Newbie 2116 - Booza (Game Over)

[skitter30]

Even though mala is pretty much conftown I don't think she was being very clear with her thought process over those pages. I'm not sure where you're getting the hostile part from but I just wanted her to be more transparent with her progressions

I mean that you were both townreading her for the claim but were questioning her as if you were trying to solve for her alignment. Felt like there's a disconnect there

I mean i made it p clear i think the play is scummy i'm only townbucketing her cuz of the claim
Idk why you're deriving a malevolent meaning out of that

[skitter30]

I don't see anything ruling it out

[skitter30]

Arko and Delta really dropped off huh

Quite a lot, both of them, yes

[skitter30]

If i was scum woudnt i be posting b/c i don't want to get flipped?

[skitter30]

Yeah ngl that's a p scummy post

[skitter30]

One thing I will say is Skitter has been posting throughout this dead time, I think that's something scum may just avoid doing since they don't really need to add much if they aren't being pushed. That's making me suspect of Delta atm tbh

Mallow tbh how much of the game are u reading

[skitter30]

One thing I will say is Skitter has been posting throughout this dead time, I think that's something scum may just avoid doing since they don't really need to add much if they aren't being pushed. That's making me suspect of Delta atm tbh

Mallow tbh how much of the game are u reading

I've read all of it, I don't know what you're implying by this.

Well, your conclusion abt the prior few pages is that i wasnt being pushed, which isnt the case

So i'm trying to understand: are you up to date? How much of the game have you taken in?

[skitter30]

Actually with that clarification i don'r really find this scummy anymore

[skitter30]

I don't think mallow will flip scum

[skitter30]

Maybe that makes me seem like I'm paired with Skitter? I don't really care if I'm seen as a partner to Skitter because I know I'm not scum so that doesn't really matter.

I'm feeling very rusty at this so I do apologize on that front.

I don't think this sort of post comes from scum, particularly the first paragraph

However, i can see it coming from town who hasnt played in a while and feels like they don't know how to react to what's happening

Originally i thought he was saying he thought the wayi was playing was townie, which didnt make sense to me - now that he's explained that he wasnt talking abt me, it makes more sense

[skitter30]

I understand your pov but that's my read on him

[skitter30]

I really hate how arko hasnt done anything game advancing this entire dayphase

[skitter30]

Why has this game died again

[skitter30]

Sorry, I've just been enjoying something a lot and also had less time, so I've temporarily put something at a higher focus. I've read back and I'm probably hammering whatever is up by tomorrow, as I have literally no ideas besides a pool of Mallow/Skitter/CSF

You've been popping in once a day for close to a week to apologize for not having any content - you're kinda v lacking here

If this is your pool can u vote csf plz

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: Skitter
VOTE: Mallowgeno

E-1. This is today's lim.

You've also fallen off a ton - i want to hear more abt what you think of the game after the events of this dayphase

[skitter30]

Like we have 2 irl days left - arko you haventhad content this entire phase and delta you've barely said anything since like tuesday

[skitter30]

Ngl that's a scummy approach

[skitter30]

B/c you've been promising to do that every day for yhe last five days and havent

[skitter30]

I think that's hammer, still don't think this is gonna flip scum unfortunately

[skitter30]

Soooooooooo abt that mallow scumflip ...
I think at this point the other pr should claim (presumably fn?)

[skitter30]

Black tbh i'm signicantly more sus of you now than yesterday

P sure csf is scum
Delta's day2 was p awful too

Arko i think is just distracted by irl things and is town

[skitter30]

I still think it's skitter and black

B/c ...?
Wdym by 'still', this wasnt your solve yesterday

Why do you even think i'm scum here

[skitter30]

Nobody shouod be voting now

[skitter30]

Black, why don't you think it's delta

[skitter30]

I think Delta is the towniest person left and if I remove him from the picture then the scum pool becomes much more clear

There are two wolves in {CSF; skitter; Arko} and we just have to make sure we don't lim the wrong one and we win

Since mallow flipped town I'm pretty confident we win by limming CSF and Arko but I need to reread the thread to make sure we don't fumble this

Why is delta the towniest person? I don't think they're nearly townie enuf to justify removing from the pool

[skitter30]

Also I'm pretty confident Skitter is scum - the reaction to the flip in #1251 is purely to bait out a 2nd PR.

- yesterday you thought it was me and mallow and mallow is town: you should really be reassessing your view of the game based on that
- i'm not fishing. It's elo and this is when prs should claim, esp. give that the tracker died. The doc should have been on her, but wasnt, so that indicates we have an FN: two of the other players already know ths anyways

Why exactly is this fishing, and why are you ascribing malicolious intent here. I.e. why is this more likely to come from scum-me than town-me

[skitter30]

Why shouldnt they claim

[skitter30]

Like what do we gain from then not claimingat this point

If they claim there's someone to take out of the pool and that makes the game easier for us to solve

It's either a doc who didntdo their job or an fn who should be known to half the remaining players

Like what's the point not knowing now

[skitter30]

Csf and black
{In fact that's probably just the solve if you're town}

Now you do thr same exercise imagining i'm town + explain why i should be taking you as town

[skitter30]

Also I'm pretty confident Skitter is scum - the reaction to the flip in #1251 is purely to bait out a 2nd PR.

- yesterday you thought it was me and mallow and mallow is town: you should really be reassessing your view of the game based on that
- i'm not fishing. It's elo and this is when prs should claim, esp. give that the tracker died. The doc should have been on her, but wasnt, so that indicates we have an FN: two of the other players already know ths anyways

Why exactly is this fishing, and why are you ascribing malicolious intent here. I.e. why is this more likely to come from scum-me than town-me

I want you to address this please

[skitter30]

What is this pr hunting thing ... it's elo, and we should be fullclaiminhlg today. Like we all should hlbe claiming now.

Both black/delta: i want you yo explain why it's scummy for to suggest this and why it isnt in town's best interest to do so ...

[skitter30]

What is this pr hunting thing ... it's elo, and we should be fullclaiminhlg today. Like we all should hlbe claiming now.

Both black/delta: i want you yo explain why it's scummy for to suggest this and why it isnt in town's best interest to do so ...

Wouldn't it be better to save the claim for D4? If the other PR claims now then they just die overnight. What am I missing here?

Who said we're having a day4?

[skitter30]

If we don't claim today,and just lose, what was the point of not ?

Like yeah they're most likely going to die over night, but if the game ends before then b/c we didnt have all relevant info why is that important

If we get it wrong today, the game just ends. We should use all information at our disposal to try to solve this today

Knowing who the last pr is is a key piece of info that will limit the pool and enable to focus on findjng the scum where it really matters.

1 pr claim, and you know you're town: you now have a pool of 3 to find 2 scum in. Makes it a lot easier, no?

[skitter30]

Since mallow flipped town I'm pretty confident we win by limming CSF and Arko but I need to reread the thread to make sure we don't fumble this

I think this is a scum solve. Arko has been pushing me a lot. Why isn't skitter scum here?

Uh from your pov why *am* i scum here, please respind to the post above, ty

[skitter30]

Csf and black

{In fact that's probably just the solve if you're town}

Where did this solve come from? Why are you suddenly more sus of Black over me than yesterday?

Yesterday you were utterly convinced that I'm scum, now CSF and Black is 'Probably the solve'? Make this make sense to me please

Ninja'd: Because a claim allows scum to come up with the optimal position for a counter-claim and force a 50/50. I think my odds right now of hitting scum are greater than that from gut and a variety of reasons I covered off on yesterday and I think a claim would muddy the waters on that.

Well i'm town, and you're asking me to answer the question assuming you're town, and i think arko is town, so i'm only left with two peiple who can be scum?

You're asking me to change a key assumption (i.e. assume you're town), so of course you're going to get a different result from yesterday ...

I'm literally answeing the question of: who's scum if you're town - of course the answet is not going to include you

[skitter30]

I still think it's skitter and black

B/c ...?
Wdym by 'still', this wasnt your solve yesterday

Why do you even think i'm scum here

you've both been independently scummy and kinda made sense as scum together too. I was suss of you two together

I would like you to elaborate on why i'm independantly scummy and why i'm still scummy in light of mallow's townflip, i would like you to include why i didnt push mallow yesterday if i'm scum

[skitter30]

I admit I might not know the best play here regarding the claim. In my head it just makes sense for the PR to claim if they are at risk of being limmed. If we lim wolf here and the PR survives overnight then they can just win the game by claiming in F3

I feel like i entered some alternate dimension: like the 'normal' protocal is to claim in elo lol

@csf do you think we should claim today?

[skitter30]

Csf ngl i really think you're scum here and noy acting in good faith

[skitter30]

I think this is a scum solve. Arko has been pushing me a lot. Why isn't skitter scum here?

Skitter can be scum here but I feel like you're not paying attention to my progression. I didn't think skitter was scum coming into the day because I mainly SR her in a tunnel involving a skitter/mallow pair. Since day start I've admitted to myself I could be wrong about sorting her as town just because mallow flipped town

I mean tbf you're also trying really hard to find reasons to sr me

[skitter30]

@black why am i scum here exactly

[skitter30]

Since mallow flipped town I'm pretty confident we win by limming CSF and Arko but I need to reread the thread to make sure we don't fumble this

I think this is a scum solve. Arko has been pushing me a lot. Why isn't skitter scum here?

Uh from your pov why *am* i scum here, please respind to the post above, ty

your push on delta yesterday felt like a scum push like you set him up to be pushed regardless of day 1 flip
not sure how i felt about how you saying mallow was flipping town, felt tmi-y. and at the same time, you didn't do much to actually stop his lim which I think you would've done if you were really townreading mallow as town

- yes, agreed, b/c delta is scummy. Why is this scum-me setting up a push, and not town-me pushing a sr
- why is a tr on mallow tmi? And i spent *so* much time yesterday trying prevent it, why do you think i didnt?

[skitter30]

let me actually grok the setup >_>

......
You're too experienced for 'yes' not to be the immediate answer
......

[skitter30]

I think it's optimal to fullclaim in elo

[skitter30]

I'm p sure i know which pr it is, and i know who it is anyways, but eh

Optimal is to claim

[skitter30]

Fair enuf
(And fwiw i wasnt arguing i'm clear either)

[skitter30]

I'm not, i'm saying i'm exasperated that we're doing this again today

It doesn't clear me at all

[skitter30]

I am also saying that people who think i'm scum b/c i'm partners with mallow need to reasses that worldview b/c i can't be partners with mallow

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

@skitter, that's understandable. I tunneled on mallow and you being a scum pair and I was wrong

We agree on CSF at least. I think she's the most likely wolf here

I admit I'm less sus of you skitter after Mallow's flip but I also don't think it's Delta here. In fact I think Arko had a much worse D2 than Delta

I think CSF/Arko is the most likely pair here with CSF/skitter and Arko/skitter as the only other possible options to me

I want to dive into these possibilities more when I get the chance later. One wrong vote and we just lose so I think we should take our time

I think this is a scum solve. Arko has been pushing me a lot. Why isn't skitter scum here?

Skitter can be scum here but I feel like you're not paying attention to my progression. I didn't think skitter was scum coming into the day because I mainly SR her in a tunnel involving a skitter/mallow pair. Since day start I've admitted to myself I could be wrong about sorting her as town just because mallow flipped town

The following quote makes it look like you're reversing that

also, can we circle back to why you're ruling out delta?

[skitter30]

Ugh sorry i broke the spoiler again >.>

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Also I'm pretty confident Skitter is scum - the reaction to the flip in #1251 is purely to bait out a 2nd PR.

- yesterday you thought it was me and mallow and mallow is town: you should really be reassessing your view of the game based on that
- i'm not fishing. It's elo and this is when prs should claim, esp. give that the tracker died. The doc should have been on her, but wasnt, so that indicates we have an FN: two of the other players already know ths anyways

Why exactly is this fishing, and why are you ascribing malicolious intent here. I.e. why is this more likely to come from scum-me than town-me

Why shouldnt they claim

Csf and black

{In fact that's probably just the solve if you're town}

Where did this solve come from? Why are you suddenly more sus of Black over me than yesterday?

Yesterday you were utterly convinced that I'm scum, now CSF and Black is 'Probably the solve'? Make this make sense to me please

Ninja'd: Because a claim allows scum to come up with the optimal position for a counter-claim and force a 50/50. I think my odds right now of hitting scum are greater than that from gut and a variety of reasons I covered off on yesterday and I think a claim would muddy the waters on that.

Well i'm town, and you're asking me to answer the question assuming you're town, and i think arko is town, so i'm only left with two peiple who can be scum?

You're asking me to change a key assumption (i.e. assume you're town), so of course you're going to get a different result from yesterday ...

I'm literally answeing the question of: who's scum if you're town - of course the answet is not going to include you

@ delta i would like you to acknowlefge and address the above plz

[skitter30]

I feel like there's a bit of a disconnect between what you said Skitter and how I read it but yeah I still scumread you.

Reads?

Ninja'd: I'm not completely sold on CSF, let me have a look at them both in ISO.

Preferentially I'd have Skitter go today.

Ok, can you elaborate on the disconnect please?

[skitter30]

I am eagerly awaiting Arko's contributions here...

I'm p sure he sitedflaked
I don't think the lack of activity is ai anymore

[skitter30]

I feel like there's a bit of a disconnect between what you said Skitter and how I read it but yeah I still scumread you.

Reads?

Ninja'd: I'm not completely sold on CSF, let me have a look at them both in ISO.

Preferentially I'd have Skitter go today.

Ok, can you elaborate on the disconnect please?

(Also why didnt you respond with that to my response?)

[skitter30]

@delta ngl i kinda feel like you're setting up leading arguments that are not in good faith and then not responding to my response, but just leaving the accusation in the ether, you dis this a bunch of times yesterday also

[skitter30]

Yeah. We'll wait 36 hours, he'll get prodded and replaced eventually

[skitter30]

Yeah i'm still confused why she's just ignoring delta here

[skitter30]

I feel like there's a bit of a disconnect between what you said Skitter and how I read it but yeah I still scumread you.

Reads?

Ninja'd: I'm not completely sold on CSF, let me have a look at them both in ISO.

Preferentially I'd have Skitter go today.

Ok, can you elaborate on the disconnect please?

(Also why didnt you respond with that to my response?)

@delta ngl i kinda feel like you're setting up leading arguments that are not in good faith and then not responding to my response, but just leaving the accusation in the ether, you dis this a bunch of times yesterday also

@delta are you ignoring me on purpose or ...

[skitter30]

I uhh forgot.
Fuck.

Anyways my blanket opinions looking at this shit is to me- CSF/Skitter, but we are in a pretty fucked situation, other combos might exist here, and I'm pretty sure we are fucked

I seriously have no clue. PR Claiming might actually be good- Skitter's right on that. I think I know what the PR is, but I'm not exactly sure. If PR Claims we either get a scenario where we win high-chance or we get a 2v2 situation, but if we got it correct it would most likely end in a win from today, and not require as much complex thought- still a lot, but no racking your brain for combos.

I will get way more free time either tomorrow or the next day and I'll get to actually figuring out where to go.

Huh
Heya arko

[skitter30]

And agreed, we should be claiming here

[skitter30]

I feel like i've already given one, but ok:

Town
Me
Arko
Black
Delta
Csf
Scum

[skitter30]

You're saying that there's a disconnect between what i wrote and what you read - i'd like you to articulate what that disconnect was and how you read what i wrote please

[skitter30]

Still waiting on that readslist Skitter

I mean if you want to just admit you're mafia that works too.

Why do I get the sense that Skitter is hunting in order to setup a counter-claim and then run the odds on a mislim

Is arko also doing that?

[skitter30]

Not to the extent you are

And nah I dont think I will. Mostly because it's immaterial, partially because I forgot, and additionally because you're part of the Mafia.

I mean so this is why i feel like you're making accusations in bad faith: you set up a question, i answered the question you asked, and then you complain about how i'm contradicting myself and then won't say how ....

And to me it isnt immaterial at all. You made an accusation, i did my part in respinding, and you're just ending the convo without following up

Like do you even care abt what i respond or ...

[skitter30]

How confident are you in your CSF read?

I want to finish the above discussion before answering this (or any other question really)

[skitter30]

Like quite frankly: do my responses to any of your questions make any material effect on anything you're going to do or say?

[skitter30]

I mean are you willing to lim csf?

You quite frankly don't seem particularly interested in the particulars of anything i'm saying - how are you even expecting me to try to convince you to lim csf here

[skitter30]

And i'm very willingto lim csf. But it's elo and we're not up to voting yet (and if i vote now and i'm wrong we just lose).

What do you expect me to be doing differently here?

[skitter30]

I mean I can make something up if that'll placate you? I forgot, and to me the opinion of a mafioso is immaterial.

Ninja'd:

I'm too solid in my read. None of what you post seems aimed at getting CSF limmed when they're apparently your top scumread. I can't take anything you say seriously given the scumread I've had over the last 2 days and it's going to take something pretty mega to change my mind.

I mean i don't want you to make something up. I want you to explain what you were thinking whej you wrote 1274 when it's p obviously in response to your own question

Again, this makes me feel like the question was a gotcha b/c i'm clearly answering something you asked like five minutes prior

I don't understand how you can get to the conclusion from that post that i dropped my sr of you when i'm answeing the question of 'if i'm town who's scum here'. Obviously i'm not including you in that pool, it doesnt mean my read changed overnight, and i don't see how you can possibly come to that conclusion based on the prior convo unless you're trying to take things out of context (which is p scummy)

If you actually misread it i want you to explain how. Otherwise i'm going to assume the question was a setup to push me and that you did it as scum in bad faith. I feel like i'm trying p hard to get town-you's view on that interaction but you're not cooperating, and if i don't getan explanation that i think can make sense coming from town you i'm just going to treat you as scum

[skitter30]

Fine, i will accept that. I need to get ready for work now but i will write up more on csf later

And honestly: the way you're interacting with people as town here leaves a lot to be desired. You don't have to freeze someone out just b/c uou scumread them, mala did the same thing yesterday

[skitter30]

On re-reading, I think looking back I mistook the 'This is probably the solve' bit as a statement to placate me that came from outside the confines of the 'assume I am town' statement, which really threw me.

I mean the following half sentence was like along the lines of 'if you're town', but ok

This is all i was looking for

I'm also gonna point out that scum already knew there wasnt a doc as they successfully killed mala so

It's not like you claiming gives them a ton more to work with, but it helps me a lot now cuz i'll stop pushing you and my pool is smaller. I would have continued and you would have ended up claimibg at some poiny today anyways

[skitter30]

After work tonight, i'm not going to be able to sit down really until then

[skitter30]

Will you actually read it and consider what i'm going to say?

Like i don't see much of a point of putting effort in otherwise

[skitter30]

For context if I have this wildly wrong and Black is scum, I'll eat my shoe.

I mean she's won two scumgames already so i'd be a *little* more cautious here, i'm not convinced she's out of her range or town here

[skitter30]

Arko/skitter actually has some weight to it. These two have been sussing each other all game but neither of them has voted for the other, not even once. The entire time Arko has been pushing CSF/skitter he's been saying CSF is the more scummy of the two and pushing her much harder. The random TR in 226 didn't feel good then and it doesn't feel good now while rereading. On D2 Skitter simultaneously TRs Arko while posting multiple times that she is suspicious of his lack of activity. This is fine at face value but it feels like riding the fence when looking back on it. One thing about this pair that I'm wondering about is Arko misgendering skitter around the 604 mark...does that really happen if they are scum together? I feel like Arko would be more aware of her pronouns and I'm not sure if skitter calls out her partner like that in the thread, but I could be wrong

I'm thinking this pair is less likely than CSF/Skitter but more likely than Arko/CSF

I think I want to flip CSF today

I feel like you're drawing a conclusion here that only makes sense if you look at every pairing but you haven't included delta in any of your analysis

Yeah i'm still confused why she's just ignoring delta here

I thought it was pretty obvious that I got Delta's night message. Why else would I go from scumreading him to taking him out of my pool entirely? This feels like the wolf team pressuring me to spill the beans here

Wasnt obvious to me at all, no

[skitter30]

I'm p sure i know which pr it is, and i know who it is anyways, but eh

Optimal is to claim

What did you mean by this then?

I thought arko was a doc who siteflaked and didnt submit an action

I didnt pick up on any FN vibes

[skitter30]

The reaction to my claim being to 'remove me from the lim pool' suggests that they were wrong so I'd like to know who and what they thought it was.

?

[skitter30]

Ah. Yeah i didn't think it was you

[skitter30]

B/c ...

[skitter30]

I mean from my pov you're both trying to shoehorn me into all possible teams ...

[skitter30]

Why does me/arko even make sense

[skitter30]

Well you were saying Arko was town all the way through yesterday and saying things like 'I think they're town but flaking'.

The reveal that you thought they flaked and that they were a Doc is ignorant of Mallow's N1 track - for the theory to stand up, then they also needed to not take any actions N1 as well. For them to not act N1 or N2 as a Doc would be highly unlikely, and remember Arko's D1 was significantly more activity-rich than D2. #803 crumbs this viewpoint, which is something that I find uncomfortable.

You can just as easily make the argument that i'm town and don't know ehat scum did each night ... like idk why you think this makes me informed

- i was in a game like two weeks ago where no scum took an action n1, so yes, i think missing an action is very, very possible, esp. for someone who was obviously out of the game yesterday. And exactly, i thought they took an action n1, b/c they were around day1, and didnt n2, b/c they werent around day2

Like from my pov you're looking for the scum motivation, but overlooking the town part and seeing of that makes any sense

[skitter30]

Well you were saying Arko was town all the way through yesterday and saying things like 'I think they're town but flaking'.

The reveal that you thought they flaked and that they were a Doc is ignorant of Mallow's N1 track - for the theory to stand up, then they also needed to not take any actions N1 as well. For them to not act N1 or N2 as a Doc would be highly unlikely, and remember Arko's D1 was significantly more activity-rich than D2. #803 crumbs this viewpoint, which is something that I find uncomfortable.

I mean this was an entite day ago and my pov changed in that time? Idk why you think my opinions are static

[skitter30]

Like between then and now:
- arko's activity fell off significantly
- the tracker died, so no n2 doc action (is there a doc? Did they not act?)
- i didnt pick up fn claims, so i thought a doc was more likely

So yes, my opinion changed from the startof day2

[skitter30]

Also how would i know if a doc did or didnt act n1 (or if arko did or didnt act n1), all i know is that *if* a doc exists, they didnt target alianna

Like an assumption you're making is that i think a doc exists but am ignoring the fact that they made a n1 action (so therefore my pov doesnf make sense), but there's no way to know if there *was* a night action anyway; i can't really use any information abt if a night action did or didnt happen

[skitter30]

And exactly, i thought they took an action n1, b/c they were around day1, and didnt n2, b/c they werent around day2

Why would you think Arko protected someone n1 if mala revealed he didn't go anywhere?

Huh i totally forgot abt that
Fair enuf

[skitter30]

So you guys think i:
- know mala tracked arko to not going anywhere
- still proposed that he might be doc while ignoring that

And the the conclusion is that i can be scum with him?

[skitter30]

Well, i forgot that he was tracked to going nowhere n1, so yeah i agree with you that given that him not acting both nights doesnt make sense

I was thinking he didnt act n2 and thought we didnt know anything abt n1

[skitter30]

I mean there is *absolutely* no way i would forget that as scum

[skitter30]

Why would i even propose that as scum even ...

[skitter30]

Ok let's assuming i forgot as scum

Why would i post *in this thread* that i thought arko was doc

What is my motivation for doing this

[skitter30]

But what am i trying to gain here even
I'm saying fine let's assume i'm scum and i forgot

You're saying:
- i forgot as scum that my partner was tracked and didnt go anywhere
- it entered my head to decide to fake he was doc regardless
- i only thought about what he did n2 and just ignored n1
- i ignored any other pr crumbs (which i'm v good at finding as scum, i can show u examples ...)

And just randomly decided to indicate my partner was doc

Why do i as scum even go that route
Why am i doing this. I admit i forgot aht n1 but why would i get anywhere close to this doc thng as scum

What is my motivation and just, like, why ?

[skitter30]

I think 1298 was you hinting that you thought it was Delta. When you said you had no idea it was Delta in 1367 and I questioned you on that in 1368 you had to come up with some other PR theory quick. I think it's entirely possible you slipped up here, forgot about the mala track and mentioned the Arko!doc theory

The only thing I disagree with Delta about here is that I don't necessarily think this links you to Arko, but it does strongly suggest to me that you're probably scum

What ...

you think i:
- thought it was delta
- mentioned that in thread
- p clearly indicated that i disnt know it was delta while also leaving crumbs that i thought it was him
- made up nonsense abt my partner in response to a post i would never have made as scum

I ... don't even know what to say to all this
Like you think i failed as scum in like 6 different levels here for this to make sense

[skitter30]

Like ... idk i don't know how to respind to this other than i'm not nearly as bad at scum as you seem to think i am for my actions to make sense

[skitter30]

I'm p sure i know which pr it is, and i know who it is anyways, but eh

Optimal is to claim

I don't make this post as scum ever

[skitter30]

I certainly don't without having an airtight explanation that is completely impeachable

[skitter30]

I can show you what me knowing who the pr is looks like even ...

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?p=13579129#p13579129

[skitter30]

Seeing it in the scum pt ^

Talking abt it in postgame
viewtopic.php?p=13607972#p13607972

[skitter30]

Like i kept up a very long trajectory for like weeks where i knew who the doc was (and most of the other prs) and pretended i didnt

[skitter30]

Speaking of, if you had thought Arko had siteflaked, wouldn't that just be NAI? Why did you think he was town for that? @skitter

More like i thought he was townie day1
Day2 it went down b/c of his activity

When i thought he siteflaked the lack of activity became nai, so the reasons to sr him went away, so i was left with a town impression

[skitter30]

I discussed your other question at great length

[skitter30]

Ok i'm not gonna put much more effort into this and i'll talk to u abt this in post b/c i don't think you're going to believe anything i say tbqh

[skitter30]

3....2...1......

Might depend on how long it takes for arko to post but yeah rhat's game

Pedit it's not giving up

You're itching and waiting to votr me and your mind is made up

[skitter30]

I'll have quite a lot to say in a bit but yeah holy crap was this frustrating

[skitter30]

There's a difference between what i can do now and what i can do when sitting down and looking at someone's iso, ehich requires a computer and more time than i can commit rn

[skitter30]

And sounds good, looking forward

[skitter30]

I said i would do it after work (i.e. 5pm or later)

I'm telling what i can and cannot do due to irl constraints between now and then. I would apprexiate u waiting until then as you said you would, but like i can't force you and it isnt happening before then

And honestly it's quite icky for you to say that this is scum motivated, but whatever. The fact that i have a job and can't commit to that at this moment has nothing do with my alignment

[skitter30]

And also i object * a lot* to the notion that i've not 'picked apart any arguments against me'

I've spent a lot of time responding to your posts, and explaining why i yhink you're wrong, or your understanding is wrong. I'm getting a lot of handwaving, unresponses, and ignoring a lot of things that should be points in my favor

I don't really see a point if you're that set and want to vote me and don't really want to have a dialogue. Like you're going back on what you've committed to and not responding to the crucial points of what i'm saying. I can't change your mind if you don't want to

[skitter30]

Ok

I'm getting frustrated and this isnt helping anything. I'll talk to u afte
Pedit there wego

Soooooo yeh

[skitter30]

So beyond frustatrating here

[skitter30]

Delta there were so many points here
Just like
Black was letting you do this, she's too smart to believe what she was saying

Like yeah

[skitter30]

Like there's just so much that i want to say here
That i probably shouldnt

But holy *** this is one of the single-most frustrating towngames i've played in a very, very, very long time

[skitter30]

Gg scum, you played well

I don't think this was unwinnable

Delta, mala, freezing out people b/c you scumread them quite frankly makes it unfun to play or be on the receiving end, and you could well be locking yourself into a wrong read

Pedig yeah so that's an indicator thar maybe you're on the wrong track

[skitter30]

Like there's just so much that i want to say here
That i probably shouldnt

But holy *** this is one of the single-most frustrating towngames i've played in a very, very, very long time

For the record I almost broke D2 when you were questioning why everyone was jumping on you. I even talked to Cat in the PT about maybe bussing her early because it made me sad that you were so frustrated

Easily my least favorite part about being a wolf

In a normal game i was doing v townie things
This was like some sort of alternate universe where normal things are scummy.

Nothing abt the 'doc slip' made any sense to xome from scum
I'm one of the best players on site, so for me to mess up that bad is laughable, and sharing counter meta isnt scummy

Once delta claimed i was p sufe it was you b/c you're smart and you were ignoring the main points thag should be clearing

I knew it was csf when she wasnf sure abt massclaiming in elo, that's literally mafia 101 and there's no way town-her wouldng agree. She's too experienced

That was the point of that question, and i got the response i was looking for if she was scum

[skitter30]

No scum has that amt of frustration is either
Full claim in elo is standard and suggesting otherwise is a scumclaim

Delta is playing from some other meta where he views these things v differently and i could tell i was not going to be able to convince him otherwise, so that was functionally game

[skitter30]

I think big thing is straight up after this game, there's no hard feelings from me towards or at anyone in the game.

Ninja'd: I was open to hearing you out but then there was 3 things that ping scum to me in I think as many hours, so I bit the bullet and went with my gut. It was wrong but there we go.

I mean i have a lot of hard feelings rn. I'll get over it in a few hours but like this was not a good feeling at all. I felt ignored and like you didnt care enuf to respond to me, and that it literally didnt matter what i say

It's a game abt dialogue. If you can't talk to your scumreads what's the point

[skitter30]

I had to chase you down repeatedly to get you to even acknowledge i was talking to you

[skitter30]

Yeah it was really gross and i knew you knew it was

All good, i'll be over it shortly

[skitter30]

Well I was talking to you but like I say I felt more confident in my read after your 300th post than I did after you committed to posting the solve at your 270th, none of what you posted in the intermediary was productive other than to defend yourself. I expressed this a few times, it went uncountered, I bit the bullet and committed.

I mean what did you think i should have been doing? Ignore you call me scum?

[skitter30]

Actually i don't think i should continue this convo, i'm not sure you really care and it's frustrating

Gg scum , ty gif
Sorry for being bitter

[skitter30]

Ok, i'm over it , and again apologies for being bitter, scum you played well

Both @delta/mala:
You froze me out for very large portions of the game, and wouldnt interact with me or what i was saying. It makes it very unfun to play with people who do that. In my mind it's common courtesy to respond to other people talking to you

Delta in particular: i literally had to chase you down to get you to acknowledge that i was talking to you, repeatedly. It was rude and very frustrating. I couldn't even tell if you were reading my posts. It felt like you would throw out an accusation and move on, you didnt even want a response, or care if there was one. On top of being bad gameplay from town, it's frustating to be on the receiving end, and there isnt really anything i could do abt it

More @delta:
- you were applying meta from some other site/experience, and using that as the golden rule for how to read people, when people were telling you that's not the case, or nai, here. When i realized that (+ above), i realized arguing didnt actually matter, and i functionally conceded b/c there wasnt a point in continuing the convo
- it was frustrating that you reneged on our agreement that you would wait for my csf case. I made it p clear i couldnt do that rn. What i was able to post was different than the effort required for that, and i communicated that
- generally, rushing elo is a bad idea. If you're wrong you just lose. There's no reason to rush, and a lot of reason to take your time to consider what's happening. People who are trying to rush things along often have an ulterior motive
- standard play is for everyone to claim in elo. Suggesting otherwise is v anti-town, and it is not even close to pr fishing to suggest that in elo
- generally things arent scummy just b/c you don't understand them. The question you should be asking isnt: 'do i understand this', but rather: 'does this makes sense for scum to do' . If the answer is no, it doesnt matter whether or not you understand it, it isnt really scummy. Your 'doc slip' was just kinda ????? b/c it didnt make sense for a thing to scum to do. Yeah i messed up and forgot arko got tracked, but there was abt 4 different points in this accusation that made no sense to come from scum, and that was glossed over.

Black - you've got a fantastic scumgame, would live to play with you sometime (or with town-you). You're really great at this

Csf- been a minute but fun to play with you as always

Would love to see all of you again in some other game, hope everyone sticks around

[skitter30]

For myself, i should have:
- not been so sus of kawaii or compared him to the prior game
- pushed csf harder
- paid more attention to the fact that black was pulling the same thing with mallow as she did with me/empathice last time and didn't learn from it

[skitter30]

Ty! I don't think i'm gonna play another newbie rn, but maybe something else, we'll see. Would love to play with you in the future!

[skitter30]

I'll take that onboard. I thought I was responding to everything and when you pressured me on it I did make sure I got back to you on it, but evidently I missed some. The reason I reneged on the agreement I doubt we'll agree on. You did things that I found to be scum-motivated in isolation that pushed the ticker further over and made me renege on it. After you 'gave up' was the moment I said sure. The doc slip made sense to me, it fit with the gut read of you/arko that I had and in the moment I saw it as scum flailing more than town forgetting.

I think Arko not being around really tipped this game for me to be honest - I think dipping and not requesting replacement for me if there's no interest is kinda eh. GG everyone though

There was a lot of material things that i said that i felt like you just ignored altogether, many times in response to direct questions you asked me. There was an interaction earlier where you said something like: 'i don't remember, i don't care, and i think you're scum so why should i talk to you'. I got that vibe a lot, and it was unpleasant

Also, i think it's important to view things from both sides: does this make sense to come from town, or scum. A ton of things can come from scum. But if it's equally likely to from town, you can't really call it scummy, b/c town can do it too. Maybe we're using the term 'scum-motivated' differently, but most of what you were calling 'scum-moticated' kinda boiled down to 'this pings me and i don't like it', without considering the broader impliactions if it makes sense for scum to behave in the way you're saying

Also, i didn't 'give up'. I recognized it wasnt winnable and decided to just accept that.

[skitter30]

Yeah I'm sorry, this was my first game in a while and I was SUPER rusty. I need to get better at articulating my thoughts and reasoning, that's something I'm not great at

Hey i think you did p good for playing again after a while! Games can mive kinda fast and it can be hard to explain what you're feeling and put it into words. Hope you play again :)

[skitter30]

Fwiw i don't think that would havd helped much - the person you needed to convince was delta and i think that would havs been read as an affirmation of a me/you team