Newbie 2129 - Postgame

[TheHoldSteady]

How are you all today

[TheHoldSteady]

wat

bad joke/troll, however you put it

also quite sussy to believe that the "you're under the arrest" part was a cop soft.

agree on this

HC WW FBI AGENT
(wish holo were here fr)

frfr

I TR jokes. When scum I find it hard to relax enough for jokes.

But BAD jokes on the other hand...

might be an SR

[TheHoldSteady]

I'll therefore be deciding this lim on how hard you make me laugh

[TheHoldSteady]

How are you all today

3-letter username acronym? Check.
Aesthetic(?) profile photo? Check.
LHF intro-post? Check.

Someone hold this man at wagonpoint, he seems to be a little too towny for it being this early into the game

The fruit will be low until I get back from vacay tomorrow

[TheHoldSteady]

At present, all I can say is: Brassherald and TheHoldSteady have made some impression on me already, I've played with Erinys before, and Clems is the reason I'm even in this game right now. Of the people who have spoken so far, I want to see Smileydude and Steve talk more because I have never played before with them and I need to get a grasp on their mannerisms. And of the two who haven't spoken; one is usually a lurky wildcard (KawaiiMikuStan) while the other is more grounded as both alignments (SlowthePoke).

Cool. Do you mind sharing what those impressions are?

The only person here I've played with was SmileyDude. I was on a scum team with him in my last game. So far he's acting very similar to how he did last game

Kawaii~! Anyway i hc vt uwu owo

This gimmick posting style annoys me. But Stan has been very active which while not necessarily alignment-indicative in the long run, is good to see for a first day town read

I want to see Smileydude and Steve talk more because I have never played before with them and I need to get a grasp on their mannerisms..

I didn't really have anything useful to say really. I also have quite a hard time deciphering some of the uwu/sms type posts.

also quite sussy to believe that the "you're under the arrest" part was a cop soft.

*rolls eyes*

Lets face it, that soft was too obvious
would I immediately spew pr team to scum.? nah

Take this exchange. It isn't actually 100% clear to me exactly what/who iavh is referring to as suss but the best I can figure is that iavh beleives it's scummy that I joked about "post 1 cop claim". OMGUS, maybe, but that seems really weird to me. No-one, especially not a rookie, is hunting for, or successfully, finding PR roles based off a jokey first post. Given I'm having to google acronyms from every other post it's possible I've misread the situation in which case I will happilly be corrected.

As for the rest of the thread, do I have genuinely useful town/scum reads? No, not really. There's nothing in the first four pages that jumps out to me as being very town or very scum.Three things of note in the thread so far for me though: Smiley's self post is.. weird.. even for RVS. And KawaiiMikuStan's posts just seem like a sort of deflection and iavh's overreaction to a joke.

This seems like a post town would make to me

Im parked on NV for now because we don't have much info yet, waiting for others to step up and lead town because im just.. just there. Im not the type of guy to lead town unless they're pr (which i am not)

I TR this as well

Anyway, I feel like someone in this heavy and looking conversation about PRs is probably the Mafia trying to get the PRs to out early and let me say that if you are a town PR do not out yourself, probably don't even try to crumb your role at this point just play your game.

If you're a Mafia PR, feel free to tell us what column we're in.

I kind of SR this post a bit. Like it reads a little performative towards being more upset about the PRs than I am. It seemed like an obvious joke to me.

ok no i actually like brassherald as the game has progressed, I want to see people look into this. VOTE: SmileyDude1

Agree that LuB's post about MagicalSteve being the town leader is apparently out of nowhere. Also people, this game so far is the reason you should never have multiple PS troll players in a single MS game.

SevenEyes, welcome! Give me the name of the person you like the most and the one you like the least right now, and we'll go from there.

I also like this post, particularly the question, because it shows me you're trying to solve and generate content

So my early impressions are Brass & Smiley potentially scum, Stan, Steve, Geek, potentially town. Still pretty early, could probably change my mind depending on how things develop

[TheHoldSteady]

Iavh/clem is towncore. That is all. Gn.

Can you do me a huge favor when you're referring to other players here can you all please use the usernames they have on the site. I don't know any of you and it makes it much easier to follow. I figured out that Iavh is Happy but I have no idea who clem is. Thanks

[TheHoldSteady]

So far MagicalSteve seems to be the town leader

-SNIP-
Hmmm, guess we're not in RVS anymore. Shame it was fun while it lasted.
-SNIP-

Ugh, now I actually have to try a bit
UNVOTE: SmileyDude1

In all seriousness I have to start getting ready for work right now, will inform you on where i'm at after my shift ends (probs in around 9-12 hours of this post)

So right now i'm getting fairly alright vibes from the majority of those who have posted so far. CCGeek gets town points for working to get the game out of RVS and I agree with Holdsteady's take on their 130.
MagicalSteve's 12, did originally ping as off for me, but their 86 made me feel a lot better about that slot.

I do have a couple of questions though

Clem thoughts on the people on nv fr

Actually yk lemme just put some pressure on this slot, yk? VOTE: [/Brassherald]

I'm not following this progression, Can you elaborate KawaiiMikuStan?

-SNIP
The only person here I've played with was SmileyDude. I was on a scum team with him in my last game. So far he's acting very similar to how he did last game
-SNIP-

What similarities are you seeing?

You played decent that game, just couldn't overcome replacing into a sussed slot with several strong town players. So it's not so much you had scum tells that are carrying over here. It's more like, if I didn't already know your alignment that game and you put them side to side with this one I wouldn't be able to tell many differences. Your general demeanor and attitude seems to be the same to me

I will say that since you made that post it seems like you've become more proactive, which is good. I thought last game you tended to play pretty emotionally at times

[TheHoldSteady]

^ Just for future reference if you click the "Isolate Users" button it shows you everyone's pronouns

I just figured that out myself and thought it was pretty neat

[TheHoldSteady]

Hello people, I exist (probably), someone talk to me about the fact that we are halfway through day 1 and 2 people have non-existent ISOs.

I've got a 13 hour road trip today so I won't have time, but give me until tomorrow and I'll reread closely and do an ISO

[TheHoldSteady]

Man. I'm just struggling to get my brain to work here.

Spoiler: BrassHerald

All posts up to #113 seemed to be just RVS stage light joking. Seemed to come in with a loose and relaxed attitude, but otherwise not seeing much to go off of there.

I already said #113 was sus and upon rereading I’m still gonna stand by that.

So far MagicalSteve seems to be the town leader

Also, this feels like an attempt at pocketing.

Hmmm, guess we're not in RVS anymore. Shame it was fun while it lasted.

VOTE: Kawaii

This seems like you’re voting without solving to accompany it

Posts #171-173: BrassHerald keeps pushing that "why did you self vote" thing which reminds me of scum looking for an easy target. CCGeek voted Smiley already in #130 and Eyes posted an FoS in #164. So this could be opportunistic of that.

BrassHerald hasn't posted since 173.

Spoiler: SmileyDude1

Okay but actual question, how do we proceed from here?

Given that we're approaching 4 days until deadline we should probably start consolidating so we have time for claims and discussion. I have to leave for work in a second, but i'll be back later to discuss.

I agree

I literally said not to push your self vote and then just agreed with another person on your answer to it being weird.

Commenting on the game state is a normal way to play the game. Weird isn't even a push. It's just weird. Town can be weird.

I think I may have misinterpreted your 154 as saying that both my self-vote and self criticism was weird in isolation when you meant that they were weird put together. The former didn't really make sense since you defended the self-vote earlier, the latter is a fair point

And why are you counting out high princess, the literal one I was agreeing with it being weird with?

My reasoning on this mainly stems that they're suspicion came before I had actually explained my actions and so I understood why my actions up to that point would be seen as weird out of context, the two posts mentioned in 170 came after I had already explained and felt dogpiley (probs not the right word for it, but alas) to me.

Though given the misunderstanding UNVOTE: BrassHerald
VOTE: SevenEyes

So after rereading, I think SmileyDude shows a thorough and articulate thought process and is asking relevant questions. In particular, like posts #146, #169, #186.

Spoiler: SevenEyes

SevenEyes

i feel like the game's still a bit slow atp, since we dont hav much info and we are kinda just resorting to pointing fingers at each other? correct me if im wrong though.

This seems like something an inexperienced town would say.

Yeah so Seven could be town off of that one post but overall is almost completely null to me. With only five posts there just isn’t much there to go off of.

[TheHoldSteady]

VOTE: BrassHerald

[TheHoldSteady]

Also this is a good time to start looking at backup choices for a lim because if we change our minds about Herald's slot we don't want to be stuck trying to figure out who else with just hours left in the day

So, who else?

[TheHoldSteady]

-Snip-

So far MagicalSteve seems to be the town leader

Also, this feels like an attempt at pocketing.

Hmmm, guess we're not in RVS anymore. Shame it was fun while it lasted.

VOTE: Kawaii

This seems like you’re voting without solving to accompany it

-Snip-

Can you expand on this accusation? I’m not sure what else he was supposed to accompany with it?

Sure. So what I'm looking for at this point of the game is substantial town play; logical thought processes and genuine efforts to make town reads and find the scum. As a stand alone comment, I don't think there's anything wrong with it that a town wouldn't make. But in Brassherald's ISO, I'm not seeing the substantial town play that I'm looking for. I'm just seeing point and accuses.

For example, maybe saying "Steve seems to be the town leader" does seem like pocketing? But what I would do afterwards is look to see if there's a pattern of pocketing emerging, or if pocketing Steve leads closer to scum Kawaii achieving his goals today. But he didn't do that. It comes across to me as surface level scum hunting.

[TheHoldSteady]

apologies for inactivity. i agree with magicalsteve on this one- after brassheralds vote reached e-1, got unhammered, and you got replaced in, you're really trying to flip the case to immediately target someone else ... idk ... if anything the vibes are off ...

if your slot was at e1 the day before you can and should try to flip the case. it benefits you regardless of alignment.

[TheHoldSteady]

Bulge raises good points about Steve. Maybe I was about to be fooled

[TheHoldSteady]

I don't agree with a scumread on CCGeek though

[TheHoldSteady]

He's had more substansive reads than Seven and BrassHerald does / did, such as post 51

[TheHoldSteady]

Maybe not as substantial as I remembered before I rechecked the ISO but IDK I also appreciated the urgency to ask people to declare hammer (something I forgot to do) I still lean slightly town

[TheHoldSteady]

I’m having real trouble finding anything to go after this game not, and that’s usually my tactic.

After this game not? What does that mean?

[TheHoldSteady]

Does anyone have any thoughts on just making the hammer? Seems like there’s gonna be a replacement anyway. Could just save all the hassle?

I've been thinking about this post and wonder if this line would come from Steve being scum and being worried about his partner being limmed. Thus trying to hastily hurry the hammer onto someone else. Just a wild theory but even if that's not the case, this is a really weird post to come from town. Especially since he had just unvoted to prevent a hammer.

[TheHoldSteady]

I don't agree with a scumread on CCGeek though

im seeing a lot of interaction with the thread itself rather than interacting with the game if that makes sense? like he'll comment on things people have said but is not offering a lot of original thought or analysis.

He's had more substansive reads than Seven and BrassHerald does / did, such as post 51

Maybe not as substantial as I remembered before I rechecked the ISO but IDK I also appreciated the urgency to ask people to declare hammer (something I forgot to do) I still lean slightly town

51 is nothing, 185 is a little better. the e-1 thing also means nothing to me.

idk this could all easily be playstyle but the surface-level interactions stood out to me

51 to me had good scope. It showed that he was at least looking at all the players.

The E-1 thing isn't the biggest deal, scum can say it too, but it is something that a town would want to take note of

[TheHoldSteady]

steve's 86 and 210 look a bit like forced content to me. plus im getting a somewhat nervous vibe from steve, between 86's "i don't have anything useful to say" followed by the most substantive post of the game at the time, and the apologies for inactivity which dont really vibe w the gamestate imo (not moving very fast, mostly shitposts, and steve was never really absent)

agreed on that

What about 86 and 210 seem forced? I'm looking but not seeing it

[TheHoldSteady]

Agreed that Steve seems nervous

[TheHoldSteady]

I'm just waiting for Steve to post so I can decide between him, Bulge, and SevenEyes

[TheHoldSteady]

Actually, I'm leaning towards Steve at the moment because I like Bulge more than I liked Herald and I don't think the argument for voting SevenEyes is good

[TheHoldSteady]

I want to see people look into this. VOTE: SmileyDude1

Also personally feel this is not a useful vote right now? Smiley feels the type to sort themselves out in due time.

Can you expand on this?

Really just vibes. Seeing what they do in the absence of attention might be better than if there's attention on them but that's just my pet theory. Game is still very slow and lurky in general.

Princess (CS's predecessor) subbed out not that long after the RVS stage ended and I don't see much in its ISO to go off. But I don't like this post. Its almost like saying in a different sort of way, "hey guys, stop advancing the game, maybe its better to just back off and do nothing." Scum will benefit more from a slow, quiet game than town does, because slow and quiet leads to less information to go off of.

Which leads to...

I’m having real trouble finding anything to go after this game not, and that’s usually my tactic.

vs.

Okay but actual question, how do we proceed from here?

Hello people, I exist (probably), someone talk to me about the fact that we are halfway through day 1 and 2 people have non-existent ISOs.

y'all playing mafia? or do I play with myself?

I TR CCGeek more than CS because I see CC at least trying to advance the game (and I also appreciate your posts here for similar reasons), not just saying they don't have anything. Otherwise, not a whole lot of content from them to go off

[TheHoldSteady]

also quite sussy to believe that the "you're under the arrest" part was a cop soft.

*rolls eyes*

Lets face it, that soft was too obvious
would I immediately spew pr team to scum.? nah

Take this exchange. It isn't actually 100% clear to me exactly what/who iavh is referring to as suss but the best I can figure is that iavh beleives it's scummy that I joked about "post 1 cop claim". OMGUS, maybe, but that seems really weird to me. No-one, especially not a rookie, is hunting for, or successfully, finding PR roles based off a jokey first post. Given I'm having to google acronyms from every other post it's possible I've misread the situation in which case I will happilly be corrected.

As for the rest of the thread, do I have genuinely useful town/scum reads? No, not really. There's nothing in the first four pages that jumps out to me as being very town or very scum.Three things of note in the thread so far for me though: Smiley's self post is.. weird.. even for RVS. And KawaiiMikuStan's posts just seem like a sort of deflection and iavh's overreaction to a joke.

This seems like a post town would make to me

Can you explain this?

Sorry I missed this earlier. I townread it the first time I read it because I thought admitting to mistakes was townie


However, I think by adding more context to it that I glossed over the first time, Bulge made a viable point about it in #356 and upon re-reading the post in question, maybe I was wrong about it being townie

[TheHoldSteady]

Apologies I messed up the post tab and somehow linked to a 20-year-old poll. Still trying to figure out how this site's formatting works.

[TheHoldSteady]

CS and SevenEyes just feel like LHF lims. What do we even learn if they flip town?

UNVOTE: The Bulge

VOTE: MagicalSteve

This vote places MagicalSteve at E-1. Please declare intention to hammer before voting him again.

[TheHoldSteady]

Would be nice to get a claim but I don't think Steve is coming back. Might as well hammer.

[TheHoldSteady]

THS more towny than scum but please play more

I'll try my best

[TheHoldSteady]

i did not expect iavh to flip as town doctor, but now that we don't have a doctor, we'll probably have to make our decisions more carefully

Huh. What made you not expect iavh to flip doctor?

[TheHoldSteady]

TheHoldSteady slightly + scum, due to eventually winding up on the wagon despite liking the Steve slot earlier in the game. They do show progression towards voting the slot over the course of the day, though it does feel interesting, (To be fair I am guilty of doing this same thing, would probs place myself here if I wasn't working from FMPOV)

We gave Steve ample time of over a day to respond to the wagon but for whatever reason he didn't do so.

But I like your approach...what we can do from here is, look closely at who was on that wagon and their reasons for doing so. Also look at who was avoiding the wagon and their reasons for doing so because scum can also avoid wagons they don't need to join to make themselves look better for the next day

I don't think Leeks reasons for avoiding the wagon were particularly substantial for example

[TheHoldSteady]

I'm more than happy to soak up a bit of pressure. If town decides I'm to get yeeted so be it. But it'd be great to actually be yeeted for something actually scummy.

i wasnt worried about a claim, this isn't something a tpr would say

I'm thinking a lot about this comment in hindsight of the night one kill. It's apparent you may have already had a grasp on who PRs were, but I'm not certain this is a comment that scum would want to make

[TheHoldSteady]

I have a question for everyone, do you think scum tends to Townlean or Scumlean their PRRead during the day?

I don't know really

Why do you ask?

[TheHoldSteady]

"I don't think Leeks reasons for avoiding the wagon were particularly substantial for example"

How weren't they? I made numerous posts on it.

And I think it's not precise to describe my actions as "avoiding the wagon" - I wanted to change it.

I stand by it being LHF to vote off a player for being inactive and difficult to read instead of aiming for a scumread

[TheHoldSteady]

Damn. Well, thanks for providing parting thoughts. Hope you feel better soon

[TheHoldSteady]

THS if you scumread me then discuss with me

always a benefit for the town

what's your readlist?

TRs: Smiley, Bulge, CCGeek

I'm hoping scum is between you, CS, and SevenEyes

[TheHoldSteady]

Not so much I scumread you though just POE

[TheHoldSteady]

i did not expect iavh to flip as town doctor, but now that we don't have a doctor, we'll probably have to make our decisions more carefully

that was a weird post

I agree, which is why I asked her to clarify what she meant.

VOTE: SevenEyes

[TheHoldSteady]

Everyone has ignored Seven (Geek and Bulge ignored in their posts, Smiley did as well until asked otherwise) except for Leek who is constantly focusing in. It's not adding up. Possible that Seven could be scum with a more experienced player as a partner covering up.

[TheHoldSteady]

TRs: Smiley, Bulge, CCGeek

I'm more or less TRing them too, who do you think could be the potential plot twist here?

by accident I've seen Smiley's game on this site (I think it was a debut?) as scum and he won it in ELO and was praised for his skill by top players

kinda worried me

Like I said, I wonder if a more experienced player could be covering for a scum SevenEyes

It wouldn't be SevenEyes and CS but SevenEyes and Bulge or Smiley, or even you

The doc assassination night one seems to be hinting at a more experienced scum player

I saw that game too and I had similar thoughts, like what if he's just really good at scum and is pulling the wool over our eyes

I was actually scum partners with Smiley in 2126. He played decent but had subbed into a sussed slot and couldn't shake it off

Going into a Zoom meeting now but I'll try to sneak on at work later

[TheHoldSteady]

Dead ass game

[TheHoldSteady]

CS and SevenEyes just feel like LHF lims. What do we even learn if they flip town?

UNVOTE: The Bulge

VOTE: MagicalSteve

This vote places MagicalSteve at E-1. Please declare intention to hammer before voting him again.

Who’s at E-1?

I am, will you hammer?

Seems like you should be claiming this close to deadline?

If CS and Seven are a scum team together they would've had to have just gotten very lucky last night, because I'm just not seeing a high level of play with these posts

[TheHoldSteady]

Otherwise CS is completely null to me. Most of his content is just coming in and agreeing with what others have already said

[TheHoldSteady]

Civil Scum + scum as looking through their ISo they were pretty flip-floppy in regards to the Steve slot, they support the case in 257 then unvote in 267
they later shade Steve in their EBWOP in 405 only to justify their happy vote a few posts later in 416 saying that nobody made a compelling case for a lim. This topped off with their opinion on the Steve slot in 427 saying they lean scum on the slot despite not feeling that the case on them was compelling. I'm getting conflicting messages from their stance on Steve and it does ping me a bit.

Anyways I got to go for now (this was a home post that turned into a work post)

In regards to 257 and 267: By itself, you can vote and change your mind, its probably slightly townie indicative to me just because I'd slightly expect scum to be a bit more deliberate.

But in conjunction with later on it starts to not make much sense. CS even said "there's no great case" when he himself pointed out reasons to sus Steve earlier. But like you pointed out, CS says "maybe he's slightly scum" in 427. It does read a bit to me like scum trying to wishy-washily ease off a town lim to make themselves look better

I'd like CS to explain more why he eventually changed his mind and voted for Happy instead.

[TheHoldSteady]

i did not expect iavh to flip as town doctor, but now that we don't have a doctor, we'll probably have to make our decisions more carefully

Huh. What made you not expect iavh to flip doctor?

SevenEyes has requested replacement.

I have a question for everyone, do you think scum tends to Townlean or Scumlean their PRRead during the day?

I don't know really

Why do you ask?

CCGeek has requested replacement.

Reminder that replacement requests must be handled privately and that it is against the rules to discuss replacing out in the game thread.

Civil Scum + scum as looking through their ISo they were pretty flip-floppy in regards to the Steve slot, they support the case in 257 then unvote in 267
they later shade Steve in their EBWOP in 405 only to justify their happy vote a few posts later in 416 saying that nobody made a compelling case for a lim. This topped off with their opinion on the Steve slot in 427 saying they lean scum on the slot despite not feeling that the case on them was compelling. I'm getting conflicting messages from their stance on Steve and it does ping me a bit.

Anyways I got to go for now (this was a home post that turned into a work post)

In regards to 257 and 267: By itself, you can vote and change your mind, its probably slightly townie indicative to me just because I'd slightly expect scum to be a bit more deliberate.

But in conjunction with later on it starts to not make much sense. CS even said "there's no great case" when he himself pointed out reasons to sus Steve earlier. But like you pointed out, CS says "maybe he's slightly scum" in 427. It does read a bit to me like scum trying to wishy-washily ease off a town lim to make themselves look better

I'd like CS to explain more why he eventually changed his mind and voted for Happy instead.

Civil Scum has not picked up his prod and is being replaced.

Mayb I should just stop asking questions because it seems like every time I do they leave the game

[TheHoldSteady]

Oh hey I have something going on this weekend

I don't need V/LA, but I wanted to give you all plenty of notice that I won't be around much since Sunday is EOD

[TheHoldSteady]

good evening ladies and gentlemen

could someone give me a rundown to help me catch up faster, that would be wonderful

Significant Events (there's a good chance i'll have missed something worthy of mentioning. Anyone feel free to add on to this list)

-Early interactions between IAVH and MagicalSteve, with the former suspecting the latter for rolefishing due to their 12, which Steve responds to in their 86

-Early suspicion launched towards me due to what was seen as a weird self-vote followed by weird self-criticism which I respond toshortly after

-BrassHerald getting put to E-1 midway during day 1 before The Bulge replaces them

-The Bulge's 253 casing MagicalSteve, who responds only partially in the subsequent posts afterwards leading to the day 1 elim, flips Green

-Happy flips Doctor after being nightkilled. With their early game softing being the general consensus upon the reasoning

The slots under the most suspicion right now are your slot (For being generally low content and having a weird progression towards the Happy slot that looks bad given the slot flipped PR), and the Civil Scum slot (For having inconsistent viewpoints on the MagicalSteve slot during the EoD)

-

What do you think about what I said in 481 and 490 about a CS and SevenEyes team not being viable

Leek +town based on general vibes from yesterday as well as

being the main resistance to Steve lim day 1

I really don't know if being the main resistance to Steve lim day 1 is as town as you're making it out to be

Its convenient that he wanted to lim two nothingness slots where there wouldn't have been any information

I would've done the same thing as scum

[TheHoldSteady]

Its easy to be scum and say "hey look, you all voted off a townie. I didn't" if you didn't need the votes

[TheHoldSteady]

230 I just didn't want a repeat of game 2126 where the day one lim was decided very late and everyone was scrambling and ended up voting off a town

Also Brass was the only scum candidate at that point so I wanted us to look at other players so we had a wider selection of reads

The Bulge replaced Brassherald, SmarzLeek replaced KawaiiMikuStan

Thanks for the post, I'll respond more and post a read list when I have more time tomorrow

[TheHoldSteady]

wow the replacing sure did wake this game up again

[TheHoldSteady]

Spoiler: SmileyDude1

I like 337
395 gives reads that have a pretty consistent logic with what he’s posted up until now with one exception, I’ll note it down below
400 Yep, I remember having a similar thought at this point in time.

TheHoldSteady slightly + scum, due to eventually winding up on the wagon despite liking the Steve slot earlier in the game. They do show progression towards voting the slot over the course of the day, though it does feel interesting, (To be fair I am guilty of doing this same thing, would probs place myself here if I wasn't working from FMPOV)

This was a really strange thing to say. “I’m marking you down for doing the same thing I’m doing, even though I’m town and did the exact same thing” ???

Smiley hardly even mention Leek day 1 but then emerged in 337 with a post that said “not limming him today” and then followed by a solid townread in 454 for kind of weak reasons and even putting him on top of his townreads in 494. Reasoning for the townread in 510 is slightly better but I still don’t agree with it, Leek has mostly popped up just to complain about inactivity and then leave again

517 yeah makes sense to me

Still leaning town for a mostly consistent and thoroughly-stated development of reads and productive scumhunting, but admittedly not as strongly as I did before

[TheHoldSteady]

Spoiler: Leek

I have my doubts about Steve, but I don't think it is a good day 1 lim since they're providing content and post their thoughts

not even true he completely disappeared when we asked him to respond to allegations

we lim Steven: Seven keeps her laconic plastyle and doesn't generate content

we lim Seven: Steven provides more content, maybe we get some info regarding his partner, maybe we can change our mind about him

that’s one way of looking at it but actually there’s much more to discuss / we have discussed now about Steve’s lim than there would’ve been if we limmed a town SevenEyes

bulge seemed very stubborn and adamant to lim Steve - that's towny, but I don't like how Bulge looks narrowly at the game, most of their (can you setup pronouns, Bulge?) iso concerns Steve, needs very close observation

Anyway, I'm irritated with Steve lim and him flipping green. Now I want people who said we'll get precious "content" from that lim to tell us what exactly we're getting from that

I think the Bulge said that? I expect deeper analyses, since according to you this would be such a beneficial lim.

the Bulge showed great stubbornness in limming Steve and that's towny

Here’s a 180 on the Bulge, from “its not deep enough its scum” immediately to “its stubborn, its townie”

I have to fill out a ton of paperwork so I might not have time to do much more of this. I kind of scum read both those slots Monkey/Seven and Leek but at this point a scumteam between them would just be ridiculous play

[TheHoldSteady]

Merlyn kind of just made a long post throwing rocks that turn to dust when you grab a hold of them. I kind of SR her

[TheHoldSteady]

"This was a really strange thing to say. “I’m marking you down for doing the same thing I’m doing, even though I’m town and did the exact same thing” ???"

this is an interesting thing theory wise

I'll try to explain it in english the best I can

so one of the best players in my community claims such" hypocrisy" is not really hypocrisy

it's actually a benefit for a townie, because if you see someone is doing something sus (even though you do it too), you can narrow down the suspects

eg. if you were lurking as a townie and two other people would be lurking too, you have it easier than the rest of the town to narrow down the scummy lurkers, because you have to choose from two, not from there

so such "hypocrisy" like Smiley has shown is not inherently scummy in my opinion

of course you might disagree, just sharing this thought, hope it makes some sense the way I explained it

sure

[TheHoldSteady]

do you want me to clarify so my post makes more sense and so that we can communicate better?
or do you just want to portray me as nonsense so you can continue pushing me

would love to see some reads from you not just casing seveneyes

[TheHoldSteady]

oh, hi bulge iu rememebr youf rom that one game we played together

when you read the thread or ISO bulge please let us know if there's any comparison

would love to see who you think is partner if you're right that seven / monkey is scum slot

[TheHoldSteady]

and if you're wrong who is it instead

[TheHoldSteady]

Otherwise CS is completely null to me. Most of his content is just coming in and agreeing with what others have already said

what makes that a null-read to you?

good point

[TheHoldSteady]

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

[TheHoldSteady]

I generally liked CCGeek. I thought he was raising good points, pushing the game forward. The only thing I would have against him is that he didn't commit to pushing a lim for day one. He said he scumread you but he didn't commit to it for lim, just kind of hung back and let us lim Steve without giving any input.

Patchwork there's been no development, he went on VLA almost immediately and has hardly posted. Stuff happens sometimes so its NAI but unfortunate for us we don't have more material to read him for

[TheHoldSteady]

them* I am so sorry, almost everyone here was he/him before the replacements. My deepest apologies.

[TheHoldSteady]

I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.

First the self-vote and now suggesting yourself as someone to look into... Weird.

This feels very forced

Princess (CS's predecessor) subbed out not that long after the RVS stage ended and I don't see much in its ISO to go off. But I don't like this post. 138. Its almost like saying in a different sort of way, "hey guys, stop advancing the game, maybe its better to just back off and do nothing." Scum will benefit more from a slow, quiet game than town does, because slow and quiet leads to less information to go off of.

I forgot how sketchy Princess came across in its short time in this game. Then CS replaced and was just as sketchy

[TheHoldSteady]

about 52 hrs left btw

[TheHoldSteady]

2 guys have asked me about my Bulge read

well my townlean for Bulge comes from their stance at Steve's lim

scum rarely lims and innocent person in such way that they're so confident

I wanted to change the wagon and Bulge was adamantly like "there's no time for a new wagon" - how bold move of a scum that would be?

and also the "I'm gonna get murdered!!!" circus, what scum draws the attention to themselves in such way?

Normally I'd agree but you know what

He replaced into a slot that was just on E-1

Might've just been a hail mary given the circumstances

[TheHoldSteady]

can someone else read Merlyn's case on Smiley thoroughly? clicking the links Merlyn provides, comparing what Merlyn says VS what Smiley says

cause it seems a bit farfetched to me, and I want to see other opinions regarding that

I'm trying to but I don't see it so far. in my reread of Smiley he was mainly consistent throughout

[TheHoldSteady]

it's a weird thing to do in bad faith. i mean why come in and push on who up until then was the most universally town read player

[TheHoldSteady]

smiley has been sort of wishy washy on ccgeek, went from the highest townread to a scumread back into a townread again

[TheHoldSteady]

one reason i townread smiley heavily is because i feel like we've had similar thoughts on the same situations at several points throughout the game

like 454 said something similar to what i said in 641 and i didn't even realize it at first

since i have my own mindset to work from the fact that someone shares the same as me is very telling

[TheHoldSteady]

THS, where are your thoughts at right now? Who's in your limpool?

TRs Smiley & The Bulge
Liked CCGeek day one but need more content from Patchwork
I'm kind of coming around to Leek now too, I like all the questions

Your previous two slots were sketch, and while I think you're good enough to cover for them, two sketch slots in a row is a lot of slots

SevenEyes didn't do much, but Monkey isn't doing much either. Was weird about IAVH slot. Saying SevenEyes was

oh so townie

after 8-9 posts feels like a stretch. Leaning scum.

I'm about the viability of CS + SevenEyes as a team and I'm double checking everyone else's ISOs to make sure.

[TheHoldSteady]

"highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek"

yeah this caught my eye too back then, almost everyone got scum points for Steve's lim but at least there was a differentiation there, some got less some got more scum points

When making that original list I was thinking more so from the perspective of "If I was a neutral observer of that day 1 how would I feel about the players post flip". I think in reality as a player in this game, i'd probably say that the progressions myself and TheHoldSteady made seemed genuine and non-malicious. Though if I were reading the game and not participating in it i'd likely find it notable that both of the aforementioned slots progressed from liking the Steve slot to agreeing to eliminate it. These are two slots that in retrospect probably would've been better marked as neutral, though I had felt that it may have came off as disingenuous of me to do that at the time

What why

Just share your thoughts

Why would any town worry about coming across as disingenuous

[TheHoldSteady]

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

that's exactly what I'd expect you to say if you're scum because it means you're aware that it might make you look good to admit that you were untruthful

gdi

need to think about this more

[TheHoldSteady]

nothing else to add really

[TheHoldSteady]

nothing else to add really

your thoughts on merlyn vs smiley discussion?

have you checked the thread for potential merlyn + monkey pairing?

I'd prefer Merlyn while my town read on Smiley isn't as strong anymore id like to give him at least another day
Merlyn replaced two sus slots so I don't trust her

Merlyn replaced CS and SevenEyes Monkey right? I've said it a bunch of times already I don't think those two were competent enough to hit Doc and they would've had to have gotten extremely lucky or had a more experienced scum partner

[TheHoldSteady]

Merlyn or Monkey + Smiley is where I'm leaning right now but I really want more time to gage Smiley

[TheHoldSteady]

Merlyn + Smiley team seems incredulous at first but with one PR dead I'm not ruling out the possibility of a bus

[TheHoldSteady]

Merlyn you seem a lot more aggressive here than that last game we played. I don't know what to make of it.

[TheHoldSteady]

2.03

Votecount 2.03

humaneatingmonkey (E-2): TheHoldSteady, SzmarzLeek
The Bulge (1): Merlyn

Not Voting (4): patchwork, humaneatingmonkey, The Bulge, SmileyDude1

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-08-27 21:29:34).

i think this is current

[TheHoldSteady]

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

how would you answer "hey, your list where you give almost everyone some scum points for Steve's lim is a bit weird" accusation if you played as a scum here?

Likely with some spiel about relativity (Something like, "I think it's fair to doc points from everyone a slight bit, given the near consensus on the day 1 flip though there is some nuance to my list. I docced more points from those who I felt may have jumped on opportunistically over genuine reasoning).

The above would likely have played better for a hypothetical Scum!Me then what my actual answer was.

[TheHoldSteady]

i'm going to be gone all morning tomorrow and won't have much time before eod what do you want to do

[TheHoldSteady]

fine w/ me

whoever votes next please declare intent before hammer

[TheHoldSteady]

VOTE: Merlyn

quoting for tag

[TheHoldSteady]

patchwork has requested replacement.

The deadline is being reset to 48 hours and will be frozen until a replacement is found.

in that case i'll just take the extra time

UNVOTE: HumanEatingMonkey

[TheHoldSteady]

ikr, 8 replacements

[TheHoldSteady]

I had a crazy day y'all and I'm exhausted

You all know what my reads are though

[TheHoldSteady]

new addition just placed someone at E-1 and tried to brush it off as inconsequential, "oh just ignore me" "all i did was skim"

I don't like it

[TheHoldSteady]

I'm retracting the TR I had on CCGeek tbh

[TheHoldSteady]

Seven got replaced by monkey who hasn't really shown any decent activity or progression, felt like they mostly wanted to defend themselves

So weird to me

When I look at Monkey's experience level I just expect so much more you know

His ISO almost reads like he doesn't actually want to be here

[TheHoldSteady]

Going to ISO Merlyn and then I'll probably make a decision

[TheHoldSteady]

Spoiler: Merlyn

Town vibes here:
SzmarzLeek
humaneatingmonkey

How

Not feeling the town-ness:
SmileyDude1
The Bulge

Merlyn basically reread the game, came up with reads and then tunneled into these two players the rest of the day. I don’t like this way of obtaining reads because there’s no evidence of reading based off interactions whatsoever. It comes across as premeditated: ‘here’s who I’m pushing, and I’m going to keep pushing them instead of genuinely trying to solve’

113 was bad I don’t believe you thought that was a good town post

So you have time for this post and the one after but not for a readslist

SmileyDude has been posting read lists quite consistently so this comes across to me as baseless accusatoriness

I find seven's posts to be pretty town- I see evidence of attempts to solve there. I've glanced over what humaneatingmonkey has written since this post, and it did instill some doubt in me- I'll address that to them in a second.

Merlyn and CS both defended the SevenEyes slot for similar reasons, could lend evidence to them being a team together

Bulge hasn't played today the way he did yesterday:
I think Bulge played a big role in stopping his own impending the setting up a town lim in it's place- is it possible that Bulge is town and was just looking for someone else? Sure!
But I would expect a town!Bulge to keep scumhunting with today, given how yesterday felt and I haven't seen it. Ultimately I placed my vote coming into the game asking for this exact thing and haven't gotten it.
I've asked folks what makes them tr Bulge and I don't agree with the reasons given so far.
I'm looking for something to make me reconsider the slot and haven't gotten it yet.
Smiley is inconsistent to me:
395he has 4 townreads and 4 scumreads. 419 and and [post]425 make it clear that he is considering my slot a potential scum partner of Steve if Steve flips read.
in D2 454,he says ''here's what I learned from the flip' and highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek. Doesn't bring up that he was looking at CS as a Steve partner. Doesn't reconsider based on the fact that Steve was town. Keeps CS as his main scumread.
In 467, he votes for CS. The two reasons he puts up are: 1) he is basing it off a theory that Bulge has based on vote count analysis that Holdsteady/CS are the scum team and 2) 'an effort to get the game moving again'. Those are both pretty light reasons to vote someone, especially when your latest read says you suspect everyone but one person.
494 are updated reads- Bulge and THS have moved back up into town territory. No explanation why.

what about 311, 313, 314, 315, and 332? There's...kind of a lot of posts sussing Steve.

I like these posts from Merlyn more than the earlier posts

This kind of overthinking is not a towny trait

Could you explain more what you mean by this

After reviewing, Merlyn + Smiley feels a lot more like scum vs. town than town vs. town. I think in conjunction with the two previous slots, there's a good chance that Merlyn flips scum here. Still don't know what to make of the Monkey slot. I'm good with either lim, leaning towards Merlyn because I think the case is slightly more robust but if anyone has a good case for doing HEM instead I'm willing to listen

[TheHoldSteady]

I didn't say you had no progression of reads

[TheHoldSteady]

that's a big jump though for monkey to be your top2 town reads (and Seven being pretty towny) to wanting to hammer them

Leek do you still think HEM is a better lim than Merlyn? I think there's a good chance she flips scum. I can place either one at e1 in my current position but you've basically become the town leader so I would like to get your up-to-date perspective first

[TheHoldSteady]

intending to hammer Merlyn

[TheHoldSteady]

VOTE: Merlyn

[TheHoldSteady]

Was not expecting to see The Bulge slot flip night 2 (thought it was going to be a Leek kill if I had to guess). Going to need some time to think if there are any ramifications on such a kill (beyond PR hunting).

I think we're all aware of the situation that we find ourselves in at this point, but just in case.

We are in ELO. One incorrect vote ends the game as it allows scum an opportunity to quick hammer. As such, do not commit a vote unless you are ready to bet the game on that vote being correct.

Coming back to this, the composition of this final 5 is interesting to me. It means if the solve is not exactly HEM/Flowr then I'm wrong on at least one of Leek/Hold. Will probs take another look at those two slots again when I have time after I get back from work (typing these up as i'm getting ready), though my initial thought is that it'd more likely be Hold out of the aforementioned pair due to my memory of their generally being more actions that could've been scum motivated from Hold than Leek.

I'm wondering if this game is straightforward enough for their to not be deepscum present.

FMPOV an HEM/Flowr solve feels like the most straightforward solve (To the point where im getting slight pings from it being "too easy").

Though if you're looking at it from the POV of others, depending on one's perspective they may also be considering me which feels like it sufficient complicates things for a hypothetical HEM/Flowr pairing.

I've got to go for now. When I get back i'll probs take another scan of the game and see what additional questions arise

I was thinking this all day yesterday about a CS/SevenEyes solve and I'm really regretting not sticking to my guns on that

[TheHoldSteady]

i was busy. you'll understand if it was your nth mafia game in the newbies as a replacement. see how engaged you will be when you're on the chopping block and you're VT anyway

I read your ISO yesterday and all I thought was that this person doesn't seem like they want to be here at all. So your reason collaborates with that.

[TheHoldSteady]

But why do you find motivation now with town in ELO and two dead PRs.

[TheHoldSteady]

Smiley did you do the same partner thing for Bulge / Drew last night and just cut them out of your post or what.

[TheHoldSteady]

The fact that he did the same thing in a previous game as scum is worrisome. But as for being overzealous, let me think on that for a while

[TheHoldSteady]

"highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek"

yeah this caught my eye too back then, almost everyone got scum points for Steve's lim but at least there was a differentiation there, some got less some got more scum points

When making that original list I was thinking more so from the perspective of "If I was a neutral observer of that day 1 how would I feel about the players post flip". I think in reality as a player in this game, i'd probably say that the progressions myself and TheHoldSteady made seemed genuine and non-malicious. Though if I were reading the game and not participating in it i'd likely find it notable that both of the aforementioned slots progressed from liking the Steve slot to agreeing to eliminate it. These are two slots that in retrospect probably would've been better marked as neutral, though I had felt that it may have came off as disingenuous of me to do that at the time

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

Will admit that I let myself overthink a portion of my reads to start the day, but that's what these games are for after all. Find your strengths, identify and find points to improve on and improve as a Mafia player all while playing to wincon along the way.

u seem like you're sure doing a LOT of posting after merlyn called that out
the borderline anxiety is an ehh for me

Good post from patchwork.

Though something to consider.

Why would Scum!me acknowledge this?

maybe you fucked up and you're now raising this question to make yourself look better. wifom really isn't anything someone should be spending their time on unless it's NKA or something. just use occam's razor lol
which states that smiley is probably scum because trying to make your readlists look different than your actual thought processes (in this case, trying to make your lists seem more towny)

Will admit that I let myself overthink a portion of my reads to start the day, but that's what these games are for after all. Find your strengths, identify and find points to improve on and improve as a Mafia player all while playing to wincon along the way.

u seem like you're sure doing a LOT of posting after merlyn called that out
the borderline anxiety is an ehh for me

In all actuality, I gain no benefit acknowledging my overthinking the way I did if i'm scum. It's not like it was a slip, it was a full blown post acknowledging my error in thinking.

If i'm scum here all I did was make people more suspicious of me and cause people to doubt the veracity of my posts throughout the game. I would've been doing this from a position where most of the playerlist had me as town before making that post, and for what benefit?

Page 28 from Smiley is really bad. Like patchwork alluded to it just reeks of defensiveness, like Smiley saw an experienced player onto him and panicked

To: HumanEatingMonkey or anyone else who read Noir, how did Smiley do under pressure there?

Smiley gets less active after this but comes back in 745

I kind of agree about 799 being superfluous because

Leek/Hold- 2, I don’t really see anything that directly supports this pairing, though I also don’t see anything that precludes this pair existing (except for the fact that I don’t want it to. Watch this be the team and I was being pocketed this whole time )

Leek/Flowr- 2, The only indicative thing I could find here was Leek holding a consistent TR towards the CCGeek/Patchwork/Flowr slot, A generic 2 for me, not much that supports this solve, but not seeing anything that precludes it either.

Hold/Flowr- 2, Hold established an early townread on the CCGeek slot which endured until Flowr’s vote on Merlyn late day 2. Interestingly they both wound up on the Merlyn wagon despite Hold not liking that Flowr moved the wagon to E-1 during their entrance (makes me wonder if Hold was being performative with that comment in order to distance?). Not really much in terms of notable interactions outside of what was just mentioned.

A lot of this is just saying “may be partners, may be not”. But if you’re scum Smiley and there’s a dead player who suspected you maybe you want to come back with a big content post right out of the gate.

Content reads are good day one because there’s not much information to go off and even if you’re wrong, well, that player with poor content probably wasn’t going to be much help later anyhow. By now though, we need to look more at intentionality. Look at the past two days and ask who do you think was trying to win this game for scum? Who was trying to win it for town?

[TheHoldSteady]

I fully acknowledge the mistake in forming my logic with my 675, in hindsight I think I was being self-critical to a fault here as I didn't want to give myself a pass for what happened day 1 as I thought it wouldn't be helpful to blind myself to mistakes that I may have made (I think the biggest lesson i'm going to take away from this game is to be me more confident in myself as town. I know that i'm town and I know that the motivation behind my actions were pure (even if wrong), but I feel i've done a poor job portraying that this game). Will note that no one has countered my point in 686, there's no benefit to Scum!me acknowledging what I did in 675, especially when I could've just fabricated something like 705 as a response to Leek's 651 and be in a better position. I elected to be honest and acknowledge my screw-up. If this game ends on my lim then this is fully on my shoulders for dropping the ball here in spots, though I hope town realizes that a Scum!me would literally have to be engaging in self-sabotage by acknowledging 675

i would have liked 686 better if it didn't exist because you basically acknowledged you had scum-esque motivations in making it (making yourself look more townie). idk with you though. i think a lot of the time you've been pretty insightful and we've been on similar wavelength but you have some moments that are just like huh?

[TheHoldSteady]

1.FINAL

Votecount 1.FINAL

MagicalSteve (ELIMINATED): iamveryhappy, The Bulge,

SmileyDude1, TheHoldSteady,

Civil Scum /

Merlyn

SmileyDude1 (1): CCGeek /

Patchwork / flowrbucket

Civil Scum /

Merlyn

(1): SzmarzLeek

Not Voting (2): SevenEyes /

HEM

,

MagicalSteve

With 9 players alive, it took 5 votes to secure an elimination.

SzmarzLeek: Voted for Civil Scum in 388, and explained it as an activity read in 390. A HEM bus doesn't seem as farfetched as I remembered it being before, because at the end of the day he voted for someone who we know now was town. Given the mid-to-late vote here I have mixed feelings whether or not Scum Leek saw the bandwagon forming and decided he didn't need to join. Because it wasn't at E-1 yet, only E-2 and there were still several votes still out there. Still, we know now that CS was town and Leek could have been knowingly splitting the votes between two towns.

MagicalSteve: Unvoted Herald out of fear of elimination happening too quickly and never voted again.

SevenEyes: declared intent to hammer Steve in 435 which proves she was paying attention to the bandwagon, not just AWOL. But otherwise, didn't vote at all day, which is unusual for scum because they're more likely to use their vote to sway influence.

CCGeek: This is an interesting vote choice to revisit because its the only one from day one where both slots are still alive. Unfortunately it looks like it was just a leftover vote from the RVS stage that never got removed and Geek put Smiley in the "null category" for the rest of day one, which could be a scum partner trying to distance by not ignoring their partner.

SmileyDude1: So FMPOV the only person who was on Steve who hasn't been cleared yet is Smiley. Three of the players who voted otherwise are still here, so its still mathematically possible that neither of the scum voted for town on day one. SmileyDude 187 says leaning scum on Eye, lists Steve as a town lean. Cites 12 as a "ping" but 86 as a town read 229 changes his mind and says Eyes is a newb town, 341 says the same thing.

steve's 86 and 210 look a bit like forced content to me. plus im getting a somewhat nervous vibe from steve, between 86's "i don't have anything useful to say" followed by the most substantive post of the game at the time, and the apologies for inactivity which dont really vibe w the gamestate imo (not moving very fast, mostly shitposts, and steve was never really absent)

steve's 86 and 210 look a bit like forced content to me. plus im getting a somewhat nervous vibe from steve, between 86's "i don't have anything useful to say" followed by the most substantive post of the game at the time

, and the apologies for inactivity which dont really vibe w the gamestate imo (not moving very fast, mostly shitposts, and steve was never really absent)

@MagicalSteve, your response to the latter part of this post has been duly noted, what's your response to the former part (bolded for your convenience)

Ok, given that I haven't gotten an response on this, and we're getting close to deadline, i'll say my piece on this now.

This may well be getting into semantics but I do think part of The Bulge's argument is slightly misleading here, with my main issue being with their take on 86. It's not much, but there is a difference between Steve saying "I don't have much to say" (The Bulge's framing) and Steve saying "I didn't have much to say". The latter potentially indicates that they had formed views to post in between CCGeek's 51 and their 86 in a way that the former doesn't really allow for.

Now with that being said, I don't like how MagicalSteve only elected to address part of The Bulge's case on them. It feels like they tried to minimize their case down to the part they felt like they could defend. It comes off as dodgey to me

VOTE: MagicalSteve

E-2

Here's the vote on Steve.

I don't find anything inherently bad about Smiley's D1 lim and it was actually p. similar to my own train of thought there. I am wondering about the viability of a Smiley + HEM team at this point given Smiley had an opportunity to vote Merlyn yesterday but voted HEM instead and HEM's push onto Smiley today makes it. If HEM is scum I think Flowerbucket is the most likely partner. If HEM is town then I wouldn't rule out any combination of Leek / Smiley / flowerbucket. So if I can rule out a Leek and Smiley team then Flowerbucket is the common member there.

[TheHoldSteady]

Here we go again, number 11...

[TheHoldSteady]

its not a good feeling to have been wrong twice, but all it attests to me is with two dead prs it seems to have been a very strong performance by scum. you know who the prs are then you don't need your partner as much, right? so after being wrong twice why at this point rule out the partnership i'd be the most surprised to see, leek/hem

[TheHoldSteady]

that's the ingredient i think your isos are missing -- we're playing against competent scum this game and competent scum tend to bus

[TheHoldSteady]

its not a good feeling to have been wrong twice, but all it attests to me is with two dead prs it seems to have been a very strong performance by scum. you know who the prs are then you don't need your partner as much, right? so after being wrong twice why at this point rule out the partnership i'd be the most surprised to see, leek/hem

I don't think I can see Leek advocating a day 1 policy on their partner in the way they did. Given the apparent softs coming from both PRS day 1, I could only see this from Roleblocker Leek/ Goon Seven (knowing that the setup is cop/doctor it'd get pretty close to game throwing to immediately bus seven if they were the roleblocker). In that case i'd more so expect for Leek to start sowing seeds to push others after eventually getting the Seven flip which I don't think they did here. I'm just not seeing the benefit to Leek approaching Seven the way they did if they're partnered, especially given it started fairly quickly after the replace in (maybe if they started pushing Seven later I could see Leek cutting ties with a slot they found to be dead weight, though near immediately I'd think they would try to work with them first before committing to a bus).

the push was enough that you and i both thought that they couldn't be partners, so if they're scum together it did its job

tbh i'm just being paranoid because i don't want to lose

[TheHoldSteady]

that's the ingredient i think your isos are missing -- we're playing against competent scum this game and competent scum tend to bus

This is true, though I think my problem in regards to Leek/HEM solve is that I don't see a consistent Leek plan there. Like say Leek busses Seven successfully day 1, then what? They maybe somewhat set the stage for Civil afterwards, but like Leek would need to find 3 more eliminations (that's at minimum assuming no doctor saves) to win. Scum tend to bus yes, but I think scum also take consideration of the endgames they're going to venture into. I have a hard time imagining Leek seeing a winning endgame out of immediately bussing their partner upon replace

fair

[TheHoldSteady]

Right now I think HEM is the safest vote. I think it's HEM + flower/Smiley right now. More likely flower, but it's still a plot twist category for both and very unsure.

do you think a smiley + hem team is viable in light of smileys vote yesterday and hems push today?

[TheHoldSteady]

geek reads really well D1 and start of D2

but we haven't had a stable replacement for that slot since he peaced out

makes this really hard

[TheHoldSteady]

smiley claimed at this start of day to have no idea bulge was cop

but throughout his ISO smiley has read this game very meticulously so its not that farfetched to say he would in fact have an idea of who PRs were

if smiley actually did peg bulge for cop he could've planned to bus hem to make himself look better

so i guess that partnership isn't as unviable as i originally thought

[TheHoldSteady]

has Smiley done anything DECISIVE and BOLD this game? something like my adamant push on Seven, like Bulge finishing up Steve, like THS making the town lim Merlyn? do you recall such action?

not that i remember. like I said he really faded into the background after the Merlyn push which isn't a good look

[TheHoldSteady]

still going to take a close look back at EOD 2 when I get a chance

[TheHoldSteady]

leek, i think my reasons were pretty clear and if you don't understand anything, you can ask me questions.

i established why i had the limpool of 4

and I'm pretty sure i'm perfectly capable of getting your townread by efforting in this thread, it's clear how to manipulate you

I'm just not interested in doing that

why did you sr Merlyn yesterday?

[TheHoldSteady]

ehh

what you're pointing out is laziness. town can be lazy

what's more concerning to me is how subtle hems vote on merlyn was

[TheHoldSteady]

THS is fine, he didn't hammer me yesterday before i had the chance to claim. that's probably +town

why not THS?

you answered your own question not that long ago

[TheHoldSteady]

a lot of what i know and understand about this game is just intuitive for me at this point. I've been doing this a long time. my process might seem opaque, and i might find it difficult to relate my ideas about this game to you because i'm unsure which would be confusing to newbies or not. but there's a process there. you just have to meet me halfway so we can understand each other.

that's if you're really interested in trying to sort my slot. i understand it's gonna be very easy for scum to push for my elimination here. at some point, it's also town's responsibility to make that outreach so they can make the right vote. otherwise, we just lose - but this isn't my newbie game. it's

your

newbie game.

you voted wrong yesterday and today you post this

lol

[TheHoldSteady]

VOTE: Merlyn

This vote is pretty bad looking

(sort of) mentioned Merlyn once in 552, 694, and then never again before this vote

Accusing Bulge + Merlyn just felt like quietly sliding on the accusations that were already out (that we now have the hindsight were town), meaning 694 aged poorly

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

This vote was also really REALLY sketchy

Its very hard, though admittedly not completely impossible, for scum to win a game without voting town at least once in the first two days. These votes are very questionable with the hindsight of Merlyn's flip. I'm confident that one of these slots will flip scum

[TheHoldSteady]

same. I dunno what I'd have to ask them. But its a new point of view we didn't get before so.

[TheHoldSteady]

i think leek is town and hem is scum

just need content from you tbh your slot hasn't had an active player since day 1

[TheHoldSteady]

I'm not a fan of VCA generally though

Why not

[TheHoldSteady]

As far as my vote on Steve goes, I made an incorrect call; after Bulge's case, I reread him, seeing him as nervous, with 86, 210, and 236 coming across as scum for reasons outlined in 302 & 356. I gave him ample time to respond to our accusations and change my mind but he instead disappeared from the thread, running out the clock while we waited for a defense. Come end of day one the lim options were SevenEyes (I saw it as a bad lim for reasons similar to what Bulge explained in 350), Bulge (town), Happy (town), CS (town), Smiley (seemed very town at the time, has made a few very odd posts since). I did the best I could with what we had.

[TheHoldSteady]

Where I'm at right now


HEM: Playing defensively, tried to make Seven come across as more town than they were, subtle vote onto town with little explanation in 721, lean scum
Leek: Generally if HEM is scum I don't see it, has been a productive townie player
Smiley: Slight scum for reasons already mentioned
Cook: Idk

[TheHoldSteady]

You don't look for potential associations towards me.

it's a crappy way to play the game, or at least it hasn't worked for me. it only works to justify a case and get locked into confirmation bias. i could enumerate permutations of relationships, but it's really a fools errand.

it's much more efficient for me to identify alignment-indicative moments and then judge the slot through that.

i don't think your slot has any town-indicative moments, compared to leek or ths

much more difficult to discriminate between leek and ths both had given me town vibes

This doesn't address the fact that you haven't done much to progress your read on me. We're in ELO, if town believes that a certain player is likely scum then they should be working to convince others of this view since town loses if wrong. You believe my slot is scum, yet you don't make any effort (Not sure if I've seen anything beyond VCA arguments on vibe arguments, correct me if wrong) to look for information to prove this to others, or advance your read to better convince others. You've done minimal to look at associations with me (if i'm scum my interactions with others should impact your read on other players) or outside of me (In order to avoid a tunnel without considering all possibilities first, looking at other pairs outside of your main suspect helps to avoid conf-bias). It comes off like you don't really care all that much to sort the game (I know you've been busy, but like how long does it take to comb through an ISO for example like a few hours at the high end (assuming like medium-sized) to do so and post your conclusion, even a stated intention towards doing something like that would ease my mind a slight bit), which is concerning given the position town is in.

I really don't see the point behind this post unless you're trying to receive towncred

[TheHoldSteady]

i TR leek
i null to scumread SD1
i scumread HEM but sd1 and HEM i don't think are partners
i TR THS unless something changed significantly betweeen d2 and d3
my slot is town and i haven't gotten a chance to see flowrbucket really play yet

I don't agree with completely everything in your reread (thought the 466 apology when coupled with the immediate "why would scum apologize" was scum-ish) but I had a similar progression on Leek and came to a similar reads list as you

I'm starting to think the solve could be HEM + Smiley. Smileys last couple posts don't seem like genuine solve attempts, they're just pointing out laziness. There's some things that suggest otherwise but nothing that two competent scum players couldn't achieve. HEM is an experienced player and smiley knows how to distance properly as scum.

[TheHoldSteady]

you answered your own question not that long ago

you being more likely town doesn't make you locktown. there's no reason to eliminate you from the pool if leek doesn't believe you can never be scum.

this makes no sense for town to say

[TheHoldSteady]

There's four players scumreading HEM so we need to ask ourselves at this point is this the town lim that scum is trying to ride to end of game or is someone here trying to distance from him

[TheHoldSteady]

woah you're right

i forgot we're in limlo

Your vote pattern compared to yesterday suggests you knew that its ELO

[TheHoldSteady]

no, I wanted to talk to hem first

because if you're town, then why isn't hem pushing your lim to win

some I thought: maybe it's Smiley + THS

that's why I approached hem today

but he doesn't look good and THS does

What can be proven here? Bad scum don't just kill two PRs night-to-night. Scum here are playing well. I think that's pretty much provable through the night kills.

It's why we can't get too hung up on partner tells here. Because if you think scum can hit two PRs but can't effectively distance, that doesn't make much sense to me.

What can't be proven is pretty much everything else.

It's a tough game. I've been at this for almost a month, have wanted to second guess myself at times but I'll stick to what I think is accurate and if I'm wrong, well then its a learning experience for next time

[TheHoldSteady]

Why doesn't everyone go ahead and rank who you think is scum, from most likely to least likely.

I'll say I think HEM -> Smiley -> Cook -----> Leek

[TheHoldSteady]

So if there's distancing where is it occurring?

Do you think Smiley lecturing HEM for not engaging in scumhunt enough could be an attempt at distancing?

[TheHoldSteady]

if Leek is scum he's just king of emotionally towntelling and we just lose

Its 2/3 for me between HEM, Smiley & Cook

[TheHoldSteady]

if Leek is scum he's just king of emotionally towntelling and we just lose

Its 2/3 for me between HEM, Smiley & Cook

hence why i'm so reluctant to SR. we may just lose if that's the case.

you think he could be scum but if you vote him we just side with him and vote for you instead? Is that what you mean?

[TheHoldSteady]

yo so this is going to be the last newbie

thats so sad

Why's it sad

[TheHoldSteady]

HEM will you blame us or yourself when we lose?

[TheHoldSteady]

You don't look for potential associations towards me.

it's a crappy way to play the game, or at least it hasn't worked for me. it only works to justify a case and get locked into confirmation bias. i could enumerate permutations of relationships, but it's really a fools errand.

it's much more efficient for me to identify alignment-indicative moments and then judge the slot through that.

i don't think your slot has any town-indicative moments, compared to leek or ths

much more difficult to discriminate between leek and ths both had given me town vibes

This doesn't address the fact that you haven't done much to progress your read on me. We're in ELO, if town believes that a certain player is likely scum then they should be working to convince others of this view since town loses if wrong. You believe my slot is scum, yet you don't make any effort (Not sure if I've seen anything beyond VCA arguments on vibe arguments, correct me if wrong) to look for information to prove this to others, or advance your read to better convince others. You've done minimal to look at associations with me (if i'm scum my interactions with others should impact your read on other players) or outside of me (In order to avoid a tunnel without considering all possibilities first, looking at other pairs outside of your main suspect helps to avoid conf-bias). It comes off like you don't really care all that much to sort the game (I know you've been busy, but like how long does it take to comb through an ISO for example like a few hours at the high end (assuming like medium-sized) to do so and post your conclusion, even a stated intention towards doing something like that would ease my mind a slight bit), which is concerning given the position town is in.

I really don't see the point behind this post unless you're trying to receive towncred

Wanted to point out that they didn't actually address the argument I made in my 931, while being more clear about why I find the points mentioned within that post to be problematic.

There's four players scumreading HEM so we need to ask ourselves at this point is this the town lim that scum is trying to ride to end of game or is someone here trying to distance from him

It may help in this case to do what I did and go through pairs outside of HEM and check to see how much they track with you. The most important part should be making sure today's elimination hits scum as we lose otherwise (probing interactions can come after the flip). If you can determine the common player that's most likely to be part of the solve, then you minimize the odds of the game ending today by limming that player which is the best you can hope for in most cases. I did this FMPOV and came to the conclusion in 937 that most of the non-HEM pairs don't really work (the one that's most feasible to me is Hold/Cook but i'd place that below HEM/Cook and HEM/Hold in terms of likelihood), which eased my fear of engaging into a losing mislim by pushing there.

I did that earlier but I couldn't find anything

Assume Leek is town that leaves you and Cook as the only non-HEM team the player whose slot was inactive for a good portion of this game and we don't have much interactions for

[TheHoldSteady]

frankly i'm seeing THS/HEM as the pair? i need to read about 11 pages of content before i lock that in

the common theme seems to be hem across the four of us. i think it is helpful to try to draw out an associative on hem, up to your personal preference if you want to go for hem or want to try to kill a partner so that we 100% win d4

I say lim HEM because it gives us more info and time but that's just me

[TheHoldSteady]

HEM if you're town I honestly hope you're not like this every game

Not how SEs are supposed to act at all

[TheHoldSteady]

If you don't have time you don't have time, I understand, but even when you're here you're just apathetic and uncaring

I feel like an idiot either way you flip because I passed on voting your slot twice

I almost did yesterday but one of the damn replacements gave me time to second guess

[TheHoldSteady]

Either you're town and I go 0-3 or you're scum and I missed the most apparent scum twice

[TheHoldSteady]

Spoiler: Day 1

At present, all I can say is: Brassherald and TheHoldSteady have made some impression on me already, I've played with Erinys before, and Clems is the reason I'm even in this game right now. Of the people who have spoken so far, I want to see Smileydude and Steve talk more because I have never played before with them and I need to get a grasp on their mannerisms. And of the two who haven't spoken; one is usually a lurky wildcard (KawaiiMikuStan) while the other is more grounded as both alignments (SlowthePoke).

Good post

Kawaii~! Anyway i hc vt uwu owo

Oh my God I’m so glad Leek replaced KMS because this gimmicky posting style is such a pain in the ass to read. I can’t imagine dealing with trying to sort this for a month.

So as i was saying, let's put an eeeensy weensy bit more pressure on this slot (Clem its time for me to sheep me, nii chan)

Uck from what I can make out of this awful gimmick posting KMS pings slightly town, this post in particular seems town

ok no i actually like brassherald as the game has progressed, I want to see people look into this. VOTE: SmileyDude1

Agree that LuB's post about MagicalSteve being the town leader is apparently out of nowhere. Also people, this game so far is the reason you should never have multiple PS troll players in a single MS game.
SevenEyes, welcome! Give me the name of the person you like the most and the one you like the least right now, and we'll go from there.

CCGeek most town player day 1

They feel too... lurk-y, they contributed ever so slightly by sharing reads and voting me.. then pop! Kaboom! Dissappear! Not very wonderhoi, but w/e. I just wanted to force more stuff out of em, yk?

I can see how you reach that conclusion, BrassHerald's ISO is light on non-RVS content so far. I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.

I feel neutral about that answer

Smiley’s weird thing about not removing himself from the scumpool when talking about reads has been consistent the entire game

I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.

First the self-vote and now suggesting yourself as someone to look into... Weird.

The former was my attempt at humor. As for the latter, how do you generally read self-criticism? Personally I want to say I'm of the opinion that it's fine (if i'm being honest I haven't been around here long enough to establish a baseline on these things yet) to point out flaws in my own play when they come up.

I don’t like this -- reads as defensive, maybe too defensive for what was an early game read – but on the other hand, it matches up with what Smiley was saying day two later on about that thing

I can see how you reach that conclusion, BrassHerald's ISO is light on non-RVS content so far. I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.
I feel neutral about that answer

simply going off of vibes i think that you are maybe one of the least sus rn. smileydude, on the other hand ... i'm no expert but self voting is always kinda sus ...

This was actually a good post coming for from a new town player

Also will just go ahead and say that I think there is a decent chance that there's scum pushing my self-vote here. BrassHerald's 154, and SevenEyes's 164 stand out because they came after my explanation earlier.

As such, VOTE: BrassHerald

Again, defensive

I literally said not to push your self vote and then just agreed with another person on your answer to it being weird.

Commenting on the game state is a normal way to play the game. Weird isn't even a push. It's just weird. Town can be weird.

I think I may have misinterpreted your 154 as saying that both my self-vote and self criticism was weird in isolation when you meant that they were weird put together. The former didn't really make sense since you defended the self-vote earlier, the latter is a fair point

And why are you counting out high princess, the literal one I was agreeing with it being weird with?

My reasoning on this mainly stems that they're suspicion came before I had actually explained my actions and so I understood why my actions up to that point would be seen as weird out of context, the two posts mentioned in 170 came after I had already explained and felt dogpiley (probs not the right word for it, but alas) to me.

Though given the misunderstanding UNVOTE: BrassHerald
VOTE: SevenEyes

Changing your mind reads like a genuine town thought process to me and probably the earliest indication that Smiley and Hem wouldn’t be partners
Geek comes in at 284 and immediately starts looking at a few different things from varied angles

it's easy to miss SevenEyes in this game

I don't like how she's posting just enough to avoid prods

could be an even better lim if she keeps such playstyle

Leek’s hyper-fixation on activity rubbed me the wrong way early on, because I think towns can and are in a lot of cases more likely to be inactive than scum. but I guess when I think about it in the early game the best you can hope for is everyone is active and contributing. It also makes sense that town Leek would townread CCGeek based on following the consistent logic. Town read

I have my doubts about Steve, but I don't think it is a good day 1 lim since they're providing content and post their thoughts

I believe Steve deserves another day

as opposed to SevenEyes

I don’t agree with Leek’s logic here but again, I think its misguided town

Like, I feel like you could argue that SevenEyes would be the best day 1 lim due to that slot likely being the hardest to sort later, but then I look at their content and get newb town vibes so idk

Smiley kind of handwaves the SevenEyes lim here

the "yuck" post in particular was a weird way to respond to a post about just voting, let alone any post. scumlean, imo.

SevenEyes gives a weird ass reason to scumread Bulge

hmm, not sure what to think about it

1. these reads strike me as... repeating what others have said? a lot of stuff there is reiterating my reads after entering the thread, is there any original thought there that wasn't stated in the thread earlier?

2. doubling down on "I'm a newbie" approach, so various abbreviations have been flying before in this thread and SevenEyes didn't need to points our her newbiness before so strongly; could it be that she saw "it feels like a newbie town" opinion from e.g. Smile and wanted to use that card?

town, what do you think?

SevenEyes, who would you want to lim today, the Bulge?

okay SevenEyes, who would be your second choice if e.g. there is a claim or they Bulge defends themselves well? it's wise to have a second candidate for a lim in forum mafia

magicalsteve or smileydude i think.

Yeah I’m ruling out Leek and HEM as partners. If they are scum together, just like, fuck them completely for doing this

CS doesn't look that good now after a second reread

both princess and CivilScum

commenting and questions but not much conclusions

Town

I want more from CivilScum

wanna just name all slots you want more from?

yeah, I'd like Steve to defend himself more

I want you to "do stuff" as you have noticed you're quite reactive

Very town
Day one ends there
Leek comes across as very town, Geek also (I think not committing to anything for EoD is actually more town than scum). Smiley not as much as I remembered before, SevenEyes I have no idea
As far as partner tells go for this day, Leek/HEM seems unlikely. Smiley voted Eyes for a bit, and then unvoted – could be distancing but not wanting to lim a partner, could be genuine, hard to tell. Geek 396 I don’t really understand where Leek was pocketing so I wish I had time to ask that.
Geek / cook & Smiley interactions:

CCGeek gets town points for working to get the game out of RVS

CCGeek- Town Read
MagicalSteve- Town Lean
iamveryhappy- Town Lean
TheHoldSteady - Town Lean
HighPrincessErinys- Null
KawaiiMikuStan- Null
BrassHerald- Null
SevenEyes- Slight Scum Lean
Scum
This is where i'm at right now.

I don't feel strongly about Smiley, I'll have to read him more carefully.

These two didn’t interact a whole bunch, CCGeek just says Smiley is null and Smiley puts a townread on CCGeek for helping in getting the game out of RVS. Yeah so I have no idea if they’d be partners or not based on day one. Geek barely interacted with SevenEyes either, just kind of echoed my sentiments of not knowing how the hell to read that quiet of a slot.

[TheHoldSteady]

absence makes the heart go yonder, i guess. every time i reread day one i feel better about whoever occupies ccgeek's slot

[TheHoldSteady]

you're telling me. I lose here and everyone for the rest of ms history will view the last newbie game and see me vote wrong three times in a row

[TheHoldSteady]

this is a bad day for EOD to fall for me personally

super busy

[TheHoldSteady]

dunno if I'll be here for EOD I have a class tonight that lasts like three hours

[TheHoldSteady]

VOTE: HumanEatingMonkey

If this is wrong I'm so sorry, but you could've done so much more. You know you could've done so much more

[TheHoldSteady]

Last wishes if I die tonight: I really think its more likely here that Smiley is bussing because Geek was really town and Smiley was weird in certain places please go back and read my ISOs that I gave

[TheHoldSteady]

I think smileys no dumbie and as scum he's going to want to distance from a doing nothing partner

Plus Geek was really town

Or it's Smiley and Cook and they're waiting for Cook to come on and hammer

[TheHoldSteady]

blind three way elo in the very last newbie game

[TheHoldSteady]

wouldn't smiley have killed me

[TheHoldSteady]

Smiley is 100% town

scum smiley would've easily won if he killed me and left leek here

ugh this is going to be hard

[TheHoldSteady]

Now that we know Monkey was mafia roleblocker:

Day one bussing the scum PR is a questionable decision. Unfortunately I felt like Geek didn't interact with Seven much, Smiley voted SevenEyes and then unvoted later, could easily be distancing but there's not much to read into there off of day one votes alone. However Geek was pretty much clear off of D1. So I guess that gives scum Smiley motive enough to kill him in spite of what I said before

Day two it gets a bit more questionable; doc is dead, cop is still alive. Bussing here is still not optimal, but it is more feasible than it was on day one. Did Bulge say anything D1 that would give their role away?

Got to go to work soon, will post more later hopefully. I want to review Merlyn's case for Smiley at least and review Smiley's progression onto HEM that day.

[TheHoldSteady]

I think smileys no dumbie and as scum he's going to want to distance from a doing nothing partner

Plus Geek was really town

Or it's Smiley and Cook and they're waiting for Cook to come on and hammer

My progression on HEM has been pretty clear dating back to 647 (and that came after the point HEM was most active), what about it feels ingenuine to you. Like in theory any change in read could be called buddying/pocketing (if positive) or distancing (if negative). Progression on a slot can often be fabricated for ulterior motives, but it just as easily could be one's legitimate progression on the slot. When looking at interactions to check for distancing it's important to ask yourself is the progression genuine or fabricated. So the question to answer here is do you think my progression on monkey was fabricated and if so what about it feels ingenuine to you?

Just to clarify I wasn't saying anything about your progression. Just that post in particular felt like a high word count but not solving content (scum can be unproductive, but town can also be unproductive, so it doesn't tell us much to just say this person's not doing ISOs or responding to reads) which I interpreted as a possible distancing attempt

[TheHoldSteady]

THS plays very similarly though to his scum game

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91126&user_select%5B%5D=37112

I think smileys no dumbie and as scum he's going to want to distance from a doing nothing partner

Plus Geek was really town

Or it's Smiley and Cook and they're waiting for Cook to come on and hammer

My progression on HEM has been pretty clear dating back to 647 (and that came after the point HEM was most active), what about it feels ingenuine to you. Like in theory any change in read could be called buddying/pocketing (if positive) or distancing (if negative). Progression on a slot can often be fabricated for ulterior motives, but it just as easily could be one's legitimate progression on the slot. When looking at interactions to check for distancing it's important to ask yourself is the progression genuine or fabricated. So the question to answer here is do you think my progression on monkey was fabricated and if so what about it feels ingenuine to you?

Just to clarify I wasn't saying anything about your progression. Just that post in particular felt like a high word count but not solving content (scum can be unproductive, but town can also be unproductive, so it doesn't tell us much to just say this person's not doing ISOs or responding to reads) which I interpreted as a possible distancing attempt

Hold, How do you respond to this accusation? What would you say is the difference between your posting here and 2126?

i'm assuming you quoted the wrong thing here. what's the difference? idk, i was scum that game but town this one? town is generally less pressure for me to play because you don't have to fear persecution as much which generally was something that contributed to my acrimonious exit from 2126. i think i already told you in the pt of that game, i hated playing scum day 1 and it was incredibly anxiety-producing for me. but playing town also does have its times of high pressure such as this one

[TheHoldSteady]

Smileys - agreeing with kms that brassherald is ‘lurky’ and ‘light on non RVS content’ is not accurate (they were on VLA and still posted more content than some players here), and odd when you look at all the players who fit that description better than brassherald

]I can see how you reach that conclusion, BrassHerald's ISO is light on non-RVS content so far. I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.

If you read the post Smiley was already saying “there are better players who fit that description” so I don’t get this point from Merlyn.

169, 170- smiley is posting just like they were as scum in Night of a Thousand Falseclaims. But I’ve never played with them as town- maybe they have a very good identical game?

Dont love that smiley has switched vote to an inactive and that they are his only scumread

again not seeing the point, Smiley had given more reads at this point in time?

"highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek"

yeah this caught my eye too back then, almost everyone got scum points for Steve's lim but at least there was a differentiation there, some got less some got more scum points

When making that original list I was thinking more so from the perspective of "If I was a neutral observer of that day 1 how would I feel about the players post flip". I think in reality as a player in this game, i'd probably say that the progressions myself and TheHoldSteady made seemed genuine and non-malicious. Though if I were reading the game and not participating in it i'd likely find it notable that both of the aforementioned slots progressed from liking the Steve slot to agreeing to eliminate it. These are two slots that in retrospect probably would've been better marked as neutral, though I had felt that it may have came off as disingenuous of me to do that at the time

This kind of overthinking is not a towny trait

I still think its more scum than town to worry about coming off as disingenuous. Just can’t shake that comment from Smiley

in D2 454,he says ''here's what I learned from the flip' and highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek. Doesn't bring up that he was looking at CS as a Steve partner. Doesn't reconsider based on the fact that Steve was town. Keeps CS as his main scumread.

This is a good point

I'm still leaning towards Smiley for the subtlety of the switch off of SevenEyes D1, some progression inconsistencies like the one Merlyn pointed about above, general defensiveness (there's at least a few times where Smiley responded to accusations in ways that felt sort of like a scum being worried about suspicion), admitting to being afraid of sounding disingenuous, as well as just reading CCGeek as really town D1 and not seeing a clear agenda with any of his three replacement slots

IDRK though

[TheHoldSteady]

He was pretty similar to here

[TheHoldSteady]

here's my dilemma:

if i go off of partner interactions, it seems like it'd be cook

if i go off of individual tells, i lean smiley

[TheHoldSteady]

here's my dilemma:

if i go off of partner interactions, it seems like it'd be cook

if i go off of individual tells, i lean smiley

has there been any sort of consistency with my slot being solveworthy? or is it more a "ehh this feels like some of the interactions are scummy and the consensus against everyone who's played it seems to indicate it's scum"

i'm hung up on 729 and 730 and hem and smiley pushing on each other yesterday because those are the things that seem to indicate they wouldn't be a team. and if they're not a team then it would have to be you by default

[TheHoldSteady]

hem flat out ignored your slot also which is bugging me

[TheHoldSteady]

i'm also looking at reads (685) and 799, and 866 while we're at it)

sd1 is not scumreading anyone in 685! not even hem, who is the closest of the two wagons! closest we have is a "scum side of null" to imply there's room for a town!hem world

Merlyn had moved themselves out of my scumread range, due to what I had felt had been quality recent posting. At that point, my reasoning for the scumlean on HEM was mostly due to a lack of reads on the gamestate so far from them and thus thought it appropriate to give more time for them to provide those before moving them down into scum territory

what did you think about my and leek's reasons for voting hem then?

[TheHoldSteady]

frankly i'm seeing THS/HEM as the pair? i need to read about 11 pages of content before i lock that in

the common theme seems to be hem across the four of us. i think it is helpful to try to draw out an associative on hem, up to your personal preference if you want to go for hem or want to try to kill a partner so that we 100% win d4

this post aged poorly

[TheHoldSteady]

Would say I'm most interested in humaneatingmonkey (SevenEyes) being that high, was wondering if you could expand on that.

Your points relating to the Bulge have been noted. Will likely take another look at EoD 1 when I get back to see if I see what you're seeing.

My break is about to end in a second, but I should be back in a few hours

merlyn puts hem as a higher townread than most people have, but instead of agreeing with this or latching onto it smiley questions it in a way that seems not very opaque. this is a post that reads like the hem push was genuine and not just a bus

[TheHoldSteady]

My PoE:
HEM-(Most likely for me at this point, though their recent posting has me worried that I might be off here (hence why they're not the only person in this PoE). It doesn't really match the vibe I'd expect from scum and while it's probably wrong for me to read too much into it, I can't help but be slightly paranoid.)

Cook- (Much less likely. As mentioned earlier, I think the only feasible solve that doesn't include HEM is a Hold/Cook solve. Based on play reasons, If I had to choose between the two i'd rather bet on Cook first over Hold (This mostly comes down to Cook's slot being relatively absent for most of the game and Hold being solid for most of the game, I like Cook's entrance here).

idk what to make of this

[TheHoldSteady]

especially the "hem is making me paranoid that i'm wrong" i don't see where hem was town telling at that point so this could be like, a way to subtly shift sus onto cook

[TheHoldSteady]

its doubt but doubt in a very different way than leek's doubt was presenting

[TheHoldSteady]

I need cases

[TheHoldSteady]

Cook why do you think its Smiley and Smiley are there any individual tells you think Cook would be scum or is it just interactions with HEM

[TheHoldSteady]

I agree with you that today hasn't been a good showing for her

[TheHoldSteady]

I don't like that she's waited so long to commit to a side after warning us against doing the same thing

[TheHoldSteady]

"i scumread HEM but sd1 and HEM i don't think are partners" to now is also a weird progression

[TheHoldSteady]

VOTE: Cook

[TheHoldSteady]

i had a thought while we were in elo

you can sort of scumhunt with votes in elo

if someone votes someone else and scum does NOT quickhammer, then either you are voting scum or scum is voting you

so scum, reasonably, cannot vote first if both town players trust each other enough

right. the reason i held off on voting was because i knew as soon as i did one of you would know i was scum. so i was avoiding giving one of you the 50/50.

[TheHoldSteady]

@all the people who mourn Newbie queue:

Would ya'll be down for a round of NewD3 on the open queue? I really feel like modding a game soonish, just not sure between a Newbie or a Normal.

I'd be down

I wanted to keep doing newbie games until I rolled town in one of them because I think its my weaker alignment, but the querie closure changed those plans

[TheHoldSteady]

@all the people who mourn Newbie queue:

Would ya'll be down for a round of NewD3 on the open queue? I really feel like modding a game soonish, just not sure between a Newbie or a Normal.

I'd be down

I wanted to keep doing newbie games until I rolled town in one of them because I think its my weaker alignment, but the querie closure changed those plans

What's your scum streak?

Scum 2126 and this game. I mostly played town when I played off-site. I only remember playing scum in forum mafia one time before 2126 and it was like in...2011.

[TheHoldSteady]

thanks everyone, especially smiley who was the only one besides me who made it from the very beginning all the way to the last eod. you and cook nearly had me at one point. enjoyed playing with town as well. cheers to the last newbie game