Newbie 2105 | Game Over

[Spartan117]

VOTE: Bellaphant Greeting and bellaphant are mafia duo. I voted greeting and bellaphant voted me seems like a newbie mistake

How dare you vote my mafia partner from the last game, take this!
VOTE: Player6

[Spartan117]

I'll just go ahead and VOTE: Bella for now.

Page 2 looks like a good time for a juicy RVS Hammer you have been judged Bella to be too sussy for our company. Begone!

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Spartan117]

hey spartan are you scum

Sure, if it helps drive conversation.

[Spartan117]

Kinda hoped for more of a reaction from my test rather than being outted, let it be known if anyone votes for bella now and Hammers that they are scum.

[Spartan117]

Gihardi, Spartan and tapioaco maybe town. #hottakes

Yesh I'm getting that vibe too, think you probably rolled green again too, cab you really roll Red (idk how many) that many times!
But we can see how the reads evolve inc. mine, for now I'll take a step back till I find my next suspect to pounce on.

UNVOTE: Bellaphant

[Spartan117]

One mafia found, one to go!

Okay thats one in the bag, let's goo! Lets bank it and now on to find the other one! Hmm where should we look?

[Spartan117]

well, we're in RVS and I feel that while bellaphant's vote on me seemed very sus as when there are multiple mafia sometimes one might vote the person who is throwing suspicion at them to shut them up. So when I voted greeting and the post after bellaphant voted for me seemed like that. Also I really dont get how saying hi to the mod and voting someone would be "really awkward" when that's what everyone else is doin. Seems like justifying something after the fact. Also Greeting your RVS vote on Bellaphant doesn't really mean anything as you could just change it later. I mean that seems like the kind of "evidence" that you throw around that doesn't make any sense when held up to any amount of scrutiny

@Blue
This just feels very anxious like worried about what people think of then so early on, so much so that they need to try and defend themselves so early on, typically scum are more defensive when accused than town but it can also be part of the way the person takes accusations so not always alignment indicative.

[Spartan117]

Gihardi, Spartan and tapioaco maybe town. #hottakes

Bella can you join my wagon please? I wanna be in the sus'd pool so I make it to day 2.

[Spartan117]

I'll just go ahead and VOTE: Bella for now.

Page 2 looks like a good time for a juicy RVS Hammer you have been judged Bella to be too sussy for our company. Begone!

VOTE: Bellaphant

hey spartan are you scum

Sure, if it helps drive conversation.

Kinda hoped for more of a reaction from my test rather than being outted, let it be known if anyone votes for bella now and Hammers that they are scum.

The worst entrance into the game so far, absolutely anti-town and generally very awkward.

VOTE: Spartan117

How many games have you played in before Greeting?
I see you are an SE so I assume you have been in a few?
Very interesting for you to highlight a few posts of mine referring to my entrance without actually including my actual entrance post, this isn't your first rodeo and it's not mine either.

Please tell me from the perspective of an experienced player such as yourself, what about trying to create conversation and reaction testing is "absolutely anti town"?

[Spartan117]

I clearly don't care if I'm being sussed and am more than happy to use myself as a tool to drive conversation and get opinions, why is this scummy? Do you think scum want to try and be heavily sussed early on? Would it not make more sense to try and hide under the radar?

[Spartan117]

I don't see any good partners with scum!bella either

Me and Bella were great partners last game..... just sayin

[Spartan117]

Hows everybody doing? Is anyone about?

[Spartan117]

From this post I think Spartan117 felt the same way that I did and realised that I was just having a bit of fun and that we were trying to get things going (correct me if I am wrong Spartan117).

Yeah its all pretty casual early on, ive just been playing pretty chaotically casual until I feel my way into the game and get a good read on everybody.

[Spartan117]

If you want my read on Spartan117, he reads more townish as he's trying to get discussion going.

Noooo, I mean yeah I am but I should totally be sussed, lots of sussy behaviour going on over here, definitely

[Spartan117]

Hello

[Spartan117]

Are you scum?

[Spartan117]

what do you think about 81?

Yeah I think its difficult I see a lot of what I could see being town v town interactions, its still so early too and the game would benefit a lot if we had a higher activity across the board, don't think we have even had the dull compliment of players post yet.

[Spartan117]

Think it's also far too early to look at scum partners and scum teams, until we get a filp we could make tons of reads on associations between players which could be just clouding up the actual hunting this early, more than likely the scum team would get mentioned amongst a flurry of other pairs that would bury it.

[Spartan117]

what do you think about 81?

Yeah I think its difficult I see a lot of what I could see being town v town interactions, its still so early too and the game would benefit a lot if we had a higher activity across the board, don't think we have even had the dull compliment of players post yet.

Full not dull, sorry phone posting.

[Spartan117]

yeah i don't really have anything to add without more content from people

Yeah I just really feel so flat with the complete inactivity in this game it's really uninspiring tbh, don't have much enthusiasm to engage when there is little to nothing to engage with...

[Spartan117]

VOTE: Spartan117 I think you may also be due for a prod

pedit: nvm

what's the thinking behind this vote

They didn't really explain anything but after my last game where I was scum with Bella and we won, with me playing a really strong town game and getting town locked by a couple other players, I can't blame the sus when I could literally be doing anything and I could be scum.
My play style is often more so situational on the game state and what's going on irl rather than indicative to my role. Like here I'm town (yeah I know, I know) and I thought playing the early chaotic energy to spice things up rather than being super investigative and probing everybody would be a good way to mix things up, rather than just following off from my last game I'd get sussed for just being town. But unlike EE from last game not everybody goes into reading everyone's past games and breaks it down completely. I just wanted a bit more of a lower effort game this time as appose to last game where I put a lot of effort in to seem town, this time I'm less bothered.

[Spartan117]

Why not vote the least active player to spur activity?

Is this in reference to me because you voted me? Because I have the second highest post count at this point in time? How would that make me the least active or am I misunderstanding?

[Spartan117]

As one of the two people who have wagons on them currently, It would be thought that I would want to try to join Greetings wagon and push them especially for their suspect push on me. But I am worried they could potentially be the typical sussy day 1 town elim that happens so often, I need more time to go through everything thats happened, been very busy irl sorry gang but am planning on putting something together tonight, from a quick glance, BBT looks town so far @Bella I personally don't know if I have it in me to try and sort him after past games so provided nothing jumps out at me, there are other directions I'd rather venture in and investigate in more depth.

[Spartan117]

t isn't illogical to assume Greeting might be eliminated without Spartan's involvement

Its

illogical

? To assume greeting might be eliminated without my involvement.

Are you referring to my reaction test at the beginning or me voting them and being on their wagon?
If they reacted in a suspect way to my reaction test and people vote them for that, I am happy to have helped especially as its driven thought privoling conversation but thats down to the voters not me.

And if by chance you are referring to it being illogical for them to be eliminated without me voting them? I don't see how its illogical for 2 of Looker, BBT or Bella to vote them. To put it short I don't really see your point. Especially since I've not really been engaging the votes against me as I currently don't see the point, I'm not going to spend my time trying to make everyone think I'm town, I plan to review formulate my reads and if you flip me see im town and yall can go from there with that info.

[Spartan117]

What I think it's happening is: Spartan is scum, and knows Greeting will flip town. By saying "pushing Greeting would be great for me, but idk, this overly scummy player might be town" Spartan is setting up a Day 2 where they can say "See? I was right! Y'all should've listened to me. See how great of a townie I am?"

This would be suspect if I was voting them and on their wagon, but im.not, and I'm not pushing them as town as much as you're pretending I am, all I did was share my concerns and reservations from my previous experience where I've seen players be sus day 1 and they are still town, Bella and BBT here will have seen me hard push wagons day 1 on someone doing what they have previously and I am trying to learn from my mistakes and get better at reading sussy inexperienced town to someone who is scum. I have honestly not looked through everything enough yet I just wanted to share some surface thoughts earlier, believe me or don't its up to you, I'm just trying to share what I'm thinking.

Also pushing greeting wouldn't be great for me as it is a clear and obvious tactic used by both alignments to try and relieve pressure. It would be the typical thing for someone to do that is being pressured, jump on the other wagon and try and get then elimed to save their behind. Like I said I've not fully caught up yet and will do hopefully tonight if not part way tonight part way tomorrow.

If Greeting gets themselves eliminated that's not down to me and me sharing my reservations about that because of past experiences. Its down to their own play and other players scum reading them because of it, I'm starting to wonder if they are scum if this is a gambit by their scum partner to try and push the other wagon to save their scum buddy from the pressure they brought on themselves.

[Spartan117]

My point is that you're counting on Greeting being eliminated

Why are you pushing this fake narrative, ive not given off that impression at all? Are you just speculating for effect? I've not had a chance to sit down and go through the last several pages properly and you are saying I'm doing all this stuff against Greeting when I've not been... its alarming at the very least. Why are you chosing to bypass the content that has been produced how about you interact with that, like I intend to rather than trying to push false narratives...

[Spartan117]

For one, because you didn't answer my #156 question.

You disagree with them because they didn't answer your question? How petty

Tell me why its correct to actually sus me for my entrance especially with it having been explained, I can understand it being misunderstood, but after its been explained you seem blinded by agenda rather than logic...

VOTE: BlueSnakelet

[Spartan117]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Youre voting the wrong Blue

[Spartan117]

Alright so its late and I've not got time to read through will have to be tomorrow night when I get in, any off the cuff questions that don't require me to read through posts I'll be around sporadically tomorrow while at work.

[Spartan117]

Sometimes suspect behaviour is just how some people play town or scum which makes it extra hard trying to fish out which side they are on :/

[Spartan117]

I think that greeting being in my first scum read and also has done a lot of shady things like having 0 scum hunting and maybe I'm heading towards a Greeting/Ghardi scum team but I still think that bellaphant needs to be watched still as they aren't fully in the clear VOTE: Greeting

One for here too.

[Spartan117]

I think greeting was scum hunting in the early game?

Where he was calling me out for lolhamnering you in rvs right?

[Spartan117]

Sometimes suspect behaviour is just how some people play town or scum which makes it extra hard trying to fish out which side they are on :/

who's this in reference to

Bella talking about Greeting, I really don't know what to make of their play, certainly looks sus but I've chased down players before for being sus and they turned out town, I'm much more conscientious this time around being town... :/

[Spartan117]

The fact Greeting isn't a new player is what worries me they don't fall under the bracket of being new as they have been on here a year now, so they should know what looks inherently sus and as such why people are sussing them

[Spartan117]

Looks like we have 21hrs left I dont see there being enough time for anyone to join me in voting blue so it looks like I am going to have to VOTE: Greeting if we are going to get a flip, we need information going into day 2 and I don't particularly think their content has been very fruitful. It's better than having no elim and letting scum driving who gets flipped. If we had more time I feel things would be different, part of the issue with so many slots changing.

[Spartan117]

I believe thays E-1, can we have an updated vote count please

[Spartan117]

I kinda feel like BBT might be town this game guys, I've been very busy irl and didn't notice the game had picked back up, as such I've not read through everything that happened at the end of day 1, and need to familiarise myself with how things went down. For those that don't know it is quite uncommon for me to ever be defending BBT, Bella can attest. I just get a vibe he could be town this game.

[Spartan117]

I'm pretty sure Spartan is town. I know I argued otherwise before, but I changed my mind. I was only being way too confident in a tinfoil theory I created.

Why did your opinion on me change? I actually thought my game content was very lacking at the end/later stages of day 1.

[Spartan117]

Hi. My slot was almost hammered. Huzzah

Also nails suck to type with

Currently at a point where I think its one of Tapio or Elmo and one of BlueSnake or Looker.

VOTE: Tapio

[Spartan117]

Elmo already has two votes Spartan and they have contributed nothing as of yet.

Can't find time to post content but can find time to explain why they're not posting content.

I agree, I just wanted to give them a chance to post as they said today they would contribute, and if I vote them it puts them in hammer range, but I am willing to move there if needed.

[Spartan117]

Elmo already has two votes Spartan and they have contributed nothing as of yet.

Can't find time to post content but can find time to explain why they're not posting content.

Takes 30 seconds to make a post about what's going on irl then an hour reading this whole game.

I get that but you first joined Saturday and it's now Tuesday and you've yet to post anything content driving so we are all only able to read your slot bases off your predecessor, I get you may have been busy although it sounds like something you knew was coming so I'm not quite sure why you subbed into this game if you knew you was going to be unable to provide content unless there is some merit to what BBT said about struggling to scum hunt when you have the game solve. If you are genuinely town you can surely see how this messes things up for the rest of us when all we have to go on is a scatter of posts that aren't driving any content.

What's your read on Tapio, Looker and BlueSnake?

[Spartan117]

Hey guys im about, just got in from work, what everyone saying?

[Spartan117]

I wanna make sure we hit scum this time so lets make this shot count.

[Spartan117]

Player6s content was pretty empty looking back on it, Elmo can you add to it, if you're not scum, who is and why?

[Spartan117]

@spartan can I get an answer to 330?

Vibes.... feeling... hunches... more will be revealed day 3

[Spartan117]

VOTE: Elmo

On this note I'll self hammer. To get game state. Also 335
If i didn't make a post or talk about them then I consider them town

This is so anti town of you, if you are actually town you are dooming us by giving up there was 1 vote on you and bbt just put a 2nd on you, why on earth are you talking about self hammering???

[Spartan117]

What do you think I'm trying to set up? This isn't a rhetorical question. Please give me your best answer.

And one of two ways for Mafia to make people dead is to push them during the day, is it not?

These are the questions asked in #335.

[Spartan117]

Also 335
If i didn't make a post or talk about them then I consider them town

How is this answering them questions?

[Spartan117]

Still 0 scum hunting from Elmo by the way.

Actually I think youll find he's prepared to hammer scum when they get 1 more vote on them xD

[Spartan117]

Hasn't done anything outside of what he was directly asked to contribute.

Its true, and for someone who subbed into the game you'd think there would be more purpose. I find it so frustraiting because watch him flip town yet he's not done anything towney to help in the progression of the game just roll over and declare intent to self hammer...

[Spartan117]

7 and a half hours left. I doubt that we're goint to get anything useful out of Elmo now.

VOTE: Elmo, this is E-1.

Its just so frustraiting as he is rolling over which is great if he's scum albeit sucky for his partner, but if they are town it gives us nothing to go off as far as reads go, for who they think is scum etc.

At this point I will declare intent to hammer, so Elmo if you can please declare your role and we can go from there.

[Spartan117]

Ill be honest this slot felt like it was just going to be a dead spot. You want a readlist when I said I wasn't going to. I don't see the point of it. I know this whole lynch is bad and to be fair I'm not going to let this day end without some information going around. After the game is over we can talk about things and what was done wrong but like I said earlier I hate game solves on day 2 when there wasn't and isn't a lot of information to go off of.

The slot you subbed into was a clean slate and we would have treated it as such if you had been active and provided meaningful content.
while you may not see the point in a read list, it's not for you it's for us, after we see your flip it helps us see who you was reading what given your alignment, resistance to provide one just makes you look like you are trying to hide potential post flip associations to your scum partner.

You say your not gonna let this day end without some info going around but you've been providing empty promises of content for days.

One person saying their opinion on who the scum is isn't a game solve, BBT took their vote off you and put it on Bella so you had ample breathing space to investigate and scum hunt. Given the number of pages there is a lot of information for you to investigate.

[Spartan117]

As far as claming it really does no good as its not going to do anything and a person in my state would claim VT. Its funny how this works out and proving the point. This lynch feels like nothing more then just eliminate someone whos really not doing anything because we can't take them into a mylo. Which is where this game is heading.

Of course claiming is good, it's important for you to do when someone details intent to hammer, if you are town you would do it, but given your resistance again it very much makes you look like scum. A town PR would claim in this position to give themselves a chance for the town to eliminate scum instead, even if the scum team kills them in the night they are preventing a guarenteed mis-elim in the day vote, we don't want to flip you and see you are a town PR think I would want some time away for a while if that was the case.

Claiming PR again doesn't mean your town but it actually gives us a decision to make if you are genuine town PR or scum trying to save their skin and trying to out a counter claim. At the moment it doesn't really feel like a decision..

[Spartan117]

feels like nothing more then just eliminate someone whos really not doing anything

That is exactly what this is, you have not attempted to scum hunt and only contributed when prompted to, multiple people have pleaded with you to put effort into this with no result.

[Spartan117]

Intent to hammer before bed time (about three hours)

Its alright I can hammer him if you need to sleep, he has made albeit another promise for content saying he's not gonna let the day end without some I fo going around, so if there is any chance of that I would like to see it.

[Spartan117]

a person in my state would claim VT

Can we get confirmation please, is this your actual claim?

[Spartan117]

Is anyone around or are we just going to night 2?

[Spartan117]

I'm not going to let this day end without some information going around

Where is it Elmo? Where is this information you promised? Looking back at it now, it seems like you was indicating you would let us talk more before you self hammered... how kind of you, shame you never gave us

anything

yourself.. you better not be town. Seen a couple of semi cryptic messages making me think you're scum so lets hope..

Goodnight Peeps

VOTE: Elmo

[Spartan117]

did nobody read what I posted

You need to be more specific, what are you referring to?

[Spartan117]

I thought you were going to self hammer?

If you're calling a bluff I have an hour

Not anymore bye bye

[Spartan117]

Ooooh now this is exciting!

[Spartan117]

idek now, i'd like to hear what spartan has to say today

Okay but like you need to be more specific, you wanna hear me talk about sport? Or the weather? Cos I'm predicting some thunder and lightening today!

[Spartan117]

Also, if tapio ans bluesnake didn't hammer, do we have some clears?

Is it 3 to elim right now or 4? Cos we didn't have a night kill

[Spartan117]

Everyone seems to be active so it doesn't look like the scum team forgot, so I'm expecting some spicy PR shenanigans

[Spartan117]

did nobody read what I posted

What was this referring to?

Yes this is what I was thinking also, strange how it happened right at the end of the last day and after a few posts so far today no reference to it...

[Spartan117]

6 alive, nis lim, 5, nk, 4, scum just hammers? So tapio or bluesnake could've won then.

Maybe they didn't know?

[Spartan117]

Im not writing it off.

[Spartan117]

like three separate people thought

I SR elmo based off activity which I think I was pretty explicitly not

? I gave my reasoning
it was kind of frustrating

So frustraiting that you didn't quote your posts for clarity after 2 people ask you what you arev alking about?

You didn't scum read him for activity? Was it not activity that you was referring to here?

i don't like the posts they've made and

i don't like the time it's taken to make them even with an excuse

How is this different from Greeting?

what do you mean?

[Spartan117]

Also why does it matter? Why does it matter for other players to think you are scum reading them for activity when they were very inactive and lurking continuously, with you having other reasons to scum read them. Why is that frustraiting if they were eliminated anyway? Its not like people weren't listening to you and as such someone else was elimed other than your scum read?

[Spartan117]

@spartan can I get an answer to 330?

Vibes.... feeling... hunches... more will be revealed day 3

I think youll find I did, I am allowed to work based on the above and that was my interpretation at the time, which of course can evolve, I need to re-evaluate given the flip and no NK what the possibilities are, personally I feel we need more information elsewhere before I will have all my answers for how this day should end, but I'm going to check some stuff where I can to strengthen my search.

[Spartan117]

i suppose you are right that people are reading though

i felt like i was very clear about my vote but perhaps it was a mistake on my end

There is nothing wrong with having some part of a scum read based off inactivity and I'm not saying that your scum read was solely based off inactivity as you stated you had other reasons but you did reference their activity amongst your thoughts on their slot which was very much a general consensus and that in itself is frusttraiting as it just hurts town and throws the game, their claim to self hammer dammed it more...

[Spartan117]

But now it's more important than ever we come together and try and figure this thing out, no time for inactivity shenanigans we need to focus otherwise this will all be over and have been for nothing.

[Spartan117]

Blue and Spartan I like for town unless I am horrible at reading.

Means there are two scum in Tapio, Looker and Bella.

I am currently of the mind of Bella and Looker, feeling better with Tapio atm.

[Spartan117]

It's bbt. Like, either they are town with awful, awful reads (their top scum reads have been town x 3) and scum decided to kill them night 2 for....reasons?? Or they are just scum.

Could we have Info on who you jailkept night 1?

I did personally feel like they were town on their play as apose to how I've seen them play when they are scum in multiple games.

I feel like now you've claimed shouldn't we have the other PR claim to minimise the slots left for the scum to hide?

[Spartan117]

Also btw I really dodnt suspect you as a PR Bella so you did a good job keeping that on the down low

[Spartan117]

Damn both of you chose me N1 I feel honored

[Spartan117]

I jailed Spartan n1, so that....tracks .

So, either bbt tried to kill someone, or one of Spartan or looker tried to kill bbt. Thsoe are our only options?

So from my perspective its either Looker who tried to kill BBT or BBT was Rbed from performing a kill

[Spartan117]

Okay so we have a jailkeeper and a tracker who is Bella and BlueSnake respectively provided there are no counter claims. We also have a mafia rollblocker.

The scum team thus must fall on 2 of
BBT, Spartan, Looker and Tapio.

Night 1 I was tracked and jailed, there was a night kill.
Night 2 BBT was jailed, there was no Night kill, Tapio was tracked and they visited no one, so if Tapio is scum they would have to be the mafia goon.

[Spartan117]

Which feels more likely? I really want to think you are town.

Unsure right now, but it's now my job to assure you I am town so we can focus on getting the two scum from the remaining 3, although this is gonna be difficult as you know Bella from last game I can play a good scum game and everything I am saying can be from a scumSpartan or TownSpartan, I will say I was less motivated this game and felt less pressure to prove my reads and put effort in than I did last game as consequences were higher then but thats up to you and BlueSnake on how you read that.

I am at work currently and will be posting a little on my phone but will properly analyse when I get in on Looker bbt and tapio.

[Spartan117]

Possible scum teams look to be (obv none inc me from my perspective but this is for Bella, Blue Snake and the remaining VT)

BBT/Spartan (Spartan jailed N1 so BBT does both night kills, BBT blocked night 2)
BBT/Looker (BBT does n2 kill)
BBT/Tapio (BBT does n2 kill)

Looker/Spartan (BBT target N2, protected by Bella)
Looker/Tapio (BBT target N2, protected by Bella)
Tapio/Spartan (BBT target N2, protected by Bella)

There are 3 options on all 4 of us being scum, the more important metric in my eyes is BBT being the target for the N2 kill or not, I personally felt like he was bossing it us as town and had a town read on him as such although with the numbers changing and it being 2 from 4 now (2 from 3 in my position) this read would make it 100% Tapio/Looker for me. That's my current personal Stance and I understand if you guys wanna throw me in the mix because ofc I am in it.
I think its important to try and figure out if BBT would have been the target N2 and if not who would have been a better target then if he wasn't. Personally I was trying to play a little off, more so day 1 but day 2 a little so as to not be the obv town read of everyone again and get Night Killed again..

[Spartan117]

Gihardi, Spartan and tapioaco maybe town. #hottakes

Bella can you join my wagon please? I wanna be in the sus'd pool so I make it to day 2.

Example early on of my intent to not seem super town so I make it further.

[Spartan117]

Hi. My slot was almost hammered. Huzzah

Also nails suck to type with

Currently at a point where I think its one of Tapio or Elmo and one of BlueSnake or Looker.

VOTE: Tapio

Elmo - town
BlueSnake - Town Tracker

Tapio/Looker

I sorta called it?

[Spartan117]

BlueSnake what do you think of us eliminating Tapio?

[Spartan117]

BlueSnake what do you think of us eliminating Tapio?

So in answer to my very specific question to you BlueSnake you are against elimming Tapio today?

Is that correct?

[Spartan117]

May I remind you that if we don't elim 1 scum in this vote the game is over as it will go from 4 Town and 2 scum to 2 Town and 2 scum which is a Scum Victory. So it is incredibly important we hit 1 of the two scum.

[Spartan117]

I don't think so. I really feel that BBT and Spartan are trying to get a miselimination Today at all costs.

Please tell me where I have made you think I am trying to get a miselim, I am hiding nothing bar 1 very slight concern, I have broken out all the possible combinations to make the situation as clear as possible to you. Including night action involvements.

Also you are currently only 99% Town for me still.

[Spartan117]

I am currently happy to eliminate anyone but Bella, she is the only person I trust, of course I want us to take our time and make this decision very carefully.

[Spartan117]

Is there a benefit to not answering my questions? I don't understand.

Looker would you be happy with a Tapio elim?

[Spartan117]

I am no longer convinced by my argument from Day 1. The fact that you weren't pushing for Greeting's elimination can be more easily explained by you being town, and having no reason to eliminate Greeting, then by being scum and having a 4D chess plan to gain a minuscule amount of towncred. After thinking about it a few times, it became obvious that the potential reward that Scum!Spartan would gain with it does not outweigh the risk of failing to eliminate Greeting.

This post which BBT pointed out previously is my only main reason that I'm holding onto my town read of your slot and believe your claim. I think it is between BBT, Tapio and Looker but game mechanics wise can't let myself rule out the possibility that you have played us but I think the option to salvage us from that situation isn't possible.

I will break my reasoning down more when I get in tonight between the 3 and would be personally happy to elim Tapio or Looker as I think that's where the scum team lies, I could see from their posts them flounder somewhat after the PRs revealed.

[Spartan117]

Tapio is scum yeah?

It's because this elimination is so critical that I'm doubting the push on Tapioca. Mafia wants us to get it wrong just as much as we want to get it right.

Had you had been pushing for Tapioca alone, I would've been more inclined to believe you. In that case, I would think you were a townie with a correct push on mafia, with the Mafia not knowing what to do in response.

But as things stand the way they are, with both you and BBT pushing for Tapioca, I believe in either of two possibilities:

- You and BBT are mafia working together to miseliminate Tapioca.
- You're a townie with a

wrong

push on Tapioca, and BBT is mafia trying to help you miseliminate Tapioca.

Really? Like I can understand them two possibilities but you are completely eradicating other options one of which I think is true which includes Tapio being scum, if you are genuinely town you should be looking at it that all 4 of us could be scum, and in my position because I know im town and because I've experience with BBT in playing multiple games with him before where he was scum and me not seeing him playing the same thus reading him as town and the two of us individually reading tapio alongside Looker as scum which from my position town reading bbt makes sense and is a serious possibility.

[Spartan117]

Bear in mind I was scum reading tapio before any of this PR stuff was revealed, and I'm not saying BBT is definitely scum it's still a possibility for me as Bella could have stopped him from killing night 2, and that's a stronger possibility for you being one of the mafia Goons in a C2 Setup, and I'm holding onto that not being the case because of what I said in my 538. I hope you can see where I am coming from evaluating all the options, so I am not trying to achieve a miselim, I am trying my best to put everything out there for the 3 other remaining town to come together and elim the 2 mafia.

[Spartan117]

It's because this elimination is so critical that I'm doubting the push on Tapioca. Mafia wants us to get it wrong just as much as we want to get it right.

It typically feels to me that the mafia want it more than us because there are only 2 of then so they gotta try extra hard, as town it is easy to fall I to the mindset of there being other town and letting them do the work for us.

[Spartan117]

Had you had been pushing for Tapioca alone, I would've been more inclined to believe you. In that case, I would think you were a townie with a correct push on mafia, with the Mafia not knowing what to do in response.

There are 4 players left who could possibly be scum 1 of them is BBT 1 of them is me, as town I know its not me, in BBTs position if he is town he knows its not him, if we are town reading each other it only makes sense for us to see Looker and Tapio as the only true game solve if we believe our reads ofc I won't know till after the game and that's the same for you, Bella and the other town.

I was in a game not too long ago where BBT and another player called Rad were the scum team we had no kill for N1 or N2 the jailkeeper jailed the kill target N1 and Rad got jailed N2, and Rad had seemed town albeit I was concerned he was pocketing me. The scum team ended up winning even tho we had no night kill night 1 or 2 because of bad decisions on the day elims. So by no means like I said am I ruling BBT out as I've seen that happen before, I just get a feel from his play he is town even if we did get two town lims day 1 and 2, i was part of that too, and they did in fairness seem very suspect.

[Spartan117]

so we're on bbt/spartan or me/looker?

I think that's pretty much where we are at currently which is funny to me given my previous games with BBT.

[Spartan117]

Bear in mind I was scum reading tapio before any of this PR stuff was revealed, and I'm not saying BBT is definitely scum it's still a possibility for me as Bella could have stopped him from killing night 2, and that's a stronger possibility for you being one of the mafia Goons in a C2 Setup, and I'm holding onto that not being the case because of what I said in my 538. I hope you can see where I am coming from evaluating all the options, so I am not trying to achieve a miselim, I am trying my best to put everything out there for the 3 other remaining town to come together and elim the 2 mafia.

why is bbt the n2 elim? like let's assume it's me/looker here, why are we shooting bbt?

Let me re go through it tonight when I get in, still at work atm

[Spartan117]

i guess you could make an argument for a bbt n2 elim following the nk15 n1 elim but I don't see

why

scum would do that when bbt is being scumread by town PRs

You'll have to tell us post game

Also what does the town PRs read on BBT have to do with whether he is a target when the scum didn't know they were the town PRs otherwise they would have targeted them instead.

[Spartan117]

The fact both Tapio and Looker want to elim BBT is kinda a confession to my slot they are scum and further evidence BBT is town to me.

[Spartan117]

I will put something together tonight, but it's in your hands now Bella and BlueSnake, I am happy to elim either of Looker or Tapio

[Spartan117]

I'm paranoid about Spartan and that is growing with him ignoring my posts.

I think my favourite elim is actually Looker atm. Everything they post looks scummy.

I've not had a chance to sit down I will and I'll respond to your posts I promise

[Spartan117]

we have no way of confirming bluesnake is actually tracker and it isn't C2 right? but i know it isn't me/bluesnake and I would expect him to use his claim to clear his buddy if he was scum so I don't think there is a world where he is scum?

This is why explicitly asked him if he would be up for a Tapio elim because of my concerns for the 1%, and if you was his partner saying he tracked you night 2 to clear you makes sense there. Where he happened to change his read on me early to setup for the potential of a C2 as scum would know they are in C and the start of this is game day would know they are in C2 so would be able to prepare for such a claim.

But I think if this is the case and Blue Snake just wins I don't think we ever go there today.

[Spartan117]

we have no way of confirming bluesnake is actually tracker and it isn't C2 right? but i know it isn't me/bluesnake and I would expect him to use his claim to clear his buddy if he was scum so I don't think there is a world where he is scum?

This is also why I waited on sharing my concern of the 1% as I didn't want to give you and Looker ammo to push blue snake and get a mis elim.

[Spartan117]

BBT are you town?

[Spartan117]

I'm paranoid because I don't really feel like you have questioned my alignment.

I also think you know that I can be a spiky player and so, if you were scum, you would try to stay out of my way.

I dont wanna boost your ego, but tbth if I am scum you become a priority elim for me, I just find we collide too much, I was much less fussed this game as was shown by my overall play style and have found it easier to read you from a distance than from up close so I'm learning somewhat on that. I think tbh as scum or Town me staying away from you is generally good, I'm not exactly sure how you read me generally but when we get too close it messes up my read on you although tbf I did scum read you the last two times and you was scum although the second time you changed my read and that lost me the game that time, plus other plays throwing.

I am scared in the back of my mind there is a chance it could be you and tapio or you and Looker with Bella stopping you kill night 2 but with both of them wanting to elim you that kinda makes me think you town, that could be what you told them to do in scum chat but idk feels hard to fake.

[Spartan117]

I'm paranoid because I don't really feel like you have questioned my alignment.

I also think you know that I can be a spiky player and so, if you were scum, you would try to stay out of my way.

I also think with you I end up making an early alignment decision and go from there and see if your later play matches up with my read which doesn't sound like the best thing to do but if I try and re-read you from scratch every time I feel I will go insane xD

[Spartan117]

i think game is solvable if we hit maf today doing the numbers in my head

Yup yup, agreed let's work together we got this!

[Spartan117]

so true besties

This is scum worried that Spartan and I will figure out each other are town.

Looker is really quiet at a real pivotal point of the game and really not saying much at all throughout the game.

VOTE: Looker

am i too hard to miselim

Nope.

I think you're goon and Looker is RB'er.

Agreed.

[Spartan117]

I wonder if Tapio is posting panicked messaged in their scum chat with Looker trying to get them back in here to defend their well established scum team.

[Spartan117]

awesome will you vote your scumbuddy with me please

You mean your scum buddy Looker?

You said before you were open to voting them, let's see a vote.

[Spartan117]

Post

[Spartan117]

yw hun

[Spartan117]

Looker is really quiet at a real pivotal point of the game and really not saying much at all throughout the game.

VOTE: Looker

am i too hard to miselim

Because you said this.

This post says you don't want Looker elimmed and would rather you were voted because if you lose your RB'er you know the game is over.

I'm probably lock voting Looker for the rest of this Day.

Oof.

Spartan/tapio didn't make masses of sense anyway though. Tapio has way more equity with bbt and now, weirdly, looker

It was a lot of repeated screaming matches and "witty" quips - I didn't even miss that much.

The fact both Tapio and Looker want to elim BBT is kinda a confession to my slot they are scum and further evidence BBT is town to me.

What's different about this than any other vote? Especially after I've previously suspected/voted BBT and he was JK'd on the night with no NK?

Spoiler: Also

we have no way of confirming bluesnake is actually tracker and it isn't C2 right? but i know it isn't me/bluesnake and I would expect him to use his claim to clear his buddy if he was scum so I don't think there is a world where he is scum?

This is why explicitly asked him if he would be up for a Tapio elim because of my concerns for the 1%, and if you was his partner saying he tracked you night 2 to clear you makes sense there. Where he happened to change his read on me early to setup for the potential of a C2 as scum would know they are in C and the start of this is game day would know they are in C2 so would be able to prepare for such a claim.

But I think if this is the case and Blue Snake just wins I don't think we ever go there today.

This was what I was trying to get at when I was asking Bella and BlueSnake what made them choose their targets, but BBT shut me down and tried to divert attention. Why are you shielding BBT?

I'm paranoid about Spartan and that is growing with him ignoring my posts.

I think my favourite elim is actually Looker atm. Everything they post looks scummy.

I'd like an example, please. Where? How? (I also find this funny, since my questions were ignored as well.)

Looker is really quiet at a real pivotal point of the game and really not saying much at all throughout the game.

VOTE: Looker

Another activity-based argument - even worse than the ones he used on Greeting and Elmo: "You're not awake when I'm awake, ergo you must be scum." Also, I have been posting throughout the game - it's not about quantity over quality to make yourself seem town. Especially if you're going to keep yelling the same thing without additional information or new revelations.

I'm tired and that's a really poorly constructed post.

And then the immediate disclaimer to 'soften the blow' of a very scummy move.

I don't understand what's difficult about this decision. BBT was scummy before, Bellaphant caught them, and now we get to try again. Regardless of whether you're friends with BBT irl or like them as a person or played with them in games before. I'm sure he'll still be your friend.

Looker, I know I'm town, you know I'm town, and as such with both you and tapio wanting to elim BBT, if he is scum who is his scum partner, the only possibility is one of you or Tapio trying to get a mis-elim, I just think it's much more likely we have got the two scum down a dead end they can't get out of.

Looker tell me would you be happy to elim Tapio today?

[Spartan117]

Eurgh I hate phone posting, I didn't even quote any posts here on purpose, ignore the quotes in the above I must have pressed the add quote on several or them by accident.

[Spartan117]

I don't know you're town, but that's the risk. I can do Tapio but if it's not Tapio/BBT we lose because I'm pretty confident it's BBT. Unless Bella has scum pegged and can stop the kill long enough for us to get another tracker result.

If you're sure BBT is scum that must mean 1 of me and Tapio are their partner, which given we have ruled out me Tapio I can see why you would be locked onto BBT from your perspective but if you was town wouldn't it have been better to try and solve their partner now rather than wait for tomorrow.

All this just makes me feel like you are playing for the end of the in game day not for the end of the game, because for you the end of the day is the end of the game provided you get your miselim.

Otherwise you would have been trying to work out who BBTs partner is today not just elim them and figure that out tomorrow. I do get it, it is very hard for scum when town have sorta figured things out.

[Spartan117]

Because at this point, at least one of BBT/BlueSnake is scum and you've expressed reservations regarding the claimed PR but not BBT who was caught last night.

Are you saying you'd rather elim BlueSnake rather than Tapio?
I felt it right to make it clear that it is a possibility, a possibility that I don't think is the case but a possibility all the same.

I was town reading BBT before the Prs revealed, and they revealed we have 2 scum in me you tapio and BBT, thus knowing I'm town I am left with 2 scum from 3, and I had a pre existing town read on one of that 3, the other 2 then pushed that same slot I was town reading so you can see from my perspective that it feels like you both revealed your intent. Which only proved to strengthen my town read on their slot, unless 1 of you is town and is mimicking the scum bussing.

[Spartan117]

I'm pretty sure we know where the disagreement is - you had a pre-existing townread on BBT and I had a pre-existing scumread on BBT. I also feel the PR reveal was more damning than clearing and the subsequent gamestate pretty much confirms it for me.

And no, I wouldn't rather elim BlueSnake than Tapio. I was referencing that you were more skeptical of BlueSnake than you were of BBT and that that's not something to overlook.

Okay, fair enough. So who's BBTs partner?

[Spartan117]

Looker if you was genuinely town you would have been more paranoid of who it is between BBT, Tapio, and me, except you've been locked onto BBT being one of the mafia from your position and as that's enough for your miselim win condition you've left it there which leaves a big void where the general towniness of trying to find the team as a whole at this stage, something I did early one right after the PRs revealed.

[Spartan117]

In a world where my town read on BBT is wrong and he is scum against me for the third time in a row, it could be possible for him to be partnered with Tapio or Looker, although both of them pushing to elim him doesn't make sense if one is his partner, wouldn't they try abd get a mis elim on the other from tapio or Looker rather than bus their own teammate?

[Spartan117]

I had a chance to skim back through BBTs ISO but didn't get enough time to really comment on it properly and I did see in isolation him pushing on both of them in the past so there could have been some distancing done earlier on to prepare for such a situation abd BBT is very experienced.

I'm just struggling with the fact, Looker only wants to elim BBT so makes it hard to believe he is his partner, and Tapio wants to elim one of BBT or me, and I know I'm town so it just doesn't make sense.
If one of them is his partner and they elim him it's then 1v3 and the night kill will be you or Blue Snake so I know I'll be around. I just would have thought trying to elim the other from tapio or looker would have been easier.

If this world does exist I feel from my pov it would be either

Tapio/Looker
Or
Tapio/BBT

So wouldn't tapio be the better vote? And then both you and bluesnake PR the same person and they wouldn't be able to block both of you, although I suppose they could block you and kill blue snake. Does the role blocker have precidenss over the jailkeeper?

[Spartan117]

bbt elim bbt elim

Are you bussing your partner? In this minimal prodge.

[Spartan117]

Are you just trying to wait us out and let us make the wrong decision?

[Spartan117]

I would really appreciate you addressing this.

Without going through all the posts right now, to summarise what I meant, I was referring to my own personal perspective of how I like to play and how I have seen BBT play in the past and how he has played this game, and I can full understand the confusion of me saying that with the results we have had with the flips.
But I have found his play in past games to be opportunistic looking for wagons to jump on and get others to do the work for him while agreeing with some things and challenging people to the point they would question their own reads.
In this game I saw his play looking a lot more hungry for results pushing people asking for answers, going back and trying to get info from people, and yes that has lead to a couple of town flips but you guys can't say that they weren't warranting that sus and most of us were on them wagons too, part of it may also be the pressure he's not putting on me this game two which could come from being pocketed as I have some what I feel are a couple sus things that he hasn't pushed buy I would have thought scumBBT would have pushed them idk.

[Spartan117]

All Newbie games use the Natural Action Resolution system for determining Night action effects.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

Letting this come down to PRs is not ideal.

Thank you for finding that.

[Spartan117]

- I'm willing to vote BBT or Looker.

Why are you unwilling to vote Tapio again?

I understand you tracked them and they didn't go anywhere but they could be the mafia goon
If it is BBT/Tapio or Looker/Tapio, Tapio is the goon in both cases.

[Spartan117]

am paranoid that a newbie team doesn't eliminate in bbt/Spartan night one though

I feel weird that I would have thought if BBT was scum he would night kill me night 1 like he has done previously, the fact we are both still alive and he hasn't pushed me much this game feels weird partly also why I don't think he's scum.

I thought I acted sufficiently night 1 to avoid being the night kill target and I did. Which makes me think it wouldn't have been an SE mafia.

[Spartan117]

- I'm willing to vote BBT or Looker.

Why are you unwilling to vote Tapio again?

I understand you tracked them and they didn't go anywhere but they could be the mafia goon
If it is BBT/Tapio or Looker/Tapio, Tapio is the goon in both cases.

We're running out of time. If you, BBT and Bella are willing to vote Tapio, I'm voting with you.

We have 2 and a half days left, we can still talk this through before we make a decision.

[Spartan117]

That's less than 2 prods away from the deadline. We're reaching a point were one can just shut up until the end of the day if they want. If we don't make a decision now, we might not get the chance.

We can still talk about it until the deadline, but we need a course of action prepared just in case.

If they go on radio silence till the deadline that is pretty much an admission of guilt given the circumstances.

[Spartan117]

They don't have to shut up, though; they can post and just ignore all your points. They can even make a prodge out of telling other people to ignore your points.

If you have the numbers to vote out Tapioca, I'm not going to DoS the thread with spam.

But like I said before communication today helps decisions tomorrow if there is gonna be one, its frustraiting the refusal to put effort in if either of you I'd town you should be doing everything to show us so any work with us, otherwise scum win by default and that's not a victory worth earning.

[Spartan117]

That's less than 2 prods away from the deadline. We're reaching a point were one can just shut up until the end of the day if they want. If we don't make a decision now, we might not get the chance.

We can still talk about it until the deadline, but we need a course of action prepared just in case.

If they go on radio silence till the deadline that is pretty much an admission of guilt given the circumstances.

Ok, I'll retract #665.

So you're not willing to vote tapio?

[Spartan117]

How can you write off BBT/Tapio, and Looker/Tapio so easily, as they are the two positions I'm at right now.

[Spartan117]

Why couldn't tapio and Looker have tried to elim BBT knowing he's town and would be more confrontation given the events of the first couple days than if they had elimed one of us 3

[Spartan117]

I feel like Bella and I were in agreement on BBT, which prompted them to JK BBT and consequently prevent a NK. Tapio could be scum, but it seems like the sure shot is BBT.

So we elim BBT today then who tomorrow?

[Spartan117]

But don't you see blue snake that BBT gives them a reason to kill BBT? He has said that his scum read of tapio has disappeared and that he now reads elmo and Bella as scum, well given elmo flipped town if left alive he is either going to keep pushing Bella or go back to tapio, also after BBT is might killed and if he flips town they can point at what he said there that he no longer sussed Tapio and had sussed Bella so they can use that to push on Bella who is less confrontational than BBT, in these last few days it's ofc about any PRs but also about who you can beat in an argument abd BBT was involved in pushing on the previous wagons.
I also want to reiterate that I don't understand how, if Tapio and Looker are town (at this point one of them is definitely scum) that they would just go after BBT, there are 4 of us and realistically each of them should be sussing the other 3 remaining possible scum.

[Spartan117]

Why would Tapioca kill BBT instead of Bella. Why would she want to leave Bella alive for "more confrontation" when it was obvious she would be confronted as well?

Its the level of confrontation, and whether it can be diverted/sufficient sus thrown back/handled that a miselim could be achieved

[Spartan117]

I didn't even considered a BBT/Tapioca duo, however. Doesn't seem likery at first (why would BBT push Tapioca so quickly instead of drawing votes towards Looker immediately?), but I'll look more into it.

To buss their teamate so if one of them goes down its possible for the partner to still get the win, it can be common with distancing.

[Spartan117]

BBT could have very likely asked Tapio to push them so they don't look paired and then work with us for a Looker elim and then they win.

[Spartan117]

Had you had been pushing for Tapioca alone, I would've been more inclined to believe you. In that case, I would think you were a townie with a correct push on mafia, with the Mafia not knowing what to do in response.

There are 4 players left who could possibly be scum 1 of them is BBT 1 of them is me, as town I know its not me, in BBTs position if he is town he knows its not him, if we are town reading each other it only makes sense for us to see Looker and Tapio as the only true game solve if we believe our reads ofc I won't know till after the game and that's the same for you, Bella and the other town.

I was in a game not too long ago where BBT and another player called Rad were the scum team we had no kill for N1 or N2 the jailkeeper jailed the kill target N1 and Rad got jailed N2, and Rad had seemed town albeit I was concerned he was pocketing me. The scum team ended up winning even tho we had no night kill night 1 or 2 because of bad decisions on the day elims. So by no means like I said am I ruling BBT out as I've seen that happen before, I just get a feel from his play he is town even if we did get two town lims day 1 and 2, i was part of that too, and they did in fairness seem very suspect.

what about his play in this game makes you feel he's town as opposed to that game?

After BBT is elimed and he flips red, who is your elim tomorrow?

Also check my iso I've made multiple posts about it

[Spartan117]

Are you just trying to wait us out and let us make the wrong decision?

ironic

How is it ironic, you are the one asking me to go back and quote my own posts because you can't be bothered to read them... and the fact you are refusing to and refusing to give me an answer to my question proves my point...

[Spartan117]

my elim tomorrow is dependent on this information

Doesn't sound like you're going to get one.

[Spartan117]

I read your ISO and I do not see an answer to my question so I will ask again
what about BBT's play makes him more likely to be town this game as opposed to the one you mentioned earlier where he was scum?

You quoted 15 of my posts and still didnt read through my ISO did you... #660 is in response to bella asking about my read and there are several snippets throughout...

[Spartan117]

if we elim BBT today my elim tomorrow is spartan

Of course it is... if you was genuinely town you would be more cooperative..

[Spartan117]

i also find it very unlikely that spartan wouldn't know how NAR works considering

he mentioned a game in this thread

with the same setup (JK, tracker, RB/goon),

where he was the tracker, and where there was speculation on roleblock within the game

. he's made a lot of posts detailing the possibilities on scumteams, i think he would have considered the ramifications of whether we vote mafia RB or goon today.

Do you actually think its AI for me to ask a game mechanic question? You think I go round memorising all the game mechanics and priorities from something that happened months ago and wasn't even connected to my own role at the time?... Seriously..

Interesting Tapio how my only mention of that game is below and I neither mentioned my role being tracker or that there was speculation on roleblocking within that game. I never even mentioned there was a tracker in that game so how could you have known it was a JK/track, RB/goon setup hmmm. The only way you could have known that information was if BBT who was scum in that game had told you that in the scum thread, thanks for the gamesolve. Since Blue snake tracked you last night and you didnt go anywhere, that makes BBT the roleblocker.

VOTE: BBT

I was in a game not too long ago where BBT and another player called Rad were the scum team we had no kill for N1 or N2 the jailkeeper jailed the kill target N1 and Rad got jailed N2, and Rad had seemed town albeit I was concerned he was pocketing me. The scum team ended up winning even tho we had no night kill night 1 or 2 because of bad decisions on the day elims. So by no means like I said am I ruling BBT out as I've seen that happen before, I just get a feel from his play he is town even if we did get two town lims day 1 and 2, i was part of that too, and they did in fairness seem very suspect.

Bella please jail Tapio, thanks.

[Spartan117]

I have also seen multiple instances of distancing between Tapio and BBT and setting up to elim me tomorrow which would give Tapio the win, no thanks.

[Spartan117]

some of his play in that game to be remarkably similar to this game

If you read through that game you would have seen that I had town read BBT in that game too, maybe its just my misreading him, but if you are genuinely town that would mean a BBT/Looker game and they are both happy to elim each other, so this game is really confusing, can you guys just night kill me tonight please and leave it up to Bella and BlueSnake to figure this out.

[Spartan117]

some of his play in that game to be remarkably similar to this game

If you read through that game you would have seen that I had town read BBT in that game too, maybe its just my misreading him, but if you are genuinely town that would mean a BBT/Looker game and they are both happy to elim each other, so this game is really confusing, can you guys just night kill me tonight please and leave it up to Bella and BlueSnake to figure this out.

if you are town and you misread him in that game then

why are you relying on meta for your townread of BBT?

if it weren't for that game, would you still townread BBT, and if so why?

I'm not relying on relying on meta for my townread, he was scum that game so that wouldnt make sense, I was raising a point how i could also have been mistaken this game in the way I have tried to read his play like i was in that game. I have commented a lot on where my read has come from on his play this game, at this point i dont know if any of my reads matter anymore, i feel like scum will win either way. If you did genuinely read that game, then im still stuck on bbt/tapio, bbt/looker, tapio/looker.

Bella and bluesnake let me know who you think it is and where we should go I feel like i cant break it down between the 3.

[Spartan117]

idk anymore

UNVOTE:

[Spartan117]

Fuck me, that was scummy as shit. What was that?

Can we please eliminate Looker?

If what I did was scummy, why do you want to eliminate Looker?

[Spartan117]

You guys are just playing with my sanity at this point

[Spartan117]

Fuck me, that was scummy as shit. What was that?

Can we please eliminate Looker?

If what I did was scummy, why do you want to eliminate Looker?

Because I don't think you're scum but that 180 on me had to be acknowledged.

If you're scum, I'm resigned to losing this game because I just don't think I ever vote you over Tapio or Looker.

Its not 180, I'm just getting messed up on my reading its 2 of you tapio and Looker, and I am obv not 100% on a game solve even tho I wish I was :/

[Spartan117]

I'm almost sure that the scum pair isn't Tapioca/Looker. I still assert that Tapioca/Looker would've kill Bella instead of BBT. Yes, BBT had to potential to push Tapioca Day 3, but Bella certainly would, and their push would be taken more seriously than BBT due to BBT's bad reads this game.

How can you be so sure?? I get that the day elims were town but BBT wasn't the only one who voted them and read them as scum. Surely there must be more reasoning other than just the decision on last night's night kill?

[Spartan117]

@bella @blue who are you targeting tonight

Bella I need you, help

[Spartan117]

Can we just go back to last game, such simpler times

[Spartan117]

VOTE: Tapio

Can we have a prod on Bella please, we need her back.

[Spartan117]

Will switch to Tapio if needed but much prefer Looker.

Can you do it now please while you are here, thanks.

[Spartan117]

As an aside, after driving through what turned out to be two mislims, there is no way on this planet I put myself forward to do that kill as scum.

That's true I didn't think of that.

[Spartan117]

Is it that you think I don't read Tapioca's posts or responses to other players? Or is it that you feel I have unique, proprietary questions that only I can ask Tapioca?

I've literally asked you direct questions in relation to tapio that have been left unanswered this actually applys to both of you; I don't really know what the two of you expected getting to the end of day 3, neither of you really towned it up.

[Spartan117]

I think you don't need to interact with each other because you blatantly don't need to figure out each other's alignment.

Unless you can quote some posts of yours in this entire game that shows otherwise?

Can you find a single post of yours that shows you trying to figure out Tapio's alignment?

Tapio/Looker if either of you are actually town can you please do this.

[Spartan117]

Can't even speak about each other

This is the thing that troubles me the most, like if they were some VT with no partner there would have been actual physical evidence of them reviewing each other as scum but they both seem so hesitant to do so, which stands out as such a red flag.