Newbie 807 - Game Over

[bgg1996]

I vote ChannelDelibird.

[bgg1996]

Well, before we do, I'd like to ask Kichirou, why he put CBD at L-2?

Basically, Kich, could you explain your vote?

It was random lol

Ah.

...

Then what about you, bgg1996? Why did you vote for CBD?

His vote seemed suspicious.
Besides, it's the first round.

[bgg1996]

Ah I'm here I'm here.
He just seemed suspicious is all.
A lot of people random vote, at least I have a little reason.
I'm here I'm here.

[bgg1996]

You want a reason? Here.

He was the first to vote.
A mafia would be more active as he would be waiting to night kill someone.
A townie however, would be less active.
There is then the possibility that he is a cop/doctor.
I cannot disprove this theory, however, It would be less likely, because if he was mafia, then the other mafia would assist him in voting for the same person, most likely without a reason.
Both Channeldelibird, and dothefandango voted for cancerbottle, without clear reason. I can then deduce that If ChannelDelibird is mafia, then dothefango is also mafia, and if ChannelDelibird isn't, then dothefango is most likey a townie. Therefore, even if ChannelDelibird is good, then we can get valuable information from him.

[bgg1996]

He was the first to vote.

I don't want to go into the whole metagaming thing again but to suspect someone because of that point is unprovable and thus null.

A mafia would be more active as he would be waiting to night kill someone.
A townie however, would be less active.

Firstly,

As an IC, it's my job to talk as much as possible, particularly at the start of the game, in order to help you guys into the rhythm of the game.

Secondly, more active when you're waiting? That seems contradictory. Also it seems as if you're defending your inactivity. You're blatantly calling yourself townie in this post which is a scummie move.

There is then the possibility that he is a cop/doctor.
I cannot disprove this theory, however, It would be less likely, because if he was mafia, then the other mafia would assist him in voting for the same person, most likely without a reason.

Are you trying to say that because DTF voted for the same person that CDB voted for, it's more likely that they're both mafia? Additionally, I had voted for CancerBottle before. Are you accusing me as well?

Both Channeldelibird, and dothefandango voted for cancerbottle, without clear reason. I can then deduce that If ChannelDelibird is mafia, then dothefango is also mafia, and if ChannelDelibird isn't, then dothefango is most likey a townie. Therefore, even if ChannelDelibird is good, then we can get valuable information from him.

CDB originally voted for CancerBottle as a

RANDOM

vote. RVS (random voting stage) is common in all mafia games. If you're accusing his vote of being suspicious then you're accusing everyone else's random vote of being suspicious as well. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! Reading CDB's posts yields his explanation of why he held his vote for CancerBottle. Specifically, post 92. Also, DTF has a reason for his vote, to "stir things up." Also, as Snow White pointed out above, it was to see who else would jump on the bandwagon.

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote:bgg1996

If you're going to suspect me for explaining myself, then I have half a mind to change my vote to you. But I have the other half to tell me that you're not a mafia, or at least I don't have a reason to believe that.

yet

. You know I was inactive. You know I can't imagine it being very fun as a townie. You have no idea who everyone is, and everyone shoots bullets, but only 7/9 of those are random. I would appreciate it if you didn't try to kill me. The mafia, cops , and doctors would post more. That's a fact. I didn't get a chance to read all of your posts explaining why you're not just some, killer on the loose. There is a reason the first man killed is almost always a townie, and it's not just because there are more towines. It's because the mafia will gang up on someone. I am not mafia. I know that. If three people are voting against me, well I think I've explained that that means 1 of them would probably be mafia. It wouldn't be you though. The mafia, I would imagine would start the landslide.

Unvote:ChannelDelibird
Revote:crazypianist1116

[bgg1996]

I can't believe I didn't get prodded.
Anyway, I'm on vacation, so after today I won't be able to post util 2 days from now, just to let you know.

The reason I voted for crazypianist was because I miscounted the votes, in other words, there was no real reason for me to vote for him. Yet.
Isn't that funny? hahahahaha. heeee.
I guess not.

Anyway, I'm voting for dothefandango

. You can ask why if you want, but I don't want to get prodded right now, so I better post quick.

[bgg1996]

Dothefandango, could you please vote?
We can't move to the night phase unless you vote, AND someone switches their vote.

Voting is all fun and good, but not when we're just futilly convincing eachother to change.

If you vote and within 5 hours noone else has changed their vote, and I'm online, I'll change my vote.

It doesn't matter who's scum if the game dies.

[bgg1996]

Well, I'm online, so I'm going to go ahead and

unvote:Dothefandango
revote:Kichirou

I don't think he seems particularly scummy, but I just want to move on with the game, so don't think this means I've dropped my suspicions on you.

Also, Why am I on your scumdar, snow white?

suspicions:Snow white, dothefandango, and

possibly

channeldelibird/crazypianist.

[bgg1996]

If 2 other people vote him, then I will.

That was different. That was the kardwagon of 09. This is a stalemate.

If we were playing chess, and every move you made either took you in a circle back to where you started, or made you lose, wouldn't you rather lose the game, thencontinue to go in a circle forever?

[bgg1996]

Well, I'm lost.

I was GOING to vote dothefandango, but he voted for kichirou, and he made a good point on snow white.

Snow white was framed too many times to be a coincidence. If she was scum, then she could do this whenever she wants. And she was real friendly with kichirou.

I wish crazy was here, he seemed like the logical type. I would follow CDB's vote, but everyone sees the problem with that.

If I vote for DTF, and he's a good guy, then CDB will vote me, so I'm inclined to vote snow white, but I really should wait for everyone else to vote first.

Also, CDB, why did you vote me first? wasn't the only reason you voted me because you thought DTF and me were scumbuddies?

[bgg1996]

Since everyone has shown up, I guess I should vote now.
This vote is inclined to change.

I vote snow white.

She was framed twice too many.
kichirou and snow white protected eachother a lot. It's one thing not to suspect someone, but another thing entirely to protect them.

[bgg1996]

You haven't answered my question.
Why did you vote me rather than dothefandango?

I think you did it to apply pressure to me, but I don't know.
Why?

[bgg1996]

Votes are to find, and kill scum, and that vote removed pressure from dothefandango.

I don't see what about my behavior you find scummy.

The only thing you said was me being scumbuddies with dothefandango, but I can't, so that blows your theory.

[bgg1996]

Oh, please.
If there was a quicklynch, then mafia would kill someone, there would be 3 left, and we would win, voting the quicklyncher.

And, you're avoiding my question.
What about me do you find scummy?

[bgg1996]

I don't want to be prodded.

I have logical reasons for voting snow white, that I can't tell you.

Also,

There is no reason bgg would ever do that, when he is in a complete position to NOT vote in his confidant. Also, I had hoped that Kichirou's guilt would get you off my case and realize that Kard's voting process was a joke, but I guess not.

Vote: SNOW WHITE

Let's end this.

You seemed quite sure about voting snow white before, what made you change your mind?

I'm not saying you're scum, I just want answers

[bgg1996]

Speaking of which, why didn't the mafia kill the little IC?
That's right, I want some answers from you this time CDB.
Don't take it personnally, I'll do it to everyone. It's just to clear false suspicions.
1. Why didn't the mafia kill the IC rather than mejifan, and crazypianist?
2. Why are you so obsessed with killing me and dothefandango?
3. Why can't I think of a third question?

[bgg1996]

I NEVER SAID I WAS A COP $&#^*$^!
I am not a cop.
If I told the mafia my ingenious plan, then it would be ruined!

I would already be telling you too much if I said the mafia frames you every night.

You want me to unvote you?
f***ing ask politely.

[bgg1996]

In other news, Snow White is quite right to react in the way she did to bgg's vague hints. They looked a lot like a cop trying to intimate a guilty investigation (and if we DO have a cop with a guilty, come out now and we can win the game), but as bgg's since specified that he is not a cop, then

bgg - you must explain yourself

. If you're not a cop, then there is no information you can have which can't or shouldn't be shared with the town. Any "plan" you had can't work now because you've drawn attention to it. Explain this in your next post, because otherwise it's just going to look like you're lying scum trying (and failing) to convince people to vote Snow White for a secret (read: no) reason.

Fine.
It was a stupid plan anyway.
Speaking of which, since the plan cannot work after the mafia reads this post,

I unvote snow white

, but fos:CDB, you read the fact that if the mafia found out my plan, it would be ruined. After everyone else but cancerbottle posted, you were the only one to demand to know what it was. Of course my plan would only work if snow white actually got lynched, sooo. I will now take a break from why I suspect CDB to tell you my plan.It's in the spoiler.

I noticed every night snow white got framed. After that I started to wonder what would happen if snow white got lynched. Again, I will remind you, that I since realized it was a stupid plan, because I came to the conclusion that the mafia would frame someone else. The mafia, of course, does not have to frame someone else. But since I didn't realize that at the time, I believed I could determine the mafia by who they framed. And remember, next round, NO VOTING!!!!!

Now that I've told you my plan, I will go on to tell you why I suspect CDB.
He suspects me, and dothefandango, and since DTF is probably die-ing today, that leaves me as his top suspect (And if DTF turns out to be evil, it doesn't matter who I suspect, because the game would be over), and I know myself to be good. Don't you find it a little coincidental that his top suspects_me and DTF_ aren't lynched OR night killed till the 2nd-last day phase, assuming DTF is lynched. You're an IC, so if you were mafia, you could hide it pretty well, and I STILL find it strange you were never killed.

My top suspects are you and snow white, and may I add, never once did snow white vote a mafia.

Also, Snow white, for your own good, list all of the possibly scummy things you did, and say why they aren't true. Trust me, the more there are, the less scummy you'll seem.

[bgg1996]

aw crap, am I going to have to respond to all this?

Fine.
It was a stupid plan anyway.

Yes.

QFT

Speaking of which, since the plan cannot work after the mafia reads this post,

I unvote snow white

, but fo

m

s:CDB, you read the fact that if the mafia found out my plan, it would be ruined.

I've already said that it was you that ruined your "plan", not me, by drawing attention to it. There was no way any self-respecting town could have allowed you to get away with saying "I can't tell you why I'm doing this, but I'm not a cop" without explaining yourself, because there was no super-secret information you could have had. Ergo, as soon as you said it, you'd ruined it because you were always going to have to explain, so don't pin this on me because I was the one who asked you to.

Just because the plan was mentioned didn't necessarily mean it was going to fail. It's stupidness made sure of that. In fact I used complicated terms to give the illusion that it wasn't as stupid as in reality it was.
Also, there was a typo, I meant this.

After everyone else but cancerbottle posted, you were the only one to demand to know what it was.

Is my reasoning wrong?

Yes

.
Are the other players who posted newbies and therefore possibly not aware of why it was important you explained yourself?

not if they were townies

.

I noticed every night snow white got framed. After that I started to wonder what would happen if snow white got lynched. Again, I will remind you, that I since realized it was a stupid plan, because I came to the conclusion that the mafia would frame someone else. The mafia, of course, does not have to frame someone else. But since I didn't realize that at the time, I believed I could determine the mafia by who they framed. And remember, next round, NO VOTING!!!!!

Whoops, I unspoilered it. No-one's *not* gonna read it, anyway.

So, uh, yes, it's a bit of a stupid plan, because it relies entirely on conjecture about why people were nightkilled (I've continually given reasons why that sort of thing isn't reliable for scumhunting). So since you're aware that it's a stupid plan, why did you give me a Fo

m

S for supposedly ruining it? (as I've said above, you were the one that ruined it anyway)

Again,

Now that I've told you my plan, I will go on to tell you why I suspect CDB.
He suspects me, and dothefandango, and since DTF is probably dying today, that leaves me as his top suspect (And if DTF turns out to be evil, it doesn't matter who I suspect, because the game would be over), and I know myself to be good.

Clearly one of you is town. That much is obvious. Do you think I think you're

both

scum or something? O.o And why am I likely to be scum just because I suspect you and "you know you're town"? The whole point is that the town don't know who each other are, so town players suspect each other all the time. This is a non-argument.

What I was trying to say was, if dothefandango, ended up good, that would mean your ONLY two suspicions in the game are good, and if he ended up bad, there's no point in having suspicions in the first place, because the game would be over.

Don't you find it a little coincidental that his top suspects_me and DTF_ aren't lynched OR night killed till the 2nd-last day phase, assuming DTF is lynched.

This makes no sense either. You seem to be assuming the following:

1) that I've been suspicious of you and DTF from the very start of the game.
2) that I could have either of them lynched at any time just because I wanted to.
3) that I am somehow responsible for their not being nightkilled.

Here is why the above are not true:

1) I first expressed suspicion of DTF at the start of Day 2 (since I wasn't online at the time he made his lynch-1 vote on Kard, which was at the end of Day 1). I only seriously considered you as scum from your hammer vote at the end of Day 2, and consequently the start of today. I hadn't established clearly defined suspicions yet when Day 1 abruptly ended. So, your point that I've apparently been after you two the whole game is wrong.

I never said you were suspecting us from the start of the game, if you did, you could have picked kard by mistake.
I was saying that in the game, you only ever had 2 suspicions, me and DTF,

2) Of course I couldn't just have one of you lynched at any time just because I wanted to - if that were the case, DTF would have died a lot earlier, probably yesterday. I'm just one of the players in this game, and it requires a majority to lynch. Sure, I'm trying to persuade people to agree with me, because I agree with me, but that doesn't mean that I am responsible for the fact that neither of you have died yet. In fact, it suggests the opposite - I've been arguing for DTF particularly to die for two game days now, so it's pretty much down to everyone else that he hasn't died yet.

I can't argue with you there, but of course if you were mafia

3) This is unfair, because you are *assuming* that I am mafia and not including the possibility that I am town. For someone who's put so much stock into this whole "framing" business with regard to the nightkills, I find it ridiculous that you are so narrow-minded when it comes to how you think the nightkills make me look.

There is the possibility that you are town, but it's

your

job to explain why.

You're an IC, so if you were mafia, you could hide it pretty well, and I STILL find it strange you were never killed.

Being more experienced doesn't automatically make me a better player. I'm fine with you reading my play in this game and some of my other old games if you like, and judging my ability personally, but it's a lazy argument to say "all ICs must be better at mafia".

1.Practice makes perfect.
2.ARE you more experienced?
3.I

am

lazy.

Also, it's not enough for you to just say I'd be good at hiding it if I were mafia. That's using the Too Townie argument, where you accuse someone of being so pro-town, that they must be scum. It's a logical fallacy - if I look pro-town, I'm more likely to be pro-town. Unless you can find actual posts that I've made that are more likely to be made by scum than town (and, please, feel free to look), then you have no real reason to suspect me. It's just IC-fear, and it's baseless.

I'm going to repeat this, because it's something everyone needs to understand:

The only way you can judge whether you think people are scum or not is by finding posts that they've made that are scummy.

Not fear of someone's reputation (whether it's earned or not, I'm not going to judge my own ability as a player, that's up to you), not WIFOM based on a million possible reasons why Player X got killed at night rather than Player Y, but actual things they've said and done that are more likely to have been said and done by someone looking to blend in, to mislead the town, rather than someone looking to hunt the scum.

I genuinely believe that I have spent this game asking questions of people, picking them up only on things they've said and done in the thread, making them answer and explain themselves, to try and determine who is more likely to be scum. If any of you think I've been trying to blend in, or mislead the town,

find a post of mine that backs up that theory

. I'll be happy to explain myself, because I have nothing to hide.

I did that and found out you're actually probably not mafia.
No, not because of your advice,

Vote Count

ChannelDelibird (3)Kichirou

A mafia doesn't usually vote for it's teammate on the first round.

My top suspects are you and snow white, and may I add, never once did snow white vote a mafia.

You mean, never once did Snow White vote for a *confirmed* mafia. She may well have voted for the other mafia, but we don't know who that is yet. This is an unfair argument to use on her (and also, I never voted for Kichirou either. We can't both be scum).

I know, It was just something I thought I'd point out.

Also, Snow white, for your own good, list all of the possibly scummy things you did, and say why they aren't true. Trust me, the more there are, the less scummy you'll seem.

No, it's not up to her to find what she thinks might be scummy about herself, because she will believe everything she's done is pro-town. You have to tell her what you found scummy, and then she can respond to them.

I disagree with that statement, but I have the time now, so Snow White:
1. Why do you think the mafia tried to frame you rather than say, CDB?
2. What proof do you have that you're not mafia?
3. What does your scumdar say?

[bgg1996]

In other news, Snow White is quite right to react in the way she did to bgg's vague hints. They looked a lot like a cop trying to intimate a guilty investigation (and if we DO have a cop with a guilty, come out now and we can win the game), but as bgg's since specified that he is not a cop, then

bgg - you must explain yourself

. If you're not a cop, then there is no information you can have which can't or shouldn't be shared with the town. Any "plan" you had can't work now because you've drawn attention to it. Explain this in your next post, because otherwise it's just going to look like you're lying scum trying (and failing) to convince people to vote Snow White for a secret (read: no) reason.

Fine.
It was a stupid plan anyway.
Speaking of which, since the plan cannot work after the mafia reads this post,

I unvote snow white

, but fos:CDB, you read the fact that if the mafia found out my plan, it would be ruined. After everyone else but cancerbottle posted, you were the only one to demand to know what it was. Of course my plan would only work if snow white actually got lynched, sooo. I will now take a break from why I suspect CDB to tell you my plan.It's in the spoiler.

I noticed every night snow white got framed. After that I started to wonder what would happen if snow white got lynched. Again, I will remind you, that I since realized it was a stupid plan, because I came to the conclusion that the mafia would frame someone else. The mafia, of course, does not have to frame someone else. But since I didn't realize that at the time, I believed I could determine the mafia by who they framed. And remember, next round, NO VOTING!!!!!

Now that I've told you my plan, I will go on to tell you why I suspect CDB.
He suspects me, and dothefandango, and since DTF is probably die-ing today, that leaves me as his top suspect (And if DTF turns out to be evil, it doesn't matter who I suspect, because the game would be over), and I know myself to be good. Don't you find it a little coincidental that his top suspects_me and DTF_ aren't lynched OR night killed till the 2nd-last day phase, assuming DTF is lynched. You're an IC, so if you were mafia, you could hide it pretty well, and I STILL find it strange you were never killed.

My top suspects are you and snow white, and may I add, never once did snow white vote a mafia.

Also, Snow white, for your own good, list all of the possibly scummy things you did, and say why they aren't true. Trust me, the more there are, the less scummy you'll seem.

ahem

[bgg1996]

CDB, will you please post everything that you can find scummy about me, so I can disprove it and help find the scum? Thank you in advance.

[bgg1996]

Man, this post took a long time.

CDB, will you please post everything that you can find scummy about me, so I can disprove it and help find the scum? Thank you in advance.

This about sums it up.

Way to miss my point. I thought your vote on Kichirou was for terrible reasons

1.(abandoning your supposed real suspicion for the sake of the game moving on)

2. and looked like you might have been throwing your scumbuddy under the bus. This is independent of DTF.

If that's his only reason, then I'm not sure what to think.

But, I'll answer it using my own logic

and

CDB's.

CDB's Logic:
1. If I'm not not finding scum, I probably am scum, but if I were scum, then I would know that kichirou was scum, therefore, I wouldn't be abandoning my true suspicions, because I would know kichirou was scum. You're logic is flawed.

2. 4 people voted her, and none of them had any more chance of bussing than the other. This is a non-argument.

My Logic:
1. If I didn't, someone would, and it sure wouldn't have been the scum who switched to their buddy, you would be barking up the wrong tree AGAIN, and the scum would profit greatly,

or

the game would end.

2. Anyone who voted kichirou could have been bussing her.


----------------------------------

You are hypocritical.

The only way you can judge whether you think people are scum or not is by finding posts that they've made that are scummy. Not fear of someone's reputation (whether it's earned or not, I'm not going to judge my own ability as a player, that's up to you), not WIFOM based on a million possible reasons why Player X got killed at night rather than Player Y, but actual things they've said and done that are more likely to have been said and done by someone looking to blend in, to mislead the town, rather than someone looking to hunt the scum.

1. There are plenty of reasons why this could be the case (though as I've said repeatedly this game, though, trying to figure out the scum's thinking on the nightkills is murky WIFOM territory): for example, it's quite possible that I've been left alive because the scum were hoping that someone would make exactly the post that you just did, implicating me. It's also possible that for whatever reason the scum thought Meji or CP might be threats later, or that they thought they could frame someone else by killing those particular people, or that Meji looked at them a bit funny, or that the scum have an irrational hatred of people whose usernames end in 'pianist'. There are a lot of possible reasons, and we have no way of deciding with any certainty at all which is the more likely.

And you're logic is flawed

This doesn't make sense. You didn't know bgg was going to just hammer to get on with the game, and if you did, the pro-town move would have been to not allow him to do so. It's quite plausible that you could have been bussing Kichirou, in order to use exactly this argument ("look, I got a mafia lynched! I

can't

be scum!") to make people think you're town.

Actually, he

did

know, because I told him I would.

You read the post, you even posted about it.
You allowed me to do so as well. You could very well have been stacking the votes in such a manner, that it would be inevitable that someone would switch, so you could make this very argument.





You

do

have scummy posts

CDB, what will you do if DTF is lynched and is revealed innocent? I will be going after Snow White if that's the case.

I'm not going to set up tomorrow's lynch before we've seen what happens with today's. As it stands, today, I don't see Snow White as likely scum and it would take a lot for me to change my mind. (There is also the fact that someone will [probably] be nightkilled, and that will reduce the suspect pool)

It sounds like you're trying to limit our investigative skills, as well as the following quote, and many others.

You've actually used the word "fallacy" yourself! That alone is a pretty damn good reason to dismiss it.

Not to mention ALL of the times you told us not to judge based off of NKs.



You admitted to being mafia yourself.

I, ChannelDelibird, am proclaiming, that I, am mafia.

Just kidding

[bgg1996]

Firstly. Im reapplying my vote to bgg1996 because i think he's the most likely to be scum. Ive given my reasons earlier but ill do a quick re cap.

Bgg1996 day1 left a vague threat that he had some role. Or at least this is how i interpretted it.

If you're going to suspect me for explaining myself, then I have half a mind to change my vote to you. But I have the other half to tell me that you're not a mafia, or at least I don't have a reason to believe that. yet. You know I was inactive. You know I can't imagine it being very fun as a townie. You have no idea who everyone is, and everyone shoots bullets, but only 7/9 of those are random.

I picked him up on it. Even encouraging Kard to unvote bgg1996 in fear that bgg1996 had a power role. (Post 141) and sticking up for kards decision to unvote bgg1996 in the face of Meji Fan. (Post 152)

Bgg1996 ignored this. (Post 152 i requested to hear back from him in regard to the matter), i voiced why i wanted to then vote bgg1996. (Post 179) and asked him to give an explanation as to why he thought he had not been killed during the night which he did not see or ignored. I asked him to comment again (post 202) which too went unanswered. I finally gave up and forgot after CP was killed off.

It surprises me that Meji Fan was killed, if mafia thought there was a chance of a power role wouldnt there be a inclination to off that specific person as soon as they could? Furthermore today bgg1996 left ANOTHER vague threat today that he had a role such as a cop.

I left no such threat.

And as for the power role non-NK...
There are plenty of reasons why this could be the case: for example, it's quite possible that I've been left alive because the scum were hoping that someone would make exactly the post that you just did, implicating me. It's also possible that for whatever reason the scum thought Meji or CP might be threats later, or that they thought they could frame someone else by killing those particular people, or that Meji looked at them a bit funny, or that the scum have an irrational hatred of people whose usernames end in 'pianist'. There are a lot of possible reasons, and we have no way of deciding with any certainty at all which is the more likely.

I have logical reasons for voting snow white, that I can't tell you.

When we have nothing but 2days to lylo i assume it seems awful risky to try out his "planned logical reason" which he then edited out but not before CDB see them and publically put them up. Because quite frankly IT MAKES NO SENSE. At least to me.

You can't edit posts in this forum...

I noticed every night snow white got framed. After that I started to wonder what would happen if snow white got lynched. Again, I will remind you, that I since realized it was a stupid plan, because I came to the conclusion that the mafia would frame someone else. The mafia, of course, does not have to frame someone else. But since I didn't realize that at the time, I believed I could determine the mafia by who they framed. And remember, next round, NO VOTING!!!!!

Whoops, I unspoilered it. No-one's *not* gonna read it, anyway.

SNOW WHITE DIDN'T!

And this

I would already be telling you too much if I said the mafia frames you every night.

Does he know im being framed or what?

That was merely a wording error.

What is probably my last defence seeing as i know DTF and bgg will vote me.

There's no guaranty that we will vote you.

Im new to this the whole glossary and shortened terms some of which i couldnt find in the dictionary. Many of the terms i didnt understand what you meant. "Strawman" for instance. Now i do know what it means through further experience but there is little i can now do about that.

Does google mean anything to you?

Secondly. Why would i restate what you had already pointed out? I gave a list of reasons why i thought CDB was suspicious but i did not mean that to be "storing" for an arguement later.

Thirdly i made a generalisation. And if i named Kirichou the goon then equally could i not name bgg1996 the goon? Who knows? Bar the mafia of course. I explained at the time i seen them as townies who were bored. Idk what i was expecting he could have said "i rolled a dice" and then i probably would have asked him his thoughts as the game progressed. Honestly, i cant remember what i was thinking at the time but i can assume thats what i had planned to do.

???
What does kichirou being a goon, have anything to do with me being a goon?

Yes. Obviously to me, this is a frame. Again.

???
Framing who?
You?

Frankly i like my vote to have reason behind it. Yes im reluctant for someone im unsure of but neither can i split my vote in two. But i did want my thoughts to be heard. I like hearing other peoples opinions and to know that i am not going delusional and seeing things that arent there and being persecuted for it and hurting the town.

He buddied me unbeknownst to me. This is all i can say and had this been pointed out, i would have considered voting for him. But this has all come to light AFTER kichirou was lynched.

Whadda ya say Snow White, another frame?

CB (if you are inncoent) your vote has essentially handed my lynch warrant to the Mafia. DTF wants to lynch me as does bgg1996.

As I've already said,
There's no guaranty that we will vote you.

Im as good as dead. Have fun finding mafia because i could be as wrong as you are currently, because i am simple town. Maybe even as DTF wiki'd "Village Idiot".

You don't have to die.

[bgg1996]

I don't want to be the lynching vote.

I suspect Snow white as much as the next guy, but I just don't want anything suspicious on me before lylo.

What do you think, go with my suspicion, or wait till more evidence is given?

[bgg1996]

I don't need a prod I'll get back to you in a second.

[bgg1996]

antiprod post

[bgg1996]

I had a contribution-related post ready, but my sister deleted it. >(

I'll contribute in a second, but tell me CDB, if the mod didn't prod me, and I continued to not post, would you have voted me?(this is a question about your stategy)

[bgg1996]

Snow white is the most suspicious to me.

Night kills by my standards are a source of information, while not the most reliable one.
Consider this, Someone is found with a knife repeatedly stabbing a corpse, there is no solid proof that (s)he is the murderer. While this may be misleading about how faulty they can be, it is still a valid source of information.

CDB, you have close to no scummy posts. (the ones you do have aren't that scummy. That may very well be why Snow white's suspicions are mostly made up of reasons why she thinks I'm not scummy.

This is the final round, and she seems to have half of her argument reasons why I am not scum.

CDB has proved to me, that he was telling the truth about when he said he always tells the truth as an IC. He however, is not always correct. That may be the reason he has not been very suspicious, or it could be that he is more experienced, either way, I don't think he is very scummy

I believe snow white to be most suspicious and am growing quite bored.

[bgg1996]

Sorry, I can't post right now, I'm on vacation ill be back on the 22nd.

[bgg1996]

I'm back from vacation and ready to contribute, but I would like to point out that I had a post ready before the prod, but my sister deleted it.
The reason I didn't rewrite it before the prod is because I was too lazy, but seeing the prod pushed me over the top to rewrite it.