Newbie 2129 - Postgame

[SmileyDude1]

Hello everyone!

VOTE: iamveryhappy
before we cause a positivity overload

[SmileyDude1]

wat

bad joke/troll, however you put it

also quite sussy to believe that the "you're under the arrest" part was a cop soft.

agree on this

HC WW FBI AGENT
(wish holo were here fr)

frfr

I TR jokes. When scum I find it hard to relax enough for jokes.

But BAD jokes on the other hand...

might be an SR

What do you call two cows arguing












A Beef

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE: SmileyDude1

[SmileyDude1]

So far MagicalSteve seems to be the town leader

-SNIP-
Hmmm, guess we're not in RVS anymore. Shame it was fun while it lasted.
-SNIP-

Ugh, now I actually have to try a bit
UNVOTE: SmileyDude1

In all seriousness I have to start getting ready for work right now, will inform you on where i'm at after my shift ends (probs in around 9-12 hours of this post)

[SmileyDude1]

So far MagicalSteve seems to be the town leader

-SNIP-
Hmmm, guess we're not in RVS anymore. Shame it was fun while it lasted.
-SNIP-

Ugh, now I actually have to try a bit
UNVOTE: SmileyDude1

In all seriousness I have to start getting ready for work right now, will inform you on where i'm at after my shift ends (probs in around 9-12 hours of this post)

So right now i'm getting fairly alright vibes from the majority of those who have posted so far. CCGeek gets town points for working to get the game out of RVS and I agree with Holdsteady's take on their 130.
MagicalSteve's 12, did originally ping as off for me, but their 86 made me feel a lot better about that slot.

I do have a couple of questions though

Clem thoughts on the people on nv fr

Actually yk lemme just put some pressure on this slot, yk? VOTE: [/Brassherald]

I'm not following this progression, Can you elaborate KawaiiMikuStan?

-SNIP
The only person here I've played with was SmileyDude. I was on a scum team with him in my last game. So far he's acting very similar to how he did last game
-SNIP-

What similarities are you seeing?

[SmileyDude1]

They feel too... lurk-y, they contributed ever so slightly by sharing reads and voting me.. then pop! Kaboom! Dissappear! Not very wonderhoi, but w/e. I just wanted to force more stuff out of em, yk?

I can see how you reach that conclusion, BrassHerald's ISO is light on non-RVS content so far. I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.

I feel neutral about that answer

[SmileyDude1]

I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.

First the self-vote and now suggesting yourself as someone to look into... Weird.

The former was my attempt at humor. As for the latter, how do you generally read self-criticism? Personally I want to say I'm of the opinion that it's fine (if i'm being honest I haven't been around here long enough to establish a baseline on these things yet) to point out flaws in my own play when they come up.

[SmileyDude1]

I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.

First the self-vote and now suggesting yourself as someone to look into... Weird.

The former was my attempt at humor. As for the latter, how do you generally read self-criticism? Personally I want to say I'm of the opinion that it's fine (if i'm being honest I haven't been around here long enough to establish a baseline on these things yet) to point out flaws in my own play when they come up.

It's fine to acknowledge flaws, it's just interesting to me to see a self... indicting??? (not really the word but eh) pattern like that. Especially early like this, even if you say the vote was just RVS sillies.

That's fair. Do you think it's just interesting or do you think it's AI in some way though?

[SmileyDude1]

I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.

First the self-vote and now suggesting yourself as someone to look into... Weird.

The former was my attempt at humor. As for the latter, how do you generally read self-criticism? Personally I want to say I'm of the opinion that it's fine (if i'm being honest I haven't been around here long enough to establish a baseline on these things yet) to point out flaws in my own play when they come up.

I generally just play my game and think things I think I don't tend to suspect myself because I already know what my role PM said. I had to type it and everything

This pings me slightly. It's a bit of an uncharitable take to go as far as to imply that I "suspect myself" due to being self-critical. I know that i'm town here and it's because I know this that I feel alright acknowledging flaws in my play up when they come up (my 142 was pointing out a potential hole in Kawaii's progression onto Brass. the reasoning they gave I felt applied more to other players including admittedly myself at the time they had made that post)

[SmileyDude1]

Also will just go ahead and say that I think there is a decent chance that there's scum pushing my self-vote here. BrassHerald's 154, and SevenEyes's 164 stand out because they came after my explanation earlier.

As such, VOTE: BrassHerald

[SmileyDude1]

I literally said not to push your self vote and then just agreed with another person on your answer to it being weird.

Commenting on the game state is a normal way to play the game. Weird isn't even a push. It's just weird. Town can be weird.

I think I may have misinterpreted your 154 as saying that both my self-vote and self criticism was weird in isolation when you meant that they were weird put together. The former didn't really make sense since you defended the self-vote earlier, the latter is a fair point

And why are you counting out high princess, the literal one I was agreeing with it being weird with?

My reasoning on this mainly stems that they're suspicion came before I had actually explained my actions and so I understood why my actions up to that point would be seen as weird out of context, the two posts mentioned in 170 came after I had already explained and felt dogpiley (probs not the right word for it, but alas) to me.

Though given the misunderstanding UNVOTE: BrassHerald
VOTE: SevenEyes

[SmileyDude1]

1.05

Votecount 1.05

brassherald (2): KawaiiMikuStan, SmileyDude1
MagicalSteve (1): iamveryhappy
iamveryhappy (1): HighPrincessErinys
KawaiiMikuStan (1): brassherald
SmileyDude1 (1): CCGeek

Not Voting (3): TheHoldSteady, SlowthePoke, MagicalSteve

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-08-19 01:38:13).

Also @Alianna, you forgot to switch SlowthePoke out for SevenEyes on the VC

Thank you, I'll fix this!

- Alianna

[SmileyDude1]

I literally said not to push your self vote and then just agreed with another person on your answer to it being weird.

Commenting on the game state is a normal way to play the game. Weird isn't even a push. It's just weird. Town can be weird.

I think I may have misinterpreted your 154 as saying that both my self-vote and self criticism was weird in isolation when you meant that they were weird put together. The former didn't really make sense since you defended the self-vote earlier, the latter is a fair point

And why are you counting out high princess, the literal one I was agreeing with it being weird with?

My reasoning on this mainly stems from it's suspicion coming before I had actually explained my actions and so I understood why my actions up to that point would be seen as weird out of context, the two posts mentioned in 170 came after I had already explained and felt dogpiley (probs not the right word for it, but alas) to me.

Though given the misunderstanding UNVOTE: BrassHerald
VOTE: SevenEyes

EBWOP, to account for HPE's pronouns (Have a bad habit of defaulting to they. sorry )

[SmileyDude1]

Hello people, I exist (probably), someone talk to me about the fact that we are halfway through day 1 and 2 people have non-existent ISOs.

Well, 3 people, actually. Include Brassherald in that list. I just revisited Brassherald and I'm really conflicted. While I give SevenEyes a pass for newbie awkwardness (which I shouldn't), Brassherald has this weird non-committal tone which I really don't like, but well gut reads can get me so far.

My impressions about MagicalSteve start from a negative intercept but now I definitely TR him for this day at least.

I will refrain from attempting to read LuB even remotely.

Is it weird that I find the brassherald-SmileyDude interaction slightly stiff?

TR: TheHoldSteady > MagicalSteve
TL: Iavh,
Null: LuB > SmileyDude > SevenEyes > Erinys
SL(?): brassherald
SR: None so far

(Assuming you're talking about Seven,Brass and HPE. Correct me if i'm wrong)
I'd say of these three, SevenEyes has the least substantial content, though this may well be because they're having trouble keeping up so far. HPE and BrassHerald's ISO's have more substantial content to work off of imo, but i'd agree i'd like to see more out of these slots

@SevenEyes, do you have any impressions of the gamestate so far?

[SmileyDude1]

Town
CCGeek- Town Read
MagicalSteve- Town Lean
iamveryhappy- Town Lean
TheHoldSteady - Town Lean
HighPrincessErinys- Null
KawaiiMikuStan- Null
BrassHerald- Null
SevenEyes- Slight Scum Lean
Scum

This is where i'm at right now.

[SmileyDude1]

wat

bad joke/troll, however you put it

also quite sussy to believe that the "you're under the arrest" part was a cop soft.

agree on this

HC WW FBI AGENT
(wish holo were here fr)

frfr

Calling Magic Steve suspect for a cop claim joke. IAVH said it first. CCGeek seconded it. I’m calling a foul there.

VOTE: CCGeek

So far MagicalSteve seems to be the town leader

-SNIP-
Hmmm, guess we're not in RVS anymore. Shame it was fun while it lasted.
-SNIP-

Ugh, now I actually have to try a bit
UNVOTE: SmileyDude1

In all seriousness I have to start getting ready for work right now, will inform you on where i'm at after my shift ends (probs in around 9-12 hours of this post)

So right now i'm getting fairly alright vibes from the majority of those who have posted so far. CCGeek gets town points for working to get the game out of RVS and I agree with Holdsteady's take on their 130.
MagicalSteve's 12, did originally ping as off for me,

but their 86 made me feel a lot better about that slot.

I do have a couple of questions though

Clem thoughts on the people on nv fr

Actually yk lemme just put some pressure on this slot, yk? VOTE: [/Brassherald]

I'm not following this progression, Can you elaborate KawaiiMikuStan?

-SNIP
The only person here I've played with was SmileyDude. I was on a scum team with him in my last game. So far he's acting very similar to how he did last game
-SNIP-

What similarities are you seeing?

Can one early post make someone feel “a lot better” about a slot?

For myself it did. When I originally saw their 12, I harbored concerns that said post came off as rolefish-y (it's also why I found CCGeek's 41 to be fine, I had similar concerns). I felt that their 86 was a valid explanation and I liked that they gave an analysis of their takes on the gamestate within it. I'd think scum would be more likely to be content with defending themselves, and it's + town for me that they went the extra step there (even given it wasn't substantial) especially since it'd be easy to justify otherwise due to being in RVS at the time. "A Lot" may have been a slight stretch on my part, but I'd say they went from a slight scum lean to the town side of null within that one post for me.

[SmileyDude1]

Okay but actual question, how do we proceed from here?

Given that we're approaching 4 days until deadline we should probably start consolidating so we have time for claims and discussion. I have to leave for work in a second, but i'll be back later to discuss.

[SmileyDude1]

Also lol, I just checked VC and taking into consideration where votes have moved since then I think there are 6 different people who are at 1 vote rn . Anyways, got to go, see you later

[SmileyDude1]

Fine with pressure on the BrassHerald slot. I will admit a small part of me feels paranoid due to the slot approaching "consensus lim" status, but I want to see where this leads.

[SmileyDude1]

As for Seveneyes, I’m leaning newb town. Newb scum might not be so unsure of what to do since they can be coached in the PT now.

Agree on this, was coming to the same conclusion myself while thinking about this game today.

UNVOTE: SevenEyes

[SmileyDude1]

Also this is a good time to start looking at backup choices for a lim because if we change our minds about Herald's slot we don't want to be stuck trying to figure out who else with just hours left in the day

So, who else?

I think right now I like Kawaii most as a backup. As I alluded to in my 142, I'm not confident that their stated reasoning for originally jumping onto Brass in their 141 actually tracks, and given that they stated in 141 that they voted Brass to get more out of the slot it feels off to me that they haven't done much to progress on this despite Brass gaining traction here. (Looking at their ISO this could be because they've had trouble accessing the thread due to phone repairs via 181, but that same post also implies that they resolved the issue and the wagon on Brass came after that so I think this still applies)

I think at most only one of Kawaii/Brass actually flips red here though, so I'd only want to pivot towards the slot in the event that Brass/Replacement comes back with a solid response here

[SmileyDude1]

Does anyone have any thoughts on just making the hammer? Seems like there’s gonna be a replacement anyway. Could just save all the hassle?

I think in most cases it's +town to allow replacements in these scenarios a chance to talk as seeing how the slot approaches pressure on it can be useful later even if we wind up tossing the slot regardless.

[SmileyDude1]

steve's 86 and 210 look a bit like forced content to me. plus im getting a somewhat nervous vibe from steve, between 86's "i don't have anything useful to say" followed by the most substantive post of the game at the time

, and the apologies for inactivity which dont really vibe w the gamestate imo (not moving very fast, mostly shitposts, and steve was never really absent)

@MagicalSteve, your response to the latter part of this post has been duly noted, what's your response to the former part (bolded for your convenience)

[SmileyDude1]

ccg scum, not seeing any beyond-surface-level thread interactions

Will say I agree with HoldSteady on this, upon looking at their ISO again there isn't as much there as I originally thought, but I do think what's there feels alright to me. I no longer have them as my top town right now, but I still lean town on the slot

[SmileyDude1]

steve's 86 and 210 look a bit like forced content to me. plus im getting a somewhat nervous vibe from steve, between 86's "i don't have anything useful to say" followed by the most substantive post of the game at the time, and the apologies for inactivity which dont really vibe w the gamestate imo (not moving very fast, mostly shitposts, and steve was never really absent)

steve's 86 and 210 look a bit like forced content to me. plus im getting a somewhat nervous vibe from steve, between 86's "i don't have anything useful to say" followed by the most substantive post of the game at the time

, and the apologies for inactivity which dont really vibe w the gamestate imo (not moving very fast, mostly shitposts, and steve was never really absent)

@MagicalSteve, your response to the latter part of this post has been duly noted, what's your response to the former part (bolded for your convenience)

Ok, given that I haven't gotten an response on this, and we're getting close to deadline, i'll say my piece on this now.

This may well be getting into semantics but I do think part of The Bulge's argument is slightly misleading here, with my main issue being with their take on 86. It's not much, but there is a difference between Steve saying "I don't have much to say" (The Bulge's framing) and Steve saying "I didn't have much to say". The latter potentially indicates that they had formed views to post in between CCGeek's 51 and their 86 in a way that the former doesn't really allow for.

Now with that being said, I don't like how MagicalSteve only elected to address part of The Bulge's case on them. It feels like they tried to minimize their case down to the part they felt like they could defend. It comes off as dodgey to me

VOTE: MagicalSteve

E-2

[SmileyDude1]

I have my doubts about Steve, but I don't think it is a good day 1 lim since they're providing content and post their thoughts

I believe Steve deserves another day

as opposed to SevenEyes

Got to go in a second, but will say that I see your point here. I want to see Steve respond to the entirety of The Bulge's case and i'm hoping that this vote can expedite them doing that. SevenEyes is a slot that's likely to become a bit of a pain later on as it's likely to be pushed by scum if town, but it feels like a LHF elim to me right now which i'm not sure I want to pursue day 1.

[SmileyDude1]

Like, I feel like you could argue that SevenEyes would be the best day 1 lim due to that slot likely being the hardest to sort later, but then I look at their content and get newb town vibes so idk

[SmileyDude1]

Wanted to say i'm here for the time being if you have any inquiries for me though i'm in the same spot of waiting for Steve's response.

[SmileyDude1]

Given that we're less than a day out from deadline I thought it appropriate to post where I'm at in terms of PoE. Id encourage anyone else who hasn't already done so to do the same.

No, Not today

TheHoldSteady
Szmarzleek
iamveryhappy
CCGeek

Would be Willing

The Bulge
Civil Scum
SevenEyes
MagicalSteve

I'm currently at work right now, but I should be available in around 8 hours from now. From there I should be here through deadline

[SmileyDude1]

Also will just say that if at all feasible it'd probably be a good idea for someone to move Steve to E+1 as to maximize our time to react and discuss any potential claim ( we're likely approaching a deadline scramble regardless, though I'd like to try to minimize the intensity of it if at possible)

Anyways will be back later

[SmileyDude1]

thats not a useful vote

Nobody has made a great case for anyone and I don’t like eliminating townies so I like to go with my top pick.

if you have a problem with the magicalsteve case then why havent you said anything about it?

what does your iavh vote accomplish atm? how does it advance the town wincon?

I haven’t had a lot of time so I haven’t read super carefully, can you summarize the case cause I’m my read I didn’t see anything juicy.

I know odds and all that say we should avoid a no-lim but doesn’t that just mean it’s already been decided who is getting limmed.

The case was mostly based on The Bulge's 253, compounded by MagicalSteve electing to only partially respond to the arguments in said post. Though speaking of 253.

steve's 86 and 210 look a bit like forced content to me. plus im getting a somewhat nervous vibe from steve, between 86's "i don't have anything useful to say" followed by the most substantive post of the game at the time, and the apologies for inactivity which dont really vibe w the gamestate imo (not moving very fast, mostly shitposts, and steve was never really absent)

As much as I dislike going after someone for trying to get the ball rolling around here, I have to agree it does come across as a bit forced.

VOTE: MagicalSteve

You apparently found the argument juicy enough to be willing to vote on it earlier, I was wondering what changed for you since then?

[SmileyDude1]

@MagicalSteve

We're officially sub 9 hours until deadline, if you could find some time to post here soonish so we can sort this out, that'd be great

[SmileyDude1]

Oh sorry different people, you find it scummy I moved my vote then or just wondering what happened? I don't remember specifically as I'm having a hard time keeping track of this game, but I'm sure I saw something else that led me to vote for a different person.

And whatever reason I had for moving my vote was probably a bit weak because I think we can all agree that no one is jumping out as very scummy this game.

Yeah you unvoted in your 267 sayng you need to think on it a little.

How do you feel about the MagicalSteve slot right now?

[SmileyDude1]

I'd hope he comes back, though I fear they may either be stalling or has flaked at this point.

Ideally i'd like to hear them respond before we end the day, but we're starting to run out of time here

[SmileyDude1]

anyone not on the wagon pls hammer, i am worried we will hit deadline

+1 on this at this point

[SmileyDude1]

goodnight guys

[SmileyDude1]

I'd say townlean (so you're not accused of wanting to lim a PR) or not mention them at all? Tough to guess.

I didn't suspect happy at all though, did he leave any hints in his posts? It seems like there's a skilled person in scumteam who can read between the lines well. This flip surprised me.

Anyway, I'm irritated with Steve lim and him flipping green. Now I want people who said we'll get precious "content" from that lim to tell us what exactly we're getting from that

I think the Bulge said that? I expect deeper analyses, since according to you this would be such a beneficial lim.

Not The Bulge, but I was kind of a similar camp of being alright with a Steve lim for informational purposes so here's what i've gleamed from the flip.

Leek +town based on general vibes from yesterday as well as being the main resistance to Steve lim day 1

TheHoldSteady slightly + scum, due to eventually winding up on the wagon despite liking the Steve slot earlier in the game. They do show progression towards voting the slot over the course of the day, though it does feel interesting, (To be fair I am guilty of doing this same thing, would probs place myself here if I wasn't working from FMPOV)

The Bulge slightly + scum the argument made on the Steve case is one that's fairly easy for scum to come up with and I do think the way part of the argument was framed was slightly misleading, though I didn't really see anything in Brass/The Bulge's ISO that suggest that they had reason to specifically target Steve and I'm getting Town vibes from some of their posts

CCGeek + Scum. Looking through their ISO they a similarly to TheHoldSteady express an early townread of the slot only to eventually have it in their limpool by EoD in their 396. Unlike TheHoldSteady I didn't really see anything indicating a progression on the slot to reach this point. They didn't comment on the case and they're comments on the Steve slot before 396 didn't really suggest they particularly scumread the slot beforehand. Could potentially be an attempt to pile onto a Town wagon given the flip. Checking through the ISOs this is the progression that made the least sense to me


Civil Scum + scum as looking through their ISo they were pretty flip-floppy in regards to the Steve slot, they support the case in 257 then unvote in 267

they later shade Steve in their EBWOP in 405 only to justify their happy vote a few posts later in 416 saying that nobody made a compelling case for a lim. This topped off with their opinion on the Steve slot in 427 saying they lean scum on the slot despite not feeling that the case on them was compelling. I'm getting conflicting messages from their stance on Steve and it does ping me a bit.

Anyways I got to go for now (this was a home post that turned into a work post)

[SmileyDude1]

ok so i'm sick and have dm'd alianna to replace out
-SNIP-

I hope you feel better soon, and apologies if I overstepped in any way.

[SmileyDude1]

with the green flip we can pretty much guarantee there was at least 1 scum on the wagon, maybe 2. fmpov i think its likely the scum on steve's wagon were also on mine/brassherald's.

Votecount 1.FINAL

MagicalSteve

(ELIMINATED):

iamveryhappy

,

The Bulge

, SmileyDude1, TheHoldSteady, Civil Scum

Votecount 1.06

brassherald

(E-1): KawaiiMikuStan,

MagicalSteve

, Civil Scum, TheHoldSteady

i solidly tr szmarz (kawaii slot) and smiley so will be looking at how viable a cs/holdsteady team is today, but just from the wagon analysis id bet money its at least one of them.

Did a joint ISO of the CS/Holdstady slots, and I think I slightly lean towards unviable. HPE didn't interact with Hold before they replaced so i'm mostly going off of interactions between Civil and Hold. Civil's 201 agrees with Hold's 131 in regards to 113 being perfomative. Civil's 231 asks Hold to expand on their take in 217 which they do in their 240 leading to Civil's response a post later. Up to this point I'd say that the interactions between the two slots fall into the realm of fakeable through good coordination. The interaction afterward throws a wrench into the slots viability as a pair. Hold's 384 criticizes Civil and their predecessor for not advancing the game along saying they feel more favorably towards CCGeek due to them progressing the game. Civil doesn't respond to this despite posting afterwards. This feels like the type of thing where i'd think a Civil/Hold pair would likely have coordinated better than it wound up being. Like i'd expect either a response on the subject from Civil or for Hold to just bite their tongue on the criticism entirely.

I think of the two Civil is more likely to flip red in isolation for reasoning I mentioned earlier, and in an effort to get the game moving again

VOTE: Civil Scum

[SmileyDude1]

not a bad read

but what do we do with SevenEyes

This is a prescient point, think I'm going to try to get more out of them when I'm able to access thread again later.

Ideally I think I'd prefer to get scum today and then potentially look into that slot day 3 with additional breathing room. Though getting it wrong today means that Town has to deal with the slot in ELO which is a tad concerning

Bout to head into work, will try to be back later

[SmileyDude1]

Hello Patchwork, welcome

Leek and THS the comments regarding Seven have been duly noted. In light of the slot getting replaced i'm probs going to perform a Re-ISO on the slot soonish (laziness may befall me though i'll try to get it out relatively quickly). It's the one slot I didn't really look at too much heading into day 2 due to waving it off as not having enough there to build an opinion on it.

[SmileyDude1]

TRs: Smiley, Bulge, CCGeek

I'm more or less TRing them too, who do you think could be the potential plot twist here?

by accident I've seen Smiley's game on this site (I think it was a debut?) as scum and he won it in ELO and was praised for his skill by top players

kinda worried me

Good thing I drew a Green PM this time

Will say that I think a good portion of my success there can be attributed to the track of that game (Newbie 2128) allowing me to "cosplay" as town for a good chunk of it via bussing

[SmileyDude1]

and Seven's approach to happy was kinda inconsistent, especially now we know it was a PR

first she said he's leaning scum in her eyes

then I'd asked who she'd lim, and she didn't mention him

when I reminded her that she scumreads him, she said she'd be okay with limming him after all

kinda dancing around the person they knew they'd nkill?

Will agree upon taking a closer look at Seven's ISO, their stance on Happy feels inconsistent. Definitely something to question the replacement about when they arrive

Dead ass game

Yeah it's tough due to most of the people of interest in the game right now being absent (Seven replace, Civil potentially heading towards the same fate). The fresh perspectives incoming should give new takes to chew on though

[SmileyDude1]

Town

SzmarzLeek
The Bulge
TheHoldSteady
Patchwork/CCGeek
SevenEyes
Civil Scum

Scum

Updated my reads

[SmileyDude1]

good evening ladies and gentlemen

could someone give me a rundown to help me catch up faster, that would be wonderful

Significant Events (there's a good chance i'll have missed something worthy of mentioning. Anyone feel free to add on to this list)


-Early interactions between IAVH and MagicalSteve, with the former suspecting the latter for rolefishing due to their 12, which Steve responds to in their 86

-Early suspicion launched towards me due to what was seen as a weird self-vote followed by weird self-criticism which I respond toshortly after

-BrassHerald getting put to E-1 midway during day 1 before The Bulge replaces them


-The Bulge's 253 casing MagicalSteve, who responds only partially in the subsequent posts afterwards leading to the day 1 elim, flips Green

-Happy flips Doctor after being nightkilled. With their early game softing being the general consensus upon the reasoning

The slots under the most suspicion right now are your slot (For being generally low content and having a weird progression towards the Happy slot that looks bad given the slot flipped PR), and the Civil Scum slot (For having inconsistent viewpoints on the MagicalSteve slot during the EoD)

-

[SmileyDude1]

good evening ladies and gentlemen

could someone give me a rundown to help me catch up faster, that would be wonderful

Significant Events (there's a good chance i'll have missed something worthy of mentioning. Anyone feel free to add on to this list)

-Early interactions between IAVH and MagicalSteve, with the former suspecting the latter for rolefishing due to their 12, which Steve responds to in their 86

-Early suspicion launched towards me due to what was seen as a weird self-vote followed by weird self-criticism which I respond toshortly after

-BrassHerald getting put to E-1 midway during day 1 before The Bulge replaces them

-The Bulge's 253 casing MagicalSteve, who responds only partially in the subsequent posts afterwards leading to the day 1 elim, flips Green

-Happy flips Doctor after being nightkilled. With their early game softing being the general consensus upon the reasoning

The slots under the most suspicion right now are your slot (For being generally low content and having a weird progression towards the Happy slot that looks bad given the slot flipped PR), and the Civil Scum slot (For having inconsistent viewpoints on the MagicalSteve slot during the EoD)

-

What do you think about what I said in 481 and 490 about a CS and SevenEyes team not being viable

Leek +town based on general vibes from yesterday as well as

being the main resistance to Steve lim day 1

I really don't know if being the main resistance to Steve lim day 1 is as town as you're making it out to be

Its convenient that he wanted to lim two nothingness slots where there wouldn't have been any information

I would've done the same thing as scum

I think the reason I like Leek is more so based on the vibes part of the reason than the resistance part of the reason. I feel like they've come off as consistently inquisitive and seem to be aimed at progressing the game and trying to solve. The resistance to the Steve lim is a relatively small part of the calculation for me (after all I aimed for an similar trajectory in Newbie 2128, where I came out in defense of MikhailTal after they had been driven to E-1 as scum. It's a slight + in my book that Leek did do that, though I know it's something that's easy to fake). I just feel that Leek's play feels towny to me, (may do a re-ISO on the slot at some point though, just to see if there may be ulterior motives i'm not noticing).

[SmileyDude1]

In terms of the viability of the CS/Seven pair, I think the posts you mention do knock it down a peg, though I don't think i'd rule it out. Civil did seem to notice (and take issue with) Happy's softs upon entrance and going by the join date and post count they seem experienced enough to catch out that Happy was PR and direct the shot there. I could see that pairing getting to a Happy kill despite being lost on what's going on during EoD

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being Definitely paired and 1 Being Definitely unpaired, i'd probably place it at 3.8. It's trending towards not working for me, but I could still see it

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-

Smileys 142- agreeing with kms that brassherald is ‘lurky’ and ‘light on non RVS content’ is not accurate (they were on VLA and still posted more content than some players here), and

odd when you look at all the players who fit that description better than brassherald

169, 170- smiley is posting just like they were as scum in Night of a Thousand Falseclaims. But I’ve never played with them as town- maybe they have a very good identical game?

Dont love that smiley has switched vote to an inactive and that they are his only scumread

-SNIP-

Will say that I wasn't aware that Brass was on VLA at the time of making 142. I find the highlighted part odd to criticize given that I literally make this same point within the post you mentioned. May need to check again when I have time, but I think at the time I made 142, Brass was in the lower section of posters in terms of content (I remember a lot of there early stuff being jokes in RVS), I wouldn't say it "wasn't accurate" to call the slot light on content at the time. though there were other players who fit that bill better (which I pointed out).

[SmileyDude1]

so who's scumreading me, and why

and Seven's approach to happy was kinda inconsistent, especially now we know it was a PR

first she said he's leaning scum in her eyes

then I'd asked who she'd lim, and she didn't mention him

when I reminded her that she scumreads him, she said she'd be okay with limming him after all

kinda dancing around the person they knew they'd nkill?

This is essentially what's drawing eyes towards your slot right now, along with your predecessor being low content

Relevant Posts:

im a little bit late but just read through everyone's posts (is that called iso? im new to mafiascum terminology). ill post my reads in a minute and hopefully try and make up for the lack of posts ive made this game.

apologiese for the shoddy formatting lol i dont know how to make text bold

ccgeek: ccg is giving me good vibes so far. i feel like he's actively trying to move the game forward, while also not making every single post super serious and/or accusatory, which is good. generally townlean imo

civil scum: i feel like he hasn't offered much substantial info that can be used to progress the game, but to be fair it is day 1. generally town ish ... but im kind of on the fence.

iamveryhappy: there was quite a lot of discourse about his first post, and tbh i think that might have just been a joke that landed kind of poorly. i feel like he hasn't offered many mafia-relevant posts or tried to progress the game at all, and some of his posts are a bit questionable (like all the stuff about soft claiming). his kind of playstyle is kind of confusing to me because everything is just sort of unclear with him. maybe a slight scum lean?

magical steve: his posts are mostly mafia-related and he's been proactive in voting and making reads on people. how good those reads are or how scummy those posts are though... not sure. immediately targeting iavh's post 1 as a cop claim was kind of weird. i agree with leek saying that steve overreacted a bit to some of the earlier posts that could have just been unserious or suggestions. i'm sitting on the fence.

smileydude: i might have said this before but his self vote was a bit suspicious when it happened. maybe a strange attempt at humour, maybe inherently scummy behaviour... looking back on it i don't know if it was really as weird as i thought it was. null/slight townlean imo

leek: i'm kind of ashamed of myself actually, because leek immediately jumped in and contributed more than i have this entire game, lmao. he's offered some good points that i generally agree with. all of his posts have been mafia-relevant, which is good to see. townread, imo.

the bulge: i'm not getting good vibes from the bulge. their posts are incredibly short and snippy, and the "yuck" post in particular was a weird way to respond to a post about just voting, let alone any post. scumlean, imo. (by the way, ive had to refer to you with they/them in this post, but what are your pronouns?)

theholdsteady: not a whole lot of content his posts either offer relevant opinions/reads on posts or are helpful generally. i'm getting good/neutral vibes. don't really have a whole lot to say abt him, probably townlean atp.

okay SevenEyes, who would be your second choice if e.g. there is a claim or they Bulge defends themselves well? it's wise to have a second candidate for a lim in forum mafia

magicalsteve or smileydude i think.

okay SevenEyes, who would be your second choice if e.g. there is a claim or they Bulge defends themselves well? it's wise to have a second candidate for a lim in forum mafia

magicalsteve or smileydude i think.

not happy? you have a slight scumlean there

i put slight scumlean for happy because most of his posts were unclear/not that relevant/general tomfoolery which can be a bit scummy in itself, since he's not contributing much game-relevant info. i put down smiley as a second choice candidate to lim while looking at my own post on my reads, and recalled that his earlier stuff was mayhaps slightly scummy/generally odd, which is why i put him down. his later posts however are more contributory, definitely more so than happy, and now that i think about it harder, happy might be a better candidate for a lim rather than smiley, since it would be better to keep somebody who has more relevant input in the game rather than someone who doesn't.

Has Happy as a scum lean in their read list, When asked for who they'd be willing to lim, puts myself and MagicalSteve as second choices after The Bulge over Happy despite having us in "null/slight townlean" and "on the fence" respectively. When Leek points this out, Seven states that they think it'd be better to lim Happy over me after all.

What's your opinion on this progression

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-

Smileys 142- agreeing with kms that brassherald is ‘lurky’ and ‘light on non RVS content’ is not accurate (they were on VLA and still posted more content than some players here), and

odd when you look at all the players who fit that description better than brassherald

169, 170- smiley is posting just like they were as scum in Night of a Thousand Falseclaims. But I’ve never played with them as town- maybe they have a very good identical game?

Dont love that smiley has switched vote to an inactive and that they are his only scumread

-SNIP-

Will say that I wasn't aware that Brass was on VLA at the time of making 142. I find the highlighted part odd to criticize given that I literally make this same point within the post you mentioned. May need to check again when I have time, but I think at the time I made 142, Brass was in the lower section of posters in terms of content (I remember a lot of there early stuff being jokes in RVS), I wouldn't say it "wasn't accurate" to call the slot light on content at the time. though there were other players who fit that bill better (which I pointed out).

So you have time for this post and the one after but not for a readslist

Posted my reads recently, a page ago, in 488, so this comment comes off as a tad dishonest.

Currently at work right now, but will be back later if there's anything you want me to elaborate on

[SmileyDude1]

I missed it, my bad (though it's not post 488 either). It comes off as "dishonest" that I missed it? As in, scum me thought I could trick folks into thinking you haven't posted one... Or something?

On break so I have a bit of time, it's less that and more potential scum you may have tried pushing me for not providing reads without checking to see if I did so first

[SmileyDude1]

Would say I'm most interested in humaneatingmonkey (SevenEyes) being that high, was wondering if you could expand on that.

Your points relating to the Bulge have been noted. Will likely take another look at EoD 1 when I get back to see if I see what you're seeing.

My break is about to end in a second, but I should be back in a few hours

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-

TheHoldSteady slightly + scum, due to eventually winding up on the wagon despite liking the Steve slot earlier in the game. They do show progression towards voting the slot over the course of the day, though it does feel interesting, (To be fair I am guilty of doing this same thing, would probs place myself here if I wasn't working from FMPOV)

This was a really strange thing to say. “I’m marking you down for doing the same thing I’m doing, even though I’m town and did the exact same thing” ???

Smiley hardly even mention Leek day 1 but then emerged in 337 with a post that said “not limming him today” and then followed by a solid townread in 454 for kind of weak reasons and even putting him on top of his townreads in 494. Reasoning for the townread in 510 is slightly better but I still don’t agree with it, Leek has mostly popped up just to complain about inactivity and then leave again

-SNIP-

I think the reason I slotted Leek where I did in my 337, can be partially attributed to me liking that they came in and immediately engaged the game. Posts like 285, 286, and 291 are what i'm talking about when I say that Leek is progressing the game and asking questions with intent to solve and this feels pretty consistent when looking at their ISO. This is my bad for not making my reasoning clear earlier since that was a drastic shift from how I viewed their predecessor, but I noted these things from the moment they entered and it makes me like them for town.

I did mention earlier that I'd take another look at Leek's ISO to check for ulterior motives, and upon doing so will note that I didn't find much in that regard. The most questionable thing I can find in there is them agreeing with the case on Steve early only to not want to go there due to their view that the Steve slot would contribute more in future day phases. Could in theory be scum nudging a case and then finding a reason to stand against for cred after it flips, but it just as easily could be their natural thought process. That feels NAI to me

[SmileyDude1]

THS does bring up an interesting point though,

-SNIP-

bulge seemed very stubborn and adamant to lim Steve - that's towny, but I don't like how Bulge looks narrowly at the game, most of their (can you setup pronouns, Bulge?) iso concerns Steve, needs very close observation

Anyway, I'm irritated with Steve lim and him flipping green. Now I want people who said we'll get precious "content" from that lim to tell us what exactly we're getting from that

I think the Bulge said that? I expect deeper analyses, since according to you this would be such a beneficial lim.

the Bulge showed great stubbornness in limming Steve and that's towny

Here’s a 180 on the Bulge, from “its not deep enough its scum” immediately to “its stubborn, its townie”
-SNIP-

Leek, can you explain your read progression on The Bulge?

[SmileyDude1]

While i'm asking for responses on progressions

-SNIP-
CCGeek + Scum. Looking through their ISO they a similarly to TheHoldSteady express an early townread of the slot only to eventually have it in their limpool by EoD in their 396. Unlike TheHoldSteady I didn't really see anything indicating a progression on the slot to reach this point. They didn't comment on the case and they're comments on the Steve slot before 396 didn't really suggest they particularly scumread the slot beforehand. Could potentially be an attempt to pile onto a Town wagon given the flip. Checking through the ISOs this is the progression that made the least sense to me

Civil Scum + scum as looking through their ISo they were pretty flip-floppy in regards to the Steve slot, they support the case in 257 then unvote in 267
they later shade Steve in their EBWOP in 405 only to justify their happy vote a few posts later in 416 saying that nobody made a compelling case for a lim. This topped off with their opinion on the Steve slot in 427 saying they lean scum on the slot despite not feeling that the case on them was compelling. I'm getting conflicting messages from their stance on Steve and it does ping me a bit.
-SNIP-

Patchwork & Merlyn, Wanted to see your response to the above

[SmileyDude1]

1.FINAL

Votecount 1.FINAL

MagicalSteve (ELIMINATED): iamveryhappy, The Bulge, SmileyDude1, TheHoldSteady, Civil Scum
SmileyDude1 (1): CCGeek
Civil Scum (1): SzmarzLeek

Not Voting (2): SevenEyes, MagicalSteve

With 9 players alive, it took 5 votes to secure an elimination.

So we eliminated town yesterday with this motley crew of four beautiful people (happy flipped town), and we're shopping for answers outside of it?

Will say that I think reducing the search to those on-wagon in this case would be fallacious. Of those off-wagon, CCGeek had the slot in it's limpool in their 396, and SevenEyes declared a concurrent intent to hammer in their 435. The only people not in support of the eventual lim were SzmarzLeek and MagicalSteve themself.

[SmileyDude1]

and how would you read Civil Scum, Merlyn? rather towny ISO?

It's not as bad a some folks are making it out to be. If this wasn't the slot I'd repped into I'd have specific questions about one scummish thing CS did but really, it would be null leaning town for me due to him not knowing someone was at e-1.

Can you elaborate further on this viewpoint? What's the "scummish" action you saw when looking at CS's ISO

[SmileyDude1]

While i'm asking for responses on progressions

-SNIP-
CCGeek + Scum. Looking through their ISO they a similarly to TheHoldSteady express an early townread of the slot only to eventually have it in their limpool by EoD in their 396. Unlike TheHoldSteady I didn't really see anything indicating a progression on the slot to reach this point. They didn't comment on the case and they're comments on the Steve slot before 396 didn't really suggest they particularly scumread the slot beforehand. Could potentially be an attempt to pile onto a Town wagon given the flip. Checking through the ISOs this is the progression that made the least sense to me

Civil Scum + scum as looking through their ISo they were pretty flip-floppy in regards to the Steve slot, they support the case in 257 then unvote in 267
they later shade Steve in their EBWOP in 405 only to justify their happy vote a few posts later in 416 saying that nobody made a compelling case for a lim. This topped off with their opinion on the Steve slot in 427 saying they lean scum on the slot despite not feeling that the case on them was compelling. I'm getting conflicting messages from their stance on Steve and it does ping me a bit.
-SNIP-

Patchwork & Merlyn, Wanted to see your response to the above

Reupping this

[SmileyDude1]

Will say that after thinking on it a while, I think I'm in agreement with Patchwork and Leek about not liking HEM's entrance. My issue is more so with their initial approach upon entering the game.


I agree with Patch's 584, and I think HEM's entrance leaned too much towards defending their predecessor for my liking. I realized that I asked them directly about the case on them in my 518, but I think i'd like to generally see more of a mix of sorting/solving the game with addressing concerns towards ones own slot than what actually occurred here. I think that the answers they gave in terms of addressing concerns feel decent enough, but I feel like there was too much focus on that angle and not enough in terms of solving others (I think the most I got in this regard was that they like The Bulge for town). I think i'm starting to lean towards wanting to vote this slot, but I'd want to see the results of HEM's 567 before making a decision on that.

[SmileyDude1]

thanks Merlyn, I read it and I'll respond

"419 and and [post]425 make it clear that he is considering my slot a potential scum partner of Steve if Steve flips read"


I don't see this as partnership-based accusations? More like pointing out the CS's inconsistency when CS said Steve did something forced and then voted him but then claimed there wasn't a compelling case and Steve is town. I think judging be these posts, this was the main accusation, not Steve-partner scenario related. That's what I read from this.

That's what I was driving at yes

[SmileyDude1]

"highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek"

yeah this caught my eye too back then, almost everyone got scum points for Steve's lim but at least there was a differentiation there, some got less some got more scum points

When making that original list I was thinking more so from the perspective of "If I was a neutral observer of that day 1 how would I feel about the players post flip". I think in reality as a player in this game, i'd probably say that the progressions myself and TheHoldSteady made seemed genuine and non-malicious. Though if I were reading the game and not participating in it i'd likely find it notable that both of the aforementioned slots progressed from liking the Steve slot to agreeing to eliminate it. These are two slots that in retrospect probably would've been better marked as neutral, though I had felt that it may have came off as disingenuous of me to do that at the time

[SmileyDude1]

"highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek"

yeah this caught my eye too back then, almost everyone got scum points for Steve's lim but at least there was a differentiation there, some got less some got more scum points

When making that original list I was thinking more so from the perspective of "If I was a neutral observer of that day 1 how would I feel about the players post flip". I think in reality as a player in this game, i'd probably say that the progressions myself and TheHoldSteady made seemed genuine and non-malicious. Though if I were reading the game and not participating in it i'd likely find it notable that both of the aforementioned slots progressed from liking the Steve slot to agreeing to eliminate it. These are two slots that in retrospect probably would've been better marked as neutral, though I had felt that it may have came off as disingenuous of me to do that at the time

This kind of overthinking is not a towny trait

In hindsight, I think put a bit too much focus on what I felt was "fair" over how I actually felt in some instances. That's my bad and is a good lesson for future games.

[SmileyDude1]

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

[SmileyDude1]

Will admit that I let myself overthink a portion of my reads to start the day, but that's what these games are for after all. Find your strengths, identify and find points to improve on and improve as a Mafia player all while playing to wincon along the way.

[SmileyDude1]

Feel like this is owed at this point given the ruckus I just caused. Here's a readlist that accurately describes how i'm feeling right now and why

Town

SzmarzLeek- As mentioned earlier from my view they've maintained a towny mindset and have been one of the main engines progressing the game along at times. I feel that some of their stances could potentially feel weird (604, but I don't think it overrides the towny vibes i'm feeling

TheHoldSteady- Largely for the same reasons as Leek, they're constantly asking questions, making observations and attempting to solve. I think both of the people in this section have generally produced what I felt to be a town mindset up to this point

Null

The Bulge- Admittedly starting to sour on this slot. I liked how The Bulge approached the game upon their replace in Day 1, a similar to Leek I generally felt that they were doing good sorting and progressing the game well. Merlyn's interaction with them brought up some problematic actions that I admittedly missed earlier. I generally feel that The Bulge responded adequately to Merlyn's questioning, but I have some doubts here. Also getting slightly pinged by the HEM entrance earlier. Between HEM's 545, and posts like The Bulge's 561 and 577 I'm getting "buddying" vibes.

Patchwork- Mostly for reasons mentioned earlier. In response to 652, I do think it's useful to try to hold replacements to the actions of their predecessors, otherwise you potentially let those who replace into scum slots get away for previous scum behavior. Merlyn's post slightly after has been noted. I do think I can see what they were talking about though it's not all that clear of a progression towards being good to eliminate the slot. I do think that in light of CCGeek being sick, it's enough for me to let it slide for the time being though. Disregarding that, CCGeek was falling towards null for me earlier due to a slowing of content from the early game (understandable given the circumstances, but still), and I haven't seen too much out of Patchwork yet so here feels good for now

Merlyn- Still think that their predecessor's progression feels odd in a way that might have been scum-indicative, but I've liked Merlyn upon replace in. I like the angles their shooting at, giving new perspectives that I had overlooked before. I liked their initial readlist, if for no other reason then the fact that it was non-consensus. They're not trying to satiate others here, and when asked about their takes I felt they've generally been able to back it up.

Scum side of Null

humaneatingmonkey- As mentioned earlier, not the biggest fan of the way they entered this game as I feel it leaned too much towards defending their slot and not enough on sorting. Would be interested to see their reads upon coming back

[SmileyDude1]

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

maybe you fucked up and you're now raising this question to make yourself look better. wifom really isn't anything someone should be spending their time on unless it's NKA or something. just use occam's razor lol
which states that smiley is probably scum because trying to make your readlists look different than your actual thought processes (in this case, trying to make your lists seem more towny)

Will admit that I let myself overthink a portion of my reads to start the day, but that's what these games are for after all. Find your strengths, identify and find points to improve on and improve as a Mafia player all while playing to wincon along the way.

u seem like you're sure doing a LOT of posting after merlyn called that out
the borderline anxiety is an ehh for me

In all actuality, I gain no benefit acknowledging my overthinking the way I did if i'm scum. It's not like it was a slip, it was a full blown post acknowledging my error in thinking.

If i'm scum here all I did was make people more suspicious of me and cause people to doubt the veracity of my posts throughout the game. I would've been doing this from a position where most of the playerlist had me as town before making that post, and for what benefit?

[SmileyDude1]

Feel like this is owed at this point given the ruckus I just caused. Here's a readlist that accurately describes how i'm feeling right now and why

Town

SzmarzLeek- As mentioned earlier from my view they've maintained a towny mindset and have been one of the main engines progressing the game along at times. I feel that some of their stances could potentially feel weird (604, but I don't think it overrides the towny vibes i'm feeling

TheHoldSteady- Largely for the same reasons as Leek, they're constantly asking questions, making observations and attempting to solve. I think both of the people in this section have generally produced what I felt to be a town mindset up to this point

Null

The Bulge- Admittedly starting to sour on this slot. I liked how The Bulge approached the game upon their replace in Day 1, a similar to Leek I generally felt that they were doing good sorting and progressing the game well. Merlyn's interaction with them brought up some problematic actions that I admittedly missed earlier. I generally feel that The Bulge responded adequately to Merlyn's questioning, but I have some doubts here. Also getting slightly pinged by the HEM entrance earlier. Between HEM's 545, and posts like The Bulge's 561 and 577 I'm getting "buddying" vibes.

Patchwork- Mostly for reasons mentioned earlier. In response to 652, I do think it's useful to try to hold replacements to the actions of their predecessors, otherwise you potentially let those who replace into scum slots get away for previous scum behavior. Merlyn's post slightly after has been noted. I do think I can see what they were talking about though it's not all that clear of a progression towards being good to eliminate the slot. I do think that in light of CCGeek being sick, it's enough for me to let it slide for the time being though. Disregarding that, CCGeek was falling towards null for me earlier due to a slowing of content from the early game (understandable given the circumstances, but still), and I haven't seen too much out of Patchwork yet so here feels good for now

Merlyn- Still think that their predecessor's progression feels odd in a way that might have been scum-indicative, but I've liked Merlyn upon replace in. I like the angles their shooting at, giving new perspectives that I had overlooked before. I liked their initial readlist, if for no other reason then the fact that it was non-consensus. They're not trying to satiate others here, and when asked about their takes I felt they've generally been able to back it up.

Scum side of Null

humaneatingmonkey- As mentioned earlier, not the biggest fan of the way they entered this game as I feel it leaned too much towards defending their slot and not enough on sorting. Would be interested to see their reads upon coming back

Also in accordance with this: UNVOTE: Merlyn

Logging off for now

[SmileyDude1]

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

how would you answer "hey, your list where you give almost everyone some scum points for Steve's lim is a bit weird" accusation if you played as a scum here?

Likely with some spiel about relativity (Something like, "I think it's fair to doc points from everyone a slight bit, given the near consensus on the day 1 flip though there is some nuance to my list. I docced more points from those who I felt may have jumped on opportunistically over genuine reasoning).

The above would likely have played better for a hypothetical Scum!Me then what my actual answer was.

[SmileyDude1]

Probs one of Patchwork or Merlyn. A good chunk of my concern about The Bulge is their relation towards monkey, so if monkey comes in with a believable claim i'd probably feel better about that slot. I think I overall feel better about CCGeek's (Patchwork slot) progression on Steve day 1 than I do about Civil Scum's (Merlyn Slot), but I've liked Merlyn better than Patchwork since they've entered the game (that may change upon seeing Patchwork's catch-up, but we'll see).

[SmileyDude1]

Given we're closing in on EoD as you said, I think I'm moving here right now.

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

E-1

[SmileyDude1]

There will have been 3 different slots that have been represented by 3 different players after Patchwork is replaced

This has certainly been a game.

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-

Null

The Bulge- Admittedly starting to sour on this slot. I liked how The Bulge approached the game upon their replace in Day 1, a similar to Leek I generally felt that they were doing good sorting and progressing the game well. Merlyn's interaction with them brought up some problematic actions that I admittedly missed earlier. I generally feel that The Bulge responded adequately to Merlyn's questioning, but I have some doubts here. Also getting slightly pinged by the HEM entrance earlier. Between HEM's 545, and posts like The Bulge's 561 and 577 I'm getting "buddying" vibes.

-SNIP-

Elaborating on this. I'm starting to like HEM/The Bulge as a solve. The above mentioned interactions feel kind of buddy-like to me, and this pair would explain The Bulge standing against eliminating SevenEyes day 1. Diving into more tinfoil-y territory, it might also partially explain why the slot was more absent after the beginning of day 2 as SevenEyes had stopped posting at the time with them becoming more active upon HEM replacing in (To clarify, this is just as easily explained with the slot being busy with IRL stuff, i'm not accusing The Bulge of lying about being busy, though I know from firsthand experience that IRL events can work to your advantage at times as scum, see my post 27 in this thread for what I mean viewtopic.php?f=90&t=91282).

Would be interested to hear others thoughts on this theory.

[SmileyDude1]

"might also partially explain why the slot was more absent after the beginning of day 2 as SevenEyes had stopped posting at the time with them becoming more active upon HEM replacing in"

what do you mean here? who's more absent?

can't quite understand the text

Bulge stops the activity when the potential partner (hem slot) stops it too, and starts to be more active when the partner is more active too?

why would that be related

morale?

if my partner wasn't active I'd keep going with my own thing

Was talking about the Bulge, with the idea being that scum!them maybe wanted to avoid committing towards anything before their partner was present to bounce off of. I'm not sure how much value that holds though since I don't know their playstyle hence why I said that gets into tinfoil territory. For me their posts after 559 (when they came back during the you/HEM back and forth) feel kind of off. The timing of said posts along with the track they took during it kind of strikes as potential "convenient timing" for me

[SmileyDude1]

Smiley, some questions for you on your Seven/HEM reads progression. I'm using red and green to show where you were in feeling positively or negatively towrds the slot:

• Smiley thinks seven pushing his self vote is sus, votes them (Seven red)
  Smiley says seven has the least substantial content and asks for more (SEVEN red)
  Smily lists them as a slight scum lean (note: thats the scummiest he goes on the readslist, no one below that) (SEVEN red)
  Smiley agrees with CS that seven is probably newb town and unvotes (SEVEN green)
  Smiley says that “SevenEyes is a slot that's likely to become a bit of a pain later on as it's likely to be pushed by scum if town” but doesnt want to pursue D1 (SEVEN ?)
  Followgreen “Like, I feel like you could argue that SevenEyes would be the best day 1 lim due to that slot likely being the hardest to sort later, but then I look at their content and get newb town vibes so idk” (SEVEN green)
  Lists Seven in the would be willing to lim slot (2nd choice behind Steve) (SEVEN red)
  
  what happened here to change your thoughts?
  
  “Ideally I think I'd prefer to get scum today and then potentially look into that slot day 3 with additional breathing room. Though getting it wrong today means that Town has to deal with the slot in ELO which is a tad concerning” (SEVEN ?)
  
  why does the slot have to be dealt with in ELO and not D2 if town got limmed D1?
  
  Says the with the slot getting replaced he will ISO because he’s never really looked into it and he hasn’t built an opinion on it (SEVEN ?)
  greendated reads list has Seven second from lowest (SEVEN red)
  
  did you do the ISO?
  
  Asks HEM to explain why Seven was willing to vote for Smiley and Steve after saying they were ‘null/slight townlean’ and ‘on the fence’, then changed to IVAH after Leek questioned why not IVAH when IVAH was lower in the readslist (SEVEN red)
  Wants to know why I have HEM in my townvibes list (SEVEN red)

Shift on 229

: The former three points were before I had gotten a handle on the slot's experience level. In between my readlist and 229, Seven posted 197 and 198 from which I gleamed that they were new and gave them the benefit of the doubt (my reasoning in 170 for suspecting that slot would have been more valid had they been experienced.

340, 341, and 395

: At this point I had been leaning on Seven town based on the vibes of their posting, was mostly ok with a lim there due to my thought that they'd be the hardest to sort later. Weren't necessarily my preference (heck I had doubts with everyone within my 395 limpool), but something i'd be willing to compromise on due to my view that it improved the gamestate.

471

: At the time my preference was to lim elsewhere as I wasn't scumreading Seven at this point. I was saying that if we don't lim Seven and the flip was green, the slot would likely be taken into ELO (it was a slot that's potentially vulnerable to manipulation by scum as well as being vulnerable to push by scum, while also having the potential to be newb!Scum itself)

487

: When I say "didn't look too much into" I mean in light of MagicalSteve flippling Green. They were the only person in my 454 that I didn't comment on in reference to the flip. I do mention looking at their ISO in my 493 though I don't think I ever took another look at it in reference to a Steve flip (If I had I'd probably put them in the same category as myself and Hold of having noted progressions on the slot). At this point I had shifted towards not liking the slot due to agreeing with Leek's 469 and 473 as I noted in my 493

[SmileyDude1]

Ok, so I went through every possible pair in the game and rated them based off of the following Scale:
1- Don’t see myself reaching this solve
2-Feasible, lacks concrete links but also lacks disqualifying content
3- Clear links identified, pair to watch out for
4-Would be surprised if this isn’t the solve

Note: This was composed shortly after I saw the day 2 flip (About 2 hours after the hammer occurred)

HEM/Hold- 2, Hold originally follows Leek onto HEM in their 477 then proceeds to hop off in 736 after Patch replaces out giving more time. Then proceeds to elect to shift the vote towards Merlyn for the hammer. Leaning towards no on this due to the fact that they proactively encouraged me to commit to a wagon slightly before Merlyn declared intent in their 729 (I had broadcasted my preference to lim HEM over Merlyn at this point, and it feels risky to do what Hold did due to the likelihood I'd leave his hypothetical partner in this case at E-1 should I vote here), lower side of 2 due to the potential that Hold’s pivot towards the Merlyn slot had ulterior motive behind it (the progression seems reasonable enough on the surface, though I'm sure Hold could craft reasons to pivot towards Merlyn if the ends were to suit him).

HEM/Flowr- 3, The predecessors for these slots didn’t really interact all that much day 1 so mostly going off of day 2 interactions here. The most significant content from the CCGeek/Patchwork/Flowr slot would be CCGeek’s last post 463 (doesn’t mention Seven at all) and Flowr’s entrance where they vote for Merlyn. This pings for multiple reasons including not understanding the votes on HEM in 751 (despite apparently having read enough to determine that they scumread Merlyn and myself, I feel like the reasonings put up for voting monkey were clear and numerous enough that it should’ve been caught within their skim), and not expanding on the cases for myself and Merlyn despite posting multiple times afterwards (their initial response to Merlyn’s request to state their case on them in 756 comes off poorly due to it lacking the proactivity I'd expect to see from a townie. Like if you have a scumread upon replacing into a game i’d expect town to proactively state their reasoning when they have time rather than tell someone they scumread to come back and ask them again later when they’re not preoccupied. Also will say that the point in the previous sentence kind of makes the bold side of me want to quicklim Flowr, though the logical part of me knows that would be ill-advised). Feels like they jumped on the Merlyn wagon with the intention of pushing it over the top, with HEM being the main beneficiary of such action as the second biggest wagon

Hold/Flowr- 2, Hold established an early townread on the CCGeek slot which endured until Flowr’s vote on Merlyn late day 2. Interestingly they both wound up on the Merlyn wagon despite Hold not liking that Flowr moved the wagon to E-1 during their entrance (makes me wonder if Hold was being performative with that comment in order to distance?). Not really much in terms of notable interactions outside of what was just mentioned.


Leek/HEM- 1, On the grounds that Leek advocated policying the Seven slot dating back to their replace in day 1. Would be the ultimate bus job on Leek’s part if this was the case, don’t think i’d ever see myself calling it (and if I did it’d probs only be for gamestate reasons)

Leek/Hold- 2, I don’t really see anything that directly supports this pairing, though I also don’t see anything that precludes this pair existing (except for the fact that I don’t want it to. Watch this be the team and I was being pocketed this whole time )

Leek/Flowr- 2, The only indicative thing I could find here was Leek holding a consistent TR towards the CCGeek/Patchwork/Flowr slot, A generic 2 for me, not much that supports this solve, but not seeing anything that precludes it either.

[SmileyDude1]

Note: The above does not take into account the night kill, of which I need to think about the ramifications of.

Immediately, the fact that the scum team hit 2/2 in terms of PR night kills points to an experienced scum team (i'd need to check later, but I don't think The Bulge gave off PR vibes either so at least one of those shots were like non-obvious)

Also realizing in hindsight we prob should've hypoclaimed after the doctor flipped night 1. That we didn't, is going to complicate things dearly

[SmileyDude1]

Was not expecting to see The Bulge slot flip night 2 (thought it was going to be a Leek kill if I had to guess). Going to need some time to think if there are any ramifications on such a kill (beyond PR hunting).

I think we're all aware of the situation that we find ourselves in at this point, but just in case.

We are in ELO. One incorrect vote ends the game as it allows scum an opportunity to quick hammer. As such, do not commit a vote unless you are ready to bet the game on that vote being correct.

[SmileyDude1]

Note: The above does not take into account the night kill, of which I need to think about the ramifications of.

Immediately, the fact that the scum team hit 2/2 in terms of PR night kills points to an experienced scum team (i'd need to check later, but I don't think The Bulge gave off PR vibes either so at least one of those shots were like non-obvious)

Also realizing in hindsight we prob should've hypoclaimed after the doctor flipped night 1. That we didn't, is going to complicate things dearly

When I say the above, i'm referring to 799. Didn't realize that I caught a new page there.

Logging off for now

[SmileyDude1]

okay, you said you prepared it earlier

did you cut Bulge's pairings then?

Yes I did. I think I still have the blurbs lying around somewhere if those would be useful.

[SmileyDude1]

Immediately, the fact that the scum team hit 2/2 in terms of PR night kills points to an experienced scum team (i'd need to check later, but I don't think The Bulge gave off PR vibes either so at least one of those shots were like non-obvious)

bad vibes

Elaborate? Think that's a reasonable observation to make given the events of this game so far

Was not expecting to see The Bulge slot flip night 2 (thought it was going to be a Leek kill if I had to guess). Going to need some time to think if there are any ramifications on such a kill (beyond PR hunting).

really bad vibes

Elaborate again? I thought Leek would eat the NK due to being a consensus townread. What's off about that?

[SmileyDude1]

between Smiley and THS, i'd rather vote Smiley because i think the prepped post is probably a scumtell

Probs doesn't help much given that this is self-meta, but i'll normally feel more inclined to prepare posts beforehand, if I feel that it'd be useful and potentially important to the gamestate. It's more of an effort thing, than an alignment thing.

[SmileyDude1]

Was not expecting to see The Bulge slot flip night 2 (thought it was going to be a Leek kill if I had to guess). Going to need some time to think if there are any ramifications on such a kill (beyond PR hunting).

I think we're all aware of the situation that we find ourselves in at this point, but just in case.

We are in ELO. One incorrect vote ends the game as it allows scum an opportunity to quick hammer. As such, do not commit a vote unless you are ready to bet the game on that vote being correct.

Coming back to this, the composition of this final 5 is interesting to me. It means if the solve is not exactly HEM/Flowr then I'm wrong on at least one of Leek/Hold. Will probs take another look at those two slots again when I have time after I get back from work (typing these up as i'm getting ready), though my initial thought is that it'd more likely be Hold out of the aforementioned pair due to my memory of their generally being more actions that could've been scum motivated from Hold than Leek.

I'm wondering if this game is straightforward enough for their to not be deepscum present. FMPOV an HEM/Flowr solve feels like the most straightforward solve (To the point where im getting slight pings from it being "too easy"). Though if you're looking at it from the POV of others, depending on one's perspective they may also be considering me which feels like it sufficient complicates things for a hypothetical HEM/Flowr pairing.

I've got to go for now. When I get back i'll probs take another scan of the game and see what additional questions arise

[SmileyDude1]

Smiley did you do the same partner thing for Bulge / Drew last night and just cut them out of your post or what.

he said he did

okay, you said you prepared it earlier

did you cut Bulge's pairings then?

Yes I did. I think I still have the blurbs lying around somewhere if those would be useful.

Yeah I thought it proper to cut out pairings featuring The Bulge/ Doctor Drew due to any solves involving those slots being rendered impossible due to their flip. Though for the sake of transparency, I'll post the thoughts I deleted.


Doctor Drew/Flowr- 2, The Bulge notably places an at the time non-consensus scumread on the slot upon their entrance in 252 which feels weird to do if they’re partnered. The two slots haven’t really interacted with each other since then, which leaves room for a lot of possibilities here


Doctor Drew/HEM- 3, Don’t think this one needs to be explained much FMPOV. As mentioned earlier in my 741 and 744, I think the way The Bulge and HEM interacted during the latter’s entrance came off as scum-buddying to me. Would also explain The Bulge being the most vocal about not wanting a Seven lim day 1


Doctor Drew/Hold- 2, The Bulge mentions wanting to look into an CS/Hold solve during the beginning of day 2 in their 461, interestingly we never see the results of that analysis. Could see Hold’s post 765 (mainly the criticism of Merlyn’s approach) maybe being made as a chainsaw defense for The Bulge? but otherwise the two slots seemed to avoid interacting with each other throughout the game.

[SmileyDude1]

Note: The above does not take into account the night kill, of which I need to think about the ramifications of.

Immediately, the fact that the scum team hit 2/2 in terms of PR night kills points to an experienced scum team (i'd need to check later, but I don't think The Bulge gave off PR vibes either so at least one of those shots were like non-obvious)

Also realizing in hindsight we prob should've hypoclaimed after the doctor flipped night 1. That we didn't, is going to complicate things dearly

I managed to read The Bulge's ISO while I was at work today and think the bolded point should be disregarded

The police don't arrest criminals, the police enforce the current caste system to protect the interest of the wealthy and are inherently biased against minorities. ACAB, baby!

all cops are bogus

That was probably obvious enough to be caught by scum in hindsight.

[SmileyDude1]

THS do you think Smiley's entrance was a bit overzealous

Having gotten a couple of games under my belt now, I think i've noticed a general tendency within my play. I feel I'm often more prone to up the ante when I feel that my faction or myself are in dire straits. As a townie, I feel we're on the brink right now, so I'm trying to put in the extra work to help work this back.

[SmileyDude1]

would you give examples of town games where you have prepared posts through the night

I would if I had any. This is my 3rd game of forum mafia ever, and my first two draws were as scum so I don't have an established town meta to work off of. As unsatisfying of an answer as it sounds, this game will be an example of this when it concludes.

Though I have an interesting question for you.

Funnily enough this is my second game of forum mafia ever actually. Before joining here, my experience with this game was mainly as a mod irl with family and watching side streams featuring it online (Originally found this game via the Smash Summit series, if any of you are familiar with that).

Will say that I did lurk around this site for a while before joining reading games for fun, so i'm familiar with a good chunk of the lingo but i'm fresh in terms of experience.

I'm flattered by the compliment though

I mentioned my experience level within this post in Newbie 2128 (which you modded) during postgame. I was wondering why you asked me that question when you should know I don't have many games that I could pull from.

[SmileyDude1]

Hello! I know I promised a quality post but I'm having my first rehearsal today (just got a role in a new production), so I'll be missing for the bulk of the afternoon and evening, BUT rest assured, I had nothing beyond "gut read lol" and I feel like regardless of alignment, I'd learn a lot from her flip.

Where are you at in terms of reads right now?

[SmileyDude1]

Was not expecting to see The Bulge slot flip night 2 (thought it was going to be a Leek kill if I had to guess). Going to need some time to think if there are any ramifications on such a kill (beyond PR hunting).

I think we're all aware of the situation that we find ourselves in at this point, but just in case.

We are in ELO. One incorrect vote ends the game as it allows scum an opportunity to quick hammer. As such, do not commit a vote unless you are ready to bet the game on that vote being correct.

Coming back to this, the composition of this final 5 is interesting to me. It means if the solve is not exactly HEM/Flowr then I'm wrong on at least one of Leek/Hold. Will probs take another look at those two slots again when I have time after I get back from work (typing these up as i'm getting ready), though my initial thought is that it'd more likely be Hold out of the aforementioned pair due to my memory of their generally being more actions that could've been scum motivated from Hold than Leek.

I'm wondering if this game is straightforward enough for their to not be deepscum present. FMPOV an HEM/Flowr solve feels like the most straightforward solve (To the point where im getting slight pings from it being "too easy"). Though if you're looking at it from the POV of others, depending on one's perspective they may also be considering me which feels like it sufficient complicates things for a hypothetical HEM/Flowr pairing.

I've got to go for now. When I get back i'll probs take another scan of the game and see what additional questions arise

Somewhat tired after work, but will probs get started on looking over the Leek/Hold ISO's again soonish. Expect to hear my conclusion on that anywhere between later tonight and sometime Saturday at the very latest

[SmileyDude1]

"highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek"

yeah this caught my eye too back then, almost everyone got scum points for Steve's lim but at least there was a differentiation there, some got less some got more scum points

When making that original list I was thinking more so from the perspective of "If I was a neutral observer of that day 1 how would I feel about the players post flip". I think in reality as a player in this game, i'd probably say that the progressions myself and TheHoldSteady made seemed genuine and non-malicious. Though if I were reading the game and not participating in it i'd likely find it notable that both of the aforementioned slots progressed from liking the Steve slot to agreeing to eliminate it. These are two slots that in retrospect probably would've been better marked as neutral, though I had felt that it may have came off as disingenuous of me to do that at the time

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

Will admit that I let myself overthink a portion of my reads to start the day, but that's what these games are for after all. Find your strengths, identify and find points to improve on and improve as a Mafia player all while playing to wincon along the way.

u seem like you're sure doing a LOT of posting after merlyn called that out
the borderline anxiety is an ehh for me

Good post from patchwork.

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

maybe you fucked up and you're now raising this question to make yourself look better. wifom really isn't anything someone should be spending their time on unless it's NKA or something. just use occam's razor lol
which states that smiley is probably scum because trying to make your readlists look different than your actual thought processes (in this case, trying to make your lists seem more towny)

Will admit that I let myself overthink a portion of my reads to start the day, but that's what these games are for after all. Find your strengths, identify and find points to improve on and improve as a Mafia player all while playing to wincon along the way.

u seem like you're sure doing a LOT of posting after merlyn called that out
the borderline anxiety is an ehh for me

In all actuality, I gain no benefit acknowledging my overthinking the way I did if i'm scum. It's not like it was a slip, it was a full blown post acknowledging my error in thinking.

If i'm scum here all I did was make people more suspicious of me and cause people to doubt the veracity of my posts throughout the game. I would've been doing this from a position where most of the playerlist had me as town before making that post, and for what benefit?

Page 28 from Smiley is really bad. Like patchwork alluded to it just reeks of defensiveness, like Smiley saw an experienced player onto him and panicked

I fully acknowledge the mistake in forming my logic with my 675, in hindsight I think I was being self-critical to a fault here as I didn't want to give myself a pass for what happened day 1 as I thought it wouldn't be helpful to blind myself to mistakes that I may have made (I think the biggest lesson i'm going to take away from this game is to be me more confident in myself as town. I know that i'm town and I know that the motivation behind my actions were pure (even if wrong), but I feel i've done a poor job portraying that this game). Will note that no one has countered my point in 686, there's no benefit to Scum!me acknowledging what I did in 675, especially when I could've just fabricated something like 705 as a response to Leek's 651 and be in a better position. I elected to be honest and acknowledge my screw-up. If this game ends on my lim then this is fully on my shoulders for dropping the ball here in spots, though I hope town realizes that a Scum!me would literally have to be engaging in self-sabotage by acknowledging 675

To: HumanEatingMonkey or anyone else who read Noir, how did Smiley do under pressure there?

Smiley gets less active after this but comes back in 745

I kind of agree about 799 being superfluous because

Leek/Hold- 2, I don’t really see anything that directly supports this pairing, though I also don’t see anything that precludes this pair existing (except for the fact that I don’t want it to. Watch this be the team and I was being pocketed this whole time )

Leek/Flowr- 2, The only indicative thing I could find here was Leek holding a consistent TR towards the CCGeek/Patchwork/Flowr slot, A generic 2 for me, not much that supports this solve, but not seeing anything that precludes it either.

Hold/Flowr- 2, Hold established an early townread on the CCGeek slot which endured until Flowr’s vote on Merlyn late day 2. Interestingly they both wound up on the Merlyn wagon despite Hold not liking that Flowr moved the wagon to E-1 during their entrance (makes me wonder if Hold was being performative with that comment in order to distance?). Not really much in terms of notable interactions outside of what was just mentioned.

A lot of this is just saying “may be partners, may be not”. But if you’re scum Smiley and there’s a dead player who suspected you maybe you want to come back with a big content post right out of the gate.

Content reads are good day one because there’s not much information to go off and even if you’re wrong, well, that player with poor content probably wasn’t going to be much help later anyhow. By now though, we need to look more at intentionality. Look at the past two days and ask who do you think was trying to win this game for scum? Who was trying to win it for town?

As mentioned earlier I composed those shortly after the flip happened and let them sit for the rest of the night phase (only editing in post numbers and tags afterwards), this was mostly picking up on the interactions that I found notable upon doing a brief scan of the the thread and memory. Will also note that two of these posts are Leek pairings and as I mentioned to earlier I was expecting a Leek NK hence why those didn't get as much thought. Looking deeper into certain pairings is the next task up for me after finishing the ISO's

Responses in

Orange

[SmileyDude1]

"highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek"

yeah this caught my eye too back then, almost everyone got scum points for Steve's lim but at least there was a differentiation there, some got less some got more scum points

When making that original list I was thinking more so from the perspective of "If I was a neutral observer of that day 1 how would I feel about the players post flip". I think in reality as a player in this game, i'd probably say that the progressions myself and TheHoldSteady made seemed genuine and non-malicious. Though if I were reading the game and not participating in it i'd likely find it notable that both of the aforementioned slots progressed from liking the Steve slot to agreeing to eliminate it. These are two slots that in retrospect probably would've been better marked as neutral, though I had felt that it may have came off as disingenuous of me to do that at the time

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

Will admit that I let myself overthink a portion of my reads to start the day, but that's what these games are for after all. Find your strengths, identify and find points to improve on and improve as a Mafia player all while playing to wincon along the way.

u seem like you're sure doing a LOT of posting after merlyn called that out
the borderline anxiety is an ehh for me

Good post from patchwork.

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

maybe you fucked up and you're now raising this question to make yourself look better. wifom really isn't anything someone should be spending their time on unless it's NKA or something. just use occam's razor lol
which states that smiley is probably scum because trying to make your readlists look different than your actual thought processes (in this case, trying to make your lists seem more towny)

Will admit that I let myself overthink a portion of my reads to start the day, but that's what these games are for after all. Find your strengths, identify and find points to improve on and improve as a Mafia player all while playing to wincon along the way.

u seem like you're sure doing a LOT of posting after merlyn called that out
the borderline anxiety is an ehh for me

In all actuality, I gain no benefit acknowledging my overthinking the way I did if i'm scum. It's not like it was a slip, it was a full blown post acknowledging my error in thinking.

If i'm scum here all I did was make people more suspicious of me and cause people to doubt the veracity of my posts throughout the game. I would've been doing this from a position where most of the playerlist had me as town before making that post, and for what benefit?

Page 28 from Smiley is really bad. Like patchwork alluded to it just reeks of defensiveness, like Smiley saw an experienced player onto him and panicked

I fully acknowledge the mistake in forming my logic with my 675, in hindsight I think I was being self-critical to a fault here as I didn't want to give myself a pass for what happened day 1 as I thought it wouldn't be helpful to blind myself to mistakes that I may have made (I think the biggest lesson i'm going to take away from this game is to be me more confident in myself as town. I know that i'm town and I know that the motivation behind my actions were pure (even if wrong), but I feel i've done a poor job portraying that this game). Will note that no one has countered my point in 686, there's no benefit to Scum!me acknowledging what I did in 675, especially when I could've just fabricated something like 705 as a response to Leek's 651 and be in a better position. I elected to be honest and acknowledge my screw-up. If this game ends on my lim then this is fully on my shoulders for dropping the ball here in spots, though I hope town realizes that a Scum!me would literally have to be engaging in self-sabotage by acknowledging 675

To: HumanEatingMonkey or anyone else who read Noir, how did Smiley do under pressure there?

Smiley gets less active after this but comes back in 745

I kind of agree about 799 being superfluous because

Leek/Hold- 2, I don’t really see anything that directly supports this pairing, though I also don’t see anything that precludes this pair existing (except for the fact that I don’t want it to. Watch this be the team and I was being pocketed this whole time )

Leek/Flowr- 2, The only indicative thing I could find here was Leek holding a consistent TR towards the CCGeek/Patchwork/Flowr slot, A generic 2 for me, not much that supports this solve, but not seeing anything that precludes it either.

Hold/Flowr- 2, Hold established an early townread on the CCGeek slot which endured until Flowr’s vote on Merlyn late day 2. Interestingly they both wound up on the Merlyn wagon despite Hold not liking that Flowr moved the wagon to E-1 during their entrance (makes me wonder if Hold was being performative with that comment in order to distance?). Not really much in terms of notable interactions outside of what was just mentioned.

A lot of this is just saying “may be partners, may be not”. But if you’re scum Smiley and there’s a dead player who suspected you maybe you want to come back with a big content post right out of the gate.

Content reads are good day one because there’s not much information to go off and even if you’re wrong, well, that player with poor content probably wasn’t going to be much help later anyhow. By now though, we need to look more at intentionality. Look at the past two days and ask who do you think was trying to win this game for scum? Who was trying to win it for town?

As mentioned earlier I composed those shortly after the flip happened and let them sit for the rest of the night phase (only editing in post numbers and tags afterwards), this was mostly picking up on the interactions that I found notable upon doing a brief scan of the the thread and memory. Will also note that two of these posts are Leek pairings and as I mentioned to earlier I was expecting a Leek NK hence why those didn't get as much thought. Looking deeper into certain pairings is the next task up for me after finishing the ISO's

Responses in

Orange

EBWOP

[SmileyDude1]

flowrbucket is being prodded.

Here we go again, number 11...

I wonder what the record is for most replacements in a newbie queue game. Would have to imagine we're close at this point if we haven't already surpassed it.

[SmileyDude1]

Was not expecting to see The Bulge slot flip night 2 (thought it was going to be a Leek kill if I had to guess). Going to need some time to think if there are any ramifications on such a kill (beyond PR hunting).

I think we're all aware of the situation that we find ourselves in at this point, but just in case.

We are in ELO. One incorrect vote ends the game as it allows scum an opportunity to quick hammer. As such, do not commit a vote unless you are ready to bet the game on that vote being correct.

Coming back to this, the composition of this final 5 is interesting to me. It means if the solve is not exactly HEM/Flowr then I'm wrong on at least one of Leek/Hold. Will probs take another look at those two slots again when I have time after I get back from work (typing these up as i'm getting ready), though my initial thought is that it'd more likely be Hold out of the aforementioned pair due to my memory of their generally being more actions that could've been scum motivated from Hold than Leek.

I'm wondering if this game is straightforward enough for their to not be deepscum present. FMPOV an HEM/Flowr solve feels like the most straightforward solve (To the point where im getting slight pings from it being "too easy"). Though if you're looking at it from the POV of others, depending on one's perspective they may also be considering me which feels like it sufficient complicates things for a hypothetical HEM/Flowr pairing.

I've got to go for now. When I get back i'll probs take another scan of the game and see what additional questions arise

Somewhat tired after work, but will probs get started on looking over the Leek/Hold ISO's again soonish. Expect to hear my conclusion on that anywhere between later tonight and sometime Saturday at the very latest

So I finished looking through the Leek and Hold ISO’s again. I’ve consistently felt that both slots portrayed town mindset through play via asking questions and attempting to solve the game. This time I went deeper and noted every push the slots made over the course of the game to check for any agenda (lestI allow myself to be blinded by seemingly towny play that actual had underlying motivation all along).

Kawaii/SzmarzLeek

61- Kawaii hypoclaims (hc?) VT in second post, not 100% sure of what to make of this but lean +town (despite being poor town play) due to such a move restricting your options in a way I don’t think scum would do (on top of potentially drawing attention towards the slot and just feeling like a weird thing to do as scum)

76- Seems to imply that Kawaii thought Happy was faking their PR soft. Interestingly that implies that the slot knew that Happy was softing and it feels weird to call out a fake soft as town this early (if you think the player is town doing this then calling it out derails any plans that player may have had in the future and brings attention

77 & 79- Both posts encourage progression of the game from Kawaii. While it’s somewhat off to espouse this without taking steps to further the game yourself, I feel it’s +town to hold this view as scum would likely be more content with a stagnant game

88- This blurb about playstyle mitigates my point of concern about 77/79

126- Kawaii’s first vote wanting to apply pressure towards Brass

141- Their response when I question their vote there, as I mention in the following post I’m not sure if Brass was the most apt target based on that criteria, but I feel now that it’s a reasonable response given the circumstances at the time.

284- Leek replaces in

285- Solid post, comes in with 2 reads with explanations to back them up (especially the Steve portion of it.

286- Questions CCGeek on where they stand in regards to me. Another good post (helping to sort)

287- Agrees with The Bulge’s 253

288 and 289- Seems to posit a scumread on the slot due to lack of content saying they’d be a better day 1 lim then Steve. The juxtaposition between this and 287 feels kind of weird, but i’ll cut a bit of slack here due to their reasoning (this would look worse if Leek was trying to argue that The Bulge was being scummy/had scummy reads over lack of content). Eh Post
290- Posts a nullread on me

291- Townreads Hold, another solid post with reasoning I generally feel tracks, posts a readlist summarizing their takes so far.

292-294: Rounds out the rest of their reads. Manages to give their stance on the entire playerlist within their first 10 posts

295 & 296- Continues to push on the Seven slot. This is a consistent theme of Leek throughout the game and I feel is the main push they’ve attempted to advance. Will probs come back to this as I continue reading but I feel that their focus towards the Seven slot this game is one of their biggest town traits this game. I feel like scum wouldn’t put so much commitment towards just one player, they’d be more likely to push towards multiple players to various degrees in order to give themselves options. I don’t sense an agenda within Leek’s focus on Seven besides pursuing a player they consider to be scum.

Going to focus more on Leek’s non-Seven related posting from here with more of an emphasis on shifts within their reads (Going post by post is starting to make my brain spin )

367 & 368- Leek transitions to not liking the Civil slot upon reread after townleaning it in 293. This tracks somewhat due to them having qualms about Civil being low content earlier, and I feel their reasoning suggests deeper analysis which tracks with them having reread there.

470- This is an interesting juxtaposition from their stance on The Bulge upon day 2 start. Probs the most questionable thing i’ve seen so far as it comes after The Bulge’s 461 which states a townread on Leek. Now that same post also includes some analysis of day 1 which maybe swayed Leek’s view on the slot, and their posting at daystart may have been made out of frustration. There may have been an incentive on Leek’s end to reciprocate The Bulge’s townread on them. Though Leek doesn’t really do much with this after that poses concern (the most notable interaction since then was The Bulge interjecting during the Leek/HEM debate day 2.

534- Eases up on the view of Merlyn (previously Civil) somewhat upon them replacing in. Not much there in terms of agenda

772- Shift in regard to HEM towards the end of day 2 (pivoting to Merlyn again) in response to Hold’s 771. This is interesting though I think it was more motivated by general trust in Hold (see the post right after) than anything else alongside potential similarities between HEM and MagicalSteve that gave pause.

In conclusion I think Leek’s lack of meaningful pushes outside the seven slot (even their push on Merlyn was in relation to HEM(seven)) indicates play that is mainly focused on scum hunting. There’s not much there for me in terms of ulterior motives and what is there either has alternative explanation or didn’t actually go anywhere.

TheHoldSteady

Doing the notable shift approach again (lest I completely fry my brain going post to post )

271- Shift from there 131 where they have MagicalSteve as town comparatively. Somewhat lacking in reasoning beyond agreeing with The Bulge’s case ( they do expand on it within their 861 though it wasn’t broadcast at the time and could feasibly be an after-the-fact type justification). Later joins the Steve wagon due to feeling better about The Bulge and their opinion that CS and Seven were low hanging elims.

753- Retracts their townread on the CCGeek slot upon Flowr’s entrance, which I find reasonable given that their entrance was pretty haphazard. It was somewhat forecasted earlier as well within 638 and 641 (though a small paranoid part of me wonders if Hold was using Flowr’s entrance as an opportunity to leave room to lim that slot later)

Generally upon rereading their ISO most of their reads seem to remain pretty consistent, with changes being consistently forecasted before they occur. That generally strikes as a towny approach.

The main worry I have with Hold is them being on both town elimination wagons. By itself this is not inherently a problem, IMO narrowing things down to eliminated a townie vs didn’t eliminate a townie often can risk missing the entire point. Rather it’s more important to look at how those who wound up on the lim wagon ended up on it. In this regard i’ve grown slightly more wary about how they ended up on the day 1 wagon. I think the process they used to reach their choice was sound, but i’m not sure i’m the biggest fan of the vague agreement with The Bulge’s case in 271 as a basis to shift their opinion on Magical Steve. It feels vague enough to potentially be hiding an agenda towards wanting to eliminate the slot. I think their logic that lead to them voting Merlyn in 765 was sound enough, though if partnered with HEM that could also have been done due to ulterior motives. I think i’ve mainly become more paranoid of a HEM/Hold solve right now. Though I do still think Hold oozes town based on play (the amount of solid posts within their ISO is impressive), i’d be lying if I said I don’t see room for ulterior motives. Think I still have them as town for the time being.

---

Made in live time starting from when I got back from work around 3ish hours ago. Got winded midway through and changed approach but it's finished none the less. I'm probably going to start looking at specific combined ISOs sometime tomorrow.

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-

Made in live time starting from when I got back from work around 3ish hours ago. Got winded midway through and changed approach but it's finished none the less. I'm probably going to start looking at specific combined ISOs sometime tomorrow.

-SNIP-

To clarify, I'm currently leaning towards an HEM vote right now. My main objective will be to look at non-HEM pairs to see if I can identify viable pairs that don't include HEM. On that note i've been thinking about it today and I think i'm ruling one such pair out

SzmarzLeek/TheHoldSteady

- These have been two of the major drivers of the game. As i've mentioned ample times already I think both consistently project a towny mindset and their interactions don't come off as paired to me (e.g475, 597). At this point, if this is the solve then scum would've done more to progress the game then town did and I think it'd be a deserved victory at that point. I could see a reality with one of the two pulling the wool over my eyes, but I don't think both of the are

Going to take a look at Hold/Flowr and Leek/Flowr soon and see if those work at all

[SmileyDude1]

its not a good feeling to have been wrong twice, but all it attests to me is with two dead prs it seems to have been a very strong performance by scum. you know who the prs are then you don't need your partner as much, right? so after being wrong twice why at this point rule out the partnership i'd be the most surprised to see, leek/hem

I don't think I can see Leek advocating a day 1 policy on their partner in the way they did. Given the apparent softs coming from both PRS day 1, I could only see this from Roleblocker Leek/ Goon Seven (knowing that the setup is cop/doctor it'd get pretty close to game throwing to immediately bus seven if they were the roleblocker). In that case i'd more so expect for Leek to start sowing seeds to push others after eventually getting the Seven flip which I don't think they did here. I'm just not seeing the benefit to Leek approaching Seven the way they did if they're partnered, especially given it started fairly quickly after the replace in (maybe if they started pushing Seven later I could see Leek cutting ties with a slot they found to be dead weight, though near immediately I'd think they would try to work with them first before committing to a bus).

[SmileyDude1]

that's the ingredient i think your isos are missing -- we're playing against competent scum this game and competent scum tend to bus

This is true, though I think my problem in regards to Leek/HEM solve is that I don't see a consistent Leek plan there. Like say Leek busses Seven successfully day 1, then what? They maybe somewhat set the stage for Civil afterwards, but like Leek would need to find 3 more eliminations (that's at minimum assuming no doctor saves) to win. Scum tend to bus yes, but I think scum also take consideration of the endgames they're going to venture into. I have a hard time imagining Leek seeing a winning endgame out of immediately bussing their partner upon replace

[SmileyDude1]

that's the ingredient i think your isos are missing -- we're playing against competent scum this game and competent scum tend to bus

This is true, though I think my problem in regards to Leek/HEM solve is that I don't see a consistent Leek plan there. Like say Leek busses Seven successfully day 1, then what? They maybe somewhat set the stage for Civil afterwards, but like Leek would need to find 3 more eliminations (that's at minimum assuming no doctor saves) to win. Scum tend to bus yes, but I think scum also take consideration of the endgames they're going to venture into. I have a hard time imagining Leek seeing a winning endgame out of immediately bussing their partner upon replace

Actually assuming scum identified both prs day 1 doctor wouldn't be a factor here (you'd roleblock cop/ kill doctor) point still stands

[SmileyDude1]

BUT

Smiley

why would you write all of that (after-night analysis) during the break

wouldn't it make more sense to wait to save your brain and see who got killed so you get a clearer picture or to make sure you weren't killed so it won't go to waste

making this analysis before nkill makes it generic as THS said

wouldn't town just wait some hours for more information

and when you don't think that a nkill might change your view on some other pairings? e. g. for other pairs you check their attitude to Bulge, Bulge gets nkilled, you still write an analysis and paste it

that's very weird

like, town has limited information and every piece matters and you didn't wait for that piece

seems like you wanted to do work for sake of working

I did so because I wanted to provide something that could be used as a jump-off point for discussion day 3 should I be alive. I was of the thought that the NK was likely to be you for being universally townread (you can see as much if you compare the blurbs in 799) and made that analysis under that assumption. I mention needing to look at the ramifications of The Bulge being the kill in my 800 with my conclusion on that being seen in my 838.


In terms of the NK not changing my view on pairings, I've Re-ISOed 2 of my town reads and have stated intention to take another look at certain pairings within my 867. My 799 was my initial view of the pairings during night 2, and most of my day 3 so far has been me taking another look at certain aspects of the game in light of recent events.

has Smiley done anything DECISIVE and BOLD this game? something like my adamant push on Seven, like Bulge finishing up Steve, like THS making the town lim Merlyn? do you recall such action?

Different players have different playstyles. Would you say it's scum-indicative that I haven't done so? Normally the concern behind the above criticism is that indicates someone who is trying to play it safe and remain in the background, which could be scum indicative. I don't think my play matches that description. There's numerous examples of me engaging the gamestate and advancing my own theories (337, 419, 511, 741, granted all of these wound up being incorrect in retrospect though it would be wrong to say I was in the background).

[SmileyDude1]

and i'm not sure where you get the idea that defending myself from elimination is a scumtell

what do you imagine town would do? if you were town, how would you avoid your elimination -- which could end up losing the game? do you just roll up to a ball and die?

if you have a set of scumtells that you blanketly apply on every game to judge a slot's alignment... then you're doing it wrong.

The main concern I have in regards to your slot is the lack of balance within your posting. Defending your slot from being eliminated isn't inherently scummy, it's something those of every alignment should be doing (unless your like a jester in a non-normal game or something). As town, there should be a mix of defending your slot with hunting out parties that do not share your wincon. My problem is the disproportionate effort you're putting into the former over the latter.

Take this for example:

Immediately, the fact that the scum team hit 2/2 in terms of PR night kills points to an experienced scum team (i'd need to check later, but I don't think The Bulge gave off PR vibes either so at least one of those shots were like non-obvious)

bad vibes

Was not expecting to see The Bulge slot flip night 2 (thought it was going to be a Leek kill if I had to guess). Going to need some time to think if there are any ramifications on such a kill (beyond PR hunting).

really bad vibes

i wonder if i iso this dude, what other shit would i see

It's clear from these posts that you scumread me, but you don't really do anything to progress this at all. You don't take another look at my ISO to check for other red flags or things that change your view. You don't look for potential associations towards me. Even your 855 while more nuanced isn't followed up on with attempts to ascertain which choice was true. These come off as level 1 thoughts, that lack depth.

More Examples of this:

life has been very busy, there's not much time for me to sort through the thread

i think we should eliminate between The Bulge, Merlyn (Civil Scum slot), SmileyDude1, and THS.

Whoever gets popular support, I'll back.

If it's still me then I will claim in 24 hours.

States a large limpool based on those on wagon day 1, precedes to not work to narrow it despite there being an extension to the game day (like given their earlier opinion on The Bulge upon entrance in 545 wouldn't it make sense to strike them from that pool)

leek's posts aren't impossible to fake as town

Postulates this, then doesn't really do anything with it (such as checking Leek's ISO to better determine whether they think Leek is faking).


Now compare to the effort put in when defending their slot.

seven being "scummily lurking" and giving "forced, weird answers" is your opinion and the story you're telling.

i clearly see a newbie who thought she'd try mafia, was uninterested, and politely excused herself out of the game.

can you really tell me looking at Seven's iso that it's an obvious town?

yeah man, it's a town iso. she's been nothing but off-the-cuff replies. it's the stream-of-consciousness shit that makes it obvious.

i'm finding it hard to believe that leek would really think that seven is scum for not pushing what leek thinks is an obvious PR slot. surely it's more beneficial for scum to push for a TPR elimination, and then seal the deal with another chance at a TPR during the NK?

i'm reaaaally finding the reason to be forced.

woah there

what truths am i manipulating, my dude

i hear you, you wanna eliminate seven because of activity
but what i'm concerned is that you're reinforcing your activity-based scumread with speculations about dancing around a slot seven wants to NK

i thought her tone was really honest. her readslist is just emotions about players in the game and i think newbscum usually feels a bit more fabricated and "right"

Note how there's a lot more depth here, there's deeper thoughts and progression on earlier points.

I find it problematic that we're getting layered thoughts in regard to defending your own slot, compared to the more basic thoughts we get when addressing other slots. It pings badly as defensive play to me

[SmileyDude1]

Note how there's more depth there, including progression on earlier points made.

I find it problematic that we're getting layered thoughts in regard to defending your slot, compared to getting more basic thoughts when addressing other slots. It pings badly as defensive play to me.

Also this is the first time I've had a post cut off due to reaching the cap. Sorry about that

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-

Made in live time starting from when I got back from work around 3ish hours ago. Got winded midway through and changed approach but it's finished none the less. I'm probably going to start looking at specific combined ISOs sometime tomorrow.

-SNIP-

To clarify, I'm currently leaning towards an HEM vote right now. My main objective will be to look at non-HEM pairs to see if I can identify viable pairs that don't include HEM. On that note i've been thinking about it today and I think i'm ruling one such pair out

SzmarzLeek/TheHoldSteady

- These have been two of the major drivers of the game. As i've mentioned ample times already I think both consistently project a towny mindset and their interactions don't come off as paired to me (e.g475, 597). At this point, if this is the solve then scum would've done more to progress the game then town did and I think it'd be a deserved victory at that point. I could see a reality with one of the two pulling the wool over my eyes, but I don't think both of the are

Going to take a look at Hold/Flowr and Leek/Flowr soon and see if those work at all

Hold/Flowr: This one's somewhat interesting due to both slots holding a mutual townreads towards the others day 1 that sustained through most of the game. Looking through the joint ISO, some of the early interactions give light buddying vibes (35 and 45-47) but there's nothing out of tune towards the slots stances of each other (think those were pretty consensus at the time based on play). The other main thing of note that came after day 1 was Hold's retraction of the townread on Flowr (CCG slot). I mentioned earlier how I was slightly paranoid of this being an attempt to distance, I don't think this remains the case for me. I feel that Hold's 641 adequately foreshadows a general souring of opinion on that slot that feels genuine (at least, as in it doesn't come off as retracting purely for the sake of distancing the slots).


Leek/Flowr: This one is more straightforward. Not really much of note between CCG/Kawaii early on. Leek places the CCGeek slot as town upon replace in and maintains this view for most of the game (only souring recently due to the slot dropping in terms of activity and even now Leek seems to be going back and forth on the slot). I think there are multiple things that make this solve unlikely. CCG's 396 and 463 both stating a scumread towards the Leek slot (especially the latter post with it being CCGeek's going away message). Leek's 528 and 888 feel genuine to me, it's not unusual for scum to instill doubt in their partner for distancing purposes, but this doesn't seem like an angle i'd expect scum to use when doing so. There's a lot of speculation from Leek about the behavior of CCGeek's replacements being scum-indicative and I think i'm of the general opinion that scum would likely find a stronger reason to lower their opinion of their partner if they were trying to distance.

I think in conclusion both of these pairings seem possible, but not all that viable to me. Thing is if you look hard enough a lot of things are possible, but I think I need to start determining what actually feels viable as a solve here and I currently lean towards the above combinations not fitting that description.

[SmileyDude1]

Given the slow day in thread, i'll just say this. I think I feel pretty content to commit to a monkey vote at this point. I'm mainly waiting for the flowr replacement to come in so I can probe them on a few things.

[SmileyDude1]

Question for after Cook finishes their catchup

Spoiler:

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

Thanks for repping in! Are you new to mafia? You sound experienced, but I was curious.

I know you said you have to work, but I'd like to hear your case on me and the one on Smiley.

Hi Merlyn! I'm experienced in the "big fish, small pond" way, I've had different groups I've played with in the meat-world and have tried to read to catch myself up with online forum mafia. But I will be inexperienced and brittle in comparison to any experienced forum players. I've got to start somewhere.

Catch me in a few hours after my work deadline and I'll go ahead and give you my thoughts.

What's your general opinion on this exchange from your predecessor?

[SmileyDude1]

You don't look for potential associations towards me.

it's a crappy way to play the game, or at least it hasn't worked for me. it only works to justify a case and get locked into confirmation bias. i could enumerate permutations of relationships, but it's really a fools errand.

it's much more efficient for me to identify alignment-indicative moments and then judge the slot through that.

i don't think your slot has any town-indicative moments, compared to leek or ths

much more difficult to discriminate between leek and ths both had given me town vibes

This doesn't address the fact that you haven't done much to progress your read on me. We're in ELO, if town believes that a certain player is likely scum then they should be working to convince others of this view since town loses if wrong. You believe my slot is scum, yet you don't make any effort (Not sure if I've seen anything beyond VCA arguments on vibe arguments, correct me if wrong) to look for information to prove this to others, or advance your read to better convince others. You've done minimal to look at associations with me (if i'm scum my interactions with others should impact your read on other players) or outside of me (In order to avoid a tunnel without considering all possibilities first, looking at other pairs outside of your main suspect helps to avoid conf-bias). It comes off like you don't really care all that much to sort the game (I know you've been busy, but like how long does it take to comb through an ISO for example like a few hours at the high end (assuming like medium-sized) to do so and post your conclusion, even a stated intention towards doing something like that would ease my mind a slight bit), which is concerning given the position town is in.

[SmileyDude1]

You don't look for potential associations towards me.

it's a crappy way to play the game, or at least it hasn't worked for me. it only works to justify a case and get locked into confirmation bias. i could enumerate permutations of relationships, but it's really a fools errand.

it's much more efficient for me to identify alignment-indicative moments and then judge the slot through that.

i don't think your slot has any town-indicative moments, compared to leek or ths

much more difficult to discriminate between leek and ths both had given me town vibes

This doesn't address the fact that you haven't done much to progress your read on me. We're in ELO, if town believes that a certain player is likely scum then they should be working to convince others of this view since town loses if wrong. You believe my slot is scum, yet you don't make any effort (Not sure if I've seen anything beyond VCA arguments on vibe arguments, correct me if wrong) to look for information to prove this to others, or advance your read to better convince others. You've done minimal to look at associations with me (if i'm scum my interactions with others should impact your read on other players) or outside of me (In order to avoid a tunnel without considering all possibilities first, looking at other pairs outside of your main suspect helps to avoid conf-bias). It comes off like you don't really care all that much to sort the game (I know you've been busy, but like how long does it take to comb through an ISO for example like a few hours at the high end (assuming like medium-sized) to do so and post your conclusion, even a stated intention towards doing something like that would ease my mind a slight bit), which is concerning given the position town is in.

I really don't see the point behind this post unless you're trying to receive towncred

Wanted to point out that they didn't actually address the argument I made in my 931, while being more clear about why I find the points mentioned within that post to be problematic.

There's four players scumreading HEM so we need to ask ourselves at this point is this the town lim that scum is trying to ride to end of game or is someone here trying to distance from him

It may help in this case to do what I did and go through pairs outside of HEM and check to see how much they track with you. The most important part should be making sure today's elimination hits scum as we lose otherwise (probing interactions can come after the flip). If you can determine the common player that's most likely to be part of the solve, then you minimize the odds of the game ending today by limming that player which is the best you can hope for in most cases. I did this FMPOV and came to the conclusion in 937 that most of the non-HEM pairs don't really work (the one that's most feasible to me is Hold/Cook but i'd place that below HEM/Cook and HEM/Hold in terms of likelihood), which eased my fear of engaging into a losing mislim by pushing there.

[SmileyDude1]

Why doesn't everyone go ahead and rank who you think is scum, from most likely to least likely.

I'll say I think HEM -> Smiley -> Cook -----> Leek

HEM---> Cook--> Hold----------> Leek

[SmileyDude1]

So if there's distancing where is it occurring?

Do you think Smiley lecturing HEM for not engaging in scumhunt enough could be an attempt at distancing?

I've held this gripe about their play dating back to 647. That doesn't preclude it from being distancing, but it's def not something I pulled out of thin air, if that's what your implying.

[SmileyDude1]

Less than a day now. I'm leaving for work in a second, but I should be available through deadline around 9-10 hours from now (May be able to sneak some lunchbreak-posting in the case of an emergency, though I usually prefer not doing so as I tend to get absorbed while doing so and forget to eat )

[SmileyDude1]

My PoE:
HEM-(Most likely for me at this point, though their recent posting has me worried that I might be off here (hence why they're not the only person in this PoE). It doesn't really match the vibe I'd expect from scum and while it's probably wrong for me to read too much into it, I can't help but be slightly paranoid.)

Cook- (Much less likely. As mentioned earlier, I think the only feasible solve that doesn't include HEM is a Hold/Cook solve. Based on play reasons, If I had to choose between the two i'd rather bet on Cook first over Hold (This mostly comes down to Cook's slot being relatively absent for most of the game and Hold being solid for most of the game, I like Cook's entrance here).

[SmileyDude1]

lol I just read the queue changes

this is the last newbie game ever

new players will simply go to normal/open queues now

we historical now fellas

more pressure for us

The end of an Era. and what a game to end it on. Honored to be a part of it.

Anyways got to go, will be back later

[SmileyDude1]

guys link me Smiley's scum games

Newbie 2126: (replaced in, loss)
Newbie 2128: (There from the beginning, win)

On mobile right now so can't really link, though both games should be on the Road to Rome page.

Will be back later.

[SmileyDude1]

Just finished work and am free now (not quite at home yet so still mobile posting)

The most important thing here is to avoid a no-lim. Leek,Hold what's your PoE

[SmileyDude1]

I think we're all down for HEM, and I think that they're the most likely scum here based on both play and through looking at likely pairs.

We're running out of time, and I don't want to chance a no-lim here. Im sending it VOTE: humaneatingmonkey.

If this winds up being Cook/Hold then I give full permission to mock me in postgame for my terrible reads.

*Crossing Fingers*

[SmileyDude1]

I think smileys no dumbie and as scum he's going to want to distance from a doing nothing partner

Plus Geek was really town

Or it's Smiley and Cook and they're waiting for Cook to come on and hammer

My progression on HEM has been pretty clear dating back to 647 (and that came after the point HEM was most active), what about it feels ingenuine to you. Like in theory any change in read could be called buddying/pocketing (if positive) or distancing (if negative). Progression on a slot can often be fabricated for ulterior motives, but it just as easily could be one's legitimate progression on the slot. When looking at interactions to check for distancing it's important to ask yourself is the progression genuine or fabricated. So the question to answer here is do you think my progression on monkey was fabricated and if so what about it feels ingenuine to you?

[SmileyDude1]

last newbie game in history

I wonder if there's people in spec thread following this historical clown fiesta

cheers to you if you do

How long are you going to be available for?

In case Cook doesn't come back.

[SmileyDude1]

leek, do you have something to share with the table?

Also, quoting for Ping

[SmileyDude1]

One down, one to go. Let's finish the comeback. Thought i'd start by looking through the interactions between HEM/Seven and the Hold and CCGeek slots, looking for anything of note that I may have missed.

TheHoldSteady & SevenEyes/humaneatingmonkey

Man. I'm just struggling to get my brain to work here.

Spoiler: BrassHerald

All posts up to #113 seemed to be just RVS stage light joking. Seemed to come in with a loose and relaxed attitude, but otherwise not seeing much to go off of there.

I already said #113 was sus and upon rereading I’m still gonna stand by that.

So far MagicalSteve seems to be the town leader

Also, this feels like an attempt at pocketing.

Hmmm, guess we're not in RVS anymore. Shame it was fun while it lasted.

VOTE: Kawaii

This seems like you’re voting without solving to accompany it

Posts #171-173: BrassHerald keeps pushing that "why did you self vote" thing which reminds me of scum looking for an easy target. CCGeek voted Smiley already in #130 and Eyes posted an FoS in #164. So this could be opportunistic of that.

BrassHerald hasn't posted since 173.

Spoiler: SmileyDude1

Okay but actual question, how do we proceed from here?

Given that we're approaching 4 days until deadline we should probably start consolidating so we have time for claims and discussion. I have to leave for work in a second, but i'll be back later to discuss.

I agree

I literally said not to push your self vote and then just agreed with another person on your answer to it being weird.

Commenting on the game state is a normal way to play the game. Weird isn't even a push. It's just weird. Town can be weird.

I think I may have misinterpreted your 154 as saying that both my self-vote and self criticism was weird in isolation when you meant that they were weird put together. The former didn't really make sense since you defended the self-vote earlier, the latter is a fair point

And why are you counting out high princess, the literal one I was agreeing with it being weird with?

My reasoning on this mainly stems that they're suspicion came before I had actually explained my actions and so I understood why my actions up to that point would be seen as weird out of context, the two posts mentioned in 170 came after I had already explained and felt dogpiley (probs not the right word for it, but alas) to me.

Though given the misunderstanding UNVOTE: BrassHerald
VOTE: SevenEyes

So after rereading, I think SmileyDude shows a thorough and articulate thought process and is asking relevant questions. In particular, like posts #146, #169, #186.

Spoiler: SevenEyes

SevenEyes

i feel like the game's still a bit slow atp, since we dont hav much info and we are kinda just resorting to pointing fingers at each other? correct me if im wrong though.

This seems like something an inexperienced town would say.

Yeah so Seven could be town off of that one post but overall is almost completely null to me. With only five posts there just isn’t much there to go off of.

Hold responds positively to an early Seven post though states a nullread on them for the time being , due to low content.

apologies for inactivity. i agree with magicalsteve on this one- after brassheralds vote reached e-1, got unhammered, and you got replaced in, you're really trying to flip the case to immediately target someone else ... idk ... if anything the vibes are off ...

apologies for inactivity. i agree with magicalsteve on this one- after brassheralds vote reached e-1, got unhammered, and you got replaced in, you're really trying to flip the case to immediately target someone else ... idk ... if anything the vibes are off ...

if your slot was at e1 the day before you can and should try to flip the case. it benefits you regardless of alignment.

Seven tries to push The Bulge for attempting to flip the case away from them only to be rebutted by Hold. I think it'd be weird of Hold to publicly cut Seven off like this in the case of them being partnered.

He's had more substansive reads than Seven and BrassHerald does / did, such as post 51

Hold's response to Bulge placing a scumread on CCGeek slot, projects a low opinion on the Seven slot

apologiese for the shoddy formatting lol i dont know how to make text bold

ccgeek: ccg is giving me good vibes so far. i feel like he's actively trying to move the game forward, while also not making every single post super serious and/or accusatory, which is good. generally townlean imo

civil scum: i feel like he hasn't offered much substantial info that can be used to progress the game, but to be fair it is day 1. generally town ish ... but im kind of on the fence.

iamveryhappy: there was quite a lot of discourse about his first post, and tbh i think that might have just been a joke that landed kind of poorly. i feel like he hasn't offered many mafia-relevant posts or tried to progress the game at all, and some of his posts are a bit questionable (like all the stuff about soft claiming). his kind of playstyle is kind of confusing to me because everything is just sort of unclear with him. maybe a slight scum lean?

magical steve: his posts are mostly mafia-related and he's been proactive in voting and making reads on people. how good those reads are or how scummy those posts are though... not sure. immediately targeting iavh's post 1 as a cop claim was kind of weird. i agree with leek saying that steve overreacted a bit to some of the earlier posts that could have just been unserious or suggestions. i'm sitting on the fence.

smileydude: i might have said this before but his self vote was a bit suspicious when it happened. maybe a strange attempt at humour, maybe inherently scummy behaviour... looking back on it i don't know if it was really as weird as i thought it was. null/slight townlean imo

leek: i'm kind of ashamed of myself actually, because leek immediately jumped in and contributed more than i have this entire game, lmao. he's offered some good points that i generally agree with. all of his posts have been mafia-relevant, which is good to see. townread, imo.

the bulge: i'm not getting good vibes from the bulge. their posts are incredibly short and snippy, and the "yuck" post in particular was a weird way to respond to a post about just voting, let alone any post. scumlean, imo. (by the way, ive had to refer to you with they/them in this post, but what are your pronouns?)

theholdsteady: not a whole lot of content his posts either offer relevant opinions/reads on posts or are helpful generally. i'm getting good/neutral vibes. don't really have a whole lot to say abt him, probably townlean atp.

Seven places a town lean on Hold based on vibes, wouldn't agree with their blurb on hold especially given posts like 217 that I mentioned earlier.

Actually, I'm leaning towards Steve at the moment because I like Bulge more than I liked Herald and I don't think the argument for voting SevenEyes is good

Hold states that the argument for voting Seven isn't good and given that the case up to this point was mostly policy based, I think this is fair (I myself had came to the same conclusion)

CS and SevenEyes just feel like LHF lims. What do we even learn if they flip town?

UNVOTE: The Bulge

VOTE: MagicalSteve

This vote places MagicalSteve at E-1. Please declare intention to hammer before voting him again.

Hold votes Steve, saying Seven would be an LHF lim

i did not expect iavh to flip as town doctor, but now that we don't have a doctor, we'll probably have to make our decisions more carefully

Huh. What made you not expect iavh to flip doctor?

Hold poses a question towards Seven. In light of Seven flipping red the above post by Seven is pretty wild, and I think Hold questioning them in this way has the potential to put them in hot water that i'd think Hold would look to avoid if partnered

i did not expect iavh to flip as town doctor, but now that we don't have a doctor, we'll probably have to make our decisions more carefully

that was a weird post

I agree, which is why I asked her to clarify what she meant.

VOTE: SevenEyes

Votes Seven agreeing with Leek that their 452 was weird, first vote on the slot

Everyone has ignored Seven (Geek and Bulge ignored in their posts, Smiley did as well until asked otherwise) except for Leek who is constantly focusing in. It's not adding up. Possible that Seven could be scum with a more experienced player as a partner covering up.

Posits the idea of Seven being partnered with an experienced player.

Seven got replaced by monkey who hasn't really shown any decent activity or progression, felt like they mostly wanted to defend themselves

So weird to me

When I look at Monkey's experience level I just expect so much more you know

His ISO almost reads like he doesn't actually want to be here

Feels like more of a town frustration of the monkey slot coming from Hold here. Not sure if Hold would be brazen enough to criticize an HEM partner in main thread like this (this feels like it'd be more of a scum PT thing to say is what i'm driving at)

that's a big jump though for monkey to be your top2 town reads (and Seven being pretty towny) to wanting to hammer them

Leek do you still think HEM is a better lim than Merlyn? I think there's a good chance she flips scum. I can place either one at e1 in my current position but you've basically become the town leader so I would like to get your up-to-date perspective first

Have stated my concern about Hold potentially choosing Merlyn over HEM day 2 out of potential ulterior motives, though I think if that was the intention he wouldn't ask Leek for their opinion on the matter first. I could see this coming from an HEM/Hold team still with Hold feeling fine with bussing monkey here if Leek agrees with it, though I don't think I see potential for Hold's pivot towards Merlyn day 2 being purely to save HEM anymore

if i want to no effort, i'll just drop a vote on obviously between Smiley and THS

1.FINAL

Votecount 1.FINAL

MagicalSteve (ELIMINATED): iamveryhappy, The Bulge, SmileyDude1, TheHoldSteady, Civil Scum
SmileyDude1 (1): CCGeek
Civil Scum (1): SzmarzLeek

Not Voting (2): SevenEyes, MagicalSteve

With 9 players alive, it took 5 votes to secure an elimination.

i think if i did that, game wouldn't end.

HEM pushes THS here (also alludes to a THS/Me team?)

i was busy. you'll understand if it was your nth mafia game in the newbies as a replacement. see how engaged you will be when you're on the chopping block and you're VT anyway

I read your ISO yesterday and all I thought was that this person doesn't seem like they want to be here at all. So your reason collaborates with that.

Hold finds HEM reasoning for their low engagement yesterday to be reasonable. Not much there that indicates either way to me here (probably could've left it out in retrospect but shrug)

i think we're living in a {smiley, ths/leek} world

Again floats a myself,Hold solve

why not THS?

HEM pushes Hold in an attempt to get Leek to question there read towards them

THS is fine, he didn't hammer me yesterday before i had the chance to claim. that's probably +town

why not THS?

you answered your own question not that long ago

Hold counters HEM here

VOTE: Merlyn

This vote is pretty bad looking

(sort of) mentioned Merlyn once in 552, 694, and then never again before this vote

Accusing Bulge + Merlyn just felt like quietly sliding on the accusations that were already out (that we now have the hindsight were town), meaning 694 aged poorly

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

This vote was also really REALLY sketchy

Its very hard, though admittedly not completely impossible, for scum to win a game without voting town at least once in the first two days. These votes are very questionable with the hindsight of Merlyn's flip. I'm confident that one of these slots will flip scum

Hold pushes HEM and Cook within this post questioning their votes on Merlyn day 2. Interestingly leaves room here to flip either of the two.

i think leek is town and hem is scum

just need content from you tbh your slot hasn't had an active player since day 1

Hold posits a scumread on HEM at this point

Where I'm at right now

HEM: Playing defensively, tried to make Seven come across as more town than they were, subtle vote onto town with little explanation in 721, lean scum
Leek: Generally if HEM is scum I don't see it, has been a productive townie player
Smiley: Slight scum for reasons already mentioned
Cook: Idk

Hold expands on their scumread on HEM

So if there's distancing where is it occurring?

Do you think Smiley lecturing HEM for not engaging in scumhunt enough could be an attempt at distancing?

Hold posits a myself/HEM scum team with me attempting to distance here

HEM will you blame us or yourself when we lose?

This is another quote that feels like town frustration (once again if paired i'd think this type of post would be more likely to be kept to the Mafia PT), though I think this was at a point in the day where it had become decently clear where the elimination was landing so could easily be distancing.

Last wishes if I die tonight: I really think its more likely here that Smiley is bussing because Geek was really town and Smiley was weird in certain places please go back and read my ISOs that I gave

Floats a myself/HEM solve again.


In conclusion on the associations between HEM and Hold, I feel like there's problems with this solve, I think Seven's read on Hold early feels slightly ungenerous in a way that maybe was meant to shade, and I think Hold would've been acting to undercut their partner at points. I think there were also multiple points where Hold responded towards the HEM slot in a tone that I would not expect a partner to broadcast publicly (especially reins true in the first instance I mentioned, not sure if Hold would've committed towards bussing the slot at that point). I do find it interesting that both HEM and Hold were pushing each other day 3 while positing myself as a partner in both instances. I could imagine it being distancing with intent of getting me caught up in the fray there ( maybe was an attempt to posit me as part of the consensus solve and swing a lim there either yesterday or today in ELO?). This along with Hold's votes on day 1 and 2 (As mentioned earlier, I feel like their justification makes reasonable enough sense, but I feel day 1 claiming Seven as a LHF lim is fair but easy enough to come up with as scum, and day 2 Hold may have been content to go either way on voting HEM thinking they'd be good regardless) make me feel the solve is feasible, but I think I feel less confident in this solve compared to before I looked at it.

[SmileyDude1]

Now time for the Cook slot/ HEM slot associations

HEM Slot/ Cook Slot

ok no i actually like brassherald as the game has progressed, I want to see people look into this. VOTE: SmileyDude1

Agree that LuB's post about MagicalSteve being the town leader is apparently out of nowhere. Also people, this game so far is the reason you should never have multiple PS troll players in a single MS game.

SevenEyes, welcome! Give me the name of the person you like the most and the one you like the least right now, and we'll go from there.

simply going off of vibes i think that you are maybe one of the least sus rn. smileydude, on the other hand ... i'm no expert but self voting is always kinda sus ...

Seven speaks positively of CCGeek here, CCGeek's post calling Seven to action is interesting to note.

Hello people, I exist (probably), someone talk to me about the fact that we are halfway through day 1 and 2 people have non-existent ISOs.

CCG comes off as somewhat critical of Seven due to lack of content

Well, 3 people, actually. Include Brassherald in that list. I just revisited Brassherald and I'm really conflicted. While I give SevenEyes a pass for newbie awkwardness (which I shouldn't), Brassherald has this weird non-committal tone which I really don't like, but well gut reads can get me so far.

My impressions about MagicalSteve start from a negative intercept but now I definitely TR him for this day at least.

I will refrain from attempting to read LuB even remotely.

Is it weird that I find the brassherald-SmileyDude interaction slightly stiff?

TR: TheHoldSteady > MagicalSteve
TL: Iavh,
Null: LuB > SmileyDude > SevenEyes > Erinys
SL(?): brassherald
SR: None so far

CCG has Seven in the nullread section

In conclusion, seven should just talk to us, that's enough to generate content

CCG offers advice to Seven. If paired this seems like a weird thing to post publicly instead of in a PT, though isn't it fairly common to resort to going public in many cases in the event your partner isn't listening to you,

apologiese for the shoddy formatting lol i dont know how to make text bold

ccgeek: ccg is giving me good vibes so far. i feel like he's actively trying to move the game forward, while also not making every single post super serious and/or accusatory, which is good. generally townlean imo

civil scum: i feel like he hasn't offered much substantial info that can be used to progress the game, but to be fair it is day 1. generally town ish ... but im kind of on the fence.

iamveryhappy: there was quite a lot of discourse about his first post, and tbh i think that might have just been a joke that landed kind of poorly. i feel like he hasn't offered many mafia-relevant posts or tried to progress the game at all, and some of his posts are a bit questionable (like all the stuff about soft claiming). his kind of playstyle is kind of confusing to me because everything is just sort of unclear with him. maybe a slight scum lean?

magical steve: his posts are mostly mafia-related and he's been proactive in voting and making reads on people. how good those reads are or how scummy those posts are though... not sure. immediately targeting iavh's post 1 as a cop claim was kind of weird. i agree with leek saying that steve overreacted a bit to some of the earlier posts that could have just been unserious or suggestions. i'm sitting on the fence.

smileydude: i might have said this before but his self vote was a bit suspicious when it happened. maybe a strange attempt at humour, maybe inherently scummy behaviour... looking back on it i don't know if it was really as weird as i thought it was. null/slight townlean imo

leek: i'm kind of ashamed of myself actually, because leek immediately jumped in and contributed more than i have this entire game, lmao. he's offered some good points that i generally agree with. all of his posts have been mafia-relevant, which is good to see. townread, imo.

the bulge: i'm not getting good vibes from the bulge. their posts are incredibly short and snippy, and the "yuck" post in particular was a weird way to respond to a post about just voting, let alone any post. scumlean, imo. (by the way, ive had to refer to you with they/them in this post, but what are your pronouns?)

theholdsteady: not a whole lot of content his posts either offer relevant opinions/reads on posts or are helpful generally. i'm getting good/neutral vibes. don't really have a whole lot to say abt him, probably townlean atp.

Seven holds a townlean on CCG in this post and what feels like one of their stronger ones at that (I think the only slot they speak better about here is Leek)

If we're sharing limpools, with exactly how much I've skimmed; this is mine as of right now:
{MagicalSteve, Civil Scum, SzmarzLeek}
I really really dislike SzmarzLeek right now, feels like a surface-y slot that is attempting to pocket (also attempting to redirect the wagon, which is kind of Too Scummy to be Scum, which is why I'm only using it as a supplement to the read.)

My strong TRs are:
{The Bulge, TheHoldSteady}

Iavh eventually sorts himself IMO.

I don't feel strongly about Smiley, I'll have to read him more carefully.

Neutral on SevenEyes, I don't know how to deal with that inactive of a slot.

CCG states their limpool with Seven outside of it with them being in neutral due to lack of content. The line on SevenEyes I could potentially see coming from scum CCG in reference to a partner though that may be a stretch on my part.

hey, i'm here to pop in quickly: not reallu sure what the context is on Seven Eyes but if anyone ever tries to defend their predecessor from a scumread it's generally a red flag.
note on my vla: i've mostly finished my work so i think i can return to the game sometime tomorrow. i should be wrapping things up around tonight so if i'm fast it can probably end today
also hii merlyn

is the idea she's scum because she's avoiding to eliminate happy?
if scum!seveneyes identified the pr, why would she need to avoid pushing the slot if the opportunity presented itself? doesn't she want to push the slot?

the thing is, she scumread it but "forgot" to push it

and the whole game was scummy, playing to avoid the prods and mostly talking when pushed to that

that doesn't sound like scum, but rather just a player who wasn't really that interested in playing the game

Uhhhh no that's kind of a scumtell
town has a intrinsic motivation to solve ehte game because thye're the uninformed ones, not scum. if someone announces a scumread but just lets it sit there and acts all fencesitty it's kind of scummy lol

wait is humaneatingmonkey experienced

woah, they are. that's a little absurd. leek, out of curiosity, when did seven eyes announce their scumread on happy, and when did they say they forgot to push it in comparison to when they replaced out?

cause i'm not really gonna buy this borderline angleshooty "she lost interest and excused herself from the game" (paraphrased) narrative unless there's proof backing it up and i'm not really able to read the thread right now. currently i'm buyign leek's argument more based on the quotes i've skimmed but i'm willing to give the slot the benefit of the doubt

Patchwork pushes HEM for defending their predecessor too much, and for the slot failing to solve the game. The aggressiveness behind this push suggests that the slots are not paired

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

This vote by flowr putting Merlyn at E-1 was pretty bad and the slot's psuedodefense of HEM is't helping matters here

ok so i'm sick and have dm'd alianna to replace out

before that very rushed thoughts:
i expected clems to flip pr, albeit not doc, all his d1 nonsense was kind of telling to me more than it usually is, but am more surprised at whoever decided to kill the iavh slot.

i do not like smiley's case because i had been reading, and surely people could tell from my live read session that was cutshort by my fever; I'm pretty sure that's room enough for progression, you may disagree tho. also keep in mind that I never actually even voted for the lim, which partly was due to all this, but imo having steve in my limpool should not really equate scummy by itself.

i still HATE the szmarzleek slot that just feels weirdly coasty and pockety and IMHO shouldnot be trusted. him being the main resistance to steve does not prove anything because it's very easily fakeable as scum.

holdsteady is the one person i still believe is hard town in my eyes.

i also think bulge can make or break this game with proper decisions because it seems like he's the one town is gradually gravitating to as the leader. imo look at one of civil scum (by wagonomics) or szmarzleek first.

side thought, smiley+bulge team would probably mean disaster for town.

this was flower's slot, and this looks like the most town-indicative post in the game thus far

he was about to replace out and i don't think there's scum motivation to drop this on his way out

HEM calls the flowr slot town due to CCGeek's farewell post

the reason i'm not voting smiley here dude.. is because flower's slot hasn't showed up yet

Paranoid part of me thinks that HEM was waiting for their partner to come back before committing on me

Cook what's your Smiley read

Paranoid part of me thinks that this may have been HEM signalling to partner Cook (though this doesn't really go anywhere afterwards so likely unfounded).

day 2:

we lost a VT and our protective. damn it. we know we're in either b2 or a1 though so
leekposting is just what it is tbh. townlean on leek
why does the bulge think he's not going to survive n1? feels a very obvious towntell
seven also has the same calculated voice as leek
bulge removes his previous towncred by posting 457
ccgeek and leek dislike each other?
SD1 town for apologizing in 466
leek's a little weird in 474
THS poe seems fine.
leek's point on sd1's scum in elo being very good also worries me too
the CS case? how did CS escape being suspected up to this point? the case clearly is getting built, time to watch who greases it
leek continues to concern me
and here comes HEM
SD1 focuses on themselves
also here comes merlyn instead of CS
merlyn's readslist is... i feel like it's wrong, but not wrong because she's scum
leek's reads in 522 don't explain the scumreads, but do explain the townreads?
wait hang on why do i like leek now
okay now i'm liking leek
HEM irks me with the defense of SevenEyes. makes me scumread him. the bulge push from HEM also does no favors, especially in hindsight. they don't have a rolecop but i would think they had a rolecop and found bulge possibly.
THS on page 24 could be scum. actually no i SR THS
SD1, HEM, THS are my scumrange as of pg 26
leek with the towncred on page 25
i'm townreading merlyn atp
still not sure what i think of SD1 as of page 26, they're losing cred as we're speaking. HEM/SD1 world doesn't make sense to me
why does HEM not die, given the state at pg 28?
szmarzleek's concerns still feel towny
i would be SR'ing merlyn with HEM on page 29

my thoughts end there since i stopped reading on page 29

Cook states their dislike of HEM's defense of SevenEyes and has them in their scumrange. Says myself/HEM doesn't make sense as a solve (remains consistent with this in their 967

also is hem scum

? seems weird given the stance taken earlier

i don't think leek and ths are buddies

i see hem as likely scum. sd1, ths, are next, leek, myself, in that order

States HEM as likely scum again. I think the shift from 1009 to 1018 maybe was them being uncertain and then regaining confidence, still feels kind of off though.

frankly i'm seeing THS/HEM as the pair? i need to read about 11 pages of content before i lock that in

the common theme seems to be hem across the four of us. i think it is helpful to try to draw out an associative on hem, up to your personal preference if you want to go for hem or want to try to kill a partner so that we 100% win d4

Posits Hold/HEM as the pair

In conclusion on associations between HEM/Cook, this solve seems to jump around in viability depending on who's in the Cook slot. I can see the hints there with CCGeek potentially guiding a new scum buddy Seven day 1 while keeping associations between the two at a minimum, but then when Patchwork and HEM come in later and the former's stance towards the latter is hard to see coming from a scum buddy (especially given Leek was kind of alone in terms of substantially pushing monkey at this point, decent chance that just flames out had Patch not done that). Flowr replaces Patch and immediately makes the pair with HEM feel viaable again with their vote and defense of the slot (Especially given the lack of justification), then Cook comes in and takes stances that go back to feeling unpaired with HEM, if not having some slight consistency issues for my liking). The overall content from the CCG/Patch/Flowr/Cook slot towards the Seven/HEM slot feel pretty different in terms of how the slots treat each other, which makes it difficult to gauge how viable the pair feels as a solve

[SmileyDude1]

smiley i'd like you to pick one of those two worlds as your solve

the way you're framing things makes me think that you're trying to be friendly to both slots early on to see who takes the bait on the other one

If i'm being honest i'd need more time to think it over. My mind keeps going back and forth between the two of you and i'd be lying if I said I could give you an confident answer on that at this moment.

[SmileyDude1]

smiley i'd like you to pick one of those two worlds as your solve

the way you're framing things makes me think that you're trying to be friendly to both slots early on to see who takes the bait on the other one

smiley i'd like you to pick one of those two worlds as your solve

the way you're framing things makes me think that you're trying to be friendly to both slots early on to see who takes the bait on the other one

If i'm being honest i'd need more time to think it over. My mind keeps going back and forth between the two of you and i'd be lying if I said I could give you an confident answer on that at this moment.

Ok, so i've had time to sleep on it, and I think I lean towards you right now. Of the 4 people who've represented your slot, I see at least hints of an HEM partnership with 3 of them (CCG potentially having trouble working with partner Seven, Flowr's 751 vote pushing HEM counterwagon while defending them, your 1009 having potential to be an attempt to instill doubt regarding Scum!HEM), and even looking at Patchwork again they kind of hedged their push on HEM in 588 stating that they're giving them the benefit of doubt. I think comparatively Hold feels less likely due to there being multiple moments where Hold kind of undercut the Seven/HEM slot in a way that I feel indicates their not partnered.

[SmileyDude1]

THS plays very similarly though to his scum game

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91126&user_select%5B%5D=37112

I think smileys no dumbie and as scum he's going to want to distance from a doing nothing partner

Plus Geek was really town

Or it's Smiley and Cook and they're waiting for Cook to come on and hammer

My progression on HEM has been pretty clear dating back to 647 (and that came after the point HEM was most active), what about it feels ingenuine to you. Like in theory any change in read could be called buddying/pocketing (if positive) or distancing (if negative). Progression on a slot can often be fabricated for ulterior motives, but it just as easily could be one's legitimate progression on the slot. When looking at interactions to check for distancing it's important to ask yourself is the progression genuine or fabricated. So the question to answer here is do you think my progression on monkey was fabricated and if so what about it feels ingenuine to you?

Just to clarify I wasn't saying anything about your progression. Just that post in particular felt like a high word count but not solving content (scum can be unproductive, but town can also be unproductive, so it doesn't tell us much to just say this person's not doing ISOs or responding to reads) which I interpreted as a possible distancing attempt

Hold, How do you respond to this accusation? What would you say is the difference between your posting here and 2126?

[SmileyDude1]

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

Thanks for repping in! Are you new to mafia? You sound experienced, but I was curious.

I know you said you have to work, but I'd like to hear your case on me and the one on Smiley.

Hi Merlyn! I'm experienced in the "big fish, small pond" way, I've had different groups I've played with in the meat-world and have tried to read to catch myself up with online forum mafia. But I will be inexperienced and brittle in comparison to any experienced forum players. I've got to start somewhere.

Catch me in a few hours after my work deadline and I'll go ahead and give you my thoughts.

Reupping the question in my 959 (behind the spoiler).
It felt off to me that Flowr responded to Merlyn asking for their case on them by telling them to ask again later given Flowr scumread them enough to vote on the slot.

[SmileyDude1]

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

Thanks for repping in! Are you new to mafia? You sound experienced, but I was curious.

I know you said you have to work, but I'd like to hear your case on me and the one on Smiley.

Hi Merlyn! I'm experienced in the "big fish, small pond" way, I've had different groups I've played with in the meat-world and have tried to read to catch myself up with online forum mafia. But I will be inexperienced and brittle in comparison to any experienced forum players. I've got to start somewhere.

Catch me in a few hours after my work deadline and I'll go ahead and give you my thoughts.

Reupping the question in my 959 (behind the spoiler).
It felt off to me that Flowr responded to Merlyn asking for their case on them by telling them to ask again later given Flowr scumread them enough to vote on the slot.

The above post was directed at Cook

i'm gonna actually catch up on day 3 before my repin and see what i think

[SmileyDude1]

THS plays very similarly though to his scum game

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91126&user_select%5B%5D=37112

I think smileys no dumbie and as scum he's going to want to distance from a doing nothing partner

Plus Geek was really town

Or it's Smiley and Cook and they're waiting for Cook to come on and hammer

My progression on HEM has been pretty clear dating back to 647 (and that came after the point HEM was most active), what about it feels ingenuine to you. Like in theory any change in read could be called buddying/pocketing (if positive) or distancing (if negative). Progression on a slot can often be fabricated for ulterior motives, but it just as easily could be one's legitimate progression on the slot. When looking at interactions to check for distancing it's important to ask yourself is the progression genuine or fabricated. So the question to answer here is do you think my progression on monkey was fabricated and if so what about it feels ingenuine to you?

Just to clarify I wasn't saying anything about your progression. Just that post in particular felt like a high word count but not solving content (scum can be unproductive, but town can also be unproductive, so it doesn't tell us much to just say this person's not doing ISOs or responding to reads) which I interpreted as a possible distancing attempt

Hold, How do you respond to this accusation? What would you say is the difference between your posting here and 2126?

i'm assuming you quoted the wrong thing here. what's the difference? idk, i was scum that game but town this one? town is generally less pressure for me to play because you don't have to fear persecution as much which generally was something that contributed to my acrimonious exit from 2126. i think i already told you in the pt of that game, i hated playing scum day 1 and it was incredibly anxiety-producing for me. but playing town also does have its times of high pressure such as this one

I was quoting for ping. I had ascertained the same thing myself upon comparing your ISO from that game to this one. I recollect checking a small part of your ISO from that game upon Leek originally mentioning that and feeling that while similar you seemed to be more tense in that game compared to this one (not even just the replace out, some of your early interactions with Merlyn that game gave off that same semi-panicked vibe too).

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-

"highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek"

yeah this caught my eye too back then, almost everyone got scum points for Steve's lim but at least there was a differentiation there, some got less some got more scum points

When making that original list I was thinking more so from the perspective of "If I was a neutral observer of that day 1 how would I feel about the players post flip". I think in reality as a player in this game, i'd probably say that the progressions myself and TheHoldSteady made seemed genuine and non-malicious. Though if I were reading the game and not participating in it i'd likely find it notable that both of the aforementioned slots progressed from liking the Steve slot to agreeing to eliminate it. These are two slots that in retrospect probably would've been better marked as neutral, though I had felt that it may have came off as disingenuous of me to do that at the time

This kind of overthinking is not a towny trait

I still think its more scum than town to worry about coming off as disingenuous. Just can’t shake that comment from Smiley

in D2 454,he says ''here's what I learned from the flip' and highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek. Doesn't bring up that he was looking at CS as a Steve partner. Doesn't reconsider based on the fact that Steve was town. Keeps CS as his main scumread.

This is a good point

I'm still leaning towards Smiley for the subtlety of the switch off of SevenEyes D1, some progression inconsistencies like the one Merlyn pointed about above, general defensiveness (there's at least a few times where Smiley responded to accusations in ways that felt sort of like a scum being worried about suspicion), admitting to being afraid of sounding disingenuous, as well as just reading CCGeek as really town D1 and not seeing a clear agenda with any of his three replacement slots

IDRK though

My list in 454 was meant to be read in a relative point of view (note the terminology used there, when I say +scum I'm not saying that the person is scum so much as i'm saying that I feel x amount worse about said player). My push on CS day 2 was mostly based on my view that the inconsistent stances they had on the Steve slot late day 1 indicated that there support for the wagon may have been more opportunistic. While I was suspicious of CS having committed to a Happy vote despite their 253 earlier, if they had stuck with their view on 416 I likely wouldn't have thought too much of it day 2, it was more so the fact they restated a scumlean on the Steve slot in their 427 after that pinged me to continue there.

In regards to defensiveness that's NAI. Both town and scum have incentive to defend their slot from pushes towards them (As I said before, defending yourself on it's own isn't a scum trait, it's when it comes at the detriment of solving that it becomes scummy) both from a preservation standpoint (dying makes it harder for your faction to achieve its wincon), and from a solving standpoint (defending pushes may help to identify who's pushing in a less than genuine manner compared to others)

As for my 675, as i've mentioned numerous times now it was a mistake caused by being too ungenerous to myself as a player, it was self-criticism to a fault. All I ask is to look at it again and ask yourself this question. Was 675 more so town acknowledging a mistake or scum slipping up and giving a bad answer? My 2 cents on the matter, that post FMPOV was a full outright acknowledgement of an incorrect perspective that I used earlier in the game, that wasn't a subtle slip that fell through the cracks. I know this gets into all sorts of WIFOM territory about whether it was or was not something i'd do as scum, but look at it this way. It gained me no benefit to do as scum, it caused my position much harm this game if I was scum, and I was not necessarily pinned into posting 675 if i'm scum (see 705). Consider the above and the conclusion on that question should be clear

[SmileyDude1]

here's my dilemma:

if i go off of partner interactions, it seems like it'd be cook

if i go off of individual tells, i lean smiley

has there been any sort of consistency with my slot being solveworthy? or is it more a "ehh this feels like some of the interactions are scummy and the consensus against everyone who's played it seems to indicate it's scum"

i'm hung up on 729 and 730 and hem and smiley pushing on each other yesterday because those are the things that seem to indicate they wouldn't be a team. and if they're not a team then it would have to be you by default

smiley's vote there

might

be an opportunistic bus? it's

really

weird how that wagon pivoted right at that moment, that doesn't look good on flowrbucket at

all

Except that there was a forecasted progression from me on HEM 647 and 685. I could've also unvoted after Hold's 736, but I kept my vote there to apply pressure and even made 741 afterwards.

[SmileyDude1]

i'm also looking at reads (685) and 799, and 866 while we're at it)

sd1 is not scumreading anyone in 685! not even hem, who is the closest of the two wagons! closest we have is a "scum side of null" to imply there's room for a town!hem world

Merlyn had moved themselves out of my scumread range, due to what I had felt had been quality recent posting. At that point, my reasoning for the scumlean on HEM was mostly due to a lack of reads on the gamestate so far from them and thus thought it appropriate to give more time for them to provide those before moving them down into scum territory

[SmileyDude1]

799 is also interesting now that hem flipped

smiley is insistent on hem + anyone being a viable pair and yet hadn't pushed for his elimination

I had pretty much from the beginning of day 3 forecasted my intention to vote for HEM, I spent that day phase taking another look at Leek and Hold (to determine if there was anything that had flown under my radar in regard to those two, cause otherwise it's just HEM/Flowr) and then looking at Non-HEM pairs to determine if there's a realistic solve that didn't include HEM, otherwise I just vote there). Most of that day was spent essentially ensuring that I wasn't engaging in a game-ending tunnel by sorting around HEM to determine if they were scum or not and I push them after I'm finished with that in my 931 and 965 making the latter part of your post slightly misleading.

It's almost 11 PM where i'm at and I have work in the morning so logging off for now, goodnight.

[SmileyDude1]

i'm also looking at reads (685) and 799, and 866 while we're at it)

sd1 is not scumreading anyone in 685! not even hem, who is the closest of the two wagons! closest we have is a "scum side of null" to imply there's room for a town!hem world

Merlyn had moved themselves out of my scumread range, due to what I had felt had been quality recent posting. At that point, my reasoning for the scumlean on HEM was mostly due to a lack of reads on the gamestate so far from them and thus thought it appropriate to give more time for them to provide those before moving them down into scum territory

what did you think about my and leek's reasons for voting hem then?

I thought that they were good reasons (it somewhat contributed to my opinion on Seven deteriorating), the reason that didn't play as much in my read of them later was due to me not sensing anything inherently wrong with HEM's defense of it at that time.

[SmileyDude1]

My PoE:
HEM-(Most likely for me at this point, though their recent posting has me worried that I might be off here (hence why they're not the only person in this PoE). It doesn't really match the vibe I'd expect from scum and while it's probably wrong for me to read too much into it, I can't help but be slightly paranoid.)

Cook- (Much less likely. As mentioned earlier, I think the only feasible solve that doesn't include HEM is a Hold/Cook solve. Based on play reasons, If I had to choose between the two i'd rather bet on Cook first over Hold (This mostly comes down to Cook's slot being relatively absent for most of the game and Hold being solid for most of the game, I like Cook's entrance here).

idk what to make of this

especially the "hem is making me paranoid that i'm wrong" i don't see where hem was town telling at that point so this could be like, a way to subtly shift sus onto cook

It was mainly this sequence that had raised doubts in my mind

yo so this is going to be the last newbie

thats so sad

i wish i didnt replace in lmao

honestly guys i wish i could do more

i still have work in the next 8 hours

i can probably rummage through the thread for answers later

HEM if you're town I honestly hope you're not like this every game

Not how SEs are supposed to act at all

no I'm not like this every game

it's poor timing for me

Given the position HEM was in at this time, a part of me was getting the vibes of town regretful that they didn't effort more to avoid a game losing-mislim, especially in light of this being the last newbie.

[SmileyDude1]

its doubt but doubt in a very different way than leek's doubt was presenting

are you thinking it's feigned doubt?

Not a fan of this post, it comes off as being more meant to stoke flames than anything else.

[SmileyDude1]

Cook, who would you say you're leaning towards right now in terms of other scum?

[SmileyDude1]

Cook, who would you say you're leaning towards right now in terms of other scum?

other scum is honestly you atp

Alright, so why do you think i'm scum then, would be interested in hearing your case.

this is pretty much a coinflip solve. we can take our time with it i think. it’s my job to make that coin as weighted as possible in favor of a scum lim

ten more days to figure out if the flame of the newbies is snuffed out or gets to burn down in peace

Also, you made this post at the beginning of the day, what changed from then to now for you to reach the point you're at

[SmileyDude1]

Cook why do you think its Smiley and Smiley are there any individual tells you think Cook would be scum or is it just interactions with HEM

I don't buy the scumread on me in Cook's 1153 from a progression standpoint. I don't see how they went from this take here

i TR leek
i null to scumread SD1
i scumread HEM but sd1 and HEM i don't think are partners
i TR THS unless something changed significantly betweeen d2 and d3
my slot is town and i haven't gotten a chance to see flowrbucket really play yet

To positing a fairly strong scumread (it's not like they said they lean towards me, they said they thought it was me in a manner that sounded pretty confident in my view) towards me given the interactions we've had since then. It comes off to me as less "genuine push towards someone they find scummy" and more "i'm pushing here due to being the path of least resistance".

I also don't like their progression in regards to you. This is one of their last posts from day 3

frankly i'm seeing THS/HEM as the pair? i need to read about 11 pages of content before i lock that in

the common theme seems to be hem across the four of us. i think it is helpful to try to draw out an associative on hem, up to your personal preference if you want to go for hem or want to try to kill a partner so that we 100% win d4

Despite holding this view entering day 4, they don't do anything with it. They don't really make any progression on this viewpoint (say recanting or expanding it for example). They don't posit any interrogative questions towards your slot, heck most of their interactions with you were them nudging your suspicion of me along, they haven't really asked any questions of your slot nor have they done any analysis towards you despite saying at the beginning of the day that it was a "coinflip" solve which on it's own is pretty weird.

[SmileyDude1]

Cook why do you think its Smiley and Smiley are there any individual tells you think Cook would be scum or is it just interactions with HEM

sd1 has not impressed me as far as helping to solve the game. his wishy-washiness on who scum could be feels very much so like trying to appeal to both sides, so that he can appear to be friendly to both (makes him less able to be voted) until one of the townies "slips". once they slip, he can reasonably convince the other one to vote the other one, hammer, and end the game right there.

and i think that's what's happening here

Except that I was arguably the first person to state my stance on who I thought scum was today in my 1115 (granted Hold posited 1079 during the end of day 3, but they stated doubt on that read in 1105 and 1106, reestablishing it in their 1120). It's funny that you accuse me of fence-sitting when that more so matches the track you took here. You only started pushing my slot after it became clear where both myself and Hold stand in regards to who we think is scum, and it's rather convenient that you fell on pushing me given the stances on the board at the time (With Hold thinking it's me, and myself thinking it's you), especially when you came into the day holding opinions that suggested the opposite.

It's also a misrep to say i'm not trying to solve the game given my 1107 and 1108 to begin the day as well as my 1116, and 1117 (which I never got an answer to) asking questions to both of you.

[SmileyDude1]

"i scumread HEM but sd1 and HEM i don't think are partners" to now is also a weird progression

yeah, my progression is weird, i know. i don't really care about what i've been thinking in the past, i'm caring about what i'm thinking right

now

, in 3p ELo, and also keep in mind i hadn't read d3 up to that point

The problem is what you're thinking right now is being influenced by your agenda. I don't think you naturally came to the conclusion that i'm scum given the interactions we had this day phase and your stances on me last day phase (You're reaching if you say my day 3 made that big of an difference btw. especially given your 1140). The sudden shift away from analyzing Hold (despite positing them as pair with HEM day 3) and towards pushing my slot feels ingenuine and reeks of opportunism.

I'm leaving for work now, will be back later

'

[SmileyDude1]

Ok, so we're approaching 2 days until deadline here. I've been thinking about the gamestate while I was at work today, and I think I'm ready to commit to a decision.

VOTE: Cook

I was mainly waiting to hear their case on me, in the off-chance they managed to assuage my concern about their read on me being fabricated upon doing so. After some thought, I've come to the conclusion that even if they managed to do so, I don't think it'd change the outcome of my vote here. It wouldn't change the lack of questioning or analysis from Cook towards Hold, and it wouldn't change the issue that Cook's stance in 1153 is overtly convenient for them to take given the positions stated in my 1115, and Hold's 1120.

Cook's play today matches up with how I'd expect scum in their position to play given the stances mentioned above. Note their posting after 1115 and 1120 are stated.
It's mostly turns away from legitimately solving the game and towards nudging my slot. Take these for example

here's my dilemma:

if i go off of partner interactions, it seems like it'd be cook

if i go off of individual tells, i lean smiley

has there been any sort of consistency with my slot being solveworthy? or is it more a "ehh this feels like some of the interactions are scummy and the consensus against everyone who's played it seems to indicate it's scum"

i'm hung up on 729 and 730 and hem and smiley pushing on each other yesterday because those are the things that seem to indicate they wouldn't be a team. and if they're not a team then it would have to be you by default

smiley's vote there

might

be an opportunistic bus? it's

really

weird how that wagon pivoted right at that moment, that doesn't look good on flowrbucket at

all

and yet look at the end of day 2. who's conspicuously missing from the end of this day?

it's flowrbucket and SD1

its doubt but doubt in a very different way than leek's doubt was presenting

are you thinking it's feigned doubt?

These are posts made with intent to manipulate instead of solving the game. Their 1128 suggests that my vote was a bus, which is followed up a post later with a VCA that doesn't really suggest that conclusion, yet, a post later in their 1130 they shoehorn in a reason to suspect that my vote was a bus. They also don't respond to my 1137 afterwards, almost as if they didn't care to take that in consideration when looking at whether it was a bus or not. Their 1147 is much more straightforward, that's just a blatant nudging question that they don't even try to hide behind any analysis. In ELO situations like these scum don't really care which of the other two players wind up being the mislim, they're just looking for the path of least resistance. Given my 1115 and Hold's 1120, a Scum!Cook's easiest path would be to abet Hold's stated suspicion of me, all you'd need to do is keep nudging along until Hold reaches critical mass and just commits a vote my way, and wouldn't you know it, that seems to be exactly what Cook has done this day phase. All of a sudden them completely dropping any facade towards sorting Hold despite their 1026 and 1102 make a lot of sense.

I feel Hold's approach today comparatively feels much more honest. Given my stated position in 1115, I might expect scum in Hold's position to attempt to hedge more towards both myself and Cook as it leaves the most avenues open for them. Instead their play this day phase has more so been spent looking at me, which is giving me that same energy I got from Leek towards Seven/HEM. I don't sense an alternative agenda in their posting today, and their play today matches the stances they've taken earlier in the game, they're more inquiring towards me because of their belief that my 675 was weird, and their general like of CCGeek (Cook slot originator). There's clear progression there and I don't get the sense that they're making stuff up in order to reach their conclusions. Combine this with what i've felt has been generally towny play throughout, and the non-partnery interactions with Seven/HEM (there'd be multiple points where Hold would be undercutting their partner if this was the team) and I don't think I can see myself voting Hold here at this point.



Hold, if you have any questions for me, shoot them my way and i'll get to it as soon as I can.

[SmileyDude1]

Ah, I see .

[SmileyDude1]

*Sigh*, yeah my reads were not good this game.

I take responsibility for the loss here

[SmileyDude1]

GG, Hold

Well played on your part

[SmileyDude1]

i think iamvh could have been a little more subtle with the doctor. that might have kept town PRs alive for a bit longer.

also town's dayplay was not helped by the fact the town as a whole had to read

nineteen separate people

over the course of the game.

four of those occupied mafia slots.
fifteen of them occupied town slots.

there was ultimately a lot more consistency on the mafia side than the town side

Just wanted to say shoutout to Alianna for their performance as a mod here btw, I imagine it was quite the hassle to find the amount of replacements they did, kudos to her for keeping this game moving.