Newbie 2069: Summertime [game over!]

[StrangeMatter]

Here we go again.
VOTE: Illwei

[StrangeMatter]

So, are only 4 of us talking right now?

[StrangeMatter]

Wow, two scumdays. That is really quite something.

[StrangeMatter]

scumwhatnow

Scum day, it's the day they joined the forum.

[StrangeMatter]

I am wondering how Illwei didn’t seem to know what a scum day is.

[StrangeMatter]

*ahem*
let's. Let's try that again, shall we?

I am wondering how Illwei didn’t seem to know what a scum day is.

Why?

I read this as someone who hasn't heard of scum day before, but it could be read other ways.

[quote="In post 14,
scumwhatnow

[StrangeMatter]

Well, this got serious a lot faster than I thought. It was really not a serious post, and had nothing actually important to say.

[StrangeMatter]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

[StrangeMatter]

Why do you keep asking for Bulge's thoughts?

[StrangeMatter]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

You think both scum would jump on the same thing at the same time?

I meant that it is a completely possible, and while not likely, should not be ignored. Leaving out part of someone's thoughts without a good reason, to me often just comes off as if they're hiding something, or could be actively trying to deceive others.

[StrangeMatter]

Probably, but it's a choice I made and I still stand by what I said in the last post.

It's getting late, so I'll probably be back tomorrow.

[StrangeMatter]

I meant that it is a completely possible, and while not likely, should not be ignored. Leaving out part of someone's thoughts without a good reason, to me often just comes off as if they're hiding something, or could be actively trying to deceive others.

I get that but sometimes you do have to just be logical. It’s not about ignoring it’s just logic. Do you think they are both scum? Just one? Who?

Right now, it's more or less due to their interactions that I think that. But right now, I'm not really sure if either of them are scum right now. I will say that it would look bad if one of them flips red at some point.

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

You think both scum would jump on the same thing at the same time?

I meant that it is a completely possible, and while not likely, should not be ignored. Leaving out part of someone's thoughts without a good reason, to me often just comes off as if they're hiding something, or could be actively trying to deceive others.

I think I quoted this because I have no idea what it means tbh
leaving out a part of your thoughts?[/quote]

Leaving out your thoughts is kind of like pushing someone scummy, but not really explaining why they are pushing that person.

[StrangeMatter]

Right now, it's more or less due to their interactions that I think that. But right now, I'm not really sure if either of them are scum right now.

I will say that it would look bad if one of them flips red at some point.

Aight. And who would it look bad for? What do you think of Roden’s vote on you?

This question is a bit weird. It would look bad for the person who did not get voted. I don't see why you would ask this question if you can figure out the answer without me needing to say it. As for what I think of Roden's vote on me, it's pressure, so its nothing new there. I'm not too sure what they mean by defensive in that post though, which I do find a little weird.

[StrangeMatter]

Also Bakslash not responding to the vote on him is completely NAI right now

Quick question, I've heard the term NAI, but I'm not exactly sure about what it means.

[StrangeMatter]

Double post, but can you explain what it means?

[StrangeMatter]

I definitely don't like ItalianoVD's questions so far. He's been asking questions, but they've been weird and not reasonable questions or even useful.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: ItalianoVD

[StrangeMatter]

I'm wondering, @Italiano, why do you keep asking questions such as asking about people's votes or RVS like they mean something?

[StrangeMatter]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

You think both scum would jump on the same thing at the same time?

I meant that it is a completely possible, and while not likely, should not be ignored. Leaving out part of someone's thoughts without a good reason, to me often just comes off as if they're hiding something, or could be actively trying to deceive others.

what are you referring to in the second sentence here?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

[StrangeMatter]

Right now, it's more or less due to their interactions that I think that. But right now, I'm not really sure if either of them are scum right now.

I will say that it would look bad if one of them flips red at some point.

Aight. And who would it look bad for? What do you think of Roden’s vote on you?

This question is a bit weird. It would look bad for the person who did not get voted. I don't see why you would ask this question if you can figure out the answer without me needing to say it. As for what I think of Roden's vote on me, it's pressure, so its nothing new there. I'm not too sure what they mean by defensive in that post though, which I do find a little weird.

do you really not see the merit in asking people questions in the game of mafia??

pedit - Who is leaving out their thoughts on what?

No, I absolutely do see merit in asking people questions in a game of mafia. It's when the questions aren't reasonable is where I draw a line.

It isn't who in this game is leaving out their thoughts, its more that its not pro town to hide what you think about someone or a situation.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm still waiting on Italiano to answer the question from #112. Really want to know what their thought process was with it.

[StrangeMatter]

Where is everyone right now, I get that discussion is a bit harder with a person VLA, and one has to be replaced, but 6 other people aren't even talking at all. That kind of seems like a waste of a day to have no discussion whatsoever. So can those 6 people explain why they're not talking right now?

[StrangeMatter]

UNVOTE: ItalianoVD

Holding off on this slot for right now.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm wondering, @Italiano, why do you keep asking questions such as asking about people's votes or RVS like they mean something?

This feels like an opportunistic jump

Idk abt here but I've heard RVS reffered to as RQS as well, random questions or whatnot. anything in RVS is more useful than nothing, and I think everything means more than nothing.

Not sure about what you thought that made this an opportunistic jump. I just wanted them to answer that question, and got what I think was a pretty good response from it, so I'm happy to back off.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm still waiting on Italiano to answer the question from #112. Really want to know what their thought process was with it.

Spoiler:

I'm wondering, @Italiano, why do you keep asking questions such as asking about people's votes or RVS like they mean something?

I ask questions the way I do because I not only want to just sort players I want to know and see how they think. I wanna know why people do the things they do or don't do the things they do. I want to know how players think and what's going on in their head, not just why they did something. I usually do this with RQS but sometimes I do it the way you see it here. It just depends on how I'm feeling. Some people think it's weird or suspicious but hey I'm not playing for them, I'm playing for myself and it works for me because I've caught plenty of scum/wolves that way, but it also helps me accurately pinpoint town players so finding scum is easier.

tell me what you got out of it?

I got out of that why they asked that question, and a little bit of a look into how they play. That, is usually pretty helpful.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm going to reread more into Nora and Roden's arguments more right now.

[StrangeMatter]

I quoted the wrong post, I meant to quote post #158 instead of post #157, so that's my bad.

[StrangeMatter]

It's pretty much what I thought was good about post #152 as well.

[StrangeMatter]

It isn't who in this game is leaving out their thoughts, its more that its not pro town to hide what you think about someone or a situation.

I was asking specifically about 52. what prompted you to bring that up in the first place?

Which part are you referring to right now?

[StrangeMatter]

when you made 52, you were talking about me and Noraa at first. why did you then start talking about "Leaving out part of someone's thoughts"?

Most of it was just trying to be trustworthy considering past experiences of having others not trust me, and Town being in complete chaos with nobody working together.

[StrangeMatter]

I think there's one detail that I think should've been brought up, but has The Buldge actually pushed a wagon on Roden to eliminate them?

[StrangeMatter]

I think there's one detail that I think should've been brought up, but has The Buldge actually pushed a wagon on Roden to eliminate them?

that's what i thought as well -- i thought the reasonings on roden implied that bulge highly scumreads roden for x and x

i give +1 townping for this thought process

I think you misunderstood what I meant to say. I'm wondering why there's a thought that The Bulge is scumreading them, yet they aren't actually pushing to get them voted. Generally, from what I've read so far, I've haven't seen them really wagon despite what I have read from most of their posts. Wouldn't scum who is taking something like voting an easy person like Rodan, and lean into that?

[StrangeMatter]

why do you think i thought this was a tvt situtation lol -- it just feels like roden frustrated town and bulge is trying there best to solve their allignment. also its more of nai imo -- there are better reasons to town/scum read them but votes isn't something u rlly look at until u look at hammers / voting patterns

To me, it's not about the votes themselves, its looking like they want to vote someone out or not, and getting other people join the wagon. That, is what I was really looking for, which I did not really see. From what you've said before, you made it seem pretty ambiguous what you meant for a few of those posts, which prompted said questions.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm going to reread more into Nora and Roden's arguments more right now.

I'd love to hear your opinion on it!

From what I see, these conversations feel very Town vs Town, where both have made posts that ping me as Town. However, I'm very on the fence when it comes to Roden's defensiveness, especially when they conversed with you, and then Buldge. It looks kind of scummy, but at the same time I'm not really able to read anything from said defensiveness, as it can go either way for me. I'm just going to leave them as a somewhat small Townlean for right now.

[StrangeMatter]

Unless of course that's the plan

...Pardon?

[StrangeMatter]

Are you talking about GrandpaMo and their TR on Roden right now

Also, @ItalianoVD, what do you think about the Roden slot?

[StrangeMatter]

Could you point out what you see that makes me one of the slots that has scum @Noraa? I was wondering about post #257 and I would really like to hear it from you directly.

[StrangeMatter]

So many people have swapped out, it's crazy.

Also, hello.

[StrangeMatter]

Right now the person I'm the least certain on anything right now is Bimblesticks. Really want them to participate in the conversations more to read anything conclusive on them.

[StrangeMatter]

Im about to be full on vla until the 28th. for real this time.
I dont like grandpa mo anymore. yay life is beautiful.
Roden, man you just really set me on fire with every post. Everytime I start thinking you might be town, you come back and light the whole fire up again. oh well. not my problem until I'm back from exams.

Bulge and Cabd are totally different things. Bulge is 100% town and even if he is scum, I'll be able to catch him.

Cabd will steamroll our asses if he is scum.

Bulge is 0% of a threat compared to Cabd.

So I take that you've had experience with them before?

[StrangeMatter]

@Noraa could you give some insight please? Considering it sounds like you've played with them before.

[StrangeMatter]

dont like grandpa mo anymore. yay life is beautiful.

can you explain why? i think i will townread you more for this -- i doubt you as scum would be scumreading me here, i don't think you would take that risk especially when we already had the same thought process of the voting pool between italiono, illwee, bimblesticks,

and that other 4th person i forgot(going on top of my head)

Hang on, who do you mean by the 4th person? And, how certain are you that they are scum?

[StrangeMatter]

@Roden I do want to hear your thoughts on other slots.

[StrangeMatter]

I think there's enough consequences considering what's happening with this conversation right now. I think this has been less and less helpful the longer everyone keeps arguing like this. So can we please move on?

[StrangeMatter]

So is that the third or fourth person replaced.

[StrangeMatter]

Hello Ydrasse.

You've been watching this game for a while, right? Can we hear what you have to say about other people?

[StrangeMatter]

My question to you is, why DON'T you care about the votes on you? As town, you want to get enough information as possible, so if you are getting voted by people who may possibly be scum, you would want to address why they're voting you so you could possibly sort out the alignments of your votes

Gotta be completely honest I don't follow this one bit tbh.

I think it might be the fact that I can't comprehend the statement "enough information as possible" tbh. Because. that...just...doesn't...
well.

They say why they're voting on me tbh, so why would me engaging in that matter at all? If I feel the need to defend then I will but to be frank, I don't have the energy right now, and I don't see how defending myself would help me sort them.

If I may, I'd like to answer this. Sorting is not defending, and is more like gauging someone's alignment from their responses and such.

[StrangeMatter]

I have a question about some terms right before I put out my thoughts on the game so far. What is TSTBS and IIOA? Those are terms I see but not really something very new to me.

[StrangeMatter]

Ack, mistakes were made typing on a phone. It is something new to me.

[StrangeMatter]

I am on mobile so just putting thoughts out here.

SR -> SL -> Null -> TL -> TR

None (not too sure yet). Illwei, Bimblesticks, Cabd. Ydrasse. Roden, GrandpaMo, piisirational, The Buldge. None (Seeing who’s consistent right now)

Periods separate each sections. This is not concrete and will be subject to change.

Sorry if it seems rushed, going to put main thoughts in later when I am not using a mobile phone.

[StrangeMatter]

Are we all scumreading Illwee?

StrangeMatter have you explained your scumread? Where did YOUR scumread start from... ?

because it feels like me and piirational are the only one who actually had a geninue scumcase on illwee. (other than bimblesticks )

@strange r u able to scumcase them, WITHOUT saying anything we had already said -- unique info that illwee could be scum?

I just realized I made a mistake writing and rushing out my thoughts. To me they're actually null, due to me not reading into them much from the beginning. Plus, I doubt I could make a scumcase without saying anything already said anyways. I just now switched back to a computer, so I'm going to read into them and come back to this. I'll admit that this is a bit scummy, though.

[StrangeMatter]

Actually, I have a quick question for @Illwei. How much do you know about playing Mafia?

[StrangeMatter]

This is important that they answer. I'm not going to answer why I'm asking this question.

[StrangeMatter]

I think this should be brought up. I noticed this but if Illwei has a mafia partner, they're either intentionally not helping them, or they don't have a partner at all.

[StrangeMatter]

illwei had a really good post early on that i feel is uh, pretty hard for a new player to make as scum. what's the reason they're scumread?

I'm not sure I'm seeing what you're seeing. I do think from their current playstyle that it seems less likely they're scum, and just low effort town.

[StrangeMatter]

Well that's no good.

[StrangeMatter]

I feel like Pii is indidually towny, but with Illwee -- they seem scummy.

I have a question (anyone can answer this) ... How do I as town, approach a sitatuion for this? Do I overall townread them because they had posts that showed their towniess? Or do I scumread them overall, because associative with Illwee -- they could have been just sheeping me to follow a bus on them.

Can I see what pings you as a possibility of those two being scum together?

[StrangeMatter]

I feel like Pii is indidually towny, but with Illwee -- they seem scummy.

I have a question (anyone can answer this) ... How do I as town, approach a sitatuion for this? Do I overall townread them because they had posts that showed their towniess? Or do I scumread them overall, because associative with Illwee -- they could have been just sheeping me to follow a bus on them.

Can I see what pings you as a possibility of those two being scum together?

Can you rephrase your question? Or explain what you mean? Because I am having a hard time understanding this.

Can you please point out what makes it seem like they are sheeping you into a bus?

[StrangeMatter]

I don't think I will say now.

I don't have a reason to say it now.

Is that okay? Or are you going to force me say it smh.

I just had a question -- since I am interacting with you now.

Do you agree or disagree? Or you don't have the info to tell.

I don't have the information to give a reasonable answer to this. I kind of wish you would say now, but you'd better give a good reason if Illwei ends up flipping green.

[StrangeMatter]

I don't think I will say now.

I don't have a reason to say it now.

Is that okay? Or are you going to force me say it smh.

I just had a question -- since I am interacting with you now.

Do you agree or disagree? Or you don't have the info to tell.

I don't have the information to give a reasonable answer to this. I kind of wish you would say now, but you'd better give a good reason if Illwei ends up flipping green.

Okay so I thought you would have said. So now you tell me, how do you expect me for you to tell you how I think about pairs / associations if you aren't willing to look at it for yourself? What makes you think I will tell you now?

Because remember, YOU asked me that question regarding pings about a bus. Prove to me that if I were to give you a series of text regarding a possible bus, then how will use that information to your advantage, as town of course. Unless you are scum, feel free to explain either way and give me assurance that you are scum.

I'd analyze what they are giving to me, and use that to gauge if they are Town or Scum, based off what is given. If it seems what information is given doesn't seem right or is very inadequate, then I'd put into question the person giving out that information in the first place.

As for that very scummy post, I'd like to first address that I don't scumread others pushing them, but definitely think it's still something should be questioned about. If you think that is chainsaw, then fine, but it isn't, and is only what you think from what I've said.

I do not want to deal with this right now, so I'm going to come back to this game later.

[StrangeMatter]

What post are you referring about?

The post I am talking about is what Cabd thought about #468. Which that, is about the string of posts that was talked about the possible scumteam between Illwei and Piisirrational.

Also, I'm kind of interested in what morph's newbie model is, and what it looks like that Illwei fits into it.

[StrangeMatter]

I made an error, but it's talking about Cabd's thoughts from #468 not whatever mess the above post is.

[StrangeMatter]

At this point, we have only one day left to vote, might as well get a consensus and vote right?

[StrangeMatter]

Yes.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm not voting because I don't have a person who I personally want to vote out right now. I am not suggesting we go ahead and go through with the Illwei vote, either. Just saying that we should vote someone by the end of D1, and not liming someone is probably a mistake today.

As for what I think of Illwei, I kind of find post #308, #310, and #370 as a little odd to me. He says that he does scumread Bimblesticks (#308), and answers with a quote on a post I made (#310). Then, he just gives a really awkward answer to GrandpaMo's question by saying it was a statement (#370). To me, they aren't ticking any boxes that fits any type of scum outside of one that just sits back and goes under the radar, and is just ignored for most of the game. However, I'm not sure really whether they'll flip green or red right now. I'm not putting them off the table for right now.

I'm still wondering and restating the question from what GrandpaMo had said already, but @Illwei, can you point to what makes Bimblesticks scum?

[StrangeMatter]

I read Roden as a townlean from some of the posts that they have made, but I'm just going to reiterate that I'm on the fence about their defensiveness indicating scum or town. After that I really haven't read Roden/Your slot as much so far. So far I've seen reasonable questions being brought up, so I'm leaving it as a townlean for right now. However, it will change accordingly depending on what I see from you right now.

[StrangeMatter]

@The Buldge, can I ask why I'm (what I'm assuming from this list) one of your scumreads right now?

[StrangeMatter]

Can I say, I really dislike Sang Frod's D1 Cop claim just in general?

[StrangeMatter]

Okay, so you don't think Bimble is scum, so then who would you put on the table as scum then?

[StrangeMatter]

I can, and I read that wrong.

[StrangeMatter]

That's E-1 from what I've counted and I'm not hammering Grandpa.

Still going with this slot, I kind of want to see what comes from this right now.

VOTE: Illwei

[StrangeMatter]

hmm

[StrangeMatter]

I’ve been thinking, who would likely have pushed to night kill Lukewarm?

[StrangeMatter]

Also, I seem to forget, but what is did you claim exactly?

[StrangeMatter]

If you’re what you say you are, have you gotten any results?

[StrangeMatter]

i think i want to grill cabd today. i for sure need to reread the game before going anywhere specific, but this is i think where i want to start. strangematter is still reading very scummy to me but my instincts tell me not today.

VOTE: Cabd

Why does this post give me vibes that you are setting things up for eliminating me later?

[StrangeMatter]

Absolutely not hammering this. We still have 3 days so can we please use it before we hammer? I get there’s almost no discussion but still.

[StrangeMatter]

Why do you want to hammer Cabd right now?

[StrangeMatter]

Ok calling it right now. I

HC Mason

. So sang froid fakeclaimed Cop, and there's two things that could've happened.

1. Sang froid is scum, and fakeclaimed hoping to not be CCed.

2. Sang froid is town, and fakeclaimed to try to get scum to NK themselves.

If it was the second, they would have taken the risk trying to get NKed, or end up helping scum by narrowing down the pool of people, and then could easily get them blamed and elminated. To me, trying to bait a NK is not really worth the risk of scum calling a pretty basic bluff.

If it was the former, scum Sang froid could do a lot more that could benefit the scumteam. To name a few, they could confirm one of their own, or get Town to miselim a town player, or elim one scum and confirm the other.

Right now, I don't see much that doesn't just point to anti-town or something a decently skilled scum could pull off. Not to mention saying Cabd will be revealed as scum (Implying this was an inspect). So I'm voting this and am parked.

VOTE: sang froid

[StrangeMatter]

So do you have any opinions of a Mason claim, and a Cop claim in the same game? Also, what makes outting Cabd more important to lim today?

[StrangeMatter]

Wow, that was an unexpected kill.

[StrangeMatter]

Just saying it now, me and T3 are Masons, no point in hiding that now. With 5 people we have one mislim. So obviously scum is in Buldge, Ydrasse, and Illwei.

I’ve been so wrong about half my assumptions with my partner it’s so bad.

[StrangeMatter]

Illwei, do you have any reads?

[StrangeMatter]

Well, there's a 2 in 3 chance we can win this. Still, we have 7 days and that's more than enough time, better to use it. Speaking of which, I was thinking, wouldn't the better scum play there have been to have us mislim sang froid, who had the attention of two Masons?

[StrangeMatter]

Sorry, 1/3 and then 1/2 if we miselim.

[StrangeMatter]

It absolutely is a bad play if you're town tbh. I can say from the only game I've finished, but self hammering usually isn't a good play

[StrangeMatter]

Siteflaked?

[StrangeMatter]

Fair, I'll hammer this then. Buldge focusing a lot on Cabd elim could've been a hard bussing attempt, but I'm not sure why he would eliminate Sang froid.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: The Buldge

[StrangeMatter]

This needed to go for me.

[StrangeMatter]

At some point we’ll get win right?

Honestly, after all that I really need to rethink everything because I was wrong about everything this game.

[StrangeMatter]

Been thinking like “optimal” scum, but honestly it’s too good to do anyways.

[StrangeMatter]

Maybe I should set a lower bar for people’s scumplays. Besides, to me scumreading off catching scummy things said can catch a scum SE or Newbie, but is less likely to catch an SE.

[StrangeMatter]

You got eliminated because you joke CCed a fake Cop claim.

Also, you were both Town, and that’s just sad.

[StrangeMatter]

I kind of knew I could get away with it because I could claim Mason and possibly confirm my partner or save myself.

[StrangeMatter]

I think you misread Lukewarm. I did it because you got townread, and you were also right (but obviously knew I was Town) that I wasn’t working with anyone as a VT, and seeing if it does or doesn’t work. Though honestly I couldn’t have seen a pairing from Cabd and Illwei that game, or I might’ve missed it.