Newbie 2100 | Town wins

[Salsabil Faria]

Hi everyone, happy Thursday...

VOTE: Kitty

[Salsabil Faria]

Hello! Of this

role list

, I only remember Greeting and Salsabil Faria.

It's weird to say role list rather than player list

Btw, I don’t remember playing with you

[Salsabil Faria]

Hello! Of this

role list

, I only remember Greeting and Salsabil Faria.

It's weird to say role list rather than player list

Btw, I don’t remember playing with you

Agreed, very strange wording. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to press on this topic, though.

Yeah, right but it would be if it's a

scum-slip

. Iirr,

Kitty

isn't a total newb and the wording can't be proved as a slip, so I'm gonna drop the theory for now.

UNVOTE: Kitty

@ Greeting or anyone.

How do we jump start a slow game?

I AM Town, and I wanna win.

@ Calum No not really, I've used it before.

You say you're new but that doesn't mean you're not scum. You seem kinda off kilter this early, if that's even the right way to describe it.

Are you scum?

@ emollient You've become my newest, and maybe strongest town read.

70 was very good! I sure hope you're on our side!

Don't like these. Reasons:

1.

Re:65>> Buddy attempt to town!

Greeting

or scum-theatre attempt with scum!

Greeting

. The underlined part is read to me like what a (newb) scum would say, "

Look, I'm town!

". [There is a term here for it, can't remember]

2.

Re:68>> Useless question, as if scum!

Calum

will admit if he is scum... seems '

asking for the sake of asking

' kind of situation.

3.

Re:72>> Pocketing attempt to town!

Emollient

as soon as he post 70 which is also a empty post per se...

VOTE: Wayward

Early townleans:

Wayward Son

- Easily the towniest ISO so far in this game, committed to making meta reads (20), progressing the game (65).

The second one is more important, as dead games always favour scum who can hide in the shadows and do nothing. It's uncommon for mafia-aligned players, especially newbies to have the drive to make fake progress in a game.

Not agree. Saw the opposite, and done the opposite.

I would say that a lot of players in this game are "unusually passive". Let's start with the SEs. I've already asked

Kitty

.

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Hi there! Now that I've got your attention, what are your reads on the game so far?

Spoiler:

Opposite of your

Wayward

read, null/scum; null/townread on

Calum

, like his posts on page 3 (though I'm not sure about his 58 yet) & on

CornPuffBuddha

for 82 mainly, seems like we're on the same page; rests are null for now.

[Salsabil Faria]

3. Re:72>> Pocketing attempt to town!Emollient as soon as he post 70 which is also a empty post per se...

You agree that Emollient is probably Town?

???
Town!x or scum!x means a hypothesis where x is town or scum. The previous 2 points also have the same wordings.

My initial votes were intentionally strange for the purpose of getting reactions.

What did you find from it?

Greeting's non-reaction to my vote and getting on with moving the game forward does seem slightly townie,

I guess, though it could be scum doing well at appearing town. I do find it a bit strange that he asked cornpuff if we've played together before. I didn't mention having any experience here (41). This is my second game here and the first is still ongoing.

My scum reads are Wayward, Greeting,

maybe Calum. Kitty's inactivity is suspicious. Though none of my scum reads are very strong yet, I will VOTE: Wayward because it is the strongest nonetheless.

Can't follow your progression here from slightly townread

Greeting

to scumread him.

1. Re:65>> Buddy attempt to town!Greeting or scum-theatre attempt with scum!Greeting. The underlined part is read to me like what a (newb) scum would say, "Look, I'm town!". [There is a term here for it, can't remember]

How often would you say scum theatre happens on Day 1 page 1/2 in your experience?

There is no right answer for it, totally depends on the team but in one of my scum games, my team started scum theatre early and won because of it. Maybe scum theatre won't be the right word for what I pointed out, '

forced/weird convo between scum partners

' kinda situation was in my head.

[In the meantime,

@Calum

... please explain your 58, why should we choose between

BloodB0t

&

Tejate

to vote when we have 6 more players (excluding you)? Also, what are your reads atm?]

"Greeting's non-reaction to my vote and getting on with moving the game forward does seem slightly townie, I guess, though it could be scum doing well at appearing town. I do find it a bit strange that he asked cornpuff if we've played together before. I didn't mention having any experience here (41). This is my second game here and the first is still ongoing."

-I don't know if I'd call not reacting to a vote townie - I'd expect a townie to be less conflict avoidant than scum, though it could just come down to playstyle.

What did you mean here?

I'm surprised to read that my #70 is seen as "empty"... I just looked at the ISOs and summarized in 1 sentence the "feeling" I had about them.

The

feeling

isn't clear to me. You said what everyone was doing but what that meant to you wasn't mentioned. What are your reads atm?

I could be convinced either way when it comes to Blood. If I had to vote anyone right now I think it would be Kitty or Wayward. Emollient seems pretty townie to me. Will probably put a readslist at some point tomorrow, depending on if anything interesting happens.

Can you walk me through your

BloodB0t

suspicion? I need to read his iso because don't remember the earlier posts but recent posts don't seem sus to me.
I can see why you townread

Emollient

but I need more game-related content from him, so he is in null-list for now. I'm getting suspicious about

Kitty

, he popped in the thread & made some fluff posts, with no game-engaging content whatsoever... so null/scum;

Calum

need to post more, not in null/town-list anymore.

@Kitty

, your read-list?


[I like

Tejate

's 115, though it's a theory based but don't find scummy vibe from it..... not enough to give them townread yet but can say,

Tejate

&

Calum

aren't SvS.]

Spoiler:

Calum and Salsabil Faria have been prodded.

I was just pondering

a potential

Tejate

/

BloodB0t

team.

Can you explain, why you think they can be the scumteam?


[It appears that I still can't see the scum!

BloodB0t

territory, gonna iso him up so that I can understand the scumread.]

[Salsabil Faria]

We have more than 4 days and why the hell do you think,

BloodB0t

, that putting someone on E-1 this early would be a good idea as town!!!! Don't like it at all.

In town!

Calum

scenario, I think scums are already on the wagon as after 138, no one ended the day early >> Theory 01
[I also don't like the fact that

Calum

ignored my questions about him in my 127 + his 134 is just bad]

There is at least one scum in them (hopefully 2) {

Calum

,

Greeting

,

BloodB0t

,

Wayward

,

Tejate

} >> Theory 02 (based on interactions with each other +

if x flip green so y will be scum

theory)

Townreads:

CornPuffBuddha

,

Emollient

FYI, I skimmed after my last post, so a detailed overview will be posted later, don't find time to isoing anyone yet.

[Salsabil Faria]

We have more than 4 days and why the hell do you think,

BloodB0t

, that putting someone on E-1 this early would be a good idea as town!!!! Don't like it at all.

In town!

Calum

scenario, I think scums are already on the wagon as after 138, no one ended the day early >> Theory 01
[I also don't like the fact that

Calum

ignored my questions about him in my 127 + his 134 is just bad]

There is at least one scum in them (hopefully 2) {

Calum

,

Greeting

,

BloodB0t

,

Wayward

,

Kitty

*,

Tejate

} >> Theory 02 (based on interactions with each other +

if x flip green so y will be scum

theory)

Townreads:

CornPuffBuddha

,

Emollient

FYI, I skimmed after my last post, so a detailed overview will be posted later, don't find time to isoing anyone yet.

EBWOP*

[Salsabil Faria]

Family emergency, v/la for 2/3 days....

@Mod

[Salsabil Faria]

KittyTacky

32 = At RVS stage, I usually look for any ping from anyone (even if it's very small or not enough to judge) & move forward with my game from there. This post was on page 2 & enough for me to start scum-hunting early.

98, 101 = Doesn't get much from here to change my thought on him.

99, 100, 102, 129, 193, 194, 250 = NAI

128, 166 = Empty read with no reasoning.

137 = Never mentioned his

Calum/T3

suspicion before but popped in to vote them without giving any reasoning.

152 = One liner reasoning & again not enough + don't understand how 135 is a slip when in 124,

Greeting

said: "

BloodB0t is at E-2 now. If you agree with this read, feel free to jump in, but please announce that you're putting him on E-1.

"

178 =

@Kitty

, why do you find

Greeting's defense of Calum is odd

?

My read:

Scum

[Salsabil Faria]

Wayward Son

22 = Not sure what theatre he saw there or with whom, but looks normal to me for the RVS stage.

27, 28, 50, 51, 54, 77, 108, 168, 221, 223, 246, 252, 254 = NAI/fluff

43 = Now that I'm reading back, like the fact that he pointed out

Kitty

's

no rvs voting

situation.

46 = "

Super flimsy early Town reads on Greeting and Cornpuff.

" : I can understand your

CornPuffBuddha

read here but not understand your

Greeting

read. All he talked about was theory/NAI stuff at that point.

47 = hmm....

49 = Now I understand 22... it is NAI then.

52, 53, 117, 118, 162, 256 = Not much to work with.

56 = "

I'm not giving Emollient a free dumbtell yet,

"......

@Wayward

, did you mean 26?

61, 63 = Your

Tejate

townread here doesn't make sense to me. What I understand from 49 is you didn't scumread

BloodB0t

for what you mentioned in 22, then why did you townread them for 48?

Tejate

didn't make it clear here what kind of read they had on

BloodB0t

? Seems like they agreed with the

BloodB0t

wagon & at the same time defended him subtly.

65, 68, 72 = Why I don't like these posts is mentioned in my 85.

66 = Empty vote with no reasoning.

73 = Not sure about this post. When you made 66 it seemed you had a reason but in this post, it seemed you didn't have any reason to vote

Calum/T3

in the 1st place.

84 = "

them saying the Kitty thing wasn't worth picking at.

"..... why scum!

Tejate

can't say the same thing?
[Off topic: what is IIOA btw?]

84 = Replied in 127, agree with 88.

89 = "

Bloodb0t's ISO is pretty bad.

"..... again, no reasoning attached.

107 = What made you say that?

116 = "

What I meant is Emollient did something that (in my experience) almost never comes from scum. Later I wouldn't mind discussing it.

"...... so, can you discuss it now?

167 = "

I can parse Tejate's posts (I think) and can follow most of her susses.

"..... what did you mean here?

176, 177, 189, 251, 255 = hmm... not disliking these posts.

188 = 1st sentence of 147.

200 = What changed between townread me to not townread me and scumread

Bloodb0t

to not voting him today?

253 = "

My best guess for N1 (lim)?

"..... what do you mean?

257 = Can you tell me why?

I think I'll need more time to sort you out... some things I don't like from your ISO, some things I don't dislike.... need some answers.

My read:

Null

UNVOTE: Wayward

[Salsabil Faria]

Yeah, I've been suspicious of Kitty the whole game. VOTE: KittyTacky

@Salsabil Do you think Wayward is more scummy than Kitty or just a better lim at the moment?

I need to re-think my

Wayward

read as I mentioned in my last post. I gonna finish iso-ing everyone first, then I can tell who is the better lim but

Kitty

is staying under the radar which is why he need the attention atm.

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Salsabil Faria]

Tejate Raichu

15, 16, 92, 203, 207 = NAI

25 = Doesn't seem bad but if this "

Interesting early read. Some people just post really often though, and it can come off as suspicious regardless of alignment. I'm guilty of this myself in some of my previous games.

" come as

BloodB0t

's defense to anyone, I find it not impossible but unlikely because this post made on page 2 and scums generally keep distance from each other. As per 30, they're not a total newb either.

45, 62, 111, 201 = Not much to go with.

48 = I don't understand your

BloodB0t

read here, seems you were sussing him and not sussing him at the same time.

@Tejate

, explain please.

60 = Yeah, agree that 58 isn't good but your reaction to it seems overly aggressive... not sure if it's a town-aggression or scum-aggression though.

91 = The way I remember it, it's not that much of a hard push from

Calum/T3

. On the contrary, you were pushing hard on them and ignoring

BloodB0t

while agreeing with other people's sus on him. Now that I'm re-thinking, your 25 does look like soft-defense of him.

110 = "

Not saying I necessarily agree, but that's what it is

".....

@Tejate

, is this about

Emollient/Moonshot

's

Wayward

read on 109? If so, why didn't you agree?

115 = Though I mentioned in my 127 that I didn't get a scummy vibe from this post, my mind is changed now. Your read on

Calum/T3

seems like

Coasting

now and a very surface-level read. On the other hand, while you're agreeing with others' suspicions on

BloodB0t

.... those were not theory-based or surface-level reads and still not considered to vote him for once. Now I can see what

Greeting

is talking about.

133 = Not satisfying + agreeing.
"

Just because you try to accomplish something and don't succeed doesn't mean you didn't try to do that thing in the first place.

".....

@Tejate

, doesn't

Kitty

is also doing the similar thing(s)?
"

In fact, I said nothing here about Bloodb0t's slot itself whatsoever,

"...... but it was about

BloodB0t

's slot?!

136, 164, 165 = NGL, these posts come across to me as town posts... seems like they really believe their

Calum/T3

scumread.

Spoiler:

191 = Hmm.... not disliking.

You're a tough slot to sort for me. Don't forget to answer the questions I've for you, kindly.

My read:

Null

[Salsabil Faria]

BloodB0t

12, 14, 18 = This vote looks RVS to me, but you later say otherwise.

19 =

@BloodB0t

, did your vote on him NAI also?

41 =

@BloodB0t

, what made you switch this vote? As you stated in 90, "

My initial votes were intentionally strange for the purpose of getting reactions.

", what kind of reaction you expected and got here?

74, 93 = NAI

90 = Already asked about this on 127.

106 = "

I like Tejate for pushing against calum in 60 and me in 91.

".....

@BloodB0t

, what was your

Calum/T3

read at that point? And why do you think scum!

Tejate

can't push you?

122 = This post gives me a major bad vibe.
"

This kind of seems like splitting hairs.

"..... If anyone is splitting here in this situation was

Tejate

and specifically, you! After re-reading this post, my immediate thought is: what if town!

Tejate

is reading too much into town!

Calum/T3

's half-naked posts and scum!

@BloodB0t

is taking the advantage of it for scoring 2 mislims?
[Any thought of this theory from all of you (except

BloodB0t

) would be appreciated]

138 = "

I helped everyone find Calum as scummy.

"...... not sure what did you mean,

Tejate

is the one who made scum-case on

Calum/T3

, you just followed it and linked it to scumread

Greeting

+ still don't like the E-1 vote on

Calum/T3

.

139 = Your scum case on

Greeting

isn't convincing at all.

141 = Agree with 140 on this + you're at E-3 till 3 vc.... not at the verge of elimination but

Calum/T3

wagon took the heat and you're not the top wagon anymore.

142, 148, 160 = Not get much to work with.

145 = "

I really liked 115, 133 and 136, they are some of the towniest posts in the game if you ask me.

"..... 115 & 136 are not towniest, they themselves aren't towniest player yet.

151 = "I'm not exactly sure why you think a wayward lim will be more helpful than a Calum lim. Perhaps part of it is Greeting's town read on him? Regardless, I like you reasoning and would like to hear what info you think we might gain from limming wayward."...... It is literally obvious that

Calum/T3

's elimination at that point wouldn't give much info to go on but

Wayward

's elimination was.... very naive question to ask tbh.

158 = 149 &

157

are explained perfectly everything and still you don't want to consider that for once..... highly unlikely from town!you pov.

159 = It is coasting.

163 = "

Let's say he flips town, what do you think we would have gained from that?

"..... I can ask you the same question about

Calum/T3

elimination.

@BloodB0t

, what info you'll get if they flip green?

172 = "

Normally when people have null reads on someone, it's because they are conflicted between different points that seem to support both a town and a scum.

"..... not necessarily. If the contents are not enough to identify their alignment, they can go into the null-list also.

190 = "

I'm leaning slightly town on moonshot atm. That's consistent with my Emollient read.

".....

@BloodB0t

, can you explain more your reasoning behind the read? I don't find any reasoning in your ISO.

199 = If it is what I think it is, then it'll resolve on Day 2 hopefully.

259 = Already answered.

My read:

Scum

[Salsabil Faria]

The rest will be tomorrow...

Spoiler:

[Salsabil Faria]

@

Salsabil Faria

I gather you think the scum team is

BloodB0t

/

KittyTacky

. Do you think scum!

BloodB0t

is bussing in 259?

Actually, I'm not reading anyone based on associative atm. Simply going by how many players I'll find scummy then do the associative finding among them.

But to answer your question, I don't think scum!

BloodB0t

needed to bus his partner at that time and I scumread

Kitty

independently, thus voting him.

[Salsabil Faria]

I made a long wall-post on

T3

but got deleted before I can hit submit Don't have the energy to write it down again, so just pointing out the main things from his ISO now:

1. Defending predecessor Calum:

Looks like to me that scum!

T3

approaches by pointing out

Calum

's fault to look like a town.

2. Inconsistent + non-committal reads:

His reads in this game are very confusing and I don't think town!

T3

will be this much confused (based on my meta about his gameplay). Before 248,

T3

was either defending/town reading

wayward

&

Emollient/Moonshot

in one post or shading/scum reading them on the next post which feels inconsistent to me + scum!him didn't want to commit to making a way out for later kind of situation is going on. He did the same thing with his

BloodB0t

read also (243, 265) but don't say where he stand about

BloodB0t

yet.

@T3

, kindly explain your reasoning behind the reads in 248 because I fail to see the progression behind it.

3. Controversial scum reads:

The way he approached scum reading

Greeting

seems forced with ill intentions. From 214, 232 to 238, 289 seems like

T3

is made up his mind about

Greeting

first, then approaches with the narrative. Interesting fact,

T3

is now scum reading

Kitty

who is also scum read by

Greeting

{and town reading

Emollient/Moonshot

(who are also town read by

Greeting

) ~~ just pointing out} which indicates

Greeting/Kitty

scum team. But another interesting fact,

T3

mentioned my name "

[KT, Salsa, Greeting]

" in 296 for D1 elimination while agreeing with my

Kitty

scum case which indicates scum!me made a case on my scum partner (258) + bussing him in 261 when

Kitty

wasn't in danger which doesn't make sense at all.

My read:

Scum

UNVOTE: Kitty

VOTE: T3

[Salsabil Faria]

@

Salsabil Faria

I gather you think the scum team is

BloodB0t

/

KittyTacky

. Do you think scum!

BloodB0t

is bussing in 259?

Actually, I'm not reading anyone based on associative atm. Simply going by how many players I'll find scummy then do the associative finding among them.

But to answer your question, I don't think scum!

BloodB0t

needed to bus his partner at that time and I scumread

Kitty

independently, thus voting him.

But, looking logically, if not both of your scumreads are scum, then something's wrong with one scumread?

Yes? That's why I said I'll find the scummy players 1st then do the associative finding among them later.

[Salsabil Faria]

Very busy today, not sure when I can post....

Meanwhile, my D1 elimination list looks like this: {

T3, Kitty, BloodB0t

}

@Kitty

, "

I don't know what to say

"... shouldn't come from an SE player. You can tell us your reads and the reason behind those reads..... this can be a start.

I also don't like

BloodB0t

's AtE in the last couple of his posts iirr.

[Salsabil Faria]

Imo most likely T3 is town.

Who do you think is scum then? Kindly add reasoning if it's possible for you.
I'm unvoting for now...

UNVOTE: T3

Spoiler: FYI

[Salsabil Faria]

Damn! 2 scumreads out of 3 flipped town Not sure about my

Kitty

scumread anymore.... maybe my 1st hunch was correct: {

Greeting, Wayward

}

VOTE: Greeting

[Salsabil Faria]

I think keeping alive a player like kitty too long in the game is bad. There's a lot of promises to improve activity but he again comes and say that he forgot about the game. So:

VOTE: Kitty

Low activity is NAI for me, I am a busy man.

In general I feel like policy limming is kinda scummy no matter on who.

Agreed + we are not in the verge of getting a

no matter what we need an elimination

phase rn, so policy elimination doesn't make sense.

@NJAC

, you caught up from the D1 I suppose, who do you think is likely to be scums? And does your

Kitty

scumread only based on low activity?

Interesting things from

Greeting

's ISO, he was very sure about his

Tejate/NJAC

&

BloodB0t

scumread before

T3

scumread but never voted

Tejate/NJAC

for once but voted

BloodB0t

[re: 123] which indicates

Greeting

-

Tejate/NJAC

scumteam. Then again 78, 79 + this line form 123: "

your main scumreads are literally obvtown players

" are indicate

Greeting

-

Wayward

scumteam.
My intuition says there is at least one scum in this group: {

Greeting, Wayward, Tejate/NJAC

}

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

Every time I think about this game...

@ Salsa You thought both Bloodbot and T3 were scum, how willing are you to hang your hat on Greeting being scum?

Spoiler:

Well, my scum reads weren't based on associative and I was waiting for the flip to find associative but it turns out I was very wrong. In this type of particular case, I generally look into my town reads and widely townreads (if I'm not town reading them) to re-evaluate. Here,

T3

,

BloodB0t

(my D1 scum reads) +

Enchant/CornPuffBuddha

(whom I'm still town reading) think

Greeting

is scum.. so there may be something in it we need to reconsider imo. I still don't manage time to re-read the D1 yet, but if we consider the deep wolf situation,

Greeting

is a fit.

Another thing,

T3/Enchant

's read mostly based on tonal/vibing and they caught scum by it (from my meta with them). So when

Enchant

said they're scum reading

Greeting

, I wanted to give a pause to my

T3

scum read + there was a replacement happening... but eventually the day was over and I didn't do anything about it. That's why I start this day with

Greeting

.

I think my predecessor was doing a good job.

This line pings me though I like his approach to this game.

Greeting is manipulative from first post in game, i don't really see how Greeting can be town.

Please elaborate

I just feel Greeting!Town doesh't post "Hello newbies if you are green we are in same team".

I don't remember this post from him... it was

Wayward

's post.
Btw, can you tell us more about your

Greeting

scum read? Or you can mention the posts which you find manipulative...

I forgor about this game, will catch up and respond tomorrow morning.

I forgot to mention about Kitty, and it was another reason to vote him, that this first post on D2 in which he says he "forgot" about the game, looks to me like an excuse in advance so he can prove that he didn't do anything in the game during the night phase. But if he really forgot it, why bothering mentioning this instead of just catching up (supposing he was not fully caught up at that moment, which I don't see why, because it's not like a lot happened since his last post)?

1. This feels like you're trying to push me for being LHF and then retroactively making up a reason.
2. Why wouldn't I mention it?

Scummy as balls. VOTE: NJAC

Hmm...

Kitty

's from

I don't know what to do

to this

enthusiasm

feels weird.... not sure if it town weird or scum weird yet.

[Salsabil Faria]

Statistically speaking, usually,

one of the mafia slots is an SE player and one is a Newbie.

Then why you didn’t eliminate

Kitty

(or going after me) when he contributed nothing important??

Salsabil

will go first as they have jumped off the

T3

wagon when it gained traction. I've found it suspicious at the time and I'm finding it suspicious now, because there was enough justification for a Calum/

T3

elimination and yet they left at the very last minute. Almost as if they wanted to try to avoid looking bad for miseliminating someone they knew was town.

So, from your

SE theory

, I'm scum because...

1.

One of the SE has to be a scum.

2.

Scum!me didn’t want to look bad that's why jumped off from

T3

after making a scum case on him which YOU AGREED with me. (I literally gave

T3

on a platter to you... smh )

3.

And of course, town!me shouldn’t give pause/re-evaluate on any read, specially when we had time and a replacement happening.

Hmm.... almost flattering that you're up for my a** since RVS, trying to find ANYTHING to make me look bad Though I'm impressed by your pocketing attempt [FYI, one of them should be the scum partner].

Btw, I believe we can win by this: {

Greeting > Wayward/NJAC

}

[Salsabil Faria]

What reads?

Greeting+NJAC are mafia team.

GG eazy.
That's it.
All.

Go persuade me otherwise.

Why not

Wayward

? He seems to believe

Greeting

also.

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

Finally a page top! Yay!

[Salsabil Faria]

@Kitty

, gun to head... if

NJAC

will flip read, who do you think will be the scum-partner? Also, what is your current read for the rest of the players?

[Salsabil Faria]

@Kitty

, gun to head... if

NJAC

flip read, who do you think will be the scum-partner? Also, what is your current read for the rest of the players?

EBWOP

[Salsabil Faria]

Early townleans:

Wayward Son

- Easily the towniest ISO so far in this game, committed to making meta reads (20), progressing the game (65). The second one is more important, as dead games always favour scum who can hide in the shadows and do nothing. It's uncommon for mafia-aligned players, especially newbies to have the drive to make fake progress in a game.

I don't necessarily agree with the

Tejate Raichu

townread (63) though. Why?

CornPuffBuddha

- Weaker townread than the latter, nonetheless shows traces of actual analysis of the gameplay (29).

A question for you though, why do you think

BloodB0t

is "unusually passive"? Have you played with them before? (44)

@Enchant

, how unlikely it is you think that scum!

Greeting

didn't put his scum-partner in his early town read list?

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler: Greeting vs BloodB0t vs Tejate/NJAC

My scum reads are Wayward, Greeting, maybe Calum. Kitty's inactivity is suspicious. Though none of my scum reads are very strong yet, I will VOTE: Wayward because it is the strongest nonetheless.

My town so far is CornPuff, Salsa and Tejate.

I agree with the

Calum

scumread. Why do you scumread

Wayward Son

though?

TL;DR, I believe Calum may be trying to play an aggressive mafia game to focus discussion on a topic that ultimately benefits a Calum/not Bloodb0t scumteam by virtue of not being about them.

Now, at the moment we all only have tiny ISOs to go off of, however this sort of behavior to me is something I'd expect more from a red role than a green one. In my opinion, mafia has 3 major strategies for the day game. Obviously there's details, but I feel as though it breaks down to 3 main ways to accomplish whatever goal, be that survival or gaining trust. Do note that I am not implying that these are equally effective, and they are not mutually exclusive either. For me, they exist on a spectrum of sorts. Also note I do not necessarily consider these hard tells, these are just general approaches I think mafia is likely to take, mafia is not a flowchart.

1) Coasting, a strategy very common with beginner mafia and sometimes even experienced players. This usually isn't even done on purpose, but this consists of a lot of fluff and little else. I don't think this is really a scumtell, but not contributing is very likely to get you limmed by more experienced players, since people simply don't have any way to slot you. This is not what is happening here, but I figure I should mention it.
2) Contributing bad info. This is when a scum agrees with a townie (usually townread player) who is contributing a theory that is way off the mark, or pushing their own. Townies are often wrong contrary to popular belief, so this is a very easy thing to fall back to.
3) Stifling discussion. This is when, instead of simply throwing bad ideas into the pot like strategy 2, you essentially try to force the conversation to as far off track or end as soon as possible. The less townies discuss things that are actually relevant, the less likely they are to successfully gamesolve. This is the most aggressive of the 3, you essentially have to be dominating the conversation for this to be pulled off. More experienced players are likely to be wary of this, but in a newbie game people are far more likely to simply "follow the leader". Not speaking about you guys specifically, but largely speaking people brand new to the game do this when presented with domineering mafia play.

At first, I typed this sentence:

This is a good observation coming from a townie mindset. I think

Tejate Raichu

should be off the radar for Day 1 as well.

I pointed out that I usually don't solve games by assuming that the mafia team has a strategy, because there might as well be none. But then took the time to actually analyse what has been given here, and something's off here.

In my opinion, Calum's play thus far lines up more with 2 and 3 than what I would expect a townie to be saying this early. Especially the part where they immediately suggested to vote one of me or Bloodb0t. The biggest thing that gives me pause at the moment is that, if they are leaning 3, the most aggressive playstyle, I would expect them to be following up more, especially with my posts countering Calum. They did say they were new, but I don't want to discount this doubt based on that alone.

Then, I looked at

Calum

's ISO. It's full of single-sentenced posts, questions, half-naked votes. Very little content.

How would you categorise this as 2/3? It's

literally

coasting. He does not engage in discussion, his questions do not redirect the discussion. His influence on the game is minuscule.

This kind of seems like splitting hairs. As you say, it's not like scum has to have a strategy that they stick to. They could switch things up depending on any number of things. I do think Calum's been exhibiting behavior from all 3 categories. His low post/word count could be considered coasting, but all of his little content fits into 2/3. That doesn't exonerate them at all. Calum has been one of the most scummy players so far. The specific categorization of his strategy doesn't really matter.

I think your overall play exhibits strategy number 2, which is the most dangerous one for town in my opinion. You're also using strategy 3 in the quoted post because the inconsistency you point out doesn't really matter.

I would prefer to Lim you day 1, so VOTE: Greeting, but I am also willing to hammer the more harmless scum in Wayward/Calum because those are more likely to actually happen. I sense that a D1 vote on you probably won't be gaining much traction, which is unfortunate.

Nice try. I was just about to wait for

Tejate

to respond and start questioning him about his townread of you, but this pre-emptive attack seems to me that I'm heading towards the right direction.

This vote is completely unsurprising. It makes sense when one looks back at

Tejate Raichu

's ISO and he actually white knighted you (48) even though, in my opinion, there's really no reason for town to do so. I was just pondering a potential

Tejate

/

BloodB0t

team. Even if

Tejate

is actually town, he's the only notable advocate to not eliminate you.

What's the truth? Your "reads" are inconsistent and chaotic. Townies sometimes are inconsistent and chaotic, but not within one post:

Greeting's non-reaction to my vote and getting on with moving the game forward does seem slightly townie

, I guess, though it could be scum doing well at appearing town. I do find it a bit strange that he asked cornpuff if we've played together before. I didn't mention having any experience here (41). This is my second game here and the first is still ongoing.

As a matter of fact, I replied to you in 96, but you didn't really seem to care. Is that really inciting discussion or just posting reads for the sake of it?

My scum reads are Wayward, Greeting, maybe Calum.

Kitty's inactivity is suspicious. Though none of my scum reads are very strong yet, I will VOTE: Wayward because it is the strongest nonetheless.

You defend yourself by claiming that your votes were intentionally strange (90) and you're "making waves" and want to see what happens (106).

Your voting record so far is also really bad, your main scumreads are literally obvtown players (even if you not count myself). These are all actually book scumreads, from Mini's Scumhunting Kit: :"Trying to discredit obvtown people for bad reasons", "Being "jokingly" scummy, self-admitting they are scummy, claiming scum" (admitting your bad ISO).

And, since LAMIST has been mentioned in this game before, trying to initiate discussion for the sake of it, not for the sake of forming reads literally falls under the definition from this scumhumting guide.

"Look at me, I'm so town!" (+1.0)
It's the so-called LAMIST tell and it's still relevant enough to have its own acronym! Newbscum usually are very concerned with 'looking good' to avoid falling under suspicion, but don't know how to fake-scumhunt. Instead, they will do things like pushing the lurkers to contribute, trying to "resuscitate" them by voting them, asking for reads on themselves, talking a lot about the game itself (this is called IIoA), claiming they are doing anything in their power to get information.

Post in reference - 41: zero relation of vote to post content, claiming to elicit reaction afterwards.

This is a good Day 1 elimination.

VOTE: BloodB0t

VOTE: Emollient for putting someone at e-2 so early.

For the record, that someone was none other than...

Tejate Raichu

.

If

BloodB0t

flips red then I am going after

Tejate

tomorrow.

Can you explain, why you think they can be the scumteam?

There exists a pattern in this game in which

Tejate Raichu

and

BloodB0t

show signs of supporting rach other each other (90, 48 - from

Tejate

), and even

BloodB0t

defends

Tejate Raichu

(12) even though in my opinion, there isn't enough towny stuff by

BloodB0t

to support this.

Another notable connection between the two is post 91, from

Tejate

, where he claims that

BloodB0t

should "post more". But it's not really that threatening.

No disagreement there, Bloodb0t should be posting given the large amount of contention his slot has at the moment. However, I do take issue with Calum hard pushing me and him as a group.

My major issue here is that

BloodB0t

on surface level is not even remotely towny and yet,

Tejate

writes him off and even slightly supports him.

I am 100% aware that

Calum

's ISO is bad. This, on surface level, is the literal definition of a coaster and is a commonly used scumtell.

But why has no one said this as a major argument to vote him out?

Tejate Raichu

's 115 about

Calum

looks townie on the surface, but when I read into it, his real reason for voting him out just doesn't make sense and doesn't add up.

(in his words he said it's a combination of 2/3)

2) Contributing bad info. This is when a scum agrees with a townie (usually townread player) who is contributing a theory that is way off the mark, or pushing their own. Townies are often wrong contrary to popular belief, so this is a very easy thing to fall back to.
3) Stifling discussion. This is when, instead of simply throwing bad ideas into the pot like strategy 2, you essentially try to force the conversation to as far off track or end as soon as possible. The less townies discuss things that are actually relevant, the less likely they are to successfully gamesolve. This is the most aggressive of the 3, you essentially have to be dominating the conversation for this to be pulled off. More experienced players are likely to be wary of this, but in a newbie game people are far more likely to simply "follow the leader". Not speaking about you guys specifically, but largely speaking people brand new to the game do this when presented with domineering mafia play.

And when I tried to question him about it,

BloodB0t

came charging at his defense.

Which is why I am really suspicious about the

Calum

wagon rn.

And another thing: Greeting, you have said a couple times now that Calum is LHF. Think about this from my perspective for a second: my "defenses" of Bloodb0t mostly involved pointing out that, at the time he was actually LHF. I used this to point out a particular post sussing Bloodb0t that I didn't like because it seemed like it was simply trying to reach that LHF rather than actually get a mafia limmed.

Does the same thing not apply to why you think my suspicion of Calum over Blood isn't warranted? If I'm reading correctly, you believe my reasoning for a Calum wagon is bad, and therefor I am scum with Bloodb0t trying to get the LHF. Does that actually make sense, though? Why do you feel so confident that I am trying to push Calum because he's LHF? Why do you seem to think this is any different than my "defense" of Blood?

I have made my case with regard to you and

BloodB0t

, it's in my ISO and I continue to support it. I can obviously see a universe where

BloodB0t

is town LHF. I am not 100% sure on that scumread. It's just the best I have for today, and given the way Day 1 is going now, it will probably be my best case this Day.

Calum

is, in my humble opinion, far lower hanging fruit though.

Part of why I am so reluctant to scumread him for the obvious is my extensive experience of playing Newbie games with players who had similar levels of activity (and sometimes even replaced out) who were all scumread en masse for it.

BloodB0t

would be a different kind of LHF if he's town - the explanation would be erratic behavior and gameplay issues (I have played with players who genuinely attempt to start discussions like this).

Nonetheless, my approach is not without its flaws. What if we're at ELo ("eliminate or lose") and

Calum

is still alive? This kind of slot, if town, is just perfect for the mafia to have in the game because he's totally mislimmable.

Which struck out to me the most is

Greeting

's main suspicion started with

Tejate/NJAC

, but pushed

BloodB0t

for the sake of

defending scum-partner

aka associative read. The way these conversations happened, (what I think) town!him should eliminate

Tejate/NJAC

first (FYI, he never voted

Tejate

for once, despite having strong suspicion.... classic scum-partner move), then the flip would clear

BloodB0t

to him but happened the opposite.
So the manipulation scum!

Greeting

did here was.... went after a townie, made a scum-case of the townie, included his scum-partner in that case, made

if X flips red then Y will also be the red

associative read among them, night killed the townie (after failing to eliminate him in the day phase), cleared Tejate/NJAC in his eyes by the flip.
This whole

BloodB0t

-

Tejate/NJAC

case was based on associative only which contradicts with

Greeting

's stance on 170.

[

Why do you think Wayward Son and Calum are obvtown?

Perhaps the phrasing on my part was a bit ambiguous, but I meant his voting record and not necessarily people who he named as scumreads.

Moonshot

caught a good thing here....

Greeting

stated

wayward

and

Calum/T3

as

obvtown players

on his 123 (who were/are not obvtown to me) which I think is a Freudian scum-slip.

[Salsabil Faria]

Well. It's kinda hard to find support on Greeting.
Why you are not maf?

This is not how it works, if you're voting me and willing to Lim me you should explain your reasons about why you think I'm scum.

What do you expect me to answer? I know I'm not maf.

But okay, I suppose that's your approach to the game, you expect others to do the job for you. So, to give an answer to you, consider this:

I'm trying to solve the game, I'm active and contributing, I'm playing with a town mindset trying to read intentions and generating interactions and reactions. Add to that what my predecessor did and you'll have your answer.

Why do you keep thinking that your predecessor was the obvtown lol....
And "

I know I'm not maf.

" doesn't help the rest of us to read you because guess what, we don't know your role!

[Salsabil Faria]

@Mod

, v/la for 3 days. I'll be traveling... if I can post in between, I'll...

[Salsabil Faria]

I just remember something... it's a tonal read though...

VOTE: Enchant

[Salsabil Faria]

Also @ Salsabil Why vote Enchant now? I hope you get on to explain this, because I see it as turning on a friend in a moment of desperation.

Because I can see a universe where you & them are scums if

Greeting

&

NJAC

both are towns + from all of the players here, only

Enchant

can pull of the

pocketing attempt

on me.

Btw, what desperation??

If you're sure about I'm scum, why aren't you voting?

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsa

E-1.
Claim.

Now,

Greeting

&

NJAC

suddenly townies for you??

I'm scum

[Salsabil Faria]

I laugh
I should have gone against you when you never expressed your suspicion about me for once which town!you never did before. But was busy with rl stuffs, also can't prove this by words.Then your

feisty behaviour

with

NJAC

was also new....I don't think as an experienced player town!you would behave like that with a newbie.

[Salsabil Faria]

Eh.

It's you started lying. Which kinda shows.

VOTE: Kitty

@Wayward

, my POE is in this order: {

Enchant, Kitty, BlueBloodedToffee, Wayward

}

[Salsabil Faria]

Wait!

NJAC

isn't a newbie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoiler:

New POE: {

NJAC > Wayward/BlueBloodedToffee > Greeting

}

VOTE: NJAC

[Salsabil Faria]

Then do it.... what are you waiting for?

You're scum because your reasoning for voting

Kitty

shouldn't come from an experienced player like you. Since your joining year is 2012, it shouldn't be your 1st time seeing someone typed

I forgot about the game

in any game threads (which is unlikely to be considered as AI). You're coasting here...

[Salsabil Faria]

My question is how do you catch the

intent

behind it? My experience is very less compared to yours, so I can't think of any possible explanation behind that except you read

Kitty

scum 1st, then add reasoning for it.

What's your last sentence aiming for? I was talking about voting me...

[Salsabil Faria]

How do I catch the intent? Well, it's how I read that in that moment. I don't really see the point of posting [383] at the very beginning of D2 when only two players had posted. If Kitty was indeed not fully caught up at that moment, he could just go and read and come with something of substance, but he decided to simply say "I forgot and going to catch up", and as I explained several times, it seems like an attempt to prove that he wasn't active during the night phase.

I'm getting tired of repeating that, BTW. So stop misrepping me.

My last sentence was because I thought you were asking me what I was waiting for to claim. But now that I understand what you were asking, I say that I'm more convinced of Kitty being scum than you, but if a Kitty Lim doesn't happen then I'm fine with eliminating you.

Nope! I wasn't misrepping you...

Do you scumread me? Or it's just

Kitty

elimination isn't happening & we need an elimination kind of reason?

[Salsabil Faria]

Btw, 2 hours 50 minutes left...

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

[Salsabil Faria]

Intent to hammer...

@Kitty

[Salsabil Faria]

Ok, I can't be online anymore...

VOTE: Kitty

[Salsabil Faria]

KittyTacky

has been eliminated! Their role was...

Mafia Rolecop

Spoiler: Role PM

Mafia Rolecop

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Rolecop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.

Vanilla Townies

and

Mafia Goons

will both return "Vanilla". If you are roleblocked, you will receive "No Result."

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Holy moly mother of goly!

I would never think

a scum/SPR

will dare to play like a bad townie

Spoiler: For post game

@Kitty

, most of the players won't agree with me but playing like this as a scum is one of the ballsy moves!

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm leaning Greeting. Thoughts?

Same but after seeing the flip, 1st name that popped into my mind was

Wayward

(flipped townie), then

Enchant

(claimed tacker & no cc yet), so by thinking

no one bussing

+ occam's razor....

Greeting

is the scum. If bussing happened then

BlueBloodedToffee

.

My POE: {

Greeting > BlueBloodedToffee

}

[Salsabil Faria]

KittyTacky

has been eliminated! Their role was...

Mafia Rolecop

Spoiler: Role PM

Mafia Rolecop

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Rolecop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.

Vanilla Townies

and

Mafia Goons

will both return "Vanilla". If you are roleblocked, you will receive "No Result."

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Holy moly mother of goly!

I would never think

a scum/SPR

will dare to play like a bad townie

Spoiler: For post game

@Kitty

, most of the players won't agree with me but playing like this as a scum is one of the ballsy moves!

Almost had him in D1!

[Salsabil Faria]

Okay, but gun to your head what's your guess?

BBT

.

Why didn’t you consider me here?

Enchant

cleared me on the later post...

[Salsabil Faria]

Wait, we're in MeLo right? Will we eliminate anyone or no elimination?

[Salsabil Faria]

I don't think it's Greeting.

510 makes it unlikely I think?

Who then?

[Salsabil Faria]

I HAVE INTERNET SHORTCAGE

I AM TRACKER, SALSA DIDN'T MOVE LAST NIGHT

GO FIGURE I AM BUSY

I'll be forever grateful *insert happy tears emoji*

[Salsabil Faria]

It's not MeLo @Salsa. We can still mislimm and have another chance the next day.

Oh, yeah... 5 players alive...

VOTE: Greeting

[Salsabil Faria]

Plus, I'm no longer confident in my own reads, because they've not been great this game.

These are the

almost

exact words I used at my last scum game

[Salsabil Faria]

@Salsa, other things that make Greeting scum is him casting shade on BBT's slot and my slot to widen his limpool.

Also he being so stubborn to join Kitty's wagon, despite me insisting, and even when he supposedly agreed with what I was saying, was very scummy, even more when you look at it in hindsight.

The question was asked by

Greeting

himself.
However, I agree with you + with the whole

BloodB0t & Tejate/NJAC

scenario in D1.

[Salsabil Faria]

I HAVE INTERNET SHORTCAGE

I AM TRACKER, SALSA DIDN'T MOVE LAST NIGHT

GO FIGURE I AM BUSY

Whom did you target on Night 1?

Samurai, that's kinda reason why i shield them.


I know, targeting sucks, but i 99% was sure Salsa will survive and she fooled me before (never mind that she easy pushover). Otherwise it's random about who mafia think is PR, and last thing i wanted is dead check.


Also search for someone who think i suck at game, as i am blatant shot, due how i acted and was obvtown (i think)...
Hold on, that's everyone. Well, i guess nothing can be done with it. Still busy, take care.

Who is Samurai?? Also, I don't understand the last 2 lines...

[Salsabil Faria]

Yeah. I'm alive probably because I was town reading Greeting.

Wayward Son

was townreading me as well, though?

Wanted to mention this, but got skipped somehow.... maybe scum!you thought

wayward

was the PR.

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

[Salsabil Faria]

GG everyone
Congrats town! Scums also did a good job

[Salsabil Faria]

the 5 replacements and the inactivity at the start of D1 were unfortunate, but it's the start of a school year. what can you do?

very solid showing from the town and a good effort from the mafia. thanks for playing!

(didn't really put as much effort into modding this as I would've liked. was mostly just tired of mafia. also, I really shouldn't do votecounts at 10pm)

fun fact: when enchant replaced in, I accidentally sent them a VT PM instead of a tracker PM. that was fixed at the start of night 1

Thank you for modding Likes your page top stealing

[Salsabil Faria]

Towards the end of day 1 I was townreading KT more than Salsa though

Yeah, lol... you hardly read me right but I'm a hard slot to read so np.

[Salsabil Faria]

Congratulations to town for winning the game!

I am a bit salty as I do feel like I played well and lost because of factors which were out of my control. Nonetheless, I did commit mistakes - I should have bussed KittyTacky instead of defending him, and probably killed NJAC Night 2 instead of Wayward Son.

Yeah that but you did a very good job Almost everyone town was reading you.

[Salsabil Faria]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts @Greeting. For some moments you and others made me doubt about Kitty, but I was almost sure I had caught a scum, so decided to insist on him.

Sorry that I didn’t believe you... I was thinking you and

Greeting

were the scums.

[Salsabil Faria]

@Mod,

how about releasing the PTs?

[Salsabil Faria]

Yeah I did.

Honestly my mistake was underestimating the "sleepy" town and trying to lurk it out.

Lurking isn't good for any alignment tbh, sooner or later you'll be eliminated.