Newbie 2117 | Postgame

[Black]

*Snip*

You too if you ever show up

[Black]

@mod please stop ninja'ing me. Who do I look like Delta or something?

[Black]

Andante I don't think that's a good vote. We need to lim either mala or Delta today I think

I don't think chao is actually following along. He said he read the last few pages and that he feels like we're talking in circles. That a really weird interpretation of recent events. So much has happened in the last few pages regarding me, mala, Delta, etc. Him not having an opinion on any of that tells me he's not paying attention

I guess it could be mala/chao but I'm just not seeing that as anywhere close to as likely as mala/Delta

[Black]

Like how is voting for a no-talker better than voting for your biggest SR? Especially considering the no-talker is on vacation and has said multiple times he doesn't have time to post. Yeah he could be lying but do we really want to assume that?

Mala is scum here. I need your vote or else she doesn't get limmed

[Black]

Your biggest SR is me, you've just hopped off my wagon because you know I'll flip town. Town also doesn't say 'if' I flip town. Scum!Black needed to intimate that they don't know alignments, but the only alignment that Town!Black would know is her own.

UNVOTE: Blue
VOTE: Black

GG, on the basis that Andante revisits my arguments D3.

I saw this coming from a mile away. Cute attempt to save your wolf buddy mala

I didn't "hop" off your wagon...I created the wagon and nobody joined. And mala is my biggest SR atm so idk what you are even trying to say here

There's no way you can win here Delta. If I'm limmed today then it'll just be you and mala gone D3 and D4

[Black]

Town is giving you a fighting chance by literally refusing to play the game, and we have a PR that is all over the place. We are trying to hand-feed you and mala the win but it won't happen after I flip town

[Black]

Delta, I know you're not this daft. If I think you and mala are scum together I'm going to vote for whichever of the two has more traction

And nah, we're flipping mala today, and when she flips wolf you're next

[Black]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a bus, because if Mala were to flip scum, that would give Black so much credibility going into tomorrow, and I would imagine then Black would focus on a me mislim or an inactive slot mislim.

I knew you would try to use this angle as well. So predictable lol

[Black]

If town would actually do something and stop letting wolves control this game then we might have a chance

[Black]

Why would Town!Black present a huge case on me, but then work to get someone else limmed whilst still calling me scum? It's apparent that I'm her biggest 'SR' yet she's focused elsewhere, and it's easier play off what could be a town!Mala flip than a Delta town flip.

You're either scum or you're daft writing this

[Black]

Andante is cleared. There was no cc. What are you even saying?

[Black]

Black - have you considered that we might be on Column A, row 2 here, where both PRs have no reason to call out Andante's claim as false?

That's not possible. No one has pushed for an Andante lim

[Black]

Actually I didn't think about that

[Black]

So if Andante is scum and they know we're in column A because they have a roleblocker, how would she know we are in row 2?

[Black]

Why would Town!Black present a huge case on me, but then work to get someone else limmed whilst still calling me scum? It's apparent that I'm her biggest 'SR' yet she's focused elsewhere, and it's easier play off what could be a town!Mala flip than a Delta town flip.

You're either scum or you're daft writing this

To elaborate on this, my "huge case" was literally a Delta/mala scum pair case and I even said at the bottom of that post that I want to vote for one of you. You are fabricating that I'm trying to get some random limmed to try and make me look bad

[Black]

I won't disagree that Andante probably shouldn't have claimed when she did but I also don't really see the wolf motive there. You could argue that maybe she was trying to get one of them to claim that she's lying but she wasn't even in danger of being limmed so I'm having a hard time seeing that as the optimal play for wolf!Andante

[Black]

To me it seems like you are sowing seeds of doubt to undermine Andante's claim so you have more options in 5p. I'm guessing you and mala are planning to go looking for the other PR tonight? That way once Andante survives you'll have more fuel to push this

Ninja'd: I'm not trying to do what you did to skitter last game. I've engaged with your arguments and told you how I feel about them. You couldn't even really give skitter that courtesy last game tbh

I'm not sold on my solve but it's the strongest feeling I have in the game, so I'm going to need to see either you or mala flip to know if I'm even remotely close here

[Black]

@Delta do you SR mala?

[Black]

I'm not letting go of a scumread on Black when I get it. I've done that before.

UNVOTE: Black

I really want to believe this is Town!Black with a confirmation bias issue.

Your wishy-washy stance here says you are a wolf. I don't see you backing off of this so quickly unless you know I'm town

[Black]

Jesus Christ you're seeing what you want to see here

Mafia is all about trying to see through people's lies and bullshit. Don't act surprised or upset. You are notorious for tunneling people

[Black]

@Delta you have rode the fence on mala the entire game. You even had a mala/Blue theorysolve and you still null read her lol

Blue and Kawaii aren't going to be limmed today. So if you think it could be mala then I think you should vote for her

But of course you won't

[Black]

You can dance around not voting mala all you want. When she flips scum it'll be extremely obvious who her partner is

[Black]

Blue isn't getting limmed so you are literally sidelining yourself for the rest of D2

[Black]

Mala.

Please explain why you think Delta is scummy

[Black]

You are waaaay more concerned with how people view you than you are with actually catching scum

[Black]

I wanted to outline Delta/mala interactions because the more I look at these two the more I'm confident this is the solve

First, from mala's POV. She has given a read on

every

player except Delta. It wasn't until I asked her about Delta that she finally buckled and said he's scummy, but since then she has ignored every attempt of mine to get her to elaborate on that read

Brz/Kawaii

: 253, 259, 260, 701, 713

Brian

: 260, 266

usesPython

: 260

Blue

: 576, 606, 713

Black

: 259, 703, 752

chao

: 255

Andante

: 256, 259, 260, 606, 702

Delta

: ????????

If we do the same from Delta's perspective, it looks very similar, except Delta has actually had a few reads on mala. They are null reads though and he has rode the fence on her slot the entire game

Brz/Kawaii

: 427, 447, 498, 636, 656, 679, 692, 742

Brian

: 299, 324, 371

usesPython

: 299, 447, 498

Blue

: too many to tag

Black

: too many to tag

chao

: 301, 498, 553, 558, 607, 679

Andante

: 299, 447, 487, 495, 499, 502, 507

mala

: 498 (fence riding), 607 (fence riding), 679 (lumping mala in with me is so strange here)

It should be clear from the above information that these two slots are actively avoiding giving solid reads on each other, and just avoiding each other alltogether. Delta has pushed literally every null/SR of his this game except for mala. He has given her a pass on her inactivity and lack of solving. And mala has given thoughts on literally every player except for Delta.

Delta

OPENLY

defends mala (who he's null reading at this time, I might add) in 397, 588, 614, and 616

This is the solve guys. We go mala first and if she flips town then just chuck me overboard D3. Even if she flips scum, I'm still willing to sacrifice myself D3 to appease Andante as long as

everyone agrees to lim Delta D4 when I flip town

. This is how town wins this game, and we need Blue/Kawaii to be on board with this

[Black]

I've been gone way too long, what's happening?

I think you should just read tbh

I think I have the game solved but I need more support

[Black]

I think kawaii and blue will come around if Andante doesn't

[Black]

Mala.

Please explain why you think Delta is scummy

Cuz I said so

If you are actually town playing like this then that makes me sad :/

[Black]

This game is severely lacking in activity and discussion to a point where it's not even really fun anymore, and you're just making it worse tbh

[Black]

It's just a bad time for everyone I guess. We're 16 hours from the deadline and I'm pretty sure the vote count is tied at 1 for like a few of us. Anything could happen in this gamestate

If it ends up being me I feel confident I left enough behind for the others to solve the game

[Black]

idk I like your effort, I'm going with you here!

Why not mala?

[Black]

I'm down to go either way but I'm just wondering if you think I'm voting Delta or if you would prefer to go there first

[Black]

Delta is in full on survival mode. In the span of a few posts he's gone from scumreading me saying he's never gonna drop the SR on me again, to dropping the SR a few minutes later and saying I'm probably town, to now saying I'm definitely scum. This type of wishy washy behavior doesn't come from town!Delta

VOTE: Delta

I'll respond to his other comments when I get out of bed but I'm happy to see the replacement/deadline extension. We desperately needed that

[Black]

@mala if you really think Delta is scummy then this is your chance to do something about it

[Black]

Yeah I'm gonna do a vote count analysis on Delta when I get to my computer because he has been all over the place

Re: lurking/coasting town - maybe I'm just optimistic but Kawaii popping in yesterday saying he will read gives me hope he'll contribute. We've got a chao replacement incoming (thank you chao) and Blue should get a prod today since he didn't come back from v/la yesterday

[Black]

Black is making a case on me because she knows that in order for her plan to succeed, she needs to discredit the loudest opposing voice in the room, that's me.

What exactly is my plan here if I'm a wolf?

She also knows that running a Lim on me and me flipping town will degrade her ability to control and influence the game, which is why she is running a wagon on Mala instead.

I'm not running a wagon on mala. Andante voted for mala and I sheeped her. Also this implies that you think mala is a wolf right? Nice scumslip XD

This 'solve' is completely fabricated. Lim me, watch me flip town and then take Black off the board. Or flip Black and we have a good shot at ending this Day 3.

If you flip town I will be perfectly fine letting the rest of the town lim me D3

If Black was town, she'd work to take out her dominant scumread. She isn't and is fabricating a case that allows her to flip someone (possibly her partner, possibly not) to push votes towards me D3.

Again hinting that mala might be a wolf here. Also re: working to take out my dominant scumread...I've literally been trying to get the thread to vote for you or mala for most of D2 so idk what you've been reading

[Black]

Alright time to do a VC analysis of my theorysolve team

DELTA

304 - Delta's first vote of the game is on Blue.

Reason: he doesn't think Blue has contributed much and doesn't like his tunnel on chao

340 - Delta votes Brian.

Reason: none stated, but this puts Brian at e-1 immediately after python and I vote for him

352 - Delta goes back to Blue.

Reason: Blue said he would be willing to hammer Brian after he hears from chao and Delta didn't like this mainly due to the fact that Blue hadn't given thoughts on other players

354 - Delta unvotes Blue.

Reason: he claims he missed the post where Blue gave his thoughts on everyone

368 - Delta votes Brian again.

Reason: none stated, but he makes a case in 371 about how Brian is scummy for using meta

495 - Delta starts D2 by voting Andante after posturing to do exactly that at the end of D1.

Reason: he didn't like Andante's hammer and kinda suggests a policy lim here. Delta isn't convinced Andante is scum but wants her gone anyway

522 - Delta votes for me.

Reason: he says pressure vote? On one of his top TRs and one of the most active people in the game? Nah...this is pure OMGUS. Delta votes for me right after I say that I think he's a wolf

538 - Delta unvotes me.

Reason: he admits he reacted poorly to me calling him a wolf

560 - Delta votes Blue.

Reason: he didn't like Blue rolefishing Andante

724 - Delta doesn't vote here but he declares intent to hammer Kawaii which is really weird considering Blue is his top SR and kawaii is basically non-existent. This was going to be an opportunistic hammer for the scum team because mala set up her vote on kawaii right before this. I unvoted Kawaii right after this because I saw it coming
791 - Delta votes me.

Reason: he thinks I made a scumslip and also thinks it's scummy that I wanted to vote for his partner mala. This is about the 5th time Delta has directly or indirectly defended mala

812 - Delta unvotes me.

Reason: he says he thinks I might be town with a confirmation bias issue. This unvote comes immediately after Delta said he's never letting a SR of me get away from him again

817 - Delta votes Blue again.

Reason: he goes back to saying we're most likely to hit wolf between Blue/Kawaii

846 - Delta votes me again.

Reason: more wishy washy takes here from Delta. This is his final vote and clearly an attempt to get the scum team's biggest enemy out of the way D2. I think he wanted to keep his vote on me in 812 but didn't want to end up on the same wagon as mala so he switched to Blue. Once he realized a Blue lim isn't happening he jumps back to me to continue the 1v1

MALA

195 - Mala votes me.

Reason: RVS

713 - Mala votes Kawaii.

Reason: This is the vote that happens right before Delta's 724 where he declares intent to hammer kawaii. This is an opportunistic setup for a kawaii lim especially considering we know for a fact that mala thought Blue and Delta were scummier than kawaii when she made this vote

751 - Mala votes Delta.

Reason: but only because I asked her to, and she didn't keep it there for long

774 - Mala votes me.

Reason: the same "scumslip" that Delta also moved on me for. They coordinated this

856 - Mala votes Delta.

Reason: I asked her to vote Delta, but this could be distancing if Delta flips scum

These REEK imo

[Black]

oh my sweet black

If I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time

At least I'm fucking trying

[Black]

It's so frustrating having you come in here and basically judge me for my case but give literally zero attempt to solve yourself. You still haven't told me why you think Delta is scummy even though you said you would this morning so I'm just gonna assume you don't want to play the game AT ALL

[Black]

Is it too late to revive the Mala wagon? I believe she's scum whether or not Delta is scum.

I'm starting to think this too kinda. Do you think I could be right about a mala/Delta team? Who would mala's partner be if it's not Delta?

[Black]

like I mean, Delta also came out SWINGING at me, like, why not go “why did you hammer” and keep it simple before the WALLS of “this is exactly why andante is scum!!”
then argued similarly for black!scum… and there was a point I was like “Black is maf!!” and he was like nahhh, the ease at which he can change his reads/whatever feels like something scum would do moreso than town

but hey, the lurking/coasting town aren’t reading…
this is just frustrating with essentially 4 of us playing this game

Would you rather go Delta or mala here? Who do you think is most likely to flip wolf?

[Black]

Let's not do stupid and haste decisions.

I mean you're pretty scummy. I don't think limming you would be stupid

[Black]

I really need Blue to answer my questions. If he flakes til the deadline I'm gonna be mad

[Black]

I'm tinfoiling a scenario where Delta/Blue is the team if mala flips town. Am I crazy?

[Black]

As far as delta.

I'm not entirely sure I was liking his first post 299 b/c it echo'd my thoughts regarding brian. I'm not entirely sure I like it just because he agreed with me on that, but now looking at it a second time I'm not entirely sure i didn't like the no vote by delta after posting that.

I'm not entirely sure I like the vote on blue. nor do I like the choice of words "Black don't make me tunnel you". evn tho it was clearly a joke via ninja

I don't like the fence sitting re: brian and then voting, but legit trying to tunnel blue when blue was expressing for time in regards to a scum hunting question and delta interfering there.

I could potentially see a delta chao team just for that lone (just putting it out there)

Mala why on earth would you wait until now to give these reads on Delta? These things happened like 20 pages ago at the beginning of the game. You mean to tell me you thought he's been scummy this whole time but you haven't brought it up once and have actively avoided giving reads on this slot and this slot only?

[Black]

ok

[Black]

I definitely don't wanna call you a liar here to I will just accept that answer ig

[Black]

So if I step out of my mala/Delta tunnel for a second I think my solves go as follows:

If Delta flips town then I think the team is probably mala/chao or maaaaybe mala/kawaii. I could even see a 3rd option of mala/Andante but that doesn't seem likely at all and requires me to assume Andante would make an incredibly risky fake claim not knowing what setup we are in

If mala flips town then I think the solve is probably Delta/Blue? Delta/chao? But ig Delta AND mala could be town which would make the solve something like Blue/chao or chao/kawaii. These seem less likely I think. I'm just having a hard time believing both wolves don't feel like playing the game

I'm ngl I haven't spent a lot of time looking into possible solves outside of mala/Delta because I just think I'm right here. But I want to throw these options out into the wild to see what people think of them

[Black]

I think mala is e-2 still? Same with Delta

[Black]

I'm voting for Delta because that's where you voted last night

[Black]

I will switch to mala to avoid a no lim though. I would like to hear more from Blue and Delta firsr

[Black]

i love how no one wants to go after kawaii even tho he's in his scum range right now

Kawaii siteflaking is something he does as scum? I don't even know what a Kawaii scum game even looks like tbh

[Black]

I'll be here

I feel like I'm always here

I'm addicted to this damn game

[Black]

Hi it's not me

Who is it then?

[Black]

Mala's partner should be in Delta, chao, Kame.

I think in your most recent Delta read you said he's not scum because scum wouldn't have the progression he had D2. Do you still feel this way?

[Black]

Ok. I appreciate you answering that for me

[Black]

Mala's progression into a case on me feels very forced, like it's a case borne out of wanting to survive not wanting to find scum.
Kawaii is a historic scumread of mine.
I feel like Blue is setting up to cross with me should I survive D2 and I'm now beyond convinced that both scum are within this. That might be tempered by the lack of interaction from that slot but with nothing to really go on recently I have to go on what I have.

Look there D3 if the hammer does drop on me.

Could I interest you in voting for mala?

[Black]

Deadline is in 5 hours btw

Where does everyone stand atm? I still think it's mala or Delta today and the kawaii counter wagon is pretty weird

[Black]

Unofficial Vote Count:

2.xx

Votecount 2.xx

KawaiiKame (3):

chaodck, Andante, Delta

Deltabreedy (3):

Black, malakittens, KawaiiKame

Malakittens (1):

BlueSnakelet

Not Voting (0):

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-07 15:21:08)

[Black]

The issue with that is that I feel like Black won't reconsider their reads in good faith at any point

If you just read my posts over the last few pages you would know this isn't true. I've already posted my thoughts on what the solve might be if I'm wrong about you/mala

[Black]

I don't like how you seem to be posturing yourself to push me D3 if Kawaii flips town. To me this feels like you know kawaii is town

[Black]

This is the same thing you did at the end of D1 to position yourself to push Andante D2

[Black]

Yeah put a lot of work into being open minded here haven't you?

I tunnel pretty bad as town. Just be thankful I was able to pull myself out long enough to consider I could be wrong

[Black]

Delta, do you have a case against Kawaii that goes beyond "well, they're either scum or anti-town and should be eliminated regardless"?

Do you have a case against Delta? I don't even think you've expressed why he's scummy iirc

[Black]

Delta your #925 kinda makes sense

I'm gonna be pissed if I'm getting talked out of a correct solve

[Black]

Delta if you think it's Blue/kawaii then why unvote the leading wagon to push a new one right before the deadline?

UNVOTE: while I think about this

[Black]

You threatening to hammer yourself does absolutely nothing for me tbh

Even if you and I vote Blue I don't think there will be enough support to push that through

[Black]

I think it has to be you or Kawaii this close to the deadline

[Black]

Frankly with Kawaii not being here ever, Andante being flippy & floppy as hell, with Chao being replaced and Mala not really being present much - I kind of need you to be town or we've already lost.

Are you suggesting kawaii might be town here? I thought you were 70% sure he was scum?

[Black]

I can't believe I'm about to let both Delta and mala survive this day phase

At least if I end up being right then I can blame the absolutely atrocious activity levels from the other townies for why my solve didn't get pushed

[Black]

I’ll vote kawaii to avoid a no elim

Also I thought kawaii hates meta reads

VOTE: kawaii

Would you be willing to vote Blue?

[Black]

What the hell

[Black]

If Kawaii is town KILL MALA AND DELTA

[Black]

What in the - I thought that was a Black vote, so I skipped the preview and just posted.

BS

It's you/mala if kawaii flips town

[Black]

I can't believe that just happened

[Black]

That's a tactically timed vote from Mala if ever I saw one

Yeah and you picked the absolute worst time to not fucking read who posted

[Black]

Mala KNOWS that you were considering hammering me

If Kawaii now flips town that solidifies the scumteam in my mind as Mala/Blue

Nope. It's mala/you. Mala literally hammered kawaii to save you

[Black]

And all these posts from you make me think you KNOW kawaii will flip town

[Black]

Listen I'm not expecting you to believe me on this - but what I do need is an ounce of faith that Mala has come in with this action that is very literally DESIGNED to get you to mistrust me.

You don't need to convince me that mala is scum

[Black]

Meh

I guess we'll see what happens and what kawaii flips

Also Mala didn't lim kawaii. You did. Idk why you would even rush to hammer that? You NEVER rush your posts

[Black]

I don't think anyone else should vote. It only takes 3 to lim and wolves need one more mislim and they win, that means if one townie votes for another townie they can both jump on for 3 votes and GG

I won't be around much today so no one do anything crazy

[Black]

the fact black is having any hesitation is making me think black is the partner

It's clearly mala. But is the partner Delta or Blue?

[Black]

I just don't see the point in rushing. I'll be here more tomorrow to make sure we figure out who mala's partner is

[Black]

that actually might be a good point... cause blue went from being blue.. to this super towny looking almost rehearsed convo with mala... cause why not just kill me? leaves no clears alive... hahaha I don't have the brain power for "why does scum want to play mind games" that blue iso is BAD..

It felt like Blue night have been trying to bus mala at the end of D2. But obviously I've thought it was mala/Delta for awhile now. In this situation we can't afford to be wrong so let's take our time

[Black]

Might*

[Black]

Yeah, idk. I'm curious who Delta thinks the duo is tbh

[Black]

It definitely could be mala/Blue. Looking back at mala's VC analysis, she never voted Blue despite SRing him basically the entire game

[Black]

Idk how but we are posting at the same time lol

[Black]

After a quick look at all 3 ISO's, I think this is where I stand

Mala is 100% scum

Mala/Blue is like 75% likely

Mala/Delta is 25% likely

[Black]

The fact that no one is even remotely considering this is sickening and just another reason why we are losing this game.

I considered it I just don't find it very likely at all

If Andante is a wolf then who is her partner?

[Black]

Judging by current events and even interactions from D2 I’d say blue snake is very likely

Why would they send blue to do the NK and not Andante?

[Black]

mala my sweet kitty where are you? Answer #999 pls?

Delta needs a prod. Blue is probably scum with you. Andante is only ever here in spurts, so the activity here is all making sense

[Black]

I already stated that I targetted Andante N2 b/c she is likely someone to do the kill because of her claim being fake.

Where did you say that?

I was asking why you thought Andante/Blue would send Blue to hit Aureal and not Andante

[Black]

Please ask me where you said blue would do the NK?

I was asking you why they would send Blue and not Andante, but you have since explained why

[Black]

Why would they send blue if andante is confirmed scum by the other town pr POV

That’s just stupid

They did send Blue though, in your mind, right?

[Black]

No,

a jailkeeper role blocks and protects at the same time

I was using it as a rb against andante
hence why i used it against her because I was thinking scum would likely use her to kill bc shes basically confirmed scum
and she has a 50/50 shot of being against a doc vs jk

That's what I'm saying. Idk where the confusion is here. You rb'ed Andante so if you think Blue is her partner then you think Blue did the NK right? What am I missing?

[Black]

No, I think Andante did the NK hence why I used JK as RB'r

What? If the wolves sent Andante to do the NK then Aureal wouldn't have died. What are you talking about?

[Black]

I never said it cleared her I was literally just trying to figure out who you thought did the NK

[Black]

I think Blue being so quiet here is pretty telling tbh

[Black]

Ninja'd: Yeah if what you're saying is true, then Andante couldn't have done the NK - the logic wouldn't work if you really were a JK. You know your own night actions, why would you then go on to say something that is completely incompatible with your claimed actions?

Bingo. mala said she thought Andante did the kill even though that's impossible. That makes me think mala is lying about her night actions

Of course I thought that anyway, but I wanted to entertain mala's Andante!scum theory

This is a town post by Delta btw. I'm convinced it's mala/Blue

[Black]

No, I think Andante did the NK hence why I used JK as RB'r

Yeah like Delta said, this feels like a slip. There's no way you could think Andante did the NK after Aureal died

[Black]

I TARGETTED HER THINKING SHE WAS MOST LIKELY TO DO THE FUCKING KILL

OBV SHE DIDNT
BUT IT DOESNT CLEAR HER BECAUSE SHE IS STILL SCUM
SHE JUST DIDNT DO THE KILL

Yeah I understand all this mala, I just think your word choice saying "I think Andante did the NK" after I asked you if you thought Blue did it was really weird. You THOUGHT Andante would do the NK but if you are telling the truth then there's no way you would think she did it over Blue here

[Black]

and we are letting the bullshit excuse of
"I thought it was one shot"

when it clearly states in the PM that its ONE PLAYER PER NIGHT

It fits her chaotic play doesn't it? It's pretty clear she is barely paying attention to the game

[Black]

please explain how this is a slip
bc i dont fucking understand
its not a slip

Ok I'll walk you through it

997 - I ask you who you think Andante's partner is
998 - you say Blue
999 - I ask you why they would send Blue to do the NK and not Andante
1001 - you ignore this and say you targeted Andante bc she was likely to make the kill. Then you say that you never said Blue made the kill. Idk what you are even trying to say in this post
1006 - you say it doesn't make sense for wolves to send Blue to make the hit
1009 - I say that in your mind you should think that the wolves sent Blue bc you blocked Andante and a kill still went through
1010 -

you say you don't think they sent Blue

1013 - I'm confused and I ask you to clarify, because if you think Blue is Andante's buddy then you should think Blue was sent to make the NK
1014 -

you say again that you think Andante made the NK

This is a slip. You're not the Jailkeeper

[Black]

@Delta - we definitely flip mala today. That clears Andante. Blue will kill Andante N3 and then it'll be up to me and you to vote for Blue

Town loses if you are somehow fooling everyone here

[Black]

God I'd love being a genius of that caliber.

Why are you so convinced it's blue and not me?

I hate meta but

You've fooled me before. Keen on hearing why you're so convinced when yesterday you were pretty sure it was me.

Once I got out of my tunnel I started looking back at the thread in a new light. I didn't like how it felt like Blue was trying to bus mala at the end of D2. I don't like how mala has SR'ed Blue the entire game and never voted for him. I also think your AtE at the end of D2 might have swayed my gut feeling a bit. If you are scum with mala then why would you beg me to lim mala first? That would only make sense if you were scum with Blue, and that can't be true since one of mala/Andante has to be scum. I guess you could be scum with Andante? Not sure how I feel about that scenario

[Black]

fucking bullshit 1045 loses the game and scum wins

do you really want to do that?

if you are telling the truth about being the JK then this loss is on you and all the other inactive townies that refused to play the game tbh. it's not fair for you to try to pin it on me

[Black]

How does you voting for kawaii suggest you are town?

[Black]

@mala

I will entertain the idea of you telling the truth, but you have to show me you want to solve the game

Do you think Blue or Delta is more likely to be Andante's buddy?

One of the main reasons I'm having a hard time believing you is it hasn't felt like you've wanted to solve beyond "Andante is lying." It feels more of a survival tactic when you don't immediately come in here with theories on who her buddy is. If you're telling the truth I feel like you would be eager to solve for the missing wolf. Like if it were me and I was the JK I would have been pouring through the thread looking for who Andante's buddy might be

[Black]

From my POV...one of {Delta; Blue} is scum, but not both

There can't be two scum between {Black; Delta; Blue} or else the game would be over now

So now it's deciding what claim to believe and who the other wolf is between Blue and Delta

[Black]

That Jailkeeper claim is probably bogus. I refuse to believe Scum!Andante would claim Town Friendly Neighbor with a 2/3 chance of being counterclaimed immediately. Plus, that "crumbing" doesn't look intentional.

Who do you think the scum team is?

[Black]

Also idk if this needs to be said or not but whoever is town out of Blue/Delta should not vote. If you vote wrong the other will just insta vote and gg

[Black]

Blue's best chance of survival is to try and force you to lim between me and them D4, given you were pretty convinced it was me after thee hammer D2.

That's what's going to happen regardless. And whoever is town between you two will have to decide if it's me or the other

[Black]

Blue's best chance of survival is to try and force you to lim between me and them D4, given you were pretty convinced it was me after thee hammer D2.

Why would you give Blue a position here anyway? Reads a little nervous

[Black]

Like obviously Blue might think of that angle if he's scum but what if he didn't? You just gave it to him. I don't see why town!Delta would post that before letting Blue answer my question. Make it make sense

[Black]

I guess you have a right to be nervous. You and mala have bad associatives

Do you think there's a chance it could be Andante here?

[Black]

you're suggesting you buy Mala's soft? I showed how I could do the exact same thing. Plus the way blue started today.. matched with mala's prepared case. blue hasn't cared about this game... for like the entirety of the game, yet all of a sudden you think town!blue is starting day as the expert scumhunter??

No. I think it's mala/Blue

We're limming mala today, but that doesn't mean I can't get a feel for how everyone feels about things

[Black]

when instead it should be you figuring it out between blue and delta... cause you KNOW that is a 50/50 from your pov

Yeah I'm trying to figure that out. Kinda hard when Blue literally never posts. But honestly that's pretty telling in itself

[Black]

Where tf is Blue?

[Black]

Sorry, I found myself without an internet connection for the last 12 hours or so.

And the 12 hours before that?

Is it wrong of me to get upset with players that sign up for Mafia games just to not play them?

[Black]

I find it amazing how Black waited until Elo to completely turn against me after townreading me for the whole game. Throughout D3, she's been setting up a final three with me, her and Delta, on which I'll obviously be eliminated because Delta will never not scumread me.

It's amazing what I can do when I get out of a tunnel

Who is mala's partner?

[Black]

Uh.. you? Did I not made it clear already?

lol no? Where would you have supposedly made this clear?

[Black]

I see

So your angle here is to try and convince Delta I am mala's partner, because you don't think you can convince me that it's delta

Not the route I'd choose but you have to try something

[Black]

I don't really have much of a choice, have I?

I was gonna respond to this but Delta and Andante pretty much said what I was gonna say

I also don't understand your position on me after TRing me all game and SRing Delta. Now you think I'm wolf and he's town? Where's the progression?

I'm happy with this solve too. If it's Delta/mala or somehow Delta/Andante (lol) then well fucking played

[Black]

here's a tip for the future, if you had just killed me, black and delta very likely would have still been tunneled on each other

Yep. I think they put too much faith into mala's cc

[Black]

The only difference is we have looked elsewhere, it just doesn't look as likely

[Black]

I think I'm ready to vote mala

Andante probably deserves this win if she's lying

I'll wait until I wake up just in case Delta/Blue have any objections

[Black]

Normally, when I'm the most suspected player, I don't even try to defend myself. The fact I'm town would just be the starting point from which I would give all my thoughts. I'd let my flip validate all of my past words.

But annoyingly, Black waited until Elo to start pushing me, so even that's not an option.

If you're town and it's Delta/mala here...then you not defending yourself can just be added on to the pile of why we lost this game. I'm not criticizing you for not playing everyday, but you barely played at all. You signed up for the game and put it in the back back back burner. I can't properly read someone that refuses to play, so if I'm reading this situation wrong then it can't possibly be all my fault

[Black]

VOTE: mala

[Black]

I think you guys would've won if you killed Andante and tried to paint Delta as the mala partner

[Black]

With the right argument I probably would have gone back in my Delta tunnel

[Black]

There is no fence sitting going on

I've been wanting to lim mala for like a week now

[Black]

If you're referring to me keeping the options open and considering all angles then yeah, I'm guilty, but that's just me trying to work on my flawed town game. I'm trying to fix the problem I have where I tunnel too much

[Black]

If I'm scum with mala then why would I flip on Delta? I could've just pushed that even harder after the end of D2 and Blue would've just tagged along

Yeah this is WIFOM but if you think about it, scum!Black doesn't make sense here

[Black]

Blue, it's obvious you're scum here because a townie wouldn't vote out the gate in 3p ELO. That's like rule number one in this scenario. You never vote here unless you're 100% and there's absolutely no way you would be that sure it's me here if you were town. Especially after scumreading Delta for like the whole game. And you didn't start scumreading me until D3 when it was convenient for you to do so

You voting ensures a Delta win if you are wrong and there's just no way a townie makes this move. I was already convinced it was you yesterday and this just seals the deal

Delta wins if he's scum, so there's no point holstering my vote now

VOTE: Blue

[Black]

So she immediately swiched from townreading to scumreading me. Delta still showed intent on eliminating me, so she knew that bringing both of us to the final 3 was a sure way to win the game.

It wasn't even immediate. It was gradual actually and it started on N2 after the whole mala/Delta kawaii vote. I forced myself to look at the game outside of my Delta/mala tunnel because it didn't make any sense for Delta to practically beg me to lim mala first if they were scum together. Then you were quiet af D3 and Delta was around to solve. It became pretty obvious to me at that point that we were working with a Blue/mala team

[Black]

Can either of you answer why scum!me would go from screaming at the top of my lungs that it's Delta/mala at the end of D2 to thinking it's Blue on D3? What do I gain from that? Why wouldn't I just stick with my Delta/mala theory since Blue SR BOTH of them?

Not trying to use wifom but I think it's important to consider this question

[Black]

Also I want to respond to Andante's accusations because I rolled my eyes when she used her last breath to change her whole solve

[Black]

why would I flip on Delta?

cause I've been deadset on blue, and you've been waiting for me to vote blue here... like from the start you've been "yeah andante I believe you!!!" but then what, you wait for your sr blue to vote mala for you to vote your partner??

I was never waiting for Andante to vote Blue and I said multiple times yesterday that mala was the lim

cause you literally just sheeped your SR.. so it's like, what have you been waiting for all day?

I didn't sheep Blue lol. I voted for Blue's partner, the person who I said I was gonna vote for the entire day

I thought you were waiting for Delta, to see if he was ready to end day...

I did. I said I would wait until morning to vote to see if Delta/Blue had any objections. Delta got the chance to talk and didn't object, and blue voted for mala. And at that point blue wasn't contributing anything so it was pretty clear to me what the solve was. I didn't think we needed any more time to discuss. And with how Blue came into 3p ELO with an ill-advised vote, it looks like I was right

[Black]

Delta, I know it's going to take you getting over a mental hurdle to trust me and vote Blue here. But if you are able to do it then we win this game together

I'll be popping in to answer any questions you have that'll make this decision easier for you

Ninja'd: will look at that separately

[Black]

@Blue where was your progression in flip flopping on your Delta/Black reads? Why did you suddenly reach the conclusion that it's 100% me and 0% Delta?

[Black]

For scum to win, they only have to reach Elo with one townie that will definitively vote for another.

I have been flippy-floppy on my Delta read, and was, by your admission, hard to read. There was no guarantee that I would retain my scumread in the moment it matters.

You have

not

been flip-floppy on me though. You thought I was town the entire game. You didn't SR me until I had already accused you of being partners with mala

So going back to the start of D3, it wouldn't make sense for me to change my tune from Delta!scum to Blue!scum if I were actually scum. The play would've been to keep my mala/Delta stance and let you continue to TR me/sus Delta. Then I could take you two to this situation and we would vote Delta ez pz

Why would I purposefully choose the harder path to victory if I'm scum?

[Black]

Mala's partner should be in Delta, chao, Kame

Yeah. There's just no way town!Blue carried this opinion all the way to D3 and then suddenly drops the possibility of it being Delta in 3p ELO. That never, ever comes from town!Blue here

[Black]

Harder path? Anyone reading the game can see that Delta voting me is more likely than me voting Delta.

This was

not

more likely at the beginning of D3 and you know it. Before I decided it was most likely you/mala on D3, you SRed Delta and TRed me. So at that point why would scum!me switch to painting you as the partner when I could have just taken you and Delta to P3 and we vote Delta off? There was no indication you SRed me at all when I switched from Delta to you

[Black]

For you, supporting Delta and eliminating me is more likery to work than the other way around.

I strongly disagree here. In a scenario where I'm scum and you're both town, I side with the person that TRs me and SRs the other guy. That's you Blue. It doesn't make sense for me to try to side with Delta, the person that has scumread me for a lot of this game, and trust that he will choose me over you. That's a lot more work

Also you never answered me. Why did you come into this situation thinking there's a 0% chance it could be Delta? That should be the main proof for Delta here that you're scum tbh

[Black]

Town!Blue approaches P3 ELO very differently imo. He weighs the options between Delta and I and carefully considers who mala's buddy is

Scum!Blue does exactly what you did though: vote immediately to set up a 1v1 for Delta to sift through

[Black]

We win Delta

[Black]

Fuck yes!!!

[Black]

I could kiss you right now for making the right decision here

[Black]

Nice try Blue!

I'm pretty happy with this win. I stumbled on it being mala by incorrectly pairing her with Delta, which eventually led me to Blue

I could've lost this game for the town if I didn't get out of my tunnel

And Andante could have lost this game for the town just by being so damn suspicious of me lol

[Black]

I'm updating my sig before furtive even confirms it lol

[Black]

Well played Delta. Sorry for SRing you for like half the game -_-

[Black]

Well if you had started to SR me again then town probably loses, so I'd say you played it pretty well, even if it was on accident lol

[Black]

And Andante could have lost this game for the town just by being so damn suspicious of me lol

I'll just take this as a sign that I did at least something right.

I think you played pretty well tbh. The only thing I would've done different was try to solve more on D3 and D4. Especially D4. If you had come into this situation trying to solve and figure out it's me or Delta I don't think this ELO would've been so easy

[Black]

The fact that you came into it voting for me after SRing Delta for most of the game was the nail in your coffin I think

[Black]

^^

The flip to me being the person with the hammer felt so weird. Probably would have been better to off me and let Andante follow her run on Black from post-hammer D3, but hindsight is 20/20

Yeah I was actually legitimately worried about this. Andante just votes me off here I think

[Black]

Fun game guys! Thanks for modding @furtive

Link the wolf PT when you get a chance, I wanna read

[Black]

So, I am definitely counting this for my townstreak but do I get to add the win to my record too? (it really needs it)

I was so excited when you replaced in just to get crushed right afterwards

I thought surely you would be able to solve this with me

[Black]

/signed

[Black]

I'm dying to read the Dead/wolf PT. I already messaged furtive about it lol

And yeah my winrate is through the roof but most of the wins are in the newbie queue so I'm not sure how impressive it actually is XD