Newbie 2111 - Know Your Skittles! (Game Over)

[furtiveglance]

Hi guys.

I haven't read much at all of the game yet, I saw there was a Weuler CW yesterday though.

Let me read the first 10 pages and I'll see if I can find a scum or two

[furtiveglance]

I'll just comment on anything I find alignment indicative.

Spoiler: Page 1

Elements +town. Weuler's 11is uncharitable in a way that's possibly +scum.

Spoiler: Page 2

Human +town. Arko +scum. Black is a tough one to read.

Spoiler: Page 3

Aureal's posting is +scum. usesPython slightly +town.

Spoiler: Page 4

usesPython +town. Elements +town. Human's 2 PR comment: that's also sort of how I think of NewD3. I think Human's overreaction is +town. Black slightly +town. Aureal continues to look +scum.

Spoiler: Page 5

Human's reads and giving up are weird. It's +scum. Not sure how to reconcile my read on them overall.

Spoiler: Page 6

Arko's reads are +town even though I disagree.

Spoiler: Page 7

Elements and Black moving in towny ways. Python good read on Weuler, +town. Human trending down.

Spoiler: Page 8

Aureal +scum. Human Sequencer's entrance looks +town.

Spoiler: Page 9

Aureal's big post is making me question my read on her. I agree on Weuler.

Spoiler: Page 10

Aureal continues to confuse me. Black +town. STD entrance is ok

Here's my reads on the living:

Black, Elements, usesPython

Aureal, Human

Weuler

[furtiveglance]

I'm curious about your Aureal read. I think she's my biggest TR and python never really explained why they thought she was scummy either

I thought the early posting was quite surfacey and jokey, that's it really.

[furtiveglance]

I want to read more of the game obviously before I pass judgement, but I don't want to read it all at once

[furtiveglance]

Just to briefly clear up the hammer reasoning
I scumread StD over Weuler and StD had already claimed. I didn't want Weuler to claim and narrow the pool for who to kill.
I still think Weuler is probs town

I was going to push Meg today for the unvote on Weuler but guess I won't be doing that!

VOTE: python

really...

[furtiveglance]

I'm gonna read p10-20. Do people want a catch up post? What kind of format?

[furtiveglance]

My craptop crashed and I don't want to repeat myself, I'll just give the TLDR on pages 20-30

Elements looking scummy for votehopping and interaction with STD
Human getting townier for looking genuinely clueless and unpartnered with the thread/entire world
Aureal getting townier for charitable stance on Elements

I think it's Elements and Weuler

[furtiveglance]

Just to briefly clear up the hammer reasoning
I scumread StD over Weuler and StD had already claimed. I didn't want Weuler to claim and narrow the pool for who to kill.
I still think Weuler is probs town

I was going to push Meg today for the unvote on Weuler but guess I won't be doing that!

VOTE: python

This vote is just strange considering Weuler's stance on Elements. I think the natural thing to do if Elements was town or if Weuler/Elements was T/S would just be to omgus, but Elements sidesteps it and calls Weuler 'probs town' when I don't think Weuler's been towny at all

[furtiveglance]

Black, is there anything you want from me? I've read the first 30 pages and the last few.

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler: Human

No, he just replaced in why do you even have a read on guy who just entered the game

Inherently no, the way he said it kind of

Slow burn gone though so:
Human, what's with the aggression in

No, he just replaced in why do you even have a read on guy who just entered the game

I feel like it is a bit quick to have a read on someone but elements is elements to be fair I did feel like elements was being dumb when I had made that post.

And as a follow up: why is it strange for Elements to have a read on Freedom already when his predecessor posted their reads already before replacing

Honestly fair

This all looks really aimless to me. Posting for posting's sake. I feel like if Human is Mafia, his partner hasn't given him any advice whatsoever, and it's easier for me to see Human as a complete noob just openly exploring the game.

[furtiveglance]

regardless of your despairing self-deprecation Human, who is Mafia in this game?

[furtiveglance]

Probably weuler or elements is one of them might be both

can't fully be certain though

no indeed

Which are you more sure on?

[furtiveglance]

furtivehasnt talked much yet

What about his predecessors Human Sequencer and Freedom? Also I disagree on him not talking much yet; he's almost entirely caught up, posted a solve, and posted his reads on the people still alive.

Time to read a bit more

[furtiveglance]

Whoa slow down man I'm hoping you actually have life unlike me anyway I feel like you are quite town with your progressions so far

All I'm seeing is Elements defending Weuler and pushing STD really hard

[furtiveglance]

I have a bit of a life but I do have an unreasonable amount of time for this site D_D

[furtiveglance]

Game has slowed a bit so I'll put a vote down. I think Weuler and Elements are both scum, but after yesterday's vote Weuler needs to go. I also read a bit of 2109 and Weuler seems more energetic in that one.

VOTE: Weuler

[furtiveglance]

More formally:

Observation 1: Human Sequencer has posted in the past at specific times of day

Observation 2: Human Sequencer has not posted in this thread even at those specific times of day

Hypothesis 1: Something is preventing them from posting in this thread

Hypothesis 1a: RL is preventing them from seeing this thread -> Not posting is NAI

Hypothesis 1b: They have seen this thread and are choosing not to post -> Not posting is AI

Observation 3: This is not Human Sequencers first game (they're here as SE) -> They should know lurking is scummy behavior

Hypothesis 2: If they know lurking is scummy and they are scum, they would post so as to not seem scummy

Conclusion 1: If they are choosing not to post and they know lurking is scummy, it's because they are not interested -> They got a boring role (i.e. not scum and not PR)

I think this thought process is +town

[furtiveglance]

My vote is spiritually on Weuler right now, I'll give Elements like 24 hours before I vote/hammer Weuler to see if Elements comes up with any good arguments for a scumteam that isn't Weuler/Elements or Human/Furtive or Python/anyone (Seeing as I already consider the solve to be Weuler/Elements or Human/Furtive, and know I'm town)

This is giving me pause because it's not at all how I ever think about the game. Why have you decided there are only 2 possible scumteams? Why does each have 2 different members?

[furtiveglance]

The way I see the game is that we have 3 votes, and I see 3 potential scum in Weuler/Elements/Human

[furtiveglance]

If you're sorting Elements as unpaired with anyone but Weuler because their play wouldn't 'make sense' otherwise, then you're wrongly assuming things about Elements as a player.

[furtiveglance]

Python, can you give us anything to rule out Black as possible scum other than your townread? I was kind of leery about how she broke for Dragons at the end of the day, like maybe trying to avert a Weuler elimination.

Furtive, you've played with Elements before, right? Anyone else here you're familiar with besides me?

Completed games it's just you, Elements, Meg, STD (rip in peace)

Saw a bit of 2109 as I said and Weuler is a lot scummier this game.

[furtiveglance]

Completed games it's just you, Elements, Meg, STD (rip in peace)

Saw a bit of 2109 as I said and Weuler is a lot scummier this game.

Yeah, that's what I figured. I realized that you're not being the aggressive hotshot here that I've seen before, but I think that's probably just because there's nobody here you feel the need to boss around like you did with Drew and Gimli in prior games. Elements and I don't seem the sort you'd bother with and obviously you're not going to have any rapport to attempt it with people you don't know.

If I'm solving with the assumption of town!Aureal then Weuler flipping means the following:

1. Weuler flips scum, 1 miselim left
2. Flip Elements, if they flip scum then gg
3. If Elements flips town then 0 miselims left but Human/Furtive interactions in d1 no longer imply a Human/Furtive scumteam in which case flip Black

OR

1. Weuler flips town, 0 miselims left, Black trying to prevent the Weuler elim is no longer scum protecting scum so what exactly stops a tr on Black at that point?

I'm not really clear how 3 works, I gather something to do with the posts around 440? I've got COVID, can you break this down and make it easier for my tired brain to handle?

Sorry for playing badly in that Micro, but in my defence the game was quite inactive and it drove me to do dumb things.

The difference between this game and that Newbie is that my slot isn't under pressure at the moment

[furtiveglance]

I want to point out that we lack information from the Furtive slot. If this day ends prematurely, then our mission tomorrow will be much harder

What more information can I give you?

[furtiveglance]

If you flip me, then head for Elements next. Preferably after a longer day, where you can try to find his partner.

Why aren't you voting for Elements? And why are they your main suspect?

[furtiveglance]

What if Elements hammered on the pagetop

[furtiveglance]

lol.

Elements was never hammering there...'claim or I hammer'

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I dunno, I sorta feel like if it was Weuler and Elements he wouldn't still be slipping up on her pronouns??

I think some people just don't notice that kind of thing

[furtiveglance]

claim or I hammer

What? You're willing to hammer someone you think is town? This feels performative

performative, more like outted

I'm down to flashwagon Elements if people prefer to Weuler, but I want both gone in the next 2 days

[furtiveglance]

I don't think pronouns are really relevant to the game apart from that we should use other players' preferred ones

[furtiveglance]

I get the feeling that it's a win/win at the moment

[furtiveglance]

Let me put it this way: Do you think we would unvote if Weuler claimed PR? I don't think I would. And in the case that we did, we'd pivot to Elements. So it still fits the same solve

[furtiveglance]

Yh but there wouldn't be a conftown, because as you said, Jailkeeper/6 VT setup exists.

[furtiveglance]

We can take time and I'm happy to answer questions, but I can't see my views changing too much

[furtiveglance]

catboi why do you townread Weuler?

Agenda.

[furtiveglance]

Catboi knows it's a lot easier to try and make town look scummy than scum look towny, so it's no wonder he talks as little as he can about Weuler.

[furtiveglance]

You make a point but you have the same main suspicion as weuler, are defending weuler and your predecessor was suspected to be scum with weuler. I don't know what to make of this but I might just be stubborn trying to say I'm not wrong.

catboi is trying to use Python's theory of us together as a springboard to push me and pocket Python.

[furtiveglance]

o noes, someone pushing back against Python, I didn't think that was allowed in this game???

Do you think they're scum?

[furtiveglance]

You make a point but you have the same main suspicion as weuler, are defending weuler and your predecessor was suspected to be scum with weuler. I don't know what to make of this but I might just be stubborn trying to say I'm not wrong.

I have the same main suspicion as Weuler? Last I checked, Weuler is voting

my slot

, so I think it's fair to say I do not share that suspicion!

Further, when I actually asked you to explain why you believe Weuler is scum, you completely dodged the question. I don't want to hear about how I'm defending Weuler because that's a pointless argument - I know I'm town so the whole thing falls apart, and at any rate one player defending hardly means both players are scum together.

You've said weuler has nothing good about his posts, can you elaborate at all on what you don't like about them?

Weuler voted Elements after being prompted to. He also said he was suspicious of me, which was your main scumread when you came in.

[furtiveglance]

Well, maybe I misremembered but it felt to me like Weuler was trying to add me into the POE.

[furtiveglance]

You literally asked me why I think Weuler is town and then immediately shut me down when I post a defense telling me that's not my job.

That was before you posted a two part wall where every line either contradicts itself or can be explained at least as compellingly with a scum!Weuler as with a town!Weuler game. Like even if I accepted every one of the posts there it's still not enough to call for a town read on Weuler while you're scumreading Furtive/Human and Furtive/Black for way less

This is insanely rude and wrongheaded, I think there's a substantial difference in how they're posting to the thread. I don't think what I'm scumreading them for is "way less", it's tuned to specific behaviors of what scum

actually do

. I can look at Weuler's posts and see someone who is actually trying to solve the game in a way I'm not getting with furtive or Human, and further I think furtive is blatantly not playing to his town meta and has almost no substance to his posts. The bar between furtive and Weuler is different because they're different players - I expect town-furtive to be playing analytically and have good thoughts, and his play here is exceptionally lazy.

Firstly, usesPython isn't being rude. Secondly, I'm flattered that you think I usually do more than this as town. The reason I'm not posting loads of analysis is because I don't think it's necessary - I replaced in and found the consensus in a similar place to my own reads, and I want to vote out Weuler. If you want to talk meta, Weuler's towngame in Newbie 2019 is drastically different to this one in content and style.

[furtiveglance]

2091 not 2019^

[furtiveglance]

Sorry, 2109^

[furtiveglance]

I want to hear more from (and talk more to) Aureal and Black at this time.

[furtiveglance]

Firstly, usesPython isn't being rude.

pocketing

The reason I'm not posting loads of analysis is because I don't think it's necessary - I replaced in and found the consensus in a similar place to my own reads, and I want to vote out Weuler. If you want to talk meta, Weuler's towngame in Newbie 2019 is drastically different to this one in content and style.

or perhaps you found the gamestate convenient and favorable to you as scum and so are being lazy to avoid generating too much suspicion.

Regardless, I'll humor you -

how

is Weuler different from that game? You've made that point several times but never elaborated at all.

I think you're the one pocketing usesPython after you came in pushing their exact solve that doesn't include you. If I was scum, I'd just be parroting the consensus rather than pocketing a certain player.

Secondly, here's some posts that Town!Weuler made in Newbie 2109 that he hasn't come close to emulating here:

Spoiler: Town!Weuler

As I am the only town-player that knows for certain that claim 1 above is true, I mention that Consequence 3 given above can also be proven from the following modified claims:

Claim 1': STD is town.

Claim 2': If LLD is scum, then Weuler is not.

Claim 3': If AV is scum, then neither LLD nor Weuler are scum

This is possibly only of interest to STD, as they know whether they are town or not. Obviously I will not write out a motivation as to why Claim 2' or Claim 3' should be true, as they concern me being town. The point is that if you believe all these claims for whatever reason, then consequence 3 is still true.

Let's talk a bit about the people from Consequence 3.

CCG: As I mentioned in 451 I don't like their "passive" posts. As STD wrote in 459, CCG is mostly just posting information about the game instead of analysing.
Arko: Looking back at Space's ISO I don't find it too bad. I don't like Arko's top townreads though.
NK15: I don't have a good read here, but I don't townread NK. Not a lot of analysis done here either. If NK is scum, then a potential scum partner could be STD, as these slots have barely interacted.

Take a look at 461 to see why I have "removed" AV. (This doesn't mean I don't think they can be scum, the point is that I don't think they are scum together with STD or LLD.)

I think you misunderstand my logic if you are criticising me for removing AV without them postung recently. The point is that through just logic one of {LLD,AV, CCG, Arko, NK} is scum. Possibly there are 2 scum here, but no less than 1. Then I have reduced this set to just contain {CCG, Arko, NK}, see post 461, by looking at posts from d1 essentially. This does not mean that the people that were removed from this set are town, it just means that I strongly believe there is at least one scum in {CCG, Arko, NK}. With your reveal, CCG can be removed.

Also: To anyone who feels like it.

Please criticize

Claim 2 and Claim 3 of 461. If you have reason to believe that one of STD/LLD, STD/AV, AV/LLD could be the scum pair, then please explain why. Consequence 3 hinges on Claim 2 and Claim 3 being true so if I have missed something here, please tell me.

Of course you can also critize Claim 1, but I already know that claim is true, so that's mostly for your own sake.

[furtiveglance]

Have any of you analyzed other newbie games that Weuler played in Meta from one game can be fairly unreliable

I don't know if there are any

[furtiveglance]

I don't know if there are any

Newbie 2063 if you're ok with a game from 2021 where they were VT, other than that they've only played in Newbie 2108 (VT) and Newbie 2109 (VT) recently

The more I read the more I agree with myself, Weuler seems like quite a polarised player

[furtiveglance]

Catboi knows it's a lot easier to try and make town look scummy than scum look towny, so it's no wonder he talks as little as he can about Weuler.

This is a good point but kinda nullified by Catboi's extensive towncase on Weuler

What do you think prompted the big case

[furtiveglance]

Catboi knows it's a lot easier to try and make town look scummy than scum look towny, so it's no wonder he talks as little as he can about Weuler.

This is a good point but kinda nullified by Catboi's extensive towncase on Weuler

What do you think prompted the big case

You already know I think it's just Weuler/Catboi here so this comment feels weird and pockety

I didn't know that - you aren't voting

[furtiveglance]

I think we can agree that trying to defend/explain predecessors' posting is impossible, and I won't ask you to account for Elements' play either, catboi.

[furtiveglance]

catboi's worldview doesn't make sense. he says his main read is that I'm scum, and therefore he doesn't think Weuler is aligned with me, but the reason for scumreading me is that I'm coasting along with the consensus, which only makes me scum if Weuler is town. So you have to townread Weuler first in order to scumread me. Does anyone get this, or am I waffling?

[furtiveglance]

catboi's worldview doesn't make sense. he says his main read is that I'm scum, and therefore he doesn't think Weuler is aligned with me, but the reason for scumreading me is that I'm coasting along with the consensus, which only makes me scum if Weuler is town. So you have to townread Weuler first in order to scumread me. Does anyone get this, or am I waffling?

They do townread Weuler in 1116 and 1117 though? Or am I missing something?

But before that, he posted a lot about me.

[furtiveglance]

But before that, he posted a lot about me.

They tr Weuler in 1091 and then start talking about you in 1093

I did miss that

[furtiveglance]

Just me or does this feel like catboi is using chainsaw defence

cast spell

Chainsaw Defence!

[furtiveglance]

Also I didn't like how Arko and Freedom played the furtive slot. I mentioned D1 that I didn't like this slot, and I am wondering whether this is a scum slot that has ended up in more capable hands now

Ask Catboi, I'm bad at scum

[furtiveglance]

Your read on former players can inform your read on the slot as a whole

[furtiveglance]

My read of the game isn't gonna change before we see a flip

[furtiveglance]

Black, can you E-1 Weuler.

[furtiveglance]

Human, do you want some free town points?

[furtiveglance]

Human, do you want some free town points?

What?

I was going to invite you to hammer. I'm itching for Weuler's flip and the dopamine it will bring.

[furtiveglance]

Okay, I've solved, it's Human and Weuler. GG all, especially Taly and Human Sequencer.

I don't know what to say here

Like what if Aureal was just right here? Why did this solve leave Human speechless?

I have some time to go through the thread rn so I'm going to try to get a fresh perspective

imagine!

[furtiveglance]

I think most people consider the .gg 'chat mafia'

[furtiveglance]

Like I said earlier, I think Weuler/Catboi/Human has 2 Mafia

[furtiveglance]

@python/Cat - I don't want to derail the thread with this so I'll just say I appreciate the advice. I feel like I will be more helpful once I get used to the meta and the people that play here. And obviously if Weuler flips scum that will be a small boost to my confidence haha

I have tr'd Human for most of this game because a lot of his weird actions can be explained by him being newtown but now I'm rethinking that

Cat - Do you consider a Weuler/Human team possible or are you still sold on Weuler being town?

Off the top of my headI think it's less likely mainly because if I had to guess, I think the way Human is posturing around the flip suggests he knows Weuler is town.

I think the most likely team is furtive/Human, with maybr a 15% chance it's a comedy world where furtive is trying desperately to bus Weuler and I'm screaming trying to stop him. As much as I think Weuler seems like a miss I think my confidence in python/aureal/you-town is higher than that, so, like, it's

possible

? Human is really crossing my wires right now with how...frantic his responses to me have been, like I want to say he's just outed scum but could be noob flail, I've seen that before so I'm putting a margin of error on my read of him.


I think furtive's last few posts are basically obvscumming in people's faces with the knowledge that people aren't going to call him on it.

I'm at bet the game level of confidence of furtive-scum.

You've watched me play since my first game and you've played with me as both alignments. Can you go into any more detail explaining this read?

[furtiveglance]

Like I said earlier, I think Weuler/Catboi/Human has 2 Mafia

Bet?

I think so yeah.

[furtiveglance]

I don't believe you actually think that.

[furtiveglance]

If you're so confident, flip me today why don't you?

I can do, but I'm slightly more confident on Weuler. If you self-vote I'll hammer you no problem, it's just that Weuler has more support.

[furtiveglance]

If you're so confident, flip me today why don't you?

Why say this if you're not going to go through with it? I'm willing to.

[furtiveglance]

If you're so confident, flip me today why don't you?

Why say this if you're not going to go through with it? I'm willing to.

...because it's bad form to self vote in a newbie game, you know that, come on dude. If the majority of the game decides I'm scum and votes me out I'll take the hit but I have 0 reason to help you along in your goal. It's playing against win condition, there's a whole section in the opening post, you know the deal.

What it comes down to is you know I'm flipping town but want me to self to be able to discredit me and argue I shouldn't be listened to. The reason I am challenging you to a 1v1 in the first place is to gauge your response to it and you're responding more or less how I expect scum to.

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler: Human

No, he just replaced in why do you even have a read on guy who just entered the game

Inherently no, the way he said it kind of

Slow burn gone though so:
Human, what's with the aggression in

No, he just replaced in why do you even have a read on guy who just entered the game

I feel like it is a bit quick to have a read on someone but elements is elements to be fair I did feel like elements was being dumb when I had made that post.

And as a follow up: why is it strange for Elements to have a read on Freedom already when his predecessor posted their reads already before replacing

Honestly fair

This all looks really aimless to me. Posting for posting's sake. I feel like if Human is Mafia, his partner hasn't given him any advice whatsoever, and it's easier for me to see Human as a complete noob just openly exploring the game.

The way I see the game is that we have 3 votes, and I see 3 potential scum in Weuler/Elements/Human

Like I said earlier, I think Weuler/Catboi/Human has 2 Mafia

So human is a complete noob who is aimlessly exploring the game, but then he's a potential mafia suspect and one of the 3 players you're willing to elim, is that correct?

It's called townreads + poe. Python/Black/Aureal are my stronger TRs

[furtiveglance]

Like I said earlier, I think Weuler/Catboi/Human has 2 Mafia

Bet?

I think so yeah.

You

think

so? Are you actually sus at all of me/Python/Black because I haven't seen that? Or is it your own alignment?

I think so is a turn of phrase answering in the affirmative, quite a common one.

[furtiveglance]

When I look at what's happened today, I see Cat exploring and hunting scum, while Furtive's reads are set in stone. I just don't see town acting like Furtive at all. Together with the play from HS and Freedom I am quite certain that I should
VOTE: Furtive

This looks coached. I'll give you 3 guesses as to who by

[furtiveglance]

Lmao. I don't spoonfeed my partners posts, but even in that hypothetical world, what are you saying my strategy is supposed to be? "stop bussing and push furtive with me, no one will suspect a thing?" come the hell on.

You're far smarter than to think this is something that actually happens in game.

But if you're so confident you've got the solve, no worries, right?

Why not? In the you/Weuler world, it's literally desperate times, because 3-4 of the 4 remaining town have you both as scum and paired.

[furtiveglance]

right yes and my play is to go coach my teammate to make it look obvious we're paired? Again, what is the endgame even supposed to be there?

There's absolutely no way you actually believe that would happen. That's not...what scum do. Ad you know as much. You cannot possibly be this bad.

Scum are cornered -> can't bus because town already have them paired -> might as well open pair and make a decent push.

What's wrong with that logic?

[furtiveglance]

Listen catboi, call me bad all you want. If we flip Weuler today, I'm golden, and I think you know it.

[furtiveglance]

Actually screw it I think I need to make the meta case because it's pretty apparent you're just openwolfing in my face but the only actual way I can point this out is via side by side comparison

But why are you so worried? Let's say in the world in which I'm scum and Weuler is town. As soon as Weuler flips, I'll look bad, right? So you'll be able to eliminate me tomorrow.

[furtiveglance]

Actually screw it I think I need to make the meta case because it's pretty apparent you're just openwolfing in my face but the only actual way I can point this out is via side by side comparison

But why are you so worried? Let's say in the world in which I'm scum and Weuler is town. As soon as Weuler flips, I'll look bad, right? So you'll be able to eliminate me tomorrow.

1. I'd rather kill the obvious scum today and use that momentum the next day
2. I've seen town do silly things before and when it only takes one wrong vote to lose anything can happen
3. you're not going to lay down and accept death tomorrow and we both know that, if weuler flips town you come in and claim I had TMI and was posturing around the flip

Time to lay my cards on the table. I haven't been this confident on a flip for a very long time. Weuler is Mafia. If I'm wrong on that, town probably will lose. Obviously there might be another PR alive (another reason to vote Weuler out now that he's claimed), and there are other things to consider, so I won't self-vote or anything if I'm wrong, but I'm aware if I'm wrong we probably do lose.

[furtiveglance]

If I'm

worried

I don't offer to 1v1 you. (Which still stands, btw - are you the one who's too scared to accept?) I have nothing to hide because I know my flip will vindicate me, and I would let the town eliminate me with its remaining ML to prove that, but I do not want to be the game-losing elimination.

I think this is just grandstanding, and I'm going to use my posts today to talk to other players.

[furtiveglance]

I explained a few times and even quoted posts from previous games.

Aureal, what are your current reads?

[furtiveglance]

Why are me/Human now equivalent with Weuler/Catboi? Are you reading the thread?

[furtiveglance]

I explained a few times and even quoted posts from previous games.

Aureal, what are your current reads?

I just looked at your iso and you haven't really made a Weuler case at all? You've said it over and over again that he's scummy but the only evidence you're giving is his meta from another game and the fact that he's linked with Elements/Cat

If you are this confident in the read could you point out specific scummy things from Weuler this game?

Everyone else (including previously Aureal) is doing so much more than Weuler. I can tell which players (for the most part) really want to solve and which don't.

[furtiveglance]

Can no one else see that Weuler's contribution is so much weaker than 1) his towngame in 2109 and 2) everyone else alive in this game?

[furtiveglance]

catboi are you coming round?

[furtiveglance]

I might be

[furtiveglance]

yes, it was sus

[furtiveglance]

I don't really like Human's panicking before the lim yesterday. They have been solidly sitting on my townlist for some time, but that might need to change. I made the mistake of strongly townreading scum in my last game

also I guess looking at this now it's very awkward - it's gesturing toward suspecting human rather than actually re-evaluating him or anything and like, shrug, I could see it as distancing

flashback to when I offered Human townpoints for hammering Weuler and he just acted confused

[furtiveglance]

Right now my current solve is pretty much the same as before but with a minor difference because the original didn't really care much beyond Weuler/catboi and Human/furtive scumteams:

1) Flip Weuler
2ai) If Weuler flips scum, flip catboi
2aii) If catboi flips town, flip Human
2b) If Weuler flips town, flip a Human/furtive scumteam

Reason I'd rather not flip Human or furtive first is twofold:

1. Human/furtive is the only non-Weuler scumteam I have so testing that first is optimal
2.

catboi is self-admittedly a really good scum player.

Given that the vibe of the thread went from town patting themselves on the back going "gg we caught Weuler/Elements" to a wall warzone where suddenly Human/furtive and Human/Weuler are viable pairs it's twigging my scum radar. I think catboi is a good enough scum player that I'd rather trust the reads I developed before they replaced in instead of risking getting sheeped, at least until those reads are proven wrong

Python, are you an alt? I don't recall catboi bragging about being good at scum this game.

[furtiveglance]

I, Aureal, would love the day to end ASAP with a Weuler elimination.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah you'll be sorry!

[furtiveglance]

(lol)

[furtiveglance]

Here we go

into the unKNOWN!

[furtiveglance]

imagine if I set T-Bone up

[furtiveglance]

for a pagetop flip

[furtiveglance]

Hey guys. I still think it's catboi or Human.

[furtiveglance]

Think Meg was killed because they were a replacement and Python was generally a logical townie could have been lucky though

Meg was killed for replacing in?

Why were the other replacements safe?

[furtiveglance]

Good question but why else would Meg be killed?

good reads? widely townread? PR vibes?

[furtiveglance]

And the vote on Day 1 is a lot more significant than Day 2 - keep in mind scum knew D2 the only remaining PR was a FN and thus it was completely safe to bus

Is it completely cynical of me to sense an agenda here? I don't think so...

[furtiveglance]

And the vote on Day 1 is a lot more significant than Day 2 - keep in mind scum knew D2 the only remaining PR was a FN and thus it was completely safe to bus

Is it completely cynical of me to sense an agenda here? I don't think so...

My agenda is catching scum, sir. If you are town I will try to figure that out but making snide remarks at me isn't going to help anyone scumhunt.

Well from a purely gameplay point of view then, why does knowing Town's power role equate to the scum win condition changing to voting out mafia instead of town, when if town was hammered yesterday mafia would have won?

[furtiveglance]

I thought it was 4:2 yesterday my bad

[furtiveglance]

Also the elements/weuler scum team makes little scene first person in the slot aggressively busses and then their replacement defends heavily? I feel like wueler might have told catboi the gameplan or at least cat Oi would have understood what elements was doing might be making assumptions though

You should be aware that looking town at all costs is scum's primary goal in this game

[furtiveglance]

I want to flip Catboi today because either we win, or in the event that he is town, I will never be comfortable with a townread on him. So it's best to resolve his slot now.

[furtiveglance]

I want to flip Catboi today because either we win, or in the event that he is town, I will never be comfortable with a townread on him. So it's best to resolve his slot now.

I think I'm plenty readable as town if you actually try to find me right now rather than just repeating ad nauseam that it's me into the thread. I am not asking you to do that because I think the game is winnable regardless, but if you're town it would help you learn to be a better player if you actually tried to read me rather writing me off.

I fully understand that there are lingering issues with the slot inherited from Elements that I can't really do anything about and if you have issues with those that's entirely fair. I still object to you choosing to play by treating me like a NPC.

If we forget Elements for a second, your progression on Weuler is suspect to me. It went from hard defending him, to suddenly thinking he could be scum.

[furtiveglance]

I want Aureal to talk more before I vote

[furtiveglance]

If we forget Elements for a second, your progression on Weuler is suspect to me. It went from hard defending him, to suddenly thinking he could be scum.

Right. I've gone into why I made that mistake, so I won't wear you out with repeating that, but let me ask: do you actually think that is a remotely logical path of play for me to take as scum?

Further, have you ever actually seen scum play that way? Honest question, not trying to be leading or rhetorical here.

I don't believe that either 'logical' or 'precedented' are reliable criteria for finding scum. The better question is whether or not I can see scum motivation in your play, and I can.

[furtiveglance]

I thought it was 4:2 yesterday my bad

actually I want to be a pest about this (sorry). You weren't acting like it was MELO yestterday by the way you were posting. Did you actually think it was 4:2 then?

No I didn't.

I briefly thought it was 4:2 yesterday earlier in this day phase.

[furtiveglance]

If we forget Elements for a second, your progression on Weuler is suspect to me. It went from hard defending him, to suddenly thinking he could be scum.

Right. I've gone into why I made that mistake, so I won't wear you out with repeating that, but let me ask: do you actually think that is a remotely logical path of play for me to take as scum?

Further, have you ever actually seen scum play that way? Honest question, not trying to be leading or rhetorical here.

Gonna respond to this again because it's grating on me.

• Scum want to win.
  
• It's easier to win if scum don't get voted out.
  
• You defended Weuler all day long until right at the end, extremely vehemently.
  
• You're now trying to argue that this actually makes you Town.
  
• It does not.

I'm almost (almost!) at the point of quoting your own posts about Weuler back at you. But there's no point in doing that.

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler: catboi

If we forget Elements for a second, your progression on Weuler is suspect to me. It went from hard defending him, to suddenly thinking he could be scum.

Right. I've gone into why I made that mistake, so I won't wear you out with repeating that, but let me ask: do you actually think that is a remotely logical path of play for me to take as scum?

Further, have you ever actually seen scum play that way? Honest question, not trying to be leading or rhetorical here.

I don't believe that either 'logical' or 'precedented' are reliable criteria for finding scum. The better question is whether or not I can see scum motivation in your play, and I can.

Then you don't understand what scum motivation actually is!

What you've done is string together a bunch of surface-levely associations that aren't actually meaningful. When we talk about 'scum motivation', we're talking about actionsthat are dome for the sake of furthering the scum win condition. Now, scum can defend a teammate or they can throw them under the bus. But they rarely ever pivot between the two that rapidly because what's the point? Generally speaking,

bussing

is done to receive

towncred

for voting out a teammate. Staging an

all-out defense

for 24 hours prior to that is a great way to make that vote look useless. Scum just...aren't that careless, I'm sorry.
It's perfectly possible to me that you defended Weuler and pushed me instead for as long as you thought it might work, and when it appeared that Town was set in their ways, you decided

This is what happens with mafia players: they get hung up on things that "look bad" but have literally nothing with what scum actually do. The things you find scummy are just as easily explained by me being uninformed. Scum almost never do things that "look bad" in terms of associations like that, because they are informed of their teammates and are usually careful to avoid associations like that.


Why is it more likely that I am partnered with Weuler, rather than a townie who had an incorrect read and reversed it after being presented with evidence to change my mind?

How often do you actually catch scum using the reasoning you're applying to me?

It's perfectly possible to me that you defended Weuler and pushed me instead for as long as you thought it might work, and when it appeared that Town was set in their ways, you decided to 'change your read' in a way you might think looks towny. Or, you could have decided from the point of your arrival into the game to dedicate your time to faking a 'plausible' progression on Weuler, knowing that his elimination was highly likely. Wanting to look uninformed is a massive motivation for scum.

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler: catboi

If we forget Elements for a second, your progression on Weuler is suspect to me. It went from hard defending him, to suddenly thinking he could be scum.

Right. I've gone into why I made that mistake, so I won't wear you out with repeating that, but let me ask: do you actually think that is a remotely logical path of play for me to take as scum?

Further, have you ever actually seen scum play that way? Honest question, not trying to be leading or rhetorical here.

I don't believe that either 'logical' or 'precedented' are reliable criteria for finding scum. The better question is whether or not I can see scum motivation in your play, and I can.

Then you don't understand what scum motivation actually is!

What you've done is string together a bunch of surface-levely associations that aren't actually meaningful. When we talk about 'scum motivation', we're talking about actionsthat are dome for the sake of furthering the scum win condition. Now, scum can defend a teammate or they can throw them under the bus. But they rarely ever pivot between the two that rapidly because what's the point? Generally speaking,

bussing

is done to receive

towncred

for voting out a teammate. Staging an

all-out defense

for 24 hours prior to that is a great way to make that vote look useless. Scum just...aren't that careless, I'm sorry.
It's perfectly possible to me that you defended Weuler and pushed me instead for as long as you thought it might work, and when it appeared that Town was set in their ways, you decided

This is what happens with mafia players: they get hung up on things that "look bad" but have literally nothing with what scum actually do. The things you find scummy are just as easily explained by me being uninformed. Scum almost never do things that "look bad" in terms of associations like that, because they are informed of their teammates and are usually careful to avoid associations like that.


Why is it more likely that I am partnered with Weuler, rather than a townie who had an incorrect read and reversed it after being presented with evidence to change my mind?

How often do you actually catch scum using the reasoning you're applying to me?

It's perfectly possible to me that you defended Weuler and pushed me instead for as long as you thought it might work, and when it appeared that Town was set in their ways, you decided to 'change your read' in a way you might think looks towny. Or, you could have decided from the point of your arrival into the game to dedicate your time to faking a 'plausible' progression on Weuler, knowing that his elimination was highly likely. Wanting to look uninformed is a massive motivation for scum.

That progression is something I might fake outside the newbie queue where that sort of 3D chess play would be rewarded, but in here people are far more likely to grasp at the most surface level associations and I'm very aware of that, I'd bus without hesitation given a clean slate, or at the minimum try to let my partner save themselves rather than immediately go to war when that might not even be successful.

I even have a recent model for throwing my partner under the bus as scum when they weren't capable, and it was nothing like this: viewtopic.php?t=90032

I think the value of this particular topic is limited given that in order to believe your argument, I need to first trust that you're telling the truth about what you 'would do' as scum, which I'm sure is understandably difficult. Also, why would you repeat the same tactic as before in a similar situation? It's surely better to do something unexpected.

But yeah, self-meta is rarely useful.

[furtiveglance]

Okay, anyway, I'm having fun ripping furtive's surface level reasoning to shreds here because frankly he's playing like a jackass and it's obnoxious

Sorry for obnoxiously parking on Weuler yesterday, and repeatedly urging everyone to vote him. What a jackass I am. What bad townplay.

[furtiveglance]

just lim me and then furtive

Thought you'd never ask

VOTE: catboi

[furtiveglance]

Confused confusing confusion

I'm not responding rationally because I'm playing frustrated, because furtive if town is frankly a disgusting player. I think he's intentionally trying to provoke me as a tactic.

You called me a jackass and an obnoxious player after I spent time carefully unpacking your waffle. So yeah, you're a clown for that, regardless of your alignment.

But sure, I'm a disgusting player.

[furtiveglance]

I'd like to hear Aureal's thoughts on this

or on anything

[furtiveglance]

Human being scum is possible, but less likely for me.

[furtiveglance]

The last Mafia needs 2 miseliminations, not just one. The easiest way to do that is to be townread yourself, and towning other players can sometimes make that happen.

[furtiveglance]

Exactly

[furtiveglance]

Thing is I TR everyone else if I were scum I would have to convince you all I’m town despite there being basically no other suspects as I said furtive/weuler doesn’t make much sense considering the slots aggression towards weuler

You TR catboi?

I think Human means everyone else, not catboi

[furtiveglance]

Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's just catboi here.

Aureal, are you willing to vote catboi today?

[furtiveglance]

Probably, yeah. Either him or Human. Just trying to consider how the next day will go if we get it wrong.

Do you think it's catboi or Human?

[furtiveglance]

Like, what even was the case on Elements? She was wrong about Save the Dragons and Weuler. Doesn't make her scum though. I've seen her do crazier stuff than the "claim or I'll hammer" that people so much didn't like.

The case is wrong on both eliminations and the weird associatives with Weuler

[furtiveglance]

need to read this game some more

[furtiveglance]

Weuler/Catboi (Elements): A gruesome twosome

Spoiler: RVS vote, fluffposting

VOTE: Elements for trying to pocket me

unless the reaction that is being tested is to you saying you are reaction testing...

Now you ruined the second-order reaction test

Weuler, can I persuade you to VOTE: Taly?

I prefer to vote for people who have made a post

Could also just be town

Is there anything in this game that doesn't have multiple interpretations?

Spoiler: complex read on Elements

I'm not really sure what's going on with elements. I didn't get this chaotic impression from 2108

This just seems weird both from a town!!elements and a scum!!elements (note the double negation @Aureal) perspective

I'm not really sure what's going on with elements. I didn't get this chaotic impression from 2108

You didn't?

No I got a more authorative "town leader" impression

Spoiler: Elements in POE but votes STD

I want to UNVOTE: for now because I think after Elements vote on herself she's at e-2. Discussion is picking up and I don't think the Day should end yet

Do you think elements might get quickhammered? The ele wagon just started

No, but I don't get it. What are you two trying to pressure me to do?

Are you asking if votes have a purpose other than for limming?

You want to lim Black over StD or Freedom?

That remains to be seen, there is still lots of daytime left

If we had to lim right now, who would you want it to be?

One of STD, You, Arko or Black. Do you want me to specify further?

Definitely not Arko because he's being prodded. I need to look into STD more. So right now, you or Black. Probably you, because I did not at all like your chaotic acting earlier, followed by what I perceived to be a sudden drop in activity

Give StD another read through and tell me how any of it is town

Yep, that is one odd iso. Started out with some reads and then decided to hyperfocus on you. Could a townie do this? Perhaps if they are convinced you are scum, but then I don't see why they aren't trying to push harder in that case.

Also and mostly because I'm town

Ah your argument was just a townslip, I see

I think both Elements and STD are good targets for elimination. Let's see how serious Ele is about his sr on std.
UNVOTE: Black
VOTE: STD

Spoiler: Asking Elements' opinion on other players despite 'scumreading' them

I think both Elements and STD are good targets for elimination. Let's see how serious Ele is about his sr on std.
UNVOTE: Black
VOTE: STD

VOTE: freedom

Not that serious I guess

I was waiting for you to say this

Well, there you go. What made you go from not seeing any way that STD is town, to voting someone else?

I think the scum team is StD Freedom
I hadn't moved my vote in a while so I thought I'd move it

Are they the scum team by virtue of both being the scummiest, or by the interaction between them together with scumminess?

VOTE: Human

Do you think Human has similar vibes to Cactus had?

Do you?

VOTE: Human

Do you think Human has similar vibes to Cactus had?

Do you?

I can see similarities to day 2 cactus but I am wondering if it's because both their pfps are green

Ah I never got to experience d2 cactus thanks to certain people
I don't find d1 cactus and human to be alike at all

Spoiler: Elements now Weuler's top scumread but no vote to back it up

@Elements, Freedom's and STD's iso gives me similar vibes. I note that in my earlier games, the two scum players have given off quite different vibes

I really liked my conversation with STD from yesterday (i.e. 12 hours ago). His responses didn't feel artificial. My highest scumreads are still Elements/STD but STD is now second on that list

Spoiler: Weirdly explained progression here

My plan was to go after Elements if STD flips red, but I'm not sure how to interpret the Elements hammer

Looks like I was wrong about their partner, but for now I think this is a good vote
VOTE: Elements

Now to make sense of Element's hammer

A brief analysis of the hammer:

TownElements: She said she would rather get STD than me, so from that perspective the hammer isn't too weird. Especially if she was thinking that Human might move away his vote.

ScumElements: One reason for not hammering me instead of STD is that I was also pushing the STD wagon. Hence, STD flipping green would mean that I would be the prime suspect D2. On the other hand, if she hammered me, then this would not really implicate STD, so a hammer on STD could be a way to get 2 townlims with a high probability.

NAI analysis: My read of elements is that she is the type of player that prefers to drop the hammer herself. Then if she suspects both me and STD, hammering STD could be nicer than letting Meg hammer me.

The scum reasons aren't really that convincing. For now
UNVOTE: Elements
This is only for the hammer though. I might change my mind when I read through her iso again, I recall there being quite a few things I didn't like

Spoiler: alert: Elements did not hammer

claim or I hammer

I am VT

Spoiler: classic distancing

If you flip me, then head for Elements next. Preferably after a longer day, where you can try to find his partner.

Spoiler: excuse for not voting Elements

If you flip me, then head for Elements next. Preferably after a longer day, where you can try to find his partner.

Why aren't you voting for Elements? And why are they your main suspect?

They were my biggest suspect D1. I am not voting because I didn't anticipate that the day would possibly end so fast, and I still need time to sit down and look at ISO:s. Probably not something I will have time to do today either

Spoiler: weirdly explained progression part 2

VOTE: Elements

Also I am voting cat because of Element's weird hammer threat yesterday. In the moment I was concerned with writing stuff before being limmed, but now I realize that threat just doesn't make sense. Seems like scum anxious to get to 2v3.

Cat feels more towny than elements, but I'm wary about replacements to suspected slots, as it seems like replacing in has a tendency to clear any slot.

I think Cat's analysis comes from a town perspective. I scumread the slot initially because Elements was acting very chaotically, but looking back at 2108 I could see this being town. The vote on me is still weird, but we won't get an explanation of that now. And possibly it might have to do with Element's "nonfunctional mafia brain" as she described it herself, especially considering the relatively quick replacement.

When I look at what's happened today, I see Cat exploring and hunting scum, while Furtive's reads are set in stone. I just don't see town acting like Furtive at all. Together with the play from HS and Freedom I am quite certain that I should
VOTE: Furtive

[furtiveglance]

^This slot cannot endgame. Vote with me today.

[furtiveglance]

My mind is made up

[furtiveglance]

I think Human is just weirdchamp town at this point

[furtiveglance]

I think Human is just weirdchamp town at this point

Did you go through the Human/Weuler interactions? They are weirder than Weuler/Elements imo. Well, except for the catboi entrance and complete 180 on Weuler. That was pretty wild and I still haven't forgotten about that

I made my case, why don't you make a similar one for Human.

[furtiveglance]

If I am, then victory is literally within your grasp

[furtiveglance]

No regrets. If you try and kill me over the Mafia I'm pushing, it makes sense that I think it's you

[furtiveglance]

The least you can do is acknowledge you were wrong and change your reads based on it - maintaining the push on me after Weuler's flip and trying to towncase yourself for defending him was egregious

[furtiveglance]

No regrets. If you try and kill me over the Mafia I'm pushing, it makes sense that I think it's you

well, if you're town you should probably regret your shit tunnel because it's going to lose the game, but I think you're just scum so shrug

No, you were the one shit tunnelling me as I pushed on mafia

[furtiveglance]

I've got a lot of time for this discussion because I repped in and played well, whereas you scumsided completely and spammed up the game with nonsense

[furtiveglance]

If you think you played well or hold me accountable in the event that we lose, you're deluded.

[furtiveglance]

If you'd had some humility and recognised I was outed town for D2, I might have found you as town. Calling me a jackass after I literally carried you into a scum elim just made me see you as scum trying to gaslight everyone.

[furtiveglance]

1/2 is better than being wrong all game

[furtiveglance]

If you'd had some humility and recognised I was outed town for D2, I might have found you as town. Calling me a jackass after I literally carried you into a scum elim just made me see you as scum trying to gaslight everyone.

cry about it

Calling me an obnoxious jackass...

You were so blinded by your own ego that you refused to consider being wrong even when Weuler flipped...

Nothing else to say

[furtiveglance]

I guess that's true.

[furtiveglance]

I was happy to wait - I voted you when you voted me

[furtiveglance]

I'm not too sure at the moment. I'm obviously happy to have the hammer

[furtiveglance]

I do have to do some work for the next 4 hours though

[furtiveglance]

Human part of the reason it's hard to read you is because you post quite short posts, can you say any more?

[furtiveglance]

OMGUS AMOGUS

I've got a few days to decide. I'm busy today though. I don't like it when players do the 'you scum, no you' in F3 so you two should probably address stuff to me from now on.

[furtiveglance]

Maybe T-Bone did the funny and you're both mafia

[furtiveglance]

I will return in literally 5 hours

-pap-

[furtiveglance]

ΔΜØŇǤ ỮŞ ඞ.

Hmmm who could be sus

[furtiveglance]

All I know for sure is that there is an Impostor among us

[furtiveglance]

Human, sorry if you mentioned before, but have you played offsite?

Do you usually consider yourself a good town player?

[furtiveglance]

Do you play IRL? On other websites?

[furtiveglance]

What's your username on mafia.gg?

[furtiveglance]

I don't think I played with you then

[furtiveglance]

Am I allowed to consult ChatGPT?

[furtiveglance]

I know I'm late to the trend, lol

[furtiveglance]

Am I allowed to consult ChatGPT?

PLEASE do this and post the results. I wanna know what it thinks when you ask it if black or human is scum lol

I did this LMFAO

with 1 post of yours each that I quoted. Posts that were fairly long, without quotes.

It gave the usual waffle of 'hard to say' etc but when I pressed it for an answer it gave me a decision.

[furtiveglance]

Pagetop question to both players:

We three are the catboi voters.

At what point did you realise catboi was town?

[furtiveglance]

I'll tell you in postgame

[furtiveglance]

It seemed pretty obvious he was town right after the hammer and he started saying a bunch of stuff that wasn't just "gg"

You thought it was Human though right? What made you vote catboi in the end?

[furtiveglance]

inch resting

[furtiveglance]

inch resting = when a player is so undecided that their decision rests on a metaphorical inch of difference between players

[furtiveglance]

Maybe their views have since changed. Who knows what they're saying in the dead chat

[furtiveglance]

[furtiveglance]

Meg was killed for replacing in I thought

[furtiveglance]

No I don't. You know that I don't know

[furtiveglance]

pap

[furtiveglance]

Isn't Mike the brains of the operation?

[furtiveglance]

Do I need a new pfp then?

What, Sully?

[furtiveglance]

Pls no rickroll

[furtiveglance]

[furtiveglance]

You go here

[furtiveglance]

Here's an outside-the-box question for you guys:

If you could resurrect a dead town player and swap them in for me today, who would it be and why?

[furtiveglance]

Python I guess? still would die though

Pessimistic. Which dead town do you think might vote Black?

[furtiveglance]

Under sided

[furtiveglance]

Human where did your avatar go

[furtiveglance]

It's fine now, maybe it just didn't load earlier.

[furtiveglance]

Today's questions:

Do you think you're better as town or mafia?
Describe a game in which you won as each.
How do you feel about your play this game?

[furtiveglance]

For 2, you must have won some games before. Are there none you remember?

As for 3, if you're town you did have a scumread on 1 Mafia, and voted the other in F3 as well. What do you regret so much about the game?

[furtiveglance]

Black, can you answer my questions as well?

[furtiveglance]

Black, can you answer my questions as well?

I was working on it but the scum slip caught me off guard

Can you honestly say that's a slip?

I've never been skiing before, and I'm not skiing right now.

[furtiveglance]

Can you honestly say that's a slip?

I don't think you realize in this situation I know Human is scum. If it's not a slip then it's not coming from a town perspective either

That's not how this works

[furtiveglance]

...and I don't know.

[furtiveglance]

Good to get that cleared up

[furtiveglance]

You can wait :3

[furtiveglance]

Who should I hammer?

Type 1 for Black
Type 2 for Human

[furtiveglance]

Wait, did no one claim Python's N1 message?

[furtiveglance]

That's because I got it, and I was scum the whole time

[furtiveglance]

I could waste some more days

[furtiveglance]

Let me go read some more

[furtiveglance]

Let's finish it on page 69.

This was my first F3 as town, sorry if wrong.

VOTE: Human

[furtiveglance]

Human were you town?

[furtiveglance]

I'll wait for the flip before I say anything

[furtiveglance]

You're killing me lol

I'll just try and ignore this game for a bit

[furtiveglance]

Noooooooo

I need to retire from mafia

[furtiveglance]

Noooooooooooooooooooooo

[furtiveglance]

I feel bad

[furtiveglance]

ChatGPT did say Human, I guess AI can't tell when ppl are lying