Newbie 2105 | Game Over

[BlueSnakelet]

Hello! Just checking in.

[BlueSnakelet]

well, we're in RVS and I feel that while bellaphant's vote on me seemed very sus as when there are multiple mafia sometimes one might vote the person who is throwing suspicion at them to shut them up

. So when I voted greeting and the post after bellaphant voted for me seemed like that. Also I really dont get how saying hi to the mod and voting someone would be "really awkward" when that's what everyone else is doin. Seems like justifying something after the fact. Also Greeting your RVS vote on Bellaphant doesn't really mean anything as you could just change it later. I mean that seems like the kind of "evidence" that you throw around that doesn't make any sense when held up to any amount of scrutiny

Would they? I'd think one scum would try to distance themself from another, not risk it all for one vote during RVS.

I agree with the rest. I would see Bella's vote on Player6 as just being part of RVS if they hadn't explained it in #19.

[BlueSnakelet]

I'll just go ahead and VOTE: Bella for now.

.a) I'm not new
B) that's not why I voted you. Your post was really awkward and felt like new scum posting for something to say. It doesn't pass the so what test.

I really don't see how Player6's entrance was awkward. I think Bella voted for him without a reason (which would be fine, since the game was still in the RVS) and then retroactively invented a reason once Player6 voted for them.

[BlueSnakelet]

I'll just go ahead and VOTE: Bella for now.

Page 2 looks like a good time for a juicy RVS Hammer you have been judged Bella to be too sussy for our company. Begone!

VOTE: Bellaphant

That's not a hammer. Bella is in E-1 now. Tapioca unvoted.

[BlueSnakelet]

*Tapioca changed votes

[BlueSnakelet]

I'll just go ahead and VOTE: Bella for now.

.a) I'm not new
B) that's not why I voted you. Your post was really awkward and felt like new scum posting for something to say. It doesn't pass the so what test.

I really don't see how Player6's entrance was awkward. I think Bella voted for him without a reason (which would be fine, since the game was still in the RVS) and then retroactively invented a reason once Player6 voted for them.

Why would anyone do that?
Why is that more likely than 'i really didn't like his post '.

Because this was "his post":

Hello FurtiveGlance, I just played with you last game lol
VOTE: Greeting

Please explain how exactly this is scummy. That's all I'm asking.

[BlueSnakelet]

well, we're in RVS and I feel that while bellaphant's vote on me seemed very sus as when there are multiple mafia sometimes one might vote the person who is throwing suspicion at them to shut them up. So when I voted greeting and the post after bellaphant voted for me seemed like that. Also I really dont get how saying hi to the mod and voting someone would be "really awkward" when that's what everyone else is doin. Seems like justifying something after the fact. Also Greeting your RVS vote on Bellaphant doesn't really mean anything as you could just change it later. I mean that seems like the kind of "evidence" that you throw around that doesn't make any sense when held up to any amount of scrutiny

@Blue
This just feels very anxious like worried about what people think of then so early on, so much so that they need to try and defend themselves so early on, typically scum are more defensive when accused than town but it can also be part of the way the person takes accusations so not always alignment indicative.

I'm not really reading Player6 right now. I agree that his #16 accusation was unreasonable. It's Bella's #19 response that made me worried.

[BlueSnakelet]

Okay, let's try from a new angle...

First, Tapioca (a new player on her second game) posted this:

hello everyone ^^

VOTE: Player6

Later, Ghardi (a new player on their first game) posted this:

Hi everyone. Looking forward to the game

VOTE: Tapiocaphobe

Later, P6 (a new player on his second game) posted this:

Hello FurtiveGlance, I just played with you last game lol
VOTE: Greeting

Finally, Bella votes for P6, in a post that contained only the vote:

VOTE: player six

By itself, this would be fine. The game was still in it's RVS after all. But when questioned, Bella doesn't say that their vote was random. They said that P6's post was "really awkward and felt like new scum posting for something to say".

But if so, then why was P6's post "really awkward and felt like new scum posting for something to say"? And why wasn't Tapioca's and Ghardi's posts "really awkward and felt like new scum posting for something to say"?

Is it because P6 addressed the mod?
Is it because P6 referred back to a past game of his?
Is it because P6 didn't end his post with a smiling face?
Is it because P6 ended his post with a lol?
If none of the above, THEN WHY?

[BlueSnakelet]

It's seriously late where I am, but I didn't want to go to sleep before finishing this. This are my thoughts on the game prior to me replacing in.

Greeting's #7:

Perfectly regular random vote on Bella.

P6's #10:

Perfectly regular random vote on Greeting.

Bella's #11:

(Seemingly) random vote on P6.

P6's #16:

Vote on Bella, while calling out Bella x Greeting, due to the vote on #11. #11 looked just like a random vote at that moment. At best, this is a townie overreacting. At worst, he's mafia trying to appear as a overreacting townie.

If P6 is mafia here, I don't think #16 was meant to actually cast suspicion on Bella x Greeting. His accusation didn't have a leg to stand on at that moment. It was just to give the appearance that he was trying to find mafia.

Bella's #19:

In response to P6's #16, they explain their #11 vote. They said that #10 was "really awkward and felt like new scum posting for something to say", and that's why they voted. I'm not satisfied with this explain. #10 felt like a perfectly natural introduction. This leads me to believe that Bella made up that reason on the fly once questioned by P6. But when they did, they missed the very plausible explanation that "it was a random vote".

When someone (town or mafia) pushes for someone else, they have a reason. Townsfolk can usually disclose their reasons when asked (except if it's because of PRs, but that's not likely to be relevant Day 1). Mafia members, however, can never disclose their reasons, so they must give a fake reason instead. If they don't have a fake reason already, they make one up on the spot. That's why I'm scumreading Bella right now.

Greeting's #20:

Responding to #16, Greeting ask P6's opinion on a earlier post (#7) that contracts his logic. I like this post. Felt like a townie probing for info on a scummy player.

Ghardi's #21:

Responding to #16, Ghardi disagree with P6's logic and asks for clarification. I also like this post, for the same reason as Greeting's.

P6's #22:

This is a word salad. P6 does address Greeting's and Ghardi's posts in there, but it all felt... how should I say it? *clears throat*

really awkward

. P6 also questions Bella's #19, which he can absolutely do, so there's that.

P6's entrance also felt awkward to me

Please tell me why!

Conclusion

I'm giving a slight townread to Greeting and Ghardi.

I believe either Bella or P6 is mafia, but definitely not both. Leaning more on Bella.

I'll give my thoughts on the rest of game tomorrow. I'm going to bed now.

[BlueSnakelet]

Tapioca's #30:

I'm still not sure how Bella's reasoning tracks. And I don't think your reasoning here to suspect Spartan, Greeting and Ghardi track either. Of course they came in with little to say, we were still in the beginning of the game, there was little to say.

Spartan's #31, #36, #37, #50, #85:

nope nope nope nope nope nope no-

Tapioca's #52:

She changed her vote from Spartan to Greeting. She was scumreading both before, so I can only assume that Spartan's shenanigans made her less suspicious of them somehow.

Spartan's #60:

"Do you think scum want to try and be heavily sussed early on?" Yes, they would! They would just need to give the same explanation you just gave!

@blue 10 was null to me, 16 was an awkward joke and 22 was really defensive in a way that makes me think they aren't scum together

honestly i'm willing to believe it's town vs town but if there's a scum I really only see it being P6

if bella is scum I don't think they push P6 in RVS, P6 flipping town makes bella look way worse

, plus it gave us content and moved town out of RVS
in contrast P6 is a big ? to me, I originally read them as null lean town but 65/77 just feel way scummier to me
my gut feeling is that they're just really defensive town but I'm not sold on that

That... does make sense.

I don't see any good partners with scum!bella either

, P6 has a lot more

at this point I think we're a lot more likely to find scum outside bella/P6

Actually, you yourself would make a good scumpartner with Bella. Your reads and actions seem to match well together. But if you were really scumpartners, I don't think you would speak about their lack of viable partners like that, that would make it way too wasy. So I guess not.

Tapioca's #83:

I don't know what I feel from this "vote the lurkers" mentality.

Spartan's #87:

Ok, I suppose I can give you the benefit of the doubt for now.

I think I tunneled to hard based on just one post. Bella haven't done anything scummy since then, so I guess I should yield.

UNVOTE: Bella

I'm still a bit suspicious of Spartan, but I'll wait for now.

[BlueSnakelet]

do you feel like voting greeting with me?

Not really.

[BlueSnakelet]

So... Activity, huh?

VOTE: Spartan, I'd like to see a little more of their serious side.

I think Not Known is town in their pushing of Greeting, I just don't think they're right.

[BlueSnakelet]

So... Activity, huh?

VOTE: Spartan, I'd like to see a little more of their serious side.

I think Not Known is town in their pushing of Greeting, I just don't think they're right.

Why not?

Because I'm suspicious of Spartan and your only reason to suspect Greeting is their suspicion of Spartan.

[BlueSnakelet]

You might have a slight scumread on Spartan (I don't, there's nothing unnatural there;

don't fall into the trap of suspecting someone because they were scum last game.

That happens.).

Don't worry, I know how randomness works.

I have a question. You said before that Greeting wasn't acting how "Town Greeting" would. I didn't looked up anyone's past games (because I don't trust my abilities to analyze meta). Would you say that they're acting like in their scum games, or just that they're acting differently than in their town games?

[BlueSnakelet]

It isn't illogical to assume Greeting might be eliminated without Spartan's involvement, since the overall discourse between Greeting and their voters is more intense than with Spartan and their voters.

What I think it's happening is: Spartan is scum, and knows Greeting will flip town. By saying "pushing Greeting would be great for me, but idk, this overly scummy player might be town" Spartan is setting up a Day 2 where they can say "See? I was right! Y'all should've listened to me. See how great of a townie I am?"

[BlueSnakelet]

t isn't illogical to assume Greeting might be eliminated without Spartan's involvement

Its

illogical

? To assume greeting might be eliminated without my involvement.

I said it

ISN'T

illogical, meaning that Greeting might be eliminated even if you're not pushing for that.

[BlueSnakelet]

Also pushing greeting wouldn't be great for me as it is a clear and obvious tactic used by both alignments to try and relieve pressure.

You said before "It would be thought that I would want to try to join Greetings wagon and push them especially for their suspect push on me". If pushing Greeting wouldn't be great for you, then who would be "thinking" that?

[BlueSnakelet]

My point is that you're counting on Greeting being eliminated

without your help

, letting them flip town, while saying that pushing Greeting is what you would be doing if you didn't think Greeting was town.

[BlueSnakelet]

why do you think greeting is town blue?

I don't know why do you think they're mafia. The towniest Greeting has ever been in this game was the start, when they were probing P6 for info during the P6 vs Bella confrontation. After that, their actions were just null to me. I'm suspecting Spartan, P6 or Bella before I'm suspecting Greeting.

[BlueSnakelet]

why do you think greeting is town blue?

I don't know why do you think they're mafia. The towniest Greeting has ever been in this game was the start, when they were probing P6 for info during the P6 vs Bella confrontation. After that, their actions were just null to me. I'm suspecting Spartan, P6 or Bella before I'm suspecting Greeting.

I brought forward a case against Greeting, and you have dismissed it.

Why do you disagree with my case?

For one, because you didn't answer my #156 question.

And I don't think it's weird to suspect Spartan based on their entrance, or be inactive while the game laid dead. And that bit at the start is more than the 0 scum hunting you claim they did.

[BlueSnakelet]

My point is that you're counting on Greeting being eliminated

Why are you pushing this fake narrative, ive not given off that impression at all? Are you just speculating for effect? I've not had a chance to sit down and go through the last several pages properly and you are saying I'm doing all this stuff against Greeting when I've not been... its alarming at the very least. Why are you chosing to bypass the content that has been produced how about you interact with that, like I intend to rather than trying to push false narratives...

Yeah, I'm probably just overanalyzing your post, aren't I?

[BlueSnakelet]

For one, because you didn't answer my #156 question.

You disagree with them because they didn't answer your question? How petty

Tell me why its correct to actually sus me for my entrance especially with it having been explained, I can understand it being misunderstood, but after its been explained you seem blinded by agenda rather than logic...

VOTE: BlueSnakelet

No. I'm not convinced by their logic because I have unanswered doubts.

[BlueSnakelet]

Well, different from their towngame mostly, but not in a way that fits their town mindset.

Have you played or read any games with Greeting? If so, how does their scum game compares woth their "normal" town game?

[BlueSnakelet]

If I squint really hard Bella, 60 might come across as scum hunting. The rest is dross.

I'm waiting to hammer. If anyone wants to put Greeting to E-1, I would greatly appreciate it.

By scum hunting, you mean pushing for people? Wouldn't mafia also want to push for someone's elimination? I see those probing as a greater towntell than a straight up push.

[BlueSnakelet]

I'd be okay with this elimination. VOTE: Player6

[BlueSnakelet]

How likely it is for a Day 1 miselimination wagon to be composed entirely out of town?

I think there is mafia amongst them. I don't think both of them are, but surely at least one.

Out of the four remaining wagoners (Tapioca, P6, Spartan and Looker), I'm more suspicious of P6, who acted scummy from the beginning. But I want to give their replacement a chance for redemption.

I'm townleaning Tapioca and Looker. Tapioca created the wagon (while mafia would most likely jump into existing wagons), and Looker hammered Greeting only when they had no choice (other than letting a No Elimination go through).

I'm pretty sure Spartan is town. I know I argued otherwise before, but I changed my mind. I was only being way too confident in a tinfoil theory I created.

And finally, there's BlueBloodedToffee, who pushed for Greeting's elimination while staying off any wagon. That's a scumtell if I ever saw one. VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[BlueSnakelet]

Then why did you vote no one while pushing for Greeting's elimination, including incredulously asking "Howcome we haven't elimmed Greeting yet?"

[BlueSnakelet]

Prod dodge. Sorry, I didn't have time to read everything today. Will do tomorrow.

It appears Toffe waited until too late to vote Greeting was because they were waiting to hammer them. I'll unvote for now. UNVOTE: BlueBloodedToffe.

[BlueSnakelet]

I'm pretty sure Spartan is town. I know I argued otherwise before, but I changed my mind. I was only being way too confident in a tinfoil theory I created.

Why did your opinion on me change? I actually thought my game content was very lacking at the end/later stages of day 1.

I am no longer convinced by my argument from Day 1. The fact that you weren't pushing for Greeting's elimination can be more easily explained by you being town, and having no reason to eliminate Greeting, then by being scum and having a 4D chess plan to gain a minuscule amount of towncred. After thinking about it a few times, it became obvious that the potential reward that Scum!Spartan would gain with it does not outweigh the risk of failing to eliminate Greeting.

spartan was really scummy in d1. he had very little to say after RVS, talked repeatedly throughout the day about how unsure he was of greeting's slot (172, 175, 199, 226/227) without seemingly any interest in actually sorting the slot, but is very happy to vote him once town starts running out of time. he does, however, have a lot to say (and an OMGUS vote!) on blue for bringing up something I actually thought had some water to it: the idea that scum!spartan is happy to let greeting eliminate himself. spartan says himself in 175 that he has little influence on how the push goes (i think its also scummy he then goes on to imply there's scum voting him by "wondering" aloud without trying to sort). I'm honestly surprised blue backed off on this read today; NK15's flip should make that read

stronger,

considering we now know a big part of the push was town.

Not Known being the night kill is actually evidence against Spartan being scum. If my Day 1 argument was correct, Spartan wouldn't flip the ones who were greatly pushing Greeting. It would be better for Mafia if we didn't know that a big part of the push was town.

[BlueSnakelet]

Can everyone else give their opinions on Elmo as well please.

I scumread their predecessor, and that's about it.

[BlueSnakelet]

How likely it is for a Day 1 miselimination wagon to be composed entirely out of town?

Odds are a lot higher then you think there could be one easily the both don't need to be on there for a wagon lol back

I think there is mafia amongst them. I don't think both of them are, but surely at least one.

Out of the four remaining wagoners (Tapioca, P6, Spartan and Looker), I'm more suspicious of P6, who acted scummy from the beginning. But I want to give their replacement a chance for redemption.

I'm townleaning Tapioca and Looker. Tapioca created the wagon (while mafia would most likely jump into existing wagons), and Looker hammered Greeting only when they had no choice (other than letting a No Elimination go through).

I'm pretty sure Spartan is town. I know I argued otherwise before, but I changed my mind. I was only being way too confident in a tinfoil theory I created.

And finally, there's BlueBloodedToffee, who pushed for Greeting's elimination while staying off any wagon. That's a scumtell if I ever saw one. VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I like the thought behind this but I hate this post. Feels like you are trying to set something up.

What do you think I'm trying to set up? This isn't a rhetorical question. Please give me your best answer.

If I squint really hard Bella, 60 might come across as scum hunting. The rest is dross.

I'm waiting to hammer. If anyone wants to put Greeting to E-1, I would greatly appreciate it.

By scum hunting, you mean pushing for people? Wouldn't mafia also want to push for someone's elimination? I see those probing as a greater towntell than a straight up push.

This also doesn't make sense. Mafia just want people dead. Ideally stronger ones for to simplicity and people will be more likely to sheep and let the armchair qb take the role

And one of two ways for Mafia to make people dead is to push them during the day, is it not?

[BlueSnakelet]

It's prob just Bella/Elmo to be honest.

Will elim either.

With how the beginning of Day 1 went between Bella and Player6, I doubt that those two are a scum pair.

[BlueSnakelet]

How likely it is for a Day 1 miselimination wagon to be composed entirely out of town?

Odds are a lot higher then you think there could be one easily the both don't need to be on there for a wagon lol back

I think there is mafia amongst them. I don't think both of them are, but surely at least one.

Out of the four remaining wagoners (Tapioca, P6, Spartan and Looker), I'm more suspicious of P6, who acted scummy from the beginning. But I want to give their replacement a chance for redemption.

I'm townleaning Tapioca and Looker. Tapioca created the wagon (while mafia would most likely jump into existing wagons), and Looker hammered Greeting only when they had no choice (other than letting a No Elimination go through).

I'm pretty sure Spartan is town. I know I argued otherwise before, but I changed my mind. I was only being way too confident in a tinfoil theory I created.

And finally, there's BlueBloodedToffee, who pushed for Greeting's elimination while staying off any wagon. That's a scumtell if I ever saw one. VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I like the thought behind this but I hate this post. Feels like you are trying to set something up.

If I squint really hard Bella, 60 might come across as scum hunting. The rest is dross.

I'm waiting to hammer. If anyone wants to put Greeting to E-1, I would greatly appreciate it.

By scum hunting, you mean pushing for people? Wouldn't mafia also want to push for someone's elimination? I see those probing as a greater towntell than a straight up push.

This also doesn't make sense. Mafia just want people dead. Ideally stronger ones for to simplicity and people will be more likely to sheep and let the armchair qb take the role

I just realized you commented inside the quote block. Please don't do that. I just skim the content of quote blocks, so I'll just miss it.

I think you misunderstood my question. I didn't ask about how likely it is for there being only one mafia in a miselimination wagon. I asked how likely it is for there being NO mafia in the miselimination wagon.

Also, can you answer my #335 questions?

[BlueSnakelet]

VOTE: Elmo

On this note I'll self hammer. To get game state. Also 335
If i didn't make a post or talk about them then I consider them town

If we elim one more townie, the game will be thrown into a 5 player Elo. This is literally the worst case scenario. If you're really town, please take back what you said. Otherwise, I'm calling your bluff.

[BlueSnakelet]

7 and a half hours left. I doubt that we're goint to get anything useful out of Elmo now.

VOTE: Elmo, this is E-1.

[BlueSnakelet]

@spartan can I get an answer to 330?

Vibes.... feeling... hunches... more will be revealed day 3

I don't know about Tapioca, but this is what I was waiting for.

[BlueSnakelet]

You know we're in Milo, right?

[BlueSnakelet]

@Mod How many votes do we need to eliminate today?

[BlueSnakelet]

You know we're in Milo, right?

6 alive, nis lim, 5, nk, 4, scum just hammers? So tapio or bluesnake could've won then.

Maybe they didn't know?

I knew. That's why I said we're in Milo.

[BlueSnakelet]

Anyway, the rules say 50% of living players + 1 rounded down. This means we need 4 votes to eliminate with 6 living players. This is why Mafia didn't hammer.

[BlueSnakelet]

It's bbt. Like, either they are town with awful, awful reads (their top scum reads have been town x 3) and scum decided to kill them night 2 for....reasons?? Or they are just scum.

Could we have Info on who you jailkept night 1?

I did personally feel like they were town on their play as apose to how I've seen them play when they are scum in multiple games.

I feel like now you've claimed shouldn't we have the other PR claim to minimise the slots left for the scum to hide?

I'm a Tracker.

Spartan visited no one in Night 1.

Tapioca visited no one in Night 2.

[BlueSnakelet]

I jailed Spartan n1, so that....tracks .

So, either bbt tried to kill someone, or one of Spartan or looker tried to kill bbt. Thsoe are our only options?

That just threw a wrench in my reads.

I was townreading Spartan because I thought that, if they were Mafia, they would either be the one who killed Not Known or they would have used a Mafia PR on someone.

This opens the possibility that Spartan is a Mafia PR who couldn't visit anyone because they were jailed.

[BlueSnakelet]

I don't think so. I really feel that BBT and Spartan are trying to get a miselimination Today at all costs.

Failing that, I can see a BBT/Looker duo too. Either Spartan and BBT could be trying to draw votes away from Looker and into Tapioca, but I don't really see Spartan/Looker as a particularly likely option. Plus, Spartan was jailed Night 1 while a NK still occurred, so Spartan is a less likely suspected than BBT overall.

Either way, I think we should eliminate BBT today.

[BlueSnakelet]

It's because this elimination is so critical that I'm doubting the push on Tapioca. Mafia wants us to get it wrong just as much as we want to get it right.

Had you had been pushing for Tapioca alone, I would've been more inclined to believe you. In that case, I would think you were a townie with a correct push on mafia, with the Mafia not knowing what to do in response.

But as things stand the way they are, with both you and BBT pushing for Tapioca, I believe in either of two possibilities:

- You and BBT are mafia working together to miseliminate Tapioca.
- You're a townie with a

wrong

push on Tapioca, and BBT is mafia trying to help you miseliminate Tapioca.

[BlueSnakelet]

I'm willing to eliminate Looker Today.

@Looker, any thoughts on the most recent turn of events?

[BlueSnakelet]

As I suspected.

Can we just get this over with now?

Snake, vote Looker please.

Are you trying to convince me you and Looker aren't a scum pair?

Sure, I'll graciously grant your request: VOTE: Looker

[BlueSnakelet]

is it more likely that we have a confused townie helping scum bus or that two scum are trying to push a miselim

the latter is way more likely to me

It's more like scum tried to help the "confused" townie to miseliminate someone, met some resistance, and resorted to bussing as a failsafe measure.

I'm townreading Spartan here. I feel their scumhunt attempts are genuine.

[BlueSnakelet]

It's because this elimination is so critical that I'm doubting the push on Tapioca. Mafia wants us to get it wrong just as much as we want to get it right.

Had you had been pushing for Tapioca alone, I would've been more inclined to believe you. In that case, I would think you were a townie with a correct push on mafia, with the Mafia not knowing what to do in response.

But as things stand the way they are, with both you and BBT pushing for Tapioca, I believe in either of two possibilities:

- You and BBT are mafia working together to miseliminate Tapioca.
- You're a townie with a

wrong

push on Tapioca, and BBT is mafia trying to help you miseliminate Tapioca.

Like, I just ISO'd him and saw this post then looked again at his vote on Looker and I'm just like...what?

I also suspected you/Looker. That's the second alternative.

[BlueSnakelet]

The second part of her sentence isn't a negating statement, it's a question.

[BlueSnakelet]

UNVOTE:

As far as I can tell...

• - I'm willing to vote BBT or Looker.
  - Spartan is willing to vote Tapioca or Looker.
  - BBT is willing to vote Tapioca or Looker.
  - Tapioca is willing to vote Spartan or BBT.
  - Looker is willing to vote BBT.
  - Bella is undecided.

If I got something wrong or missed anything, please tell.

Let's count potential votes:

Spartan (1): Tapioca.
BBT (3): Snake, Tapioca, Looker.
Tapioca (2): Spartan, BBT.
Looker (3): Snake, Spartan, BBT.

As you can see, nobody hit the magic number. The only way for us to get out of this situation is for someone to change their mind or for Bella to make up their mind.

Here's my proposal:

I'm going to do my best to clear my head of all preconceptions and read the entire game again. In exchange, I want everyone doing the same thing. How does that sound?

[BlueSnakelet]

All Newbie games use the Natural Action Resolution system for determining Night action effects.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

Letting this come down to PRs is not ideal.

[BlueSnakelet]

- I'm willing to vote BBT or Looker.

Why are you unwilling to vote Tapio again?

I understand you tracked them and they didn't go anywhere but they could be the mafia goon
If it is BBT/Tapio or Looker/Tapio, Tapio is the goon in both cases.

We're running out of time. If you, BBT and Bella are willing to vote Tapio, I'm voting with you.

[BlueSnakelet]

That's less than 2 prods away from the deadline. We're reaching a point were one can just shut up until the end of the day if they want. If we don't make a decision now, we might not get the chance.

We can still talk about it until the deadline, but we need a course of action prepared just in case.

[BlueSnakelet]

That's less than 2 prods away from the deadline. We're reaching a point were one can just shut up until the end of the day if they want. If we don't make a decision now, we might not get the chance.

We can still talk about it until the deadline, but we need a course of action prepared just in case.

If they go on radio silence till the deadline that is pretty much an admission of guilt given the circumstances.

Ok, I'll retract #665.

[BlueSnakelet]

I would prefer BBT unless Tapioca has boldly led both miselims as scum

@Looker, is this your only reason to be against a Tapioca elimination?

[BlueSnakelet]

I'm not.

[BlueSnakelet]

Not a single scum pair would target BBT Night 2. Bella really did catch BBT in the act of killing someone. After failing, they helped you push for Tapioca's elimination. When that also didn't go anywhere, they tried to bus their scum partner. These are the events of Today.

[BlueSnakelet]

Why couldn't tapio and Looker have tried to elim BBT knowing he's town and would be more confrontation given the events of the first couple days than if they had elimed one of us 3

Then they would've killed Bella instead. Bella was a townier player who's major pushes were on P6/Elmo (who's already dead) and Tapioca herself. Meanwhile, here's BBT's last stance on Tapioca before Night 2:

My SR of Tapio evaporated into thin air when your good self and Elmo became so obviously scum.

Why would Tapioca kill BBT instead of Bella. Why would she want to leave Bella alive for "more confrontation" when it was obvious she would be confronted as well?

I didn't even considered a BBT/Tapioca duo, however. Doesn't seem likery at first (why would BBT push Tapioca so quickly instead of drawing votes towards Looker immediately?), but I'll look more into it.

[BlueSnakelet]

Ok, here's my thoughts:

First of all, Spartan is locktown for me. At no point today I'll be voting them.

I'm almost sure that the scum pair isn't Tapioca/Looker. I still assert that Tapioca/Looker would've kill Bella instead of BBT. Yes, BBT had to potential to push Tapioca Day 3, but Bella certainly would, and their push would be taken more seriously than BBT due to BBT's bad reads this game.

This leaves Tapioca/BBT and Looker/BBT. These two pairs are possible in my book.

If it is Tapioca/BBT, then BBT immediately voted Tapioca to make us think there's no way they're a scum pair, then swiched to Looker in order to miseliminate them.

If it is Looker/BBT, then BBT immediately tried to push a miselimination in Yesterday's second largest wagon, then resorted to bussing when that didn't work, then had Looker cross-bus them. These two are plausible tactics a cornered scum pair might attempt.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee. If I need to switch to Tapioca or Looker in order to ensure a elimination, I will.

[BlueSnakelet]

Snake, you basically just said that no matter what I did, I am scum.

That's absurd.

But of course. Out of everyone alive, your the scummier one. I don't like any of your Day 3 posts. Not the one where you asked me to vote Looker without expecting me to actually do it. Nor how you left most of your defending to Spartan.

[BlueSnakelet]

UNVOTE:

Like, I will literally elim ANY of Tapio/Looker.

Do you believe they are a scum pair?

If yes, what do you think was their reason to target you?

If no, then who could be the pair for each one?

[BlueSnakelet]

I'm almost sure that the scum pair isn't Tapioca/Looker. I still assert that Tapioca/Looker would've kill Bella instead of BBT. Yes, BBT had to potential to push Tapioca Day 3, but Bella certainly would, and their push would be taken more seriously than BBT due to BBT's bad reads this game.

How can you be so sure?? I get that the day elims were town but BBT wasn't the only one who voted them and read them as scum. Surely there must be more reasoning other than just the decision on last night's night kill?

I can't know for certain, of course. But I really do believe that Bella catching scum is the most probable alternative to BBT being the target.

[BlueSnakelet]

I can only speculate as to why I was targeted.

I would assume scum were worried I would push them giving that I had managed to drive through two wagons?

That... Is certainly a possibility.

Next question: What was going through your head that time when you asked me to vote Looker and I did?

[BlueSnakelet]

As I suspected.

Can we just get this over with now?

Snake, vote Looker please.

Man, Snake's vote feels weird after suspecting Spartan and I

I'm talking about this. What was so weird about my vote?

At the time, I had the impression you didn't really expect for me to vote Looker. I thought you didn't actually want this elimination to go through.

[BlueSnakelet]

Ok, I'm no longer convinced you're Mafia. A Tapioca/Looker duo is definitively possible.

Most of your Day 3 ISO isn't as bad as recalled. I was probably biased against you from the start.

[BlueSnakelet]

All of Tapioca/BBT, Looker/BBT and Tapioca/Looker are possible, and I can't decide which.

Incidentally, isn't No Elimination an option Today? Scum can just shut down the PRs, so we can't have any help there. But if we can't decide by the deadline, we might just get another week to talk.

[BlueSnakelet]

The topic has been silent for almost 24 hours, and we have a little more than 24 hours left on the clock. I don't know how to spark a discussion, so I'll just bring up potential votes again:

I'm willing to vote BBT, Tapioca and Looker.
Bella is willing to vote Tapioca.
Spartan is willing to vote BBT, Tapioca and Looker.
BBT is willing to vote Tapioca and Looker.
Tapioca is willing to vote Spartan and BBT.
Looker is willing to vote BBT.

Again, if you got anything to correct me about this, please do.

BBT (4): Snake, Spartan, Tapioca, Looker.
Tapioca (4): Snake, Bella, Spartan, BBT.
Looker (3): Snake, Spartan, BBT.
Spartan (1): Tapioca.

[BlueSnakelet]

I'll be around at the deadline. I'll hammer any of the three who's in E-1.

[BlueSnakelet]

@Looker, how do you feel about a Tapioca elimination?

[BlueSnakelet]

@Tapioca, I don't think BBT is getting eliminated Today. How about changing that vote to Looker?

[BlueSnakelet]

Tapioca is currently in E-1. I can hammer at any point before the deadline.

Should I hammer now, or should I wait until we hear about Tapioca and (hopefully) Bella?

[BlueSnakelet]

VOTE: Tapioca

[BlueSnakelet]