Newbie 2113 - Shea it ain't So! | Game Over!

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: Herta because you're cute :3

VOTE: Black

[KawaiiKame]

hello all!

hello 0/

[KawaiiKame]

I've played in school/in forum

[KawaiiKame]

I've played in school/in forum

You played mafia in school?

Yes in a philosophy/logic class

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: Dionysus

@kawaii why'd you vote Black?

Black voted Herta

[KawaiiKame]

And what do both of u think of dio?

0 opinion, why is dio being voted?

[KawaiiKame]

I read this like six times and i'm finding it v confusing for some reason

What do you find confusing?

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: Dionysus

@kawaii why'd you vote Black?

Black voted Herta

Why does that matter?

When I opened the game Black voting Herta was the thing I saw immediately

[KawaiiKame]

The vote caught my eye being the only thing I saw above me, I haven't seen anyone vote someone being cute b4

[KawaiiKame]

I'm trying to track if this sort of logic applies to dio for voting herta too

And no idea what's up with the herta thing

Idk who herta is/why they cute
What's significant is:
Why does dio have so many votes?
Why did dio vote herta?

[KawaiiKame]

Hello

Hello

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: herta

Why you vote herta?

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: herta

Why you vote herta?

their entrance is scummy

Herta didn't even go into the game at the point you voted them...

[viewtopic.php?p=13659752#p13659752][/14]
[viewtopic.php?p=13660000#p13660000][/20]

[KawaiiKame]

it was rvs

rvs?

[KawaiiKame]

it was rvs

0kay Ik the concept b4 knowing the name, I thought that was why Black voted herata
If it was rvs why didn't you say it was initially?

[KawaiiKame]

Dropping in with "hello" and nothing else, not voting or acknowledging any other posts.

Saying hello alone is p null to me, Idk why they didn't say anything to be voted by Black

[KawaiiKame]

Dion has so many votes because they're scum.

Why? How do you know?

[KawaiiKame]

The reasoning behind the Herta vote is actually interesting now though.

What do you make of the reasoning?

[KawaiiKame]

I don't think scum would be that careless

Scum can be that careless, I have

[KawaiiKame]

I'm not saying Dion is lock town by any means, but given that he already had three votes and there are two of you already pushing that angle, I feel that would be an easy 'in' for scum to come into the game with so I'm backing off.

Exactly why I'm not voting dio, 0 benefit to ending this day so soon

[KawaiiKame]

The fact Dion took the time to go through Herta's ISO to try and justify the vote and came up with that explanation makes me think he is town. Town are much more careless about voting than scum are.

Potentially WIF0M, if the thinking is town is careless about voting then backtracking to vote with an explanation
It is noticeable that scum would be playing conservatively, anyone who hasn't voted besides herta?
Why do you believe patch is scum?

[KawaiiKame]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Herta

[KawaiiKame]

Hello

Wanna engage?

[KawaiiKame]

I didnt like the kawaii vote

Which vote?

MOD NOTE: Fixed quote tag.

[KawaiiKame]

kawaii what are your pronouns

I have 0, call me anything you want

[KawaiiKame]

i voted them because i thought they were buddying

Explain plz I'm lost

[KawaiiKame]

u voted some person (forgot who) "because they voted herta"

Black voted herta

[KawaiiKame]

chainsawing? chainsaw defending?

chainsaw man

[KawaiiKame]

i thought they were buddying

Explain

[KawaiiKame]

Skittles is giving me weird vibes for some reason.

What vibes?

[KawaiiKame]

UNVOTE:

[KawaiiKame]

I don't think Kawaii's vote was rvs but I could be wrong. Seems like they were serious?

The vote caught my eye being the only thing I saw above me, I haven't seen anyone vote someone being cute b4

It's a joke vote, taking notes

[KawaiiKame]

I feel like a wolf is more likely to build a case around inconsistencies in RVS, but I suppose you could also be an overzealous townie instead

skit is between an opportunistic scum/an overzealous townie
Want to make note skit only voted dio when pressured by hadrian in #111

[KawaiiKame]

Why we voting Patches?

[KawaiiKame]

maybe empathice/dio could be partners

Why empath/dio?

[KawaiiKame]

I'm having a procedure

Hope the procedure goes well

[KawaiiKame]

reading through their ISO in isolation, there is a lot of asking others questions about why they have done something or what they mean, but very little of their own thoughts. Not great for the poster with the second highest post count

I'm inquisitive by nature, even questioning my own reads, holding back my own thoughts

Black's post #120 is the basis of my reads, flipping town in my eyes initially with the detailed analysis

I feel Hadrian is town, good analysis/reads, I liked the pressuring skittle to vote

I'm enjoying the aggression of Empathice, I'm willing to pursue the dio vote in post #141 to see if Toffee flips powerwolf

I find the relationship between dio/skitter the most interesting, skitter pursuing dio feels like town pursuing mafia/mafia pursuing town, I'm divided with the philosophy of pursuing votes based on rvs slips/mistakes, if I take skitter's pursuit in good faith dio is most likely scum, if I take skitter's pursuit in bad faith then dio is most likely town, I believe you can scumhunt in any stage with rvs being the most nai, skitter definitely changed the game state with the dio vote

I like dio's read post, pressuring me to give my thoughts benefits town, same with town reading empathize despite pushing against dio, someone can be pro-town while pushing a town vote as dio noted

Black noted,
"Wolves are more than capable of these types of posts" - #199


This possibility exists, Empathice noted a possible Black-Dio mafia team, to me Black's analysis feels organically town, I see Black as being town while Dio can flip both ways, my view on Dio keeps changing constantly

I feel voting dio gives the most info in the flip
VOTE: Dionysus

[KawaiiKame]

0kay Toffee is coming back to the game, I liked the opening engagement, I disliked the post-dio unvote disengagement, let's see what I think of Toffee's homecoming posts

[KawaiiKame]

bbt leans town to me with this engagement, dismantling Black's NAI rvs theory, defending skittle's philosophy
herata is big null
patches is...null at best, though being scapegoated exists, readlist coming soon to a mafia forum near you

[KawaiiKame]

Meh, maybe Skitter was right after all.

Skitter is most likely right, I feel voting Dio is the best move, IIoA is a pretty apt description of dio's analysis

[KawaiiKame]

Can you explain how you ruled out town pursuing town?

Why can't Skitter's pursuit be both in good faith but also just wrong? This feels like setting up flips and I don't like it

Town pursuing town is a possibility I thought of yet failed to put down, saying that slipped my mind, felt to me like a mafia/town interaction, sometimes I think something thinking I said it

[KawaiiKame]

Why is dio being the focus of town? Pages and pages of dio being town vs. dio being scum, we need to move on, focus on someone new

[KawaiiKame]

Your posts keep pinging me as being just 'off- - not just once or twice, but over and over and over again

What feels off about what dio is posting? I feel dio feels off too but that's only a feeling, I do not believe vibes/feelings alone is sufficient enough to vote dio, we need something substantial if we do this

[KawaiiKame]

This is pretty terrible reasoning too from someone who has me top of their scum list. In summary your read is based on vibes. You also cite me having a lot of posts but don't get the sense I'm trying to solve yet you tr patches of all people.

Sometimes vibes/feelings is all you have to go off of, I don't think it's pretty terrible, definitely not ideal

[KawaiiKame]

I find the relationship between dio/skitter the most interesting, skitter pursuing dio feels like town pursuing mafia/mafia pursuing town, I'm divided with the philosophy of pursuing votes based on rvs slips/mistakes, if I take skitter's pursuit in good faith dio is most likely scum, if I take skitter's pursuit in bad faith then dio is most likely town, I believe you can scumhunt in any stage with rvs being the most nai, skitter definitely changed the game state with the dio vote

Can you explain how you ruled out town pursuing town?

Why can't Skitter's pursuit be both in good faith but also just wrong? This feels like setting up flips and I don't like it

Let's explore this possibility, if Skitter and dio both town then it's highly likely Black is town and empathice is mafia
The way Black is defending dio feels genuinely town to me, questioning why dio is being pursued so hard/wanting thoughts on people not named dio, antithetical to skittles who asked my thoughts on dio.

Empathice set the stage against dio in the beginning with the powerwolfing post against you then pursued dio all in when skitter went against dio following hadrian's vote pressure, though I liked the initial aggression dio's became Empathice's sole focus, this can be overzealous town but why is Empathice not interacting with people to push the dio vote? I feel Empathice town would push everyone to vote dio straight up, the aggression definitely exists

I touched on Black since she feels town to me, I want to emphasize her inquisitive/defensive nature, wanting ppl to solve in #362

[KawaiiKame]

So if patches is scum, who is their partner? I don't feel skitter as a scumpartner for patches. They have argued too strongly in their defence which I just don't think skitter would do if they were partners. Empathice is more likely, especially with:

I like this post from you and it seems like you're trying to solve, however I'm not confident that patches or skitter are scum with Empathice. I see the connections you are making and it's definitely not out of the question. I'm just not sure patches being candid about how they play as either alignment is a scum slip. skitter has been closely linked to Empathice and I'm not sure if the scum team would be this coordinated in such an awful wagon together. Possible, but also very risky

Why don't you feel a patches/skitter scum team with Empathice?

[KawaiiKame]

Why is dio being the focus of town? Pages and pages of dio being town vs. dio being scum, we need to move on, focus on someone new

Why are you voting dio rn?

The flip, voting dio gives town a lot of info, though I'm tempted to unvote
Idk if I need to believe you + Empathice/Black + dio

[KawaiiKame]

Fuck it
UNVOTE: Dio

[KawaiiKame]

Would you like to thunderdome? One of us gets eliminated today and if they flip town we eliminate the other tomorrow.
[/quote]

How does this benefit town if both of you flip town?

[KawaiiKame]

Don't worry that won't happen.

How do you know? What happens if it does?

[KawaiiKame]

Kawaii, can I get a run down of where you're at currently?

I'm in the state that I need to IS0 everyone
Do you mean in reads/in pages?

[KawaiiKame]

Yeah, just some general reads/thoughts on current game state.

Black is my biggest town read, I'm with her in wanting to move away the dio vs. emp face off, sadly I feel this isn't happening
I liked when you pointed out the town vs. town between dio vs. skittle, you and Black both helped me change my perspective
I wish skittle saw someone else as scum outside of dio, she's committed against dio, that's evident
I wish skittle, dio, empath gave real analysis against each other, Idek what the foundation is to this colosseum fight
Black has fire analysis in my eyes, wanting to shift focus as the above 3 fight in the mud
I can see the possibility of a lurker scumteam (hadrian/herata) tho I see hadrian as town, I don't fault them with being inactive despite being online since I've been online yet inactive, I was lurking a long time, maybe hadrian is confused and making sense of this day like I was, though scum does benefit in letting the dio vs. emp fight play out
I feel skittle is somewhat right about dio's posts being off and lacking substance, giving the appearance of looking busy, but this is a fos, a feeling not substantial evidence, dio's posts do have some substance to them but it feels like they have something missing, the push against emp does exist, emp pointed out a push not being real and I believe it was? I need to go back to double check
Skittle seems town, Idk if vigilant/misguided yet
Empathice keeps flipping to me, he was at the top of my town reads only being eclipsed by Black in the opening then went falling down to scummy with the endless pursuit on dio now Empath is going back up to towny with the all-nothing gambit against dio
This may be a scum play to be seen as town, Idk if maf will do this tho, low town/potential null
dio is fos, low town/potential null
Patches is NAI with the last explanation, nullified self-admission
Herata null
toffee town behind Black

[KawaiiKame]

Town:
Black
BBT
Hadrian
Skittle

Null-Town:
Empath
Dio

Null:
Herata
Patches

[KawaiiKame]

Am I missing anyone?

[KawaiiKame]

Besides me, obvi

[KawaiiKame]

That Hadrian read is wild

Why? Hadrian hasn't contributed enough?
The possibility of you being maf exists but you feel town to me

Happy to elim within Patch, Herta, Hadrian and Empathice.

Do you not think Empath is town with the last move? Empath feels like the most willing vote

[KawaiiKame]

Town players need to interact with multiple slots so when they flip we can use that information to make an informed play. Refusing to do so and even dodging questions asking you to talk about other players is inherently anti-town

I'm with you all in Black, what slots do you want to interact with?

[KawaiiKame]

I would LOVE to interact with the hadrian and Herta slots....

SAME

[KawaiiKame]

Thanks for that. Like I said I'll have a proper look at that (and maybe some other games) tonight, but I will say that from a *very* brief glance at their iso, I don't immediately see those similarities

It's tonight, hoping to engage with you soon
The night is young, let's dance

[KawaiiKame]

Kawaii's most recent wall #443 I didn't like the analysis of Black. I Did like the analysis of Black in #404 though

What didn't you like/did like?

[KawaiiKame]

That was two nights ago lol. I'm not getting my hopes up

Hopefully if these slots need to get replaced, it happens with enough time left in the day for the replacements to contribute

My perception of time is so fucked...

[KawaiiKame]

Dion/BBT, Dion/Kawaii or Dion/had

Why BBT/Me/Hadrian?

[KawaiiKame]

partner equity with Dion

partner equity?

[KawaiiKame]

You and BBT seem more likely than Had

Who is most likely to you?

[KawaiiKame]

black is my top tr

same
top scum?

[KawaiiKame]

Yes it is

I think with the exception of one post, maybe two I'd have to check, all their posts have been about me and the push has been quite aggressive. The closest they've ever come to entertaining someone else was a fluff vote on you which was immediately retracted (no commentary from you tho on what the purpose of it was tho. Weird). But since then: Dio Dio Dio Dio. No focus elsewhere. Not interested in thinking they might be wrong. Dio Dio Dio Dio.

How is that town behaviour? Some verbose way of saying "because I agree with them" is not an acceptable answer to this question either. Tell me why they are town

Reading you correctly doesn't make me win. Eliminating you makes me win.

eliminating me will only help you win if you're scum. So on that I guess you're right: getting rid of me will make you win.

Would you like to thunderdome? One of us gets eliminated today and if they flip town we eliminate the other tomorrow.

What if both dio/emp = 2 scum?

[KawaiiKame]

It will be perfect, one mafia dies and the 2nd mafia looks town until the endgame

[KawaiiKame]

actually that's a theory that's.. not impossible

The biggest bussing

[KawaiiKame]

Looking too town is a liability.

How can one look too town? Is that even a thing?
Even if it's a liability maybe it's good to take it with how insane it is,
liability ≠ impossibility

[KawaiiKame]

Looking too town is a liability.

How can one look too town? Is that even a thing?
Even if it's a liability maybe it's good to take it with how insane it is,
liability ≠ impossibility

In fact, it being a liability may be the exact reason to pursue the move

[KawaiiKame]

Black, sorry for asking, but are you masons with Dion?

Are you really PR hunting rn?

Scumslip?

[KawaiiKame]

Some of what they do looks like it might be what a partner would do.

0kay, how does what I do look like something a dio partner would do?
Same with bbt

[KawaiiKame]

Their interaction's don't really feel partnered

Who's interactions feel partnered?

[KawaiiKame]

Since you don't feel it's dio/emp

[KawaiiKame]

Empathice and dio's

No Ik, I mean who do you feel is scum partnered with dio?

[KawaiiKame]

Oh sorry i misread the question
Someone in {kawaii, hadrian}
Offchance of bbt
[/quote]
0kay close to Emph which was
{kawaii, bbt}
Offchance of bbt

[KawaiiKame]

Oh sorry i misread the question
Someone in {kawaii, hadrian}
Offchance of bbt

0kay close to Emph which was
{kawaii, bbt}
Offchance of hadrian
[/quote]

Edited in 2nd post

[KawaiiKame]

Kawaii actually had p good partner equity with dio

Why?

[KawaiiKame]

And black i don't think you should answer that question

^

[KawaiiKame]

Why is dio being the focus of town? Pages and pages of dio being town vs. dio being scum, we need to move on, focus on someone new

Your posts keep pinging me as being just 'off- - not just once or twice, but over and over and over again

What feels off about what dio is posting? I feel dio feels off too but that's only a feeling, I do not believe vibes/feelings alone is sufficient enough to vote dio, we need something substantial if we do this

These two posts (made while voting him) feel v partner-y to me

We kept going in an endless loop/cycle of you + Empath vs. Black + Dio, since I townread Black it didn't make sense to pursue the dio vote when we can gain info engaging with new slots, felt keeping my vote on Dio would lead to town stagnating
The way you view Empathice as town mindset is the same way I view Black as town mindset

[KawaiiKame]

Well scum gains knowing where the pr's are
(Or narrowing it fown more)

Black WILL die regardless. I'm only asking if they are masons with one particular person.

How do you know this? Why will she die?

[KawaiiKame]

Yeah maybe i should try again to drop it ...
What do you think abt patch?

Idk if you should, you be right about dio
Happy you willing to engage with the new slots, I'm happy patches is engaging feels towny

[KawaiiKame]

Yeah maybe i should try again to drop it ...
What do you think abt patch?

Idk if you should, you might be right about dio
Happy you willing to engage with the new slots, I'm happy patches is engaging feels towny

edit in 2 post

[KawaiiKame]

Emphathice is very clearly lining up his night actions here. I can't believe no one else is seeing this

I see it,
"How do you know this? Why will she die?"
VOTE: Empathice

[KawaiiKame]

No I just needed to know if Dion was confirmed town so I don't waste my solving.

UNVOTE: Dionysus

Is Dio suddenly town to you? I thought it was you vs. dio

[KawaiiKame]

No I just needed to know if Dion was confirmed town so I don't waste my solving.

UNVOTE: Dionysus

Do you have new scum in mind?

[KawaiiKame]

Man the Empath unvote + mason asking is weak, I don't like this

[KawaiiKame]

I have played many, many games of mafia and i can't recall ever seeing scum do what you're suggesting

Doesn't mean scum won't do this, only that it's unlikely scum would do this

[KawaiiKame]

Skitter/Black/Dion/me

Why the sudden flip that Dion is town?

[KawaiiKame]

*Sudden flip to Dion being town

[KawaiiKame]

Skitter/Black/Dion/me

Why the sudden flip that Dion is town?

I'm just going to let the Masons thing self resolve.

I Don't think he's town but I'm not pushing him for today because Black will always die tonight and we still have tomorrow.

This is not definite, it's the most likely, why wait? Makes 0 sense not to push dio now if you fully believe dio is scum
Not pushing dio now = potential push of a potential mislim

[KawaiiKame]

Skitter/Black/Dion/me

So Hadrian/Herata/BBT/me

[KawaiiKame]

*I missed Patches

[KawaiiKame]

There's no way town!Black treats Dion like this if they don't have a mech clear on them.

I believe the way exists w/out the mech, black feels naturally defensive/inquistive, but so be it

VOTE: Dionysis

Happy you voting dio again, why did you believe dio was town in the moment?

[KawaiiKame]

*Black

[KawaiiKame]

Black was defending Dion while not townreading them.

Show this to me, this whole time I thought Black did
Lemme IS0 Black's posts

[KawaiiKame]

I don't think a town of any experience level forces a read when questioned about a vote.

Forces a read when questioned about a vote? What does this mean?

[KawaiiKame]

Basically if you look at how Black treated Dion they tunneled them as town while not claiming to townread them.

I have to look into this by IS0 Black and Ctrl + F town Dion

[KawaiiKame]

IS0 Black time

[KawaiiKame]

I like this analysis by Dio. Posts like this with a summary of the game accompanied by thoughts as well as a full reads list always ping me as town

"ping me as town" indicates/implies a townread

[KawaiiKame]

I ended up IS0ing and ctrl f town

[KawaiiKame]

After catching up, I leantown Kawaii, hadriaaan, BBT. Pretty null on Dio and Herta. I leanwolf on skitter and patchwork.

Initially null w/ Dio

[KawaiiKame]

I change my mind on kawaii again, they're prob town

Ty : ) Feel you town too

[KawaiiKame]

Potential empath/bbt bus exists

[KawaiiKame]

This whole progression from Empath is wild. I'm his top TR and Dio is his top SR. Then we are town together? Then we are scum together. Plus the PR hunting, not explaining why both masons have to claim? I feel confident in my vote but I don't think we should end the day until hadrian and Herta contribute

It's insane, Idk why top town + top scum will be on the same team in empath's eyes unless empath's town thinking is that fluid

[KawaiiKame]

Also what does this post even mean? Why would you not push your top scum read because I might die?

Skitter/Black/Dion/me

Why the sudden flip that Dion is town?

I'm just going to let the Masons thing self resolve.

I Don't think he's town but I'm not pushing him for today because Black will always die tonight and we still have tomorrow.

That's what I was saying, makes 0 sense to not push dio

[KawaiiKame]

Also what does this post even mean? Why would you not push your top scum read because I might die?

Skitter/Black/Dion/me

Why the sudden flip that Dion is town?

I'm just going to let the Masons thing self resolve.

I Don't think he's town but I'm not pushing him for today because Black will always die tonight and we still have tomorrow.

Empath is back to voting dio

[KawaiiKame]

I change my mind on kawaii again, they're prob town

This we can agree on. Kawaii is my top townread

Why am I?

[KawaiiKame]

'Scum wouldnt do this' is like the key metric for scumhunting imo. That's how i find town and my thought process when trying to read people

If you can figure out what scum won't do, and you see someone doing it anyways, they're probably town. It works

And honestly i townread the sheet audacity of offering a thunderdome: i have a really, really hard time seeing scum trying that move

Would scum thunderdome? If the thinking is only town would do something this insane then yes, scum would do this
Would scum ask 2 masons to out dpI? Definitely, yes, scum would do this

[KawaiiKame]

Regardless how confident you are...anything can happen in those 17 pages. Like someone trying to force the masons to claim idk

Someone tried to out us? You didn't spill the beans did you?

#519

[KawaiiKame]

Still posting about me I see.

"IT IS I! DI0! THE MAIN CHARACTER!"

[KawaiiKame]

You don't understand the way I work Black. Each new game, especially a Newbie, is like unwrapping a present. I want to dive straight in.

I see why you tr Empathice then, the aggression fits your in game philosophy of hitting the ground running, much like why skitter trs Empathice since Empath's reads align with skitter's

[KawaiiKame]

I threw and dumb rvs vote on herta

I went to work

I came back after work and someone asked why I had voted herta

I couldn't remember if I had a reason

I scrolled and saw their post, thought it was scummy

I carelessly replied without giving it proper thought

Someone pointed out their intro came after my vote

I said oops, sorry was rvs

If I was scum and playing with a scum mindset, I guarantee you I WOULD NOT have been so careless. Because that would be DUMB.

That was me who asked why, scum playing careless/dumb is possible, this does not town clear you

MOD NOTE: Fixed quote tag

[KawaiiKame]

My point is that if you were town you would not be so careless about your solving.

Town can be careless about their solving, I don't see how dio was, please point that out to me

[KawaiiKame]

I threw and dumb rvs vote on herta

I went to work

I came back after work and someone asked why I had voted herta

I couldn't remember if I had a reason

I scrolled and saw their post, thought it was scummy

I carelessly replied without giving it proper thought

Someone pointed out their intro came after my vote

I said oops, sorry was rvs

If I was scum and playing with a scum mindset, I guarantee you I WOULD NOT have been so careless. Because that would be DUMB.

That was me who asked why, scum playing careless/dumb is possible, this does not town clear you

MOD NOTE: Fixed quote tag

Like as a knee jerk reaction you can backtrack and find a scummy reason to justify the vote, misremembering when getting back home from work? Entirely possible

[KawaiiKame]

My point is that if you were town you would not be so careless about your solving.

Have you explained how dio was careless about their solving outside of making a mistake in rvs? If you did I didn't see it

[KawaiiKame]

My point is that if you were town you would not be so careless about your solving.

Have you explained how dio was careless about their solving outside of making a mistake in rvs? If you did I didn't see it

To extend this thought I don't see misrembering as careless per se, we forget it happens, we human

[KawaiiKame]

#42 and #65 are contradictory.

How? I need to read them

[KawaiiKame]

Imma eat peace

[KawaiiKame]

isn't "scum wouldn't do this" townhunting and not scumhunting lol

¿Qué? How?

[KawaiiKame]

Beetlejuicing is appearing when your name is mentioned

Like the Devil?

[KawaiiKame]

Empathice wanting the thunderdome is +town.

how
pedit: yeah, town for me (imo) is black and kawaii both are very obvtown, i

want

to tr hadrian but they've posted literally seven times and i may be biased, less towny ones are skitter, emp and dio (not in that order)

What place does bbt fall in?

[KawaiiKame]

"god fucking save me how do i read this person

So dio with me, got you

[KawaiiKame]

Hello, bewolkt

[KawaiiKame]

I dislike this vote push on patch, seems they being scapegoated
Please unvote

[KawaiiKame]

Also Emp can you please acknowledge that your whole mason thing was careless and as a result you look should look scummy for it?

I Already acknowledged it was careless. I Don't think I look scummy for it. At least I wouldn't to myself.

Dio is careless and scummy
Emp is careless and not scummy
Why?

[KawaiiKame]

Why am I the only one noticing these weird contradictions in Empathice's logic?

It's contradictive af, emp can be careless and not scummy but it's scummy when dio is careless?

[KawaiiKame]

Why am I the only one noticing these weird contradictions in Empathice's logic?

It's contradictive af, emp can be careless and not scummy but it's scummy when dio is careless?

Why doesn't emp's own logic apply to emp?

[KawaiiKame]

Why am I the only one noticing these weird contradictions in Empathice's logic?

It's contradictive af, emp can be careless and not scummy but it's scummy when dio is careless?

Why doesn't emp's own logic apply to emp?

Someone please vote emp
emp's logic is hypocritical/contradictory af

[KawaiiKame]

how do i tell which ones are important though

The ones that advance the game, like if you're at e-I you need to defend yourself passionately with all your heart/give the best gut reads you've ever given

[KawaiiKame]

You guys are using the wrong metrics to find scum

What is the right metrics to find scum? Why don't they include contradictory logic and outing masons?

[KawaiiKame]

You guys are using the wrong metrics to find scum

The whole basis of emp scumreading dio is being careless (with the herata vote in rvs), emp admits being careless yet sees emp as not scummy

[KawaiiKame]

What you've pointed out is a contradiction. Town can contradict themselves. Town can be hypocritical.

True, town can be, but will town hard tunnel a vote based on being careless yet forgive their own carelessness? Not forgiving someone else's carelessness?

[KawaiiKame]

What you've pointed out is a contradiction. Town can contradict themselves. Town can be hypocritical.

True, town can be, but will town hard tunnel a vote based on being careless yet forgive their own carelessness? Not forgiving someone else's carelessness?

Keep in mind carelessness in rvs

[KawaiiKame]

You guys are using the wrong metrics to find scum

then almighty SE, what are the right metrics

Town are solving, scum are surviving. That's the core of the game.

EMPATHICE IS NOT SOLVING! AND HE'S TRYING TO SURVIVE BY PIVOTING TO THE WEIRD PATCH WAGON

If patchwork flips town, I agree that it looks bad. But I have so much confidence in patchwork flipping red that I'm not considering Empathice as scum right now.

I have 0 confidence in any way patch flips, why so confident? Not doing anything in scumhunting?

[KawaiiKame]

I'm pretty sure patchwork is scumclaiming. There's no way they flip town

Inb4 they flip town

[KawaiiKame]

I'm gonna be straight up: I have zero interest in flipping anyone other than patchwork today.

That's evident, Idk why you not willing to engage in any possibilities beyond this

[KawaiiKame]

You guys are using the wrong metrics to find scum

Please tell me what is town about Emp saying a town player wouldn't be careless with his solves, and then Emp admitting he was careless with his solves but that he doesn't think it's scummy and he wouldn't think it's scummy if he was a bystander seeing himself be careless with his solves? Please

What you've pointed out is a contradiction. Town can contradict themselves. Town can be hypocritical.

Dude. When the contradiction is the whole basis for a vote and a tunnel, that's scummy. What are you even saying

^

[KawaiiKame]

I'm pretty sure patchwork is scumclaiming. There's no way they flip town

Inb4 they flip town

There's no way.

There is a way, any combination is possible, you need to be open to all possibilities as town

[KawaiiKame]

Like anyone can be any role of any alignment at any time, only scum knows alignment

[KawaiiKame]

Well furtive will officially be no help with the solve. He's tunneled on patch and refuses to see other possibilities lol. Shame. Maybe the newbie replacement can be more help

Is this a theme? Empath tunneling Dio, Furtive tunneling patch

[KawaiiKame]

What's with town and tunneling today

[KawaiiKame]

furtive have you ever considered that scum can fake-solve

fake solve?

[KawaiiKame]

*fake-solve

[KawaiiKame]

What's with town and tunneling today

Is this a slip? We don't know they are town

By town I mean everyone, not the alignment

[KawaiiKame]

What's with town and tunneling today

Is this a slip? We don't know they are town

By town I mean everyone, not the alignment

Ok that makes sense I think I just read it wrong

I can see why you thought that since town has double-meanings in mafia, English is confusing

[KawaiiKame]

Aren't you someone who sees tunneling as scummy?

I am

[KawaiiKame]

What's with town and tunneling today

Is this a slip? We don't know they are town

By town I mean everyone, not the alignment

Aren't you someone who sees tunneling as scummy?

I am, town meaning everyone in the game, not people in town alignment

[KawaiiKame]

UNVOTE: Patchwork

Thank you

[KawaiiKame]

If you're town then Kawaii/Patch is probably right.

Why me/Patch?

[KawaiiKame]

Why am I just misinterpreting everything rn

It happens, don't worry

[KawaiiKame]

Why am I just misinterpreting everything rn
[/quote]

I'd say forget about it but that would make the problem worse

[KawaiiKame]

I should probably be more reflective but when I think I'm onto something I can get quite tunnelled about it

Please be reflective

[KawaiiKame]

Recent vibes

What vibes?

[KawaiiKame]

Furitive i feel mildly ignored

0ne thousand

[KawaiiKame]

My carelessness does not indicate that I'm not trying to solve. Quite the opposite in fact.

How did you being careless = you trying to solve?

[KawaiiKame]

Kawaii - my had a soft sr on them earlier in the game for mostly asking a lot of questions without making any pushes of their own. This is scummy behaviour imo. They went to null after a big post of theirs on response to this but they've slipped back down with their hardcore buddying/pocketing of black. And I do agree that the "town and tunneling" comment may have been a slip

I like this read on me, especially buddying/pocketing black, something ignited in my mind when engaging w/ Black vs. Emp when Emp didn't make any sense to me, feel we think a lot alike at least in the moment when in tune on the same wavelength, felt inspired

I felt someone would see this like mindedness as buddying, you made my feeling reality

[KawaiiKame]

You trying to out both PRs in order to make the game easier for you is

careless solving

^

[KawaiiKame]

So why should we townread you

I have the same question, why?

[KawaiiKame]

i rely on gutreads and then analysis on those players

Give full gutreads/analysis now

[KawaiiKame]

You know what I'm gonna say to this post right

Silence scum?

[KawaiiKame]

You know what I'm gonna say to this post right

Silence scum?

No?

That I'm gonna say it is buddying/pocketing

Thinking alike is buddying/pocketing? I mean I see why you think it is in your perspective, but not in mine
And yeah I had a feeling you'd say that, but I thought you'd call me scum outright

[KawaiiKame]

*Thinking alike/like-mindedness

[KawaiiKame]

I don't want to accuse Kawaii of buddying but I do recognize it could be. I'm guilty of it too and I know I'm town. I think we are just mindmelding over Empathice

It is mindmelding but I do see why it's perceived as buddying

[KawaiiKame]

My solving has not been careless at all. It was careless of me to ask if you were masons with Dion because that confirms me VT.

How has your solving been careful?

[KawaiiKame]

Can someone else comment on Dionysus/patchwork interactions please? I'm fairly sure that's the team. They have each other as scumleans consistently, yet seem weirdly resistant to voting each other when it matters.

Dio is focused in on Empathice, Idk why patch is resistant

[KawaiiKame]

its less that they are tunneling atm and more that they are ACTIVELY TRYING not to tunnel and that's what's so towny for me

What?

[KawaiiKame]

Either Emp DOES believe that a town player can be careless and his whole reason for initially sring Dio is null, or he DOESN'T believe a town player can be careless, in which case why would he lie???

My carelessness does not indicate that I'm not trying to solve. Quite the opposite in fact.

Your solving has been careless. You even admitted it. And that's exactly why you initially scumread Dio. Do you not see the contradiction here? Using your logic, you should come to the conclusion that a town player

can

be careless with their solves and rethink your position

My solving has not been careless

at all

. It was careless of me to ask if you were masons with Dion because that confirms me VT.

Care to say how you've been careful in solving? Care to say how asking masons is not careless solving?

[KawaiiKame]

I should probably be more reflective but when I think I'm onto something I can get quite tunnelled about it

Same tbh. I can't lie. I'm actively trying not to tunnel on Empathice

this and also they're not tunneling on you

So you're just taking them at their word? They are clearly tunneling.

Pointing out how you've been careless in solving is tunneling you?

[KawaiiKame]

What if the hadrian/bewolkt slot is a wolf? Shouldn't we let them post some stuff before we flip anyone? One more opinion here can only benefit the town and I'm just confused why people think it's a good idea to end the day when we haven't heard from everyone. I'm sorry if the game feels stale for you but I don't think we should just end the day because a couple people are bored

We should, let hadrian/bewolk post

[KawaiiKame]

Someone unvote patch

[KawaiiKame]

Someone unvote patch

[KawaiiKame]

ok well just to spite you im not gonna claim

Black can we get your hammer over here please? ^^

Don't we need hadrian/bewolk to claim clod

[KawaiiKame]

VoteCount 1.9

patchwork [ 4 ]

BluebloodedToffee, furtiveglance, dionysus, empathice

If patchwork flips town I feel there there is at least one wolf here

dio-emp wolf pack will be amazing

[KawaiiKame]

Black can we get your hammer over here please? ^^

Can we get you to say how outing masons isn't careless solving?

[KawaiiKame]

Empath is most likely wolf, unvote patch

[KawaiiKame]

Idk why empath is avoiding my question

[KawaiiKame]

Empathice?

You trying to out both PRs in order to make the game easier for you is

careless solving

I feel like Empathice needs to admit that he thinks town players can be careless when trying to solve

And when he admits that then like... 95% of his case against Dio falls apart

I Already said it was careless of me to ask if you were Masons with Dion. That's not what I mean by not caring about solving. Dion created a SR on a slot only after he was questioned about his vote on said slot. This means he didn't care about whether or not he was scumreading scum. This is the definition of a mafioso with inability to solve due to TMI, and the requirement to look like they are solving regardless, AKA being performative.

Thank you, I finally see why you view dio as mafia, do you want to unvote voting dio? If you do I will unvote you and vote dio

[KawaiiKame]

As a legacy I will say that all mafia are probably in Dion/Patch/Kawaii

I hope you right w/ Dion/Patch

[KawaiiKame]

you guys vote claimed vts anyways right

vts?

[KawaiiKame]

vanilla townies

and that's a completely hypothetical question because someone in my other game mentioned it in passing i am absolutely not outing my role

Not even at E-I?

[KawaiiKame]

As a legacy I will say that all mafia are probably in Dion/Patch/Kawaii

I hope you right w/ Dion/Patch

This is also my solve

Why this solve?

[KawaiiKame]

As a legacy I will say that all mafia are probably in Dion/Patch/Kawaii

I hope you right w/ Dion/Patch

This is also my solve

Why this solve?

Have you read

any

of my posts?

I have, I see why dion/patch but not why with me, I seem to flip between town and scum with you, ending in town in the last catch up posts

[KawaiiKame]

As a legacy I will say that all mafia are probably in Dion/Patch/Kawaii

I hope you right w/ Dion/Patch

This is also my solve

Why this solve?

Have you read

any

of my posts?

I have, I see why dion/patch but not why with me, I seem to flip between town and scum with you, ending in town in the last catch up posts

Edit in 2 posts

[KawaiiKame]

Wow that edit failed

[KawaiiKame]

As a legacy I will say that all mafia are probably in Dion/Patch/Kawaii

I hope you right w/ Dion/Patch

This is also my solve

Why this solve?

Have you read

any

of my posts?

Click the ISO button in the top middle of this post. Then scroll down to my posts which have 'catch up' at the top. Click the spoiler buttons on those posts to find out why I have this solve.

Ik why dion/patches but Idk why I'm in this, I kept flipping between town/mafia ending in town in the last flip of the last catch up posts

[KawaiiKame]

Yeah my solve is Dionysus/patchwork, I don't scumread you particularly

I'm a back up option in case patch/dio flip town? Got you

[KawaiiKame]

Yeah my solve is Dionysus/patchwork, I don't scumread you particularly

Do you have a 2nd solve? Me/Who?
0kay I see bewolkt now, I want them to post b4 the day ends

[KawaiiKame]

Gut is saying the solve is Patch/Kawaii

You have a 2nd solve? Emp Gut is 50% off

[KawaiiKame]

scumhunting isn't worth it either because literally everyone has me as a null/sl/sr and i doubt anyone would agree with my reads or analysis

scumhunting is always worth it, stop being so fatalistic, even if you die you benefit town, so long as you live it's not futile

[KawaiiKame]

scumhunting isn't worth it either because literally everyone has me as a null/sl/sr and i doubt anyone would agree with my reads or analysis

scumhunting is always worth it, stop being so fatalistic, even if you die you benefit town, so long as you live it's not futile

If you die, so what? It's not always about you, it's about helping town find scum

[KawaiiKame]

Yeah when you flip mafia your legacy is oftentimes a negative

Legacy? Like what you leave behind?

[KawaiiKame]

i also don't wanna go out all blaze of glory or whatever, i got into this cause i was more reactive and more defensive and if no one believed me then, would they now? probably not. scumhunting isn't worth it either because literally everyone has me as a null/sl/sr and i doubt anyone would agree with my reads or analysis

Antispew

spewAnti

[KawaiiKame]

Yeah my solve is Dionysus/patchwork, I don't scumread you particularly

My solve is Dionysus/Empathice

[KawaiiKame]

Kawaii makes sense now nvm it's Patch/Dion.

Finally seeing the light

[KawaiiKame]

UNVOTE: Patchwork

I'm tired I'll figure out if my mind has actually changed sometime later but maybe they're just lazy rather than performative I'll have to reread it.

Gn

[KawaiiKame]

I do not like the patch push, happy with skitter/black being against it and not falling into temptation with hammering, both + town
Empath is getting +town in my eyes with unvoting patch b4 leaving in the night, gives time to bewolkt to post thoughts
Idk what place dio is in
Furitive is mirroring the thoughts/philosophy of skittle/empath, thinking Dion/Patch, Empath is also thinking Dion/Patch now
I do not like patch giving up with scumhunting like that, looks like selfish/fatalistic play, hopefully they willing to scumhunt soon
dio is not in heat now, please post deeply detail analysis dio

[KawaiiKame]

I do not like the patch push, happy with skitter/black being against it and not falling into temptation with hammering, both + town
Empath is getting +town in my eyes with unvoting patch b4 leaving in the night, gives time to bewolkt to post thoughts
Idk what place dio is in
Furitive is mirroring the thoughts/philosophy of skittle/empath, thinking Dion/Patch, Empath is also thinking Dion/Patch now
I do not like patch giving up with scumhunting like that, looks like selfish/fatalistic play, hopefully they willing to scumhunt soon
dio is not in heat now, please post deeply detail analysis dio

0h wait dio did in #1011, I saw this b4, I need to sleep gn

[KawaiiKame]

Dionysus I noticed a hole in my logic I think.

What hole in your logic?

[KawaiiKame]

I'm seeing parallels between dio being persecuted for rvs and patch being persecuted for their playstyle, semi-ironically it's dio who's pushing patch, the persecuted becomes the persecutee

bewolkt reignites dio's rvs persecution, this time since he doesn't match his initial meta, in #1154 Dio explicitly says he changed his style since he had a bad time in the opening, (now he has an even worse time in the opening), yet bewolkt continues to hound dio for changing his meta. Why? It's perfectly reasonable that dio change his rvs/opening style to avoid getting his feet to the fire again, emp tunneling dio for the herata vote mistake in rvs most of the game looks town in comparison, like bewolkt claims to read all the game, why is dio's meta the focus? Emp makes note of an "anticipated defense" of patch by bewolkt, painting bewolkt in a dark light to me