Newbie 2107 | Random Music | Postgame

[Brickwalll]

Hello everyone!

Looking forward to the game. My first one online in over 10 years and played a couple IRL with some friends a handful of years ago.

To get the ball rolling, VOTE: VOTE: biancospino as your predecessor made us wait to get the game started for so long. Welcome by the way!

[Brickwalll]

So, now that the ball is firmly rolling, some initial observations after a first read through.

Baron voting himself whether to test the voting function or not seems a bit off. Not saying anything conclusive from it but just a note. I also feel Baron's posts are lacking on content to some degree. Offered nothing of value and just fluff posting.

Bianco making a lot of alignment calls early in which is interesting. Don't necessarily agree with the alignments either, a bit too soon to make any calls.

Redados would appear to be pushing the game forward which gives me town vibes for now. Actively asking players to participate and get involved.

HyruleHitman is null for me presently. I like his post 45 where he references Redados and thread control. Don't necessarily agree with that particular argument in this case but feel like his intent is good for now. Can't say I loved the "break a few eggs to make an omelette" comment. Will comment on this one specifically.

Elmo following the thread but yet to post is interesting. Nothing much to comment on otherwise.

**Question: you all seem like experts quoting posts, what is the best way to use the quote function/multi-quote in a post, please?

[Brickwalll]

That means that if town can get a good idea of each person sooner, they can narrow down the outliers, so it would be in the best interest of each townie to talk as much as possible. However, if scum comes to the same conclusion, they will emulate this behaviour, and it may be seen as scummy, which could lead the townies to try to be less forward.

I'm not sure that follows. If a behaviour is clearly advantageous to town, then town should engage in it even if it is frequently faked by scum. In fact I'd argue that it being faked should benefit the town, which in the specific case is likely since a talkative scum may possibly incur in some manner of lapsus.

I have refrained from referring to myself as town thus far, as instantly labelling myself as such when there is little reason to suspect otherwise is incredibly suspicious, but I did find such a label on myself necessary in order to explain my line of thinking.

Again, I don't see

why

it is so. If the argument flows, then it ought to flow regardless of the point of view of the arguer; which I'm not sure it does here, even if I don't disagree on the conclusion

This is the ideal outcome for Scum, a "house divided against itself" if you will.

Right now we're chatty, I'm obviously very chatty, and you all seem so as well, so of course scum will try to be

. But as the game goes on, things I've said will be brought into question. Trust is a rare commodity. Especially if Scum is able to make us work against one another. If any doubt can be cast on an individual's motives, it can snowball to accusations. Overall, Scum is going to imitate Town behaviour. That's the name of the game.

If we talk, they'll talk. If we're silent, they're silent.

So, there's really little distinction when it comes to who is Scum and who isn't, even if a more talkative environment is what benefits the Town.

I felt this whole paragraph to be not of much value. It is quite straight forward what you say with a lot of assumptions in between. You also managed a little self-promotion with '

i.m obviously very chatty

. This, along with your omelette breaking comment, is starting to raise some flags imo.

[Brickwalll]

In general, I’m not sure how to feel about talking a lot in the first day. On one hand, it shows that the player is into the game, which is good no matter their alignment, and willing to express how they’re feeling, which tends to be good for the town. However, I feel like there are so many reasons to talk if you’re against the town. Maybe you want to seem like you are willing to express how you feel, without it actually having any weight. Maybe you want to shift attention to others. Both of those would be pretty low risk, potentially high reward for someone against the town. So at least in the first 100 hours or so of this game, I don’t think there’s much value in reading into people’s comments, presence or lack thereof

Hmm. I disagree with some of this. Town is town, so they have nothing to hide. Because they have nothing to hide, they can share their thoughts with very little risk.

Scum has something to hide; they know everyone's alignment. They have to tiptoe around not giving anything away. Later in the game, when peoples' roles have been flipped, going back to read their thoughts from day one is really valuable.

I totally get what you said about having things to hide. I just feel like ‘trip-ups’ for scum will happen when their logic has a flaw compared with what town would think in that scenario (ie a perspective error) and therefore would be linked to events.

Right now events are so insignificant that ‘trip-ups’ could be perceived from either side, which is a danger. But I suppose even that is better than randomly guessing.

@Baron, what did you mean when you said "I totally get what you said about having things to hide"? Why do you totally it?

[Brickwalll]

Elmo following the thread but yet to post is interesting. Nothing much to comment on otherwise.

If you had the weekend I had. You would be recovering also. I'll have a look tomorrow or something soon.

I think we should put the game on hold and listen to Elmo's weekend, sounds like a story I definitely want to hear I hope you have recovered and the head isn't too sore anymore! Looking forward to seeing your thoughts.

[Brickwalll]

I felt this whole paragraph to be not of much value. It is quite straight forward what you say with a lot of assumptions in between. You also managed a little self-promotion with '

i.m obviously very chatty

. This, along with your omelette breaking comment, is starting to raise some flags imo.

Ouch. But, you do know how to make an omelette, right? You do need to break eggs. As for how that analogy relates to this game, well, that's obvious. Not everyone here is going to make it out of this with their heads resting firmly on their shoulders as they do now. Either the Mafia gets you or you're voted off, either way, a big component of this game is who gets the axe. Also, I don't really care if you think my paragraph is of any value, as this would depend entirely upon your standards of what constitutes as valuable. Since you are a stranger on the internet to me, I have no idea (yet) of what you hold as valuable or invaluable. For clarity's sake, where did you find some of my assumptions? I might be able to clear up some of the confusion I've created. As for my comment about myself being chatty, do you find it false? Redados was chatty, and you took the time to respond to several posts in order to catch up, and are chatty as well. I was really just stating the obvious. Besides, what kind of egotistical idiot would I have to be in order to actually believe that saying the equivalent of, "GUYS I'M SUPER INNOCENT AND NOT SCUM" would help garner any trust or alleviate any legitimate accusations? The answer is just a slightly more moronic version of myself as I am right now. Lastly, I'd like to state that I appreciate your input, as keeping each other in check by questioning our statements is a key component of all of this. I'm glad you highlighted where any misconceptions lay within my posts, and poked a few holes in it.

I do, and a very tasty omelette at that (although burnt one on Saturday for my girlfriend which didn't go down so well).

In the context of this game, your post, in my opinion lacked value. That being said it is early into the game and there is still time for value to develop, merely an observation for now and not one I will be pursuing to the nth degree. But from a care perspective, I do think you should care a little as townie's want to add value and push the game forward.

As for your comment about being you chatty - no, I find it very much true. I just find it odd that you felt the need to express it directly and slip it into the convo.We can all see you are a chatty person, why the feel need to emphasise it though?

On the assumptions, I apologise I did bold the specific parts but forgot to mention. I think (and recalling from memory rather than going back to the post) you stated if town are talking scum will be talking, or something along those lines. Essentially my point was I don't necessarily agree. Just because town are doing something doesn't automatically guarentee that scum will be doing it too. So not a negative point any regards, more we can't assume that scum are doing xyz.

[Brickwalll]

HH is limbait

Agree. I read him as leaning town for now. Definitely think his posts were a bit fluffy and contentless in the beginning but it was conversational and got the ball rolling.

I like the pressure being applied to Spartan, think he needs to make some contribution.

For me, Baron still sits uneasy. In both Post 83 and Post 91 I feel like Baron is talking game theory rather than actively hunting. Potentially a little slow to warm up to the game. In respect of Post 81:

As for this, I feel I’ve just been a bit unclear. I totally get the fact [that town can freely speak without having to hide anything] as a concept. I’m not saying [I know what it feels like to be hiding something because I’m scum, and hiding it, actually]

I definitely have you down for the latter.

Redodos is giving me town vibes.

Chazary, bianco, Elmo reading null for me.

[Brickwalll]

VOTE: Baron

[Brickwalll]

@RH, just to confirm I think Spartan has 3 votes and not 4 and Baron has 2 and not 1? Otherwise Spartan is then 1 away from the hammer is he not?

[Brickwalll]

Therefore, although a more active role in the discussion is riskier, I've come to the decision that it will be far more efficient for me and my fellow townsmen. I have refrained from referring to myself as town thus far, as instantly labelling myself as such when there is little reason to suspect otherwise is incredibly suspicious, but I did find such a label on myself necessary in order to explain my line of thinking.

This feels like a strange explanation for a "line of thinking" that seems both very obvious yet also very redundant. You keep saying certain behavior is town-like but also scummy in a single sentence.

Overall, I read this more like a defense for why you weren't so active at first and then suddenly became more chatty when you realized you're being read as scum. I do agree it's hard to say a lot at first when there's not much to comment on, but that's changed now. I'd be interested to see a reads list or just anything that helps us really.

Speaking of read lists, what are your current reads @chazary?

Have you seen any particular gameplay from anyone that has stood out as odd to you?

[Brickwalll]

I’d also love to know from your experience how that plays out. For example, have you often played games where the very quietest people at the start end up being scum? Or is it more often the loudest at the start? What about the most vs least offensive players?

Statistically, in completed games, more often than not I don’t make it to the end of the game alive. The most important thing to do if I am not alive is to leave behind a body of interactions that helps those alive solve the puzzle. Quiet people always helped scum, even if they were town. It’s very bad for the town that we are not talking very much.

Same for offensive vs defensive. People active and scum hunting leave behind a more understandable body of interactions to judge after they flip. It helps the town. It’s harder for scum to scum hunt.

That's a very good point; I never considered how difficult it would be for scum to fake scum hunt. Since they know who scum really is, they'll have to create a plausible narrative against people they know are innocent, which is especially difficult if said people are actively trying to help town. And if most people they are openly suspicious towards wind up voted out, they start looking rather suspect themselves. Interesting

HH, having read Reds post, do you think you have left meaningful interactions which will help town should you be eliminated or NK'd?

Happy to hear your thoughts on players in general, or what do you think of Bianco, Baron is reading them as townie? (Post 114)

[Brickwalll]

Hellhound1 replaces Spartan117. Please welcome them!

Welcome, Hellhound!

[Brickwalll]

Therefore, although a more active role in the discussion is riskier, I've come to the decision that it will be far more efficient for me and my fellow townsmen. I have refrained from referring to myself as town thus far, as instantly labelling myself as such when there is little reason to suspect otherwise is incredibly suspicious, but I did find such a label on myself necessary in order to explain my line of thinking.

This feels like a strange explanation for a "line of thinking" that seems both very obvious yet also very redundant. You keep saying certain behavior is town-like but also scummy in a single sentence.

Overall, I read this more like a defense for why you weren't so active at first and then suddenly became more chatty when you realized you're being read as scum. I do agree it's hard to say a lot at first when there's not much to comment on, but that's changed now. I'd be interested to see a reads list or just anything that helps us really.

Speaking of read lists, what are your current reads @chazary?

Have you seen any particular gameplay from anyone that has stood out as odd to you?

@Chazary, care to provide the reads?

[Brickwalll]

Sorry, please ignore the above. Missed your post at the top of page 6.

[Brickwalll]

I do find it funny that in Post 70 CCGeek says this about Chazary:

Spartan and chazary attempting a wagon after the initial d1 discussion is fair. BUT, I'm not sure how to read into it, however. Or if it is worth reading into.

but then follows that up with:

You’re right about my vote not being super helpful for town. But I also don’t want to risk causing a bandwagon by voting someone else. And I could always unvote but now that it’s tuesday I want to see what Elmo’s contribution is first.

chazary... care to explain what you mean? this is literally d1. wagoning is what is going to net us info. your post screams anti-town. But yes, I'm not sure if this single statement is enough to make me SR you.

CCGeek chases Chazary into hiding for bandwagoning but then lambastes them for being conservative with their vote only a short time later. CCGeek goes from saying that the post is super anti-town to if this isn't enough for a SR. The hyperbole of "screams anti-town" stands out to me along with the sudden and quite drastic shift from most scum thing to not enough to be scum in the space of two sentences.

[Brickwalll]

Another interesting point on CCGeeks post to me is that in the same post 154 as mentioned above which Chazary screamed anti town he says that he is torn on HyruleHitman.

But 6 posts later he is now saying this about Chazary:

BUT tbh chazary has some interesting posts, you cannot deny, esp w poking holes in HH's posts, and early reads that I agree w. He's kind of nullish otherwise, but I don't think putting pressure on chazary is the proper play here.

Within the same paragraph his previous "torn" stance towards HyruleHitman has also taken a drastic turn and is now

"if it's a HH wagon we're building, I'll gladly join in. Information is our key priority rn, and near-elim pressure might be what we need to get a grasp on HH."

The only noticeable thing that happened in this period was a slight bit of pressure exerted by Redados stating that CCGeek's Post 154 was hedging and it detracted from the post.

To me it just seems like CCGeek felt attacked or pressured by Redados due to his Post 154 and potentially just swayed to the popular opinion in the moment in order to divert the attention from him that Redados was beginning to exert.

[Brickwalll]

Sure, I’ll keep them E3

VOTE: Elmo

I’m not sure what you’re trying to do here.

I think Red's just trying to help get conversation flowing by urging people to vote. You for instance haven't casted a vote since Spartan, which was instantly unvoted, and before that it was yourself. Both of those hindered you more than they helped town, so I think Red is trying to incite the latter.

I too read it as a friendly nudge in the right direction.

[Brickwalll]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: CCGeek

[Brickwalll]

And there does not appear to ever have been a change of mind on the subject. So, @CCGeek, for clarity, are you voting for Hyrule just to put pressure on or do you actually think that he's the most valid candidate for today's lim (which, btw, I wouldn't necessarily disagree on, as evidenced by the fact i still haven't retracted my finger)?

Yeah, you are right. After posting my "revolutionary" breakthrough on CCGeek I read his posts in isolation and realised my argument was flawed. However, the post was out there so rather than retract I thought I would leave him to defend it. The argument might be flawed but he could still be scum and buckle under the pressure. Not to be, thought it was a sound response.

As I have said before, we are LOW on information, we have 2 players who have barely interacted with us, with pressure on them.

What do you think about Redados, if you read his posts in isolation does it strike like meaningful content is being contributed in the scum hunt, or does it look short posts and some fluff posts in between?

VOTE: Redados

[Brickwalll]

Other thoughts for the posts:

On the HH v hh marathon, I think potential tunnelling from Hellhound on Hyrule. Not ruling out Hyrule by any means and certainly keeping all avenues open but I am leaning more towards noob!town (I think I am using that correctly?) on him. Not saying that Hellhounds tunnelling is necessarily scummy either. Could be aggressive townie, as so eloquently put by Hyrule funny enough.

I'm starting to think Elmo should invest in a safe word for their next bdsm weekend.

On this post, I don't think its appropriate to make jokes about ones personal life. Elmo could be tied up at work for all you know!

Speaking of Elmo, starting to get concerned by his absence (seriously, hope they are okay) but also by the slots absence - halfway through D1 now.

Lastly:

Can’t do long replies right now, but my reads are still basically the same as what I last said, with a bit more subtlety. I may do a scum-o-metre when I get time.

Looking forward to seeing the scum-o-metre. There has been a lot of discussion above. I am interested to see some of your thoughts on it, Baron.

[Brickwalll]

Hey all, just got back home. Catching up now, haven't read through any of it yet but appears like there has been a lot of discussion!

[Brickwalll]

good vote I like it

Haha not quite the response I was expecting, but combined with this

I was just being lazy and got called out for it, rightfully so

I am happy that my vote achieved its purpose. Leaving it there for now but will update it once I have caught up fully, should I think it needs to be moved.


@Baron - genuinely enjoyed the Baron-o-meter and appreciate the effort that went into it. My overall thoughts on this post in the context of the game that it is is a lot of content and effort. For scum to go through that much effort and to put that much content out there would be risky and in my eyes an overly elaborate attempt at deception.

I would also be interested to see which posts in particular for CCG stand out for you, I can relate to your thoughts but want to see the specifics.


@bianco - you have now taught me two new words, thank you (anglophone & punctilious).

Anti-town does not equal scum, especially when he just hasn’t done anything at all

I agree, I would not eliminate Elmo today, at least yet. Say, @redados, since you're both SE, so I presume you've played a decent amount of games on the site, do you happen to have past experiences playing with Elmo? If yes, would you say their usual playstyle is generally lurky?

I am in alignment with this. Obviously disappointing we have had an empty slot for the duration of the game, but wouldn't be willing to vote Elmo out for that reason.


@hellhound - I like his post 266, gives me town vibes. Apologies on the "aggressive townie" comment, certainly no negativity or harm intended, hope it wasn't perceived that way. I just thought it was an adequate description in the moment.

As for CCG, I am interested in your thoughts on him. I know my previous argument was flawed against him, but his posts (to me at least) come across as erratic. Can't put my finger on whether he is a disinterested townie or a lurking scum.

This is up to Post 292. Reading on from there now.

[Brickwalll]

and I'm not voting him because I think he's scum, but because I can't case anyone else and I think he's our easiest path to voting someone out today.

Do you have no other suspicions? Seems counter-intuitive that you are willing to vote out someone you don't think is scum. Why not roll the dice on someone else and potentially lim scum today?

[Brickwalll]

@Redados, would you consider a lim on CCGeek?

[Brickwalll]

Amped up is the wrong word. Frazzled? Stressed.

Cracking from being under the pressure of scum? We have 3 days left, why are you so stressed?

I feel pretty content, got some conversation going now. Missing 1 slot which isn’t ideal, but not detrimental. Think there is enough content out there to put some decent cases together and make an informed decision, not just lim someone for the sake of it.

Your ‘lazy’ posting and lack of analytical posts, combined with your willingness to lim HH whilst stating you don’t think he is scum. And, the stressed nature of your posts since getting some heat on you, is making me a little excited as I think we might have found our first mafiaso.

Thoughts?

[Brickwalll]

I am super innocent and not scum.

And this post never sat easy with me. I think in the context of that discussion (please go read the lead up convo about making omelette’s) you found a way to slip in this little sarcastic ‘joke’. Once you won as scum, you were going to come back and say “I told you so”.

[Brickwalll]

Not quite sure what point you are making, use your own words.

[Brickwalll]

I’ve asked 2 questions which you haven’t answered:

Why are you so stressed?

What are your thoughts on post 310, particularly the last paragraph?

[Brickwalll]

@bianco, thoughts on Redados. You seem to have no comments on the exchange?

[Brickwalll]

I’m satisfied for now in respect of Red but certainly not closing my case going into D2.

For the purpose of moving us forward I am for all intents and purposes voting for CCGeek, putting him at E-1.

Just not sure if I should move my vote now or wait until we know if we have a hammer?

[Brickwalll]

But for Alianna stating a replacement is being sought, I would have put CCG at E-1.

Still 3 days and 4 hours until dusk is upon us. Let’s give the replacement a day or two.

[Brickwalll]

I still don't particularly understand why you chose to vote a null player over somebody who you thought could be scum either. Like, if you thought HH was scum then vote him and start applying pressure there? Instead of a random null slot that is already gaining attention. You know?

Hahaha this made me laugh. I cannot wait until you get to post 287.

[Brickwalll]

I’m down to hammer. Just incase anyone wasn’t already clear on that. We’ve got time so I’ll wait but at least want a claim from CC.

[Brickwalll]

When I wake up I’ll be hammering +/- 10 hours. Don’t think HHs replacement will be able to squeeze a read into 12 hours, and not one that is going to sway me at this late hour.

Going into end of D1 I have CC, red, chazary and bianco to varying degreee of scum. Less so bianco and more to be looked into going into D2 for them.

Baron, HH, hellhound and toffee leaning town to varying degrees.

[Brickwalll]

Welcome cactus!

[Brickwalll]

Just to confirm, I would prefer a Redados lim over a CC lim, but if we can’t get Red over the line I will settle with CC.

Are there any more takers for a Red lim?

@Toffee, unfortunately don’t have time rn to summarise my argument on Red but it’s from roughly page 13/14 onwards.

I will expand my reads into D2.

[Brickwalll]

Just to confirm, I would prefer a Redados lim over a CC lim, but if we can’t get Red over the line I will settle with CC.

Are there any more takers for a Red lim?

@Toffee, unfortunately don’t have time rn to summarise my argument on Red but it’s from roughly page 13/14 onwards.

I will expand my reads into D2.

But in short, Red has coasted the game. A lot of posts but not much content. His response to my answers are still not answered and he thinks “I’m town” is a sufficient response. He also openly admits in post 287 that he will vote your slot out despite him thinking it isn’t scum and he was unwilling to case anyone else with 3 real world days left until D1 ended. It’s not laziest because he is super active, just comes across as super scummy imo.

CCGeek is flip flopping an uncommitted. I have said before I think he is a disinterested townie or lurking scum. Hard to call as he is so inactive and so intermittent it leans towards scum trying to go under the radar.

That is the short answer to my two top reads. Appreciate its not the best as doing it from my phone in between meetings.

[Brickwalll]

Having read Chazary in isolation, just going to put this here:

VOTE: Chazary

[Brickwalll]

His play started very well, involved and genuine but it is also the beginning of the game. It is easier to get comments in and more that goes unnoticed. Here, his posts are 'long' (by his standards, similar to Red, his posts are contentless and get less as we go) but they are critiquing the early noob play, the theory that Baron and Hyrule were spitting out. Example Post 87. Also, in this post at the very bottom he subtly hints a comment towards Hyrule, namely:

CONCLUSION: I know nothing. Time to wait for y'all to slip up or get voted. Fun.

The more you post the more this comment smells scummy.

Which helped keeping the Hyrule bandwagon rolling, and the pressure kept building.

However, as time progresses his post start getting shorter, less content and he isn't actually adding much value (if any). His posts are also well timed in the sense that he appears active, constantly posting but fluff. Example:

Well, there the third vote is the farthest away from both the starting, and the hammering vote (which is fifth). Furthermore, at that moment voting for Spartan seemed to be entirely not alignment indicative.

Not sure if I agree with this or maybe just don’t understand. This implies that the third vote is a neutral spot as if it’s like a spectrum of suspiciousness?

What do you think about Redados, if you read his posts in isolation does it strike like meaningful content is being contributed in the scum hunt, or does it look short posts and some fluff posts in between?

VOTE: Redados

I agree with this. I’d like to see some real analysis from Red at this point. The most we got was in the beginning with the game theory talk, and while you were helpful back then I think youve been laying low lately.

This one is my fave, telling Red he would love to see some analysis although he hasn't provided any analysis of his own.

I always be starting pages

You see, lots of fluff. And there are a lot more. Go look.

I can get on this bandwagon today. Whilst Red is still high up on my list, I think we can get back to that on D2. Chazary has done less than Red in my opinion and contributed less. He's too involved in that he is posting enough to look present, but his posts really aren't adding value.

Also, conveniently Chazary can't claim between now and deadline - I think we go for it. If he was a PR he would have alluded to it to some degree and probs have fought more than "If there’s a lim before I am able to return and it’s me, I’ll see y’all on the flip side."

CCG could be VT, I can see his claim being true and think its a wasted lim for today.

P-Edit: Seen some posts, catching up now.

[Brickwalll]

Ah no, I did what CCG did earlier. My answers are quoted within

"Which helped keeping the Hyrule bandwagon rolling, and the pressure kept building.

However, as time progresses his post start getting shorter, less content and he isn't actually adding much value (if any). His posts are also well timed in the sense that he appears active, constantly posting but fluff. Example:"

"This one is my fave, telling Red he would love to see some analysis although he hasn't provided any analysis of his own."

Are my sentences. Apologies, I butchered that.

[Brickwalll]

Also, conveniently Chazary can't claim between now and deadline - I think we go for it. If he was a PR he would have alluded to it to some degree and probs have fought more than "If there’s a lim before I am able to return and it’s me, I’ll see y’all on the flip side."

I can't argue with a lot of the points made against me, but this doesn't make much sense. Why would I as scum want to "conveniently" not roleclaim rather than just lie and claim town. That being said, I am town

More to dissuade a wagon from forming on you in the first place on the basis you wouldn't be able to claim as you wouldn't be present.

[Brickwalll]

I can’t exactly tell how long we have left, but don’t think I will be available before the end of the day from now. Sticking my vote with CCG, although I am feeling less like they are scum than before

Baron noooooo.... Even you think CCG might not be scum.

[Brickwalll]

5 hours by the way, plus a couple of minutes.

[Brickwalll]

Unofficial Vote Count:

CCGeek (E-1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart, biancospino, Hellhound, chazary
catcus (1) - chazary
Hellhound1 (1) - CCGeek
Redados (1) - cactus
Chazary (3) - BlueBloodedToffee, Brickwalll, Redados

[Brickwalll]

Updated and now Unofficial Vote Count:

CCGeek (E-1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart, biancospino, Hellhound, chazary
Hellhound1 (1) - CCGeek
Redados (1) - cactus
Chazary (3) - BlueBloodedToffee, Brickwalll, Redados

[Brickwalll]

CCG should be the lim. BBT is leading town to no-lim or a mis-lim. I think chazary is likely a PR based on their response to the pressure (saying town but not saying VT/PR unless ive missed something), and they absolutely should claim their role, but CCG reeks of scum.

Absolutely nothing that Chazary has done says PR. Genuinely interested to know how you got that opinion.

As you say CCG reeks of scum, if he flips town then what?

[Brickwalll]

Hellhound has never once analysed or critiqued chazary. He has actually only typed his name out on 6 occassions, about 3 of those were for his unofficial vote count. Chazary and hellhound scum pairing? I like Bianco's post above critueqing the "assuming we make it"

[Brickwalll]

Currently only CCG voting for Hellhound.

If BBT, Bianco and Brick move to Hellhound, then when Redados wakes up he can drop the hammer?

[Brickwalll]

BBT, i think Bianco is empahsising the use of "we" - thus assuming we make it. Who is we? Surely a townie would say assuming I make it?

[Brickwalll]

Or CCG can move to Chazary and make it E-1.

Chazary is right there.

Yup, or this. Assuming CCG returns.

[Brickwalll]

Plenty of townies use 'we' as a collective for the town.

I can see what you're getting at, I'm just not sure that's what it is.

That is exactly what I was getting at, perhaps I am reading too much into it then.

[Brickwalll]

Hellhound has never once analysed or critiqued chazary. He has actually only typed his name out on 6 occassions, about 3 of those were for his unofficial vote count. Chazary and hellhound scum pairing? I like Bianco's post above critueqing the "assuming we make it"

He has, in all fairness, been quite null to me.

Of course he has been null, you haven't even so much as sent a question in his direction. How were you meant to form an opinion if you didn't even engage or probe them?

[Brickwalll]

Agreed. It it with a heavy heart then. Lets get on with this.

VOTE: CCGeek

[Brickwalll]

Town - hellhound, brickwall, biancospino, baron
Null - Hyrule/Cactus, BlueBloodedToffee
Scum - Chazary

VOTE: Chazary

Go town!

Contrary to day 1, I am in agreement with Red on this reads list. I also find the cactus NK super bizarre. That slot had a lot of heat which for me would think it was one to keep in. That could potentially indicate an inexperienced player is potentially scum? That does narrow down to four newbies left in the game, three of which fall on my town reads.

I still think Chazary is a strong contender. Not willing to put him at E-1 just yet. Still have plenty of time.

Perhaps a bit far fetched but:

Second time ever playing a forum mafia game so: what is v/la?

:think:

I skimmed over the posts so far and

no comments on the Elmo BW, except the fact that he will be on T/LA till tomorrow (post #5)

.
However, HH definitely started becoming chattier. Some of his arguments do have merit, yes. But I don't have the time in hand rn to poke holes in his posts, will probably do that once I'm back in the evening.
Brickwall and bianco feel neutrally townish atm, and we have almost no fruitful interaction with Elmo to get a grasp on his behaviour/alignment.
Spartan and chazary attempting a wagon after the initial d1 discussion is fair. BUT, I'm not sure how to read into it, however. Or if it is worth reading into.

Thanks for the reminder about Elmo's V/LA. I also did not see that.

However, how was I attempting a wagon? As far as I know I was the first to vote for Elmo.

CC's curiosity with V/LA so early on strikes me as odd. It is not something I would even consider at the start of the game. I didn't in this game and it was missed by a couple of others as well. CC also points out this is his second forum game, not his first. So why did he not ask about it in his first forum game? I will speculate and say because he was town and he didn't have a scum partner who was v/la. So, could that indicate the Elmo slot was his partner, which he lightly defended in post 70 by trying to slow down the BW forming on his partner?

I also find BlueBloodToffee's vote in Post 393 on CCGeek so sudden and against the grain of his previous posts:

VOTE: CCGeek

E-1

Lastly, this subtle encouragement from BlueBloodToffee to get CCG to get his vote on Chazary. It could be innocent, but could be a nudge in the right direction.

Or CCG can move to Chazary and make it E-1.

Chazary is right there.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[Brickwalll]

Post 391 is one of the only reasons BBT is null for me and not scum. The whole counterwagon off of CCGeek looks awful, especially as a reversal.

At what pace were you catching up, BBT?

Why Post 391? I don't see how that impacts your read on BBT?

[Brickwalll]

Yeah, makes sense Post 393. I must be honest it is a bit strange but his double vote for Chazary also confuses me a little about BBT. I do currently the CCG vote as cover play knowing the wagon was already forming and the likelihood of a hammer dropping before a claim was slim (giving him ample opportunity to get off the wagon but look townie).

I don't necessarily agree with E-1 right now. What is the benefit for town. Even if we are right and Chazary is scum, why the need to rush? If we take D2 the full 7 real life days we as townie are giving ourself a better opportunity to win. We are in such a good position, why rush. Even noob town can drop hammers. Not just scum.

[Brickwalll]

Brickwall, does 88 not show that I/CCGeek cannot be scum together? Surely he just posts that in the scum PT???

As Red has said, scum dying Day One is a massive blow to their chances of winning. I do understand however that it looks like I tried to produce a counter-wagon to CCGeek and for that I don't really have a counter argument. All I can say is that I had absolutely no need to put CCGeek to E-1 when I did.

Not quite sure what part of Post 88 you are referring to. It is a long post, think you need to be a little more specific to what you mean there.

To be honest, I didn't know scum had a private chat? Can they use it during the day?

[Brickwalll]

D2 is unchartered territory for me. I may be wrong in my logic and if so I apologise in advance. I just think we better off using the time we need than rush it.

[Brickwalll]

There is no 'proof' in that post.

What I am saying is that if I were scum with CCGeek, he simply could have posted in the scum thread about Elmo being V/LA and what it meant etc. There would be no need to post it in the game thread.

Conversation starter. Easy way to look active without risking attention on you.

[Brickwalll]

Quite frankly I don't think post 88 gives you any credence. If anything, you vaguely pointing me in the direction of post 88 as your defence is somewhat concerning.

[Brickwalll]

You're right.

Part of the reason I thought you could be scum was because it felt like you were intentionally playing scummy to fall under the 'too scummy to be scum' bracket.

But I feel like I have been so very obviously town that it really shouldn't even be a question.

How do you read me right now Mr Toffee?

This is the second time you’ve asked someone this question. Why do you need to know how you are being read? For me it feels wholly irrelevant to ask this question from a town perspective.

[Brickwalll]

I’m back and starting to read through the game for the other scum, I’m looking at BBT, Redados and Biancos first

Why Bianco? They were on the CC wagon, pretty much remain unwavered at the end when pressure was being applied to switch the vote to Chazary.

[Brickwalll]

Too early to form solid reads but I'll take a shot anyway:
Hyrule: Every post is some form of filler, even after Redados tries to induce discussion. Neutral, slightly scummy.
Redados: Tries to make thread control early d1 and ends up with 2 votes on him. Kind of a wonk display, but also makes a scumhunting play, so d1 reads: Town
biancospino: Puts in an RVS vote and makes a general observation. Not necessarily scummy, but not really towny either.
Baron: Wants (?) to discuss but doesn't post. Kind of wack, slightly scummy, again.
Brickwalll: I sure hope he doesn't start lurking often after his highly energetic introductory post. Else, later on in the game, we'd literally be...

talking to a brick wall.

For me this reads list speaks volumes, not so much for what is written on it but more from the perspective of who’s not included in it.

I firmly believe those stated on this list are all town. That leaves Hellhound, BBT and Chazary. I have quite a strong town read on Hellhound currently. Thus narrowing it down to BBT and Chazary. Both who are somewhat scum read in my opinion.

I did have BBT down as town leaning in D1. However, reading both CCG’s posts and BBTs isolation swayed that. His vote in CCG seemed convenient at the time to distance himself and really no explanation was provided for that vote.

Right now I would be comfortable with either a BBT or Chazary elimination, although I think I would prefer to start with Chazary and then follow it up with BBT. Thoughts?

[Brickwalll]

I think I solved the game but I need to think about it.

I would still be keen to hear it.

[Brickwalll]

I am also away until 27 December with limited access. Will definitely be reading and posting but just might be slightly different as won’t have my late evening sessions to whip my laptop out and post :’(

@RH perhaps just testing the waters here early but because of it being Christmas and I suspect a lot of people being away with their families, any chance we can add an extra day or two if we need them to compensate for the numerous V/LA’s?

[Brickwalll]

@BBT - I was applying pressure to your slot. Trying to put a case together and get you to answer some questions. Your slot was relatively quiet for D1 so wanted to apply some pressure to your slot. Happy to go more in-depth once I am on the laptop.

@Bianco - I know the question wasn’t directed at me but I think I am town jokes. I do think Hellhound personally. I am not a PR but was I the cop I reckon I would have investigated Chazary or Redados last night.

Waiting for Chazary before putting my vote elsewhere. Want to hear from them.

[Brickwalll]

”Sorry, I do think Hellhound is town personally.” Is how it should have rep.

Tough doing this on a phone.

[Brickwalll]

UNVOTE:

[Brickwalll]

Alright, well I have said what I needed to say.

I'm reasonably happy to be the lim today as long as town goes through with Red on D3.

This post also reads towny to me. Not onboard with the idea though but townie vibes nonetheless.

I would be content voting out Red ahead of BBT. But really I am not making any decision until Chazary has posted.

I am also wanting to hear more from Baron. Appreciate this might be new but having seen a whole days worth of play as guidance, I was hoping for a bit more analytical play. Potentially a reads list and/or a case on your top suspects please?

[Brickwalll]

@BBT - I was applying pressure to your slot. Trying to put a case together and get you to answer some questions. Your slot was relatively quiet for D1 so wanted to apply some pressure to your slot. Happy to go more in-depth once I am on the laptop.

@Bianco - I know the question wasn’t directed at me but I think I am town jokes. I do think Hellhound personally. I am not a PR but was I the cop I reckon I would have investigated Chazary or Redados last night.

Waiting for Chazary before putting my vote elsewhere. Want to hear from them.

For anyone else, and for you in the future, don’t claim “not a PR” unless under hammer. It helps scum narrow down who is a PR.

Yeah I’m hindsight shouldn’t have said it. Thanks for the tip.

[Brickwalll]

VOTE: Chazary

They made it online but failed to post in D2.

[Brickwalll]

He was already scum end of D1 in my eyes and I wanted the lynch. Settled on CC. He hasn’t said anything to refute those allegations so his actions can only add to the already suspicious post.

Also, and perhaps a minor point, as town I was excited we lynched scum D1. So excited I couldn’t wait to post. Slightly strange that as town you wouldn’t even so much as post a single comment despite coming online since D2 started?

[Brickwalll]

Read* not post at the end of paragraph 1 above. Had a few Boxing Day drinks nogal.

[Brickwalll]

It's not explicitly stated in this game's rules post, but using the word "lynch" to describe the day vote is actually banned in the site rules. Please avoid it in future.
Site standard is "eliminate" or "execute."

My apologies. I will certainly use eliminate in future.

[Brickwalll]

VOTE: Chazary

They made it online but failed to post in D2.

Scum would want to vote off an inactive, widely scumread town!Chazary here.

We have enough time in the day left for Chazary to post, or for the process to play out if he doesn’t post. Let’s let that process play out.

Whilst Bianco has done a very good job at probing this post already, I did want to just chip in and say the hypocrisy here is laughable.

Firstly. was I not the one to really start questioning CCG on D1. To the point which I asked would YOU (Redados) be willing to lim CCG and you took no hesitation in that offer to join me on his wagon.

Secondly, I wanted Chaz D1, I stated at the start of D2 that I wanted to lim Chaz BUT there were too many votes on him already (one of which is yours, Red) so I didn’t. Now that he has no votes on him and I followed through with my initial thoughts, you think this is a scum play to vote out an inactive player? You really are quite the comedian Mr Redados. Especially considering I am the only vote on them currently and the restraint I showed at the beginning of the game. Bianco put him at E-1 and I said no, remove the vote we don’t want a quick lim. Really struggling how you are seeing my vote as scum voting out an inactive town player. I need to hear your thought process on this one @Red?

Thirdly, BBT has already question whether it is the best idea to vote someone on D2 based on their inactivity. I feel like I answered this question with a fair and reasonable response, yet you come along and try grow this wedge even further on a settled point.

Fourthly, and maybe another minor point from me, in D1 Red was running around and wagonning everyone and their cousin “to build pressure” (Elmo and HH to name a few), yet placing my vote to get some reaction in D2 (and the only vote on this player) is now considered a scum move?

Anyways, but a few hypocrisy’s to point out. Not going to lie, Red has never sat easy with me and I think his prolonged presence in this game is going to make it difficult. There is a specific post he made in D1 about how he’s got this new game style and is playing differently etc etc. That post just keeps racking my brain. I will pull it up later once on a PC.

I am on my phone now but heading back home today. Thus, I will have my laptop out later this evening and get straight back into it.

[Brickwalll]

Except, I'll still like to know what post you saw that made you think you solved the game, for curiosity's sake

please drop it

I'll do, sorry

Why are we dropping it?

[Brickwalll]

If you're saying that we should not play cangaroo court on the basis of Chaz's inactivity, sure.

But if your saying that merely voting Chaz is now less acceptable that it was before, I would ask you to walk me through the reasoning. Sorry if it's obvious.

P-E: I'm satisfied wrt all my other questions

I’ll walk you through an experience I had as scum:

There was a player on day one playing in a way that made everyone think that he was scum. But by the end of day one, he was really close to being replaced due to inactivity. As scum, I knew that the player was town. I knew that he was widely scumread not because of his alignment, but because of his play style. And that if he was replaced, we would lose the ability to easily eliminate him.

So I pushed for the town to eliminate him and we did eliminate him.

If there’s any chance that chazary could be replaced, I would love to hear from the replacement instead of voting them off hurriedly.

Did you win this game as scum? Or, by pushing for the lim of an inactive on D1 everyone thought you were scum and you eventually got limmed. Thus, you learnt from your mistake and are now pushing for a replacement and not a lim on an inactive player as you have learnt your lesson? I would like a link to this game please.

[Brickwalll]

VOTE: Chazary

They made it online but failed to post in D2.

Scum would want to vote off an inactive, widely scumread town!Chazary here.

We have enough time in the day left for Chazary to post, or for the process to play out if he doesn’t post. Let’s let that process play out.

Whilst Bianco has done a very good job at probing this post already, I did want to just chip in and say the hypocrisy here is laughable.

Firstly. was I not the one to really start questioning CCG on D1. To the point which I asked would YOU (Redados) be willing to lim CCG and you took no hesitation in that offer to join me on his wagon.

Secondly, I wanted Chaz D1, I stated at the start of D2 that I wanted to lim Chaz BUT there were too many votes on him already (one of which is yours, Red) so I didn’t. Now that he has no votes on him and I followed through with my initial thoughts, you think this is a scum play to vote out an inactive player? You really are quite the comedian Mr Redados. Especially considering I am the only vote on them currently and the restraint I showed at the beginning of the game. Bianco put him at E-1 and I said no, remove the vote we don’t want a quick lim. Really struggling how you are seeing my vote as scum voting out an inactive town player. I need to hear your thought process on this one @Red?

Thirdly, BBT has already question whether it is the best idea to vote someone on D2 based on their inactivity. I feel like I answered this question with a fair and reasonable response, yet you come along and try grow this wedge even further on a settled point.

Fourthly, and maybe another minor point from me, in D1 Red was running around and wagonning everyone and their cousin “to build pressure” (Elmo and HH to name a few), yet placing my vote to get some reaction in D2 (and the only vote on this player) is now considered a scum move?

Anyways, but a few hypocrisy’s to point out. Not going to lie, Red has never sat easy with me and I think his prolonged presence in this game is going to make it difficult. There is a specific post he made in D1 about how he’s got this new game style and is playing differently etc etc. That post just keeps racking my brain. I will pull it up later once on a PC.

I am on my phone now but heading back home today. Thus, I will have my laptop out later this evening and get straight back into it.

Thin skin if you react this way any time someone scum reads you.

I don’t scum read you.

So you don’t read me as scum, I didn’t take you as reading me scum. But when I respond to your genuinely bad play you tell me I have thin skin for responding, even though you admittedly didn’t think I was scum?

Again, confusing and would appear you are backtracking. Interesting.

[Brickwalll]

I think a push on someone who is getting replaced is anti-town. I think scum has motivation to make that push. Specifically Brickwall, I don’t scum read you for doing that, based on the rest of your body of work.

He wasn’t being replaced when I voted him. Nor had he even been prodded. You are manipulating the facts to suit your agenda.

[Brickwalll]

I think a push on someone who is getting replaced is anti-town. I think scum has motivation to make that push. Specifically Brickwall, I don’t scum read you for doing that, based on the rest of your body of work.

He wasn’t being replaced when I voted him. Nor had he even been prodded. You are manipulating the facts to suit your agenda.

I would never backseat mod, and this includes the night and holidays, but he hasn’t posted for six days and thirteen hours.

I hope that he comes back!!

Exactly. But you still haven’t explained why my vote should be treated differently to what you were doing to Elmo in D1 when they weren’t posting?

I do agree with Bianco that you deflect a lot of questions.

[Brickwalll]

I’m willing to entertain and support this exercise but if I were to choose right now, there are at least two people I would want to vote out ahead of Baron.

Who are these two you would vote out first?

[Brickwalll]

I think BBT and Bianco make some good points in respect of Baron. I have always kind of seen Baron as a 'noob town' rather than scum leaning, and on that basis have kind of let them run under the radar. I am yet to do a reread (back to work today) but will take a look at them in them again this evening.

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here, @BBT and @Bianco, what makes you think Baron's behaviour is scum like as opposed to disinterested/inexperienced town?

[Brickwalll]

Whilst really trying hard not to kick the can down the road, essentially we are in a position where there are 7 players in the game but in all reality there are only 4 playing.

Hellhound is V/LA until today. They were engaged (and correct) on D1 for CCG. There return and input will be wholly appreciated and I think their fresh perspective on D2 can offer some insights.

Chazary is gone I think. Their replacement (I suspect) will be joining soon. Slightly concerned in respect of this slot and whilst I think we should give the replacement a fair chance to present their thoughts/findings, it is most certainly where I would be comfortable with a lim for now.

Baron is giving me CCG vibes by doing the "I will present a case later" or "I am busy but will be back later" - the proverbial can is once again being kicked. But again, they are active but barely and their input to date has not been forthcoming, or if it has then it can be compared to drawing a blood from a stone. The Baron-o-meter post(s) is what tipped me to think Baron was town, and I am just wondering what happened to that level of enthusiasm and insight?

But yes, this is where the blocker is for me now. I am being careful with the words I choose now as I am still very much participating, but am finding it difficult to move the game forward in the absence of those listed above. Just rambling some thoughts down in a post but just so you know where I stand currently.

[Brickwalll]

Whilst really trying hard not to kick the can down the road, essentially we are in a position where there are 7 players in the game but in all reality there are only 4 playing.

Hellhound is V/LA until today. They were engaged (and correct) on D1 for CCG. There return and input will be wholly appreciated and I think their fresh perspective on D2 can offer some insights.

Chazary is gone I think. Their replacement (I suspect) will be joining soon. Slightly concerned in respect of this slot and whilst I think we should give the replacement a fair chance to present their thoughts/findings, it is most certainly where I would be comfortable with a lim for now.

Baron is giving me CCG vibes by doing the "I will present a case later" or "I am busy but will be back later" - the proverbial can is once again being kicked. But again, they are active but barely and their input to date has not been forthcoming, or if it has then it can be compared to drawing a blood from a stone. The Baron-o-meter post(s) is what tipped me to think Baron was town, and I am just wondering what happened to that level of enthusiasm and insight?

But yes, this is where the blocker is for me now. I am being careful with the words I choose now as I am still very much participating, but am finding it difficult to move the game forward in the absence of those listed above. Just rambling some thoughts down in a post but just so you know where I stand currently.

Is the implication of your post that you want to policy-elim Baron? Or is it that you’re not having fun?

My word. How did you get either of those deductions from my post? Genuinely, please explain.

[Brickwalll]

You asked if the implication is that I want to policy elim Baron when I clearly state for Chazary that "it is most certainly where I would be comfortable with a lim for now". I am starting to think you are being lazy and not reading the full posts.

[Brickwalll]

VOTE: Redados

Their play has been scummy.

If they are town, they have to be the worst town play I have seen. Think we are better off without Red either way.

[Brickwalll]

Red, why am I scum?

Counter wagon from CCG

You mean the same Counter Wagon you were also on? Sorry, what?

[Brickwalll]

You asked if the implication is that I want to policy elim Baron when I clearly state for Chazary that "it is most certainly where I would be comfortable with a lim for now". I am starting to think you are being lazy and not reading the full posts.

Not lazy

I am not accepting these responses. I want a proper response explaining your thought process. Again, I explicitly stated my vote was comfortable on Chazary. How did you read that to be a policy vote on Baron?

Your responses have been poor this game, bordering on lazy. Any accusation you retort with "I am town". Any answer to a question is simply the opposite of the accusation. You are lazy - your response "not lazy".

If you are town, you are being a detriment to us. And on that basis, I maintain you are our best lim today.

Anyways, waiting for a real response to my question. The one you provided is inadequate.

P-Edit: Nope, not disingenous at all. I have very much set it out again above. I don't think your play is very good or helpful.

[Brickwalll]

Red, why am I scum?

Counter wagon from CCG

You mean the same Counter Wagon you were also on? Sorry, what?

1) BBT and I had very different relationships with that wagon and had different D1s
2) I know my role card and I’m not going to scum read myself.

But your logic here then is that scum can't possibly be on the CCG bandwagon? What about CCG's scum partner realising CCG had no hope and got on the wagon to avoid attention on themselves?

Is your theory then that scum is one of those who isn't on the wagon?

[Brickwalll]

Again, you aren't answering the question. How did you think that if I explicitly stated otherwise? You are the one putting words in mouths, so I want you to explain it. But you aren't explaining it?

[Brickwalll]

I will simplify it for you:

Why did you think I wanted to policy lim Baron when I explicitly stated in the same post that I would be comfortable with a Chazary vote?

[Brickwalll]

You spoke negatively about Baron’s activity and compared it to flipped scum.

You wanting to elim Chazary in no way means he’s the only one you’d want to eliminate today (unless I missed where you said that

To be honest this reasoning makes little sense to me. I merely passed a few comments on Baron's play and explained why I initially thought he was town and not scum. I really do not see the implication of that being a policy vote on Baron?

That is a huge stretch and really makes me consider your actions and insights. Why would that paragraph make you think I want to policy lim. It really just doesn't add up at all. The explanation is non-sensical in my opinion.

Speaking of policies and principals, I am heavily set on a Red vote today and won't be swayed from this stance. I think as town we can move forward more clinically in Red's absence.

[Brickwalll]

Yes

[Brickwalll]

E-2, right?

Apologies.

Yes.

[Brickwalll]

Yay! Hellhound has returned. Looking forward to your thoughts and hope you feel better!

[Brickwalll]

I like BBT’s developing read on Baron today.

Because if the slot is scum it's a pretty shitty spot for a replacement to come into.

Plus, you know, it's probably scum.

I agree with the facts here but still disagree with the logic. No matter

I hope Hellhound comes back soon.

The more I read Redados' posts, the more I think they are purely a commentator on the current game. There contributions aren't offering much. They seem like a bystander on the sideline rather than an active participant scum hunting.

Obvs I am keen on a Redados lim today, but trying very not to tunnel on them specifically. Still open to hearing what Hellhound and the others have to offer in terms of their views. But Red's play has flagged up so many questions. I also have a particular theory on what they have been trying to do since the beginning of the game in the event they are nearly limmed, but I will hold onto that theory until closer Reds at E-1.

[Brickwalll]

Another 3 constructive posts from Red.

I perused the game. Your play style is similar. Merely a secondary source though and not conclusive.

[Brickwalll]

Any reason for the vote?

[Brickwalll]

He’s here and present, I want to vote for him

My vote has been parked there for a while in my mind

Didn't give them much of an opportunity to present a case.

[Brickwalll]

What is meant by "spewing" town?

[Brickwalll]

Red is 100% going to claim a PR in my opinion. I would be shocked of any claim to the contrary.

If Red claims PR, then we have two claims and thus scum is wrapped up in the bag. We vote the first out (Red) and follow it up with WS if Red is PR.

If Red claims VT, then why would he allude to being a PR for the duration of the game so unnecessarily. That is very anti-town and just screams scum to me.

[Brickwalll]

Look, Way practically has claimed jk, otherwise I have no idea why he cares if we're under RAR. I'm I wrong here?

Do you mind please ELI5? I think then I will understand why you think this. (newbie here)

I don't doubt the logic, I just don't understand why.

[Brickwalll]

If red claims either tracker or friendly neighbour, there is no contradiction

Although an assumption based on whether WS claim is what you stated above. Again, not saying its wrong but also can't take the WS claim as conclusive just yet.

Also, perhaps WS knows exactly what you said, but wants to lure Red into a trap. Who knows.

[Brickwalll]

@Way, the only way you!jk may know that we're not in C is that you received a message from a Friendly Neighbour. So say so or I don't believe you; unless you say that you're a Doc, in which case I also don't believe you.

@Blue, wait at least a bit for a claim!

I am not being funny, but I genuinely can't imagine a situation where a town friendly neighbour thought Chazary was the best person to reach out to at the end of D1 considering we all thought they were scum?

If the town fn did do this I can't wait to hear the reasoning.

[Brickwalll]

Sorry, let me clarify above as I exaggerated slightly. We didn't all think chazary was scum, but there was certainly suspicion in their direction.

[Brickwalll]

@Brick It's possible I misunderstand things, but basically the only weird thing that may happen in the setup and that may depend on the order things are resolved is roleblocker and jk acting on each other. Every other interaction does not depend on order, so what resolution schemata were we using does not matter

Gotcha! Thank you.

[Brickwalll]

Yeah, 100% agree. Pure hypothetical until its an actual.

A Red claim is going to be even more interesting. Looking forward to it.

[Brickwalll]

I admit I wouldn't call it all facts, but I still think it's plausible. Do you think it's scum casing Town, or just a wayward Townie down a bad rabbit hole?

Can we also talk about this for a second? This question may be in jest, but it is charged, as it assumes that either Blue is scum or Way is town

Do you not think he is talking about BBT? I see it as asking whether Blue is scum or if Blue is a lost townie going down the wrong path?

[Brickwalll]

This may be a bit too simplified, but realistically Red is about to be hammered as we have E-1 and intent.

Which leaves the following scenario (if Red doesn't flip red - couldn't resist saying this):

WS is NK'd. Thus leaving Bianco, Brick, Baron, BBT, Hellhound.

@Red/@WS (and anyone else who wants to answer for that matter) - Out of the above bunch, who do you think is scum?

[Brickwalll]

Yeah, but the point is if if you are NK'd it doesn't matter that your action won't go through. You are dead. And as doctor you can't protect yourself.

[Brickwalll]

Claim Red.

[Brickwalll]

UNVOTE:

[Brickwalll]

Just to confirm, very much still on Redados. Just wanted to take the hammer away from BBT considering the finger is being pointed at him and whilst we dissect what Redados has said.

[Brickwalll]

Just to confirm, we could also be in 1C if Wayward has fake claimed.

[Brickwalll]

I keep saying "Just to confirm" - I will try my utmost to stop this. Apologies

[Brickwalll]

Just to confirm, very much still on Redados. Just wanted to take the hammer away from BBT considering the finger is being pointed at him and whilst we dissect what Redados has said.

You think I’m fake claiming?

Again, putting words in my mouth.

I am not saying you are fake claiming. I merely would like to take some time to reconsider my position. Essentially you have been my biggest scum read (I know right, this has probably come as a shock to you), and whilst you have alluded to a PR throughout the game, you have now come out and claimed cop. So yeah, I thought you would be appreciative that I am taking time to reconsider haha.

[Brickwalll]

@Brick No, the cop has failed, so we cannot be in C1 (if Red is the true cop)

Ah, I see. Makes sense, thanks for taking the time to explain!

[Brickwalll]

Just to confirm, very much still on Redados. Just wanted to take the hammer away from BBT considering the finger is being pointed at him and whilst we dissect what Redados has said.

You think I’m fake claiming?

Again, putting words in my mouth.

I am not saying you are fake claiming. I merely would like to take some time to reconsider my position. Essentially you have been my biggest scum read (I know right, this has probably come as a shock to you), and whilst you have alluded to a PR throughout the game, you have now come out and claimed cop. So yeah, I thought you would be appreciative that I am taking time to reconsider haha.

Maybe this will help with your evaluation:
Being a PR is hard. You have to not only not be day-limmed, but also not be nightkilled. I have been nightkilled for being a strong town voice.

Red, let me be straight up, you know I’ve been somewhat critical of your gameplay this game. And a couple of times you alluded to being a PR (the quote above and another time when Bianco and I were pressing you and you told us to leave it and trust you). Like I said above, not shocked you claimed a PR and to some degree it does help explain your gameplay (for me at least). So yes, currently no CC and I’m very much inclined to believe you. BUT now you have been ousted as cop, I feel like you have 36ish hours to really send home your thoughts and analysis that you’ve been holding back on. We as town are obvs very much on the wrong path so you and WS need to step up and guide us home as you have more info or have been reading the game from a different perspective the entire game.

[Brickwalll]

Sorry, I said 36ish hours above when it’s actually 25.

Here are my thoughts and things that stand out for me this game of the remaining suspects.

CCGeeks interested in BBT slot V/LA is really what is bringing me back around to BBT, again I am yet to read their ISO since the revelation by Red and WS.

The cactus NK still baffles me. I said when it happened it could be a noob play, which for me pointed to Baron. However, I now am thinking that potentially cactus could have been NK’d because scum was on the wagon and by NK’ing someone on the wagon it would have reduced the number of viable suspects? Again, this logic could be super flawed but just my thought process. Whilst Baron was actually third to hop on the wagon, but because of Red and my shenanigans it looks like he was the first vote when in fact people who voted earlier jumped off.

Hellhound has been pretty town leaning after D1 for me and I’m inclined to still believe this.

Thus, the really only leaves Bianco as a third suspect. TBH their play has read town for me this game so of the three, they would be the last I would be willing to lim. But again, I want to read their ISO today. (And I will)

[Brickwalll]

So in order of what elims I would like:

Baron
BBT
Bianco

This is for now and would change on D3 with new info should it come to light. Also, could happily be convinced of BBT first over baron.

[Brickwalll]

VOTE: Baron

[Brickwalll]

That is E-2 if I am not mistaken.

[Brickwalll]

I think BBT is the most likely to have roleblocked me last night if he was noticing my stuff. Who else would have noticed let’s talk through it

Kinda makes sense to be honest. Cactus was voting Redados. Thus, scum NK'd cactus to frame him for an OMGUS NK perhaps? Could be clever scum play which is more up BBTs alley.

BBT did also mention you had soft claimed PR so he was aware of it. Could have NK'd cactus whilst roleblocking you from your PR.

I will hammer BBT. Is it even worth waiting for a claim? He can only claim VT now surely. He would have CC'd otherwise and he obvs isn't going to claim scum.

[Brickwalll]

Red, just to confirm I am around for another 6 or 7 hours. So will only hammer then, ask all the questions you need.

[Brickwalll]

I don't PR hunt as town - I just notice these things.

Secondly, I most certainly don't roleblock someone I suspect to be PR - I kill them.

Reads are as previously stated.

Good luck town.

The lack of an updated reads list or analysis is scummy. Once last download would be a huge help for us, especially day three after the NK if you flip town. Your reluctance to provide it for me indicates you know you are scum and its not worth putting the effort in considering you are on the ropes. Giving one last ditched post would go a long way to helping us think you are towny.

P-Edit: Do you think Hellhound bussed CCG to win over town and disguise himself?

[Brickwalll]

So, now that the ball is firmly rolling, some initial observations after a first read through.

Baron voting himself whether to test the voting function or not seems a bit off. Not saying anything conclusive from it but just a note. I also feel Baron's posts are lacking on content to some degree. Offered nothing of value and just fluff posting.

Bianco making a lot of alignment calls early in which is interesting. Don't necessarily agree with the alignments either, a bit too soon to make any calls.

Redados would appear to be pushing the game forward which gives me town vibes for now. Actively asking players to participate and get involved.

HyruleHitman is null for me presently. I like his post 45 where he references Redados and thread control. Don't necessarily agree with that particular argument in this case but feel like his intent is good for now. Can't say I loved the "break a few eggs to make an omelette" comment. Will comment on this one specifically.

Elmo following the thread but yet to post is interesting. Nothing much to comment on otherwise.

**Question: you all seem like experts quoting posts, what is the best way to use the quote function/multi-quote in a post, please?

Brickwall do you remember why you didn't give a read or comment on CCGeek here?

Yeah, I was quite late to pick up the game in the sense that I said hello, went to bed and woke up and we were already 62 posts deep. So I caught up those first 62 posts and summarised, which is this post. At this point CCG had posted a couple of times, but I remember thinking for the most part it was fluff. His two content posts were post 27 and post 31, which even then I thought were a bit light on content. That was halfway through my catchup so suspect it got clouded out by the 31 posts after that which I would have read.

[Brickwalll]

And then from post 178 I start building my case on CCGeek

[Brickwalll]

so what are your thoughts now Baron? Do you agree that Wayward and Red are town and scum must be amongst you, Baron, Bianco, Hellhound and myself?

If so, who are your top 3 scum picks out of the remaining 4 (obvs you aren't going to say yourself)

[Brickwalll]

Biancospino is unique in that he’s really never pushed on me, which *I* like although maybe I’ve been pocketed

I know what you mean. They are playing a very clean game.

[Brickwalll]

I am happy to lim Baron.

My thinking is that WS is NK’d. Leaving hellhound and Bianco. I would then in all likelihood have to vote Bianco. Can’t get away from Hellhounds D1 play. If he turns out to be scum then it’s a game well played.

I do think Baron’s D3 intro post is quite strange, almost nonchalant and lacking concern. Also, how could he still be certain we were all town when it was established end of D2 that we couldn’t all be town as there was no Counter Claim.

Happy to hammer once WS has given his thoughts.

[Brickwalll]

Sorry Bianco, can’t say I agree that scum Baron would have given up. You saw how CCG fought until the end.

Personally, the only other plausible story is that Hellhound bussed CCG and bought town cred that way.

I won’t lie to you, whilst I was certainly instrumental in getting the attention on CCG (and remember my initial poor case where you spotted the flaw), I was a tad surprised he flipped scum. By the end I wasn’t convinced but knew we needed to get the lim done.

I still think we proceed with Baron and cross the bridge tomorrow if he flips town. I certainly won’t vote immediately as the day begins to avoid a quick lim.

[Brickwalll]

I'm calling it, the scum is in {Hellhound, Brickwall}.
@Way, can I ask you the ranking of players by scumminess in your opinion?

Haha but it’s not me. My D1 case on CCG should speak enough to that.

[Brickwalll]

VOTE: Baron

[Brickwalll]

This is it, the end game. I have a day full of work ahead so won’t be responding to the above not putting my case forward soon. So please wait until I am back before we end this, I’ll obvs do the same for you both.

That being said, I was hoping someone else would post first. A little surprised they’ve earmarked me tbh. I read both your ISOs over the night phase as after Red flipped TC it was obvious WS would be NK’d

I’ll claim now, I am VT.

I’ll read your full post tonight Bianco and respond with my thoughts and who I think it is.

[Brickwalll]

Bianco, one question for you - you were on BBTs wagon whereas Hellhound and I weren’t. What do you say to that?

[Brickwalll]

Hellhound, you were very active D1 and then almost non-existent thereafter, why?

[Brickwalll]

I said I would do it later but I am too invested in this game not to do it now haha.

Bianco, I read your post and brief response. I’m not scum but my defence would be my case on CCG and my absence on the D2 wagon.
Moves scum can be on their team wagon and not on the town wagon, but I think that is very unlikely. These two facts alone should be enough for town cred.

Here are my thoughts. Hellhound has been strong town because of his D1 play. Although his lack of contribution in D2 and D3 now have him as my leading scum read.

Bianco has played a very clean game, always been involved and has for the most part come across as townie. She was on the CCG wagon but also on BBT. If she is scum she’s played a very good game. Her play at the end of D3 also confused me. A little bit of pressure applied to them and they were switching votes left and right. This confuses me as well.

Ultimately, I have no clue it is. If town win I am happy; if we lose I think scum have played a good game considering CCG was limmed D1.

Anyways, right now I intend on voting for HH. Will wait to hear from them first.

[Brickwalll]

Yup, reading ISOs is what changed my mind, for now.

Also on phone just as a caveat making this tough.

Here is my thinking. HH initially read CCG as null (and me for that) along with Elmo. Maybe not much but just a starting point. 151

He then pushes heavily on HH until a point where I think town collectively agreed to move on at which point HH switches to CCG (this huge push on CCG was the initial reason I was so convinced he was town)

However, reading it again in the context of three players left (one being me so exclude me) I am left with you and HH. From 205, HH starts talking about CCG albeit briefly and by this point I had made my case against CCG and CCG was responding. So not unusual for HH to shift from hyrule to CCG, but it is convenient and by this point I think I had a pretty good case. Perhaps the writing was on the wall and HH knew it?

The next time HH even mentions CCG is 266. I actually don’t think this is a great post. I think he included CCG in this post to throw a cat amongst the pigeons so it looks like he is engaging his scum buddy. Essentially he asks for a reads list and that is it.

It’s only in post 298 where HH really locks in on CCG. However, he isn’t attacking CCG but rather critiquing CCGs post on Hyrule. With the benefit of hindsight again it’s like critiquing play, but not holding the shortcomings of CCG against him if that makes sense? A facade or putting up a front of interacting without really making it tough. A hospital pass for a rugby analogy.

The next mention of CCG by HH is 377. What has changed now though is CCG went from 0 votes to 3 votes between HHs last post. The wagon was forming/formed and a lot of heat was going to CCG. HH says he is happy to lim CCG, but is also a little defensive saying he is holding off waiting for CCGs comments. I.e. showing intent without actually committing.

(Just to mention at this point he constantly refers to you as town, comfortably. Why would he be so confident to keep labelling you townie? To the converse, you knowing he has you 100% town could be why you bought him along to the end?)

Again, no other mention of CCG by hellhound (although talking about other players, including you) until post 394 where he tells everyone not to hammer and to give CC a chance to claim “incase they are a PR”. Perhaps a nudge for him to claim a PR or what, but he does say he will hammer in 24 hours failing that. Again, I don’t give town cred for this. 4 votes deep on a wagon and saying you’ll hammer is easy scum play, but also could be townie. So the fact he is now showing willingness with little to no thought or mention of deep reads above on CCG seems strange.

After this post 394, again HH goes on to talk about other players, specifically you and BBT. He isn’t building a case or explaining why he is happy to hammer CCG, he’s just said he’ll do it.

He then is in post 412 sort of retracting on his offer to hammer, saying it will be claim dependant and that he is now torn? He wasn’t torn above when he had intent to hammer was he? He is asking for patience and trying to slow the hammer down. This slow down of the hammer request is super scummy to me. He throws a little bit of shade on his partner, says he’ll hammer and then is asking for patience and subtly trying to stop the wagon imo.

He then votes Redados? What? 439 - so after everything above he now decides to completely switch to Red with no further mention of CCG or why the switch.

447 another weird one - he is now happy to hammer CCG again IF he claims AND it’s disproved? This is a strange thing to say in my opinion. Did he know he was going to claim a PR, was he meant to after a chat in their scum DT? Did CCG change the plan and claim VT as a PR claim would have been too obvious?

449 2 posts later and once again HH confirming he is happy to hammer CCG. This is super weird because he also has post 448 so why did he feel the need to emphasise twice he would hammer CCG? So bizarre man.

No votes for CCG at this point by HH by the way. Never voted for him.

Now, in post 460 is the first time HH has put anything resembling a case and/or confronted CCG properly. By this point HH has offered to hammer him 3 or 4 times remember, but here is the first real call out (very late imo). For me this is where the distancing begins.

First vote he has put on CCG putting him to E1. He also calls cactus his scum buddy. I think this is why he NK’d cactus imo. It’s making more sense the Cactus NK.

From post 460 onwards he is tunnelling in on CCG. I’m reading it as “you are done CCG, I tried to save you above and held off, but you are getting limmed so let me do a last minute attempt at distancing myself”

Post 520 “BBT is leading town to no-lim or a mis-lim” - said with such authority that he knew it would be an mis lim. To say it with such confidence you only know that because you are scum surely?

531 “CCG is clear scum and whoever his buddy is has seen an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon” - yes HH you did see the opportunity to jump on it and you did. Interestingly, this response was actually to a question I posed calling Hellhound and Chazary the scum team. Bianco, please go look at this one specifically.

He then makes one more post about CCG before CCG is limmed.

So he went from nothing really on CCG until post 460 (CCG was far down the lim path at this point) and then all of a sudden the only thing HH can talk about is CCG.

Then obvs he has done nothing D2 or D3, so for this reason I am going HH.

[Brickwalll]

I am happy to lim Baron.

My thinking is that WS is NK’d. Leaving hellhound and Bianco. I would then in all likelihood have to vote Bianco. Can’t get away from Hellhounds D1 play. If he turns out to be scum then it’s a game well played.

Anyways, right now I intend on voting for HH. Will wait to hear from them first.

Question for Brick; you did quite plateally changed your mind during the night. Why?

I think my post above answers this but for the short reason. Essentially HH was only town because of his late push on CCG deep into D1. It left a lasting memory that “Oh wait, HH was pushing CCG he must be town” but over night when I went and read yours and his ISO then the above case presented itself. Whilst I was right with his D1 play pushingcCCG, with the context of limited players left I now see it as opportunistic/distancing one the ship had sailed and not so much “I’m scumhunting” vibes.

[Brickwalll]

I also think you trying to work out scenarios once we had claims is town vibes. You also made a mistake whilst doing it which a scum wouldn’t have made on the basis that they knew which setup we were in.

Unless you of course planned “the mistake” and then corrected it to give that impression. In which case I’m back to my point of well played, you deserve the win.

Ultimately, I don’t know. All I can say Bianco is I am town and very much like to think my play has shown that. I’ll be voting HH although I’ll give him sometime to respond.

[Brickwalll]

Bianco, your post 1108 where you said scum planned for us 3 to be at the end. If HH is scum then he didn’t plan it as he didn’t participate. We as town just kept limming each other?

[Brickwalll]

You refer to my case on CCG as erratic. I would agree. I didn’t know they were scum so whilst I built a case, even I slightly doubted it after his claim (I am too trusting in general haha) so when I dropped the hammer I was content with it because at one point I did suspect them and we needed to lim somebody, but actually expected him to flip VT. So a nice surprise when he wasn’t.

I would counter this and say that HH’s “case” on CCG is more suspicious, as I made out above. No mention really of CCG, then offers to hammer him 3 or 4 times, and then only late in the game HH absolutely guns for CCG. It’s to perfect in my opinion.

I also think HH referring to you as towny consistently helped me. As scum (haven’t played a scum role for so long) I would imagine you would pick a couple of people as definite town read and focus your fake claims on a small bunch. Whereas if you look at me I have been very reserved commuting to anyone being fully town or fully scum. Just good for thought how was he so confident you were 100% town so early on?

[Brickwalll]

Yes, hh not HH in 1120 sorry.

[Brickwalll]

This may be wrong and I could be criticised post game for this but I won’t be getting my thoughts off Hellhound. So I will put my vote there now. If Bianco is scum she’ll swoop in and hammer I suspect, in which case Well Played. But yeah, I think HH is scum. (Sorry town if I am wrong:( )

Their D2 play particularly is scummy pushing Red and BBT. His case for why BBT is scum is the exact opposite to why I think he is scum funny enough. I think he tunnels on CCG once he knows he’ll be voted out, whereas Hellhound scum reads BBT for distancing himself from CCG

VOTE: hellhound

[Brickwalll]

If Bianco doesn’t swoop in and hammer because she is scum, then she is obviously town.

In which case the game just got hard for Bianco as HH will vote me leaving you with the deciding vote. Good luck Bianco, I hope you see the light.

[Brickwalll]

UNVOTE:

[Brickwalll]

I’ll give HH time but my vote is still there in theory

[Brickwalll]

520 read in conjunction with HH’s D2 play makes me think Hellhound was setting up BBT end of D1 and then continued the BBT push into D2.

If we didn’t lim CCG and went with BBTs choice, it would have been a slam dunk for Hellhound going into D2 to push BBT.

Also, HH pushing cactus as the scum buddy and then NK’ing him makes him look innocent in that moment, but with the benefit of hindsight looks super scummy.

[Brickwalll]

Needless to say I need this game to end before Sunday because my job is taking a hiatus as I am so invested haha. Literally refreshing the page every 5 minutes.

[Brickwalll]

Thanks for the reminder about Elmo's V/LA. I also did not see that. However, how was I attempting a wagon? As far as I know I was the first to vote for Elmo.

Well, redados immediately hooked onto elmo the moment you made the post and when I made my post the 2-vote wagon on Elmo was existing. HOWEVER. I'll also admit that I was half awake when I made that post, so it skipped my mind that you were the one who voted Elmo when

no comments on the Elmo BW.

But yes, in agreement with chazary, HH has been coming off as defensive. Not enough for me to convince myself he's voteworthy. On the flip side of things, I see solid value posts from brickwall and bianco engaging in selective questioning. Definitely great towny vibes. And then comes Baron... still mostly lurking and keeping his posts on the fillerish side of things... and wtf was the vote-unvote on Spartan?
And speaking of Spartan, he's been the MOST low-key person this game yet? The weird thing is no one except Baron (the other low-key person who also happens to be widely anti-townread) has really paid any attention to him. And then, Baron just... unvotes??? I do not like this development at all. Just to put some pressure on this slot, VOTE: Spartan

I still don't have unshakeable SRs, just suspicions, and part of that is due to the fact that I'm not really spotting any interaction that can point to scum pairs (yes I'm looking for this shit this early into d1). The closest thing I could find to 1-on-1 interactions are mine and redados' interactions on like page 1, Elmo's replies, and Baron and HH's interaction (most weird one to me being that in post #26).

I'll be heading off to sleep now, and will mostly lurk tomorrow due to IRL stuff. Hoping to get back into action on Thursday.

Pressure on the slot or easy distancing attempt using absence as the excuse. Only voted him because he was absent, no other reason. Also an easy point to reference back and be like “but I voted for that slot”. Early attempt at creating distance between each other.

It has to be hellhound, can’t see how it isn’t honestly,

[Brickwalll]

The next time these two slots interact with each other at all after the above vote is post 205.

[Brickwalll]

The fact Bianco didn’t hammer immediately means she is town!

[Brickwalll]

Haha I knew it, honestly so chuffed. Even if Bianco goes for me at least I called it right!

VOTE: Hellhound

[Brickwalll]

Bianco I can only implore you to go HH. Good luck, I don’t envy your position and certainly won’t hold it against you if you get it wrong. Ultimately, all there is left to say is good luck and thank you everyone for a great game!

[Brickwalll]

To counter HH though, it doesn’t make sense that I would openly declare Bianco as my scum at the end of D3. Then at D4 start she accuses me so my natural reaction is to shift my vote to HH? Why is that logical?

If anything, I admitted I was wrong with Bianco, put a case together for HH and am standing by it.

I also think building a case mainly on D1 is fair because you weren’t really active after D1 (genuinely, hope you are better now and well rested!!) but also because it’s the one time in the game where all town players are equal and have no “additional info” unless you are scum. So yeah, content with the case I put together.

And like I said, whilst town may lose and it will be a loss against my record, personally I’ll chalk it as a win for getting you scum Hellhound!

[Brickwalll]

Also, once I had outed HH this morning, the only vote he could have done was me. So the more I look at your case, no doubt the more holes I will find. I’m off to do some probing of your post.

[Brickwalll]

How was I trying to rush through the hammer? I told you I am so convinced you are scum I put my vote out there. If I was wrong, Bianco would have rushed the hammer and won. She hasn’t rushed either hammer.

Me declaring my intent early and putting my vote out there was showing trust in Bianco that I didn’t think she was scum. Ultimately it is up to her if she wants to rush the hammer. That argument makes 0 sense.

[Brickwalll]

Your argument on me not being on BBT wagon was answered before you said it. preempting you now that’s how predictable your scum game is.

Essentially though if I am scum it means in the first 2 days of play I:

Limmed my own teammate and then missed the D2 wagon to vote out a townie. Literally the worst scum ever. Yes, it can be argued it was an elaborate ruse to set you all up for the end game. I admit, I think I am good at mafia, but honestly not that good.

[Brickwalll]

I only just realised in post 526 I asked everyone to drop CCG and get on Hellhound! LOL!

Had figured them both out D1. If people had followed through with that we would have hit scum either way.

[Brickwalll]

HH,

All your posts on me moving away from CCG are within a couple of posts of each other.

I have already said I built a case on CCG, and then started doubting it was him once he had claimed. But we needed a lim and I had previously thought he was scum, so once again I preemptively answered this yet you are still using it as a reason to vote me? Why did you ignore my answer explaining it and not address it as part of your theory?

[Brickwalll]

Ok. @Brick, just go ahead and vote hh back, since there is no point in not doing that now.

I need to meditate; and probably to ask questions when I will be able to. It's a somewhat heavy responsibility here; I hope I'll make the right choice.

All alignments and arguments aside (and honestly independent of the game) it is just that - a game. Which ever way it goes, don’t be hard yourself. We are here to have fun and I hope you have had fun at least. I certainly have!

Question wise, ask away. I appreciate I’ve just been downloading every thought in my head today. So suspect there will be a couple.

[Brickwalll]

To counter HH though, it doesn’t make sense that I would openly declare Bianco as my scum at the end of D3. Then at D4 start she accuses me so my natural reaction is to shift my vote to HH? Why is that logical?

That's an interesting point. If Brick!scum voted me, then they would have a 50% EV unless we assume some bias in hh. On the other hand, by voting hh, then their EV lowers, since hh!town needs to vote back regardless of his alignment and then I have signaled a bias against Brick (so presumably I would vote Brick with a chance greater than 50%). This would imply that voting thusly was against win condition for a scum.
@Hellhound, thoughts on this? Do you think it may be WIFOM?

What’s EV?

Sorry missed this post and also dont really understand?

[Brickwalll]

Yup, got it. That makes sense. I went and looked on the wiki and that’s what it said so thanks for confirming.

And yes, you are 100% right. And although I only just learnt this, scum me statistically would have better odds voting you D4 and not hellhound. Even the maths is saying it.

Bianco I feel like you have your doubts on hellhound! It just doesn’t feel right!

[Brickwalll]

But could you not do the inverse argument and say from a town perspective. My EV would be 50% to vote you, but by changing to hh it now becomes less than 50%. Thus by changing votes it is actually to my detriment as town statistically

Same logic, correct perspective.

[Brickwalll]

Let’s talk EV and post 1157 after the game, I’m interested in delving into that train of thought more but out of curiosity so will park that to the side.

hh was building town cred in my opinion, potentially PR fishing, but mostly town cred. I do agree it seems a strange thing to say, almost superfluous.

I think post 1158 you are giving me way too much credit. Sometimes the right answer is right in front of you, don’t go talking yourself out of it.

Which vote revoke are you speaking of specifically, my one on D4? (I.e. today irl?)

[Brickwalll]

Yes, the d4 vote.

Whilst certain enough to lay the vote, hh immediately requested time to post. I think it’s fair in this game to allow them that at least, and also any more info for me can only be beneficial so it was to my benefit too.

Nothing groundbreaking or unexpected in his post though.

[Brickwalll]

The difference between you and me now hh is that I am building my case off your D1 gameplay.

Your case in me now is based on my emotive language and cockiness. Whilst to some degree I don’t think you are wrong, my demeanour has changed today. That is just because I am excited in knowing we are on the cusp of winning. I think Bianco knows deep down I am town because based on my gameplay over the three days, I have done enough to prove that.

Ultimately though, it could go either way. Bianco might read it differently.

hh saying he already had suspicions on Chazary being PR is pure conjecture. We have to take his word for it.

It’s not buddying, it’s fact. I voted on an educated opinion that you were scum. It was a risk boldly going out there and placing my vote, even before you had posted. But like I said, I was so sure in my case and opinion I trusted Bianco wouldn’t quick hammer. This is all WIFOM of course. But it is the truth.

[Brickwalll]

Uh. But since he asked me to not hammer, surely his argument would have been that you were the scum. So whatever he would have said should not have had any relevance whatsoever on your read of him, and so surely the impending post was no reason for an unvote

Again, I did it and can’t change it. I thought he should post and any more info was to my benefit. I put a case against him, it’s only right he comment. I put my vote straight back on him and my opinion was unwavered. I wouldn’t read too much into the unvote.

[Brickwalll]

Again, no other explanation than above. You can dig into it as deep as you like, my answer isn’t changing. I thought it was the right thing to do in the moment, unvote giving him a chance to post. It was unnecessary and I did know that, but the gesture of all of us waiting for each to post I thought carried. Again mistaken.

again Bianco, please be guided by 3 days of play and not one mistaken unvote.

[Brickwalll]

You are mean.

[Brickwalll]

Nothing more from me. I will wait for the fall of the hammer.

Gg all.

[Brickwalll]

Yes!!!!!

[Brickwalll]

Scum win!

[Brickwalll]

I joke, I am town so Hellhound must be scum!

Well done Bianco

[Brickwalll]

Ah no I am so sorry, I read your post after I saw the vote name! So sorry Bianco

[Brickwalll]

I just vote hellhound and got excited! Super sorry

[Brickwalll]

I just saw*

[Brickwalll]

What was the fault of logic D4 if you don’t mind me asking in my case?

[Brickwalll]

Sorry B, I genuinely feel so bad because you did ask

Not gonna lie, it was a long night waiting in suspense! I didn’t want to let on how much suspense you had me in.

[Brickwalll]

In honesty, I should have gone back and read hh sooner. His last minute push on CCG was really good in that moment, he didn’t hold back and interested to hear if CCG was surprised or expected it?

But in ISO and with limited players left, it was pretty easy for me between hh and Bianco. But up until that point hellhound played a great game.

[Brickwalll]

See, you said that the pr thing was a nudge ti ccg, and then the vote was saying that "I tried to save you, but now you're done". However, since mafia has daytalk, if hh wanted a fakeclaim he would have said so to ccg in the mafia pt

Ah that is true. I’m not to sure how DT works tbh, so thought perhaps they had discussed it and then it had been closed and was like “this isn’t what we discussed”. But I also wonder why CCG didn’t claim PR to at least suck out a PR for N1 kill.

I know hh said he suspected WS of being a PR, so firstly want to know if it’s true? And if he did suspect, why not NK him and do cactus instead?

[Brickwalll]

Yup, that is the feel I got with cactus too. Especially because hh had thrown shade at him it was a very clever nk to throw off the scent in my opinion.

Haha also at the end of D3 I said I was definitely voting you start of D4. I had no intention of voting you, but also not hh at that point. I had every intention of doing an ISO read and a read of points in the game and then would put my case forward on D4 as I did.

I've got a lot to learn, whilst it was a good win. I do feel like I bulldozed a bit, slightly too hard on Red in D2. I think I am so intent on finding scum, I kinda forgot there were PRs out there too who you don't want to draw attention too.

[Brickwalll]

I dunno, I still have a hard time with the sentence.

One thing I do know, I'm going to cut back significantly on my ethanol intake while playing. It may be fun playing drunk once in a while, but it doesn't lead to the best decisions. Besides, I need a real NY resolution.

Spoiler:

Don't expect me to not be under the influence of cannabis though!

The spoiler is how I play this game and it does make it tough to remember what you said the day before and why you said something

[Brickwalll]

Interested to see the PT’s

[Brickwalll]

Well done to town! I have no idea why CCG bussed me day 1, as you'll see from the mafia PT!

I was toying with a no kill for N3 and that might have worked out more advantageous, but ultimately didnt want to risk a known townie D4.

Thanks RH and Alianna for modding!

No NK N3 would have been very interesting. Reckon you might have gotten away with it.

[Brickwalll]

@Red - sorry if my gameplay wasn't fun to interact with. Some pointers on how I could improve are always welcome

[Brickwalll]

I don't have access/unauthorised to the mafia PT. Is this meant to be the way?

[Brickwalll]

@Red - sorry if my gameplay wasn't fun to interact with. Some pointers on how I could improve are always welcome

Some context is I was convinced you were scum and your short posts made it seem you were lurking scum. That is how I read it. Obvs the noob in me forgot you could be a PR.

[Brickwalll]

@Red - sorry if my gameplay wasn't fun to interact with. Some pointers on how I could improve are always welcome

It’s okay to scum read someone (or to tunnel on someone). It’s okay to think that someone is playing poorly. But it hurt my feelings when and how you told me I was playing poorly.

Thank you for the feedback. It was a flippant comment and one I really hope you do not hold onto.

In any case, no excuse and certainly no intent to hurt your feelings. In that moment I did not feel like you were pushing town forward. Obviously with hindsight and some more context on this game being played it makes sense why you reserved. My amatuerness showing through there.

In any case I hope it didn’t ruin the game for you and look forward to another in the future.