Newbie 2117 | Postgame

[usesPython]

Yo Black, been a while. You break your streak of rolling scum in newbie games yet?

VOTE: brzeczyszczykiewicz

I'd love to get to know a bit about yall! I'm just kinda curious how long yall have been playing mafia, your favorite role or alignment to be, and pronouns to call you by, cause I don't think many of you have pronouns listed on the site (and I'd like to refer to you correctly!)

We're plural but both of us are fine with they/them, we tend not to sign our posts because half the time we don't even know which one of us is writing it but we can try if y'all need it. Most of our experience comes from 1k hours in Town of Salem and my favorite role/alignment is Cult as long as no one throws because they got culted

[usesPython]

Hey, why would you vote for me? Because I'm Polish? Kinda disappointed, since I use Python too

Wiz, why is mafia your favorite alignment? You enjoy manipulating?

Oh cool scummiest entrance so far. OMGUSes me for voting them but doesn't vote back (scared of getting into a fight early?) then somehow reads

My favourite alignment is mafia tho things have changed and I now prefer to be town.

as saying Wiz currently prefers mafia and casts shade with "You enjoy manipulating?"

[usesPython]

And usesPython: your answer just let me realize that you're a scum and want to put me into queue to get lynched, while you can keep manipulating the town

So why haven't you voted for me then?

wiz, you don't make sense at all, you say I'm scared of getting into a fight while SIMULTANEOUSLY accusing me of casting shade on others?

You're mixing up names, I'm the one pushing you here

[usesPython]

Also you can cast shade on others without actually getting into a fight, it's actually pretty easy to do

[usesPython]

Also you can cast shade on others without actually getting into a fight, it's actually pretty easy to do

It's in fact so easy to do you literally did it like 5 posts ago

Hey, why would you vote for me? Because I'm Polish? Kinda disappointed, since I use Python too

Wiz, why is mafia your favorite alignment? You enjoy manipulating?

I used to enjoy being an informed minority but as I continued playing I found it's hard for me to lie so now I always wish to be a town.

[usesPython]

Btw brzeczyszczykiewicz the L-word is banned on this site, if you wanna talk about voting someone out eliminate tends to be the most common way to refer to that

[usesPython]

So why haven't you voted for me then?

Guess I'm just not gonna get an answer to this then

[usesPython]

Why would I already vote for you if I have 10 days for that? You sound kinda anxious regarding the votes. As a town I'm an open-minded person. Will observe you, though.

Might be different from where you normally play but here anyone who hammers this early tends to get limmed the next day. Since you consider me scum the logical next move as town is to vote me to create pressure, force my supposed partner to either help or bus me which creates associatives, etc.

So that raises the question: why haven't you voted me?

As a town I'm an open-minded person.

And usesPython: your answer just let me realize that you're a scum and want to put me into queue to get lynched, while you can keep manipulating the town

For someone who's pretty open-minded as town you sure made up your mind quick didn't you?

[usesPython]

In my previous games votes would be hidden, so that's why I haven't voted for you.

Where'd you play before if you don't mind me asking?

[usesPython]

Interesting posts by brzeczyszczykiewicz. At least worthy of analysis. OMGUS is surely sus, specially when not paired with a vote. Then again, that interaction with usesPython is kind of sketchy as well. There are already some interesting things going on here.

Interesting... hahahaa.
I already voted, for usesPython. Changing my vote this early and quickly would only bring more suspicion into myself. And I have them both under my eye, as that interaction seemed a bit forced to me.

Inch resting.

Elaborate on your reads? You think the awkwardness is scum vs scum or scum vs town?

[usesPython]

Hahahahaha totally! I find that in online mafia you need to try and make a good first impression or you'll be killed quickly. But I'm gonna take Andante's wonderful advice and be myself, we'll see what that brings.

The trick is to everyday scumcase someone better than anyone can scumcase you

From a quick overview: Black good points about Wiz.

good points? interesting, I didn't feel like they were even game related? like, I've played MU, I'm guessing Wiz has same username there, there's literally a "favorite alignment" thing, didn't want to get called out for it, makes sense, not sure how anything Black said was really a "good point" though

and that's enough for you to start thinking Black town? even though it wasn't related at all to this game?

Black has this jedi mind trick where they vibe town even as scum. Their scumtell in the first game I played with them was just mirroring everyone else's reads, but no idea if they've stopped doing that

[usesPython]

@chao - you mentioned people thought you were scum for changing your votes so much. Were they right about you or were you displaying this type of voting behavior as town?

Hey, great question!
When it happened (and thus, when I decided to change my patterns haha), I was a vanilla townie, killed on a day phase, wrongfully.

If the meta favored swapping votes as town here would you change your playstyle to swapping votes as town again?

[usesPython]

Yall crazy here about vote changing. Yall need some hidden votes and calm.

It's a convenient shorthand for who the thread sees as sus, if peoples reads are changing you should expect to see the votes change as well

[usesPython]

UNVOTE:
yeah no im not voting python, they're town, you don't just give away how you read someone as scum

Interesting, why'd you discount the possibility of a Black/Python scumteam where I ask Black if that's still their meta and they tell me they changed it?

[usesPython]

Like you already SR Black, why wouldn't Black/Python be a thing?

[usesPython]

It is page 4, and no one is doing much game related, I'm not exactly commiting to a partner read right now. idk why you want me to sr you so much

Scum tend to have an easier time tr'ing people than sr'ing, so if I see a tr on me with flawed reasoning I wanna see if it's scum making something up to give a tr or town just messing up their reasoning

[usesPython]

UNVOTE:
yeah no im not voting python,

they're town

, you don't just give away how you read someone as scum

I literally said I liked the 1 thing because people generally don't just hand out their tells as scum. It's not like I locked you away as town in my books, it's more, I don't feel like pressuring you right now, I voted you solely because someone else was, and we need to pressure someone with the rvs votes, you gave that tell, and I was like, ok, I don't really want to push someone who is more likely than not going to be town.

I will make it really clear to you,

I do not tr you

. I just said that was a good line

Interesting

[usesPython]

UNVOTE: brz

VOTE: Andante

[usesPython]

do you want me to vote you? I can?? I don't see where this is going

Why is what I want you to do important?

[usesPython]

Like you said it yourself

As I said earlier, I wouldn't let let 1 or 2 times result in you having to change from how you like to play/what feels best, cause to me, that would be more of a scum move "I'm scum this game, so I'm going to be playing differently, since obviously I'm not trying to find my partner, so let me just use this as an excuse for why I'm playing different,

rather than just playing as I do, and trying to find scum! regardless of what others think of my methods

"

[usesPython]

ok look, can we talk or something, I am not scum. yes I agree scum find it easier to TR people, that being said, there is 0 reason to SR ANYONE RIGHT NOW.

VOTE: Black

of the people posting, she's who I sr the most, but at least 1 of Mala/nothingNew are very likely scum

Aren't you contradicting yourself here?

Wouldn't you agree, me generating conversation, figuring out how experienced people are at mafia - is a TOWNY BEHAVIOR
me just being here so much - IS A TOWNY BEHAVIOR

It's NAI, scum can hyperpost too

like, this 1v1 or whatever is literally just keeping people from posting, I'm not sure of your goal at all, I feel like I've been nothing but towny?

Bah, it's not a real 1v1 unless is spans multiple days of hyperwalling

[usesPython]

UNVOTE:
and you're not using my vote to vote anyone out while I'm gone

Do you actually think a hammer is going to go through this early before you get prodded?

[usesPython]

Do you actually think a hammer is going to go through this early before you get prodded?

Like that would imply you think a hammer can go through in two and a half days

[usesPython]

Yeah, Black, that confuses me too. But I already suspected usesPython. One of them would be clean, they wouldn't have this weird convo otherwise. I think we could check them both, if one's green, the other's red and vice versa. Let's wait for other players to elaborate.

You're gonna be waiting quite a bit for that flip then, most d1's here tend to last ~30 pages

[usesPython]

What are flips?

When you die you "flip" and everyone sees your role PM, so a person flipping means that person died (regardless of cause)

[usesPython]

I need to see how many eliminations we have in this setup (what accuracy rate we need to win) to win. I'm used to bigger sessions, where we could 'spare' an elimination to get rid of chaotic townie + see who attacked said townie. So if I check the setup and we can "afford" eliminating a townie to get answers, then I'd go forward with it. So the answer is yes, Black.

Scum need three miselims to win, meaning we get exactly two miselims before every single townie has to vote correctly for the rest of the game (since even one person messing up at that point lets scum just hammer). I don't recommend policy limming someone in this setup

[usesPython]

VOTE: brzeczyszczykiewicz

Voting for people you think are town is crazy

Eh, if they're used to shorter deadlines and larger games I can see it happen. brz can you give an example of a typical setup from your past games?

[usesPython]

"scum prefer to tr people" and me disagreeing with someone's argument clearly fits with that, so maybe I really am scum, or this is my sign that we hate me actually trying to generate reads...

Maybe I wasn't clear in my argument. When scum tr a townie, they are objectively correct. Their reasoning is only there to make it look like they're town, they'd still be correct even if the reasoning was "Their name starts with T, town starts with T, QED". When town tr a townie, that is their opinion which came to be from vibes/gut/logic/whatever. The reasoning is vital to the accuracy of the read. That subtle distinction is how you can scumread people based off who they're townreading and why

[usesPython]

Also I disagree that chaotic town is a worse enemy than scum. We play to get rid of wolves, period

Yeah the correct way to deal with chaotic townies is to learn to read chaotic townies and learn to play in chaotic games, limming scum is almost always gonna be +EV compared to limming town

[usesPython]

I've heard that a vig shot is a good method to get rid of those types of slots, or a policy lim later in the game which we already discussed isn't happening here with only 9 players. And clearly the vig shot isn't happening in a newbie game either so we just have to let the chaotic player figure it out themselves

No vig in the newbie queue, this is so sad

[usesPython]

Hey, so setups I played would be 30 players, 6 mafias and each side having snipers every other day.

Other roles too, like doctor or detective.

Yeah ok then this:

I need to see how many eliminations we have in this setup (what accuracy rate we need to win) to win. I'm used to bigger sessions, where we could 'spare' an elimination to get rid of chaotic townie + see who attacked said townie. So if I check the setup and we can "afford" eliminating a townie to get answers, then I'd go forward with it. So the answer is yes, Black.

is probably NAI for now, realistically that's kinda just how those games go. If they keep this kind of mindset after they should have adjusted to 9p games then I might change my mind

[usesPython]

What's a NAI?

NAI = Not Alignment Indicative
AI = Alignment Indicative

You might want to check the wiki for Commonly Used Abbreviations and the Glossary

[usesPython]

My favourite alignment is mafia tho things have changed and I now prefer to be town.

Ok I need a sanity check because I've seen three other people come to the same conclusion; why are people reading this statement as Wiz currently prefers mafia over town.

The statement by itself is semantically incorrect, you can't simultaneously have mafia be your favorite alignment and then prefer town over mafia because then town would be your favorite alignment. So why isn't

My favourite alignment

is

was mafia tho things have changed and I now prefer to be town.

the most reasonable way to read the sentence?

[usesPython]

I have an answer to this one as well. When I was planning to write the answer I was simply going to say mafia because that was what written on my MU site but then I realised I no longer prefer mafia hence I added the 2nd part in the sentence without correcting the 1st part. Hope that makes sense.

No I read it that way as well, I'm asking why others didn't

[usesPython]

Posts like these are pinging my radar, lots of repeating what other people are saying without adding much new

Interesting posts by brzeczyszczykiewicz. At least worthy of analysis. OMGUS is surely sus, specially when not paired with a vote. Then again, that interaction with usesPython is kind of sketchy as well. There are already some interesting things going on here.

Literally just my 16

Hi lads and lasses, a lot going on. I'm keen on the analysis Brian did, thanks for that mate. Surely Mala's absence is somewhat strange. A player with experience, that has confirmed their role and still, after over 24 hours hasn't appeared? I do think it's a bit too self incriminating to maintain this kind of behaviour when being scum, at least I would've posted something just to get heat off of me. But Mala needs to provide a good reasoning for us to begin the trusty relationship, as it's starting off the wrong foot.

I was almost prepared to vote Mala, but I want to hear him/her first.

I think I will vote though. I've seen a fair bit of defending lately, and I might be SR Wiz, after Brian's detailed ISO. VOTE: WizKvothe

Mala stuff is just Brians 141 except for being more wishy washy

FoS: chaodck

chao what's your take on the Andante situation?

[usesPython]

Lol, if being annoyed is called defending then sure vote me out.

You planning on doing some actual scumhunting/townhunting in the meantime or are you just gonna keep fluffing?

[usesPython]

Hey we got a new nothingnew

[usesPython]

Usespython: I think their sus on breeze was legit which gives them certain towny points.

You're commenting on our brz push but not our Andante push? Like objectively speaking that was probably our weakest push due to how little content there is that early in page 1 so it's weird that you're using that to townread me without commenting on the Andante push?

[usesPython]

Because I feel brz has the potential to be a wolf so your push on them looks good but because I feel adante is town so I didn't bother to touch that subject. I don't read you wolfy for pushing adante because your push on brz was enough for me to put you in town lean.

In my experience the

what

of a read is almost completely irrelevant compared to the

why

of a read. Like our first game here our top townread has us as her top scumread

[usesPython]

Well there can be difference of opinion. I don't think a wolf would take the risk of being a loner and present an independent thought which is different from others specially on D1.

Play with us the next time we roll scum

[usesPython]

I just ISO'd chao. He really needs to start making reads that aren't just lifted from other people, this is not a good ratio of sheeping vs hunting

Spoiler: ISO

Interesting posts by brzeczyszczykiewicz. At least worthy of analysis. OMGUS is surely sus, specially when not paired with a vote. Then again, that interaction with usesPython is kind of sketchy as well. There are already some interesting things going on here.

Lifted from me

It kind of sounded a bit forced in my opinion. It's not uncommon that mafia try to distance themselves from one another in the initial day phases, normally pitting themselves against each other in discussion. It's super risky when they are only 2, but it's a strategy I've seen elsewhere.

Unique

Hi lads and lasses, a lot going on. I'm keen on the analysis Brian did, thanks for that mate. Surely Mala's absence is somewhat strange. A player with experience, that has confirmed their role and still, after over 24 hours hasn't appeared? I do think it's a bit too self incriminating to maintain this kind of behaviour when being scum, at least I would've posted something just to get heat off of me. But Mala needs to provide a good reasoning for us to begin the trusty relationship, as it's starting off the wrong foot.

I was almost prepared to vote Mala, but I want to hear him/her first.

I think I will vote though. I've seen a fair bit of defending lately, and I might be SR Wiz, after Brian's detailed ISO. VOTE: WizKvothe

Lifted from Brian

Regarding your question, I think Andante is more of a chaotic townie than a Mafia. That's my (albeit unskilled) read on her.

Lifted from brz

Well, I'm a bit of a sheep. Specially at this stage. My lack of skill shows and I still can't figure out how to be productive.
It's normally here when I get killed, in the past it's been a mix of fear of inactivity and lack of knowing where to go, which leads me to post things that sound like I'm blindly following someone. At least I'm trying not to be always the same person.

Again, I'm bad at this, specially this early on. I'll try my best to be productive and add to the discussion, I really felt that I had something early early on with the strange feeling from that interatction between Brz and UsesPython on 38. I had voted for Python to start off ("random" vote), then signalled Brz as sus because of what seemed like a fake interaction between them to point fingers between the two mafias early on as to dissociate them.
Then I voted for Wiz sheeping on Brian's analysi, which I find certainly worth a look.

If you think you have something then you gotta start pursuing those leads. You said you have bad vibes from Brz and I, figure out what questions you need answered to sort our slots and then ask them

[usesPython]

like the fact Brian is purposely ignoring me here... literally can not be town
VOTE: Brian

wdym ignoring, he literally just said he's going to sleep?

[usesPython]

if I felt solid about the black sr I'd have been voting there?

You were voting there

yeah, rvs, then left my vote off anyone when I was over rvs

64 and 81 do not seem like random votes at all

Especially when

VOTE: Black

of the people posting, she's who I sr the most, nut at least 1 of Mala/nothingNew are very likely scum

came after

I've got some stuff to do and then I'll respond to you Andante

no rush no rush, never a rush!

and mala probably really is scum
VOTE: Mala

(I hope I've done enough vote changing to make yall happy)

At that point you've explicitly said that joke time is over

[usesPython]

Then again, she did say it's still rvs in

I literally said I liked the 1 thing because people generally don't just hand out their tells as scum. It's not like I locked you away as town in my books, it's more, I don't feel like pressuring you right now, I voted you solely because someone else was, and

we need to pressure someone with the rvs votes

, you gave that tell, and I was like, ok, I don't really want to push someone who is more likely than not going to be town.

I will make it really clear to you, I do not tr you. I just said that was a good line

Though I'd disagree with still being in RVS, I feel like we already got out of it by page 1

[usesPython]

Though I'd disagree with still being in RVS, I feel like we already got out of it by page 1

I consider RVS to be RVS until actual gameplay talk is happening, the playstyle conversations aren't content.

Damn, guess the page 1 Python/brz fight never happened then

[usesPython]

Like there was stuff to react to by the time you rvs'd Black; namely the brz/Python fight and peoples reactions to it

[usesPython]

brian claimed scum soooo yeah

Where?

[usesPython]

Interesting posts by brzeczyszczykiewicz. At least worthy of analysis. OMGUS is surely sus, specially when not paired with a vote. Then again, that interaction with usesPython is kind of sketchy as well. There are already some interesting things going on here.

I feel comfortable townreading this slot. Their posts feel genuine to me and I can vibe with their analysis.

Spoiler: Wiz's Iso

Hello all! I'm excited to play this with yall! This seems like a fun group of players!! (I say that, but idk anyone except one hahaha) but it's ok, I don't have to know you to look forward to the game!
Yall are very quiet... HELLO DARKNESS MY OLD FRIEND

hahaha nah, but on a real note I'd love to get to know a bit about yall! I'm just kinda curious how long yall have been playing mafia, your favorite role or alignment to be, and pronouns to call you by, cause I don't think many of you have pronouns listed on the site (and I'd like to refer to you correctly!)

I'll start, I'm Andante, I use she/her pronouns, been playing mafia for like 11 years, I'm from chat mafia, fast paced games, and have been around here for about 2 years. I'd say I prefer playing as mafia because it's a little easier to have "good" reads lol versus town, it's like "uhhhh you! no wait, you!!" hahaha

Hi, I'm WizKvothe. I use he/him pronouns. I have been playing mafia since like three years. Reddit is my origin site where I play mafia alongwith MU, Hangs, FoL. My favourite alignment is mafia tho things have changed and I now prefer to be town. Also, I'm used to playing 24/48 hours phases so I'm not sure how am I going to handle 10 day phases which is very long imo. It could take months for a game to end. I wish there was a game with short phases on here.

Hey, why would you vote for me? Because I'm Polish? Kinda disappointed, since I use Python too

Wiz, why is mafia your favorite alignment? You enjoy manipulating?

I used to enjoy being an informed minority but as I continued playing I found it's hard for me to lie so now I always wish to be a town.

Wiz, I don't like your answer at all, sounds sketchy, you stopped enjoying lying overnight?

And usesPython: your answer just let me realize that you're a scum and want to put me into queue to get lynched, while you can keep manipulating the town

I'm not saying that. I used to like mafia but as I said that as I continued playing like 20 to 30 games, I realised lying is hard for me so now I just prefer town.

also: why I would vote already, if the day lasts ten days?

wiz, you don't make sense at all, you say I'm scared of getting into a fight while SIMULTANEOUSLY accusing me of casting shade on others?

Umm ....when did I say that? I think you are mixing people here.

My favourite alignment is mafia tho things have changed and I now prefer to be town

If lying is hard for you then why do you still consider mafia your favorite alignment? Is it still your favorite despite you not liking it that much anymore?

No, it's not mafia anymore plus I don't see discussing this is beneficial...lol

In my previous games votes would be hidden, so that's why I haven't voted for you.

I see you as a scum now, I'll observe you and see if you greenify yourself.

Hidden votes seems crazy

This feels a little "you think I'm scum so I think you're scum" to me

What can we call you brzeczyszczykiewicz? My mind wants to call you breeze for some reason

My origin site on reddit also has hidden votes so it's not impossible.

No, it's not mafia anymore plus I don't see discussing this is beneficial...lol

I guess I'm just confused why you said mafia is your favorite if it's not anymore

And re: hidden votes, I wasn't really saying it was impossible. I just don't think I would enjoy playing that way tbh

Alright, I will explain why I said mafia first. It's because on MU site I had written "mafia" as my fav alignment so I thought you could argue that I had set that alignment on MU(if you saw me there) so I thought it's safe to say mafia first otherwise you might think I was lying if i had said town. Btw, the MU profile is updated to reflect town now. Hope I made sense....lol

also can I just say, Reddit has mafia?? I have never even heard of that lol that’s kinda cool!!!

Search r/HiddenWerewolves formerly known as r/HogwartsWerewolves. Play with us sometimes there...lol

This slot has been active, but has mostly only made comments about or responded to NAI things. Efforts to game-solve are nonexistent. Very much a "sideline" player just watching the other players go at it. Very scummy.

VOTE: Wiz

Brian you still stand by these reads or has your opinion on them changed?

[usesPython]

because you are manipulating the player list to gather votes based off a case, but in reality the case is terrible because you are going after low hanging fruit or someone who hasn't yet had a chance to defend themselves.

I remember explaining my read, but I don't remember presenting a "case." I don't think I would've gone through with the elimination unless you actually replaced.

Low hanging fruit can be scum too.

Sometimes there are scum slots that are too afraid to post or enter the game. They get abandoned, replaced, etc.

Or they just enter with minimal activity.

Town can do it too, so it's not a catch-all.

NothingNew hasn't even confirmed yet. So for all we know, they have no idea what role they received. To me, NothingNew is just a slot that can flip either way and is not really a huge concern unless I'm reading everyone else as town. The slot will probably be replaced anyway.

Mala HAS confirmed, so we KNOW she's seen her role PM. I'm giving her some benefit of the doubt in case she's just been busy with work or something (it's only been about a day and I've also been busy before now), but I do expect some posting from her eventually. I would have huge issues with the slot if it were to be replaced.

So if there HAS to be scum in the two inactives, then I would find Mala more likely to be scum.

You don't consider this to be a scumcase? Just because you wouldn't have gone through with a lim doesn't mean you're not making a case.

[usesPython]

Hi Delta

[usesPython]

Deltabreedy replaces WizKvothe.

Hi Delta! I would expect you to stick with your personal policy of pushing me D1 after last game so... bring it on!

The trick is to never reassess a Black scumread once you finally have one

[usesPython]

EBWOP: Sorry I thought I'd used the spoiler tags correctly. Evidently I was wrong.

If you want

Spoiler: these

hi

types of spoilers it's

[ spoiler=these] hi [/spoiler]

without the space in the spoiler tag

[usesPython]

Ok, read the thread and my top SR is brzeczyszczykiewicz. My explanation below:

1.- Early on I suspected his and usesPython interactions. As I've said they sound forced, pinning against each other.

Spoiler:

Yo Black, been a while. You break your streak of rolling scum in newbie games yet?

VOTE: brzeczyszczykiewicz

I'd love to get to know a bit about yall! I'm just kinda curious how long yall have been playing mafia, your favorite role or alignment to be, and pronouns to call you by, cause I don't think many of you have pronouns listed on the site (and I'd like to refer to you correctly!)

We're plural but both of us are fine with they/them, we tend not to sign our posts because half the time we don't even know which one of us is writing it but we can try if y'all need it. Most of our experience comes from 1k hours in Town of Salem and my favorite role/alignment is Cult as long as no one throws because they got culted

Hey, why would you vote for me? Because I'm Polish? Kinda disappointed, since I use Python too

Wiz, why is mafia your favorite alignment? You enjoy manipulating?

Hey, why would you vote for me? Because I'm Polish? Kinda disappointed, since I use Python too

Wiz, why is mafia your favorite alignment? You enjoy manipulating?

Oh cool scummiest entrance so far. OMGUSes me for voting them but doesn't vote back (scared of getting into a fight early?) then somehow reads

My favourite alignment is mafia tho things have changed and I now prefer to be town.

as saying Wiz currently prefers mafia and casts shade with "You enjoy manipulating?"

Wiz, I don't like your answer at all, sounds sketchy, you stopped enjoying lying overnight?

And usesPython: your answer just let me realize that you're a scum and want to put me into queue to get lynched, while you can keep manipulating the town

And usesPython: your answer just let me realize that you're a scum and want to put me into queue to get lynched, while you can keep manipulating the town

So why haven't you voted for me then?

wiz, you don't make sense at all, you say I'm scared of getting into a fight while SIMULTANEOUSLY accusing me of casting shade on others?

You're mixing up names, I'm the one pushing you here

also: why I would vote already, if the day lasts ten days?

wiz, you don't make sense at all, you say I'm scared of getting into a fight while SIMULTANEOUSLY accusing me of casting shade on others?

Why would I already vote for you if I have 10 days for that? You sound kinda anxious regarding the votes. As a town I'm an open-minded person. Will observe you, though.

So why haven't you voted for me then?

Guess I'm just not gonna get an answer to this then

Why would I already vote for you if I have 10 days for that? You sound kinda anxious regarding the votes. As a town I'm an open-minded person. Will observe you, though.

Why would I already vote for you if I have 10 days for that? You sound kinda anxious regarding the votes. As a town I'm an open-minded person. Will observe you, though.

Might be different from where you normally play but here anyone who hammers this early tends to get limmed the next day. Since you consider me scum the logical next move as town is to vote me to create pressure, force my supposed partner to either help or bus me which creates associatives, etc.

So that raises the question: why haven't you voted me?

As a town I'm an open-minded person.

And usesPython: your answer just let me realize that you're a scum and want to put me into queue to get lynched, while you can keep manipulating the town

For someone who's pretty open-minded as town you sure made up your mind quick didn't you?

In my previous games votes would be hidden, so that's why I haven't voted for you.

I see you as a scum now, I'll observe you and see if you greenify yourself.

There's a difference between making one's mind quickly and still being open to change.

VOTE: usesPython

Since the meta here is immediate voting for current suspect, then I'll adhere to it.

I'll comment on what's going on here later, after work.

A few things here. First it's an early random vote and they pick a fight with each other. Second, brz mistakes usesPython for WizKvothe (this might be important later)

(After this, I got a bit derailed and sheeped a lot, which brought the FOS on myself and thus I started defending a bit losing focus)

2.- I'm feeling that brzeczyszczykiewicz is purposedly making himself look less experienced than he is. I get he's polish and played before on polish forums, which would explain why he's not up to date on the abbreviations and glossary terms.

Spoiler:

What's OMGUS? Is it an overreacting to a vote?

What does "sr" mean?

What are flips?

What's a NAI?

Yet, only half a day later, after his "flips" question, he throws the term around super casually, like he knew the term and has used it all his life. Yes, he might have learnt it and wanted to show that, but also it might be a slip-up in his "naive and new to the game" persona he's showing.

Spoiler:

Every interaction helps, especially when one of us

flips

. You should make as many interactions as possible. Not frown and claim you're UNCOMFORTABLE.

3.- After that, a lot of posts in the first few days, he's gone AWOL and is being prodded. He's my top SR, followed by usesPython due to their exchange at the start of the game. I know, this doesn't change what I've said from the start, before sheeping. But doing this analysys has made me sure of my initial gut feeling.

VOTE: brzeczyszczykiewicz

Fixed spoiler tags so that I can actually read it

[usesPython]

2.- I'm feeling that brzeczyszczykiewicz is purposedly making himself look less experienced than he is. I get he's polish and played before on polish forums, which would explain why he's not up to date on the abbreviations and glossary terms.

Spoiler:

What's OMGUS? Is it an overreacting to a vote?

What does "sr" mean?

What are flips?

What's a NAI?

Yet, only half a day later, after his "flips" question, he throws the term around super casually, like he knew the term and has used it all his life. Yes, he might have learnt it and wanted to show that, but also it might be a slip-up in his "naive and new to the game" persona he's showing.

Spoiler:

Every interaction helps, especially when one of us

flips

. You should make as many interactions as possible. Not frown and claim you're UNCOMFORTABLE.

Good take, didn't even notice that

[usesPython]

A few things here. First it's an early random vote and they pick a fight with each other.

Yes, but less than what I thought of at the start. I think brz might have tried to entice Python into a fight, rather than the fight being a bit forced. He might be forcing it singlehandedly.

We tend to pick a lot of fights because our better reads come from putting a lot of pressure on someone and seeing how they respond, it's pretty NAI for us

[usesPython]

I really don't see how. It doesn't matter if someone makes a mistake if it's a mistake they could make as either alignment.

If he thinks it's a preplanned scum vs scum fight then mistaking the name could come from brz thinking I'd be the only person responding. It's NAI to us because we know we're town but that's the line of thought he seems to be going for?

[usesPython]

Unless you want me to share of course. It's basically just answering for Blue and what I think his motives are

Wait until Blue posts, don't speak for other peoples motives when they can speak for themselves

[usesPython]

otherwise you just null anything AI from the response

[usesPython]

It's pretty scummy that you're straight-up evading the question.

I need your thoughts on Brian, not in a day, not an hour before the deadline - you're here now and clearly you have some.

What would be the scum motivation for waiting until chao posts before answering your question instead of answering now?

[usesPython]

So yeah, with the slot having gone 4 days without saying anything of note

NothingNew replaced out without ever confirming, Blue's "only" been here for two days

[usesPython]

What a VC. 7 out of the 9 players are being voted for

Seems like a normal game to me, didn't we have 6 1-vote wagons like a day before the deadline the last game we played with you?

[usesPython]

In an effort to get this game slightly more functional, can I interest y'all in a Brian wagon?

yeah sooo I have no actual SRs right now lol maybe scum is just in those not posting… MALA!! hahaha got 1!!!

I also feel there is a decent chance Mala may be scum here.

Probably more likely for her to flip scum than NothingNew at least.

Sometimes there are scum slots that are too afraid to post or enter the game. They get abandoned, replaced, etc.

Or they just enter with minimal activity.

Town can do it too, so it's not a catch-all.

NothingNew hasn't even confirmed yet. So for all we know, they have no idea what role they received. To me, NothingNew is just a slot that can flip either way and is not really a huge concern unless I'm reading everyone else as town. The slot will probably be replaced anyway.

Mala HAS confirmed, so we KNOW she's seen her role PM. I'm giving her some benefit of the doubt in case she's just been busy with work or something (it's only been about a day and I've also been busy before now), but I do expect some posting from her eventually. I would have huge issues with the slot if it were to be replaced.

So if there HAS to be scum in the two inactives, then

I would find Mala more likely to be scum.

but still it's odd for you to come out gun blazing at me over the other inactive slot.

The other inactive slot was never confirmed, so I don't think the inactiveness is AI. Yours was based on you confirming and then not showing up.

Seeing as how you're the only person I know in this game, I was planning on sorting you first. My initial posts were just to try and

entice

pressure you to come into the thread and post (in case you were following along). You were just busy though, so it didn't work.

It wasn't until later that I was like "okay, this may actually be a scum."

because you are manipulating the player list to gather votes based off a case, but in reality the case is terrible because you are going after low hanging fruit or someone who hasn't yet had a chance to defend themselves.

I remember explaining my read, but I don't remember presenting a "case." I don't think I would've gone through with the elimination unless you actually replaced.

Low hanging fruit can be scum too.

Mala's first post was 191, so both of the above posts were made before she came in

UNVOTE: Andante

VOTE: Brian

[usesPython]

I see the wagon.

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

This post is bugging me, it's a level of awareness that the wagon isn't actually gonna result in a lim that I don't know how to sort

[usesPython]

This post is bugging me, it's a level of awareness that the wagon isn't actually gonna result in a lim that I don't know how to sort

Ok to formalize the points of contention here so that we actually have something to discuss:

1. Any sufficiently strong player will believe that the wagon isn't going to result in a lim, regardless of alignment
2. Any sufficiently weak player will believe that the wagon will result in a lim if Brian doesn't do something to stop it, regardless of alignment
3. In the space between 1 and 2, which alignment is more likely to believe the wagon wont result in a lim?
4. Is Brian in the space between 1 and 2 or not?

[usesPython]

Moar pressure on brz? He dipped as the pressure was building on him. I can totally see him coming back to the thread with a couple votes and just noping back out of here

They're getting replaced if they don't post in the next 3 hours, realistically speaking the next post to come from that slot will probably be from a new person

[usesPython]

Actually at a second look, @furtive does the "activity timers run at half-speed on weekends" apply to the replacement timer too or just the prod timer?

Activity

- You must post at least once every 36 hours or I will Prod you. You then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or I will replace you. If you come back before I find a replacement, you can stay. The activity timers run at half-speed on weekends. Players can request me to prod somebody early. This will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod. If you haven't posted in the 24 hours before the thread is locked for night, you must reply to the night start PM or you will be replaced during the night.

[usesPython]

Hi Kawaii

[usesPython]

but if scum is trying to look as towny as possible here, do you think it comes from scum?

Why is scum necessarily trying to look as townie as possible here? Obviously not being obvscum is gonna be part of their goals but being obvtown is not necessarily optimal if it means sacrificing other aspects of their play.
In that sense looking scummy by jumping on a wagon can still be a good play for scum as long as it results in a miselim where there wouldn't be one without it

[usesPython]

As much as I like the Brian wagon I’m not entirely sure I like the fast buildup without my vote

What do you consider to be natural wagon formation vs a forced wagon and how do they differ from the Brian wagon?

[usesPython]

Yeah Blue was definitely asking the wrong question there

As much as I like the Brian wagon I’m not entirely sure I like the fast buildup without my vote

Out of Python, Delta, Black and me, who do you suspects the most?

As much as I like the Brian wagon I’m not entirely sure I like the fast buildup without my vote

This implies that Mala thinks there's at least a possibility that there's something nefarious about Brian's wagon (right, Mala?). I want her to elaborate on this possibility.

Even if she thinks that scum is on the wagon it doesn't tell her who the scum actually are, only the general direction. If you want Mala to elaborate on the read then the questions to be asking are "Why are scum on the wagon?" and not "Who on the wagon is scum?"

[usesPython]

Am I the only one sat here wondering if that's it?

If that's it? What do you mean?

Your predecessor was pretty scummy, was also kinda hoping to see more from you now that you've caught up

[usesPython]

Kawaii when can we expect a reads list from you?

[usesPython]

Why will being obvtown mean sacrificing other aspects of play? In what situation does this happen? What aspects of play may get sacrificed?

Easiest and flashiest example would be full on bussing, but more subtle versions like defending lim bait would also be an example (+town cred for not jumping on the lim bait in exchange for the lim bait not getting miselimed)

[usesPython]

0bv town must be distinct to optimal town since optimal town would defend against a miselimination

Yeah I'm basically saying that scum aren't always gonna be playing to get the most +town points from others if giving up opportunities to get +town points means they get closer to winning through stuff like miselims, setting up false associatives, etc.

[usesPython]

I think my list looks something like this after 12 pages

TOWN

python

Wiz

Delta
Blue
mala
Brian
chao
Andante
brz

SCUM

python and Wiz seem the towniest atm. Blue and mala have less content but I am also getting town vibes from them. Brian is nullish leaning slightly red I think, and then the bottom 3 are people I would be comfortable voting today

Update here: I'm swapping Blue/Delta, and also chao/Brian. I think I'm only interested in a brz/Brian lim but that could change depending on what Andante's catch up looks like today

Why are you interested in a Brian lim but not an Andante lim if you consider Andante to be scummier than Brian?

[usesPython]

Town's 1 job is to find scum, not to avoid getting scumread. I disagree with the base premise from which you're deriving this townread.

Disagree. Town wins by consistently limming every member of the mafia, which is a two part process:

1. Limming scum
   
2. Not limming town

In other words town has two paths to victory:

1. Correctly identify scum and lim them
   
2. Correctly identify town and lim everyone but them

In this setup that can be done through the entire town either identifying a correct 5-person townbloc with no scum or a correct 4-person scumbloc containing every scum, either way not getting unnecessarily scumread as town helps with that because being in the townbloc and not being in the scumbloc reduces the amount of people others need to sort correctly by one (since you know you're town).

[usesPython]

well yes, I know I am town, and internally it feels like I have failed my 1 job as town here, cause someone is SRing me, and I'm trying everything in my power to make it clear to the other town here that I am town

This feels town to me, feeling that she failed as town with this reaction, if I'm being manipulated with this holy fuck I will feel stupid but this feels genuine, I'm not seeing the WIF0M Black is seeing

I disagree with this analysis too though, both scum and town have an incentive to look town. It's why wanting to look town is NAI

[usesPython]

I've not given enough credit for #430. I disagree with the premise of the townread but I agree with the wider post, I think it scores townpoints.

+1 townpoints for the post, -1 townpoints for asking for townpoints

[usesPython]

I've not given enough credit for #430. I disagree with the premise of the townread but I agree with the wider post, I think it scores townpoints.

+1 townpoints for the post, -1 townpoints for asking for townpoints

nvm I read I've as I'm

[usesPython]

@Delta
@python

Can I get a reads list from you two?

Spoiler: Legend

Name

- TR with nothing scummy

Name

- SR with nothing townie

Na

me

- Null, both scummy and townie
Name - Null, not scummy or townie

Going by the playerlist:

usesPython

- I'm biased, sue me

cha

odck

- Didn't like his early sheeping (see 189) but 284 is some original scumhunting so he gets a pass for now, definitely a slot I want to see more from

BlueSnakel

et

NothingNew

- Most of his posting is fine, I talked about my problems with him in 409

Delta

breedy

Wiz

Kvothe

- He has some fine progression for the most part (though a few weird pushes), but it feels he hasn't really gotten into a position to scumslip or townslip yet

Bla

ck - I'm scared of fully TRing you

Kaw

aiiKame

brzeczyszczy

kiewicz

- Kawaii's the type of player that's hard for me to read, gonna need to either do a meta dive or sheep someone who's good at reading them

And

ante

(SE) - I really don't like her posts being contradictory and filled with AtE but most of it is NAI so I'll let her either townslip or scumslip later (and I'm kind of scared of this being the easy lim bait)
Brian

Skies

(SE) - I don't really like his Mala push and there's nothing really that stands out as townie in his ISO

M

alakittens (SE) - The green is for pocketing me in 260

[usesPython]

Something feels off about python but I can't quite pin point it. Maybe it's all the emojis? Sounds crazy but they didn't use any emojis when they were town in our other game. This game they have used like six or seven laughing emojis. Could it be a nervous tick as wolf or am I tinfoiling?

Wrong

If you had a Weuler/Taly solve though, you've be obvtown

also at this rate we might have to actually start signing posts, Nameless was fronting for most of Newbie 2111 and they tend to wall with very little emoji's and jokes. I tend to hyperpost and use the funny

-A

[usesPython]

Like at this point in our other game Python was completely serious and not really cracking jokes at all. They were tunneling and calling people out left and right. I'm not getting those same vibes here. It almost feels like they are playing more loose and are less concerned about who the wolf team might be. That could be AI for him but I'm not sure. I guess I'll throw more work on my pile and read an old scum game of theirs along with Andante's

Delta, Kawaii, and Mala I haven't had a chance to read Newbie 2116; has Black improved her scumgame enough to make this kind of post as scum?

[usesPython]

I don't read into meta, I think it's pointless and as a playstyle decision I'll die on this hill.

Using meta for to make a read tends to be pretty shit yes, but I will die on the hill that using meta to null a read is good

[usesPython]

Using meta for to make a read tends to be pretty shit yes, but I will die on the hill that using meta to null a read is good

If someone does a townie thing as scum then it's NAI instead of a townslip, if someone does a scummy thing as town then it's NAI instead of a scumslip

Using meta for to make a read tends to be pretty shit yes, but I will die on the hill that using meta to null a read is good

Do you SR my comment about you?

Other way around, I'm trying to null what I see as a townslip

[usesPython]

Personally this is the third/fourth game I played with black. So I don’t have enough of a range to really know

To be clear, I'm not asking if she

would

make this kind of post as scum, I'm asking if she

could

.

Like if we're in a scum!Black game does she think to pull out a tinfoil theory on a pretty much universally tr'd player compared to just NKing us

[usesPython]

Eh, we disagree. Black's proven that they've got the wherewithal to lie, manipulate and deceive if they want. I think people are more capable of playing to/against their meta at will that are given credit for, so I certainly won't be invoking meta on her.

If it informs part of your read sure, but if it informed someone's whole read on someone, that'd concern me.

Ninja'd: but no comment on Mala's post.

My problem with Black is that the post by itself would normally be considered a townslip to me if it was anyone here but her, but I know her meta enough to know they're really good at scum which is why I wanted to try nulling the read first

[usesPython]

Well I'm not sure if it means anything coming from me but I think I'm capable of making that post as wolf or town. I definitely don't consider it a "townslip"

Yeah no that works too, townslip nulled

[usesPython]

(also if that's not a townslip then Black's really gonna be a pain to sort, ugh)

[usesPython]

We're over 75% of the way through D1 and I feel like basically nothing has happened, honestly I read that statement more as town because it's exploring ideas - it's not a post that Scum!Black -needs- to make at this point, and if it were Scum!Black trying to dissuade the Brian wagon, I get the sense that there would be something equally nuanced but more powerful behind it.

Yeah that was about my reasoning, especially because it's a tinfoil read on me instead of someone actually limmable

[usesPython]

I agree with you here but where are you drawing your past experiences with python from? Have y'all played together?

Ongoing game, I'll get back to you when it's done

[usesPython]

Bah, if only y'all had left us alive. We'd have been tunneling Delta the entire game

ggwp everyone

-A

[usesPython]

So, I am definitely counting this for my townstreak but do I get to add the win to my record too? (it really needs it)

Your VT n2 actions were critical to winning this game, I say add it