Newbie 2061 | Views of Tallinn | Town wins

[VFP]

Hello.

I'll be on to post this evening.

[VFP]

VFP + T3 scumteam inbound

the replacements both betraying us

Will it help that I'm putting T3 as town here?

[VFP]

iN3krO I like as town.

@T3

What's your read here now? 467 is town.

[VFP]

423 is scummy. Cat boi looks to be testing the waters with this post.
I'm not sure why they don't just vote my slot before the replace in though as I read their ISO as convenient or safe. Maybe town credit here.

@Catboi

What makes NM scum possibility to you after 27?

[VFP]

T3
iN3krO

Meuh

NM

marcistar
catboi

Pearofclubs

Spoiler: Pear

So the entrance seemed a bit over explained in 40 and the being late part seems odd. 52 is more over explaining, as if trying to come accross as town.
62 / 64 is just trying to look busy while attempting to do nothing other than say "This person made a post that could or could not be scummy".
86 Second time to use the excuse of a new player being nervouse to justify not making a read, and again this entire post is just over explained and empty.
98 At first this looked like a really good post. Placing players as town / scum, giving reasons (even if they are just filler), and even asking Ink3ro a bunch of questions. However, there's no follow up when Ink3ro doesn't answer these? Even mentions that they want to see Ink3ro's response128 Which suggests that these were just to look busy and shade.
124 / 145 / 166 - Just filler again.
Back to 128 and this is just another post to post point.
134 This is the first post which I don't mind so much. Still could be seen as a convenient vote but minor credit for not just sitting on Ink3ro.
190 goes back into the scummy pile as the top part just seems reaching for a reason. The bottom part is just again overly explained to just say Null as if they are worried how to word it.
209Is what makes me think the read on Catboi is fake. "Why do I see you not answering questions as scummy?". Keep in mind that Ink3ro has posted again at this point and hasn't answered 98, yet Pear doesn't see this as scummy, even though it's the same reason. If this is what pings Pear to find scum, then this would be a prime place to point the finger. Ink3ro has jsut gone off the radar in Pear's peach, as has majority of the players by this point, and yet I still don't understand the full case here on Catboi.
305 / 306 - This is just a full speculation post that is shading Norwegianboyee for things that should be NAI. This is also shortly after NM puts Catboi to E2, Pear just seems to want to jump off. The entire explanation is once again, you guessed it, over explained. The only times that Pear is over explaining is when first entering the game or when putting shade on someone. If their filler posts had additional details in I could see it as a play style. It was a strange flip to even go down this path to your biggest town read with no progression read until this point.
376 I just read it as Pear has a lim going and is going for the LAMIST appeal with the last line.
378 feels strange and a scum flip just makes me suspect Catboi here.
385 / 419 - Empty posts. Even more so for 419 as there's a lot of words there to only basically copy 134. However, the 4th part is Pear knowing that this is a green flip and trying to play the LAMIST again for being "legitimately surprised". This is not a town mindset and that reasoning is poor for this entire case.
421 This post is wierd and looks as if they want to blame T3 going forward. 424 if NM was going to pop up and do it why would it matter if T3 did instead? It just seems like shading to take some of the blame off before a flip has even happened. If Pear was confident here it would be a more believable post.
450 And here is more shading to T3, including the hammer. For someone who was willing to take the back lash, T3 being hammer seems to be a thing here, right?

Conclusion?
Pear ignores every player in the game day 1 other than the person they are 'pushing'. Keep in mind there is no pushing, no sorting and no actual scum hunting.
Catboi getting to E2 and then Pear jumping ship doesn't look good for these 2 slots. Keep in mind, there was no follow up on any previous read. Most players were null.

NorwegianboyEE's wagon is never an all town wagon here.
So at least that rules out NM / marcistar.

The main issue I have with Scum Pear is how many players can be their scum buddy here.

VOTE: Pearofclubs

[VFP]

@Pear

what's your reads now on Catboi, marcistar, and iN3krO?

You haven't pushed anyone in this day, and even T3 you seem to be sitting on before casting a vote.
Your argument above does nothing for me.
"Sorry I over explain"
"The push would have looked good if I got scum"
"Everyone had empty posts day 1"
"I want to OMGUS you here but I'm scared to"

Let me confirm, Pear is only ever over explaining posts when there's pressure to be judged on the side. And if you read their scum game there's a lot of simular posting from there to here.
I'll go through this when I'm at my PC later.

[VFP]

I prefer Very Fake Player!

[VFP]

VFP, thoughts onmarci?

228 is a good post from town mind set plus pushing the game forward, but majority of their posting is just fence sitting and safe for me.
I can go into more detail if you want though but I'd rather lim here than Catboi from my bottom 3.

I'll try to read marcistar and pears isos by tonight so I can try and understand the push on them.

It kinda surprises me that VFP has T3 as a strong town read, I'm mostly aprehensive by T3 playstyle. The way he hastly wrote VFP off as an unreadable player rubbed me the wrong way.

You can tell me why T3 is scum for you.
I'm not sure if T3 was being serious on me being unreadable as I'm sure they can have views on my playstyle.

I think t3's lil push for jailor to out is kinda scummy, also how he hammered norwegianboyee so soon after he entered the game... just feels like he didn't wanna give the effort to give in depth reads

What makes Pear town for you?
If NM hammered yesterday would that be scummy like T3 knowing how Nm plays?

Taking a shot somewhere between Marci/N_M today does seem like a solid idea to me and I think their flips would be telling on the other's alignment, especially red ones.

Whats you're reason on either?

This post doesn't really change my mind on Pear. The only real point against Pear I agree with is the lack of interaction/ignoring others, I do wish they had talked more directly. Calling Pear's early posts fluff or empty is extremely weak to me considering they were some of the meatiest content we had up to that point. You can always put on conf bias glasses on a reread and see the scumminess in posts and I can see why you think some of the things you do, but it doesn't really click to me. Shooting Pear today seems like a bad call.
Oh actually another point that makes sense is the scum team versatility and while that is true, I can't justify going after someone who looks town otherwise just because of this.

I strongly disagree with this and feel that Pear is scum. If that early posting is classed as meaty then scum have been getting a free ride so far. But there's a chance I'm wrong and there's another scum to hit so I am willing to reasons where to go.

I haven't liked Marci's recent posts and considering the pressure being put on her, I'll go ahead and ISO her.

I'll VOTE:

Not_Mafia

for now since I like having my vote somewhere

I'm not liking this if Marci is scum, but I'm sure a follow up will ease my thoughts here.

Ask me things then...? I don't check the thread often anymore since i've been a bit busy with classes and such lately, but i'll still see it.. I can reply to whatever you ask

Why didn't you vote Norwee yesterday?

Pear has had a lack of interaction but has been posting content.

What parts are content? Because I have been through Pear's ISO a few times now and I don't see anything of the sort, that's not forced or just plain empty.

516 won't quote for me on phone for some reason so I'll do a separate post here.

[VFP]

Spoiler: Pear 516

1. Yes, if you read my scumgame you'll find that I similarly overexplain when I make a post I feel is important. That's what I said, except you're convienently leaving out that I did the same thing in my towngame. That was my point. If it's something I do all the time, is it a scumread? I don't really think that's the case.
2. Um, yes. It would've looked good if Norwee had flipped red...? The way you're saying it it seems like you're mocking me for having that mentality, but that isn't even what I said. This is the sort of thing that's making me wonder whether you're on the level or not. I don't feel like town would push half-truths and intentional misinterpretations so hard.
3. Everyone did have a lot of empty posts day one...? You're acting like it's a silly thing to say, but it's true. If everyone's doing something in a game, you can't single someone out and say it's AI for them.
4. It's not OMGUS because in spite of your questionable behavior while scumhunting, I don't actually think you're scum as of right now. I didn't SR Sama, and that's affecting my opinion of your slot. After all, if I want to call you mafia, I have to be able to justify what I've seen out of Sama as a mafia player. Maybe another read'll change that but as of now I think you're okay.

I'll answer your questions, but I just want to put it out there that I'm fully aware you're asking it less for my actual insight and more to get ideas about who my partner is, because you've

totally caught me.

Marcistar- If Marci is mafia then likely N-M is also. She defended him from the notion of a policy vote early on, and town!marci might do that, but scum!marci would be pretty unlikely to unless N-M is her partner. As for her own work, I stand by my prior assessment that I can't really remember much that she's done, despite at this moment she has 48 posts, which is the fourth most in the thread. I take notes on other players when something pings me (although I'll fully admit this past week I've been pretty busy/lazy about this game) and I don't really have all that much about her. I'd somewhat forgotten she was playing. That's bad.

Catboi- Upon glancing back over Cat's meta I'm fairly sure he's town at this point. I didn't like his lack of posting at the beginning of the game but he really opened up and started putting in some work. He questioned my theory when it started catching on, he wanted to slow things down and get as much information out of Norwee as possible at the end of the day. I like the push on marci at this moment. As mentioned above, it makes sense, it's just not something I ever noticed. She flew beneath my radar.

I think Marci's a good place to look today. VOTE: Marcistar
It really isn't helping that she's not around now.

1. So Newbie 2022 I din't realise was completed as it hasn't been added to the title. But I'll go over this one as well then, the first thing that I notice is the below though.

Town game first post.

WELL WELL WELL, LOOKEE WHOS HERE
VOTE: SjReaver

How was your week? :p

Scum game first post.

Sorry for being late, I've been doing work related slideshow "training" for my new job and it's taking way longer than I thought. GLHF everyone!

SJreaver, are you new too? That claim was a little weird.
In post 13, mujie wrote:
In post 9, GuiltyLion wrote:
VOTE: Pearofcubs


Are you just voting for everyone who hasn't replied yet in the hopes that they end up replying?


Maybe? As I understand it, borderline random votes are pretty normal early on.

Here first post.

Hey everyone! Sorry I'm a little late.
For those who don't know me already, this is my third game after a pretty long (half a year-ish?) break. If anyone wants, I can give my entire playing history for examining. Don't know how much it'll help since there's not a lot there and I took a huge break.
Now that that's done, let's get right into the thoughtful and logical analysis, shall we?

So I noticed, if you take marcistar, put the c on top of the r, and drop several other letters, what do you get? maFia. Kind of.

marcistar, how do you respond to this compelling and legitimate evidence?

Also, Norweigianboy, two things- first, is there a shorter name I can use? NB, Nor, NBoy maybe?
I'll check his history for myself in a little bit, but do you have a game you can offer for what you're saying about Not-Mafia's meta? I'd be interested in having a look even if his games are similar.

Your start of game post is much more like your scum game than your town game. I'll give these games a decent read though otherwise I won't use them as AI.

2. I wasn't mocking you at all. I was stating a point that it would be good if it was a red flip, it was a green flip so there is no argument because it shows that you were wrong. Now it's down to determine if your push was fake or not. This is no discredit if you're town either as town can be wrong, but me stating that there is plausible scum motive to pushing there.
If this was a red flip I'd have you as locktown.

3. I don't like this deflection although I see where you are coming from. What you are forgetting is that my case isn't built around you having empty reads, that's a part of it. In a game like this with only 20 pages on day 2 (although I'm not sure on Newbie meta post levels) scum are going to want to let it flow. I agree that there are others with lack of anything day1, but I wouldn't say everyone by any means.

4. This is how I read it. I can see that as a replace in scum being worried to target before getting a feel of their play. Maybe I'm wrong, that's why I'm going to focus you today and see how I feel.

The fact your mindset is that I want to know your opinions on these 3 players because I am trying to find your scum buddy makes me think I may be right.
I have already said that there are a lot of people that can be scum with you on a red flip and I haven't narrowed it down at all. You telling me what you think of these lets me look at your interactions day 1 with or about them and decide if it's fake or not. It also lets me see if I'm right or wrong on these slots and to get a better understanding to view in the game.

I like the view on Marci directly. I found them a player that I had to go back to a lot to remember what was said.
Marci / NM isn't a thing here, otherwise you believe that the entire wagon was town.
What's your view on NM too?

Catboi I disagree with strongly here. 442 is instantly trying to shade T3, and is the only comment today that isn't just a safe comment, and even that has now been left with adding T3 in 482 as uncertain (along with NM who were both in the scum pool previously?)

Why did you miss off iN3krO in your reads?

[VFP]

I don't like how this feels like you're repeating something I already said earlier in the day.

Do you still agree with it though?

[VFP]

Meuh is always town here for me.
Marci lim works for me and I think we just win with Meuh, T3, and iN3krO as town here.
Marci scum makes NM town and iN3krO is plausibly the partner for 513
Marci town just means 2 scum in Pear, Catboi, and NM

[VFP]

VFP what's with the Pear push?

Deep wolf.

[VFP]

And you think day 2 when we stopped the kill n1 is time for a deep wolf push

Of course. Pear is getting off lightly for ticking the scum boxes.
The fact they still haven't gone over iN3krO after 2 requests makes me think they just can't generate another fake read. 542 also shows that they are not reading the game as I already stated why you and Marci aren't scum together.

I'll vote betwen Pear, Marci, and Catboi at this point.

Marci is currently E1 (I think?) and I'll hammer if it comes to it but I want some input first since little has been said since I joined in.
At no point have I said I am limited to Pear only.

[VFP]

A singular line linking to a singular post with no further explanation is honestly not something I think you should expect people to remember really? Tbh I forgot you even made that explanation in the first place, I think it's a stretch to imply Pear "isn't reading the game" for this.

Well, this makes it seems that you didn't read my posts either.
501 is where I'm talking about.

[VFP]

NorwegianboyEE's wagon is never an all town wagon here.
So at least that rules out NM / marcistar.

For clarification.

[VFP]

Hopefully, everyone sees the discrepancy here. So it seems to me, like he was making up a story to try and get people to agree with his push at the time, and did not realize that he had already made up the exact opposite story. This reeks of scum trying to manipulate town.

This is a really good post and a good spot.
If you read the context to Pear's posts they are even worse. It's the before and after having NorwegianboyEE as scum.
Just adapting the comment to suit their agenda.

[VFP]

Why do you see this game as similar to pear's scum game but not their town game? I looked at the two and I can't see any obvious differences at a glance.

This has already been commented on in 527
As stated I though, they only had 1 completed game due to the title not being updated.
I havent read the town game yet and therefore I'm not using this as a push now until I do.

[VFP]

I wouldn't rule out that scumteam.

I would.
The fact you use the posting else where argument is also scummy and really doesn't go down too well for me.

I'm still waiting for your read on iN3krO
Can you give the read based on before Lukewarm joined and then after Lukewarm joined?

To put names to the people you're talking about, I was suspicious of Word because he was publicly helpful to everyone early on- in particular, telling people how to scumhunt. I suspected he was scum for that reason.
Notscience was nice and encouraging to me specifically, and I ended up liking him more than I should have. I missed scumtells that were obvious in retrospect.
The last three players were myself, Word and Notscience.
Here's the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83818&start=1600

The problem with this is it still meets what Lukewarm said and is manipulative. In both comments you say hour last game. You are using this vague information to justify your read on someone, and using the same argument just flipped to justify.

[VFP]

It's not, both of those thing can be true

And yet both are used to justify a read just reversed.
Why is Pear town to you?

Pear shading you without pushing you as scum or voting concerns me here.

[VFP]

I do think VFP is probably townie.

VOTE: VFP

I guess I'll compromise. I don't think I fos not_mafia anymore.

A bit of a change of heart there?

I can lim Catboi today as it's probably just catboi and Pear with NM as the back up.
608 was just basically trying to get a confirmation of a PR.

VOTE: Catboi

[VFP]

Yes, actually. My previous scumread was wrong, I'm rethinking N_M, I don't buy the wagon on pear whatsoever. My preference would be lukewarm over you since in my view his reasoning is just blatantly scummy but beggars can't be choosers.

Where did you think Marci was softing?

[VFP]

Fir the record as mafia here I probably unvote when I see this and don't press her further so I can hopefully NK her without doc protection.

So you thought that this post was a hint to being a PR?

[VFP]

catboi is tracker .-.
fun
flashwagon pear i guess

Why would you think that Catboi CC Marci here and still want to vote NM?

[VFP]

I'm not CC here.
So Pear is actually town then. Catboi is flipping red here.

[VFP]

Regardless I'm pretty sure this is just a win.
Meuh not visiting makes them town here as they would have been visiting for either the kill or the Rolecop.
Pear being protected means town.
2 PR claims not CC.

This means we have 4 town out of 7 going into night 2.
Scum are only possible to be in me, T3, Catboi, and Lukewarm.

I don't think T3 is scum here so the pool narrows down to me, Catboi, and Lukewarm with T3 as the additional.

NM dies tonight, we have 3 town and a clear on someone. Scum flip today means that we have 4 town out of 6 players.

There's really nothing to try and solve here.

[VFP]

Is it not possible that one scum does both the rolecop ability and the kill? If so, how can you clear Meuh?

My understanding is 1 action per player in newbies.
Unless I'm wrong here, Meuh can't be scum.

[VFP]

The rules allow for multitasking now, I don't know when it changed

Hmmm, that means I'm right with 3 town + 1 most likely town.
But the point is still there I guess, Meuh isn't flipping scum.

[VFP]

Catboi is still the better vote in terms of giving an extra clear with a scum down, but I think it's still a win regardless.
T3 is going to be town here and Catboi / Lukewarm are going to be the scum team.

Just go with that and don't let anyone de rail tomorrow.

[VFP]

whos left in the pool of scum?

t3, catboi and lukewarm?

Catboi and Lukewarm.

[VFP]

Also worth noting, at this point scum might elect to not kill tonight, in order to throw off our attempts to use marci to pseudo-rolecop.

Should have kept this for tomorrow.
But no, NM is always killed tonight.

[VFP]

As I said, as long as you don't divert from Catboi tomorrow I don't overly care.
The reason I say Catboi is there is 100% scum between us 2 and tomorrow is acutally Eliminate correctly or lose.

[VFP]

[*img]Link goes here[/*img]
Remove the *

[VFP]

Major VFP-Lukewarm partner vibes here

Highly plausible.
It's a 66% chance of hitting scum on me right now.

[VFP]

How is that math working? NotMafia, Marci, and Pear are full clear, there is an argument to be made that Meuh is clear, but that still leave me, you, catboi, and T3, no? So 50%.

T3 isn't flipping scum.
3 scum are in me, you, and Catboi.

You should be seeing me and Catboi as scum here.

[VFP]

Why?

I have not seen a reason why he could not be a partner with T3

I feel like I can read T3.

[VFP]

My concern with this post, is that if you do flip town, that would leave the PoE down to me+caboi, which I already know is not true

Then lim Catboi and work it from there.

[VFP]

I was a filthy mafia!

[VFP]

Well tried Marci you did great!
Well done town it was entertaining to watch after my elimination!

[VFP]

Thanks for moddong Lend, happy for the PT to be released.