Newbie 694 (over)

Xtoxm · Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:48 am

Confirm.

Xtoxm · Post Post #13 (isolation #1) » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:58 am

England.

Xtoxm · Post Post #33 (isolation #2) » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:07 am

Yeh, random voting is pretty much standard around here.

Doesn't mean you have to though

Xtoxm · Post Post #35 (isolation #3) » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:26 am

We could.

Ther've been a couple instances of "They lived happily ever after".

However, the mod tends to get annoyed. (See, Cow, I remembered you don't like swearing in your games!!

)

It also raises the question "Why the hell did you join?".

Xtoxm · Post Post #36 (isolation #4) » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:29 am

You know, the only real reason I called you Cow was because of your avatar. I know that's not where it came from for you, I saw your sig...but it did for me.

I'm totally going to refer to you as Jiggly from now on!

Xtoxm · Post Post #38 (isolation #5) » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:52 am

Oh?

They why ask "Why can't we all get along"?

That's a backtracking scum if I ever saw it.

You better have a good explanation.

Xtoxm · Post Post #40 (isolation #6) » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:05 am

Nor do I...It just kinda happens, you know. The game kinda drifts into seriousness.

I don't think random voting is necessary for it, but something definately has to start discussion somwhere down the line or there is no game.

Xtoxm · Post Post #42 (isolation #7) » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:43 am

What's wrong with having the desire to kill people?

Xtoxm · Post Post #52 (isolation #8) » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:51 am

Apart from the fact it was blatamtly obvious, do you not think I would have voted if I was being serious?

Xtoxm · Post Post #68 (isolation #9) » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:41 am

I say we have a party while he's gone.

Gieff and Elen do both have valid points to some extent.

Random voting is just as standard really, you shouldn't think much of it. There's nothing wrong with not random voting, either. Note I didn't.

But what I really wanted to comment on was the logic thing. Yes, there is logic in mafia, with use of power roles etc - But largely, I believe Mafia is not a game of logic. Emotion is often a factor, I find. Although yes, random voting doesn't get you far on it's own, it's just a starter really, nothing more.

Xtoxm · Post Post #70 (isolation #10) » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:52 am

That is correct.

When I was newbie found the best approach was to ingore the concept of WIFOM altogether and just go for getting reads off of what people said.

Thinking about WIFOM and trying to apply it to a situation in the game generally just leads no where and gives you a headache, I find.

Xtoxm · Post Post #72 (isolation #11) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:33 am

There have been games that started perfectly fine without random voting. It is by no means necessary for discussion to start. People just do it because it's always done.

Your example is horribly inaccurate by the way, that is just one of many possibilities, I could say the same about random voting:

Vote A because I don't like your av.

Vote B because you smell.

Uhhh...So what do we do now?

It's the exact same example as yours, and it's horribly inaccurate.

Xtoxm · Post Post #74 (isolation #12) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:59 am

We missed you very much, Uri. We didn't do anything without in your abscene. We just sat around looking at each other glumly, waiting for your return.

I agree that the disussion about RV is unlikely to be very productive, but I felt the need to get my point across.

Xtoxm · Post Post #79 (isolation #13) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:43 am

I think Uri responded to that question well, and better than I could have.

That's pretty much what i'm saying, it's just hard to put it into words.

Xtoxm · Post Post #81 (isolation #14) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:43 pm

I'd just assumed he was going away, ie no access.

Xtoxm · Post Post #88 (isolation #15) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:40 am

Asking someone else to create discussion strikes me as silly. I'm not sure if it's scummy.

I will

Vote Militant

.

I think that last post sounds kind of like he's forcing himself to say something.

Xtoxm · Post Post #91 (isolation #16) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:11 am

Well, i'm not sure about the validity of your second point, but it is discounted anyway by the fact Militant has already played in several games, and is ranked goon.

Xtoxm · Post Post #94 (isolation #17) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:54 am

Post count solely.

Townsperson: 0-50
Goon: 50-100
Mafia Scum: 100+
Anything Else: 100+

Xtoxm · Post Post #98 (isolation #18) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:18 pm

I agree with Elen there as policy. However what I find in most games is whenever I attack someone for lurking, I get lynched for it. Aparantly it's scummy. Imo it's just piss annoying and adds to the problems of games before more inactive...

Xtoxm · Post Post #100 (isolation #19) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:24 pm

*Games becoming more inactive

No, that is a false statement.

Xtoxm · Post Post #120 (isolation #20) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:06 am

Inf's recent posts strike me as odd, even coming from someone not used to the pace of games here.

Xtoxm · Post Post #122 (isolation #21) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:37 am

Now that the game has kicked off, i'd like to see him come into the game more, there are a couple things to comment on, rather than just vote him. If it continues in this fashion though, I shall feel the need to vote him.

Xtoxm · Post Post #124 (isolation #22) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:33 am

No, all town power's want to stay hidden on Day One, really. There are a couple of exceptions, but certainly not in this game.

Xtoxm · Post Post #129 (isolation #23) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:28 am

Inf, what do you think Mafia is about, and why did you sign up for this game? - This is a genuine question.

Xtoxm · Post Post #131 (isolation #24) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:39 am

He was making a point, it's fair enough.

But yes - In this setup VT's shouldn't claim power's at all, imo.

Power's only want to give up their role if absolutley necesary to prevent their lynch, with the expection of a cop with a guilty, who would claim it right away.

Xtoxm · Post Post #132 (isolation #25) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:40 am

That and massclaim, ofcourse. Usually done around lylo.

Xtoxm · Post Post #160 (isolation #26) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:44 am

Elennaro wrote:
Unvote

If realityfan is going to post in time, I think he/she has some questions to answer. But that seems to be unlikely. I don't want his/her probable replacement to inherit a vote he/she didn't earn, so I'm unvoting.

Bad philosphy.

If a previous owner of a role has earnt a vote, getting replaced should not redeem the role.

Xtoxm · Post Post #166 (isolation #27) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:30 am

Fair enough. I just noticed a bad comment and made a point.

Xtoxm · Post Post #194 (isolation #28) » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:35 am

Owe this game a bit of time. Will do so tonight/tomorrow.

Xtoxm · Post Post #220 (isolation #29) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:32 am

Mmk skimmed through most stuff, not that long, was worried it would be!

Random Vote: Xtoxm for his cool avatar.

<3

On the cop with guilty - I was refering to this game only. Sometimes in larger games he might want to hold onto it.

We do not know, however if a cop has a guilty he certainly wants to get it out there right away. Then other peoples decide...

About Militant - Yes, I did find it a bit forced, although it was for the most part just trying to start things off. I have been unimpressed with Inf since I brought him up, hence shall change.

Unvote Vote Inf

Xtoxm · Post Post #238 (isolation #30) » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:00 pm

Oooh, I take that as a scumtell.

Why did you not want to "jump straight in with a vote"?

Xtoxm · Post Post #260 (isolation #31) » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:38 am

I'm not sus of Ham.

Anyway, i've got my top 2 suspects, and i'm ready to lynch.

Xtoxm · Post Post #263 (isolation #32) » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:16 am

I believe I explained my reasons for finding them suspicous well.

People often moan at me for not giving copius amounts of content in my posts. I don't feel there's anything more to say.

Xtoxm · Post Post #265 (isolation #33) » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:47 am

Xtoxm · Post Post #268 (isolation #34) » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:04 pm

No, i'm here to help intorduce you to the game/site, by playing how I normally play.

I cannot post something which is not there.

If I have said all I have to say, what are you expecting me to post?

Xtoxm · Post Post #270 (isolation #35) » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:43 am

I have 2 suspects currently, Inf and Over. This implies I think the rest of town are town, and although I have an order of suspicion it is not beneficial to state it.

Xtoxm · Post Post #271 (isolation #36) » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:43 am

hambargarz wrote:Last game when someone said something like this about me, I was first NK
thanks alot Xtoxm

You're welcome

Xtoxm · Post Post #273 (isolation #37) » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:45 am

Inf's recent posts strike me as odd, even coming from someone not used to the pace of games here.

About Militant - Yes, I did find it a bit forced, although it was for the most part just trying to start things off. I have been unimpressed with Inf since I brought him up, hence shall change.

Oooh, I take that as a scumtell.

Why did you not want to "jump straight in with a vote"?

Also, it seems I never mentioned, but there was one post from Inf, where he expresses that he is suprised at being voted for not contributing on Day One. It struck me as coming from a surprised scum, who thought he could lurk it.

Xtoxm · Post Post #298 (isolation #38) » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:59 am

Here. Still support lynch of either those 2. Game is starting to stagnate.

Xtoxm · Post Post #314 (isolation #39) » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:05 am

Yeh, waiting for a claim is a good idea.

Xtoxm · Post Post #352 (isolation #40) » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:54 am

No worries

All of us get busy sometimes. I'm fairly busy atm, too. I'll have more time when term ends.

Xtoxm · Post Post #355 (isolation #41) » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:23 pm

I've contibuted plenty. It's only in the last week or two that the game is starting to actually get away from me, but even then I don't think by much.

Xtoxm · Post Post #382 (isolation #42) » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:52 am

I'd rather lynch West, but with a VT claim:

Unvote Vote Dipstick

Xtoxm · Post Post #394 (isolation #43) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:22 pm

Sorry, guys. I hammered because he claimed vanilla, amd theats geberally what you do wiht a vanilla claim. Trust me, i'm town. I've just got back froma night out and i'm pissed, so you can trust me wjen I say i'm town.

Xtoxm · Post Post #396 (isolation #44) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:28 am

Lol, what's wrong with trusting me?

Well, I basically just thought the day had gone on long enough, and then he claimed vanilla, and with vanilla claims they often just get lynched anyway, and I sometimes push for lynches of claimed VT's just because they've claimed. So I just hammered. I thought there was a good chance he was scum. You guys put him at L-1, which should mean you are happy for him to be lynched. I find that very hypocritical of Gieff, when he L-1'd earlier himself. (I am aware he was not the final L-1 voter)

Anyway, as I was before, i'm still sus of West. Not sure about my 2nd suspect yet. I've got a couple of speculative idea's but nothing I feel worth mentioning yet.

Xtoxm · Post Post #401 (isolation #45) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:59 am

Looking at it from a purely statistical viewpoint (which you are), that extra hour and a half changes a lot, you know. But looking at it like that isn't useful anyway.

Yes, I believe that was the first i'd checked this game for a few days. Usually I don't have unlimited time to check my games, and I just check the ones that have me more interested/are at a climax.

Xtoxm · Post Post #403 (isolation #46) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:49 am

Well, I certainly don't have a problem following up on my suspicions.

And I think your summary is a little misrepresenting, however you may have a point. I may have contributed less to this game than I thought I have/is acceptable.

My suspicion of West comes from suspicion of Inf, and not having seen anything to make me change this. However I admit suspicions of Inf were not rock solid, he

was

a flaking newbie after all. This doesn't relieve him, though.

Xtoxm · Post Post #407 (isolation #47) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:53 am

I'm just going to go ahead and say where I stand as to my thoughts right now.

Gieff - Town. He's doing a lot of work, and a lot of stuff he's done looks to me genuine attempts to scum hunt and help town. I would find it hard to see him as scum.

SP - Now that I look, his introduction post just looks like fluff not talking about much, and he hasn't really said anything else, so that's kinda scummy, however Uri was giving a strong town read...I will leave this as Nuetral for now.

CC - Now that I think about it, I had really just been assuming him town, becuse I wasn't finding him scummy and I had other suspects. He is talking a lot, but I think I could see him doing it as scum too. Overall I don't really get much either on him. There are a couple things I would usually expect from town, but i'm not sure. Nuetral.

Ham - For same reasons as before, I find him town, and I haven't seen anything that's made me want to change my mind about this. Town.

West - I will just say what I think of West here, disregarding Inf. I will admit i've been tunneling somewhat and i've not really been looking at what he's been saying (beyond the surface). His entry looks poor to me, puts off commenting on the game...I recall this compounded my supicion. However now I look, it doesn't look so bad. I have the impression in my mind that West struggles to conribute effectivley as scum (I think from browsing a couple of games he was in), and i've seen him flake as scum. His posting is fairly scattered though. Overall i'm not sure what to make of him. Why do you keep asking why I find you scummy?

Clock - Initially I wasn't suspecting him, but now I am a bit more. The nightkill suits Clock, from the way I see, although that's probably not a useful thing to be thinking about.

(I've just noticed new posts, and i'd like to say - Gieff, what the fuck are you on about? How did my emotion have

anything

to do with the D1 lynch?)

Xtoxm · Post Post #408 (isolation #48) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:54 am

Ok I cut that short in the end as I was getitng distracted and lost my line of thought, I just decided to fuck it and hit submit.

Xtoxm · Post Post #412 (isolation #49) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:05 am

Downsides to a long day:

Game stagnates, people get bored. This can lead to lynches that aren't fully as considered as earlier on. Someone did the maths and worked out that the optimal length for D1 was around 7/8 pages. I remember reading this somewhere in the discussion section.

Xtoxm · Post Post #413 (isolation #50) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:05 am

It also tends to cause deadline lynches, which generally aren't so useful as non-dealdine lynches.

Xtoxm · Post Post #414 (isolation #51) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:07 am

GIEFF wrote:
Xtoxm wrote:Gieff, what the fuck are you on about? How did my emotion have anything to do with the D1 lynch?)
@Xtoxm; I was referencing our earlier discussion of using logic vs. using emotion, as quoted below. I didn't see much logic presented for your vote against Dipstick, so I assumed that emotion was the primary factor for suspecting him (if you are town). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Xtoxm wrote: Gieff and Elen do both have valid points to some extent.

Random voting is just as standard really, you shouldn't think much of it. There's nothing wrong with not random voting, either. Note I didn't.

But what I really wanted to comment on was the logic thing. Yes, there is logic in mafia, with use of power roles etc - But largely, I believe Mafia is not a game of logic. Emotion is often a factor, I find. Although yes, random voting doesn't get you far on it's own, it's just a starter really, nothing more.

How are you defining Emotion and Logic?

Xtoxm · Post Post #415 (isolation #52) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:10 am

Well it's mainly creeping in as I need to find a new 2nd suspect, and I think the kill suits him. But having taking a closer look at this game tonight i'm not really as sure of anything as I was before.

Xtoxm · Post Post #421 (isolation #53) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:09 pm

GIEFF wrote:
Xtoxm wrote:
GIEFF wrote:
Xtoxm wrote:Gieff, what the fuck are you on about? How did my emotion have anything to do with the D1 lynch?)
@Xtoxm; I was referencing our earlier discussion of using logic vs. using emotion, as quoted below. I didn't see much logic presented for your vote against Dipstick, so I assumed that emotion was the primary factor for suspecting him (if you are town). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Xtoxm wrote: Gieff and Elen do both have valid points to some extent.

Random voting is just as standard really, you shouldn't think much of it. There's nothing wrong with not random voting, either. Note I didn't.

But what I really wanted to comment on was the logic thing. Yes, there is logic in mafia, with use of power roles etc - But largely, I believe Mafia is not a game of logic. Emotion is often a factor, I find. Although yes, random voting doesn't get you far on it's own, it's just a starter really, nothing more.
How are you defining Emotion and Logic?
A better question is how are YOU defining emotion, as you are the one who used the word first. Here are my thoughts, though.

Logic: Determine who is scum based on logical induction, deduction, and reasoning.
Emotion: Determining who is scum based on instinct and general gut feelings.

Do you agree? And does my post about you using emotion to cast your vote now make more sense?

Also, are you unable to provide your reasons for starting to find CR more suspicious (that you alluded to in your post 47), or was the NK choice the only factor?

Yes it does (make more sense). Thanks.

Yes, I pretty much agree with that. Yes, generally Emotion is what I use, (i'm sure I said this earlier), but Logic>Emotion (usually), but there simply hasn't been an opportunity to use any Logic yet. There have been no cop results etc, and there hasn't really been a great deal to draw solid conclusions from in terms of the lynch. I think the line between Logic and Emotion gets very thin, though. Rarely is there a case made purely on Logic...

Xtoxm · Post Post #422 (isolation #54) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:10 pm

Westbrook_Owns_U wrote:
Xtoxm wrote: Why do you keep asking why I find you scummy?
Because you keep stating that you find me the most suspicious and yet you never give a real reason as to why I'm suspicious NOW, just why Inf was suspicious.

You are the same role, and that suspicion is one and the same.

Xtoxm · Post Post #424 (isolation #55) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:13 pm

Xtoxm wrote:Well it's mainly creeping in as I need to find a new 2nd suspect, and I think the kill suits him. But having taking a closer look at this game tonight i'm not really as sure of anything as I was before.

Xtoxm · Post Post #425 (isolation #56) » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:20 pm

With Inf, I felt he was scum who thought he could cruise through the first day and let someone else get lynched without having to do anything. He didn't give any opinions, just went with the crowd and said you can't get info on D1.

Xtoxm · Post Post #443 (isolation #57) » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:57 am

Why was my hammer scummy? Please explain. I don't see it.

Sorry if i'm missing anything, been quite busy last couple of days...Just moved back home from uni for xmas!

Xtoxm · Post Post #446 (isolation #58) » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:49 pm

hambargarz wrote:It was scummy because there was still alot of time left before deadline.

That's not a reason. You don't hang around waiting for deadline once a lynch has been decided on.

Xtoxm · Post Post #451 (isolation #59) » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:06 pm

I think i'm suspicious of enough of CR to

Vote CR

.

Xtoxm · Post Post #460 (isolation #60) » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:48 pm

Ham is right...Everyone has constant playstyle traits. Also, that is far too small a pool...If you had him doing that as scum, then a completely contrasting voting style as town, you may have a case...But still, I don't think voting style is really useful for scumhunting in the first place...Not on it's own, anyway.

Xtoxm · Post Post #463 (isolation #61) » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:21 pm

I want to have a similar discussion with Xtoxm, but he refuses to answer my questions.

This is not true.

If I have missed anyhting it is not intential. What would you like to ask me?

Xtoxm · Post Post #464 (isolation #62) » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:24 pm

Don't expect to get a good reaction from me talking to me like that. It will have the opposite effect. I might take a look at the rest of your post tomorrow.

Xtoxm · Post Post #486 (isolation #63) » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:22 pm

Yeh. (Have actually been less active due to christmas)

But i'm not scum. You probably are. I'm probably going to be lynched today.

Try and take a look at stuff (real) tomorrow.

Xtoxm · Post Post #491 (isolation #64) » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:15 am

For the second time, what reasons did you give for finding ham town?

Well the way he's acted looks like genuine pro-town interests, and genuine attempts to scumhunt. I'm not sure if I can explain it much better than that. Along with a few small things along the way that make me think he's town. Suffice to say, he has me convinced he's town, and at this point I trust him.

Why did you vote for ClockworkRuse?

Well, not just for the night-kill, also looking back over his posts, when I initially hadn't suspected him, I found I wasn't really seeing much from him. He hadn't done anything directly scummy, as such, which is why I wouldn't have noticed first time round, but I didn't see anything that really made me think he was town either. This, along with my nightkill reasoning (which is only a back-up, really) is when I initially mentioned my suspicion of him. Shortly after, I decided to vote him. I can't remember if this was because I hadn't found anywhere better to put it, or because I disliked a reaction of his. Possibly a mixture of both. His subsequent kick-back looks construed to me, I think he's scum and he's attacking me because he knows i'm largely viewed as scummy, and he can easily get me mislynched, so there's no point in trying to do anything else.

Night-kill thing. It's really not that big of a deal, and it pretty much applies to me just as much, but I wasn't expecting that as a kill, I think someone picked up a cop-tell from him, so expect it more from an experienced player like CR, whereas a pair of newbie-scum I would more expect to kill a vocal player. I can see CR being more comfortable in that kind of a situation.

Xtoxm · Post Post #498 (isolation #65) » Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:18 pm

Lol. whatever scum. That's BS. I didn't post anywhere for like 3 days, jsut boxing day.

Lynch the scum.

Xtoxm · Post Post #524 (isolation #66) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:35 am

GIEFF wrote:
CarnCarn wrote:Basically, I just elaborated on what you said.
You elaborated on a detail that was not at all relevant to the point I was trying to make, which was about Clockwork, not about you.

Do you think it's odd that Clockwork focused on you instead of on Westbrook? If so, why did you choose to focus on explaining your reasoning rather than on why Clockwork didn't focus on Westbrook, especially after having been accused of having a blind spot for Westbrook earlier on Day 2?

Still waiting on Xtoxm and ham to answer my post 506. How many games are you in at the moment, Xtoxm?

Oh sorry, didn't notice. Only had time to glance at this one in the last few days. I'm alive in 4 games right now. I'll respond to 506 another time, as i'm tired and hungover right now.

Xtoxm · Post Post #525 (isolation #67) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:36 am

Happy new year btw guys!

Xtoxm · Post Post #528 (isolation #68) » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:38 am

Xtoxm, if this is really why you find hambargarz pro-town, why didn't you say so in post 407 (when you said the exact same thing about me), instead of implying you had already given different reasons, when you had in fact given no reasoning at all?

Well, I knew i'd already discussed my thoughts on Ham. I thought there was no need to say more. I guess there was.

Is your point just that you haven't seen him do anything scummy?

No, certainly not. It is that he looks town.

Xtoxm, do you have any comment on the points I have brought up about ham?

I have to admit that I have not read them. You post a lot...I'll take a look at them (probably after this post) and see if I have anyhting to say.

Xtoxm, if you feel that neither player has shown much scummy or pro-town behavior, why are you so sure ham is town and CR is scum?

My answering of previous question should clear this up.

Xtoxm, could you look back at CR's posts again, and try to link to (via quoting) the things you saw that convinced you he was scum?

As I recall, I became "convinced" with the way he responded to my expressing suspicion of him.

Waiting for Xtoxm, checking to see if he is being active in other games at the moment.

I'll have you know this is fairly null for me (well with my current alignment spread, or lack thereof, in my current games). I post more in games i'm enjoying more.

The IC thing - Yeh, it's possible. In reality, the chance of an IC pair (in a 2-IC game such as this) is less than 1/81, I would think, but it's all pretty meaningless. Any pair can happen.

Xtoxm · Post Post #529 (isolation #69) » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:03 pm

It looks to me like you are trying to lead the town here; you tell the town to decide for itself, but in the very next sentence you tell the town that not all my questions were valid.

Are you saying leading is scummy?

You're next point. There's a big difference between thinking someone is pro-town, and pro-town play. I can totally see where he's coming from. Just because you are talking lots and posting all these vote analysis etc, doesn't mean you can't be scum. I would, however, say you wouldn't be a good lynch until lylo, if you were to be considered, as active players are always better to have around.

and in post 490, you FOS'd Xtoxm for defending you, stating that this isn't the first time he has done so. Am I supposed to believe that Xtoxm went from "low on your scumdar" all the way to an FOS simply because he defended you again? If he's done it before, and you find it scummy, why was he low on your scumdar in post 457?

Very often the way I work is by finding small things, often just one line, that makes me think they're scum. Sometimes one small thing can change my look on a game. This is not scummy. I'm not liking what you have to say about Ham.

Another question, ham; why did you wait until recently to vote for Westbrook? It looks to me like you didn't want to be the first to do so, because you voted in your next post after another player voted for him. As in day one, you used the words "I agree" shortly before your vote statement, and were again the second on the wagon. Your implication that you are doing so to get him back into the game strikes me as an excuse, does not change the fact that you could have done this pages ago, and will not have its intended effect as Westbrook is V/LA until the 6th.

Well this may be a fair point, if you've applied correctly. I don't recall the situation you are referencing, so I don't know. Not wanting to be a certain position to avoid looking scummy is a scum thought process, generally.

ham expressed very little disagreement with Xtoxm and had very little interaction with him throughout the thread (see the middle of Post 471 for examples.

So? How much interaction are you expecting between 2 players that think each other are town?

ham found militant's failure to specify what was scummy about ham suspicious, but not so for Xtoxm's failure to specify what was scummy about CR

A couple points. I did specify. Also, it's often natural for a townie to find someone more suspicious for an attack against them, rather than an attack against someone else, especially if the case is poor. However, I do not feel the cases are comparable. I think Ham responded to this pretty well, anyway.

ham has voted/FOS'd in a similar manner to the only other game he's played on this site, in which he was scum

I may be reading things in the wrong order here, but this has been defeated. I do not wish to see this brought up again.

ham followed Xtoxm's vote to a mislynch on day one

Incorrect. I hammered. Also, why are you saying that this, in itself, is scummy? A townie cannot be lynched with several townie votes on him. This on it's own means nothing. Why did you feel the need to say it?

ham recently voted for Westbrook without presenting any new reasoning; why didn't he vote pages ago?

If anything, i'd call this a town-tell. Scum are happy to sit back and wait, town want to move forward towards getting scum lynched. There can be any multitude of reasons for the pause. I've certainly done similar as town in the past.

Not impressed, Gieff.

Oh, and, yeh. I totally spent 20 hours reading through and constructing this post...

Xtoxm · Post Post #530 (isolation #70) » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:06 pm

Oh, there was the one point you brought up I submitted on - However I supect it is not as you say it is. Maybe you could reference what you mean?

Xtoxm · Post Post #534 (isolation #71) » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:59 am

Because all you did was kick back at me, and vote me, and I have already explained beyond that.

I checked up West, he appears to be active on the site in another game.

Xtoxm · Post Post #537 (isolation #72) » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:44 pm

Mod: Can we have alive list updated please

Xtoxm · Post Post #545 (isolation #73) » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:28 pm

I've thought a little about this game, and I think what we may have is either a W-CR or W-CC pairing. Either way, W appears to be trying to lurk by, and I think him being lynched today would be useful.

CC raises suspicioun with his "Major lurking" accusation on me, which is nothing but a blatant lie.

Unvote Vote West

Xtoxm · Post Post #548 (isolation #74) » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:01 pm

False.

Xtoxm · Post Post #550 (isolation #75) » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:53 am

So? That's really not much, for me. I was in about 10 games when this one started, when a game gets to a climax point it's easy to knock up lots of posts. I wasn't avoiding this game at any point. Hence, I wasn't lurking.

Xtoxm · Post Post #557 (isolation #76) » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:18 pm

You know what, I'm going to make a substanceless post just to avoid further accussation of me avoiding this game. Yes, I did just post elsewhere. No, I don't have to time to look over this one in detail.

Xtoxm · Post Post #559 (isolation #77) » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:11 am

Intuition.

Xtoxm · Post Post #565 (isolation #78) » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:52 pm

I've looked up West's history, and it seems he always does this. He's played about 10 games in all, and flaked them all, with all roles...Scum/VT/Town power.

I still think what Inf did was indicative of scum. If he's town, I think it's a CC-CR pair.

Xtoxm · Post Post #566 (isolation #79) » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:55 pm

Please link me to the post where you "already discussed your thoughts on ham."

My isolation 31 will have been what I had in mind, I think.

Xtoxm · Post Post #567 (isolation #80) » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:56 pm

In what way would lynching W be useful?

Because I think he's scum, and if he's not I think I know who is.

Xtoxm · Post Post #568 (isolation #81) » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:58 pm

Game: Posts on 12/8 after my case, Posts on 12/9, Posts on 12/10, Posts on 12/11 before the hammer

Newbie 686: 0,4,0,0
Mini 680: 1,4,0,0
Mini 688: 0,1,0,5
Open 95: 7,2,6,3
Mini 695: 0,1,4,2
Mini 708 : 0,0,1,0

What are you trying to do with this? I'm the same alignment in this and all those. There was a point where this game was low on the order. It's pretty much at the top now.

Xtoxm · Post Post #571 (isolation #82) » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:16 pm

My suspicion of CR has dropped, and of W raised (though not really for any new reasons, just reflection on the game). Pretty much yeh, I think everyone else is town. I've seen atleast slight scumminess from the 3 I suspect, as i've already mentioned.

What does this mean? Post 31 isn't by you.

The post numbered 31 when viewing my posts in isolation.

[The "Display posts from previous" option below the submit button]

Xtoxm · Post Post #573 (isolation #83) » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:49 pm

Yes, I realise this. I thought I had already mentioned, clearly had not. I don't go back and check everytime I post, I go by memory.

Xtoxm · Post Post #576 (isolation #84) » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:20 am

I think some of your more recent actions have read more as town, and your reaction to my voting you isn't so scummy, now I think about. I've seen knee-jerk reactions like that from town. That's not to say I think you're town. Just looking better.

Xtoxm · Post Post #578 (isolation #85) » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:41 am

This may not go down well, but what the heck.

Can't we just lynch him without a replacement?

Xtoxm · Post Post #583 (isolation #86) » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:13 pm

*Sigh*

Xtoxm · Post Post #586 (isolation #87) » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:58 pm

If you're all that suspicious of me, you should probably lynch me.

Xtoxm · Post Post #588 (isolation #88) » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:12 pm

So why don't you suspect a CR-CC scumpair?

I said if W wasn't scum I think it's them, he's jsut my top suspect.

Why don't you think so now?

Different situation. A claim isn't really going to change anything with my stance on his lynch. And I was trying to be ICish.

Which "more recent" actions are you referring to?

I'd probably have to look back, but I think a couple things he said struck me as town.

Xtoxm · Post Post #591 (isolation #89) » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:07 pm

Which, unlike it's counterpart, is a valid argument.

Xtoxm · Post Post #593 (isolation #90) » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:17 pm

No, there's a town motive behind it.

Xtoxm · Post Post #600 (isolation #91) » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:58 pm

I was being sarcastic.

However I do believe both can be applied in certain circumstances, I have used both in the past.

Xtoxm · Post Post #605 (isolation #92) » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:12 am

Greetings Rabbit.

Xtoxm · Post Post #608 (isolation #93) » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:12 pm

Xtoxm · Post Post #611 (isolation #94) » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:32 am

I think Xtoxm is scum. The 3-day lurk while suspicions grew against him followed by the 5-minute hammer based on the VT-claim should be enough to lynch him regardless of other behavior. He has also been extremely unhelpful and unwilling to answer questions of him, started both D1 cases, and does not explain the reasoning behind his votes.

Then why are you voting CR? Fucking well vote me if you think i'm scum. This just makes it look like you're scum and want me for tomorrow's mislynch.

Xtoxm · Post Post #625 (isolation #95) » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:52 pm

Mkay happy with my vote.

Xtoxm · Post Post #638 (isolation #96) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:02 pm

So what's going on? Are we lynching me or not?

Xtoxm · Post Post #641 (isolation #97) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:25 pm

GIEFF wrote:
Xtoxm wrote:So what's going on? Are we lynching me or not?
What do you recommend?

Can you accept that i'm town?

Xtoxm · Post Post #643 (isolation #98) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:33 pm

GIEFF wrote:I could be convinced, but the outlook is not good right now.

I don't think I can do any more convincing. You keep calling me scum, yet you seem unwilling to vote me.

Xtoxm · Post Post #645 (isolation #99) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:28 pm

Who do you think is most likely to be scum (besides me, apparently)...

I've made that quite clear.

and what convincing have you done?

Plenty.

For the second point I guess I'm asking for specific posts you say outline your best defense.

Well that's a shame, cos you're not getting it.

Xtoxm · Post Post #647 (isolation #100) » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:46 pm

Don't tell me how to do my job.

It's not a reasonable request, and it doesn't work.

What's your best defence, Gieff?

Xtoxm · Post Post #652 (isolation #101) » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:18 am

Yeh, i'd happily lynch him today.

Xtoxm · Post Post #653 (isolation #102) » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:22 am

Infact i'm leaning a bit more away from CR and towards CC-MR pair. He's still a long way above the rest though.

Xtoxm · Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:00 am

Nothing in particular, though you've had almost no interaction, which increases likeliness.

Xtoxm · Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:43 am

O.o at xtoxm asking about the self lynch. I don't know what this is about, and I was wondering why he felt he was the number one candidate on enough people's list to be a lynch. I thought I understood xtoxm somewhat decently up to this point, but then something like this comes out and I get a "bwuh?" moment.

Well, everyone but you had jsut stated some suspicion of me, I wanted to know where I stood.

@ xtoxm: Who are you referring to in 652 when you said: "Yeh, i'd happily lynch him today. " Are you talking about MR (who your vote is on) or CC after your suspicions of him and Ham's post pointing out CC's lurking?

I was talking about CC. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with MR.

Good post, btw.

Gieff, it's decision time. I suspect CR and CC will be coming my way, you have the hammer.

Xtoxm · Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:24 am

I actually find that kinda reaction in the face of a lynch quite a strong town-tell, generally..

Xtoxm · Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:47 am

Unvote

I have found all three of the roles holder's scummy, but I think i've seen a town-tell, and got a week to think about this so may as well use it.

Xtoxm · Post Post #670 (isolation #107) » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:29 am

Yeh it is scummy, why are you unwilling to vote someone you are apparantly so supicious of?

Vote CC

He's barely given an opinion on anyone, and only recently started to sheep onto my "easy" wagon.

Xtoxm · Post Post #671 (isolation #108) » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:45 am

ClockworkRuse wrote:Progress update, by the way, I'm going to pick up on my re-read at five or six.

Cba?

Xtoxm · Post Post #672 (isolation #109) » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:55 am

I just read CC and CR, and I understand why CC has been getting such a free ride (from me too) his earlier posting does look pretty good. However I don't think this affects points made against him, and I noticed a lot of his discussion has been theory based rather than trying-to-make-progress based if you get me. His more recent play and particularly how he's been attacking me looks scummy though.

CR, mixed really, I did again pick up on that scumminess I got before but i'm not really sure how to describe it.

Xtoxm · Post Post #673 (isolation #110) » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:33 am

Naps are pretty win.

Can I ask, please, what is everyone's opinion on CC right now?

(btw - by everyone, i'd like something from all participants)

Xtoxm · Post Post #674 (isolation #111) » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:49 am

Expect CC, if he doesn't want.

Xtoxm · Post Post #678 (isolation #112) » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:20 am

Below the "submit" button at the bottom, you see the "all users" tab? You use that. It's incredibly useful.

Xtoxm · Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:55 am

GIEFF wrote:
magicrabbit wrote:Unvote: Xtoxm for now since derailing a lynch on me seems protown.
He was derailing a lynch on himself.

Complete slander

FOS Gieff

Xtoxm · Post Post #691 (isolation #114) » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:12 am

Moving my vote to try and get scum lynched upon an opinion change, which has in turn derailed a wagon on Rabbit, so yes, in a sense.

Xtoxm · Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:01 am

You know what, I think it's Gieff and CC.

Look at how his attitude has changed now be and Rabbit have stopped slogging it out, and i've moved my vote to CC.

The accusation of changing my vote to derail my lynch, and this:

It is clear Xtoxm was checking the game, and purposely not saying anything while suspicions were building against him. This is an extremely easy lynch to me.

are both complete misrepresentations of me.

He was perfectly happy with me and Rabbit being the contenders for the lynch, but now i've brought CC into the pool, he brings up old reasons to push for my lynch. You don't screw around voting someone you are supposedly that more suspicious of someone else.

Xtoxm · Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:21 am

I addressed those points ages ago.

Xtoxm · Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:00 am

You wouldn't call the three days leading up to a deadline lynch a climax point?

Yeh it is. Checking the dates, it was the last 2 weeks of terms, where I had several assessed tests/coursework, and I was disinterested in this game at the time. I'm not anymore. I kn ow this isn't a good excuse. But I play in many games at once, and when I don't have surplus free time I post just in the ones that i'm enjoying.

I hammered because the VT claim, which means you aren't lynching a power-role, and because deadline was coming up shortly and I had been suspicious of Mili. Ultimately it probably was a bit crap as I can gauge from the reaction it recieved, but where else was the lynch going to go? Me? I don't think it would have really gone anywhere else, like I said my prefered lynch that day was the other one, but when I could see that wasn't happening I figure there's no point hanging around. Obviously, I can ignore myself being an option because obviously I can't endorse that.

There's nothing really I can say about the timing of my arrival, I checked the game when I did, I don't check all my games everyday (unless i've got lots of time to, and there isn't one i'm actively disenjoying). You can rest your case on an ultimatley statistical argument if you want, but think that atleast as crap how many hammer was percieved, if not more so, especially it gets proven wrong.

Xtoxm · Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:11 pm

GIEFF wrote:Thanks, Xtoxm; that explanation is helpful. The last two weeks of terms allowed you 41 posts in other games between your two in this one, so I don't buy that as a valid excuse. I understand why you would hammer a VT claim, and I understand the deadline pressure, but we still had some time to clear up other things, not the least important of which was the case I had made against you 3 days earlier.

Also, as CR asked you earlier on Day 2:

ClockworkRuse wrote:I don't like the fact that you admitted to hammering when you were "checking in." Did you re-read before you hammered? Did you catch up?

But looking back at your post history, you DID post in a couple other games just a few minutes before your hammer, which lends credence to your claim that the timing of your arrival was just random. But we really are talking about a less-than-5-minute window in a 72-hour period of no posting, and that just stretches the bounds of what I feel is likely to be a random coincidence.

Was your hammer was the first time you actually opened the thread in those three days, or just the first time you posted in it?

Like I said, 41 posts really is not much for me - As you know my posts are very short in length, and I generally use one post for each thought, leading to multiple posts in a row, hence the title under my name. I don't just sit in a hole and revise and do nothing else, just the games i'm not so into get squeezed when other things are on my mind. Right now, (and you can check if you like) several of my games are getting might you might call neglected, as I have exams this week.

----

To be honest I don't recall - Infact i'd say it's almost probable that I did open the thread at another time in that period, semi-skimmed, and thought "nothing interesting here". Take it as a scumtell if you wish, but I assure you it's not, I do that kind of thing often as town.

Xtoxm · Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:24 pm

Right, I guess it's this:

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: 356

My initial response before I went back and looked was this:

"I don't recall, but I may well have seen it, before hand, but not examined until after"

However, looking back at it triggered a memory - I did see it - and I can remember thinking that post the big one you made further down were one and the same...I read pretty much hardly any of it. I'm not good with text walls at the best of times. I recall reading a small prat of your voting analysis thingy or something, but don't remember what I thought. I'm pretty certain I never went back and read them in full. I also believe aformentioned reading was before I hammered. Is there something of particular relevance there?

Xtoxm · Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:24 pm

Part*

Xtoxm · Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:25 pm

Also, I think I would like to retract the Gieff-scum accusation. I think I said too much too quickly about one post I found scummy.

Xtoxm · Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:38 pm

Right, i'm off for the night now.

Xtoxm · Post Post #708 (isolation #123) » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:49 am

Claim while your at it, thanks.

Xtoxm · Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:45 am

Yes. We are at deadline, your appearances are sparse at best, and I want to lynch you.

Xtoxm · Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:03 pm

It's a shame you have to be so shortsided Gieff. I'm sure I can feel doubts in you about me. If you're scum then that's well fabricated. But we could lynch scum today.

Xtoxm · Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:15 pm

Shortsighted*

Xtoxm · Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:16 pm

CarnCarn wrote:
GIEFF wrote:You're not misunderstanding. I looked at all your posts in isolation, and found two in which you bring up new points about related to who you think is scum, and why.
There is more to providing content and helping town than just that. As an example, take my disagreement with you about your case on hambargarz earlier today. I provided reasons why it was not sound and why I felt you were reaching/tunneling with some of your points. No, I wasn't saying who I thought was scum, but I was helping guide the discussion in the direction I felt was better for town.

Xtoxm wrote:Yes. We are at deadline, your appearances are sparse at best, and I want to lynch you.
I don't anticipate going anywhere before deadline. As for the latter, I can say the same for you. What exactly are your reasons to lynch me? ham's case which I've just explained why it's wrong?
It's pretty amazing actually that you don't seem to mind lynching anyone who isn't you or ham.

Not true.

You are quite obvious scum.

Xtoxm · Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:31 pm

More lies?

I have not called anyone else obvious scum.

Xtoxm · Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:52 pm

Lol. I'd been suspicious of you long before then. That was just an agreement statement.

Xtoxm · Post Post #723 (isolation #130) » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:20 pm

I don't say everything. Anyway i'm bored your whinings...

Xtoxm · Post Post #725 (isolation #131) » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:27 pm

Gieff you know i'm not good with that kind of thing. What is wrong with what i've done so far?

Xtoxm · Post Post #727 (isolation #132) » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:33 pm

CC has shown no signs of any genuine thought process to try and figure who is scum, and has spent today sheeping onto an easy wagon of someone heavily suspected (myself). With what I believe to be some major towntells coming from Rabbit (who I believe i've been tunneling on), this makes CC a much better lynch, and very liekly scum in my eyes.

He has also stretched things i've said in an attempt to incriminate me, but that's one of his lesser offences as far as i'm concerned. Townies do it sometimes.

Xtoxm · Post Post #729 (isolation #133) » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:36 pm

And yes - Theory discussion. CC has much of it early on, and little of much anything else. In my experience, this HAS been a scumtell.

Xtoxm · Post Post #731 (isolation #134) » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:40 pm

I believe a death-pleadge of the sorts Rabbit made on L-1 one is unlikely to be coming from scum, and his reaction to how unvoted him him is very townly.

Xtoxm · Post Post #733 (isolation #135) » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:42 pm

Yes. and don't pretend you don't understand what I mean, i've already explained.

Xtoxm · Post Post #735 (isolation #136) » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:54 pm

Xtoxm wrote:CC has shown no signs of any genuine thought process to try and figure who is scum, and has spent today sheeping onto an easy wagon of someone heavily suspected (myself). With what I believe to be some major towntells coming from Rabbit (who I believe i've been tunneling on), this makes CC a much better lynch, and very liekly scum in my eyes.

He has also stretched things i've said in an attempt to incriminate me, but that's one of his lesser offences as far as i'm concerned. Townies do it sometimes.

This was my attempt at it, btw.

Xtoxm · Post Post #743 (isolation #137) » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:14 pm

I agree it's quite unlikely both are scum, but are you really so sure that both are not town? I don't like the "Well, even if we lynch town today, we'll surely get scum tomorrow" logic. Let's just lynch scum today.

I don't mind it, I recall using it in the past, though i'm a little disappointed Ham think's i'm scum.

Xtoxm · Post Post #755 (isolation #138) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:58 am

Ok..Well as long as we lynch CC I won't have to refute this, but come on that's pretty far-fetched...

Xtoxm · Post Post #757 (isolation #139) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:04 am

Then it's game over and i'll accept I was wrong, but i'm nigh on certain he's scum. Really.

Xtoxm · Post Post #759 (isolation #140) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:18 am

Because i'll be lynched tomorrow.

The way I see it at this point, if we're both town, it doesn't matter who gets lynched first - The other will be lynched tomorrow.

Anyway i'm happy with that cause i'm sure he's not.

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:54 am

So now you're sure CR is town?

What the fuck ?

I haven't even mentioned him in ages, let alone suggested I think he's town.

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:58 am

Can someone hammer cc already i'm getting bored of this

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:27 am

That's probably not testable, but someone just hammer me

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:28 am

I'd self hammer but i'd get IC-banned

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:36 am

Jesus one of you hammer me. It was either me or CC, unless you wanna lynch the cop claim (which could easily be scum) then hammer me.

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:37 am

I cc.

...

Nah, VT

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:41 am

I'm waiting...

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:43 am

Guys seriously, what are you waiting for?

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:44 am

GODAMMIT HAM

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:47 am

Hmm...IC status, or sanity...

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:51 am

I spend the whole fucking day trying to stop you lynching me, and now I accept it you won't fucking hammer? What's wrong with you people?!

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:54 am

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:57 am

Would you rather lynch a possible cop? On the chance he's telling the truth, it's not worth it. I have experience of this. Though generally cop claims like that ARE scum,

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:02 pm

omfg...

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:02 pm

What exactly do you want to do in the next 3 days, Gieff? Sit around and tell me i'm suspicious again?

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:06 pm

No it's a long shot better to lynch a VT than NL

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:07 pm

(and that IS a serious IC-comment, btw)

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:08 pm

I want to hear from CR, I want to discuss what to do if you flip town, and I want to read back and see if CC really looks like a cop.

Ok, Gieff. What are you going to do when I flip town?

If you think you're going to get lynched and can't stop it, then by all means stop checking the thread. It should make no difference to you if we take three days or not to make the decision final.

I don't like that...I can't do that...

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:17 pm

Is it really that much better? Is it just cause of the same suspicions will be around the next day, and we'd just have a night kill to really go forward without proof? If we lynch a townie at this point, we're in lylo with the night kill (5 town vs. 2 scum > 3 town vs. 2 scum) Even with a successful doc protection if we have one, it'd be 4 vs 2, and if we don't lynch right we'd need yet another doc protection to not lose. What happens if we find .... anybody else to be scummy, can't we try to get them and see if they come up? Granted, about 3 days isn't much time, but isn't there a better possibility at all?

You can take my word for it, NL is horrible, is NOT an option. Avoiding NL is the only time IC's are allowed to self-vote as town. (I think)

Lynching someone someone else is a possibility, but that's pretty much zero. You can try if you like, but i've given up on it.

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:18 pm

GIEFF wrote:
Xtoxm wrote:(and that IS a serious IC-comment, btw)
So some of your IC-comments were NOT serious?

I really want to hear from CR, even if only to hear whether he CC's cop or not.

So Amished, who are the two scum?

No, but some of my non-IC-comments might have been...

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:23 pm

What do you hope to achieve by that, Gieff?

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:24 pm

GIEFF wrote:Claiming VT should not factor into your decision of whether or not Xtoxm is scum.

No. Nothing anyone says should factor into your decision. We should roll dice.

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:30 pm

Because clealry, this setup is garanteed to have a cop present.

Xtoxm · Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:44 pm

I somewhat doubt he'll endorse it.

Xtoxm · Post Post #810 (isolation #165) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:00 pm

My first reaction was no, then I thought maybe the cop claim doesn't really change much. But I don't really care so much anymore.

Xtoxm · Post Post #814 (isolation #166) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:16 pm

I conceded that both being town was a possibility. The reason it was unlikely is because of Xtoxm's "odd" certainty that CC was scum. If Xtoxm is town, he is quite experienced and we should take his opinion with alot of weight, which means CC was very likely scum (add to this my own suspicions which I outlined in my case against him). If CC is town, then Xtoxm would be very likely scum because of said, "odd" certainty and rushing/pushing for a mislynch.

I'm usually pretty good at finding scum, but I am by no means perfect. I've been wrong.

Xtoxm · Post Post #815 (isolation #167) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:19 pm

If your first reaction was no, then why didn't you unvote?

Because the only place I would have moved it to was me.

And if anyone had hammered, and he'd been cop, that pretty much confirms them as scum anyway. 1 for 1 is a good trade for the cop.

Xtoxm, please explain the cop tell you saw from insanepenguin.

I don't even remember saying this. I don't know what I saw. I cannot remember.

Xtoxm · Post Post #817 (isolation #168) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:39 pm

CC and CR I guess. Nothings really changed. Why?

Xtoxm · Post Post #819 (isolation #169) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:56 pm

Uhh, a lot. You haven't been paying attention...

The cop claim changes little, if he's lying, it doesn't really say much about MR. If he's town then yeh obv he's clear.

Xtoxm · Post Post #827 (isolation #170) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:01 pm

FoS: hambargarz I think it's much more possible now that he's scum trying to deflect attention from a scumbuddy in danger of being lynched (either magicrabbit or Xtoxm).

Why would you say something like this if you had an innocent on him?

Why did you make no attempt to crumb your result, or even mention WOU/MR or suggest you thought he was town up until very recently?

That's not how a cop with an innocent result acts...

Also, why, if you are cop, were you happy not to claim to save MR from being lynched, when he spent a period at L-1? Or even try to put you argument in against his lynch? Why did you sit back and let it happen?

The doubt that has crept into me is repidly disappearing as I reread CC. His play does not fit with what he has claimed at all.

Xtoxm · Post Post #828 (isolation #171) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:02 pm

Sorry about my outburst, btw. I get like that sometimes. I get frustrated and impatient.

Xtoxm · Post Post #830 (isolation #172) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:29 pm

Hmm.

I thought that a 50/50 chance of sacrificing themselves to draw out the real cop is a bad idea.

This would seem to imply knowledge of the presence of a Mafia RB.

Is that what you're referring to, Gieff?

I dunno if it's steadfast (if it is what you meant). What did you mean by 50/50, Amish?

Xtoxm · Post Post #831 (isolation #173) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:31 pm

On further thought, he clearly meant tehre are 2 setups with cops and 2 without.

So that's not it.

I can't see anything in 821 that looks like a slip to me.

Xtoxm · Post Post #834 (isolation #174) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:41 pm

That's not a scumtell. That is the phrase used, regardless of whatever protective roles may or may not be present. NL gives scum a free nightkill. I assure, it's a standard term.

Amish still looks pretty town to me.

Xtoxm · Post Post #835 (isolation #175) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:41 pm

I assure you*

Xtoxm · Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:51 am

So are you saying you think i'm town? Why are you pushing for my lynch then?

Xtoxm · Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:56 am

What do you think of my recent post about CC's claim?

Do you think his play fits with a cop?

Xtoxm · Post Post #848 (isolation #178) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:31 pm

Go go go

Xtoxm · Post Post #850 (isolation #179) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:40 pm

What do you expect from scum?

Xtoxm · Post Post #855 (isolation #180) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:52 pm

If you are town, any extra info you can give us before your lynch is helpful.

This is actually not true. I get lynched in most my games, and people always ask to to give final thoughts, PA's, etc before they lynch me, to be useful "if i'm town". Never have I once been listened to/referred to subsequently.

Xtoxm · Post Post #856 (isolation #181) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:54 pm

He hasn't posted ANYWHERE on the site in a week; it's not like he's avoiding this game specifically.

The comment wasn't really all that serious, thought I do think he's scum.

Xtoxm · Post Post #858 (isolation #182) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:55 pm

What did you think about the case I posted against him?

Haven't read it yet sorry. I'll attempt to.

Xtoxm · Post Post #859 (isolation #183) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:57 pm

If CC really is cop, I need to re-look over Ham. But i'm being lynched, so meh.

Xtoxm · Post Post #861 (isolation #184) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:59 pm

I'm not as certain as I once was.

Xtoxm · Post Post #862 (isolation #185) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:06 pm

Why did it take nine days and a lot of prodding from me to get you to post these three lines? Before this answer, between the 11th and the 20th, you posted 10 other times in the game and 26 times in other games, so this looks to me like you were hoping the question would just be dropped.

I kinda get the feeling you said the same about me. Would you say that's fair?

I'm not sure if this tends to come from scum more often than town, it's possible, but at this point I would only call this a back up reason.

Xtoxm · Post Post #864 (isolation #186) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:13 pm

No, MR has moved drastically by himself.

Basically if CC isn't scum, someone has to fill the spot and i'm not seeing it as you or Amish right now. Obv MR would be clear anyway, but liked I said he's dropped several massive town-tells recently.

I've looked over your case. On the whole I think it's weak, although the "hero" I think may be a scumtell. Still think he's scum, though.

Why do you want my opinion on your case when you already know I agree with the conclusion?

Xtoxm · Post Post #866 (isolation #187) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:19 pm

Oooh i'm likely where that's going for wifom of my other active nighted game with him

Xtoxm · Post Post #867 (isolation #188) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:19 pm

Liking*

Xtoxm · Post Post #875 (isolation #189) » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:54 am

He could be lying about his outside stuff, he could be telling the truth. I didn't think many places had papers due in the middle of January.

Ftr, just about everywhere in the UK does. School, 6th form, Uni...Like I said, I had an exam every day this week. Though I think CR is from the US, I

highly

doubt he's lying about outside stuff. Select few people ever lie about outside stuff, ever (even as scum), and I don't think much of it when they do. I think it's very low.

That was the main thing that caught my attention. I'm getting the same feel as you from him really - Stuff that could go either way, and that feeling I mentioned earlier on. Not sure what to make of it. It's largely elimination thats put him as scum for me right now.

Xtoxm · Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:56 pm

Unvote Vote CR

Xtoxm · Post Post #933 (isolation #191) » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:56 pm

Baaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Xtoxm · Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:34 am

Want me to replace?

mod edit: no

Xtoxm · Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:53 am

Aww.

The main thing i'm annoyed about here, is that my confidence in Ham being town and CC being scum waned. Though I think Ham changing and voting me was pretty bad.