Newbie 2095 | Game over

[whiskey delta]

VOTE: Tidus of the X

quack

[whiskey delta]

Alianna already admitted they know Furtive is town though

Scum is Alianna + 72

gg

[whiskey delta]

How long has everyone been playing? Outta curiosity

I used to play a lot but it’s probably been about ~3 years since I did last. My home website went the way of the dodo sadly

[whiskey delta]

I've been playing for a few months here.

Here are my completed town games: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88666, viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89004, viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89124

And my completed scum games: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89137, viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89296

So far I've won 1/5 completed games

I'll be honest. I'm probably not going to read your past games unless I really, really have to thank you for providing them though.

Mafia can be hard did you win as a wolf or town?

This is my second game here, though i currently cannot mention what game I was in

No worries on the mention. I've seen the rules posted about ongoing games. Second game here - so you've played elsewhere?

I started playing forum mafia around 2014, played and hosted a couple of games, but on a non-mafia site. Returned to playing only last year.

Cool. I started playing around that same time until probably ~2018ish and then stopped. Hosting games is fun too

This is my fourth game. I played in Newbies 2090 and 2092, in which I was VT both times. I also have one ongoing that I legally cannot discuss.
I don't have any other experience.

The question then is what are you

this

time?

A little over a year, but the last time I played in the newbie queue was back in September.

Is the newbie queue that different from the rest of the forum?


Thank you all for answering. Like I mentioned, I played for a few years on my homesite very regularly but that was a while ago. The deadlines will be an adjustment for me since I've only ever played with shorter ones but maybe a slower pace game could be just what I need these days. Suppose we'll see

[whiskey delta]

Town, Newbie 2090. I think these games heavily depend on how many PR die early.

I don’t disagree but I would add vanilla games do exist so it’s not impossible for Town to win without PRs. Generally speaking how would you describe the play here on MS?

It's a bit more serious and formal over here, for the most part, but a little less stressful imo.

Mafia, stressful? Couldn’t be

Yeah, I played on one other site, GameFAQs. I'm still very new to mafia though.

I think I’ve heard of that forum. My homesite is called DM but I’ve played on a few different boards over the years like 2+2, VS, and MU.

[whiskey delta]

Towards the end of introductions people usually make 'readslists' ranking people from town to scum.

Anything stick out to you as rank worthy yet?

I don't know math but I'm pretty sure that number would drop to lottery odds in 7v2.

Good thing this setup doesn't allow for that then.




UNVOTE:

[whiskey delta]

Early town leans on Greetings and 72

page 2 reads lol

[whiskey delta]

I guess since this is Day 1, all the current votes are senseless.

My notes:

Alianna
- was informed that furtiveglance is Town?? (Mason or Friendly Neighbor?)
- asks who wants to be nightkilled (sus)

Well this is just a disgusting post to start off the game.

What do you find disgusting about it?

These notes from hutmeil are very entertaining.

I'm gonna start beef with 72offsuit so you other people have something to talk about.

You like to rhyme, and commit crime (?).

VOTE: 72offsuit

Is this like a late stage RVS vote? Cause your phrasing doesn’t make it seem like you think 72 is scum. Offhand but it is funny they voted you for not RVS voting originally

[whiskey delta]

hutmeil seems Elim Bait ish to me but I am bothered by how they assumed Alianna meant a Town role in her post 11. Can you talk about that

@hutmeil

?

Dislike Roden hedging on that wagon more though

VOTE: Roden

[whiskey delta]

hutmeil seems Elim Bait ish to me but I am bothered by how they assumed Alianna meant a Town role in her post 11. Can you talk about that

@hutmeil

?

Dislike Roden hedging on that wagon more though

VOTE: Roden

I have stuff to say about hutmeil but I'll wait until they respond.

Also, irrelevant, but this is the slowest D1 I have ever endured. It's taken us around 3 days to get near the end of the third page. The other games I've been in reached this point in a matter of hours.

generate some discussion then. Like why you are voting for FG, or what you think of 72 or Greeting or me or anyone else besides hutmeil?

[whiskey delta]

Hedging how? I voted there.

For pressure. After stating you don’t think hutmeil would react that way as newbscum

Fwiw I had it in my head that your vote was E-2 but now I see that tako syndrome didn’t vote

[whiskey delta]

I don’t know when hutmeil plans on responding or if it matters, so I’m just going to say what I was going to say.
It could be sus that they assumed I was talking about a town role, but the two possibilities were that furtive and I were masons and that furtive is FN who somehow informed me pregame.
FN can only exist in column B and masons can only exist in A and C, so this might be an indication that they don’t know what column we’re in (therefore town).
Sure, they could have fabricated that, but I think if they were approaching it strategically they’d realize I could be claiming scum.

I hadn’t thought of the different mafia roles for each column yet but that’s a good point. Clearly I need to familiarize myself more with this setup as we go. I guess my hang up stems from what I thought you were clearly implying with your phrasing. “Informed” as in like informed minority, but I agree with your conclusion that the more simple answer is probably the correct one.

[whiskey delta]

You should read the wiki if you want more info. Alianna was not claiming anything, just making a joke to Furtive. Let’s leave it at that

[whiskey delta]

I have early townleans on whiskey delta and hutmeil. I don't think anyone else has earned one yet.

Why

whiskey delta

?

Why not whiskey delta?

[whiskey delta]

Provided hutmeil = Town, I might slot Alianna as my top TR now for post 79

[whiskey delta]

Because in the greater context of the game Town clearing a possible MisElim early on as scum doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Could be faked, of course, yadda yadda but the post shows some depth I’m not sure scum go to just to TR someone they didn’t have to. lolme if wrong but I kinda like that read for where we are currently.

[whiskey delta]

I think it's safe to assume that giving scum info about town PRs was considered anti-town play even a decade ago.

Is this the part where you double down on your pressure vote and turn it into a scum case?

I’d be curious to your thoughts on the reasons hutmeil is being TR by others and where you stand on that

[whiskey delta]

Same question to tako syndrome

[whiskey delta]

Actually anyone with a RVS vote or not voting should decide where they want to go. There’s 5(?) days to deadline so let’s giddy up

[whiskey delta]

Not yet but better to use what time we have than not.

72 asked you a question in 117 that you haven’t answered yet. Would you?

[whiskey delta]

Deception at its finest.

[whiskey delta]

Without knowing why you have them there it’s hard to say

[whiskey delta]

@FG:

I don't understand the townread on 72.
I'm half & half about hutmeil. Gut is telling me to go after that slot, but also the fact he's newer is stopping me.
I'm ok with a townread on Delta, Alianna & greeeting tho.

I want to give more time to sort Roden out tho. Roden is often a slot that's harder for me to read even tho I have played with him mult. times.
Tidus is newer so I can see that slot being limbait, but he also hasn't done anything.

Again if Hutmeil does flip scum look after an inexperienced player/inactive player for the scum partner. Just for future reference.

I know you were replying to FG in this, but since they are not included in here - what are your thoughts on them so far?

[whiskey delta]

Town

Alianna
Greeting
Malakittens
hutmeil

72
Tidus
FG
Roden

Scum

This is how I'm seeing things currently and admittedly a lot hedges on hutmeil being Town and Roden being scum.

I already mentioned 79 from

Alianna

that I liked a lot. It's a good evaluation coming from what it did and just generally not a read I would expect scum to make in that spot. They are being responsive in a way that gives me the impression they are paying attention and prodding others for info. Feels Townie and probability also says they probably just are.

I liked

Greeting

early on for 41. Easy post to make for scum but still ~Townie in purpose. You can see how they are carrying the read they make on hutmeil while branching out in their responses. 182 more or less mirrors my sentiment irt Roden and I would consider this vote clearing if Roden ever flips scum.

Malakittens

is almost pure tone reading. I wasn't the biggest fan of their entrance once they replaced in but their handling of hutmeil has been more dynamic than others and I generally like their response to FG in 177. Again, simple probability means this slot is most likely Town so without any flips to readjust accordingly I feel semi-good.

hutmeil

is admittedly my leap of faith read in this situation. I am more convinced by what others have said than anything hutmeil has done in particular, but again if Roden turns up red then I would take them off the table as well.

72

got an early TL for 20 & 47 because they seem geared to generate reactions. Didn't give much when asked for content but seems to be digging in now and asking pointed questions. Holding pattern until I see more but still >rand Town.

Tidus

hasn't said much which looks ~bad but at the same time I feel like scum would try harder to look productive. 148 isn't much but might be a >Townie reaction.

Furtive

elim would be something I could compromise on. I would describe their play as present enough to avoid suspicion without really making an impact either. 63 & 69 feel a bit contrived. They are asking questions and making comments along the way which aren't overtly troublesome but gut says are off. 120 & 122 make me curious about their reasons for having Alianna as a TR in 165 which sort of reads like cheeky TMI. FG as Town along with those 5 listed means their POE would be down to Tidus, Malalt, and Roden which makes the sequence between 137 & 150 interesting in a world where Roden is scum. The mix up could be genuine but I'm more pointing out the fact that they should be considering Roden a suspect based on their own reads but seem to be voting around the wagon up to this point. Worth coming back to if there is ever a scum reveal between these two.

Roden

55 initially pinged because I didn't like how they were saying hutmeil was more likely Town but still voting them for "pressure". I feel their SR on hutmeil has developed unnaturally like they latched on early and have been backing their way into it. 123 & 124 is where I think this begins. Hutmeil doesn't say anything in 90 or 109 that implies they were voting Roden because they had more votes at the time so calling the vote opportunistic reads like false justification. 167 & 185 don't feel accurate to me irt hutmeil getting TRs. I'm not sure how he came to that conclusion but I disagree that hutmeil hasn't been analyzed or was done for self-preservation. Besides the SR on hutmeil I don't have an idea of where they are on anyone else, which in itself concerns me too. Others have said they don't recognize this play from Roden so I am willing to reconsider if needed but they are my strongest SR at this point and I would be fine eliminating if the deadline was today.

[whiskey delta]

It really has nothing to do with your phrasing and everything to do with the arguments you are making to SR hutmeil. If hutmeil is Town then you appear to be scum fabricating a case against them. Your reasons justifying your vote while discrediting the TRs on hutmeil don’t make sense to me. The fact it’s so against the grain does give me some measure of pause, however.

If I am just mixed up because my comprehension sucks that is something I can accept but if that is the case, maybe help me out and present your case against hutmeil again in a few sentences that detail everything? And any other things that have stood out to you so far

[whiskey delta]

vote count 1.08

Many duck fans believe that most ducks dive, but that isn't the case! Rather than diving, most ducks (like the pictured) just dabble! That's because their food sources are generally pretty close to the surface.

---

Roden (3): whiskey delta, hutmeil, Greeting
furtiveglance (2): 72offsuit, Roden
hutmeil (1): Tidus of the X

Not Voting (3): Malakittens, Alianna, furtiveglance

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to reach an elimination.

Day one will end in (expired on 2022-06-04 10:00:00)

---

Mod notes:

• quack.

As for my vote, I think E-1 would be a bit hasty. If you currently had 2 votes, I'd vote you.

VOTE: Furtive

[whiskey delta]

There isn't much else going on, Hutmeil answered the prod then disappeared again. There are several people defending them, but they aren't really doing anything to defend themself. If it gives you pause that I'm "going against the grain", then you should be questioning why Hutmeil simply isn't playing and is staying silent as you all attack me.

Also, how exactly am I discrediting the town reads on Hutmeil? What did I say that was incorrect?

I can't say much else about Hutmeil until they post but we are not on the same page there as things stand, so hence the friction.

You said in 185 "I think the reason they're getting town read is a poor reason, since it comes from self-preservation rather than any attempts to actually analyze the player" regarding Hutmeil being TR by other players while you were voting against them. Who was doing what you are describing here? This is what I mean by discrediting because I don't think your account matches how things actually played out.

If hutmeil is Town then you appear to be scum fabricating a case against them.

?

Why is this the only possible outcome?

It's not, obviously. When I say you appear to be I am speaking from my POV. The reason I find you scummy is because of how you cased Hutmeil and how your reason changes each time you mention them. You voted originally for pressure, then called them opportunistic, and now you are lumping in activity tells.

You have backed off at this point but I agree that there is not much else to discuss about Hutmeil until they post again.

[whiskey delta]

Furtive seems towny to me for keeping it below E-1(it's a pretty towny thing to do to stop the potential to hammer until the town's decided where I first played)

Generally I would agree but that is exactly why I switched to see if FG will follow thru on their 223

[whiskey delta]

My two SRs suddenly turning on each other is an interesting twist that I'm gonna have to sleep on

[whiskey delta]

My two SRs suddenly turning on each other is an interesting twist that I'm gonna have to sleep on

I don't really get why I was a scumread initially, but that aside, this comment looks like you thought you had solved the game with me/Roden. Which is a terrible solve.

VOTE: Roden

LMAO perhaps so… I would be lying if I said I hadn’t entertained the idea already, but then again I figured your vote could end up here going back to 165 so I suppose it’s not all that surprising after all. I have been wondering when or if it would ever come which is also part of why I forced the issue.

What I really mean is you and Roden cross voting and being tied at E-2 is good info for now and later on. I don’t expect to be 2/2 but I also don’t think I’m 0/2. It’s a toss up until I’ve had more time process and see others weigh in.

[whiskey delta]

Easy, it’s just a game after all. I am laughing at you calling my read terrible, to be specific. Like I said, it could be, but before this latest development it seemed you were reluctant to vote Roden despite them being in your POE so maybe it’s not so terrible or I’m just thrown off because you telegraphed this a while ago but only now have come around to it.

I have time to consider you both more. Putting you at E-2 and forcing you to call your own bluff and put my other SR at E-2 is beneficial to me and to the game state. I’d like to see others weigh in before I do anything else, like I already stated. No one has yet. For where we were 5-6 pages ago this is great stuff.

[whiskey delta]

“switching from Roden to me makes it look like you don’t care which of us goes”

I would say pushing both of my D1 SRs is exactly what I should be doing here. Not having a definitive answer because it’s page 10 of D1 doesn’t mean I don’t care. More wagons equal more info and if swapping between two players I can see either being scum generates more then that is a good thing.

[whiskey delta]

Let me clarify further so you at least have a better idea of where I am regarding you both. Independently I find you both scummy for reasons I have laid out. Whatever team tells I was seeing could admittedly just be conf bias as I tend to get ahead of myself sometimes and can be pretty confident in my reads once I get going

It is not lost upon me that after I mentioned a willingness to swap to you if necessary that Roden - as lead wagon - pivoted to you shortly after when it was apparent the hutmeil push was getting a lot of static and with no prior mention. I think this looks ~bad but maybe it’s genuine and they are spreading focus elsewhere like they stated. Between the two of you, I think Roden has an upper hand at the moment because of the points they are bringing up. Several of your reads have flopped without much to point to as the reason and other moves seem to lack conviction imo, sort of like you are doing them just for the sake of it. Even now, it feels more like you’re voting Roden because you were called out for it rather than because you actually think they could be a wolf.

Last post until this evening unless someone responds to me directly. I’d like others to start weighing in since I feel you, me, and Roden have been the loudest over the last several pages.

[whiskey delta]

I'm a Cop.

Now kill Furtive.

Not calling you a liar but I want to note in this situation scum will always claim some PR. There is still 48+ hours until deadline so I’m content to let this air out a bit more and see what others have to say

I planned to check Greeting tonight btw. Way too many people town read that slot.

Which makes them a good NK candidate if they are Town. Do you think Greeting isn’t?

[whiskey delta]

That peek doesn’t sit right with me. Why not someone like 72/Tidus/hutmeil rather than a ~consensus TR?

[whiskey delta]

I don't know if it's a good idea to kill a claimed power

Generally speaking it’s not without a counter claim or compelling evidence to suggest the claimed person is lying. You have to look at the entirety of their play and see if things make sense. Does Roden - as Cop - play against his own ideas of self preservation by playing highly aggressive D1? Does it make sense that they would want to view Greeting based on the game state?

You’ve now commented on both lead wagons as if they could be Town. Do you have an alternative person you’d like to see eliminated?

[whiskey delta]

@FG

can you go into more detail on your 246?

How do you and Alianna read each other generally?

Same question to

@Alianna

as well.

[whiskey delta]

Hopefully Roden comes back soon and addresses the questions myself and others have. I don’t feel good by how they dropped the claim and left

[whiskey delta]

@FG

can you go into more detail on your 246?

How do you and Alianna read each other generally?

Same question to

@Alianna

as well.

Wait, what exactly did you mean by this question?

I understand that most of your games so far have been together?

I'm asking how you would typically approach reading FG. You disagreed with my read so I was hoping for some insight from someone that has more time with him in game. What are his tells? Have you been able to figure out the difference in his play between alignments?

@FG

please answer this as well irt Alianna. You have her as a mild suspect so I would like to know what you're seeing. Being Alianna'a top TR despite no meta freaks me out a little tbh so I am looking for perspective.

[whiskey delta]

PRs get caught early by making it obvious they don't want attention when they usually play the game in every other game.

It might be a good idea to not blindly scum read anyone who tries to have independent thought.

Thank you.

Yeah I don't really care tbh, I'm mentally checked out at this point.

It's been pretty clear that I'm town simply for the fact I'm actually scum hunting and not playing with self preservation in mind.

Consider it a lesson about how people play the game I guess.

Btw why are we considering anyone other than Furtive if he was one of your top scum reads? Or were you just distancing from your partner?

I'll be honest - you're not really in a position to sit here and condescend after getting E-1'd on D1 as the Cop. For the better part of a week you parked your vote on a player and ignored/handwaved/mischaracterized analysis around them that said you were most likely wrong with your approach. You

still

have yet to answer questions that have been asked irt your case/read on hutmeil. I typed out a paragraph with post numbers included pointing out exactly why I was bothered by you and your response was "you just don't like how I say things" lol like what, dude? I'll take my share of the blame if we really did out the Cop on D1 but let's not pretend it was unwarranted. You'd be hammered by now if not for your claim, so there's that. What made you think playing so far outside of your typical range (according to others) AS THE COP was a good idea? Only now when I squint really hard does it make sense that you were so quick to jump on the PR discussion and sus Greeting for agreeing that your play was off.

Likewise, you say the bold & underlined about your own play but apparently cannot see that I have a similar "bull in China shop" approach. I haven't played in years and knocking the rust off will take time. You all are new to me and I have no idea how the site meta goes, but I'll learn and get better as we go. If you really are Town, then I suggest you step back and clear your head, do whatever you need to do, and look at everything with fresh eyes.

[whiskey delta]

I've played with them in all three of my games thus far, but we were both town in all of those games. I couldn't tell you what scum!furtive looks like, I just haven't noticed anything that strikes me as a deviation from their towngame.

Fair enough. If you had to describe Town!FG in a word or two, what would it be?

[whiskey delta]

From 278

“You actively discouraged people from posting and scum hunting,

and if Furtive flips town then you also played a major part in setting up the town PR and a fellow townie into being forced into a 1v1/chain mis-elim

.”

Couldn’t disagree more about the first sentence but whatever

Bold sounds a little bull in china shop-y to me dude ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

From 286

“Are they going to come out and say things that stick out and sound shady? Or are they going to be reserved and try to sound helpful/solvey?”

Which of these describe me based on what you said above?

[whiskey delta]

VOTE: 72offsuit

[whiskey delta]

Right on time.

UNVOTE:

@Roden - stuff has happened. Things have changed. My reads are not the same and it seems I need to reevaluate completely. You can vote FG if you want. Vote me if you’d like. I don’t care I’m going to keep trucking and we will both just learn to get along

[whiskey delta]

Right on time.

UNVOTE:

@Roden - stuff has happened. Things have changed. My reads are not the same and it seems I need to reevaluate completely. You can vote FG if you want. Vote me if you’d like. I don’t care I’m going to keep trucking and we will both just learn to get along

What did 72 do? What did Furtive do?

Last post of the night

72 was a Hail Mary low poster elim vote - I’ll call it what it is. Timing aside the last two posts they made make me want to see what else they have to say. We are in this spot largely because of consensus so maybe more against the grain reads are warranted.

For FG I think part of it is that they aren’t scum reading me tbh but also because I was so wrong about you I am doubting my scum (and town) reads more generally.

Looking at the wagons at the time of your claim is what is really making me reconsider. My reads can suck but was everyone else just as bad? Counting myself that started your wagon there’s 5 to consider immediately.

Roden - (whiskey) hutmeil, Greeting, FG, Alianna
FG - 72, Roden, whiskey

FG still an option but one I’m way less confident about. I need to review everyone on the wagon again but 6/6 Town is not likely.

[whiskey delta]

Right on time.

UNVOTE:

@Roden - stuff has happened. Things have changed. My reads are not the same and it seems I need to reevaluate completely. You can vote FG if you want. Vote me if you’d like. I don’t care I’m going to keep trucking and we will both just learn to get along

What did 72 do? What did Furtive do?

Last post of the night

72 was a Hail Mary low poster elim vote - I’ll call it what it is. Timing aside the last two posts they made make me want to see what else they have to say. We are in this spot largely because of consensus so maybe more against the grain reads are warranted.

For FG I think part of it is that they aren’t scum reading me tbh but also because I was so wrong about you I am doubting my scum (and town) reads more generally.

Looking at the wagons at the time of your claim is what is really making me reconsider. My reads can suck but was everyone else just as bad? Counting myself that started your wagon there’s 5 to consider immediately.

Roden - (whiskey) hutmeil, Greeting, FG, Alianna
FG - 72, Roden, whiskey

FG still an option but one I’m way less confident about. I need to review everyone on the wagon again but 6/6 Town is not likely.

Why would being wrong about me make you doubt your other top scum read? Are you saying that if you had successfully voted me our Furtive out, and once of us flipped town, then you'd think the other was town?

And you're right, 6/6 town being wrong isn't likely. the odds of town being wrong are extremely low, in fact. That's because there weren't 6/6 townies voting me or suspecting me. There were only 4.

You just seem to be admitting here that you don't want to vote out your scum reads and prefer to just push out a low poster who isn't defending themself.

Players reevaluate all the time. You aren’t flipped but are as good as, and my reads have already changed so what is the point of your question exactly? Clearly my worldview needs adjustment. If I was wrong about you I could just as easily be wrong about others too. I’m not confident that FG flips either way anymore.

6/6 counts everyone on the wagon (including you) which matters for the odds.

I literally just told you I am less sure about all of my reads. I hard charged on a wagon that got the Cop outted. I know you feel righteous in your conftown status but I don’t care. I am resetting and starting over again. Vote me or move on. You’re doing exactly what I did that got Town into this mess by tunneling incessantly.

[whiskey delta]

72’s reads are so anti consensus I think they’re worth considering. Like I said earlier, consensus nearly led to the Cop getting elimmed and if scum I think 72 just stays parked on FG here instead of starting an entirely new wagon.


I’m crazy enough to follow too

VOTE: Alianna

Time for fire drill

[whiskey delta]

Alianna it might be helpful to do literally anything other than snipe at a specific thing a conftown has said to try to discredit them.

This is worth follow up imo. If Roden, FG, and myself are all Town then this fits the bill of scum sitting back and nudging Town squabbles

[whiskey delta]

It seems that you're only ok with tunneling a scum when you do it to confirmed townies, and that because of your "mistake" that no one else is allowed to pursue their scum reads unless it saves Furtive.

What do you think of Furtive blindly defending you and trying to save you from elimination last night even though he said you were scummy and that you were his only current scum read?

For future reference, when you write stuff like you have here in the bold, it's the reason I scum read you. It is a blatant exaggeration and simply not true. Chirp away to your heart's content, I literally cannot stop you, but if you are going to continue asking me questions that are clearly leading and false I will just stop responding to you all together.

Things FG actually said last night:
1) My turn was weird/scummy
2) I am a complex read for him
3) 72 and Tidus were null/scum reads from before
4) He was probably going to eat it anyway

#4 actually has me wanting to TR that slot because of how accepting they seem to be of getting elimmed. Take a step outside your tunnel and consider that for a sec. There is a universe were all three of us are Town and the scum have been under the radar. Think about what you have said regarding scum play vs town play and then reevaluate this D1 - I think you'll find it enlightening.

[whiskey delta]

There's about 1 day to go. I don't like hutmeil's recent posting at all. Alianna isn't really giving me town vibes either.

I think whiskey delta is probably town for their approach to Roden pushing me. I'm kind of townreading Tidus' recent posts also.

Still thinking Greeting/Malakittens are town.

I think 72offsuit is town.

VOTE: Alianna

Nobody has CCed.

Unofficial votecount mostly for my reference.

Alianna (2): 72offsuit, whiskey delta
furtiveglance (1): Roden
hutmeil (1): Tidus of the X


Not Voting (5): Malakittens, hutmeil, Greeting, furtiveglance, Alianna

I need to respond to 72's case and re-evaluate some stuff. It's a maybe.

Scratch that, idk if a response is even worth it.

this page alone makes me think I made a good choice flipping these reads

[whiskey delta]

Which reads did you flip?

You and Alianna, as it were. Not directly correlated to each other, but I am leaning more Town on you so your read on her does impact mine to a degree. So does 72's. I would be lying if I said I wasn't sponging their read but I think they could be on the right track with Alianna/Greeting/hutmeil roughly.

The short and dirty:
I think the way you have largely approached the D1 blunder has been Townie. Instead of switching gears onto me after Roden's reveal and him pressuring you to do so - which there was plenty of opportunity to do - you stayed consistent on your other reads. You also hesitated to vote Roden until I forced you by switching and making you the vote leader instead.

Simply put I think I was too quick to TR Alianna and could have been pocketed instead. I am bothered that she had me at the top of her TRs after I did the same with her first. 72's post (idr the number right now) pointing out the odd read Greeting made on that slot that has me really tinfoiling. Both of those players fit the criteria of what I think scum would look like who were largely out of the spotlight on D1. Both helped to wagon the Cop to E-1 while my big mouth did most of the arguing too.

That's not how that works. If Alianna was scum and knew Furtive was town, she would just sheep the Cop and blame my bad reads once they flip town. Instead, she's showing hesitance, since she's afraid of being wrong and feels pressured to get this vote right. This is a town mindset.

All Furtive and Whiskey care about is making sure each other survive. They don't care if they vote correctly or not, as long as they don't die. This is a scum mindset.

Or could be newbscum who in the span of a few hours went from zero pressure to vote leader and aren't sure how to proceed because they know a FG!town flip would make them look worse after also being on the Cop wagon. She can't just eat this elim if she's scum but she also can't just wagon onto one of her TR's without it looking sketchy.

[whiskey delta]

The Day isn’t over yet, Roden. You’re getting ahead of yourself. Let’s see where the people who aren’t voting actually vote first before declaring them Townie or not.

[whiskey delta]

I can’t with you anymore.

See you post game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[whiskey delta]

I maintain I think Tidus would be trying harder as scum. He’s made one vote all game and is largely just calling out Townie play when he posts. POE bait for sure but not a priority to me right now. I’d go hutmeil first in a run off

[whiskey delta]

If Roden was just scum things would be easier right now

[whiskey delta]

Alianna, do you think everyone on the Roden wagon is Town?

Roden - (whiskey) hutmeil, Greeting, FG, Alianna

[whiskey delta]

Leaving for work but I’ll be ~around

[whiskey delta]

@hutmeil - Votes are a tool to gather information and should be used accordingly. If I wanted to play safe and make friends I’d be doing the opposite - food for thought.

I am claiming intent to hammer.

Someone from the Roden wagon needs to be the elim because I agree with Alianna that there isn’t all Town within that group. I don’t feel great either way about this flip but it’s better than nothing. I’ll be back on my lunch break in a bit

[whiskey delta]

“Reason is scum would want to keep out of the limelight by not being so active but active enough to not get called out”

Wasn’t 72 called out for being inactive though? Isn’t that the entire reason they were even considered for elim? Your theory and stance don’t jive.

[whiskey delta]

Votes are a tool to gather information and should be used accordingly.

Exactly. I'm using your voting history and find that you flip a lot. Just an FoS.

Okay so given what I just said and how I have used my vote what do you think that means?

Back to work now. Lunch soon

[whiskey delta]

I’ll wait for mod to confirm Mala’s vote since there are still a few hours.

At the very least I also want Alianna and Tidus on record here for where they want to vote before I do

[whiskey delta]

“72off wasn't the focus of attention”

Not the main attraction, that’s true, but still regarded with suspicion by several iirc. If their game was to avoid attention by lying low it wasn’t working, which is why I say they don’t/didn’t fit with your theory. I don’t think at any point they have been overlooked for being inactive because that is the primary reason people had them in their POE. Agree to disagree but I don’t think this is great reasoning.

[whiskey delta]

Alianna, do you think everyone on the Roden wagon is Town?

Roden - (whiskey) hutmeil, Greeting, FG, Alianna

No, because otherwise there must be 2 scum in Mala/72/Tidus, which I don’t think there is.

Correct conclusion imo.

Why aren’t you voting?

[whiskey delta]

Greeting fits that “active enough to not raise suspicion but still under the radar” description better imo.

They are either playing a super clean (albeit thus far incorrect) Town game or they are just scum and staying above the fray but still landing on wagons. Their interactions have been fairly minimal. The way they pop in, make a few reads, ask a few questions, drop a vote, and then are gone again is really unsettling to me.

[whiskey delta]

Maybe you understand why I wanted to Cop check him now.

Sadly yes.

[whiskey delta]

Paging Tidus, Alianna, & Mala

Time is running short.

[whiskey delta]

I’ll be here.

Still holding out for a Tidus sighting before ending Day but I will hammer before DL no matter what.

[whiskey delta]

Is anyone around to help ease my passage into spectator chat?

It takes a village to defeat the wolves

Prepare yourself

[whiskey delta]

VOTE: furtiveglance

glgl

[whiskey delta]

VOTE: Greeting

E-2

[whiskey delta]

Roden

- (whiskey delta), hutmeil, Greeting,

FG

, Alianna

furtiveglance

-

Roden

, hutmeil, Greeting, Alianna, WD

There's at least one scum between hutmeil, Greeting, Alianna, and me. The alternative means both scum are within Tidus, malakittens, and 72.

Where does everyone stand on this? Do you think the scum are split between the two groups? Both in one group?

[whiskey delta]

And most importantly who do you think it is?

[whiskey delta]

VOTE: Greeting

VOTE: Greeting

E-2

Why do you think I'm scum?

We’ll call it a hunch. What do you think of my theory that there’s at least one scum between us four?

VOTE: hutmeil

I guess this is an answer in itself but could you add some thoughts too? I liked you D1 for good tone but we are in a different stage of the game now so I would like more opportunity to work with you directly

[whiskey delta]

@

whiskey delta

From my perspective it looks like everyone started ganging up on me one second after I went with the

furtive glance

wagon in 441. I gave him a chance to explain himself and he didn't take it, his reads became erratic and chaotic towards the end. Suffice it to say, I went from being his biggest townread to being his biggest scumread. And everyone just went in for the ride, yourself,

Alianna

,

72offsuit

. If your biggest argument is that you have a hunch then sorry to disappoint, but your hunch is wrong.

It was a high stress time and every vote being laid was pivotal. I think scrutiny is fair, especially given that FG replied to you directly in 442. Depending on how you view Mala's 439 that makes your vote the one that tied the FG and Alianna wagons. I would say it is more than a hunch at the moment, but I am not totally convinced yet either. At least one of you, hutmeil, and Alianna must be Town so that is good to remember.

If you're seeking to blame me for yesterday's miselim, Day 1 was ending, I didn't feel like going after

hutmeil

and the other two wagons were

Alianna

and

furtive glance

. I picked the scummier one and I'm not sorry for that. If I'm scum then why did all of you follow when I was supposedly miseliminating a townie? Sounds like someone who jumped on that wagon after me knew what was coming (aka they were scum) and were hoping to pin the miselimination on me.

Someone had to hammer and you need flips to solve the game. It would have been criminal to not elim FG after his counter wagon hit E-2 first. The board is clearer now so if you are Town, perhaps you will have a better view.

As for your theory, I would say that there's a higher chance that it's true than not overall, if we take all mafia games played on this site. In most games I've played the scums have tended to spread their votes amongst wagons. Which would indeed mean that there is one scum in {

whiskey delta

,

Alianna

,

Greeting

,

hutmeil

} and the other would be in {

Malakittens

,

Tidus of the X

and

72offsuit

}.

The maths in my head said it's

Alianna

and

72offsuit

. But I don't really think that

Alianna

and

72offsuit

would be paired.

72offsuit

seemed to be quite confident to bet his money on the

Alianna

wagon, he started it, went through with it and did not hesitate to try and have her chopped down.

If

Malakittens

is scum then that means she has really upped her scum game and she deserves to win, because I kinda have a green town check on her which I don't feel like looking back at.

Who's left from that three?

Tidus of the X

. Eh, could be.

I will need to think deeper tomorrow, because I also have a feeling that if

Alianna

is scum, and I certainly have a feeling that she might be, then her partner was on the

furtive glance

wagon to save her, because losing a fellow scum Day 1 is something the scums usually can't afford. Which would mean that this game is in the minority of games where all scums are to be found in one wagon and {

Malakittens

,

Tidus of the X

and

72offsuit

} are all towncleared. This is also a mental note to myself to remember where to pick up my thoughts from when I open this thread tomorrow.

I agree that 72/Alianna does not make a likely pair. Considering Mala's vote was not counted, hutmeil and Alianna functioned as the tying and tiebreaking vote that pushed FG to E-1. There is definitely potential for hutmeil/Alianna in that lens.

Any perspective on how you arrived to your TR on Mala would be greatly appreciated.

[whiskey delta]

I don't really know if Greeting is scum or not, he's been pretty active and contributed a bunch day one IIRC, but with everyone suddenly turning on him, I'm not so sure about it.

Remember that at least two players amongst myself, Greeting, hutmeil, and Alianna are Town so still possible Greeting is. What do you think of the other three? How about Mala and 72?

Sorry

I was so tired that morning that I screwed up the formatting

I still want to lim hutmeil. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but now I just want
Him dead so

Do you still see Greeting as Town? How would you know? It seems you two have some experience together so I am really curious to hear about it. Can you talk about why hutmeil and what a scum or town flip would do to your reads?

[whiskey delta]

So the more I think about the game the more I think an Alianna elim makes the most sense today.

I can’t get over how she was E-2 and still the FG wagon eventually took the lead. That has to be significant. If all three major D1 wagons were Town then we’re in trouble. If Alianna is scum her partner has to be within Greeting/Hutmeil/Mala who all voted to save her over FG.

Thoughts?

[whiskey delta]

Roden

- (whiskey delta), hutmeil, Greeting,

FG

, Alianna

furtiveglance

-

Roden

, hutmeil, Greeting, Alianna, WD

There's at least one scum between hutmeil, Greeting, Alianna, and me. The alternative means both scum are within Tidus, malakittens, and 72.

Where does everyone stand on this? Do you think the scum are split between the two groups? Both in one group?

I don't really know. My scumdar was way off on Day 1. But if I have to rely on it again, it would be a combination of you (whiskey), Greeting, Tidus and 72off.

Why not Alianna/Mala? Tidus did not vote on any of the wagons yesterday. Do you think that is more likely to be Town or scum?

So the more I think about the game the more I think an Alianna elim makes the most sense today.

I can’t get over how she was E-2 and still the FG wagon eventually took the lead. That has to be significant. If all three major D1 wagons were Town then we’re in trouble. If Alianna is scum her partner has to be within Greeting/Hutmeil/Mala who all voted to save her over FG.

Thoughts?

That makes sense. However, you're on both wagons. You flipped from Alianna to FG. And you're the eliminating vote. Come to think of it, you're also on the Roden wagon.

This is true, as were you, and exactly why we are having this conversation. It's extremely unlikely there isn't at least one scum in those who were on both Roden and FG wagons.

I switched to FG to hammer after waiting until almost the last minute, and no one else was around to do it. If you reread the end of D1 you will see my preferred elim was Alianna. Would you rather I have not hammered in that situation?

I don't really know if Greeting is scum or not, he's been pretty active and contributed a bunch day one IIRC, but with everyone suddenly turning on him, I'm not so sure about it.

Remember that at least two players amongst myself, Greeting, hutmeil, and Alianna are Town so still possible Greeting is. What do you think of the other three? How about Mala and 72?

I don't know about hutmeil or you much, but Alianna I feel could be scum. Mala could likely be scum for seemingly randomly focusing on a random player. Current town lean on 72offsuit.

Is there a reason you didn't try voting anyone on D1?

Any perspective on how you arrived to your TR on Mala would be greatly appreciated.

I have played a few games with

Malakittens

and my overall impression is that she's generally not a deepwolf. In the last game we played together, KTaNE, it became apparent to me that she just doesn't like playing as scum very much and doesn't try very hard if she rolls scum. If you're interested specifically at the moment when we were talking about deepwolves, you should look at the Day Phase in that game when

Mala

was eliminated (Day 3).

But now that you've pointed it out, she did in fact want to go after

furtive glance

and her vote just wasn't counted as valid.

I will have to check that out later, but greatly appreciated. Can you tell me what you think of 503?

So the more I think about the game the more I think an Alianna elim makes the most sense today.

I can’t get over how she was E-2 and still the FG wagon eventually took the lead. That has to be significant. If all three major D1 wagons were Town then we’re in trouble. If Alianna is scum her partner has to be within Greeting/Hutmeil/Mala who all voted to save her over FG.

Thoughts?

Right now my money is on the scum team being

Alianna

+ someone on the

furtive glance

wagon. I know it's not me for sure and nothing else. I guess if we eliminate

Alianna

then we can put this theory to test. If she flips red, then her partner should be

hutmeil

(more likely) or

Malakittens

(less likely). If she flips green, then it's got to be some combo like

72offsuit

/

Tidus of the X

,

72offsuit

/

hutmeil

or

Tidus of the X

/

hutmeil

.

Or... it's you. What

hutmeil

said in 507 about you is actually right. I don't know if I should trust you either. You're clearly aspiring to be town leader, but your voting history isn't really better than mine and yet you're actively trying to throw me under the bus right now.

I'll wait for everyone to weigh in before I cast my vote. It's still only Day 2, but each vote is more valuable with every townie going down and we are not having another miselimination today.

[Alianna/Hutmeil] as the solve does make ~sense for VCA reasons but I am paranoid is too simple.

I'll ask you the same question irt Tidus - what do you think not casting a serious vote D1 says about their alignment?

You should know if you are Town that my voting history doesn't make me scum, since it matches yours. If anything, I might say I have a point in my favor if Alianna flips red.

At the moment my vote is working accordingly, as this is the most you have talked to me directly all game. There is still plenty of time, but I agree that today is a pivotal phase. I do not want to elim wrong again.

[whiskey delta]

Roden

- (whiskey delta), hutmeil, Greeting,

FG

, Alianna

furtiveglance

-

Roden

, hutmeil, Greeting, Alianna, WD

There's at least one scum between hutmeil, Greeting, Alianna, and me. The alternative means both scum are within Tidus, malakittens, and 72.

Where does everyone stand on this? Do you think the scum are split between the two groups? Both in one group?

I don't have the time or energy right now to analyze any of this, but a couple things to note. It's interesting that everyone was either on or off of both major wagons.
If we consider my wagon when it was at E-2...

Alianna - 72offsuit, whiskey delta,

furtiveglance

...then we see that Mala and Tidus were on none of those (Mala didn't vote D1 and Tidus stuck to his RVS vote) and whiskey was on all three.
Make of it what you will, I guess? I'll probably follow this up at some point but wanted to note this stuff now.

Even passing, throw away thoughts are better than just the summaries of events.

I wish I could go back to that time before Roden claimed Cop, when I had you at the top of my Town list for what I thought might have been the best post of the game up to that point, but I'm not there anymore. I want so badly to have read you correctly there, and to have been seen accordingly, but I can't underestimate anyone and I'm very bothered by how you were closer to elimination that close to deadline and FG still happened.

[whiskey delta]

I'm afraid you don't know the curse I live with. There seems to be a pattern in the way I get read on D1. In every game I've played except the one I replaced out of, I've been at least somewhat townread early D1 and then rather quickly brought to E-2 later on. But somehow, I manage to live. I find it amusing how like clockwork it is. Should that affect your read on me? I don't know. But it is a pattern lol.

I’m afraid I don’t know anything about you as a player at all, which makes things harder obviously. I won’t lie, I’m worried you are scum but I’m more worried you are Town and I tinfoiled on you after I felt so good about my first read. Is it possible that you’re town too and scum had three wagons to choose from? Crazier things have happened in Mafia. I’m trying to approach this group with an open mind.

Mechanically I think you are the best elim but it’s impossible for more than two in the group to be scum so there is still the possibility of it not being you. I’m also aware the mechanics can be misleading sometimes so I can’t rely solely on that.

Having said all that, can you tell me why you waited so long to vote FG?

[whiskey delta]

(How do i quote only one part of a post) I had no idea if I actually should vote, since i didn't have any idea at all of who could be scum and it would ge a hammer vote when I did want to vote

You have to go in and delete the stuff you don’t want from the editing window.

I get being unsure and not wanting to get it wrong, but it is important for you to use your vote. Flips are an important part of the game to solve it, and there is a reason Town has a few chances to be wrong before the game ends.

Take for instance the D1 wagons at the end. I had no choice but to hammer FG because it was the only wagon in position. In this scenario, if Alianna is scum, she was saved because your vote was on neither wagon. Does that make sense? If you are Town your vote is

needed

to give Town a chance to elim scum.

[whiskey delta]

IIRC, I didn't really scumread them. Roden was my only real scumread, but we all know how that went down. There was very little time to rethink, but the last thing I wanted was a no-lim (imagine if we did that, there was a doc, and we went into D2 with all 9 people?). The options were me (not happening), hutmeil (who I was townreading), and furtive (who I was nullreading).

I can only take your reads at face value but I was pretty sure FG was Town when I hammered him. The fact you two have experience and he’s calling you scum sketches me out. When you get the chance to dig in (I know you’re VLA) I would love to see where you stand on things.

I have a really dumb reason to TR you but it relies on the theory that you couldn’t do something as scum. You’re new but you’ve got chops so idk and I am fully aware of how pocketable I am.

[whiskey delta]

vote count 1.12

There are nearly 130 different species of duck in the world! They are also close relatives of other waterfowl, like swans and geese (who are emphatically not the best birds).

---

furtiveglance (2): 72offsuit, Roden
hutmeil (1): Tidus of the X

Not Voting (6): Malakittens, hutmeil, Greeting, furtiveglance, Alianna, whiskey delta

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to reach an elimination.

Day one will end in (expired on 2022-06-04 10:00:00)

---

Mod notes:

• quack.

vote count 1.13

Ducks' bills are sensitive! They have many touch receptors, making them kinda like hands or palms!

---

Alianna (3): 72offsuit, whiskey delta, furtiveglance
furtiveglance (1): Roden
hutmeil (1): Tidus of the X


Not Voting (4): Malakittens, hutmeil, Greeting, Alianna

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to reach an elimination.

Day one will end in (expired on 2022-06-04 10:00:00)

---

Mod notes:

• quack.

Sure, but did u consider Furtive and I,
being partners in crime,
Directing away votes so he doesn't die,
Look at that, another rhyme,
Ask yourself why,
I'm right on time!

So it was for hutmeil then?

[whiskey delta]

Like I said it’s really dumb and probably more reliable later in the game, so I’ll hold it for now. I’d need to ISO you before making any blanket statements anyway.

Another thought just occurred to me as well… I don’t love your posts immediately after the hammer, but then again actually

being there

might be a good sign. If scum, once you voted FG to put them at E-1 I feel like melting away would have been more likely. I’ll need to look at that whole sequence again too. If you hung around to watch your victim die that’s some pretty hardcore stuff for a first time wolf.

[whiskey delta]

Finish reading and we’ll talk then.

[whiskey delta]

Why not Alianna/Mala? Tidus did not vote on any of the wagons yesterday. Do you think that is more likely to be Town or scum?

As I will mention below, Aliana is my TR. I'm neutral on Mala but she seems town. As for Tidus, most of his posts are safe posts and he's lying low most of the time. So FoS. If he's strategy is to lie low, then he won't wagon as much as possible so as not to attract attention to himself.

This is true, as were you, and exactly why we are having this conversation. It's extremely unlikely there isn't at least one scum in those who were on both Roden and FG wagons.

I switched to FG to hammer after waiting until almost the last minute, and no one else was around to do it. If you reread the end of D1 you will see my preferred elim was Alianna. Would you rather I have not hammered in that situation?

That's partially true (which makes it false?). I voted for Roden (for bandwagoning) and Furtive (when Roden turned out TC). I never voted for Aliana and she's my TR. As for hammering, it's not really conclusive but of course it's in the scum's best interest for a mislynch. If time's running out and no one wants to do it, scum will very much be tempted to hammer.

(How do i quote only one part of a post)

Lol, same question. What I do is, copy the quote and use the quote button. It's a hassle but it is what it is.

1) Can you elaborate why them seem Town to you? irt Tidus, consider that if he were scum that he would be in a PT with another player that could give him advice on how to play. To me he seems more like newbTown moving his way thru the dark.

2) I’m only talking about the Roden and FG wagons (which I was on twice technically). You covered why scum!WD would hammer. Why would town!WD?

3) It is a bit annoying lol. Look into BBCode

So the more I think about the game the more I think an Alianna elim makes the most sense today.

I can’t get over how she was E-2 and still the FG wagon eventually took the lead. That has to be significant. If all three major D1 wagons were Town then we’re in trouble. If Alianna is scum her partner has to be within Greeting/Hutmeil/Mala who all voted to save her over FG.

Thoughts?

Re-read some posts. Are you going to unvote and vote for Alianna then?

I’m still considering it. I’m also waiting to see what other people are going to say when they are caught up/not VLA. We have time

How does my theory affect your TR now that you’ve looked at it a second time?

[whiskey delta]

I can’t with you anymore.

See you post game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not going to base an entire scumread off this, but this feels really sketchy, as if they knew Roden was dying because no doc.

Oof I dig that

There you are

[whiskey delta]

I think we should remember to include Mala’s vote on FG.

It wasn’t counted, but it was made.

[whiskey delta]

Somehow I keep forgetting about that.

Just don’t forget about Mala

If it’s easier you can just call me WD, btw. That goes for everyone else too

[whiskey delta]

A lot of your questions would be answered if you finished reading. D1 was a mess, yes, but you have the added advantage of reading everything for the first time with flips in mind. Remember that not all of us had that benefit before you start to push narratives (especially before finishing your read)

This is only going to fuel BBT’s theory that he is already projecting, but I may be coming full circle on Alanna.

If me, her, Tidus and hutmeil are all Town that leaves [Mala, BBT, Greeting]

And I have rather liked Greeting so far this D2

@BBT - your predecessor called me obvTown. I’d like to know why disagree by the time you end your reread if you still do

[whiskey delta]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Mala

Into the darkness I go.

[whiskey delta]

Finish reading and see if you can figure it out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[whiskey delta]

You should see that I had nothing to do with FG getting ran up the second time and only switched to hammer.

I’ve flipped my read on that slot twice now. Is that more likely scum or Town?

[whiskey delta]

Uh huh. The flow you would need to see by reading, right?

Which you haven’t done…. But are still setting us up as teammates. From page 5 reads. In a 24 page long game…

[whiskey delta]

A lot of your questions would be answered if you finished reading. D1 was a mess, yes, but you have the added advantage of reading everything for the first time with flips in mind. Remember that not all of us had that benefit before you start to push narratives (especially before finishing your read)

This is only going to fuel BBT’s theory that he is already projecting, but I may be coming full circle on Alanna.

If me, her, Tidus and hutmeil are all Town that leaves [Mala, BBT, Greeting]

And I have rather liked Greeting so far this D2

@BBT - your predecessor called me obvTown. I’d like to know why disagree by the time you end your reread if you still do

So what you're saying is that Mala and BBT are highly likely scum?

My read hinges entirely on Alianna’s alignment. She is the puzzle piece that if I can figure out I think I will have the game solved. Eliminating her is the only surefire way of doing this, but if I can maybe read her instead that prevents me from potentially pushing in the wrong direction again. Right now I’d say town and that might be the hill I die on. Unless it’s her/hutmeil exactly then she is probably just Town.

In a D1 where most of the fighting was between me, Roden, and FG - where do you think the scum go? I TR 72 really hard for going in a new direction D1 but if they were just staying out of the mess and pushing a new Townie wagon that also makes sense. I need to read more but I don’t remember 72 making comments about Mala and she only called him null iirc. BBT’s comment to Mala about “better be off that wagon” bugs me (which she wasn’t btw. Her vote just didn’t count)

[whiskey delta]

This is going to sound stupid but one reason I’m doubting my Alianna SR is because I put a lot of weight into players’ involvement. There have been spurts where I thought Alianna was more fluff than solve but she’s still new so maybe I need to skew that perspective. I think her

being here

is a good thing more likely than not. Like I said if she’s scum she waited all the way thru hammer to watch FG go. Not impossible but that would be some wolfy shit for a first timer.

Maybe I am focusing too hard on the wagonomics and ignoring the possibility scum could have just stayed away completely.

BBT howling on his intro doesn’t help either. Seriously, read the game before you push narratives.

[whiskey delta]

So what you're saying is that Mala and BBT are highly likely scum?

Coming back to this. What I am saying is that if I am right about you being Town, and Alianna is Town and right about hutmeil being Town, then that only leaves three players for the scum to be in. 72(BBT)/Greeting seems unlikely. If Greeting is the last Townie then that only leaves 72(BBT)/Mala left over.

What do you think?

[whiskey delta]

I read the game. I got 2 scum reads in 5 pages, why read more?

Fighting between 3 people on D1 and 2 of them are conf town? Highly unlikely to be 3 townies, me thinks.

I expected Mala to be off the wagon because Furtive was obvtown in the first 2 pages. I think Mala probably picks up on that.

Normally I'd agree but I know I am Town this time so if that's possible, so is anything as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe check out the Mala ISO and see what you think. Also remember takot syndrone was their alt to start the game

Read up to page 15, Whiskey is still scum.

Also, the timing of Greeting's push on Furtive as it looks like an Alianna wagon could potentially take off is noted.

Feel good that scum is here; Whiskey, Alianna and Greeting.

You keep calling me scum but show no reason trolling me will not get me to TR you if that is your aim

Whiskey had a good couple of pages there, 16 and 17. Really liked your posting.

Hmm, Alianna is still a scum read and she has to go Today.

Thank you. I rather liked those ones too. 396 in particular felt like a slam dunk and still might be. 400 is gold if correct but also the sort of narrative that scum can run with to end game. D1 was so weird that I have come around to thinking I shouldn't discount anything. Like I have said before, it's impossible that there is more than two scum in [WD, hutmeil, Greeting, Alianna] but it's also possible there is none.

[whiskey delta]

Alianna, do you think everyone on the Roden wagon is Town?

Roden - (whiskey) hutmeil, Greeting, FG, Alianna

The game is riding on this question lol

[whiskey delta]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Mala

Into the darkness I go.

I've been thinking about this as well, but I'd rather see the

Alianna

flip first.

I can see where your head is at and I understand. It makes sense for a lot of reasons but feels kinda bad? Logic says to elim Alianna but my soul read is less sure.

I overlooked Mala D1 but they have trended downward quickly. Hutmeil SR is the same one they have had from intro and I don't see much process going on to figure it out. Tidus might have nailed this one.

[whiskey delta]

I'm caught up. Greeting has been scum reading Alianna for a while now with no vote. Interesting.

I'm only eliminating between Greeting and Alianna Today. Nobody else.

In your own words, why are each of them scum?

[whiskey delta]

It’s literally a coin flip whether or not there is a doc and Roden was dead man walking as soon as he claimed. It’s a stretch to TMI that

@Alianna - where is your head right now?

[whiskey delta]

yeahhhh idk

UNVOTE:

[whiskey delta]

Wait so you’re saying the post that drew the Cop out to SR you was just a reaction test? Why haven’t you said so until now?

[whiskey delta]

Also fwiw Mala was worrying me but her tone is back on these last two pages. Alianna following me lead and flirting with my elim at the same time feels bad.

There’s about 2 days left before DL. Everyone should be casting their votes at this point

[whiskey delta]

BBT calls everyone scum. It probablyincreases the likelihood of players being Town what do you mean by “towns himself” ?

You’re reading my posts in the wrong light, hutmeil. I questioned your original “reaction test” and it was Alianna’s 79 that talked me down. If anyone has been defending you all game it’s her. The TR hasn’t wavered from what I can tell. Aggression =/= scum (if anything the opposite might be more true) but at least you’re putting the chips down.

[whiskey delta]

There's about 1 day to go. I don't like hutmeil's recent posting at all. Alianna isn't really giving me town vibes either.

I think whiskey delta is probably town for their approach to Roden pushing me. I'm kind of townreading Tidus' recent posts also.

Still thinking Greeting/Malakittens are town.

I think 72offsuit is town.

VOTE: Alianna

Nobody has CCed.

Unofficial votecount mostly for my reference.

Alianna (2): 72offsuit, whiskey delta
furtiveglance (1): Roden
hutmeil (1): Tidus of the X


Not Voting (5): Malakittens, hutmeil, Greeting, furtiveglance, Alianna

I need to respond to 72's case and re-evaluate some stuff. It's a maybe.

Scratch that, idk if a response is even worth it.

this page alone makes me think I made a good choice flipping these reads

Going back to this post to remind myself and others.

VOTE: Alianna

[whiskey delta]

I should probably defend myself, but in all honesty, I would love nothing more than to be yeeted into the stratosphere.

This is not the way to go out if you are Town. I have spent not a small amount of time D2 specifically working over my read on you despite having many reasons to just condemn you, and you haven’t responded to it at all. The only things you’ve said addressing me were agreeing on my Tidus read (and applying it to hutmeil), asking if I think Greeting/Mala are possible (not likely imo), and then saying my post to the outed Cop might be TMI.

If you flip green tmrw is ELO and it’s probably curtains for Town.

I'm not liking whiskey's willingness to throw their vote wherever.

I only have to get it right once. Thought exercise: who fits as my partner then? I have voted just about everyone on the roster outside Tidus/hutmeil at this point.

[whiskey delta]

The towns himself comment was you talking up your own town play. Like, you knew I was scum reading you but you also thought that you played so much better later in the game so would be confident I would change my read.
You then bigging up particular points of your own really set off red flags for me.

You think me going back and seeing what posts you were referring to means anything other than me double checking to see you aren’t full of shit?

And yeah, like I stated. If my reads are correct there then awesome! If not, they are a good route for the wolves to get to ELO where I can be elimmed so I’m also not totally shocked you latched onto those particular ones.

[whiskey delta]

UNVOTE:

Not yet

[whiskey delta]

Tidus - big Day. Need your thoughts, whatever they may be.

[whiskey delta]

I’m actually kinda bothered you aren’t correcting hutmeil about his aggressive = scum theory @BBT considering that seems to be about the entirety of your playstyle. You still haven’t said why you think I am scum aside from apparently not liking some of my posts but liking others enough to run with my theory on an Alianna/Greetings team. Your stances aren’t really adding up

[whiskey delta]

Friday nights are family time.

VOTE: Alianna

E-1. If this flips red I’ll happily go next.

[whiskey delta]

I honestly do not know what she’s going to flip. Logic says one thing but my gut says another
I hope red. I’m preparing for green.

[whiskey delta]

But I also know how this game goes. I’ve spent all Day being wishy washy. Standing in the way of a scum elim (that I tried to help push thru D1, but let’s ignore that). This flips red and I’ll take that elim since we’ll be able to. D4 becomes ELO instead.

[whiskey delta]

1 day 15 hours left.

We just waiting for another flash wagon?

I think we hit the nail on the head with this elimination and that's why the wagon isn't building up. If the team is

Alianna

/

whiskey delta

, then the latter will do everything he can to derail this. He suddenly stopped responding to you too and that kinda sounds like admission of guilt.

This isn’t a thing for me. Part of my problem is I don’t know when to shut up as evidenced by my play today. I’m getting too soft for this game maybe I have all the reasons to condemn Alianna but I still hope for a glimmer of Townie to shine thru.


We’ll see where I was right and where I was wrong after the game. Alianna isn’t here defending. I’m not going to do it for her and she already tried following me elsewhere (which I stopped, but let’s ignore that too).

Time to flip and see what turns up. Im probably dead D3 no matter what so let’s just do it

[whiskey delta]

Respect that.

Hammer then - make your first meaningful vote a good one.

[whiskey delta]

So what's everyone's thoughts on who should be eliminated today? I would want to eliminate either hutmeil or WD today.

Can you state your reasons why?

[whiskey delta]

“I think mod would want at least one SE on the scum side”

That’s not how role assignments work (or they shouldn’t). It’s supposed to be random.

[whiskey delta]

There’s really not much for me to say here. I played a bad game and it is what it is. I really have no clue who the scum could be at this point. At the very least let everyone post before any votes are thrown down.

[whiskey delta]

“I think mod would want at least one SE on the scum side”

That’s not how role assignments work (or they shouldn’t). It’s supposed to be random.

I disagree. This is a newbie game. If all 3 SEs are Town, scum would be at a great disadvantage which is not good for the game. If I were the mod, I'd want to keep the game balanced and not lopsided. Are you trying to save Greeting?

As Greeting already clarified, this simply isn’t a thing. How does that affect your read now?

[whiskey delta]

Hutmeil

Really needs to go

Can I at least get my one lim please?

I been on my game lately in general with reads

Go on…

[whiskey delta]

I’m sort of in a spot where I think Mala could be scum. For their experience level their involvement has been very slim. That hutmeil read has been carried since D1 and there’s no real push to get it done. They have voted both FG/Alianna. They came to life a little yesterday when Alianna tied their wagon with hers, and since I was still sus of Alianna I backed off, but now after the hammer and flip they are back on hutneil. Idk

I’m not sure Greeting/Mala is the answer but I do think they just TR each other and moved on which does worry me somewhat. Mala, you never answered my questions irt Greeting on D2. Greeting, yoj said you thought about following my vote on Mala yesterday. Where do you stand on that now?

[whiskey delta]

Be specific please. What posts?

I am flipping Town so my elim ends the game. I know that means next to nothing to anyone at this point but at the very least present some actual posts that I can comment on.

[whiskey delta]

I would vote Mala. It has taken them 2 1/2 game Days to exceed the post count they did with their alt in half of D1 and they have basically had one read all game. If this isn’t scum they sure didn’t help Town any by redirecting anyone onto their SR that they’ve held since D1

I really expected Greeting to be dead here but maybe it’s just Greeting/Mala for ignoring each other and they carried me to ELO for the final mislim with the two newbs who were pointing at me already. I suppose Mala/hutmeil is possible too looking at how he’s saying it’s me/Greeting or me/Tidus

My reads have been so bad all game I really don’t have the confidence or energy to keep at it. My best guess is just to look at those who have left Town to cannibalize itself that aren’t explicitly newbies playing in one of their first several games. If it’s Tidus then don’t expect to continue getting away with doing nothing in the future. Eventually that newbie shine will be gone and you’ll be expected to do things other than passively comment and not vote the entire game.

[whiskey delta]

^^^ should add that hutmeil doesn’t seem at all bothered for being SR by the same player all game.

Mala is neutral because why?

[whiskey delta]

No rebuttal honestly. I played like shit and deserve this elim.

Hammer away. Sorry Town

[whiskey delta]

VOTE: Greeting

If we’re both Town then scum can choose which to hammer since you are apparently confident enough not to worry about a speed hammer in ELO. If not then good game. Wish I had pushed you harder D2

[whiskey delta]

Idk what to tell you. You act like I haven’t labored and poured a lot of energy and time into this game already. The writing was all the wall that I was most likely getting elimmed today. My last hope was an Alianna scum flip and even then my play D2 still made me look bad. It was a lose/lose. I have no clue why you are Town reading Mala based on their ISO. It seems you two town locked each other D1 and it hasn’t moved. I am suspect of this, like I already said. If Tidus is scum he played the most chickenshit game I have ever seen but I sort of wrote him off a while ago. Hutmeil is possible. I think his read on Mala and vice versa are weird. She wants him dead but has done what exactly to achieve that? Meanwhile he seems perfectly fine being SR by someone persistently throughout the entire game and doesn’t question it. All of this I have pointed out but you will make your own conclusions. I don’t really care anymore.

Sleep well. If you’re Town then we both sucked. If you’re scum then I will take some solace knowing I pegged you at one point and just got distracted in typical Town fashion.

It’s your and Mala or it’s Mala and hutmeil. Final answer

VOTE: Mala

Give me the sweet release of death.

[whiskey delta]

Last question to Greeting: why do you think BBT was killed over you?

[whiskey delta]

UNVOTE:

[whiskey delta]

VOTE: hutmeil

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[whiskey delta]

Yes indeed. If I vote everyone I’ll get it right eventually no?

[whiskey delta]

VOTE: Tidus

[whiskey delta]

VOTE: Whiskey

gg and gn.

[whiskey delta]

Sorry again everyone. Over-thinking and second guessing everything killed me this game - and just poor reads in general I guess. My playing days are probably behind me and I should just accept that

[whiskey delta]

whiskey delta, I'm leaving my investigating kit to you. Lead on Greeting tomorrow.

I let you down big time

I was so confident in that read by the end of D1 too. Ugh - I let him off the hook way too easy and the BBT sub really threw me off. Plus the wagonomics that I let take over my entire filter

just bad. really bad.

[whiskey delta]

Congrats to the Mafia too.

Greeting, part of why I doubted was because I basically had the same record as you so figured if I could then so could others. I got really preoccupied with other silly stuff that took me out of focus on you but you were convincing enough to make me always question my doubts. Well played.

Tidus, what I said about your game isn’t true. Sorry for saying that. You genuinely had me believing you were just a newb lost in the sauce. I don’t think anyone will make that mistake anymore