Newbie 817 (Game over!)

[Starbuck]

Hello everyone, I'm Starbuck! I'm replacing Halidon. I think I know two people out of everyone here, it's great to see some fresh new faces! So hello to you all and welcome to Mafiascum!

I love all the delightful advice that I've seen on my read-through! My bit to add is instead of typing your post up in the reply area. Use notepad and then you can edit in the BBcode and make it how you like.

On Halidon, my predecessor

He only joined the site on 19 July. And I don't think he realized that iamausername was replying to bouchedufou when he wrote this:

Do you think it would be helpful for me to claim now?

Vote: Halidon

This vote is not random.

How so indeed? And what is the purpose of you claiming so early in the game when no one is in danger of being lynched yet? Do you care to explain?

It also seems that crazypianist didn't see this either. It has nothing to do with his being an SE, he was asking the question of bouchedufou, who believes that a random vote should lead to a claim for some reason.

bouchedufou

Why would you think a random vote would lead to a claim? It would be random, if you just chose someone. You didn't.

You said this:

Yippee! Started!

So this is a random vote to get the guy to claim?

vote- iamausernam

Now what happens?

You said, in more or less words, that you want this person to claim, therefore making your random vote, a non-random vote. Your statement can be taken as you are scum and want to know what username's role is so you know whether or not he's worth it to vote for or NK.

Have you read all the introductory pages in the Wiki or even glanced over a few of the completed Newbie games? You may want to just to get a feel for how things are played here.

You are also bouncing around your votes quite a bit. You need to be careful of that, it's normally typical of scum to bounce around on different wagons.

Also, why do you feel like we are back at the random stage? We have gotten quite a bit of information, even over the last few pages. You don't seem to understand why people think that startransmission is scummy, have you read over their posts where they say why? We are only on page 3 and it's not that hard to go back and re-read.

starttransmission

I agree with you that being aggressive is pro-town, but it's when that aggressiveness starts turning into over-aggressiveness that some people may start to grow some suspicion of you.

BagSquad

Unvote, Vote: BagSquad

. Based on what everyone has posted so far, he seems most likely to be scum.

>:(

Vote:

iamausername

If you're going to break out an OMGUS at least write something.

I do want to know what iamusername found especially scummy about your earlier posts though.

The above was asked of you, which is answered with this?

I completely forgot this website existed, to be honest. I don't even lurk (and yes I am dangerous don't fuck with me bro).

Also, I'm still keeping my vote for iamausername, because he is mean, and talks a lot. Sounds like scum to me.

On top of it all, to find out that you "don't even lurk" because you never actually played/completed a game here bothers me.


Also, posts like this, won't help your case.

jesus christ you people

I'm thinking that Bag is probably town. Just like Vel brought up earlier about the game he signed up for in December, he doesn't seem to care. I really dislike lurkers and those who post zero content.

[Starbuck]

I think that Startransmission asked that you not call him that.

I brought up Halidon because I replaced him.

[Starbuck]

I'm thinking that Bag is probably town.

This seems like an odd conclusion to draw. I can see the possibility that he'd be acting as he has regardless of alignment, but I certainly don't see how his behaviour could be a

town

tell.

jeromus! What do you think of VRK?

Let me emphasize that sentence again.


I'm

thinking

that Bag is

probably

town.


I never said it was a town tell, please don't put words in my mouth. I'd greatly appreciate it.

[Starbuck]

Did you not read the history that VRK has provided or even looked him up yourself? I am just thinking that it's inexperience.

[Starbuck]

At this point, I'd rather have someone who wants to play in here and have him replaced rather than try and deal with someone who doesn't want to play at all. I'm all for a replacement.

[Starbuck]

I'd expect him to actually give a damn either way. It's rather null to me because it's obvious that he signed up and doesn't really want to play.

[Starbuck]

Jermous, Bouched was referring to Baggy in post 69, and not myself. But if it's something you caught in a different post then thank you!

[Starbuck]

The thing of it all is that he doesn't even have a playstyle.

[Starbuck]

@hiphop - Something I do any time I replace into a game is an analysis of my predecessor's posts along with a synopsis of the game. While you really only have like 3 posts of his to analyze, it's good to point them out.


@Bouchedufou - You know why we wanted Bag replaced. You listed it. Every person with a vote on him was because he was lurking, not because (most) knew him to be scum. You need to give hiphop a chance before you jump all over him.

[Starbuck]

Start, I said most in that sentence. I wasn't assuming all.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck, I think I have figured out the root of my confusion earlier. When you said you thought BagSquad was "probably town", I took that to mean "more likely to be town than the average player in this game", but from your responses, it seems like you actually just meant "is likely to be town because there are more townies than scum". Is this correct, or did you actually find him more likely town than everybody else?

I just don't like to assume that someone's scum based on the fact that he just doesn't care about the game at all, which Bag did not care. It sucks for hiphop to have to take over for such a shitty player. I know that I will not hold him accountable for BagSquad's actions.

[Starbuck]

Why is that weird? I really haven't found anything suspicious of you.

[Starbuck]

But you just said that it's weird that I haven't mentioned you. Are you hiding something that I should be asking you about?

[Starbuck]

First I would like to say is that I am not Bagsquad, so whatever he did to incriminate himself, don't hold it against me.
Second I wil not lurk. Unlike BagSquad, I actually mean that.

I also would like to say that I have played in theme based games(only a couple actually) on another site, so this will be my first newbie game on this site.
On the little experience I have, I have found out that when I vote for someone, they usually respond(if they want to play the game). This gives the game more activity, and that is what I want.

So my vote(right now anyways) will go to the lucky person:

Vote:iamausername

Crazy, you might just want to re-read things. He stated the answer to your question when he replaced in.

[Starbuck]

Bouched, you can only use the "I am new" excuse for so long. You are also using this excuse against another new player to this site which brings you no merit. Your reasoning here says nothing about you being confused about hiphop's experience:

Now I'm getting confused. Do we take what hiphop says at face value? The main accusations against baggy from what I read were:
a) unresponsive
b) replies were nonsense.

Now hiphop comes along and says he will be responsive, and try to do something. What now?

You say no sarcasm was intended, but I sense quite a bit of sarcasm in this post.


Why do you think he's trying too hard? He walked into a horrible situation when he replaced Bag. What would you do if you were in his position?

He had to convince us that Bag was a bad poster? You seem pretty convinced here:

On baggy again, I think I agree with Starbuck. Reading over Baggy's history again, it seems as if he's the kind of guy who starts and then just leaves. Of course, it's difficult to tell because he started off confirming like everyone else quite quickly. However, past that he just didn't really do anything.
The good news is that baggy has a 72hour deadline to reply, then 48 hours after that. If he doesn't, then I'd go with Starbuck in that he's a jerk who can't decide whether he can be bothered or not, plus the Mod gets us a substitute. Which doesn't mean the substitute is off the hook of course, but at least we'd get somebody who'll post a reply.

So baggy? Are you out there? If you are, please remember that deadline. If not, get him sacked already!

I think you are being very vindictive because he is now voting for you. It seems as though you are overreacting because he found you out.

@hiphop again: Like I asked the first time, you say you want a response from people. What response do you want from me? In the same vein, what response did you want from This vote doesn't even seem to be targeted at trying to get information. Now you're randomly voting around because I asked some questions (although you did think I was targeting you) and you didn't like me?

Why do you think a vote should only be used to garner information? It seems that hiphop senses that he found scum and is therefore voting for the scummiest player in his eyes, which is what a person should do. You are accusing him of randomly voting around. His vote on you isn't at all random. Did you not read his post? He gave a reason as to why he was voting you.

Why don't you go back and re-read a bit before your next post. We are only on page 5 and it seems like you already need to re-read what has taken place.

[Starbuck]

I wasn't being vindictive.

This from post 116 says that you are unsure if you are feeling vindictive. You don't state that you are not.

Or am I just feeling vindictive because now he's voted for me?

Also, hiphop wasn't my main suspicion at the time- I was more worried about Jeromus because of his fewer posts due to recharging problems.

You seem to continuously be concerned with those who are not posting as much. That's quite a tunnel vision you have going there. While lurking can be a scum tell, lurking should not be the only thing you are focused on.

2. Answering your question, I think votes should gather info because votes are mainly a way of attracting attention, and should be accompanied with a question or something for once that attention is attracted.

According to you, every single vote should garner information. If someone has a legitimate case on someone, they shouldn't state their case and vote? They must ask questions or regurgitate old information? I'm not saying that hiphop's reasoning is bad or good, but he has stated a reason along with his vote, even if it is semi-OMGUS.

Stop telling me to re-read, I HAVE re-read. Many times, looking for descrepencies. While you haven't even bothered to look up your claims, and start accusing me of being vindictive and over-reacting.

Maybe I should ask you, Starbuck, why you first tried to convince us that baggy was innocent (and, admittedly, I believed you, since there was something in what you said). Then you accuse me of being a bad player, tell me to re-read while at the same time twist what was actually said. I’m not going to vote for Starbuck yet, because maybe she’s right and hiphop isn’t scum. However, I’ll FoS you, because if hiphop is scum, then you’ve got some explaining to do.

I haven't bothered to look up my claims? I've been rather thorough in all of my posts. This right here is yet another overreaction.

Where did I try to convince that baggy was innocent? I said he could probably be town or he could probably be scum. He obviously didn't care about the game and most of the votes on him were for lurking, including yours. I, along with others before I replaced in, suggested that he be replaced. I never said he was innocent.

I never accused you of being a bad player. I take this an appeal to emotion. I suggested that you should re-read because you were contradicting yourself quite a bit.

So you are FOSing me now, why? I really don't understand your reasoning.

I suggest that if you are going to accuse me of these things that you bring up the posts rather than grasp at straws.

I am going to go with my feeling right now. Since Startran is no longer voting for hiphop, I’m going to vote: hiphop. A reminder, just in case: nobody else vote for hiphop now. If through your own analysis feel he's mafia, then FoS him. We want the day to go the full time.

So your reasoning for voting hiphop is because startransmission isn't no longer voting him?

[Starbuck]

Mod: Jeromus's last post is on July 30th. We are now well past 72 hours, will he be getting replaced?

[Starbuck]

Mod: Jeromus's last post is on July 30th. We are now well past 72 hours, will he be getting replaced?

Funny you accuse me of not reading, and then ask this question. We already had one example showing that it's 48 hours from the prod not 72 hours from the last post.

I went to the front page where I read this

Please try to post at least every 72 hours, and please inform me if you will be away for longer. If don't, I will prod you; If you don't respond in-thread within 48 hours, I'll replace you.

It has been well past 72 hours since his LAST POST on Thu Jul 30, 2009, at 6:39 am. 72 hours from that was Sunday at 6:39 am, when he should have been prodded. 48 hours since then which would have been yesterday morning.

There hasn't been an indication from the mod as to whether or not he has made contact with Jeromus.

I did do my homework before I asked the question.

[Starbuck]

And btw, my time might be different from yours since I do live in Sicily currently.

[Starbuck]

Why August 6th? The rule is to reply in the thread. This is assuming the Jeromus has not had PM contact with the mod.

[Starbuck]

Ok, that's where I am mixed up. I assumed the prod happened Sunday which would mean he should already be replaced.

[Starbuck]

The only reason I brought up Jeromus's absence was due to Bouched only targeting lurkers and replacements.

[Starbuck]

And in addition to that crazy accused me of contradicting myself, which I did not.

[Starbuck]

It was part of it.

Currently, what I'm trying to do is get Bouched to make some actual cases rather than what he's doing now. He's more or less tunneling on the replacements/lurkers, and has been contradicting himself all over.

I've been going through and pointing out his contradictions in hope that he will answer my questions, and maybe take some time and not take things personally as this is just a game.

[Starbuck]

In addition to the above, I understand that he is new and I'm trying to help him learn, and see why some of his logic may be faulty.

[Starbuck]

Maemuki, you really haven't added much of anything with substance. An analysis of your posts in iso:

-Random vote on Crazypianist

-Intro of yourself, nothing game related

-Unvote your RVS. You think startransmission is suspicious because he's fiery, but he doesn't look scummy yet. But you are on the same page with the rest of us about BagSquad.

-No defined opinion of Bouched, seems a bit suspicious, but not a major problem. Annoyed with Bag. Apologies for not writing a lot because you are confused.

-No substance. Hopes Bag doesn't forget about the game.

-Nothing's going on. Doesn't want to get prodded and "so I just post stuff about Baggy because that's all the clues we have right now".

-Says I have a point that Baggy doesn't even have a playstyle.

-Tells hiphop that we do know there are two mafia, and that we were waiting for a response from Baggy because he was the main suspicion. Assumes that the rest of the village doesn't have another suspicion because she doesn't have one. But thinks when Baggy was being pressured his partner in crime could have showed up.

-More non substance, but doesn't understand the last 2 previous sentences written by hiphop.

-Makes an excuse about being inactive because she has nothing to say. Doesn't think hiphop is the scummiest player, and thinks his vote has no justification. Wants to wait more.


You've been doing quite a lot of waiting and active lurking. There's been quite a bit of dialogue. Care to way in on any of it?

[Starbuck]

*EDBWOP - "Care to way in on any of it?" should be "Care to weigh in on any of it?"

I fail at Engrish.

[Starbuck]

I'm a little peeved at this latest prod. Frankly, this went from a very promising game to a fucking wash. Once people stop arguing semantics about when people should be replaced and start asking real questions my interest will be revived. Many of you (our IC included) seem to be content with waiting for answers to outdated questions. Or arguing about things that have nothing to do with finding and lynching scum.

So- if you feel that I'm being "overly aggressive" or "snarky" then mop up your tears and deal with it. This game needs some balls, and if I'm lynched for providing them then so be it. I'll post my analysis of all current and past players within the next few hours.

I agree with you. The whole point of the game is to find scum. Otherwise why do we play? Starbuck I would rather have the beginners learn, not by you poking holes in their logic, but by having them deal with problems that they created. Let them learn, and me, as the game goes on. If you think someone is scum attack them not someone who you believe is town, let the somebody who actually believes he is scum attack him.

@Startransmission I would love for your analysis, and you being "overly aggressiveness" would help out the game greatly. I believe we should all be more aggressive.

Yes, people have been waiting, but I haven't been. I've been continuously posting and asking questions.

The point of Mafia is to find scum. The point of Newbie games is to help Newbies get used to playing Mafia. So you want those of us that are more experienced to just not say anything when we see a faulty logic? We shouldn't point it out and say why it's faulty? If you noticed, Bouched was targeting the lurkers and replacements, rather than making actual cases, which was the whole reason why we were discussing the prod.

I didn't want to argue about semantics, but it was brought up that I was contradicting myself. So I showed that I did my homework before asking for a prod. Was I not supposed to do that? Was I supposed to let something as stupid as a prod possibly be used as a case?

I have asked plenty of questions of Bouched. Now I have found that Maemuki really hasn't added anything at all to the game.

Hiphop, please list examples how I am poking holes. That's quite a scummy accusation when you have nothing to back it up.

[Starbuck]

I was referring to bouched. You found faulty logic with bouched, so that is what I was refering to when I said "poking holes".

More accusations but no proof.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck

Here's where I'm the most undecided. A good player, who has been active since replacing in for Halidon. Reading back through has given me some pause however. She subbed in while Bag was under fire, and was soon to be replaced himself. In her opening analysis she expressed the opinion that Bag was probably town. At the time I wasn't willing to argue with her, I was suspecting the same thing (don't get too excited iamausersname, Bag was still my top scum pick at that time). It's when Hiphop replaces in that a few things start to bug me.

@hiphop - Something I do any time I replace into a game is an analysis of my predecessor's posts along with a synopsis of the game. While you really only have like 3 posts of his to analyze, it's good to point them out.

This seems like advice from one scumbuddy to another, albeit good advice. I myself asked hiphop for his analysis of Bag and other players. Still, after brushing off Bags potential guilt, this sticks out to me.

My first question is where did I brush off Bag's potential guilt? Bag didn't add anything to the game as he didn't care. Out of 9 people and 2 scum, he has a better ratio of being town than scum, and that's just common sense and the reason why I said he's probably town.

If you go back and look at any of my completed games that I have replaced into (all listed in my Wiki), you will notice that I do the same thing every time I replace in. I analyze the game to that point and I also make sure to analyze my predecessor's posts. Since hiphop is fairly new, I wanted to give him that piece of advice, because I've seen where replacements don't analyze their predecessor's posts and it ends up biting them in the ass. If he makes himself scummy after that (which imho he has), then it's all on him.

I just don't like to assume that someone's scum based on the fact that he just doesn't care about the game at all, which Bag did not care. It sucks for hiphop to have to take over for such a shitty player. I know that I will not hold him accountable for BagSquad's actions.

Again, I agree in principle, as I myself unvoted hiphop when he came into the game. He did not deserve Bags votes. But this does seem like one more instance of assuming that Bag was innocent, and therefore giving hiphop an entirely clean slate.

I honestly don't see this. I will say it again, Bag did not care about the game and made that blatantly obvious. If Bag was in anyway scummy, I definitely would not suggest giving his replacement a clean slate. It's up to hiphop to dig himself out of the hole that Bag dug, and since most votes were on Bag due to inactivity, I thought that it would be fair.

When looked at one post at a time there is nothing scummy about what Starbuck is saying or doing. In fact I give her credit for being consistent. Taken together though, and maybe I'm looking too hard, I do get the impression of her taking hiphop under her wing.

I really was not trying to do this. Since I am an SE (more or less), I have been trying to help those newer players get used to the way things are normally done here on Mafiascum. When I first started here, I got stuck with IC's and SE's that really didn't want to help orientate newbies. I also was not trying to have a debate with bouched. I was trying to get him to focus on others (rather than lurkers and replacements) that quite possibly could be scum. He was tunneling very hard. I hope his latest silence is due to the fact that he's re-reading and trying to come up with some better cases.

Her debate with bouchedufou has given me further pause. Post 118 stands out especially. She says she detects sarcasm from bouche, where I see none. She (yet again) defends hiphop

Why do you think he's trying too hard? He walked into a horrible situation when he replaced Bag. What would you do if you were in his position?

Assumes he is town and defends his vote

I think you are being very vindictive because he is now voting for you. It seems as though you are overreacting because he found you out.

And then shoots down Bouches opinion on hiphops value as a voter...

It seems that hiphop senses that he found scum and is therefore voting for the scummiest player in his eyes, which is what a person should do. You are accusing him of randomly voting around. His vote on you isn't at all random.

When in fact hiphop has thrown his vote at everybody who engages him in debate.

If you noticed during your analysis, I did say that hiphop's vote was rather scummy. He listed a reason but not that great of a reason. As I have said earlier, Bouched has been going after replacements and lurkers. With the situation that hiphop walked into, he would have to try very hard to get others to change their opinion of him/Bag. I don't see how that first quote is me assuming that he's town and defending his vote. I asked Bouched what he would do if he was in that situation. You strawmanned that quite heartily.

Bouched voted for hiphop after hiphop voted for him with barely any reason. That is textbook OMGUS. I did not shoot down his opinion, if that's the way he feels then so be it, but it's not a strong leg to stand on.

Also, hiphop wasn't my main suspicion at the time- I was more worried about Jeromus because of his fewer posts due to recharging problems.

You seem to continuously be concerned with those who are not posting as much. That's quite a tunnel vision you have going there. While lurking can be a scum tell, lurking should not be the only thing you are focused on.

I do agree that lurking should not be the only thing people are focused on, but it is something to be concerned about. I don't see how you can criticize somebody for being suspicious with lurkers, especially active lurkers like Jeromus.

@Starbuck I know it seems like I'm picking on you and building a case, but it just so happens that I have time for just one analysis today. My weekend is just hours away, and I'll get to everybody else.

I am suspicious of lurkers as well, but they aren't my only focus as they are with Bouched. It's why I asked earlier if Jeromus was getting replaced with someone who can actively take part. If you can't take part or know that you have limited access, imho you should not sign up for a game like this that requires your time and effort to complete. And that's out of respect to the other players.

[Starbuck]

@hiphop - Just where was I lecturing? Part of playing a game like this is to point out faulty logic, and not to just let it slide. I find it odd that you, being so recently near the chopping block, would propose something as audacious as this. As VRK said, if someone posts something that isn't well thought out, it gives us more information to work with. So according to you, we shouldn't point out faulty logic because it should be explanation enough, rather than it could quite possibly be a scum tell?

Also you shouldn't assume in this game either, just because I haven't voted yet, doesn't mean I don't have my suspicions. I would like to have the active lurkers weigh in a bit more.



@bouched - Thank you for trying. I really wasn't saying you were a bad player as others have tried to allude to. It just seemed you were rushing through posts rather than taking your time.

[Starbuck]

Where have I not weighed in? You are strawmanning quite a bit here, hiphop.

[Starbuck]

I don't see that knowing bouched's alignment would be particularly more helpful than knowing anyone else's, and I don't like this as a reason to support his lynch at all. Lynching someone because "it will be useful to know their alignment" is a good line for scum to push, because no one can say they were wrong if the player in question turns up town.

Do you think Mae's lurking has been more egregious than jeromus?

---

Lynches I would support at the moment:

jeromus
VRK
startrans

in that order.

Unvote, Vote: jeromus

Why do you not vote for vrk instead if you think the vrk push is something a scum would pull? Lurkers don’t always have to be scum. Although it does bother me that he has time to answer the prod yet not make a substantial post at least once in a while.

@hiphop - Sometimes voting for someone who is lurking is to put pressure on them. If they see they are being voted, then they *might* turn up and we *might* get a substantial post out of them.

[Starbuck]

I've seen it more often than not that people respond when they see that they are being suspected.

[Starbuck]

Currently, I find hiphop the scummiest.

On hiphop, he replaced in and I tried to give him benefit of the doubt because he did replace a really horrible player. I really didn't understand his vote on Iamausername since we were already out of RVS.

As for if I had to lynch someone, I would lynch bouched, the person who I am voting for, otherwise why would I vote for him in the first place?

A vote can be used for a number of things. You can place the L-1 vote causing someone to claim or you can place a vote on someone that's lurking in hopes that the pressure of a vote might bring them back to the thread. I don't like that you don't even consider either of these options when I brought up the reasoning behind Iamausername's vote on Jeromus.

Lurkers don’t always have to be scum. Although it does bother me that he has time to answer the prod yet not make a substantial post at least once in a while.

As of late, he seems to be trying to divert attention from himself and Jeromus. I knew what Iamausername was trying to do, and when I pointed it out, hiphop argued with me that I was wrong. It seems like he is trying to keep that player spot alive.


This bothers me:

I wasn’t accusing you. I was just wondering if you find school fun. School is where people are lectured. To me that is boring, and games are supposed to be fun. If nobody follows bouched’s logic, shouldn’t that be an explanation enough, that his point is wrong. If he realizes this he will change anyways. Faulty logic, holes in text, they are the same thing to me.

It's like he doesn't want us to dig deeper.


I also don't like the reasoning he gave for his Bouched vote.

Just because he said he has only played themed base games, doesn't qualify him as non-mafia.
He also targeted me first, after I only made 1 post.

His vote changes have boggled me. In his short tenure, he has changed his vote 4 times.

hiphop's votes -
Iamausername in first post
Startransmission in third post
Bouched in eighth post
Maemuki in his latest

If you are so sure that Bouched is scum and if you are so against a vote being used to put pressure on someone, why this change of heart?

Vote: hiphop

[Starbuck]

I've replaced into games where we have been hours from a deadline. I would hope we have one before night hits.

[Starbuck]

^ That is the 5th time hiphop has changed his vote.

I'm definitely staying with my vote.

[Starbuck]

And just like that as soon as a vote was placed, Mae showed up.

Mae, you are the other person that I am most suspicious of.

You are doing what is called active lurking. Please start posting something of substance rather than poking your head in whenever you see your name.

[Starbuck]

YAY for a replacement!

[Starbuck]

Responding to an unneeded prod.

[Starbuck]

hiphop, it takes 5 votes to lynch, you are currently at 3.

[Starbuck]

@Petunho - You just re-read everything and you say how Bag was acting. He didn't care at all about the game. Most votes that were on Bag were on him because of his inactivity, rather than actual scumminess. hiphop had to take over for someone who signed up for a game but didn't fulfill his promise to finish out the game or even participate. I am holding hiphop accountable for his own actions, not the actions of Bag. I have found him suspicious since he came in with that first post and vote on iamausername, but since he's new to the site and that this is a newbie game, I wanted to give him benefit of the doubt. He knows the ropes better than Bouched due to his other experiences, but he has been acting scummy, which is why my vote is where it is.

[Starbuck]

Also Petunho, the deadline is something most of us are very well aware of. I, along with a few others, are no where near the 48 hr prod rule and have voted and are happy with our votes.

I don't like being prodded when I have been active. Next time, please read my sig as you are right around my time zone and know when the hours of sleep are and when the hours of a normal work day are.

[Starbuck]

Here is where you are wrong. Bag did nothing at all. He signed up for the game and then didn't care to play when it began. It has nothing to do with whatever role they both shared. It's the fact that Bag began this game and did nothing whatsoever to contribute. Hiphop, has since, replaced in and has made himself look scummy all on his own and with nothing to do with Bag.

[Starbuck]

I'm in definite agreement. Maemuki has been the epitome of active lurking.

According to my unofficial vote count, this is where we are currently at:


Day 1, Vote Count
hiphop (3) <- crazypianist1116, bouchedufou, Starbuck
Maemuki (3) <- Petunho, startransmission, iamausername
iamausername <- hiphop

Not voting: Maemuki, Vel-Rahn Koon.

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.




Maemuki is my #2 suspicion, and this showing up but not posting anything but fluff is irksome. She hasn't contributed at all to the game, and has posted just enough to keep from being prodded.

Unvote: hiphop
Vote: Maemuki

Maemuki is now at L-1.

[Starbuck]

Maemuki, claim please.



Also, hiphop has not left my radar, but at least he is posting substance, rather than fluff.

[Starbuck]

Not in the least, you signed up for a game but you only post so you don't look inactive.

Give us a thorough post, show that you care.

[Starbuck]

You promised over and over again that you would give us something of substance and you haven't.

[Starbuck]

Don't worry about the unvote part hiphop, the rules on the front say that you don't have to include it to change your vote.

[Starbuck]

I need to do some re-reading now.

[Starbuck]

If you aren't going to be around to participate, I'd ask that you be replaced. If you are, though, and you have the time to put in to the game, I say stay.

[Starbuck]

You didn't HAVE TO vote. You never HAVE TO vote unless we are in a lynch or lose situation. If you felt she was town, why did you vote for her?

[Starbuck]

@hiphop

On Maemuki

This is what you said prior to hammering Maemuki (note, the bolding is me emphasizing):

I will not change my vote until the deadline gets closer. Lurking is bad,

but she hasn't posted anything that appears scummy.

That is my problem. She won't give us her opinion, so I will wait a little more. Maemuki vote, please.

It's also noted that you were voting for iamausername prior to switching to Mae.

You say she hasn't posted anything that appears scummy to you, but you follow it up with this:

Should I cast my vote now? She has had long enough time

After this post, we get this

from this game. 25% chance of catching scum with a lynch, 0% with a night kill. I got to stick with the odds.

vote:Maemuki

for a lynch.

@petunho Is being too active a bad thing? Imo it isn’t. By the way did you win that game that which you did what maemuki is doing?

So long maemuki, good luck with any future games.

So you say over and over again that you don't think she's scum, but then you vote based on odds?

In post 250, you then say that you would not have lynched her if you knew she was town. You say all along up to your vote that you think that she is town. Then you say that you were against voting for her because besides lurking she didn't really convey any scummy behavior. Your reasons for voting her are because she asked and because of odds so you HAD to vote.

You have contradicted yourself quite well here.


I really don't like your WIFOM in post 246.

I am also concerned as to why you don't understand how we now have information based on the lynch and NK via the following post:

Can you tell me how we have any more information from before the NK and the lynch until after, besides knowing that mae and iamausername are towns, because their comments only reflect what they think, and they are not scum?

@ VRK - I am not liking this active lurking at all. Please post more, as an IC and runner of the Newbie Queue, I do expect more from you. I do understand that real life issues come up and that you are a college professor. Exams > MS, but that should be over now.



@Petunho - If you go back in my posts, you will see that my second suspicion was of Mae. Her active lurking (coming in enough just to post something small and then leave again) had me feeling that she was in fact scum. Hiphop did not leave my radar and I said that as well. His hammer of her, especially after his contradictions that I found at the top of this post, are extremely scummy in my eyes.

Vote: Hiphop

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck:

Starbuck: Why did you change your vote for Mae and

didn't pursue hiphop's lynch?

I would need you to answer also on the highlighted section of my question. I want to know why did you start to pursue on Mae's lynch and didn't try still get hiphop lynched? So the bottom question is why did you change your vote?

I answered your question above. Did you not read my post?

[Starbuck]

If you refer to the following posts:

Post 147
Post 191

You will see that along with hiphop, I also found Mae suspicious.

And here is the post where I voted for her and my reasoning behind it.
Post 220


And if you refer to my post 221, I did say that hiphop had not left my radar.




@Petunho - It irks me that I have answered all of these questions previously and you are still asking them. I just looked at myself in iso and found them in less than 2 minutes. Please do your research and not be lazy and have others do it for you.

[Starbuck]

hiphop, did you manage to forget that iamausername is dead?

[Starbuck]

Where did I imply that he wasn't?

You quoted him and then asked him a question.

[Starbuck]

Bouched, when someone is lynched and we go into night all the votes from the previous day reset.

[Starbuck]

I honestly don't like how you are all caught up on the numbers. The games are preset in the F11 setup. 9 players with two Mafia is known at the start. Did you not read any of the valuable links in the first post of the Newbie Queue before you signed up?


Why do you need me to ask you to claim?

[Starbuck]

@Startransmission

1. Starbuck is scum. Her main candidate clearly fell through; with time running out the hiphop wagon was sputtering. Three votes quickly stack against another viable candidate. She has (as had virtually everybody else) already brought up her issues with Mae, so a vote would have precedent in argument. Soon (within an hour) after the third vote comes in she strikes, putting Mae at L-1 and avoiding being the hammer. This part is important, she doesn't wait too long for somebody else to grab the L-2 spot, she nabs it quite quickly. Nothing left to do now but hope that either VRK or hiphop takes the bait. Either way it's a win, either her primary candidate for a lynch is stuck with the hammer, or the IC is.

That's quite an accusation to make. I had two candidates that I thought were scummy, and Mae had enough time to post a quick thought but never give us any type of analysis. I voted for her because on Day 1, a lynch is better than no lynch, and therefore we can garner information. Hiphop placed that hammer rather quickly, even after Mae said she was town. I wanted more information out of Mae, and she wouldn't give any, which is why I did not remove my vote from her.

I'd like to jump to Petunhos excellent post 269.

Petunho's post 269

Sorry I quoted the whole thing, I'm actually not sure how to link a post. The point is that Petunho lays out very well why Starbucks vote change is questionable. Petunho actually first asks Starbuck about this vote change in post 258. Starbuck responds,

@Petunho - If you go back in my posts, you will see that my second suspicion was of Mae. Her active lurking (coming in enough just to post something small and then leave again) had me feeling that she was in fact scum. Hiphop did not leave my radar and I said that as well. His hammer of her, especially after his contradictions that I found at the top of this post, are extremely scummy in my eyes.

Which is a reasonable response. But like I said earlier in my debate with hiphop, everyone can say that they were suspicious of Mae before her wagon took off.

If you look at my post 147, I did an iso analysis of Maemuki and listed quite a few reasons why she was scummy well before I placed my vote on her. So yes, I did say that I was suspicious of Mae before her wagon took off.

You also seem to be piggybacking quite a bit off of Petunho and it's noted.

Petunho isn't satisfied though, and that's where 269 comes in. A post I obviously really like. A response from Starbuck would've been great, but instead...

As for yesterday's lynch, it was quite obvious when it was coming down to the wire that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched. 2 more people would have to vote for hiphop and the only candidates were startransmission, Maemuki, iamausername, PEtunho, and Vel-Rahn Koon (keep in mind this was before Starbuck changed the vote). VRK obviously wasn't going to be on. Startransmission had already said he thought Maemuki was more scummy than hiphop as had you. Even if Maemuki had voted for hiphop, there wouldn't have been enough votes on him to lynch. And Starbuck already said that she found Maemuki suspicious.

It's obvious that a lynch on someone suspicious is better than no lynch and that's why Starbuck changed her vote from #1 to #2.

FoS: Petunho

Immediately dismisses Petunhos logic, which I feel is sound, and strongly defends Starbucks vote. Also reminds everybody that Starbuck never liked Mae in the first place, making her vote a natural switch. Then puts an FOS on Petunho... for what? For questioning Starbuck?

While I really don't understand Crazy's FOS on Petunho because I get a town read from him, he is right with the fact that I was suspicious of Mae well before her train and I linked the post above.

In 275 Petunho expresses his frustration at Crazy answering for Starbuck. @ Petunho... do you mind pointing out other instances? You say it's not the first time...

I am actually curious of this as well and would like Petunho to answer this.

[Starbuck]

Plus, he seems unwilling to claim. I read this as either he's got a non-vanilla town role, or he's mafia- can someone tell me whether this is normally correct, or if I'm wrong, how this is wrong? I think the reason we want you to claim now, rather than just before the lynch, as you say you'd prefer to do, is that if your claim comes out as true, then

we

have time to choose someone else to lynch.

This is where you learn to lash out at two people at the same time instead of tuneling on only one, because I will not claim until it gets closer. I know what will happen if I claimed now, so I won't. Just pick two people who scummy individually and attack both. It isn't that hard.

I'm rather bothered by the above statement. You were at L-1 and were very close to being lynched, but you didn't claim. And now you just plain ol' refuse, I don't like this.

I think he did find someone who's scummy, and I don't like that you brush off his suspicions of you here.

Secondly, who is this we business. You are an individual. You don't need other people to decide for you. Make your own reasoning.

Bouched obviously meant the town with his statement of

I think the reason we want you to claim now, rather than just before the lynch, as you say you'd prefer to do, is that if your claim comes out as true, then we have time to choose someone else to lynch.

And he's absolutely right. Why do you brush this off so easily?

@startransmission how? Here we were arguing together and you never convinced me on one point. You make one post on the person who I thought was town, and I am enlightened.
For that
Fos:Starbuck I am not entirely convinced, but she moved up on my scummy list.

Why couldn't you have done that earlier?

I don't like this at all. Not because you are FOS'ing me, but because you clearly state no reasons of your own.

[Starbuck]

I'll definitely claim if I hit L-1, unlike yourself who did not.

[Starbuck]

Now that I am at L-1, I claim town.

[Starbuck]

So you had to wait for me to claim, in order for you to do so?

[Starbuck]

technically, I already claimed town in post 288. I said I was not scum. Which in this game means I am town, because there are no neutral roles. Like I said I thought when someone asked me to claim, I thought claiming meant role claiming, which I still won't do until it gets closer to lynch day.

In fact now that I think about it claiming town is stupid. Of course people are going to claim town, so why ask them to claim?

Everybody is going to say that they are not scum.

If I was the doctor or cop, I would have said doctor or cop. I'm just a plain Vanilla townie.

[Starbuck]

So, this means hiphop is either a mafia or special role, since he's unwilling to claim, right?

He wasn't unwilling as soon as I claimed, which I find fishy all in and of itself.

[Starbuck]

And I claimed my role, you still have not.

[Starbuck]

And I claimed my role, you still have not.

What about it? I will explain why I did not claim, when I claim.

Please re-read this post.

[Starbuck]

I'm trying to prove the fact that you still have not claimed your role and I am completely out in the open. What are you hiding, hiphop?

[Starbuck]

I'm trying to prove the fact that you still have not claimed your role and I am completely out in the open. What are you hiding, hiphop?

This role claiming business is getting tiring. You both claim town... if you're looking for something more out of hiphop (who is not at L-1) then that's fishing. I suppose I was hoping you'd say "I'm trying to prove the fact that I'm town and you're scum".

He's the one who said he wasn't fully revealing himself yet, I did not put those words in his mouth.

[Starbuck]

@Start - You basically just said every single reason as to why my vote is on hiphop.

[Starbuck]

EDBWOP: That should be "@Crazy"

[Starbuck]

I'm definitely going to need to do some re-reading. Hiphop flipping town surprised me quite a bit.

[Starbuck]

@start - Where did I deny ever defending him? That's a very strong accusation and if you are going to make it, I would like to see a direct quote.

I also DID make my case on Mae and DID state that besides hiphop that she was scummiest to me. I was wrong. Unfortunately now, we are in LYLO. We need to be very careful. You came right out of the gate voting and I think you are trying to push for a quicklynch.

[Starbuck]

The only time I defended hiphop was when he first replaced in because he did replace a very shitty player. I did want to give him a chance to redeem himself since most of the votes that were on him were due to his predecessor's lurking.

Where did I piggyback? I made my own accusations of Mae via post 147, and I made my own accusations of hiphop. So if you are going to say that I was piggybacking, I'd like you to provide an example.

[Starbuck]

I posted my V/LA in the V/LA thread. I have military stuff (command wide inspection/inventory) going on all this week and a bit of next. I am off and on. I'm following along, but I really don't have time right this second to make the analytical post that I want to. I should be able to catch up on all my games on Sunday. I apologize for the inconvenience but that's the way of life when you are in the military.

[Starbuck]

Bouched, it seems to me like you are just sitting back trying to let everyone else do the dirty work for you.

[Starbuck]

Welcome Zorblag!

[Starbuck]

I'm rather concerned about Bouched because he seems to have been riding the coattails of everyone and really not making his own cases.

I'm also concerned about Start because it seems like, particularly after post 416, that you are invested in this game to win because you are on the scum team.


How many claims do we have left? Just Crazy and Bouched right?

[Starbuck]

I want to win this one.

This one means more to me than most other games

[Starbuck]

I was leaning townie for you, but that seems like a very serious scumslip.

Vote: Startransmission

[Starbuck]

I think the other mafia is Bouched.

[Starbuck]

I'm here. Responding to prod, I have a case I'm working on in Notepad and it will be up this afternoon.

[Starbuck]

My thoughts on Start and why I voted him:

Startransmission started out the game with a pretty aggressive tone.

He was definitely overaggressive towards Bouched when answering his question about a no lynch in post 17, and towards BagSquad in post 28. He apologizes for his swearing in post 44, but I took his comment as being aggressive, even without the cuss word.

I also do not care for post 152. He's right in the fact that the discussion had turned away from the subject at hand, but a stupid thing (like asking for a prod) was going to be used for a case, and I felt I needed to correct that information. It bothers me that he pretty much didn't do anything to help move the conversation along, but could post long enough to complain about it.


Something bothers me here:

Unvote, Vote: BagSquad

. Based on what everyone has posted so far, he seems most likely to be scum.

>:(

Vote:

iamausername

If you're going to break out an OMGUS at least write something.

I do want to know what iamusername found especially scummy about your earlier posts though.

BagSquad didn't have any earlier posts. His first one of the game was that vote on iamausername. I'm wondering why he couldn't be bothered to scroll up to re-read and see this.


In post 80, he admits to having an eye on Maemuki, and he seems to be speculating a bit. Knowing now that both Mae and hiphop are town, it seems his was trying to deflect suspicion. His very next post 92, he backpedals off that pretty quickly. In post 215, he jumps right back on Maemuki again and votes her. We don't hear from him again until 5 days later, well after Maemuki has been lynched.

For most of Day 2, he tunnels on hiphop. He keeps on about hiphop until Petunho makes a post about me. He seems to piggyback on all of what Petunho said and come up with nothing of his own. He defends this a few times in following posts, but I really don't buy it. The opportunity was there for him to piggyback off of a decent case, and he took it. He backs off, and then goes back onto hiphop right before the deadline.

He does bother me with the fact of voting straight off at the beginning of Day 3. His whole case on me is based off of everything Petunho said. Since Petunho flipped town, he can lean on that fact to try and show that he's pro-town.

I don't like the following quote at all:

My case is simple and kinda weak in that it makes one big assumption, and that only I and scum know that I'm town.

I also don't like how he is setting up actions for tomorrow, basically knowing that he's going to be here.

I have refused to get into distracting discussions as to who the partner might be, because that conversation is academic unless we lynch scum today. That is a discussion for tomorrow, if it comes.

One of the main things that bother me is that he barely if ever mentions Bouched or talks to him. When he does though, he seems to coach him along.

Throughout the game, he's constantly being prodded and getting annoyed with getting prodded, but pretty evenly actively lurking, but here at the end, he really wants to finish the game. I'm really thinking that the only reason he held on this long is that he thinks he can get a scum win.

[Starbuck]

I brought up the point about Bag's earlier posts because it seemed like you were just rushing through trying to pin anything on anyone.

I didn't lie or misrepresent you. I am stating the situation as how I see it. You took the opportunity to start a case on me AFTER Petunho already had laid out everything. You may not mention him, but you parrot everything he says. You started pushing for my lynch and when you saw that it wasn't going to happen, you swung back around and hammered hiphop.

You keep repeating that you never even brought up Petunho's posts or questions, but your entire case reflects everything that he said first.

I don't like the quote because you do admit that your case is kind of weak. You keep advocating your townness like you have something else to prove it.

I don't really buy your reasoning for not paying any attention to Bouched, and you don't even see your lack of interaction with him until I point it out now. I definitely think that you are bluffing.

[Starbuck]

Zorblag just replaced in and VRK had a lot going on.

This was my first time actually being mafia for almost an entire game. I think I did fairly well.

[Starbuck]

I actually did have real life stuff going on there for a bit, so my apologies there.

[Starbuck]

I actually started trying to be obvious hoping that it would be picked up. It really bothered me that Bouched was pretty much relying on everyone else, rather than build up his own cases. I know he's new and I was trying my hardest to be patient which was why I was trying to give advice.

[Starbuck]

And Petunho, you know we took you out because you were on top of us. No hard feelings, it's just business. =)

[Starbuck]

Thanks Zorblag, I look forward to playing a full game with you in the future.

[Starbuck]

Why not?

[Starbuck]

Elmo's the mod.