Newbie 2113 - Shea it ain't So! | Game Over!

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Dionysus

As a Roman emperor I only worship Roman gods.

Played IRL a bit, not online though!

@kawaii why'd you vote Black?

Bacchus is but a cheap imitation of the real deal. The screw top to my cork. His Wikipedia page even redirects to mine

VOTE: herta

[Dionysus]

I've played in school/in forum

You played mafia in school?

[Dionysus]

VOTE: herta

Why you vote herta?

their entrance is scummy

[Dionysus]

VOTE: herta

Why you vote herta?

their entrance is scummy

Herta didn't even go into the game at the point you voted them...

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[viewtopic.php?p=13660000#p13660000][/20]

oh you're right haha.

OK I'll revise my answer to it was rvs but now I think their entrance was scummy

[Dionysus]

Why was their entrance scummy?

Dropping in with "hello" and nothing else, not voting or acknowledging any other posts.

[Dionysus]

it was rvs

rvs?

Rvs = random vote stage

Where at the start of day 1 when there is no info we place random/dumb/fluff votes to stimulate discussion.

[Dionysus]

it was rvs

0kay Ik the concept b4 knowing the name, I thought that was why Black voted herata
If it was rvs why didn't you say it was initially?

Did I have to

[Dionysus]

Dion has so many votes because they're scum.

Patch could be scum, too.

You keep saying this but won't say why.

Why do you think I'm scum?

[Dionysus]

it was rvs

0kay Ik the concept b4 knowing the name, I thought that was why Black voted herata
If it was rvs why didn't you say it was initially?

Did I have to

the issue i'm having is that initially dio said the entrance was scummy, but when it was pointed out that herta hadn't posted yet, backtracked to saying it was rvs

i'm trying to understand what dio was thinking at the time he voted herta/gave the initial explanation
if herta had actually posted first, i think the explanation is fine, but given that herta *hadn't* posted, it kinda feels like dio made up a reason to vote them

I misremembered, that's all.

[Dionysus]

you misremembered what exactly?

When asked why I voted for herta, I couldn't remember what my reasons were so I scrolled to see what their posts were. I saw their intro, thought it was scummy and replied with that.

[Dionysus]

OK I don't want to dwell on this too much - it was careless of me and I admitted it immediately without making any attempt to frame it otherwise. There isn't much more for me to say on it than that.

[Dionysus]

what do you think abt patchwork

I think town. Their focus on irrelevant things like gender identity or sexual orientation is too weird for that to be how scum opens imo.

[Dionysus]

what do you think abt patchwork

I think town. Their focus on irrelevant things like gender identity or sexual orientation is too weird for that to be how scum opens imo.

Hmmm i'm not sure these are great reasons to tr someone

maybe not but it is only 3 posts so

what do you think abt patchwork

I think town. Their focus on irrelevant things like gender identity or sexual orientation is too weird for that to be how scum opens imo.

?
?
?
?
?
wtf does this even mean lol, asking what someone's pronouns are is definitely relevant and while i concede that the "are you gay" question was def a bad joke that's a really dumb thing to tr someone for

take the w

[Dionysus]

Btw townreading patchwork even more for pushing back on my townreading because why would scum do that?

[Dionysus]

Okay, I have some time to post thoughts as I do a little catch up:

Spoiler: page 1

Kawaii

- votes for me in #7 because I voted for herta. Seems like a standard rvs vote (NAI)

hadriaaan

- RVS vote in #12 and asks kawaii why they voted for me (NAI)

BBT

- RVS vote on Dio in #13...Dio now at e-2 (NAI)

Dio

- RVS vote on herta in #14 (NAI)

skitter

- asks what people think of Dio in #22, elaborates on page 2 in #28 (asking kawaii if they think Dio is sus for also voting randomly) (NAI)

Spoiler: page 2

patchwork

- votes kawaii in #31 because kawaii voted me. This vote seems kinda serious? (+wolf)

Kawaii

- says they voted for me because my vote on herta was the first thing they saw (#33), and that they have never seen someone vote for someone else because they are cute (#34). Ok, maybe the vote on me wasn't a joke? (+wolf)
Also in #35, questions why herta has so many votes (even though Dio has 3?) and even questions Dio for voting herta (NAI but weird association with Dio/herta here)

Dio

- says herta's entrance is scummy in #38, seems like a joke because the entrance was "Hello" lol (NAI)
Then goes on to say the vote was RVS when kawaii called him out for voting herta before they even said "Hello" (weird, but NAI)

skitter

- questions Dio on the "herta entrance" comment in #39 and then says patchwork's entrance was scummy in #40 (agreed) (+town)

Spoiler: page 3

BBT

- more jokes in #50 saying Dio is scum and patchwork could be too (NAI)
Goes on in #57 to say Dio may actually be scum over the RVS vote stuff, but I'm not seeing it, and seems like a stretch
In #66 says the Dio explanation is so bad that it is probably town lol. He goes on to explain it in #71 and #72. This seems like town perspective (+town)

Kawaii

- asks BBT in #52 how they know Dio is scum? This seems pretty newtown to me (+town)

skitter

- in #61, really analyzing the Dio switch-up between voting for herta over herta's entrance and voting just because of RVS. Seems opportunistic with slight heat on Dio already to make a case out of nothing (+wolf)
Engages with BBT in #73 about why scum!Dio wouldn't misremember something in RVS. The push on Dio here just seems so odd to me. It's not even really a push, but clearly skitter trying to keep suspicion on Dio for what I consider to be a simple mistake in a joke stage (+wolf)

Spoiler: page 4

Dio

- gives a townread on patchwork in #81? This is a weird read to me and just seems a little informed I guess? (+wolf)

Kawaii

- votes for herta in #82 and in #83 asks herta if they want to engage. Seems a bit early for a pressure vote but (NAI)

patchwork

- not much here but says asking pronouns is important (NAI)
Then in #94 says they thought Kawaii was buddying? What? (+wolf)
Kawaii asks about the "buddying" comment and patchwork explains that he thinks kawaii is buddying herta. Okay, I guess so, but seems like a stretch

Spoiler: page 5

patchwork

- says "buddying" was the wrong term in #101 (NAI)

Dio

- townreads patchwork again in #108. Earlier read seemed informed and he is doubling down on it here but (NAI)

hadriaaan

- good insight on various players in #111, while actively asking questions/scumhunting (+town)
In #113 they read my mind a little with my skitter read (+town)

skitter

- says Dio could be wolf and votes for him in #117? Seems like a double down after pushback over the over-analysis of the Dio situation and I don't like it (+wolf)
Also asks why herta is the leading wagon in #118. Joke stage wagons don't really mean much. But we're definitely out of the joke stage with skitter's Dio push

After catching up, I leantown Kawaii, hadriaaan, BBT. Pretty null on Dio and Herta. I leanwolf on skitter and patchwork.

VOTE: skitter

this is an interesting analysis but I don't sr skitter for this at all. It doesn't read as particularly overzealous to me.

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Empathice

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Dionysus

Toffee is likely powerwolfing if this hits.

Welcome to the game!

UNVOTE: Empathice

[Dionysus]

I kinda think dio is scum tbh

Skitter what are ur thoughts on players not named Dionysus

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Dionysus

Talk me through this read

[Dionysus]

Also Empathice was voting skitter too before switching to Dio

fos: Shea

what does fos mean

Fos = finger of suspicion

Although I favour finger of shame myself

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Dionysus

Talk me through this read

Creating a reason for voting someone after being questioned about your vote. If you were town and actually hunting, you would not presuppose that something about Herta is scummy when questioned.

There would be a chance that you conflated a read on Herta with your RVS vote, however that is not what you said. You said you looked for a read on them after you were questioned.

I Don't believe TWTBAW (Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf) applies in this case either IMO.

I've already said it was a dumb mistake so I don't wanna get bogged down on it.

I need more from herta and hadrian.

[Dionysus]

i wanna ask hadrian what his favorite pokemon is but idk if it would be fluffpost

Articuno

[Dionysus]

I kinda think dio is scum tbh

I Thought this was off because they were voting Dio already but it fits. Still don't like the "kinda" and the "tbh" together.

- i didnt like his vote on you
- kinda/tbh is how i write

what was wrong with my vote on them?

[Dionysus]

I kinda think dio is scum tbh

I Thought this was off because they were voting Dio already but it fits. Still don't like the "kinda" and the "tbh" together.

- i didnt like his vote on you
- kinda/tbh is how i write

what was wrong with my vote on them?

Pinged me wrong
Why did you vote them

@bbt i would consider voting patch too tbh

I voted them because the slot had precisely zero posts at that point and I wanted to generate discussion from them.

[Dionysus]

Ok but the slot was getting replaced and the replacement hadnt posted yet - why would voting them at that point help?

And do you have any reada you'd like to share?

it was just to generate a discussion. Something I think was successful. But I fail to see what is scummy about it? Like what would the scum motivation even be there?

I dismissed the scumread on you being kind of overzealous on me but I'm reevaluating that now tbh. I haven't been able to post anything this game without you suggesting it is scummy.

[Dionysus]

I don't know why you voted there, it doesnt make sense as a town vote at that time, esp. since you don't seem to have other scumreads ...

We're still very early in the game. We might be out of rvs but we are still at a stage where a vote on an absent slot can be helpful. I don't know what is so hard to understand about that. I mean I unvote as soon as they posted.

[Dionysus]

Doing a full re-read while the thread is still short and some thoughts as I go.

#4 - skitter puts RVS vote on me. I didn't think much of it at the time for obvious reasons, but reading their ISO it is the start of a consistent push from.... not much
#20 - Herta's entrance which I think is scummy (completely nothing post and then disappears)
#22 and #28- skitter continuing their push on me. Kawaii answered the reason they were voting Black was because Black voted herta. Skitter tries to have this logic applied to me for also voting herta. Note that at this point I hadn't made my mistake over the motivation for my vote on herta
#29 - patchwork's entrance (not linking to all 3 posts but this is the first). Idk what this posts is in reference too but it is followed with a post asking for personal details of players that aren't relevant and also regurgitating a question that was already asked on page 1. Initially townread them for this because I think it was too weird an intro for scum but I've been told this is too dumb a reason to tr someone so these posts (out of context) are now null to me.
#34 - Up until this point there is a weird thing about people voting herta, kawaii explains here that the vote on Black for this was down to their stated reasons. Kawaii why didn't you just say this initially?
#41 - kawaii picks up on my mistake
#50 - BBT rejoins the fray to say I'm scummy for.... reasons. Doesn't feel based on the discussion earlier about the mistaken reasons for voting herta. The page ends with BBT tring me (or not sring me) off the back off it because my explanation was so bad (lol)
#67 - skitter is not convinced
#81 - I post my tr on patchwork. Get pushback from both skitter #85 and patchwork themselves #88
#93 - skitter explains the sr on patchwork being over their vote on kawaii
#94 - patch explains it's because they think kawaii was buddying. Unclear what is buddying about their vote on Black being because they voted Herta? Although they admit this is silly reasoning and later that buddying is the incorrect term
#107 - A post from patchwork that I would call buddying of kawaii
#111 - hadrian returns with a tr on patch and BBT and a bad vibe on skitter
#117 - after a bit of a nudge, skitter finally votes me after a lot of finger pointing
#120 - black posts some good analysis which I think comes from a town mindset even if I don't necessarily agree with it all
#131 - I *do* agree with what is posted here, though. I have come undone as town in previous games over stupid stuff that has happened in RVS. I have witnessed other town players come undone over stupid RVS stuff. I have myself tunnelled on town players over stupid RVS stuff. This is why I don't love the stage (which skitter knows). But it's not for me to tell others how to play the game!

Skitter - seems to be a bit tunnelled here, not sure if overzealous townie or opportunistic scum, but I will see how she interacts with others.
patch - leaning scum now. their contributions after their intro haven't been great and I don't get the sense they are actually trying to find scum.
Herta - Hope everything goes ok with your procedure! But in terms of the game you will probably be a big null to me until we get more from them so I hope they're town
Empathice - Really like this slot. Only 9 posts so far but their contributions already feel much more helpful for town than some of the more active posters
kawaii - reading through their ISO in isolation, there is a lot of asking others questions about why they have done something or what they mean, but very little of their own thoughts. Not great for the poster with the second highest post count
black - townread, thoughtful analysis which feels likeit comes from a town mindset
BBT - null at this point. Don't know one way or another
hadrian - null. need much more

Town read

Empathice
Black

Lean town

Null

Herta
BBT
Hadrian

Lean scum

Skitter

Scum read

Kawaii

Too many nulls for my liking scumleaning skitter for now because they came out against a vote on kawaii when from what I can see kawaii is a pretty good bw to start with.

VOTE: kawaii

Mod Note: Fixed post tag

[Dionysus]

Urgh mod can you pls fix that post tag

[Dionysus]

I like this analysis by Dio. Posts like this with a summary of the game accompanied by thoughts as well as a full reads list always ping me as town. Wolves are more than capable of these types of posts but they can easily talk themselves into a corner by being so open early on. My only issue is that a couple of his reads (skitter, patchwork) seem to mimic my own but I don't necessarily find this scummy, just notable.

Also I think kawaii just might be newtown. That's the vibes I'm getting so far at least

Maybe. I don't want to rule this out, but reading their posts they clearly have experience from elsewhere. They have said so themselves and have made reference to mistakes they have made as scum.

But I wasn't a newbie to mafia before I joined here either and still fell on my face so I'll keep it in mind.

@Dionysus How do my contributions feel more helpful to town when I've primarily pushed you?

@BlueBloodedToffee I Can understand calling their explanation TWTBAW except I think that scum in

that particular

situation would be likely to feel forced to give one even if it's terrible.

Black is defending, chainsaw defending, and nullreading Dion simultaneously. I Would say that Dion placing Black in their top teir makes them unlikely to be partnered though, and scum!Black is unlikely to treat town!Dion this way so Black's probably town.

(Chainsaw defending is attacking someone's attackers rather than directly defending.)

Also Dion left patch off their list despite scumleaning them.

bib: it seems like you're suggesting that I shouldn't townread you because you have been pushing me which.... is not a very good way to play mafia. If you tunnel me then that is different, but so far you haven't. Your posts feel like they are coming from a town mindset to me, with a genuine intention to hunt scum and have some thoughtful content. This is still helpful for town even if you're wrong, no? Unless you tunnel, obviously.

And I did miss patch off, oops. They should be scum lean below Skitter.

[Dionysus]

@Dionysus How do my contributions feel more helpful to town when I've primarily pushed you?

@BlueBloodedToffee I Can understand calling their explanation TWTBAW except I think that scum in

that particular

situation would be likely to feel forced to give one even if it's terrible.

Black is defending, chainsaw defending, and nullreading Dion simultaneously. I Would say that Dion placing Black in their top teir makes them unlikely to be partnered though, and scum!Black is unlikely to treat town!Dion this way so Black's probably town.

(Chainsaw defending is attacking someone's attackers rather than directly defending.)

Also Dion left patch off their list despite scumleaning them.

bib: it seems like you're suggesting that I shouldn't townread you because you have been pushing me which.... is not a very good way to play mafia. If you tunnel me then that is different, but so far you haven't. Your posts feel like they are coming from a town mindset to me, with a genuine intention to hunt scum and have some thoughtful content. This is still helpful for town even if you're wrong, no? Unless you tunnel, obviously.

And I did miss patch off, oops. They should be scum lean below Skitter.

"but their contributions already feel much more

helpful

for town than some of the more active posters"

I Took this to mean you thought I was being pro-town. How am I being pro-town while exclusively pushing you from your POV?

Definitely not demanding OMGUS.

... It is possible to be behaving in a pro-town manner and also be wrong?

[Dionysus]

Patchwork did you ever end up posting that readslist?

Nope

[Dionysus]

reading through their ISO in isolation, there is a lot of asking others questions about why they have done something or what they mean, but very little of their own thoughts. Not great for the poster with the second highest post count

I'm inquisitive by nature, even questioning my own reads, holding back my own thoughts

Black's post #120 is the basis of my reads, flipping town in my eyes initially with the detailed analysis

I feel Hadrian is town, good analysis/reads, I liked the pressuring skittle to vote

I'm enjoying the aggression of Empathice, I'm willing to pursue the dio vote in post #141 to see if Toffee flips powerwolf

I find the relationship between dio/skitter the most interesting, skitter pursuing dio feels like town pursuing mafia/mafia pursuing town, I'm divided with the philosophy of pursuing votes based on rvs slips/mistakes, if I take skitter's pursuit in good faith dio is most likely scum, if I take skitter's pursuit in bad faith then dio is most likely town, I believe you can scumhunt in any stage with rvs being the most nai, skitter definitely changed the game state with the dio vote

I like dio's read post, pressuring me to give my thoughts benefits town, same with town reading empathize despite pushing against dio, someone can be pro-town while pushing a town vote as dio noted

Black noted,
"Wolves are more than capable of these types of posts" - #199


This possibility exists, Empathice noted a possible Black-Dio mafia team, to me Black's analysis feels organically town, I see Black as being town while Dio can flip both ways, my view on Dio keeps changing constantly

I feel voting dio gives the most info in the flip
VOTE: Dionysus

This is much better. This is a very townie post imo.

UNVOTE: kawaii

[Dionysus]

it was just to generate a discussion. Something I think was successful. But I fail to see what is scummy about it? Like what would the scum motivation even be there?

I dismissed the scumread on you being kind of overzealous on me but I'm reevaluating that now tbh. I haven't been able to post anything this game without you suggesting it is scummy.

Aww man, this is like the 7 stages of being scum. First, appease. Second, fight back. Then, give up... etc etc.

I really don't like this. Your every move doesn't need to be scum motivated - I read your initial vote as town. A new player enters the game, you vote to apply early pressure and to see what happens kind of thing...then you immediately remove it and I was left feeling meh about the whole thing.

I-... what?

Can someone explain to me why voting an absent slot to try and kick start a discussion with them and then unvoting once they show they are fully engaged is such a taboo? It is pretty nai to me.

I really don't get it.

[Dionysus]

Patch your read list doesn't have to have comprehensive reasons. Something simple would be sufficient

[Dionysus]

Patch your read list doesn't have to have comprehensive reasons. Something simple would be sufficient

yea but iioa is really fucking dumb

and i don't want to have to reach for reasons, if im gonna scumread/townread someone it should at least make sense (*cough* unlike the "patchwork has a fluffy entrance" argument)

it's better than nothing

[Dionysus]

Putting herta at the top of your tr list is a... choice

[Dionysus]

VOTE: patch

Should be e-2

[Dionysus]

VOTE: patch

Should be e-2

lol voting me because i don't agree with you

Not at all! If you read my post in #196 you'll see I was already scumreading you. All you have done is be rude to people about their reads (whether tr or sr) and ask irrelevant questions about pronouns or favourite pokemon. Beyond that you have made no noticeable effort to actually hunt scum yourself and had to be pressed harder than you should have been to post a simple list of reads. The reads themselves are not very sensible, but that's not why I'm voting for you.

[Dionysus]

well i don't have the time to respond to that but just letting you know: i saw that, and i will absolutely slam you for it later

Look forward to it

[Dionysus]

Black what do you think about patch?

[Dionysus]

Yeah that's a weird one lol.

[Dionysus]

VOTE: patch

Should be e-2

lol voting me because i don't agree with you

Not at all! If you read my post in #196 you'll see I was already scumreading you. All you have done is be rude to people about their reads (whether tr or sr) and ask irrelevant questions about pronouns or favourite pokemon. Beyond that you have made no noticeable effort to actually hunt scum yourself and had to be pressed harder than you should have been to post a simple list of reads. The reads themselves are not very sensible, but that's not why I'm voting for you.

I missed this post but I feel like this sums up why patch is scummy. He could just be a busy townie though so I'll have to hear more from him before I can decide on his slot

They also have more posts than anyone so I find "too busy" kinda hard to square with that.

[Dionysus]

Genuine question to patch: how can you argue you're too busy to contribute to the hunt more than you have from the top of the post count? It's not very credible.

[Dionysus]

Not at all! If you read my post in #196 you'll see I was already scumreading you. All you have done is be rude to people about their reads (whether tr or sr) and ask irrelevant questions about pronouns or favourite pokemon. Beyond that you have made no noticeable effort to actually hunt scum yourself and had to be pressed harder than you should have been to post a simple list of reads. The reads themselves are not very sensible, but that's not why I'm voting for you.

i don’t actually think i’ve been that rude, actually. maybe more agressive or passive-agressive, but never does it get rude. i think i call the reasons dumb or something but never am i actually throwing around insults, condemning people for reading certain people, etc. like at least when i say i dont like a read i will explain it.
for instance, your early townread on me was objectively REALLY DUMB. it felt like a stretch to me and then your later read about how i rejected it was also dumb, because both town and scum can do that!! like at least im gonna tell you why i think your read sucks, instead of your “putting herta at the top of your list was a choice” with a crap ton of negative tone.
so, no, i was not being rude, and someone could maybe explain it to me and i would accept that i was maybe being rude but like. blind assertions are stupid (like the one you just made about me being rude!). maybe i was being rude but. like. How.

and while i concede the pokemon thing is irrelevant, am i not allowed to be excited over seeign someone who knows the same content that i do?
like hadrian has red as their profile picture!! usually i get laughed at for liking “middle school things” but if i see someone who has the same interests as me i’m obviously gonna be excited. and what was the alternative? pm them? that would be weird because they’re literally someone off the internet, and i also can’t figure out how the pm system works anyways.
i only made two comments about pokemon anyways: one in my opening post, where i expressed excitement regarding their avatar, and another on like. page 5 or 4. dont remember. but it was about “ughh i would ask them what their favorite pokemon is but it would be fluffposting”. the thing i was trying to avoid was fluffposting lol.
and its kinda weird to pm someone you havent talked to before on a mafia website about the pokemon adventures manga, lol. way better to mention it once in a game and then hold respect for them

on the pronouns: dumb fucking take. maybe i’m being rude now but holy shit that is so dumb. pronouns are absolutely not irrelevant, like what?
~ four people in this game do not have their pronouns listed so i’m forced to use gender-neutral pronouns for them despite the fact that they might not prefer those pronouns?
without pronouns: would you rather me say “dionysus scumreads patchwork because patchwork wasn’t posting patchwork’s readlist and dionysus doesn’t like the way patchwork plays”. like that’s just lumpy, whereas i can just say “they don’t like the way i wasn’t writing readlists well enough and didn’t like how i played”. like the reason why pronouns exist are so you can talk about people without sounding like an idiot, and when it’s all just they/thems you can’t understand the sentence either.
and i’ve been pretty explicit about my pronouns so far this game, with the glaring aroace pride flag, the they/them under my username, and yet i’ve already gotten misgendered. like..... what?
i think it’s pretty damn important to at least talk about what your preferred pronouns are because not everyone in this game uses he/him pronouns and it’s a little annoying to have to refer to multiple people and then use multiple “they”s referring to different people each time, because then it gets annoying to differentiate and hard to read. it’s not killing me to not know what people’s pronouns are, of course. but like. it’s pretty important when this is a social deduction game when you have to talk about people and the actions of the people around you.

on readlist: as already said, i like to put thought into my readlists. i’m ngl, i don’t care if you vote me out, it just makes you guys look like clowns, but i’m here to learn and grow as a player. social deduction games like mafia (the game we’re playing right now) requires a lot of thought! your take on someone might be different than someone else’s take, and so it’s important to EXPLAIN WHY you think they’re aligned one way or another, so clash about your point can be way easier to discuss.
in the end, mafia is based on the decisions of an aligned town, and if you can’t have these wholehearted discussions with your time and effort put into them, you’re gonna lose.
so i can see how the push for a readlist can be viewed as scummy, yeah. but honestly, do i care? read it as scummy if you want, actually. but in my eyes, it is absolutely not. wanting to put more thought into a game is not inherently bad, and it does not make me scummy.
for instance, let’s talk about that one readlist of yours. all you did was highlight important points. where’s the explanation? do you state why you read certain players certain ways? no, you do not. that’s iioa, and it makes talking about reads really annoying.
it also allows for inconsistencies to go unchecked, btw! if a person doesnt state a reason in their initial readlist and then bullshits another reason later on, you can’t say “hey, your reasons are different now”, because there wasn’t a reason in the first place.
also, not gonna bother with the “you’re actively contributing” point. i literally am not, that’s 100% fair. i can’t really be that active and i’ll probably miss out on a lot of important things. also, might not be what you’re saying, but it kind of reads like an activity scumread. which i’ve seen a few times in this game already, but i’m not gonna jump to assumptions about what you’re saying, ‘cause then it gets messy.

anyways, sorry for the longpost. i’m personally garbage at reading long posts so i tried to break up each section with some line breaks and stuff for better accessibility.

Genuine question to patch: how can you argue you're too busy to contribute to the hunt more than you have from the top of the post count? It's not very credible.

i come on every once in a while and post

a lot

. if you look at my iso, it's just me making every post one or two sentences, responding to every quote in seperate posts, etc. also, never said i was too busy to scumhunt. just too busy to type out a proper analysis of every single player (and it's kind of pointless to do that anyways, since we're ten pages in anyways).like, if you haven't noticed, i have bursts of activity. i might make one or two posts sometimes but once i log on i can post a lot very fast before disappearing again. case in point: logged on this afternoon and posted like ten times in a row lol

I mean this post is huge and you have put more energy into telling me why you think you haven't been rude, defending asking about pokemon and why your reads are basic. This is a huge post of butthurt and zero scumhunting.

So I really don't buy your excuses. Maybe you are just a newb, but you clearly have plenty of time to post frequently and at length!

[Dionysus]

also just thought of this but like. dionysus whats going on with those reasons of yours
like what about me asking about people's pronouns is scummy? is mentioning pokemon twice scummy? is being rude scummy? if so, you can't just blindly assert that. you have to explain why it's inherently mafia-aligned and why i should be voted for it.

I never said either of these things were scummy. I said they are irrelevant.

[Dionysus]

Kind of baffled at the patches townreads after that huge post which is more of the same. How can someone say they don't have the time/energy yet to put into posting reads or hunting for scum yet have the largest post count and also clearly have the time to make a huge post pushing back on this:

Not at all! If you read my post in #196 you'll see I was already scumreading you. All you have done is be rude to people about their reads (whether tr or sr) and ask irrelevant questions about pronouns or favourite pokemon. Beyond that you have made no noticeable effort to actually hunt scum yourself and had to be pressed harder than you should have been to post a simple list of reads. The reads themselves are not very sensible, but that's not why I'm voting for you.

If you're able to turn this into a >1000 word rebuke then you can focus that energy on scumhunting? Even if it isn't scummy, it is at best null?

[Dionysus]

Agreed that we will be partially flying blind if we go ahead with a lim without getting more from the lurkslots, but that includes hadrian too. He needs to contribute more.

[Dionysus]

I agree with Dion.

Town reads on Patch because 'long post' are bad.

It's not abt the quantity of the words, but the qualitu of them

What exactly is quality about patch's posts?

[Dionysus]

Empathice are you able to post a read list? You're another who hasn't contributed a lot and it would be good to hear more from you.

[Dionysus]

Game is stagnating a bit so I'm gonna pivot to one of the lurkers.

VOTE: hadrian

[Dionysus]

Performative is an odd description

[Dionysus]

The patch wagon isn't going anywhere. I'm exploring another one (read my earlier post about lurky slots).

[Dionysus]

like what even is the point of voting a less active person
didn't hadrian say he was busy with rl things? like if he's really offline he cant do anything about it, if he's online he's obviously not gonna react to it

This is also a really weird thing to say.

He's offline so I shouldn't vote him? What? Why does that matter? He will come online at some point and respond then. Why wouldn't he react to it if he was online?

[Dionysus]

Like if he is online and ignoring the thread entirely and votes against him then that is indicative of lurkscum imo so that would still be valuable information.

[Dionysus]

Black, empathice, patchwork and probably bbt are town
Dio is scum
And a partner in the remainder imo

This ia my present view of the game

Why are you so sure of me?

[Dionysus]

Same question to you, empathice. Your scum case against me seems entirely down to a dumb ill-thought mistake during rvs. Or is there more?

[Dionysus]

OK so now Empathice has decided to tunnel me over a dumb rvs mistake and has confirmed there is no other reason for their read on me, I no longer townread them. This is not pro-town behaviour.

[Dionysus]

Black, empathice, patchwork and probably bbt are town
Dio is scum
And a partner in the remainder imo

This ia my present view of the game

Why are you so sure of me?

Your posts keep pinging me as being just 'off- - not just once or twice, but over and over and over again

I don't feel like you're solving - you have a lot of activity and are ~here a lot but tbh i don't really feel like you have solid scumreads

This is pretty terrible reasoning too from someone who has me top of their scum list. In summary your read is based on vibes. You also cite me having a lot of posts but don't get the sense I'm trying to solve yet you tr patches of all people.

[Dionysus]

Do you have any other thoughts? I feel like the game has slowed right down and my attempts at reviving it by changing course have not worked haha. Hadrian where you at?

[Dionysus]

We absolutely need more from hadrian and Herta. I'm not sure if Herta is even going to contribute over the next few days with their procedure. Idk what Hadrian's excuse is

Hadrian has been online today and didn't post. I also saw them online yesterday and not posting. +lurkscum while a wagon against me is being pushed.

Empathice's ISO is not a town ISO btw. Just read it and tell me you honestly think it comes from an experienced town player. He joins the game and immediately jumps on the wagon with the most mobility, and then every single post he has made after that has been tunneling on that wagon. This isn't scumhunting.

I initially townread them because I liked the way they had analysed what had happened and it felt like it had come from a pro-town perspective, even if their analysis is obviously incorrect from my pov. However, they have just tunnelled me since then. The way someone characterised skitter's early behaviour as opportunistic scum taking advantage of a newb mistake during RVS can definitely be applied to empathice. At least skitter has entertained other wagons, empathice has not. So I think this comes from a scum mindset.

This is pretty terrible reasoning too from someone who has me top of their scum list. In summary your read is based on vibes. You also cite me having a lot of posts but don't get the sense I'm trying to solve yet you tr patches of all people.

Sometimes vibes/feelings is all you have to go off of, I don't think it's pretty terrible, definitely not ideal

It's not just because their read seems to be mostly vibes that I think is bad. Skitter also includes in her justification that I'm posting a lot but don't seem like I'm solving and that I don't have any solid scumreads (which I don't agree with). Even if that latter point were true, how can that be scummy for me, but not someone like patches? Who still leads the table for posts but is doing nothing to try and solve the game. It is not very consistent.

Skitter is an obvious possible scum partner for empathice. Empathice very briefly put a bit of heat in skitter's direction for no apparent reason when they joined the game. This can be a helpful scum tactic to hide a partnership. If scum immediately goes for their partner then that will be the first thing people see when reviewing someone's whole ISO. They both have also similarly tunnelled me (although skitter has been more open minded than emp) and neither is able to justify their read beyond vibes and a dumb RVS mistake.

This might be too obvious a pair, so I look to patches.

I do not buy that this slot is behaving in a pro-town way. As I have said, they have barely made any effort to solve the game. Their biggest read is an omgus on me and their most notable post is a butthurt wall of text telling me that asking about pokemon isn't dumb, actually (this is tongue in cheek, patches. pls don't give me another tl;dr). The pro-town argument for them is that their frustration seems genuine, but then patches has said this:

I liked getting their unfiltered thoughts, it felt v real and raw. The frustration seems townie to me

also on this im always very raw with my thoughts regardless of alignment,

as maf i tend to respond with frustration when scumread or voted and its usually very genuine because im just good at slipping into the townie role

(believe it or not) one game i won as scum because i kept forgetting i was mafia-aligned. and yeah that Happened! i was a non-meeting mafia tho
so you really can't townread me for that really, it's nai at most
though i guess you don't know my meta so can't really blame you for thinking that of me

Did no one else pick up on this? Patches basically agreeing with skitter that their frustration is genuine because AS MAFIA they tend to respond with frustration when scumread. This feels like a pretty apt description of what has happened so far: lashing out in frustration because they have been scumread. In the same sentence this comment is qualified with saying that they are very good at slipping into a town mindset even when scum. So if we take patches at their word, their frustration is at best NAI because they would behave the same no matter alignment, or at worst frustrated scum. This looks like a scumslip to me, though. Why even specify that this is how you behave as mafia if this is how you behave fullstop.

So if patches is scum, who is their partner? I don't feel skitter as a scumpartner for patches. They have argued too strongly in their defence which I just don't think skitter would do if they were partners. Empathice is more likely, especially with:

lol am i seriously at e-2
so far the only reasons are "thought herta/kawaii were partnered" and "fluffposting in rvs" and both of them are pretty sad
though to be fair the tr reasons are just as sad

The fluffposting accusations would

maybe

vanish if you actually posted a readslist like you said.

Could be a prod/signal to their partner that posting reads will get some heat off them whilst maintaining the image of trying to hunt scum.

So my top 2 scum pairs at the mo are:

skitter/empathice
patches/empathice

I don't want to tunnel on these three though so if I have time later I will look for scum in other slots, but it is tricky until herta and hadrian start to contribute.

[Dionysus]

sorry that post wasn't meant to be as long as it was when I started typing it up haha

[Dionysus]

To clarify, skitter/empathice is probably too obvious and the most likely scumpair between those three players is emp/patches. Emp/skitter is just one I wouldn't entirely rule out!

And the reason I highlight that post as a scumslip is because they described how they have been playing so far as how they play as mafia and then qualified it. They never said this is just how I play.

Anyway as I said I will hunt for scum elsewhere later today if I have time but I just wanted to get those thoughts out there. Maybe move the game along a bit......

[Dionysus]

Black, empathice, patchwork and probably bbt are town
Dio is scum
And a partner in the remainder imo

This ia my present view of the game

Why are you so sure of me?

Your posts keep pinging me as being just 'off- - not just once or twice, but over and over and over again

I don't feel like you're solving - you have a lot of activity and are ~here a lot but tbh i don't really feel like you have solid scumreads

This is pretty terrible reasoning too from someone who has me top of their scum list. In summary your read is based on vibes. You also cite me having a lot of posts but don't get the sense I'm trying to solve yet you tr patches of all people.

- i literally just don't see town when i look at your posts, they feel scummy to me
- i kinda get the sense they *want* to solve but don't have the time to atm.

You keep making posts/pushes that are meaningless: voting empathice right qhen they repped in, and/or hadriaan when they said they aren't going to be here is fluff.

You're not accomplishing or scumhunting or pushing anything with those votes. They look like they're there so it seems like you're doing something, but they're empty and meaningless

Like patch is being v honest abt their inability to solve right now. I feel like you're trying to look like you are, but you're not actually doing anything. You look busy

Bib: firstly, hadrian never said they wouldn't be here. That was herta. Secondly, you are saying I keep making meaningless posts or pushes. So I ask you: why are you ignoring my patches push? That is not meaningless. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it so.

[Dionysus]

B/c a lot of what you are doing otherwise is kinda performative. On top of that, i don't think patches is scum

But neither of these things make it meaningless? You are saying you don't think I am trying to hunt scum and you are doing so by painting a picture of me that ignores my biggest push. Like it or not, that push is there. So this is not a true reflection.

[Dionysus]

Also hadrian did say they're busy irl atm and are in the 'lurker' category for most people

"sorry I've been busy" is not "I'm not going to be around"

[Dionysus]

Empathice replaces Simon.

VOTE: Empathice

VOTE: Dionysus

Toffee is likely powerwolfing if this hits.

Welcome to the game!

UNVOTE: Empathice

What was the point of this sequence exactly?

I've already explained this.

I voted Empathice because the slot at that point had no posts and I wanted to vote for them to encourage activity. They posted and seemed engaged so I unvoted. Why are you so fixated on this? We can use our votes in lots of ways. Applying pressure is one of those ways. If you disagree with how useful that is, fine, but that is why I did it and I don't understand why it isn't landing.

[Dionysus]

Game is stagnating a bit so I'm gonna pivot to one of the lurkers.

VOTE: hadrian

You're not even voting patches, your vote is on someone you literally called a lurker

Believe me, I'd much rather flip patches atp than hadrian. But see my last post about using my vote to apply pressure. I want some content form hadrian.

[Dionysus]

Empathice replaces Simon.

VOTE: Empathice

VOTE: Dionysus

Toffee is likely powerwolfing if this hits.

Welcome to the game!

UNVOTE: Empathice

What was the point of this sequence exactly?

I've already explained this.

I voted Empathice because the slot at that point had no posts and I wanted to vote for them to encourage activity. They posted and seemed engaged so I unvoted. Why are you so fixated on this? We can use our votes in lots of ways. Applying pressure is one of those ways. If you disagree with how useful that is, fine, but that is why I did it and I don't understand why it isn't landing.

I mean dis you think he wasnt going to be active if you didnt make that vote? Like that's why it seemed performative: it didnt seem to be accomplishing anything

I've already explained why I put the vote there several times. I'm not explaining it again. It seems like you aren't interested in even considering anything I'm doing might be coming from a town perspective and have made up your mind. You've been on my ass since page 1.

[Dionysus]

Game is stagnating a bit so I'm gonna pivot to one of the lurkers.

VOTE: hadrian

You're not even voting patches, your vote is on someone you literally called a lurker

Believe me, I'd much rather flip patches atp than hadrian. But see my last post about using my vote to apply pressure. I want some content form hadrian.

So ...you're telling me that although i'm suspicious of you for having performatice votes, that should be discounted given your other legitimate pushes (i.e. patches) ... while voting for someone who's low activity that you called a lurker in order to pressure them ... ?

That doesnt really make sense to me

... What?

I never said any of this. I didn't say discount anything. In fact I said the opposite: stop discounting my strong push on patches because it doesn't suit your narrative.

[Dionysus]

You're voting a lurker during your strong push on patches tho .... it kinda undercuts the strength of that push, no?

Does it? Why is that?

[Dionysus]

Ok ... in what way is your patches push 'strong' ?

I would normally associate 'strong' with a vote, which is not the case here

Agree to disagree on your association with a vote. As I said already, our vote is a tool we can use for different things. Applying pressure is one of them. Pushing a lim is another.

Dion, your push on Patch is built off of them being partnered with me. Your primary push right now is me.

Black, empathice, patchwork and probably bbt are town
Dio is scum
And a partner in the remainder imo

This ia my present view of the game

Why are you so sure of me?

If you thought Patch was scummy why not ask why skitter thinks they're town? You've been defending yourself over hunting, your primary townread became such after they defended you, and your primary push is OMGUS.

My push on patches is literally not built on them being partnered with you lol? Where did you get that idea from? My push on patches came much earlier than my sr of you.

And I have asked Skitter why they think patches is Town several times. Have you been following?

And my primary push is not an omgus. If it was it would be Skitter.

[Dionysus]

And where from that did you get that my patches push is built around you? Because if you read the rest of my ISO you will see my patches push has been there a while.

[Dionysus]

And where from that did you get that my patches push is built around you? Because if you read the rest of my ISO you will see my patches push has been there a while.

Because this is a wallpost and the other posts you are refering to do not qualify as a strong push.

so you agree that my patches push predates this post? Good.

Now can you please make some posts (any posts) about other players? The vast majority of your posts are about me. It is beyond tiresome now and you *might* find some value on focusing somewhere other than me, if you're town that is.

[Dionysus]

Colour me shocked.

Fuck it.

VOTE: empathise

This is not a townie.

[Dionysus]

Yes it is

I think with the exception of one post, maybe two I'd have to check, all their posts have been about me and the push has been quite aggressive. The closest they've ever come to entertaining someone else was a fluff vote on you which was immediately retracted (no commentary from you tho on what the purpose of it was tho. Weird). But since then: Dio Dio Dio Dio. No focus elsewhere. Not interested in thinking they might be wrong. Dio Dio Dio Dio.

How is that town behaviour? Some verbose way of saying "because I agree with them" is not an acceptable answer to this question either. Tell me why they are town

[Dionysus]

Yes it is

I think with the exception of one post, maybe two I'd have to check, all their posts have been about me and the push has been quite aggressive. The closest they've ever come to entertaining someone else was a fluff vote on you which was immediately retracted (no commentary from you tho on what the purpose of it was tho. Weird). But since then: Dio Dio Dio Dio. No focus elsewhere. Not interested in thinking they might be wrong. Dio Dio Dio Dio.

How is that town behaviour? Some verbose way of saying "because I agree with them" is not an acceptable answer to this question either. Tell me why they are town

Reading you correctly doesn't make me win. Eliminating you makes me win.

eliminating me will only help you win if you're scum. So on that I guess you're right: getting rid of me will make you win.

[Dionysus]

@bbt tbh i really don't know where scum is if it isnt dio

Because you haven't bothered trying to look that's why

[Dionysus]

Yes it is

I think with the exception of one post, maybe two I'd have to check, all their posts have been about me and the push has been quite aggressive. The closest they've ever come to entertaining someone else was a fluff vote on you which was immediately retracted (no commentary from you tho on what the purpose of it was tho. Weird). But since then: Dio Dio Dio Dio. No focus elsewhere. Not interested in thinking they might be wrong. Dio Dio Dio Dio.

How is that town behaviour? Some verbose way of saying "because I agree with them" is not an acceptable answer to this question either. Tell me why they are town

Reading you correctly doesn't make me win. Eliminating you makes me win.

eliminating me will only help you win if you're scum. So on that I guess you're right: getting rid of me will make you win.

Would you like to thunderdome? One of us gets eliminated today and if they flip town we eliminate the other tomorrow.

I'm open to this tbh. As long as we flip you today.

[Dionysus]

But neither of us can't control the elimination on our own so that would need support so it's not really up to me!

[Dionysus]

I'm open to this tbh

why????????? the entire focus of this damn game has been dionysus dionysus dionysus empathice empathice empathice literally quit it lol
you can think someone is scum but what about literally all the other players

Lolz relax it isn't gonna happen.

[Dionysus]

I Think I'll change Patch to town now.

So it's probably one of: Dion/BBT, Dion/Kawaii or Dion/had

Kawaii's most recent wall #443 I didn't like the analysis of Black. I Did like the analysis of Black in #404 though. They should probably focus more on slots that aren't consensus town.

Scum case bbt, kawaii and hadrian. See if ya can make a post that's not about yours truly

[Dionysus]

Patches there are a lot of posts there so lmk if there are any in particular you want me to address.

But I did really like the spate of posts there and it finally feels like you're engaged and trying to find scum!

[Dionysus]

Emp your push to get black to claim whether we are masons is, uh, not a town one. If you have that theory, propose it and come back to it if black does die tonight and flips mason, but don't try and get PRs to out themselves on d1? Like this shouldn't have to be said. The answer to that question whether it is yes we are masons or no we are not masons is only helpful to scum because then they have more information on where the PRs are which makes it easier for them to plan their NAs and work out how they are going to win the game. This is by a mile the scummiest thing anyone has tried so far this game.

[Dionysus]

Yes it is

I think with the exception of one post, maybe two I'd have to check, all their posts have been about me and the push has been quite aggressive. The closest they've ever come to entertaining someone else was a fluff vote on you which was immediately retracted (no commentary from you tho on what the purpose of it was tho. Weird). But since then: Dio Dio Dio Dio. No focus elsewhere. Not interested in thinking they might be wrong. Dio Dio Dio Dio.

How is that town behaviour? Some verbose way of saying "because I agree with them" is not an acceptable answer to this question either. Tell me why they are town

Well, for one, i like he's agreeing with me
Two, i'm townreading the aggression. I don't think scum is usually *this* cocky and forceful and aggressive in pushing a flip

He's offered to gladiate you, and doesnt seem to care if we flip him so long as we flip you too ... i townread that

Is agreement all it takes to get you to tr someone? Will note that for future games I play with you where I'm scum.

And he did. I accepted his offer, do you not townread that?

[Dionysus]

Skitter had clearly just decided I was scum after 2 posts and has tunnelled me since:

And what do both of u think of dio?

Pretty much since then it has been "this is scummy", "this is suspicious", "this is off" to pretty much my every move, while townreading others for similar things (see: the tr on patch and now empath).

I agree with you that it is unlikely skitter and empath are scum together. Just too obvious a pairing. So until we get a flip from empath I'm just gonna have to put this down to skitter having an, uh, off game, to put it mildly.

For info skitter and I have played one game together (2110) and she flopped at reading me then too. The tunnel wasn't as bad as this but I was her top sr for most if not all of day 1.

[Dionysus]

Different how?

[Dionysus]

Seriously if that is part of your read on me then it would have been helpful for you to say before now.

[Dionysus]

Different how?

Well, last game you were solving more and didn't feel off the entire game

I could understand the point of your posts and why you were making them, and what you were trying to accomplish with them. That's why i'm having such an issue with the posts/pushes that don't seem like they're going anywhere

Perhaps if I had some breathing room and wasn't being tunnelled from two different directions you might take a different view.

But.

I don't particularly want to continue to be the main character of day 1. I want to focus on empath now and await their answers to my latest posts.

[Dionysus]

Also like i'm noting that you aren't reallu addressing the differences so

I did?

[Dionysus]

Which is also why i didnt really want to get into the meta b/c going to be hard to justify it, but i feel p strongly that this game doesnt look much like that one

If you want to look at like day3+ of that game you couod see he's universally townread.

And earlier in the game he had controversial opinions that he was pushing too

And, like, i don't think the fact that i'm being lazy, which i will readily admit to, invalidates the points i'm mentioning either

Conveniently missing out that by d3 I was 100% cleared by the tracker.

[Dionysus]

I will be looking forward to your analysis on the next 17 pages and I'm curious how they will change your current opinions

I don't think they will really, but I'll let you know

You should read the rest of the game!

[Dionysus]

Still posting about me I see.

[Dionysus]

This is a quote from Dio in the other game. Seem familiar?

I'm not new to mafia but I am new to this site and I think my playstyle just doesn't gel because I feel like such a noob. Everything I say seems to be wrong and draws suspicion!

I'm normally very good I swear!

He isn't playing that card here: he's just trying to move everyobe and is rolling his eyes. Like i feel like he knows how scummy he is but is trying to get people to move on by callibg it old news.

I don't really feel like he's addressing the meat of the accusations against him

how can I do this when there isn't any meat. Your read on me is flimsy as fuck. You haven't pointed to anything in particular that I have said or done that is scummy apart from the dumb rvs mistake. Everything has been general opinions about how I don't seem to be solving the game, don't seem to be pushing any solid reads (wrong) etc. There is nothing there to argue against because telling me I don't seem to be solving the game isn't giving me anything to respond to. Show me where.

[Dionysus]

VoteCount 1.7

Empathice [ 3 ]

Black, dionysus kawaiikame

Dionysus [ 2 ]

skitter30, empathice

Herta (SE) [ 1 ]

Hadriaaan

patchwork [ 1 ]

BluebloodedToffee

Not Voting [ 2 ]

Herta, Patchwork,

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline:(expired on 2023-02-28 21:26:00)

No tips or tricks this time. Your mod is exhausted.

Hadriaaan has requested replacement and herta has been prodded.

VOTE: Dionysus

If I'm right, then Black and Kawaii need to change their votes.

BBT is convinced Dionysus is town, and patchwork won't hammer a partner.

I hope Hadriaan's replacement sees things the way I do.

You're wrong.

[Dionysus]

For me, my main scumreading yardstick/criterion is pushing other players, which patchwork has done none of. All of their content has been reactive.

Why aren't you voting patches then

[Dionysus]

For me, my main scumreading yardstick/criterion is pushing other players, which patchwork has done none of. All of their content has been reactive.

Why aren't you voting patches then

You had more votes when I came in

The real question is why aren't you, after you listed them as a scumread repeatedly?

Because since then empathice has been scummy af and patches gained some +town from me for their latest contributions

[Dionysus]

Oh dear Dio...

What

[Dionysus]

Empath scumreads: Dio and patch
Dio scumreads: Empath and kawaii

Both of these lists have one thing you agree with and one thing you don't. And you just admitted neither of them are solving. So it just seems like you're inconsistent with your reads and reasonings for them. Why are you sring Dio for things and not sring Empath for those exact same things?

This is outdated information BTW. Now it would be you/Dion although these reads are fundamentally linked.

This is a quote from Dio in the other game. Seem familiar?

I'm not new to mafia but I am new to this site and I think my playstyle just doesn't gel because I feel like such a noob. Everything I say seems to be wrong and draws suspicion!

I'm normally very good I swear!

He isn't playing that card here: he's just trying to move everyobe and is rolling his eyes. Like i feel like he knows how scummy he is but is trying to get people to move on by callibg it old news.

I don't really feel like he's addressing the meat of the accusations against him

how can I do this when there isn't any meat. Your read on me is flimsy as fuck. You haven't pointed to anything in particular that I have said or done that is scummy apart from the dumb rvs mistake. Everything has been general opinions about how I don't seem to be solving the game, don't seem to be pushing any solid reads (wrong) etc. There is nothing there to argue against because telling me I don't seem to be solving the game isn't giving me anything to respond to. Show me where.

Your RVS mistake could come from town easily. Your

explanation

for it can't at all.

what about mt explanation can't come from town?

[Dionysus]

Oh dear Dio...

What

What about patchwork's recent contributions was towny?

My problem with them was the same as yours. Lots of reactive stuff, a lot of fluff, no active hunting. I had to push hard for even a simple list of reads.

But since they have finally started to engage and actively give their thoughts on the game.

I'm not saying they're town lol. They're just not my first sr anymore.

[Dionysus]

Empath scumreads: Dio and patch
Dio scumreads: Empath and kawaii

Both of these lists have one thing you agree with and one thing you don't. And you just admitted neither of them are solving. So it just seems like you're inconsistent with your reads and reasonings for them. Why are you sring Dio for things and not sring Empath for those exact same things?

This is outdated information BTW. Now it would be you/Dion although these reads are fundamentally linked.

This is a quote from Dio in the other game. Seem familiar?

I'm not new to mafia but I am new to this site and I think my playstyle just doesn't gel because I feel like such a noob. Everything I say seems to be wrong and draws suspicion!

I'm normally very good I swear!

He isn't playing that card here: he's just trying to move everyobe and is rolling his eyes. Like i feel like he knows how scummy he is but is trying to get people to move on by callibg it old news.

I don't really feel like he's addressing the meat of the accusations against him

how can I do this when there isn't any meat. Your read on me is flimsy as fuck. You haven't pointed to anything in particular that I have said or done that is scummy apart from the dumb rvs mistake. Everything has been general opinions about how I don't seem to be solving the game, don't seem to be pushing any solid reads (wrong) etc. There is nothing there to argue against because telling me I don't seem to be solving the game isn't giving me anything to respond to. Show me where.

Your RVS mistake could come from town easily. Your

explanation

for it can't at all.

what about mt explanation can't come from town?

#156 and #182

I Already explained this in a concise manner.

Sorry but neither of these posts explain why my explanation can't come from a townie at all? In fact reading them I'm not sure you even understand what happened. So I'll explain it again:

I threw and dumb rvs vote on herta

I went to work

I came back after work and someone asked why I had voted herta

I couldn't remember if I had a reason

I scrolled and saw their post, thought it was scummy

I carelessly replied without giving it proper thought

Someone pointed out their intro came after my vote

I said oops, sorry was rvs

If I was scum and playing with a scum mindset, I guarantee you I WOULD NOT have been so careless. Because that would be DUMB.

[Dionysus]

Oh dear Dio...

What

What about patchwork's recent contributions was towny?

My problem with them was the same as yours. Lots of reactive stuff, a lot of fluff, no active hunting. I had to push hard for even a simple list of reads.

But since they have finally started to engage and actively give their thoughts on the game.

I'm not saying they're town lol. They're just not my first sr anymore.

This isn't an adequate explanation btw, I'll explain why later.

you mean you don't agree with me, which is fine.

But I'm telling you why I want to push emp instead. That's adequate enough.

[Dionysus]

Empath scumreads: Dio and patch
Dio scumreads: Empath and kawaii

Both of these lists have one thing you agree with and one thing you don't. And you just admitted neither of them are solving. So it just seems like you're inconsistent with your reads and reasonings for them. Why are you sring Dio for things and not sring Empath for those exact same things?

This is outdated information BTW. Now it would be you/Dion although these reads are fundamentally linked.

This is a quote from Dio in the other game. Seem familiar?

I'm not new to mafia but I am new to this site and I think my playstyle just doesn't gel because I feel like such a noob. Everything I say seems to be wrong and draws suspicion!

I'm normally very good I swear!

He isn't playing that card here: he's just trying to move everyobe and is rolling his eyes. Like i feel like he knows how scummy he is but is trying to get people to move on by callibg it old news.

I don't really feel like he's addressing the meat of the accusations against him

how can I do this when there isn't any meat. Your read on me is flimsy as fuck. You haven't pointed to anything in particular that I have said or done that is scummy apart from the dumb rvs mistake. Everything has been general opinions about how I don't seem to be solving the game, don't seem to be pushing any solid reads (wrong) etc. There is nothing there to argue against because telling me I don't seem to be solving the game isn't giving me anything to respond to. Show me where.

Your RVS mistake could come from town easily. Your

explanation

for it can't at all.

what about mt explanation can't come from town?

#156 and #182

I Already explained this in a concise manner.

Sorry but neither of these posts explain why my explanation can't come from a townie at all? In fact reading them I'm not sure you even understand what happened. So I'll explain it again:

I threw and dumb rvs vote on herta

I went to work

I came back after work and someone asked why I had voted herta

I couldn't remember if I had a reason

I scrolled and saw their post, thought it was scummy

I carelessly replied without giving it proper thought

Someone pointed out their intro came after my vote

I said oops, sorry was rvs

If I was scum and playing with a scum mindset, I guarantee you I WOULD NOT have been so careless. Because that would be DUMB.

My point is that if you were town

you would not be so careless about your solving

.

.........


I don't have words

[Dionysus]

My point is that if you were town you would not be so careless about your solving.

Town can be careless about their solving, I don't see how dio was, please point that out to me

#14 RVS votes Herta.

#38 says the vote is because Herta's entrance is scummy.

#42 This original explanation is fine.

#65 They change it to them having created the SR after being questioned. In other words according to this explanation Dion did not think Herta's vote was scummy until after being asked but instantly formed a read on them when asked.

The only way Dion is town is if #65 was a mistake on their part and that is unlikely because it exists to correct a mistake.

I'm now quite sure you don't even know what happened here.

My vote on herta came before their intro. My explanation in #42 was never fine because my vote on them was placed before their scummy entrance. That's what the mistake was. Did you know this?

[Dionysus]

My point is that if you were town you would not be so careless about your solving.

Town can be careless about their solving, I don't see how dio was, please point that out to me

#14 RVS votes Herta.

#38 says the vote is because Herta's entrance is scummy.

#42 This original explanation is fine.

#65 They change it to them having created the SR after being questioned. In other words according to this explanation Dion did not think Herta's vote was scummy until after being asked but instantly formed a read on them when asked.

The only way Dion is town is if #65 was a mistake on their part and that is unlikely because it exists to correct a mistake.

I'm now quite sure you don't even know what happened here.

My vote on herta came before their intro. My explanation in #42 was never fine because my vote on them was placed before their scummy entrance. That's what the mistake was. Did you know this?

Yes I know this and your explanation in #42 was fine.

42 and 65 are the same? Just one has more detail? I didn't change anything

[Dionysus]

My point is that if you were town you would not be so careless about your solving.

Have you explained how dio was careless about their solving outside of making a mistake in rvs? If you did I didn't see it

Other than say they earnestly try and solve the game during rvs no

[Dionysus]

VOTE: herta

Why you vote herta?

their entrance is scummy

Herta didn't even go into the game at the point you voted them...

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oh you're right haha.

OK I'll revise my answer to it was rvs but now I think their entrance was scummy

you misremembered what exactly?

When asked why I voted for herta, I couldn't remember what my reasons were so I scrolled to see what their posts were. I saw their intro, thought it was scummy and replied with that.

In what world are these posts contradictory

[Dionysus]

VOTE: herta

Why you vote herta?

their entrance is scummy

Herta didn't even go into the game at the point you voted them...

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oh you're right haha.

OK I'll revise my answer to it was rvs but now I think their entrance was scummy

you misremembered what exactly?

When asked why I voted for herta, I couldn't remember what my reasons were so I scrolled to see what their posts were. I saw their intro, thought it was scummy and replied with that.

In what world are these posts contradictory

Maybe not. The point is that you conflating your read on Herta with your vote on Herta is fine but generating a read on Herta on demand signifies that you don't care about actually solving.

..... It was page 2

[Dionysus]

Skitter can you please now concede that empathice is full of it? Their push on me is based on me generating a read of herta on demand on PAGE 2 and that being indicative of a scum mindset not actually interested in solving the game. They accept my explanation for the mistake is fine. This is why they have been obsessively pushing me the whole game.

Are you for real

[Dionysus]

Skitter can you please now concede that empathice is full of it? Their push on me is based on me generating a read of herta on demand on PAGE 2 and that being indicative of a scum mindset not actually interested in solving the game. They accept my explanation for the mistake is fine. This is why they have been obsessively pushing me the whole game.

Are you for real

Uh i found that sequence of events scummy for the same reason so

For the same reason? Emp isn't scumreading me because they think the mistake was ai. They are scumreading me because they think me producing a read on demand shows lack of interest or conviction in scumhunting. On page 2. You aren't scumreading me for that are you?

[Dionysus]

It. Was. Page. 2.

Jesus.

And you townread patches after 100+ of literally not solving.

[Dionysus]

Furtive 734 is literally an explanation for why I don't want to vote patchwork just now. I think their latter engagement is more townie than their earlier stuff. Why is that weird idgi

[Dionysus]

Furtive 734 is literally an explanation for why I don't want to vote patchwork just now. I think their latter engagement is more townie than their earlier stuff. Why is that weird idgi

You 'don't townread them', you said.

does that mean I have to vote for them

Serious question

Because "I don't townread" them can mean a few different things between "null" and "scumread"

I know you know this

[Dionysus]

Furtive 734 is literally an explanation for why I don't want to vote patchwork just now. I think their latter engagement is more townie than their earlier stuff. Why is that weird idgi

You 'don't townread them', you said.

does that mean I have to vote for them

Serious question

Because "I don't townread" them can mean a few different things between "null" and "scumread"

I know you know this

Right, but your explanation for your progression on them was so weak that you had to back out and go 'I don't townread them'. That's the point I'm making

I only added that because I thought you thought I had done a 180 on them when I haven't.

[Dionysus]

HOLY SHIT FURTIVEGLANCE!!! HI!!

This tone is going to change when patch finds out furtive srs them lol

not really, i think they're cool so i'll probably be more respectful that i was with dion

(Also patch I misgendered you on accident a little bit ago and I just want to say I'm sorry and I'll do better)

it's good! thank you for apologizing!

Rude

[Dionysus]

Rude

yeah

Maybe if I had my current poketeam in my signature you'd have been a bit more respectful

[Dionysus]

Oh hey bewolkt!

[Dionysus]

Dio is probably just newtown here

dio has said they've played 10+ gam,es on other sites.....

You're confusing Dion with me. I Said I've played ~10 games. Dion has definitely played on other sites, probably as much as me or more.

Yeah I'm not a total noob.

The difficulty I keep having here is that this site clearly has things that it thinks that is weird that other platforms I play on do as standard. For example the way some players have fixated on some of my votes in this game just doesn't happen on any other sites I play on. Also in the last game I played with Skitter I made the mistake of saying I don't think rvs is very helpful for me in solving the game because apparently that is also scummy (I have ptsd from defending myself there lol).

Just different ~culture I guess but my style is still adapting to the way things are done here.

[Dionysus]

patches gained some +town from me for their latest contributions

so ur activity reading me

I don't know what this means

[Dionysus]

STOP ITS HAPPENING AGAIN

patches gained some +town from me for their latest contributions

so ur activity reading me

I don't know what this means

in your post saying that you thi=ought i was town the main reason was because i made a lot of posts ??

No?

[Dionysus]

Heya

skitter would you be willing to vote patchwork today or are they too wholesome

I'm willing to switch back to patch because they have slipped into how they posted earlier and aren't scumhunting

[Dionysus]

No?

the first one

Idk what you're saying

I wasn't townreading you for a start

And any +town points you got was for content not quantity

[Dionysus]

i don't think i was even doign anything before lol

Well exactly.

You had about 10 posts which showed you were analysing the game from my pov and now you've gone back to fluff posting and making excuses for you don't have any anything solid after 34 pages. It's nonsense.

OK I am going to vote patches but want to check vote count first because if I'm putting them at e-1 i want to make that clear

[Dionysus]

VOTE: patchwork

[Dionysus]

Think that's e-2

[Dionysus]

no idea if everyone voting me genuinely thinks im scummy or if there's just maf trying to get an easy elimination but like... i don't really care it'll be funny if you guys hammer me

If you are town, show us

[Dionysus]

You clearly have time rn to make a lot of posts. You don't need to reply to everything. Solve the game with us

[Dionysus]

I don't even know where your reads are at now or if they have changed since your initial read list

[Dionysus]

no idea if everyone voting me genuinely thinks im scummy or if there's just maf trying to get an easy elimination but like... i don't really care it'll be funny if you guys hammer me

If you are town, show us

how
haven't i literally stated i'm shit at scumhunting and i'm unsure of who i should properly scumread

You said you are better at gutreads. Well we're nearly 40 pages in, you should have some by now

[Dionysus]

also im confused because
literally what about my recent posting just fluffpostign and excuses
i was responding to posts as i caught up, which is... exactly what i was doing before

@black idk i just haven't been paying much attention to them (and are those contradictions explicitly scummy, from your eyes?)

You spend too much time replying to near enough every post which is not necessary. You can just reply to the important ones and then spend time trying to solve the game

[Dionysus]

So for me the scum are within patch, Emp and kawaii.

Patch - they're not trying to solve. Don't really want to go over this again.
Emp - tunnelling and refusing to look elsewhere is not trying to solve. Their reason for scumreading me is dumb as shit. I can't explain how ridiculous I think it is to condemn someone as scum for "not trying to solve" on page 2. Then there was the pr hunting. I don't particularly sr them for their own inconsistency although I do hope they acknowledge it and reflect.
Kawaii - my had a soft sr on them earlier in the game for mostly asking a lot of questions without making any pushes of their own. This is scummy behaviour imo. They went to null after a big post of theirs on response to this but they've slipped back down with their hardcore buddying/pocketing of black. And I do agree that the "town and tunneling" comment may have been a slip

[Dionysus]

Why are u so convinced they're scum again?

No scumhunting. No scumreads. No pushing. No posting without being prompted/asked something.

lol ok

He's literally rifjt

[Dionysus]

Right*

[Dionysus]

So why should we townread you

[Dionysus]

Kawaii - my had a soft sr on them earlier in the game for mostly asking a lot of questions without making any pushes of their own. This is scummy behaviour imo. They went to null after a big post of theirs on response to this but they've slipped back down with their hardcore buddying/pocketing of black. And I do agree that the "town and tunneling" comment may have been a slip

I like this read on me, especially buddying/pocketing black, something ignited in my mind when engaging w/ Black vs. Emp when Emp didn't make any sense to me, feel we think a lot alike at least in the moment when in tune on the same wavelength, felt inspired

I felt someone would see this like mindedness as buddying, you made my feeling reality

You know what I'm gonna say to this post right

[Dionysus]

You know what I'm gonna say to this post right

Silence scum?

No?

That I'm gonna say it is buddying/pocketing

[Dionysus]

Woke up and patch/kawaii is looking good this morning. Outside shot of emp.

[Dionysus]

46 pages and patches still hasn't produced anything of substance...

[Dionysus]

Reminder: agreement or disagreement with a read or push is not a good reason to townread or scumread someone

[Dionysus]

Can you talk me through your gut read bewolkt? Assuming it is bit based on the rvs mistake at the start of the game

[Dionysus]

i rely on gutreads and then analysis on those players

Give full gutreads/analysis now

i mean analysis as in isos but i mean i guess i can gloss over people's play
trs
black - biggest obvtown in the game. i agree with her on a lot of things, i like the way she posts, and while the way she defends dion could be percieved as w/w, i think she's just definitely town. the way she goes after empathice feels very genuine and is actively trying to avoid tunneling, which is +town for that
furtive/herta: liked herta's vibes, furtive launches into the game with commentary on the first ten pages, active-posts, and then does the next ten pages. feels very active. tunneling, which is annoying, but at least they're interacting with other slots, so it's not explicitly anti-town (because they're just making a strong push)
kawaii: less than furtive. idk why but mostly because of the whole buddying thing with black. still towny though

null
hadrian/replacement newbie: can't say much about hadrian's replacement, but hadrian obviously didn't post much. but i feel like i liked their posting more than bbt's, and they weren't pretending to be active at the very least. also, hadrian vibed with me. maybe it was because he liked pokeyman
bbt - not townier than hadrian :/ they're barely more active than them and then act like they're more active, and i haven't seen a post from them in ages. they feel towny, but it's weighed down from the lack of recent posting or interaction. so a solid null, splat in the middle.
skitter: unsure how to read them, they've been fluctuating a lot. scumread them at first and then townread, but i'm unsure how to get a grasp on their play so

scum
dion: seems to want to solve but also isn't really doing that? i'm a hypocrite tho. main reason he's down here is because he keeps fluctuating and there's too many nulls, and while i see some of their posts as towny others are... less so. it's less because of gameplay and more that, to me, something feels really off. can't put my finger on it though
empath: see entire empath scumcase written by black. especially the masons thing. wtf is that. basically just pr hunting on day one with no reason as to why. the explanation is "i didn't want to waste my hunting" like ??? if dion is mason he's gonna claim when he's at e-1 and close to elimination, not fucking now

You mean this?

This analysis is all mostly repackaged stuff others have said already. You don't have any original thoughts.

[Dionysus]

Can you talk me through your gut read bewolkt? Assuming it is bit based on the rvs mistake at the start of the game

Not really. I already mentioned that I'm not sure how to take the mistake since I also think that you as scum would have been more careful than just throwing a reason.

What makes me suspect of you is that in the previous game we played you didn't want to base the discussion on fluffs and give reads early on (which is perfectly fine imo) but now I come into this game and see posts like the ones below. It isn't what I would have expected from you and your gameplay in general feels very different than you as town in the other game which makes me think you might be scum this time

Why was their entrance scummy?

Dropping in with "hello" and nothing else, not voting or acknowledging any other posts.

what do you think abt patchwork

I think town. Their focus on irrelevant things like gender identity or sexual orientation is too weird for that to be how scum opens imo.

Take a second and think what might have happened in the last game that has encouraged me to make posts like that

Besides, my opinion on RVS hasn't changed. I have said as much in this thread already (can't find the post but it is there).

[Dionysus]

@bewolkt

Found the posts - there are two of them.

I still don't like RVS. I think it is stupid. Skitter and Empathice's tunnels of me largely triggered by RVS content is the perfect example to show why.

However after the last game I tried a different approach, which clearly hasn't fucking worked because it has produced even worse tunnelling than that game and has also led to you having a bad metaread on me.

Yeah I'm not a total noob.

The difficulty I keep having here is that this site clearly has things that it thinks that is weird that other platforms I play on do as standard. For example the way some players have fixated on some of my votes in this game just doesn't happen on any other sites I play on.

Also in the last game I played with Skitter I made the mistake of saying I don't think rvs is very helpful for me in solving the game because apparently that is also scummy (I have ptsd from defending myself there lol).

Just different ~culture I guess but my style is still adapting to the way things are done here.

#131 - I *do* agree with what is posted here, though. I have come undone as town in previous games over stupid stuff that has happened in RVS. I have witnessed other town players come undone over stupid RVS stuff. I have myself tunnelled on town players over stupid RVS stuff. This is why I don't love the stage (which skitter knows). But it's not for me to tell others how to play the game!

[Dionysus]

like ok i guess i'm sorry that my reads line up with other people's, does that mean i'm automatically "repackaging" other people's reads and sheeping them or what??? like r you kidding me... like i fluffpost, you don't like that, when i challenge other people's points you don't like that, when i make bad readlists you don't like it, when i provide actual analysis you don't like it. what the fuck do you want from me lmao
anyways bewolkt is town

I want you to actually make an effort to try and solve the game. 200 posts later and you have still barely tried. Your reads are all pretty weak/non-existent and yes while this post has more detail, it all seems mostly sheeped to me. I might be wrong there, but that's my impression. You don't need to write long posts of analysis.

[Dionysus]

like idk what it is with you dion but when i was catching up i responded to every post and provided commentayr and challenged empath and skitter and stuff and you liked that at first so i kept doing it but apparently the second time i do it it's inherently scummy and i'm just making up excuses for myself??????? like what.

You're right I did like this, but you fell back into fluff posting when you came back later.

But I said to you yesterday that you don't need to reply to every single post or give a running commentary of your thoughts.

In fact, I would say that doing this is fine if your thoughts are valuable/trying to solve the game, but they mostly aren't. Like all game you have made pretty much the least effort save for maybe the lurk slots and have tried to explain it away with excuses that don't really hold up to scrutiny.

[Dionysus]

like ok i guess i'm sorry that my reads line up with other people's, does that mean i'm automatically "repackaging" other people's reads and sheeping them or what??? like r you kidding me... like i fluffpost, you don't like that, when i challenge other people's points you don't like that, when i make bad readlists you don't like it, when i provide actual analysis you don't like it. what the fuck do you want from me lmao
anyways bewolkt is town

I want you to actually make an effort to try and solve the game. 200 posts later and you have still barely tried. Your reads are all pretty weak/non-existent and yes while this post has more detail, it all seems mostly sheeped to me. I might be wrong there, but that's my impression. You don't need to write long posts of analysis.

my vote is literally on empath and they haven't reacted one bit
the entire game is focused on ME ME ME right now and you're so fucking pissed at me for defending myself LIKE CAN PEOPLE JUST PIVOT OFF OF ME SO I CAN DO HWA TYOU WANT

Lolz I'm not pissed at you.

You've had 46 pages to try and solve the game. It hasn't been all about you the entire time. Stop making excuses.

[Dionysus]

Here's 3 with pretty minimal scrolling

Can someone else comment on Dionysus/patchwork interactions please? I'm fairly sure that's the team. They have each other as scumleans consistently, yet seem weirdly resistant to voting each other

when it matters

.

Then there's their actual interactions, which always seem to have a jokey tone even if they're seemingly quite antagonistic.

i was going to say that i no longer disliked him but i took the hit for the sake of comedy

That's against the rules

wasn't serious

I'm pretty sure patchwork is scumclaiming. There's no way they flip town

Inb4 they flip town

There's no way.

what if i hammered myself right now

[Dionysus]

and that means my posts with actual substance are nullified by the horrible fluffposting???

I don't see any substantive posts trying to solve the game. I see lots of posts reacting to things others have said. I don't see any pushes of your own. Like you think empath is scum but where is the push?

[Dionysus]

Take a second and think what might have happened in the last game that has encouraged me to make posts like that

Besides, my opinion on RVS hasn't changed. I have said as much in this thread already (can't find the post but it is there).

I remember well what happened but I still don't see why would you change your game then

. You received heat especially from one player, you defended yourself well which gave you a good amount of cred (imo) and at the end of the day the player that tunnelled on you was voted out by the rest. A loss from the point of view of the game because in the end it was town vs town but I think you can see it as a validation of your gameplay.

So what should I get here? You didn't really think what you expressed on those initial posts?

Also I feel that in this game you have been trying to move the conversation away from you by just trying to push other players, which I also don't think you did on the previous game. Do you agree with this? And if so, was that also an concious attempt?

But I want to stress that his is not about your early game RVS but the fact that I see a very different way of playing than when I saw you playing as town

is this a serious question? Because it should be quite self explanatory. I ended up main character of day 1 of that game because I said I didn't like rvs so this game I decided to actually engage in rvs.

I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth. I engaged in good faith.

Yes because I'm town and I think there is scum in patches/emp/kawaii. I don't see why this would be suspicious? The objective of the game is generally to move heat from you onto players you think are scum. Besides the push on me is based on nonsense imo.

And to your last point I disagree with that but what I would say is that we have only played together once which is, uh, not enough to have a firm metaread on someone. I'm sure you agree.

[Dionysus]

Them being extremely lazy doesn't match with their wallpost that explained why they weren't giving reads either

burnout =/= laziness, get it fucking right

I also don't think burnout really tracks with you having by a country mile the most activity? When I'm feeling burnt out I just don't post lol

[Dionysus]

Bewolkt's defence of Patch seems odd as if they anticipated that Patch was the main wagon and even why maybe?

Can you point me to a specific post that makes you think this? I didn't pick up on it but want to see if I feel the same.

[Dionysus]

VOTE: herta

Why you vote herta?

their entrance is scummy

Herta didn't even go into the game at the point you voted them...

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^ I've fos dio since this, this set off the chain reaction of dio being pursued most of the game by empath, I was the catalyst, skitter was the igniter, empath was the pursuer, initially I thought skitter/dio dialogue was town vs. mafia/mafia vs. town based on feeling, eventually being dissuaded that feeling alone is sufficient enough to believe dio is mafia though the relentless pursuit on dio kept him fos in the back of my mind while simultaneously feeling bad 4 dio, being the "main character" of the DP, I didn't find it productive to town to be hyperfocused on dio...now dio is making patch the "main character", pursuing patch relentlessly like empath did to dio, saying patch contributes nothing in 46 pages of dp...dio was pursued because of the way he plays, now dio is pursuing patch because of the way they play, I feel dio would be empathetic to patch no, 0, doesn't make sense to me

The playstyle critiques against me are coming from two players who I've played with once before and they are making a direct comparison to that game. That's the basis of their "playstyle" reads. I've never played with patches and they don't have any games here we can look to for meta either, so I don't think these things are comparable. I've also never cited playstyle as a reason for my sr on patches, unlike Skitter and bewolkt with me.

[Dionysus]

VOTE: herta

Why you vote herta?

their entrance is scummy

Herta didn't even go into the game at the point you voted them...

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^ I've fos dio since this, this set off the chain reaction of dio being pursued most of the game by empath, I was the catalyst, skitter was the igniter, empath was the pursuer, initially I thought skitter/dio dialogue was town vs. mafia/mafia vs. town based on feeling, eventually being dissuaded that feeling alone is sufficient enough to believe dio is mafia though the relentless pursuit on dio kept him fos in the back of my mind while simultaneously feeling bad 4 dio, being the "main character" of the DP, I didn't find it productive to town to be hyperfocused on dio...now dio is making patch the "main character", pursuing patch relentlessly like empath did to dio, saying patch contributes nothing in 46 pages of dp...dio was pursued because of the way he plays, now dio is pursuing patch because of the way they play, I feel dio would be empathetic to patch no, 0, doesn't make sense to me

It's let you experience what I experienced in place of let me stop you experiencing what I experienced, victim - bully mindset in place of an empathetic mindset

also this is an... extreme and quite ungenerous interpretation.

[Dionysus]

also this is an... extreme and quite ungenerous interpretation.

Maybe I'm going too far with saying you have a victim-bully mindset, you haven't been kind to patches tho, maybe it's you being real

What is unkind about pushing someone I think is scum? I mean I don't think patches has been especially kind to anyone tbf. I think they've been quite rude most of the game, actually! So not sure why I'm being singled out here.

Could be that I just think they're scum, maybe?

[Dionysus]

The mafia are the victims in this game.

dio/patches had/have victim mindsets...

I Should probably look at Dion again but my 0% tunnel accuracy is foreboding.

Low odds, Idk how much stake you should put into %s,

but since you looking into Dion again maybe I should too

Why? You know you can push whoever you like and don't need to be guided by other players, right?

[Dionysus]

Why don't you reconsider patches

[Dionysus]

OK I am gonna potentially he a bit of a hypocrite, but as patches' other game has just ended we can now acknowledge it. In 2112 patches was town and their ISO is here: viewtopic.php?t=90446&user_select%5B%5D=36976

They are clearly trying to solve the game from the beginning in a way that they just haven't in this game yet and it is page 52. Like this is not a question of playstyle at all. Their style is very similar in both games. But in one they are hunting scum and in this one they're not.

[Dionysus]

Why don't you reconsider patches

Why do you feel patches is scum?

are you seriously asking me this

[Dionysus]

OK I am gonna potentially he a bit of a hypocrite, but as patches' other game has just ended we can now acknowledge it. In 2112 patches was town and their ISO is here: viewtopic.php?t=90446&user_select%5B%5D=36976

They are clearly trying to solve the game from the beginning in a way that they just haven't in this game yet and it is page 52. Like this is not a question of playstyle at all. Their style is very similar in both games. But in one they are hunting scum and in this one they're not.

0nly skimming they pushing/being aggro as town when in this game they heavily defensive, I see what you mean, feels opposite

Haven't read fully myself yet either lol (literally just noticed the game was over when I made my post) but they did more to hunt scum in their first 20 or so posts than they've done in nearly 250 here.

[Dionysus]

Meta reads are not flawless. Patches could still be town, and I know what it is like to struggle to form reads as a townie and feel like you're sinking as a result, but... I don't think I ever regressed in that regard once I got into my groove as a townie. Patches is clearly capable of hunting scum in a way they have said they aren't good in this game. Doesn't make sense. More likely they flip scum imo.

[Dionysus]

what do you think abt patchwork

I think town. Their focus on irrelevant things like gender identity or sexual orientation is too weird for that to be how scum opens imo.

My initial read, so what?

[Dionysus]

what do you think abt patchwork

I think town. Their focus on irrelevant things like gender identity or sexual orientation is too weird for that to be how scum opens imo.

My initial read, so what?

You weren't in the game you're referencing so it doesn't mean anything.

Probably bewolkt/skitter for their partner.

Wdym

[Dionysus]

Thought I'd have woken up to a night start but instead I wake up to this.

It's patchwork guys. Look at that other game's ISO. A thrown together case of bbt on page 55 doesn't change that.

[Dionysus]

Also I invite furtive to re-read my ISO in the recently completed mini-normal I just played with him where I am having fun with it if he thinks that makes me scummy here viewtopic.php?t=90432&user_select%5B%5D=36930

Weird tho that furtive has ignored this and only referenced my completed newbie games tho.

Still, patch is my main push.

[Dionysus]

Also I invite furtive to re-read my ISO in the recently completed mini-normal I just played with him where I am having fun with it if he thinks that makes me scummy here viewtopic.php?t=90432&user_select%5B%5D=36930

Weird tho that furtive has ignored this and only referenced my completed newbie games tho.

Still, patch is my main push.

We aren't allowed to reference ongoing games so I hadn't mentioned it.

The game was over by the time you made this post tho:

Furtive can you give reasons for finding Dion scum?

Wasn't the minimal case you provided largely linked to Patch also being scum?

That was my mindset at the time and it probably showed but no, it wasn't a conditional read. Dionysus is individually scummy and playing differently to past towngames (e.g. 2110). I think I've said this before.

So you could have mentioned it or considered if you wanted.

[Dionysus]

It's patch furtive, go with your gut.

[Dionysus]

I want everyone's thought's on bewolkt's entrance.

I get the sense he is trying to solve which I like, but I think his reads are a bit weird and his reasons inconsistent. That isn't necessarily scummy though. I just don't think patches is a player that should be null at this point. I also don't think kawaii null is very sensible either. But again that isn't necessarily scummy.

I've been wondering if bewolkt/patches is feasible and I think bewolkt being so stalwart in patchwork being a bad lim but having them in a null slot doesn't track, especially when bewolkt clearly has no problem pushing other slots they view as null (bbt).

[Dionysus]

Bbt is 100% correct. 60 pages for day 1 is completely ridiculous and isn't remotely helpful for town because we have spent most of these 60 pages going in circles. It is to the point that previously active players who were away for a day or so are totally overwhelmed with the amount of content to read.

At this stage we need to go ahead with an elimination and start afresh tomorrow.

[Dionysus]

I want everyone's thought's on bewolkt's entrance.

I get the sense he is trying to solve which I like, but I think his reads are a bit weird and his reasons inconsistent. That isn't necessarily scummy though. I just don't think patches is a player that should be null at this point. I also don't think kawaii null is very sensible either. But again that isn't necessarily scummy.

I've been wondering if bewolkt/patches is feasible and I think bewolkt being so stalwart in patchwork being a bad lim but having them in a null slot doesn't track, especially when bewolkt clearly has no problem pushing other slots they view as null (bbt).

What's your definition of null? I never used that word and I get the sense that you might be applying here some logic that I did not use
And I was clear that my view of patch/kawaii is different from my view of bbt so I wouldn't group them together

in your reads post you grouped patch as "unsure" and bbt as "could go either way". Whether you want to attribute the word null to either of these doesn't matter, but "unsure" and "could go either way" are different ways of saying the same thing. At least in the context of trying to figure out someone's alignment. I don't think it is very consistent to argue against a patch lim as you have while being happy to push a vote on bbt who is just one slot below patch on your reads.

[Dionysus]

Bbt is 100% correct. 60 pages for day 1 is completely ridiculous and isn't remotely helpful for town because we have spent most of these 60 pages going in circles. It is to the point that previously active players who were away for a day or so are totally overwhelmed with the amount of content to read.

At this stage we need to go ahead with an elimination and start afresh tomorrow.

I was gone for a day and came back to 15 pages, and feel rather out of it now

Yes, I know. Which is why I think we need to stop farting about and just eliminate someone.

[Dionysus]

Why am I the only one that thinks more discussion helps the Town?

You're not. But we have reached a point where the discussion is just circular and going nowhere which is not particularly helpful.

[Dionysus]

hi nerds im alive

Claim pls

[Dionysus]

What e-x is patch at?

E-1 iirc

[Dionysus]

Patch it is time to claim

[Dionysus]

Kawaii, hammer

[Dionysus]

rip
bye guys, sorry for sucking this game

Dw, I'd like to play with you again

Me too!!

[Dionysus]

Pls just hammer this is ridiculous

[Dionysus]

Guys, patches has already claimed. Atp pursuing someone else is anti-town because they will have to claim as well if they come close to a lim which will help the scum narrow down the PRs. This is not actually helpful atp.

[Dionysus]

Guys, patches has already claimed. Atp pursuing someone else is anti-town because they will have to claim as well if they come close to a lim which will help the scum narrow down the PRs. This is not actually helpful atp.

Do you think the VT claim makes patches more or less likely to be a wolf?

It means that if they are town then we won't accidentally eliminate a PR. It doesn't make them any more or less likely to he town or scum.

[Dionysus]

I actually thought that comment was scummy

@kawaii even tho we have the time given the length of day1 i think we should wrap it up, get a flip, and start afresh tomorrow

Why is it on kawaii to hammer? Isn't your vote still on me? You can hammer yourself

[Dionysus]

I just... Don't see the point in this? This ISO analysis can happen on day 2. It's unlikely to change anything today.

[Dionysus]

Same

[Dionysus]

If patch flips town there is definitely scum in black/kawaii/Bewolkt.

[Dionysus]

If patch flips town there is definitely scum in black/kawaii/Bewolkt.

How does this flip analysis make sense? Saving town = not being town? What?

If patches flips town then they necessarily have to be hammered, so I'm not assuming saving town = scum. That would indeed be ridiculous. What I'm assuming is the patch lim will go through, but only after days of visible handwringing in an attempt to gain town cred *if* they flip town.

I guess I just don't see the point of this. The chances of a successful pivot atp is so low that holding back on hammering is no longer pro town. It is the very definition of performative.

[Dionysus]

If patch flips town there is definitely scum in black/kawaii/Bewolkt.

Why am I scumreading this?

He listed two very towny people as potential scum. Also he suddenly pivoted on me with no reason.

And he's talking about what happens if Patch flips town to look good when they flip scum probably but that's not a reason for a scumread.

I didn't suddenly pivot on you. But I really liked your self-reflection on your poor read on me and your scumhunting has improved vastly since you started looking outside of a pool of one.

But just to clarify (thought this was obvious but maybe not) I'm not saying both scum are in those three and I'm also not saying any scum are definitely there. I just think this handwringing is so weird and performative that if patches is Town then one of them is definitely scum taking a chance to get towncred for pushing back against a town lim.

[Dionysus]

Also I assume that one of the two "very townie" people is kawaii. I totally disagree that kawaii is very townie.

[Dionysus]

If patch flips town there is definitely scum in black/kawaii/Bewolkt.

I'm not saying both scum are in those three and I'm also not saying any scum are definitely there

?

yeah, you're right. "if patches flips town there is scum in x/y/z" is totally the same as saying "there is definitely scum in x/y/z 100%"

[Dionysus]

Dio I think your timeline is a little messy. The Empathice wagon had legit steam and then suddenly a patch counterwagon popped up out of nowhere. I'm not going to just jump from someone I SR to someone who I somewhat TR because a few people are bored with the game and don't want to play anymore. I wasn't here for a lot of the weekend so it's not like I was purposefully avoiding a hammer or "handwringing". Like it's cool if you are so sure about your patch read but you can't blame other people for not sharing that read with you

Lol relax you are not the one I would go for.

[Dionysus]

If patch flips town there is definitely scum in black/kawaii/Bewolkt.

How does this flip analysis make sense? Saving town = not being town? What?

If patches flips town then they necessarily have to be hammered, so I'm not assuming saving town = scum. That would indeed be ridiculous. What I'm assuming is the patch lim will go through, but only after days of visible handwringing in an attempt to gain town cred *if* they flip town.

I guess I just don't see the point of this. The chances of a successful pivot atp is so low that holding back on hammering is no longer pro town. It is the very definition of performative.

I feel you fundamentally misunderstand what's happening, the push to vote patches feels like they being scapegoated by the mafia, mainly waiting on skitter to come back and decide what she wants to do with the vote

This sounds informed

[Dionysus]

I also find it interesting that you're not including skitter in this mix. You only singled out the 3 people voting for Empathice

Skitter has been mostly absent from this discussion which is why I haven't included her here.

[Dionysus]

I also find it interesting that you're not including skitter in this mix. You only singled out the 3 people voting for Empathice

Skitter has been mostly absent from this discussion which is why I haven't included her here.

Do you think her being absent from the discussion means she's more likely to be town? Or did you just forget about her?

I didn't forget her, nor do I think her silence here indicates anything.

[Dionysus]

If patch flips town there is definitely scum in black/kawaii/Bewolkt.

How does this flip analysis make sense? Saving town = not being town? What?

If patches flips town then they necessarily have to be hammered, so I'm not assuming saving town = scum. That would indeed be ridiculous. What I'm assuming is the patch lim will go through, but only after days of visible handwringing in an attempt to gain town cred *if* they flip town.

I guess I just don't see the point of this. The chances of a successful pivot atp is so low that holding back on hammering is no longer pro town. It is the very definition of performative.

I feel you fundamentally misunderstand what's happening, the push to vote patches feels like they being scapegoated by the mafia, mainly waiting on skitter to come back and decide what she wants to do with the vote

This sounds informed

How tf does it sound informed? Tell me everything I've done this game that sounds informed

You told me that I didn't understand what was happening and that the patches push is a scum scapegoat.

I also find it interesting that you're not including skitter in this mix. You only singled out the 3 people voting for Empathice

Skitter has been mostly absent from this discussion which is why I haven't included her here.

Do you think her being absent from the discussion means she's more likely to be town? Or did you just forget about her?

skitter seems to be forgotten in this game...

More importantly Dion's explanation is weird considering skitter isn't voting me.

explain

[Dionysus]

I didn't forget her, nor do I think her silence here indicates anything.

But you don't think she could be scum like the 3 of us? That's an incredibly weird stance to take considering she has also been toying with the idea of voting patch but has not done so yet. What separates the 3 of us from her in your mind other than we are voting for Empathice and she isn't?

It's not weird. Re-read my posts and see how I have described this meandering. It doesn't apply to skitter.

[Dionysus]

69 pages and still we go.

Good stuff. Good stuff.

It's exhausting

[Dionysus]

[Dionysus]

I was very frustrated with how the end of d1 played and I agree with skitter that the bewolkt nk is a choice I don't understand. But I want to come into this day with a fresh head and reevaluate the game as I think I got quite tunnelled at the end there.

[Dionysus]

Black surviving the night is pretty suspicious but that is probably scum's intent

[Dionysus]

I was very frustrated with how the end of d1 played and I agree with skitter that the bewolkt nk is a choice I don't understand. But I want to come into this day with a fresh head and reevaluate the game as I think I got quite tunnelled at the end there.

hi dio
who was tunneling you

I mean I felt like I was tunneling you lol.

[Dionysus]

Patch i sr you a lot tbh

Black is town, and so is bbt

Why the switch?

[Dionysus]

The one I want to pursue first today is definitely kawaii.

[Dionysus]

tbh my intention with voting empath was to set up me and empath as two counterwagons and get some good info out of it but then bbt ruined it with that quickhammer and i'm still pretty mad about that
ugh and kawaii has basically been pocketing black this entire game but i can't tell if it's just t/t or t/w because the former is so much more common, two town agreeing heavily isn't uncommon

Kawaii has not just been pocketing black. I think literally their every move was sheeped from someone else? No thoughts of their own

VOTE: kawaii