse]

pie, remember how stubborn you were in attacking mala during day 2? Now it's my turn to be stubborn.

[Trojan Horse]

plus *if* he is town here I find it unlikely he really gave a shit about who he targeted, given it appears he'd be under the impression he'd get blocked anyway

Setting aside the fact that STD was joking about blocking jason...

Let's say you're a power role, and you think you have a 90% chance of being blocked. Do you still choose your target carefully? Sure, because of that 10% chance that you are not blocked. jasontown would've cared about who he targeted, even if he thought he'd be blocked.

[Trojan Horse]

More being flustered and not reading. I read it as coming down to two wagons. Which I believe it did my wagon, and Thor.. the other two manifested and disappared.

I'll save you the trouble of double-checking my wagon. It definitely did NOT disappear; I came within an inch of being lynched.

[Trojan Horse]

2. this setup would be unbalanced as fuck if jason isn't town here. even discounting the fact that he didn't get CC'ed, 2-3 roles is standard in a mini normal. with jason town, we have

roleblocker + bodyguard + *unclaimed role*

with jason scum, we have

roleblocker + ???

it would be pretty much impossible to balance this at this point if jason isn't town here. there's basically no town power (I'm assuming that any relevant PR would have claimed by now, but no one has. thus I feel pretty confident there's only one unclaimed PR out there, *at most* - but even discounting this, it'd be difficult to balance this without jason as town) mastin agrees with me on this - she also says this AS A MINI NORMAL reviewer and points out that bodyguard is the go-to protective role in normal setups.

I agree with your concerns about setup balance, but who knows how many unclaimed power roles there are right now? Who says there's only one? I wouldn't be surprised if there are still two unclaimed roles.

also, I want

TROJAN HORSE

to ask Tammy if she thinks jason's recent posting is anything but town. and then ask her why if she thinks jason could possibly be scum here.

Tammy needs some more time to read; she has been catching up on grading. But right now, she thinks jason is town.

o also, Boon's reads list is town. it doesn't really make sense coming from scum: jason is (assuming I'm right about him being town) a really beneficial mislynch for scum, and he's sitting there going "nope" and passing up on it. he also avoids both of the other easy-ish targets (Egg and DW) to push TH of all people.

I suppose I could see it, but it's not what I would have expected scum in this position to do at all.

I agree.

[Trojan Horse]

What's WK-ing?

[Trojan Horse]

Okay. Some thoughts from Tammy:

Tammy is townreading pie, Boon, and jason. In the case of jason, Tammy is confident that there needs to be some protective role in the game. Given that jason has not been counterclaimed - and given that no other protective role protected STD last night - Tammy thinks that jason is town.

sthar, Tammy wants to know why you are so confident that egg is scum. You've been pushing for his lynch for a while now.

[Trojan Horse]

I'm here. Typing replies now...

[Trojan Horse]

Also the whole thing with the night actions I am going to take the blame for. I intervened because Jason thought STD might be scum and I thought it would be better to protect Obv town pie over maybe scum STD. So to some level it's not fair that he gets the heat for that because he actually was originally going to bodyguard STD and I convinced him to bodyguard Pie instead.

So, jason was going to protect STD, you convinced him not to... and instead of telling us that, jason took the blame himself?

The whole thing is stupid anyway as I feel there's a very good possibility STD roleblocked us anyway. (If that did happen that means STD dies anyway and A KILL WENT THROUGH. That last part isn't a minor point.)

STD did not block you please stop

This. STD was joking, obv.

As for saying who I protected - go fuck yourself. Not saying anything more, not going to give out any more information that can help scum work out who I may or may not protect in the night.

I admit, this surprises me. I thought you were going to say that you protected pie again. I guess your line is going to be that you protected someone that you think is a power role, and you don't want to say who that is. Fine, but I don't buy it.

Given that the scum are killing around the body guarding of pie, I find it incredibly interesting that your thought process seems to line up perfectly with what the scum thought process apparently was.

Also that throughout several points in the game you seem to be giving Tammy's read on Jason minimal weight even though she is reasonably good at doing so.

Eh. I think it was crystal clear who jason would've protected, if not STD. There were no other claimed power roles to protect, so jason would obviously protect the strongest town read. And that's pie.

As for Tammy's reads on jason... I'm torn. She figured out that Thor was scum, while I was still townreading him. Then again, I had a more solid scumread on Mala than Tammy did. So I'm not sure whose read I should trust. Tammy's a strong player, but going against my own reads is so hard...

I will point out that Tammy now has a stronger townread on your slot, Zach. She doesn't think you would swap into the last scum slot. Me, I don't know.

A question for those with more experience than I: how common is it for scum to be provided with safeclaims in a normal game? I know it is often necessary in themed games, but what about normals? Would it be normal for the mod to tell the scum "there are no doctor-type roles in the game", so that scum can safely claim a doctor-type role? If not, then that greatly lowers jason/Zach's chances of being scum.

Zach, so you swapped in to defend yourself better than Jason was? It seems like a survivalistic move to me.

HOLY SHIT
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Egg

Huh? Explain please.

[Trojan Horse]

Okay then. That knocks my jason-scumread down a few levels.

Some other thoughts from Tammy:

- Thor voted jason right off the bat, and stayed on him for all of day 1. Tammy doesn't think Thor would've done that if jason was the last scum. Same for Mala's reactions to jason; Tammy doesn't think it looks like how mala would treat a scummate.

- Tammy thinks STD might have blocked Boon last night, given this post:

If I had to guess who was setting Bins [or whoever STD would have RB'd] up, it makes the most sense to be Delta.

Delta wasn't voting Thor Day 1.He was on Trojan Horse, along with Mala. Looking back on that now, it looks as if they are trying hard to save their buddy by making a semi wagon turn into a full on counter wagon. Day 2, Delta was trying hard to protect Malakittens, under the radar.

Delta was pushing for my lynch, which actually picked up near the end of the Day. 3 people were on Delta, Delta was the only one on me, and the rest lynched Mala. Delta makes the most sense as scum. (Unless Bins actually is scum, and legitimately got Roleblocked, but this was an easy setup for scum).

If you replace the word 'Delta' with 'Boons' then you have a reason why I'm just as wary of you if Bins isn't the scum.

- Tammy found this post by Mala, and thinks it might have been scum interacting with scum:

I'm really fucking lost and I feel like the day is moving really fast. Does anybody wanna be a good samaritan and help me catch up?

I feel like I'm speaking German and Pie is speaking Swiss. Half the time her posts are spot on, and the other half I'm getting instructions on how to turn a lawnmower into a bong.


I gotta say that my primary deterrent on the Mala wagon is how it feels like everybody is talking about wanting to be on it except obvtown Boon. Couple that with not getting the case and my top scumread being on the wagon and I'm not really inclined to push it much.

Skrew is problematic, but I'm feeling inclined to give him more time.

AFAICT Egg is still a fantastic lynch. The only argument I've seen for him being town amounts to WIFOM.

I have to say I agree with you on my wagon view about how there's no resistance to it. Although right now we have three people's views regarding it unaccounted for: Jason, DW and Vyse.

I don't get why Skrew is problematic. Can you explain that for me? Also this is probably the third person so far this game that you said you would be inclined to give more time. I feel like you're trying to dance step your way away from certain things. I have to say I'm waiting for Vsye to post, but SK is different. He has been in the game so far, he hasn't had to be replaced, or prodded or been VLA for most of the game. Why are you saying he's problematic now? What's the reason warranted for more time?

- SK, Tammy is agreeing with you about that latest post by Egg. She doesn't like it either.

[Trojan Horse]

Funny how he's deciding to go after me now that I've figured out he's scum.

Huh? Are you talking about me? Where did I say I was going after you?

If you're talking about what I said yesterday, my reads have shifted.

[Trojan Horse]

And I mean yesterday as in game days, not RL days.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan, which of your reads have changed?

I guess it's just Boon (I don't find him as scummy as I did Day 3), and jason/Zach (I thought the STD death was solid evidence, but the talk about game balance has dissuaded me). Everyone else is about where they were before.

[Trojan Horse]

Alright, let me take a shot at this.

I'm going to make a (probably stupid) assumption, and guess that scum would not have bussed each other during day 2. (Unless both scum came under pressure; then they'd pretty much have no choice but to do some bussing.) It would've been a risky move, with one scum lynched Day 1; top priority is keeping both remaining scum alive. They could do some bussing later, but not right then.

Under my horrible assumption, pie, SK, and Egg are all town. (I'm not counting sthar here, who fought against Mala's lynch until right before she claimed.) Let's also assume jason/Zach is scum, due to play balance and all that. That leaves Boon, sthar, and Delta.

If it's Boon, that means scum has never voted scum at all this game. Tempting, but I don't think so. Besides, STD probably blocked Boon last night.

If it's sthar, that means scum pulled the "one scum jump on Thor, one scum stay away from Thor" trick at the end of day 1. Sounds reasonable.

If it's Delta, that means both of Thor's scummates tried to save him by jumping on my bandwagon, and then they tried to put distance between each other during day 2. Mala went after Delta hard; Delta held back. Could be, I guess.

In the end, I just have to go by scumreads. Let's give this a try:

VOTE: sthar

[Trojan Horse]

That should've read "jason/Zach is town", of course. Man, changing reads is hard to do...

[Trojan Horse]

(I'm not counting sthar here, who fought against Mala's lynch until right before she claimed.)

You are either not reading the thread, you are misremembering facts, or you are misrepresenting them to create a narrative.

You were pushing to lynch either Delta or Egg during day 2. Here's the first post I could find where you gave even a hint that you might be willing to vote mala:

I'm here, just incredibly frustrated.

I'll compromise on a mala vote if it means pie's not in crazy tunnel land tomorrow.

I guess that's intent.

And by that point, mala already had 4 votes, with me signaling that I would be a fifth. I think that's enough to say that you weren't bussing your scummate, if you are scum.

If there were any earlier posts that I didn't see, go ahead and point them out.

[Trojan Horse]

This conversation between Egg and SK sounds like an Abbott and Costello routine...

Delta, who's your top scumpick right now? I think you're the only one that hasn't given an opinion yet today.

[Trojan Horse]

4. RB'ed actions don't show up on tracker or watcher reports.

*checks the wiki*

Bleh. You're right. That shoots down my argument.

[Trojan Horse]

except RB'd actions not being on tracker/watcher reports is, as I said, common knowledge

Apparently not completely common knowledge, because I didn't know about it.

So, sthar's thought is that Mala might not have realized that roleblocked actions can't be seen by trackers, so she might have honestly claimed that she targetted SK out of fear of trackers (not realizing those fears were pointless). Perhaps. But now we are making a lot of assumptions. I don't want to base my SK townread on this.

But on the matter of SK I would think it would be extremely risky to claim your scumbuddy as a target for an action you are fake claiming.

I could make that leap if there's good evidence of a link between SK/Thor or SK/Mala though.

Here's some early interactions for you to chew on, but I think they point against SK being scum.

GET HYPED.

VOTE: SLEEPYKREW

This was right at the start of day 1. There was a flashwagon on SK, and Mala was the 3rd person on it.

The very next post:

Vote: JasonT

I'm out of RVS now.

PEdit - and it pains me, because I want to vote the flashwagon - but I think JasonT actually looks worse.
That said, I'll agree with the core idea of voting anyone derp enough to random vote so...meh.
I think Jason i sprobably actually scum though - look at that post again.

Do you think Mala and Thor would've playacted like this if SK was their 3rd scummate? I don't.

[Trojan Horse]

I'm assuming because there isn't a real interest in lynching him there's some reason he's town that I'm missing though?

I don't really think his play D1 comes from scum. he would have been bussing Thor at a point where it doesn't make much sense to do so.

He didn't vote Thor until the end of day 1. At that point, it looked like the lynch would be either Thor or me. sthar voted for Thor; Mala voted for me. Don't you think "one scum on Thor, one scum off" makes sense for scum to do?

[Trojan Horse]

sthar's Thor vote:

VOTE: Thor

Epiphany. I'm mobile, so explanation and fact checking later.

Looks like it was four days before the deadline. Sooner than I thought. Meh...

[Trojan Horse]

Delta, who's your top scumpick right now? I think you're the only one that hasn't given an opinion yet today.

[Trojan Horse]

but regardless, if someone appears to be lining a bunch of people up when scum need 3 mislynches to win, you have to consider that it might be coming from scum, regardless of what the specific reasoning behind it is

the other thing I'm wondering is if there is literally any way at all sthar can be scum here

bc if there's not, I would feel 100% comfortable just autolynching SK -> Egg -> Boon (not caring about order except I'd want Boon last) since I have I WILL EAT YOU IF YOU LYNCH THESE PEOPLE level town reads on everyone else in the game

[Trojan Horse]

The thing is, I don't think SK has been trying to spread suspicion on multiple people at the same time. I don't interpret some of those SK quotes as "trying to spread suspicion".

I don't want to give a full rebuttal to your case against SK (if anyone should do that, it should be SK). Let me just pick out one thing: I don't see any post from day 3 on where SK was trying to push a Boon lynch. He has complained about Boon playing badly, but that's not the same as trying to push a Boon lynch.

SK did express interest in lynching Boon at the start of day 2. But that was at the VERY start. He voted for mala about six hours after day start... and I don't think he has tried to spread suspicion onto Boon since then.

[Trojan Horse]

Three thoughts from Tammy:

1. Tammy told me about a game she played with Mala, where Mala went after a particular player because their RVS vote turned out to be a scum. Because of that, Tammy doesn't think Mala would vote her scummate during RVS (i.e. Tammy thinks SK is town).

2. Mala claimed to have shot SK night 1, but that wasn't really consistent with her earlier reads. Tammy thinks that Mala just forgot her read on SK... but she wouldn't have forgotten her read if SK was her scummate.

3. Tammy thinks the last scum is sthar or Egg. (I think sthar is much more likely than Egg, but that's just me...)

[Trojan Horse]

Needed to bring this up since Pie is arguing that Delta is town and should never be lynched.

How does this...

So how is Thor scum?

This is so much bullshit.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: STD

Not at least have a decent chance of being scum?

Okay. Now I know I'm an idiot. From Day 1 (I'm adding some bold type for emphasis):

Okay, I think my thoughts are a little more organized now.

I've been wondering if Delta provoked an argument with STD as a scummove, to distract the town. But if that's the case, and it wasn't just Delta being Delta, then why would he feel a need to do that? Jason was the only viable wagon at the time. So Delta's actions make no sense as a scummove, unless Jason is also scum.

Looks like my scumread on Delta depends on my scumread on Jason. So there's really no reason for me to vote for Delta right now.

UNVOTE: DeltaWave

Okay, I'm back in the Jason camp.

When Delta picked that fight with STD, STD had already cast a vote on Thor. So maybe Delta DID pick that fight as a scummove; he wanted to throw STD off his game, because he was correctly suspecting Thor.

Now I have to reread Delta? Bleh...

[Trojan Horse]

Three thoughts from Tammy:

1. Tammy told me about a game she played with Mala, where Mala went after a particular player because their RVS vote turned out to be a scum. Because of that, Tammy doesn't think Mala would vote her scummate during RVS (i.e. Tammy thinks SK is town).

2. Mala claimed to have shot SK night 1, but that wasn't really consistent with her earlier reads. Tammy thinks that Mala just forgot her read on SK... but she wouldn't have forgotten her read if SK was her scummate.

re 1: I'm not sure how Mala not voting her scum partner would follow from her pushing someone for RVS'ing her partner in a different game. are you sure that isn't just a coincidence and it's entirely unrelated to this?

Tammy's reply: she thinks that if a person catches scum because scum did X, then that person is less likely to do X as scum, for fear of getting caught himself/herself.

pie, I have a question for you: you've said that sthar's vote of Thor day 1 was unlikely to be a bus. Why don't you feel the same way about SK's vote of Mala day 2?

[Trojan Horse]

Sleepykrew's Thor vote is a better reason to town read him.

I have reasons to read SK as town, but that's not one of them. That could've just been part of a "one scum votes for Thor, one scum doesn't vote for Thor" trick.

No more posts from me until tonight. I really shouldn't be doing this at work.

[Trojan Horse]

some people think SK is town bc of Mala claiming to target him - which is objectively wrong and I do not want people operating under that assumption

If anyone is still thinking that, please stop. I proposed that because I was under the misconception that roleblocked actions would still be trackable.

Two days to deadline. We need to converge on someone soon.

when sthar voted Thor it was basically just me and STD who were suspecting Thor and that was all there was to it - no one else was interested in wagoning him. sthar's vote served to give the wagon the momentum it needed to actually become a viable lynch, at a point where it was (as STD said) dead in the water. if he didn't vote it, I probably couldn't have got it lynched

on the other hand, there was a lot of general suspicion directed towards Mala on D2, plus I was pushing her a lot harder than I pushed Thor. I likely would have been able to lynch her, or get her relatively close to being lynched, without his vote. it would make sense he would vote her sooner rather than later as scum in order to get the most town cred possible off it.

I do take the Mala vote as a minor point in his favor, but at this point POE points to him and I (and mastin) have stronger evidence for him being scum.

I'm still not buying it. SK voted for Mala really early in the day: about seven hours after day started. You and STD were both on Mala, but you had only started making your case against Mala. Mala didn't seem to be in any serious danger yet. If SK really thought he needed to bus his buddy right then and there, then SK is a pretty nervous scum.

Hmm. Let's try this:

SK, are your teammates giving you any reads right now?

Delta, same question.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan, don't you think sthar as scum would have switched to voting you Day 1 and blamed me for the mislynch assuming you are town? Why would sthar stay on Thor at that point unless he was town who was sure of his read? Why let it go to no lynch like I was threatening to do when he could get a mislynch? The only way it makes sense for sthar to be scum there is if you are scum too which doesn't add up (4 scum in a 13p).

If sthar is scum, then at that point, he has pretty much committed to the "one scum on Thor, one scum off Thor" strategy. Think about how it would've looked if he switched to me at the last minute, after pushing so hard against Thor. If Thor ever gets lynched, then sthar is toast.

Would sthar let it go to no lynch if he was scum? Sure, because a no lynch would've been good for scum. Would we have lynched sthar for letting a no lynch happen? Probably not, since he wouldn't have been the only one to blame for that. Plus, if Thor gets lynched later, then sthar looks town for staying on Thor.

I do have some doubts here, but my doubts are because of how sthar jumped ONTO the Thor bandwagon. It doesn't look like a normal bus.

[Trojan Horse]

Uggghhhh I fell asleep unexpectedly yesterday
TODAY
I SWEAR ON QUILFORD'S EVER BEATING HEART

SleepyKrew is living up to his username...

[Trojan Horse]

Okay, confession time. I haven't been honest with you guys today.

After I made this post...

Sleepykrew's Thor vote is a better reason to town read him.

I have reasons to read SK as town, but that's not one of them. That could've just been part of a "one scum votes for Thor, one scum doesn't vote for Thor" trick.

No more posts from me until tonight. I really shouldn't be doing this at work.

... I went back to work, but I couldn't keep myself from thinking about the game. Pie, your arguments against SK were starting to sway me at that point. I was starting to picture SK as scum. But I decided to hold back my newfound suspicions.

Why hold back? I was curious as to what SK would do next. I figured I'd wait until he cast another vote. I was hoping I'd be able to tell the difference between SKtown voting for a scumread, and SKscum voting out of self-preservation.

Unfortunately, SK hasn't done anything, and time is running out. I don't think I can wait any longer; I'm just going to take a shot at this.

UNVOTE: sthar
VOTE: SleepyKrew

[Trojan Horse]

From the end of day 1, when the lynch was obviously going to be Thor or me:

Well shit deadline's probably going to hit before I wake up and I'm still not right in the head. I think a TH lynch is the best viable option. Going to go pull up the stuff that set my teammates' scumdars off.

Universal hatred for 539.

Also Quil said the way Trojan went about his early interactions with me (about me not RVSing) reminded him of scum Trojan, and Reck was on board with that.

He said TH likes to strawman as scum, and that the way he was oversimplifying and misrepresenting the game seemed to fit the bill.

At the time, Oversoul told me he thought this looked like SK trying to protect his buddy. When SK switched to Thor, I threw out that theory. Maybe my teammate was right all along, and SK just changed his mind and bussed Thor.

[Trojan Horse]

like I said I was gonna and it's not even late yet and we've still got 38 hours

We need to have some time in reserve, in case the person we want to lynch claims a power role or something. So I'd say it IS late right now.

[Trojan Horse]

If someone claims a power role today we're fucking lynching them

Does this mean you're claiming VT?

[Trojan Horse]

sthar, you probably should start thinking about alternatives. There's a good chance Delta will vote for Boon (bleh), which means it will all be up to you.

[Trojan Horse]

Someone tell me if the following statement is false:
The Mala wagon was stalling until Egg joined.

Forgot to respond to this.

I call this one false. I had already voiced some suspicion of Mala, well before Egg joined the bandwagon. The only thing keeping me off the Mala bandwagon was the absent Vyse. If he had given me some good answers, I might have switched to Mala a lot sooner.

Mala had three votes, with a potential fourth (me) waiting in the wings. I wouldn't call that a stalled bandwagon.

[Trojan Horse]

Delta, any word from your teammates? You need to make a decision pretty soon.

[Trojan Horse]

One thing I'm trying to figure out here: why SK unvoted Egg when he did.

UNVOTE:
ugh
need to process

SK, if you're around: why did you unvote Egg? I don't see why you would've unvoted Egg at that moment, regardless of whether you are town or scum.

[Trojan Horse]

Two hours left.

I'll be around until deadline.

[Trojan Horse]

I'm actually a bit relieved to see Zach go. I still had some thoughts that he might be scum.

Okay. If we have any information-gathering power roles, you might want to consider coming forward now. With only six of us left, there's a significant chance that you will be killed tonight - and you'll take your information to the grave. Perhaps you should speak up now, while you still can. I'm really hoping there's a tracker out there; a tracker would almost be as good as a cop at this point, since all of the nightkills were made by our one remaining scum. (Thor was lynched day 1; Mala was blocked night 1 and lynched day 2. So the third scum must have made all the kills.) So if you tracked anyone and got "this person did nothing" (except on night 2), that person must be town.

Of course, if any info-gathering role speaks up, that person will probably die tonight. But at least we'll have the information. If you can clear a couple of people, I think it's worth it.

[Trojan Horse]

Is "popcorn" where each person who claims picks the next person to claim? If so, I think that's the way to go. (And I'd like to pick the first person, since I've already claimed VT.)

But I should point out...

and I agree with massclaim

I didn't actually say "massclaim"...

Anyway, I'm giving a final exam in a couple of hours. I'll probably check in again at that point.

[Trojan Horse]

Sthar goes first.

Yes, I agree.

But before we jump in: is anybody opposed to a massclaim?

[Trojan Horse]

I guess it's unanimous then.

[Trojan Horse]

Great minds think alike, pie. The possibility of a traitor occurred to me too. I was just typing that out, but you beat me to the punch.

Do you guys know of any other normal mafia roles that weaken the mafia team?

[Trojan Horse]

My scumreads are continuing to shift. If I had to stake the game on the next lynch, I think I'd choose Delta. Mostly because it seems like his interest in scumhunting has waned as the game has gone on.

The main thing that troubles me about lynching Delta is his interactions with Mala during day 2. Doesn't really look like scum vs scum. But at this point, everyone has done something that is inconsistent with being scum. So I'm not too bothered by that.

[Trojan Horse]

TH, thoughts on Egg and Boon?

I was going to say "leaning town on Egg, null on Boon". But this post...

As scum, there would be no reason for me to not claim a PR in my position during the mass claim.

... is REALLY bothering me.

I'm dealing with dinner and laundry right now. More explanation coming later.

[Trojan Horse]

My scumreads are continuing to shift. If I had to stake the game on the next lynch, I think I'd choose Delta. Mostly because it seems like his interest in scumhunting has waned as the game has gone on.

Ahem.

[Trojan Horse]

I should know better than to delve too deeply into Boon's meta. But this time, I can't resist.

As scum, there would be no reason for me to not claim a PR in my position during the mass claim.

Boon, if you were scum, what kind of PR do you think you would've claimed?

Think about that, and then hopefully you'll see why this post bothers me so much.

[Trojan Horse]

If you had claimed tracker as scum, you would've made things a lot harder on yourself, since you would've had to clear some townies with your supposed night actions.

Watcher would've been a better choice, but you still would've been running the risk of someone claiming a power role after you. If that happened, we would've figured that either you or that other person was lying.

In short, if you were scum, you had plenty of reason to claim VT.

That's all for me for tonight.

[Trojan Horse]

TH, thoughts on Egg and Boon?

Okay, let me elaborate a little bit on my earlier comment.

I've had a townread on Egg for most of the game. The shenanigans at the end of day 1 worried me a bit, but otherwise, he has felt pretty town to me. I'm a bit surprised that sthar has been tunneling on Egg for pretty much the whole game.

As for Boon... well, to explain my feelings about Boon, I should give you some context. Are any of you guys fans of the reality show The Mole? Here's the Wikipedia page for the last season of The Mole in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mole_ ... eason_5%29

The mole for this season (Craig Slike) was a goofball. He wasn't as capable as the other players when it came to physical challenges, and he repeatedly pointed that out, and laughed about it. He made himself the comic relief of the group. As a result, when he sabotaged various challenges, he got laughs from the group instead of suspicion. He had most of the group completely fooled.

That's the vibe I get from Boon. Because of all his meta-talk, whenever he does something scummy, he can just pass it off as meta. Plus, if anyone accuses him of being scum, Boon can just say "oh, that's scum looking for an easy person to lynch". Boon has made it VERY hard to get a read on him.

Could Boon be town? Of course. But he could also be scum. And I'm thinking it might be best to lynch him now, just to get the distraction out of the way. If I'm in an endgame with sthar, Egg, and Delta (I assume pie will be the next scumkill), I think I'd have a fighting chance to get a solid read on the last scum. With Boon around, that would be a lot harder.

I think that covers it.

[Trojan Horse]

By the way: while this isn't relevant to the game, I hope you will indulge me a bit. If I don't tell someone about this, I think I'll explode.

Here's basically what went through my head this morning, as I prepared to put together the preceding post:



"Okay, need to find the Wikipedia page for Mole 5. Okay, here it is... and there's the mole, Craig Slike. Okay..."

"Hmm. 'Slike'. That name sounds familiar. Didn't I know a Slike in high school? Yeah, I did. He was one year of ahead of me. What was his first name? I don't remember; we always called him 'Slike'. Eh, it couldn't be the same Slike.... could it?"

"Okay, it's probably not the same Slike, but I'm going to look this up anyway; otherwise, I'll be thinking about it all day."

*grabs old yearbook*

"Okay, we were in junior high this year. Let's see if I can find him... ah, there he is... Craig Slike. Whoa boy. Is the face the same? Kinda looks like it... but this is a junior high picture. Too hard to tell. Let's find a later picture..."

*grabs another old yearbook*

"Okay, Slike would've been a senior this year. Let's see... here he is, Craig Slike. Is the face the same? I think it IS! Oh no. Now I need to do some Googling..."



Long story short, my Google searches have convinced me. Apparently, I went to high school with the mole. Somehow, I watched that entire season of The Mole, and I never made the connection. I'm a total idiot.

[Trojan Horse]

I like most of your arguments, pie. I only want to quibble with one of them:

Granted, I was hard pushing for people not to lynch you because I thought you were obv town. A lot like how I was with Bins this game...interesting.

the other paranoid thought is that I think no-killing on purpose to line up a mislynch is exactly the kind of thing Boon would do as scum - and that if that is what he actually did here, it would make sense to WK it and then say something like this to call attention to it

he's demonstrated in several other games he has a tendency to no-kill on purpose as scum.

I'm not sure if anyone else in this playerlist would have done this.

I think

anyone

else in the playerlist would have done this. I don't think the purpose of the no-kill was to set up a mislynch; that was just an added benefit for scum. The purpose was to coax the roleblocker into claiming, so scum could kill him.

I don't think the no-kill is evidence against Boon. It's a null tell.

[Trojan Horse]

I would absolutely have no-killed, except that I'm pretty sure that

Mala's claim was intended to out the roleblocker and succeeded.

Why would they need to out him twice? What made it worth putting the game on the MYLO track?

Huh? Mala's claim didn't out the roleblocker, unless there's something I missed...

[Trojan Horse]

I'm trying to figure out why scum would leave STD alive if they had correctly figured out he was the RB on D2. given jason was a bogyguard and thus would (or rather, *should*) protect STD, I really do not think it would be worth it to no kill in that situation as opposed to shooting STD immediately - in other scenarios, it'd be worth it, but not when it'd get protected, I don't think. I'm not sure about this, though.

You're right. Scum would've shot STD if they had known he was the roleblocker. So obviously, they didn't know.

Sthar, you're clearly a more perceptive player than I am. None of those posts you quoted made me think that STD was a roleblocker. I guess scum didn't figure it out, either.

(Then again, maybe sthar is scum, and this is just a subliminal attempt to make us think otherwise. "I knew STD was a roleblocker. Scum didn't. So I'm not scum." )

[Trojan Horse]

Votecount 3.2:

Bins (6-LYNCH)-

Trojan Horse, Save The Dragons, pieguyn, SleepyKrew, jasonT1981, Egg

Deltawave (1)-

Boonskiies

Not voting (3)-

Bins, Deltawave, sthar8,

With 10 alive it take 6 to lynch. Deadline is at 6pm GMT on Tuesday 12th May 2015. (expired on 2015-05-12 13:00:00)

Bins has been lynched. Flip incoming.

Actually, this wagon is probably the most helpful. I feel scum has to be on this wagon. There's one scum left at this point, and for them to gambit the Bins mislynch without even pushing for it seems off. It's trojan or egg.

1. Again, I don't think the no-kill was a gambit to get a mislynch. It was a gambit to get the RBer to claim. The mislynch was just gravy for scum at that point.

2. Who says scum would've pushed for the Bins lynch? As soon as STD claimed his block of Bins, there was roughly a 100% chance that we were going to lynch Bins eventually. No need for scum to apply any extra pressure.

I think the events of night 2 and day 3 are a 100% null tell.

[Trojan Horse]

actually, STD was scum reading me. I think this pushes towards Trojan scum.

Plus, he speaks as if he knows stuff we don't anyways.

Huh? I don't know what you're talking about.

[Trojan Horse]

I was under major consideration to getting roleblocked the night Bins did and the no kill happened.

Sadly, I don't think I can go by that. Who knows what STD did the night he was killed? Would it really have been weird of him not to block you? Not as weird as Jason deciding not to protect STD.

[Trojan Horse]

Clearly, I can't read today.

I'm not sure why you're bringing this up, though. Okay, maybe STD was contemplating blocking you the night he blocked Bins. Are you saying scum did a no-kill to frame you, and ended up framing Bins instead?

[Trojan Horse]

If you were scum thinking you might be RBed, then all the MORE reason for you to pull the no-kill gambit, in hopes of making the RBer claim. The sooner you find and kill the RBer, the better. (I still don't think scum had any idea that STD was the RBer, until he officially said so.)

You're not helping your case here, Boon.

[Trojan Horse]

How many of you guys had any inkling that STD might be an RBer, before he officially said so? Don't tell me I was the only one stupid enough not to figure it out...

[Trojan Horse]

I'm trying to see if Mala is adverse to bussing as scum and that's the only recent scum game I've found so far. -.- just based on this, though, I doubt she would bus on D2 with several other lynch options available and a known town RB in the game.

Here's a follow-up question to that, though: do you think Mala would put her scummate down as one of TWO options, and then vote for the other one? (Which basically means she is calling her scummate her #2 scumread.) Because that's what Mala did with Egg during D2.

Oversoul no longer has to worry about his own game, so he gave this game a reread. Based on the reread, he's leaning towards Egg. I'm going to think about it...

[Trojan Horse]

Grr. I had just about gotten to the point where I was ready to vote for Egg. Then Boon had to go stick his foot in his mouth again, and make me reconsider.

Sigh...

I'll still do it, but you're not making this easy, Boon...

VOTE: Egg

[Trojan Horse]

Egg's 1st post:

Vote Sleepykrew

Also I'm V/LA. Don't know until when. Shooting for about April 6th.

Mala's 1st post:

GET HYPED.

VOTE: SLEEPYKREW

Thor's 3rd post (emphasis mine):

Oh yeah, I actually misread who was being speed wagoned there.
Eh, I'm good with the 'Sleepy is useless' case also, though it is spearheaded by a derp vote whom I would also be fine voting.

Mala and Egg were good voters.

@Save - what part of his actions is protected by the "sanctity" of RVS?

Egg's 5th post (emphasis mine):

Mala, what is your read on Thor?

Not sure I like STD's... would you call it pre-OMGUS? He basically implies that if Thor votes him soon, he's scum.

The high percentage of dice talk in Fenchurch's posts feels weird too.

Would scum have connected themselves together like that so early in the game? I wonder...

[Trojan Horse]

-Trojan. Reasoning for your vote.

Let me quote one of my earlier posts:

Alright, let me take a shot at this.

I'm going to make a (probably stupid) assumption, and guess that scum would not have bussed each other during day 2. (Unless both scum came under pressure; then they'd pretty much have no choice but to do some bussing.) It would've been a risky move, with one scum lynched Day 1; top priority is keeping both remaining scum alive. They could do some bussing later, but not right then.

Under my horrible assumption, pie, SK, and Egg are all town. (I'm not counting sthar here, who fought against Mala's lynch until right before she claimed.) Let's also assume jason/Zach is scum, due to play balance and all that. That leaves Boon, sthar, and Delta.

I still think that scum would've tried as best they could to avoid a scumlynch during day 2. However, looking back at that day, I see that Mala already had 3 votes when Egg voted for her, and I had already said that I might be a 4th. Perhaps Egg's vote wasn't a bus, but an attempt to avoid suspicion himself.

There was also the fact that Mala called both Delta and Egg likely scum, and then voted for Delta. Considering the danger Mala was in at that point, I don't think she would've said that she had a solid townread on her scummate. That would just be setting up her scummate to be lynched as well. (So, Boon is probably not the last scum.) But calling her scummate a likely scum, while going for someone else... that makes total sense.

I could dig up some more things, but really, it's a general scumvibe I get from Egg's iso. (Oversoul is saying the same thing.) And since I no longer think Egg's vote of Mala is evidence that Egg is town, I think Egg is the likeliest to be scum.

[Trojan Horse]

town

Save The Dragons

- town. unless he extremely bused BOTH thor and mala. plus RB claim makes sense that he searched that shit up and then ratted mala out.

Pieguyn

- pretty much same as STD but less so. pretty confident pie is just town tho.

Trojan Horse

- CW to thor. his posting right before thor lynch looks very town.

jasonT1981

- one of those odd senarios where his posting has been either scummy or town but everything feels like it points to him being town.

this is a very weak read and probably the one i'm least certain about.

sthar8

- pretty town. and pretty freaking town D2 regarding mala. honestly, tho, i think a town egg flip looks worse for sthar out of the others. that's the only reason why he's lower on the list.

Deltawave

- mala survival-ism bussed you (CW) if you're scum. don't think you're scum because of that one reason (weak, i know, but i can't get a read from your posts in general, maybe it's because i think u look bad [bad votes] just like my slot). scummiest thing about this slot? the boon over mala vote.

SleepyKrew

- i'm worried. but sk's position to mala was ok. his interactions with mala seemed town.

Boonskiies

- i'm gut reading him as town boon. but i have my doubts on this as town. he was townreading mala like crazy......... part of me feels like that has to be genuine. however, that doesn't excuse the rest of the stuff from this slot. and my paranoia.

Egg

-

really null on the actual posts he's made but maybe it's the vote D1 on thor i really hate. and the lack of posts in general that makes him so he just feels "absent". my only doubts for this read are re:mala lynch. which is a pretty big thing.

scum

Emphasis mine. Bins, I'm hoping that you get vindicated here...

[Trojan Horse]

Also, Trojan's 2159 is a beautiful find, and I don't see why we would lynch anyone else besides Egg toDay.

Don't give me credit for that. I know someone else already pointed out this post by Egg:

Mala, what is your read on Thor?

Not sure I like STD's... would you call it pre-OMGUS? He basically implies that if Thor votes him soon, he's scum.

The high percentage of dice talk in Fenchurch's posts feels weird too.

I just don't remember who pointed it out. sthar maybe? I'm too lazy to look it up.

[Trojan Horse]

Three days left. We need to start coming to a consensus.

Sthar, who's your top scumpick now, and why?

Delta, same question.

(I think I know what you both are going to say, but I'll wait until you make it official.)

[Trojan Horse]

Grey thinks TH is scum. I'm not so sure. I'll need to re-read some key parts of the game.

Was this just a general vibe, or was there something specific that was bothering GreyICE?

[Trojan Horse]

My scumdar just exploded into a million pieces. Delta, you owe me a new one.

A boon lynch is essentially a policy lynch at this point but I'm not seeing many other choices.

I'll give you another choice, Delta. But I don't think you'll take it.

UNVOTE: Egg
VOTE: DeltaWave

Details forthcoming. But first, an unrelated issue: sthar's concern about pie not being shot N1.

But why not you on n1?

I was never bothered by scum shooting fen N1 instead of pie. At the time, both seemed to be equally obvtown. I think it was a coinflip as to which one scum should shoot, and it was a coinflip as to which one Jason should protect.

[Trojan Horse]

*shrug*

Since pie has already switched away from sthar, and the re-read makes me more confident on Mala-scum, I'm moving my vote, although I'm willing to move again in order to get a lynch. But I'd much prefer not to lynch Thor or jason Today.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Malakittens

Sleepy - what is your read on Mala?

That was Fen's last vote before he switched to Thor. I think scum would've been equally afraid of both pie and Fen.

[Trojan Horse]

Hang on, pie. I'm putting my case together now. Once I've done that, if you think my case is crazy, let me know.

[Trojan Horse]

My post from the start of the Day:

My scumreads are continuing to shift. If I had to stake the game on the next lynch, I think I'd choose Delta. Mostly because it seems like his interest in scumhunting has waned as the game has gone on.

I feel even stronger about this now. Take a good look at Delta's iso, folks. I don't see much effort to scumhunt from day 3 on. He hasn't even cast a vote in all that time. It looks like he's trying to fly under the radar, and let the rest of us do the work. Isn't that a usual scum tactic, to make it look like you are losing interest in the game?

If that was all I was concerned about, I wouldn't be bringing it up now. Delta moved up to #2 on my scumlist, behind Egg. I was prepared to wait until I saw Egg's flip; no reason to start a flashwagon right now.

But this REALLY set me off:

A boon lynch is essentially a policy lynch at this point but I'm not seeing many other choices.

Tell me the egg case but without the bullshit

Do you see what he's doing here? He's subtlely denigrating both of the current bandwagons, so that regardless of whether we lynch Boon or Egg (a town flip either way), Delta looks more town for not pushing that lynch. Then Delta is all set for the endgame, because he has two suspects lined up: either Boon or Egg (whoever we don't lynch now), and me. Easy win for him.

I think pie is nearly conftown. Sthar has indications of being town. The scum is probably within {Egg, Boon, Trojan.} The only thing I really have on Boon is the self-meta, which could just be a terrible town argument, so I'm going to be re-evaluating everything here.

If Boonskiies was scum, that would mean the entire Malakittens wagon was town-driven and nobody was bussing her. I'm not saying it's impossible but I would expect a busser at that stage of the game. This does sort of call TH into question.

The thing about Boon is that I can't tell if what he's doing is scum motivated or town motivated because it seems almost random to me. Like Boon gets pissed and then cooks up a whole case around being annoyed at someone. We're too late in the game for a policy lynch though. Grey thinks TH is scum. I'm not so sure. I'll need to re-read some key parts of the game.

Couple that with Egg's apparent not caring about his impending lynch (though admittedly, that could just be scum trying to bluff his way out of it), and I REALLY think Delta is scum here.

Okay, let me have it. Why am I crazy?

[Trojan Horse]

....didn't even read the last few pages, did you? Trojan Horse made pretty good cases for Egg scum, and I quoted a lot of sthar's cases.

My attention has been lapsing. I'll go check it out.

Your attention has been lapsing as we have gotten closer to endgame? I'm not buying it.

Trojan, don't do that with deadline coming. No lynch is inexcusable right now and Mala probably didn't hardbus Day 2 after losing a scumbuddy Day 1.

I have no intention to no lynch. As for what happened day 2: I agree that after Thor's lynch, Mala didn't want to bus. But if Delta is scum, the bus makes sense. Mala and Delta were garnering almost all the votes at that point. What could they do? Having one scum (Mala) bus, and having the other scum (Delta) not bus, seems to be the right move.

[Trojan Horse]

It's more than just showing skepticism of wagons. You're just sitting back and letting the rest of us do the scumhunting. All the better to avoid suspicion.

Delta, let me ask you the same question I asked before: who is your top scumpick right now? (I'm willing to wait until you get back to a computer.) Honestly, if you had made an effort to push someone today - even ME - I wouldn't be so sure that you're scum right now.

If you push one wagon intensely and they flip town, you are scum eager for a mislynch.

I disagree with that part. Boon tried to lynch me for most of the game, but I don't think he's scum for that.

[Trojan Horse]

I think I'm calming down now. But my mind isn't changing.

DW would have had Boon/Egg as the two mislynches already. he doesn't need to go out of his way to line you up for _another_ lynch.

It does give him an extra option for getting that last mislynch. But you're right, it's not all that necessary.

Mala and DW were literally the only wagons. how would have making one scum bus and the other not bus allowed them to get out of it? why wouldn't they, for instance, attempt to push a counterwagon on someone like Egg in order to save both of them?

and I still don't understand why Mala tries to lynch DW (the 2nd-to-last scum) when there's a confirmed RB+bodyguard in the game. attempting to face that solo is still suicide for scum

But Delta DID try to push another wagon. He tried to lynch Boon. What did you think Mala was going to do? Also push Boon? Then Mala and Delta are tied together. Push someone else? Then everyone is going to wonder why neither Mala nor Delta is trying to push the other. If Delta is scum, Mala was kind of stuck there.

this just makes me come back to thinking it's just Boon and we're sitting here WIFOM'ing ourselves over nothing

This worries me. I really don't want to lose to Boonscum. But I think Boon is town.

Note: I will hop back onto Egg or Boon if necessary to avoid a no lynch. (Egg would be a better choice than Boon.) But I'd rather lynch Delta.

[Trojan Horse]

if both of the scum are being wagoned, of course they need to do more than they usually would in order to get out of it. it would draw attention to them, yes, but it's still better than the alternative (going into N2 with only one scum left).

it's somewhat high risk, but necessary

So this is also why you think Boon is likelier scum than Egg? Because if Egg were scum, he would've made more of an effort to save Mala? (Egg was #4 on Mala. Boon stayed on Delta.)

*sigh*

I've asked my teammates if they think I'm crazy. We'll see what they say.

[Trojan Horse]

Pie just can't get over the possibility of losing to ScumBoon, so she's not going to change her vote Trojan. She's just tunneling with a stick up her butt so she doesn't have to do any actual work. GuyInFreezer wanted me to tell her to stop being lazy since she will probably be the kill toNight anyways. Although, if I was scum, I feel it'd be smart to keep her alive considering how bad she's playing toDay.

And Boon is once again making it hard for me not to vote for him... sigh...

If sthar has no interest in lynching Delta, then I'll give it up for now. But let's see what he says.

[Trojan Horse]

@TH: this was the second vote on DW, and the reads list was before Boon even voted him.

What?

Now why don't I check these things before I go on a rant?

Let me look this up for myself...

[Trojan Horse]

Grrrrrr...

UNVOTE: DeltaWave

How about I just shut up now, and hammer whichever of Boon or Egg you guys choose?

[Trojan Horse]

That's 3 on Boon. I guess I'll be hammering, but I want to give sthar a chance to chime in first.