Newbie 817 (Game over!)

[hiphop]

First I would like to say is that I am not Bagsquad, so whatever he did to incriminate himself, don't hold it against me.
Second I wil not lurk. Unlike BagSquad, I actually mean that.

I also would like to say that I have played in theme based games(only a couple actually) on another site, so this will be my first newbie game on this site.
On the little experience I have, I have found out that when I vote for someone, they usually respond(if they want to play the game). This gives the game more activity, and that is what I want.

So my vote(right now anyways) will go to the lucky person:

Vote:iamausername

[hiphop]

What kind of question can I ask him? That confuses me. As I said in my first post at least when I vote for someone they respond like you just did. And I believe that Vel-Rahn Koon, an experienced player, said it would be better for them to defend themselves. This is a beginner's game, so we all, besides a few, are still trying to get a hold of the game.

By the way bouchedufou, I think it would be better if you got an avatar, this way when someone is skimming the posts and are looking for someone they can find that person's post easier.

Also in the games I played in the days were only 72 hours, so there was a lot more activity.

Do you honestly believe that the person that replaced BagSquad, a completely different person, would act the same as him. Don't try to connect us. Connect me for me and not to him. One thing I can say is I am not unresponsive, since I answered your post.

And if you want me to ask a question, What are you trying to prove with your above post?

[hiphop]

What I don't understand is wouldn't scum act the same as town? Scum want a lynch the same as town as long as it isn't their buddy. They can put a vote on anybody, and give a reason. As far as I am concerned, the only way I see scum showing up to everybody else is by their vote pattern. As for over aggressiveness, that could be the personallity, rather than scum.

I believe we can have two misses on a lynch, and still have the majority, but if we miss the first two lynches, we will have to be sure we lynch scum the next two times.

About the roles, are they random in a newbie game? Or are the mafia members given to an experienced player and a non experienced player.

As for Startransmission, I will do my best concerning that challenge.

I believe that in the mafia help rules, it says something like scum will draw attention that they are looking for scum. So iamausername has a point worth considering about Startransmission.

vote:Startransmission

[hiphop]

The questions asked of me. ok, I can answer those. First of all I explained that I don't know what to look for in a post. There really isn't any reason why scum should not act like townfolks, being that everybody is a real person, and should act like a real person. If I were scum, I still would act the way I do now. Why should I change? It is my personallity. The town do not know any more info than scum. One thing I did notice, as Starttransmission pointed out, activity stalled once everybody waited for bagsquad to respond. Fyi there are two mafia members not just one.

As for an analysis of my predecessor votes the first one was just a vote, I assume that he thought that that was one way to make his first post, was to vote for someone. THe problem with that is he didn't give a reason for it. Second post he said he will keep his vote being that Starttransmission was talking strange to him. As far as I am concerned that is not scum being that he wasn't changing his vote to follow who other people voted for. Third post I believe he gave up on the game, because he either couldn't handle the pressure of other people pressuring him, or he didn't have the time to play the game period. A little of both I presume. if there was any post I missed please tell me. If I were you I would of voted for him too. I hate lurkers, because they hurt the side that they are with, and they take the fun out of the game for everyone else.

As for looking for scum the first day, I agree with you 100 percent, I just said we only have two misses in the entire game, so we had better make our lynches count.

The only reason I didn't answer the questions the first time is because I didn't realize how important they were.

[hiphop]

@Mayemuki. I didn't mean two mafia groups, I meant two mafia members. There is nobody, but myself, and maybe you, that even comes close to defending me. I realized you do not have anybody else that you are putting pressure. I am still looking myself.

[hiphop]

sorry Maemuki
What I meant, is that there is no other fos on anyone else.

[hiphop]

I get it. If you were scum bouched would most likely be scum as well, since you said he is most likely town.

[hiphop]

@ iamusername What makes you think that bouched is more likely town than Maemuki?
Just because he said he has only played themed base games, doesn't qualify him as non-mafia.
He also targeted me first, after I only made 1 post.
Therefore,

unvote
vote:bouchedufou

[hiphop]

2, They were theme based on another site.

[hiphop]

@bouchedufou Why are you getting so worked up over one vote?

In my past experiences usually a vote from the scummiest player, does not get the votey worked up. Yet you seem to take it to heart. I believe you did the same thing when you were called on wheather you knew starbuck was a girl.
It is just one vote.

[hiphop]

A healthy reminder to the mod is always nice, but we should leave the mod duties to the mod, and play the game. If Jeromus does respond, then he is a lurker, but if he doesn't he will be replaced. His replacer should be given a chance to get acclimated to the game. In the mean the fos should be pointd elsewhere. Jeromus few posts do not say much about him.

For those who are convinced I am guilty and have a vote on me, and are waiting for others to vote me as well, can keep their votes on me, if that is what makes you happy, but look elsewhere as well. This way the game does not bog down.

[hiphop]

Your first post

Okay - F1rst!
If anyone else feels like posting, then I'd advise them to go right ahead, or I shall get bored D:
I'm gonna do this now -

Vote - iamausername

You seem like you're trying to hide behind your generic username...

What about us being bored since you are not posting?
Your second post says

I hate lurkers as much as any, my last game featured...I think it was 4 of them, by the end of it.

What are you doing right now? You are being hypocritical. Right now, bouchedufou has a right to target you, until you can start posting regularly, though he should also try to focus on another person as well.

The only reason I brought up Jeromus's absence was due to Bouched only targeting lurkers and replacements.

@ Starbuck if that was your case than so be it.

[hiphop]

First of all, why is everybody becoming inactive? Is it because they are not interested in the game?

Directed at my first two votes, I was trying to find a way that I could play this type of game that doesn’t have any cc’s. What is the best strategy? Is it better to draw attention to myself, so that people know what kind of personality I have, or to hide in the shadows, and not have anybody know what I am thinking? That kind of thing. This is a beginner’s game, and I want to learn the best way to fit me, before I attempt those larger games.

As for clarification on my vote for bouchedufou, he targeted me after one post, before that bagsquad made three posts, these three posts only showed he couldn’t handle pressure. bouchedufou is the person I am most suspicious of. Once everybody targeted bagsquad, it seemed to me as if he sat on the fence, throwing comments at bagsquad, but never committing to vote for him. I will vote for the person who I believe has a good chance of being scum, especially if there are no other votes on him.

After I voted for him he did an omgus vote on me, not the other way around.

As for the quote, scummiest player in the game, referring to the person who most people are suspicious of. Yes, I am referring to myself. I never said I was scum.

Hopefully your post crazypianist1116 will have people posting on what they think.

[hiphop]

@Maemuki I should put that as one of my choices. Who do you think is the scummiest player now? As bouched(can I call you this or would you prefer your whole name) said at least point your FOS. Or is there a downside to doing that?

[hiphop]

I'm a little peeved at this latest prod. Frankly, this went from a very promising game to a fucking wash. Once people stop arguing semantics about when people should be replaced and start asking real questions my interest will be revived. Many of you (our IC included) seem to be content with waiting for answers to outdated questions. Or arguing about things that have nothing to do with finding and lynching scum.

So- if you feel that I'm being "overly aggressive" or "snarky" then mop up your tears and deal with it. This game needs some balls, and if I'm lynched for providing them then so be it. I'll post my analysis of all current and past players within the next few hours.

I agree with you. The whole point of the game is to find scum. Otherwise why do we play? Starbuck I would rather have the beginners learn, not by you poking holes in their logic, but by having them deal with problems that they created. Let them learn, and me, as the game goes on. If you think someone is scum attack them not someone who you believe is town, let the somebody who actually believes he is scum attack him.

@Startransmission I would love for your analysis, and you being "overly aggressiveness" would help out the game greatly. I believe we should all be more aggressive.

[hiphop]

I was referring to bouched. You found faulty logic with bouched, so that is what I was refering to when I said "poking holes".

[hiphop]

@Starbuck I wasn’t accusing you. I was just wondering if you find school fun. School is where people are lectured. To me that is boring, and games are supposed to be fun. If nobody follows bouched’s logic, shouldn’t that be an explanation enough, that his point is wrong. If he realizes this he will change anyways. Faulty logic, holes in text, they are the same thing to me.

I agree about your view on Jeromus. Every person should make at least one relevant post every 72 hours.

My reason is better than nothing for my vote. Since nobody is voting for the player I suspect the most, I voted for him. You haven’t even voted yet, so apparently you don’t see any incriminating evidence so far for a vote.

[hiphop]

Startransmission-Why did you only do Starbuck? I kind of want you to do me as well. I want to see what kind of impression I am making, being this is my first game at mafiascum. Maybe a few others that are suspicious to you as well, if you have time.

As for if I had to lynch someone, I would lynch bouched, the person who I am voting for, otherwise why would I vote for him in the first place?

[hiphop]

you shouldn't assume in this game either, just because I haven't voted yet, doesn't mean I don't have my suspicions. I would like to have the active lurkers weigh in a bit more.

That is the problem, why should they weigh in, if you are not? Your suspicions make them post. The reason this game is slow is because nobody finds a reason to weigh in. "I do not want to tip off the scum, so I won't weigh in." is what I get off of vrk. Somebody must weigh in, and throw suspicion around. I have news for you. The scum already know everything the town knows. In fact they have an advantage, being they know who they are and who we are. So vrk, I would appreciate if you let a little more info leak out. We beginner players may not see everything you seem, so we have even more of a disadvantage.

@bouched You want me to give a reason? Fine. My reason is this you are attacking(right nor or then) me and Jeromus. Lurkers, replacements. Everybody hates lurkers, so if you were scum you can find an easy target. The only reason you stopped, because Starbuck said something. Scum are like that. They prey on the weaklings of the town, hoping people will follow them. If people follow them the scum blend in with the crowd.

Second you overreact. Almost as if you are trying so hard to be town, that you can't see any reason how somebody can suspect you. The only reason to try to be town is if you are scum. I don't know if that points to scum, or your personality, but we will see. Unlike the lurkers you have made several posts, I can wait for them, but that doesn't mean I can't suspect you now.

[hiphop]

I don't see that knowing bouched's alignment would be particularly more helpful than knowing anyone else's, and I don't like this as a reason to support his lynch at all. Lynching someone because "it will be useful to know their alignment" is a good line for scum to push, because no one can say they were wrong if the player in question turns up town.

Do you think Mae's lurking has been more egregious than jeromus?

---

Lynches I would support at the moment:

jeromus
VRK
startrans

in that order.

Unvote, Vote: jeromus

Why do you not vote for vrk instead if you think the vrk push is something a scum would pull? Lurkers don’t always have to be scum. Although it does bother me that he has time to answer the prod yet not make a substantial post at least once in a while.

[hiphop]

The keyword is might. Do not count your chickens before they hatch. There is always the chace of them not posting just because you voted for them.

[hiphop]

In this case apparently he didn't want to post, because he has asked for a replacement.

So iamausername are you going to change your vote, or are you going to leave it as is, waiting for the replacement to say something to convince you not to vote him?

[hiphop]

I can always change my vote in the next two days, but for now...

unvote, vote Maemuki

in the hall with the wrench. If I am wrong and you are in the ballroom, please say something. Sorry, wrong game.

For the real reason. Make a post with some essence. Give us anything, the most irritating person, your hunch, most-likely to be town, most suspicious. Anything is better than nothing.

Vel and Startransmission please hurry up with those posts.

I want a lynch too. Not making a lynch would seriously hurt the town. Time is ticking

[hiphop]

I am not against votes being usd as pressure votes. I said it doesn't always work. In my very first game in playing mafia on another site, I tried it, it didn't work. The other player ignored me completely, because he had nothing to hide.

No one can be ever sure of scum, until at least the first night is over. So don't pull that on me. I don't believe that bouched should of gotten off so easily, without a little pressure. One person cannot, and will never provide pressure unless there are less than five players in the game. Majority rules. I stated clearly in the top of my post that I plan to change my vote on Maemuki. Based on any informtion right now, which is very little, the only person, besides me, (since you believe I deserve a lynch) that has an incriminating evidence is bouched. If my votes stir any activity, I would be happy. Maemuki posts don't provide anythng incriminating against her or anybody else. Will she follow your three votes and vote me, like she followed you guys on bagsquad's bw? We will see.

[hiphop]

The two scummiest people I find right now are bouched and iamausername. This quote made by username sums it up.

If it comes down to a choice between hiphop or bouched (I specify these two because they are the only other players who have any votes at all right now), I will vote for hiphop.

That's fence sitting. That is pushing for my lynch without voting for me. Very bad, and very scummy indeed. You are sitting on that fence, waiting to see if anybody will jump in. Later after my lynch, you can say, "He had the most votes on him I didn’t know if he was scum or not.”
2nd thing about this quote. I don’t know how you can get a town read from bouched. You are defending him for no reason. That is budding. That is also very bad. You cannot know for sure of which side he is on without being scum. Since you say he is town, he is scum too.

This quote shows me that iamausername is fence sitting, and budding, two scummy acts. This leads me to believe he is scum.

@VDK iamausername’s lynch will provide more information than bouched’s lynch. However I would still be happy to lynch either one of these. Plus he has the most evidence pointing his way, double whammy.

Maemuki I still want you to post, however I have more important ways to use my vote,

vote:iamausername

For anyone’s info I find that starbuck and startranmission seem to be the most likely to be town.

oh before I forget

fos

bouched

[hiphop]

forgot to unvote

unvote
vote:iamausername

[hiphop]

When hiphop first voted for Maemuki I was thinking that if we lynched hiphop and he turned out to be scum, Maemuki would probably be town. However, is it suspicious that hiphop switched votes rather quickly away from Maemuki without any real reason (Maemuki hadn't posted yet at that point, and why didn't hiphop start voting iama?). Is this suspicion valid, or is it merely due to hiphop's wild voting? I'd like to know how are the more experienced players reading this?

I was afraid with iamausername saying people need to vote, that everybody would follow the bw of me, before Maemuki would post. I already have three votes. Two is not hard to find. I wanted to show my suspicions before I went to bed, so that people didn't jump on me, before morning. Remember the scum are the only two who know everybodies alignment.

[hiphop]

hiphop, if the two scum didn't vote yet, they wouldn't be as stupid to bandwagon you. Then we would know exactly who they were.

I never used this term before, but I bleieve that is WIFOM. You won't know what the scum did until they are lynched, or the game is over.

[hiphop]

@Petunho when you get a chance can you give us your thoughts on the game?
An outsider's view is always helpful.

[hiphop]

Fence sitting is the completely the wrong term; fence sitting would be not taking a position either way between you and bouched.

What term would you use? Either way you are sitting back and waiting for everybody to bite the hook, so that you can jump on later.

You were already one of the two most likely to end up as the day's lynch.

I don’t think you can say this. There were only two people voting for me, and one was an OMGUS vote, so technically only one. Starbuck’s vote came later. That even isn't half the votes needed to lynch. Like you said things have changed. So do you believe I am more likely scum or more likely town?

False, I'm defending him because I think he's town.

The only person that you know can be town is yourself, and I wouldn’t even believe that.

Call it 'buddying', but I disagree with the prevailing opinion that it's a bad thing to talk about who you think is town.

But you just said above you were defending him, talking and defending are two different terms.

By this logic, we should just keep no lynching and waiting for the cop to tell us who the scum is, and if we don't have a cop, I guess we're just screwed.
You can't know for sure which side anyone is on unless you're scum. If you're town, you have to go with your best guess, that's pretty much how the game works.

You don’t think I don’t know this. That is what I have been trying to say, even than you should not defend, because that is buddying.

Why isn't this buddying, and therefore bad, but me saying the same about bouched is?

First, I am not defending them, like you said you were doing to bouch, second there are only two scum, I gave two names, that would equal three scum. Three does not equal two.

Hiphop has been active with his votes, too active I would say,
So far you have been ready to lynch: Iamausername, Startransmission, Bouched and Maemuki. 4 out of 8. So half of the people here are in your eyes potential scums atm.

Before I came to play at mafiascum, I played (and still playing) at another site. The days are only 72 hours long. So I have playing this game for almost 12 days in real time. So this day in mafiascum, would last 4 of those. If the days were only as long as the other mafia game then I would have 4 votes in 4 days(mafia perspective). Does this make sense? I know I need to calm down, but I like playing mafia, so I am very active, and very impatient. This quote you quoted only had to with that time, and I am still willing to lynch him.

As for if I had to lynch someone, I would lynch bouched, the person who I am voting for, otherwise why would I vote for him in the first place?

The first vote for Iamausername, Startranmission and Mae’s vote, were just votes to get them to respond to anything and everything, however it never worked. It could be because you said I am too active. By the way, nice perspective of the game.

[hiphop]

This may be my last post, because I may not get to another computer in time. My vote stands. I hope there is a lynch, and I hope it isn't me. Good luck everybody.

[hiphop]

I will not change my vote until the deadline gets closer. Lurking is bad, but she hasn't posted anything that appears scummy. That is my problem. She won't give us her opinion, so I will wait a little more. Maemuki vote, please.

VRK also should have no excuse to not vote. He has read most of the game, he should of voted, when he had the chance, if he knew he wasn't going to be available. I thought I wouldn't see the end, so I gave my last post, he should have done the same thing.


FOS, I will remember that, instead of voting all of the time.

[hiphop]

No, I don't want you to lynch yourself. I want you to play the game that you signed up for. Either way you have hurt scum, if you are scum, and you have hurt town, if you are town. 40 minutes left. Correct what you have done wrong in that time. You are probably going to get lynched anyways, but at least help the side that you are aligned too. Time is ticking.

[hiphop]

Should I cast my vote now? She has had long enough time

[hiphop]

from this game. 25% chance of catching scum with a lynch, 0% with a night kill. I got to stick with the odds.

vote:Maemuki

for a lynch.

@petunho Is being too active a bad thing? Imo it isn’t. By the way did you win that game that which you did what maemuki is doing?

So long maemuki, good luck with any future games.

[hiphop]

Edit: You should at least try to go down in style. I hope you have learned something from this game. 25% chance of catching scum with a lynch, 0% with a night kill. I got to stick with the odds.

vote:Maemuki

for a lynch.

@petunho Is being too active a bad thing? Imo it isn’t. By the way did you win that game that which you did what maemuki is doing?

[hiphop]

forgot to unvote

unvote
vote:Maemuki

[hiphop]

There goes my theory.

[hiphop]

I think there is one question everybody should be asking themselves.

Why was iamausername lynched?

I only have two reasons:
1. The mafia wanted to throw suspicion elsewhere. The mafia could of been low on his list, and they could hope the town goes with my second solution.
2. iamusername was adding pressure to the mafia.

[hiphop]

Asking why someone was night killed really is just playing WIFOM. We should concentrate more on what was said in thread rather than speculating about the mafia's thoughts.

Can you tell me how we have any more information from before the NK and the lynch until after, besides knowing that mae and iamausername are towns, because their comments only reflect what they think, and they are not scum?

One more question for you.

Before the lynch and knowing if Mae was town or not, were you in favor of having a no lynch than lynching Mae?

[hiphop]

I meant if you didn't know Mae was town. Wording always gets me.

The way you interepted it, oviously I can't answer it any better. I would not of lynched her if I knew she was town.

However, I was against voting for Mae, because besides lurking she didn't have anything that put her as scum. That is why I waited to the last 10 minutes before I voted.

I voted for two reasons:
1. She asked to be voted, I think because she wanted to get on the newbie list, because she signed up again as soon as I voted.
2. I was thinking 75% town, but that 25% I wasn't sure of. I couldn't be positive, so I had to vote.

[hiphop]

How can I be sure she wasn’t scum? I can’t, so I voted. I agree with one of iamausernames first posts. If I didn’t vote for Mae, I would of given up 22% chance of catching scum.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline. And the fact that you hammered Mae while admittedly not believing that she was even scum makes me very suspicious.

Your justification of your vote makes me very suspicious. You started the bw with the second vote on Mae. What do you think people might do so close to the deadline? I made a post saying she should at least vote for who she thinks is the scummiest, how is that suspicious?

FOS:startransmission

[hiphop]

He SEEMS to be giving Maemuki a chance, with about an hour to go. Did he think she's innocent? Or did he try too hard to make his vote look innocent?

Bouched I realize that you don't have time, but I am going to argue your post.

@Maemuki I should put that as one of my choices. Who do you think is the scummiest player now? As bouched(can I call you this or would you prefer your whole name) said at least point your FOS.

This was posted Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:20 pm, which is a good 8 days before the deadline. I gave her a chance, a whole week chance.
As for my pressuring, I wanted her to post something good. I thought that maybe if she knew she was going to be lynched she might write pages worth, but unfortunately she did not.

I had to work, an hour before the deadline hit was the first time I could get to a computer after my last post.

[hiphop]

Post 146 is where I found my post.

[hiphop]

Two votes on me. You guys sure do like to pick up where you left off.

I don't find your saying that she (Mae) should vote for who is most suspicious scummy. I find you hammering her while not finding her scummy suspicious. Beyond suspicious actually- damning.

I told her to vote. I wanted everybody to vote. Wouldn't you vote for someone if you were in her situation? I told her to post something that everybody could look at. I wanted activity from her, is activity bad for the town? Imo it isn't. In fact I believe that activity is what is the most beneficial to town, it is the best information available. You sound as if you want me to stop from trying to draw people out. Now that is scummy.

And what about my vote don't you understand? I expressed my uneasiness regarding mae very early on. I was in fact the first to challenge her. When I voted her it was close to the deadline and I felt I owed it to the proceedings to vote who I felt was the most scummy before deadline.

It was not your vote that drew suspicion it was your justification of your vote. Don’t you read.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline.

This is the way I interpret it. “I never expected people to jump on a bw that is happening so close to the deadline. People shouldn’t have voted.” To me that is how scum talk.

It was within hours that both you and Starbuck unvoted and voted Mae.

You

hammered her... just before the deadline. And then you roll into day 2 saying that you never found the person you hammered scummy.

Where do you get this hammering nonsense? I wanted her to vote. I would of done the same thing to vrk, except he wasn’t around. She responded to my 227, I responded back. Hammering no, helping yes.

Shit, this is an easy vote...

Ouch! Something scum will say.

Vote: Hiphop

Then we have an omgus situation. However I find you very suspicious.

Vote: startransmission

As far as our IC, I've written VRK off. May well be scum, but I can't point to enough to warrant a vote. It's just a loss. It's a symptom on this site, IC's often sign up for games they

never end up playing in depth due to all the other games

they are involved in, be it playing or modding.

And finally the buddying. You find Mae suspicious because she doesn’t post anything substantial, yet you say,” never end up playing in depth due to all the other games,” about Vrk. Looks like the same reason to me. In fact it is the same definition of lurking just worded differently. Why is VRK different than Mae? He is not. They both haven’t given us anything good. This is where Petunho comes in. He said Mae was acting the same as he was. Vrk is doing the same thing. That was my problem with Mae, one couldn’t tell if she was town or scum. VRK I can’t tell either, yet startransmission is willing to say he is town. WOW. I don’t believe this.

[hiphop]

Post 215 you don’t think I am scum, yet by post 259 you vote for me, how quickly you change your mind.

I comprehend your justification, but it is your justification that is scummy. I answered why I think your justification is suspicious, I don’t need to repeat myself.

You would have hammered VRK... if he was more active? I'm not following you. You didn't hammer her (you did) you were helping her? How is casting the deciding vote against somebody that you now say you never really found scummy helping anybody? Especially her?

She asked me a question about my previous post, I answered. She did it again, and I answered, and so on. How is that hammering? Are you saying that whenever someone answers a question of another player, it is called hammering? I just answered your question did I just hammer you? I must be getting good at this hammering nonsense. Maybe I should just ignore everybody for the rest of the game, than I won’t be hammering you. If everybody wanted to evade hammering (in your opinion) the town would never get anything done. Vrk never asked me a question, how can I hammer him? Let me repeat hammering no, helping yes. That vote was after the helping part, so stop combining things. Starbuck previously ask bouch a question, he answers. Does he hammer?

I was aware when I wrote that there would be an accusation of me defending VRK. So- just because I voted Mae for being an active lurker doesn't mean I'm obligated to vote for all active lurkers in this game. Especially when there is an extremely scummy player (you) right in front of me.

Attack one lurker, and let the other one go. Biggest BS I ever heard.

hiphop claims, in post 87, that he has played in a couple of theme games on another site. Barring the differences in playstyle between the two sites, hiphop shows a lot of confusion for someone who has a couple of theme games (which typically are more difficult due to extra mechanics).

Actually they were easier. Suspicion was drawn to me, but I would character claim, and they would leave me alone. One person said, ”Once again I think hiphop is town, but it is hard to tell because he acts so scummy.” I was always nk in these games. Being this is the first game that I played in without any CC’s I am learning as I go.

165: This is a lot like a person asking a cop to investigate them that night. There's no reason for this. The only people who really care how they look are the scum. Don't worry about how you look - scumhunt. If the other players don't like your play you'll hear about it. Just re-read the last 10 posts or so for an example

I don’t care if someone has a problem with my play style it is how I play. I will keep playing this way.

This is not WIFOM, this is logic. If the two scum are not on a wagon already at L-2, they will not be the L-1 and Hammer votes, because those two positions are looked at most carefully on the following days. Yes scum want to kill townies, but getting themselves caught in the process is NOT how it's done.

So by your own logic, I can’t be scum. Smooth. If that isn’t WIFOM this is.

232: Why are you looking for town approval of when to cast your vote?

That was me thinking to myself, like you do.

Overall, the vote hopping and the "Newbie card" are making me leery, especially when you have very insightful posts strewn throughout your overall posting for the game.

The insightful posts came later in the game. I learned that people don't vote hopping, and I should attack with a reason. Do think I am still a newbie?

Vote: hiphop

THIS IS L - 1!!!

You have logic that says I can’t be scum, and than the vote. Are you not contradicting yourself? Our IC is making mistakes????

[hiphop]

Thanks crazypianist1116 I needed that.

[hiphop]

How does that affect your arguments with me?

Let’s see…
I did hammer, but I take the same stance that imausername did at the end of post 181 and what you said in post 17 that a lynch is better than no lynch.

If it comes down to a choice between lynching

anyone

and lynching no one, I will vote to lynch someone.

I still don’t get why you didn’t attack VRK like you did to Mae. Can’t you attack two people at once or is this impossible for you? There is always a FOS, which you seem to say in post 215 to use, which you don’t seem to use. I still don’t like your justification. Since the term hammering does not mean what I thought it meant, I would of attacked Vrk like I did to Mae hoping he would post something if he had replied to my post 227.

@VRk First game mod left in the middle, second replaced in at the last lynch, third game died first night. In none of these games, I never heard of FOS, hammer, OMGUS vote, etc. I doubt that most of those players even knew what they meant. I couldn’t FOS someone, so in those games I threw around my vote. As for keeping the suspicions on me I think it makes the game more fun. I don’t like me targeting other people, so I let other people target me, this way the game isn’t so boring. Either way, I can scumhunt with their arguments against me or their arguments against someone else.

So by your own logic, I can’t be scum. Smooth. If that isn’t WIFOM this is.

Why not? The assumption you're making is that I think Starbuck is your partner? I don't see it.

No the assumption I am making is that you said that in post 265 that scum would not be the L-1 and hammer votes. I made the hammer vote, did I not? Your own logic said scum would not do that.

I didn’t see this question in post 265 so I will answer it now.

182: good post. A vote, a reason, and logic to boot. 187 undermines it though. What changed in 4 hours that you had to move your vote? Why not vote for iama initially?

As I explained in 193, I made my post against Mae in 182. I went to bed thinking about iama’s post. I figured out how I respond to it. I became scared and I was afraid that I would be lynched by morning without making my suspicions known. Once I am lynched I won’t have a say. I didn’t have a response for his post at the time of 182, yet I still suspected him to think about the post.

Just a quickie to stay in the game. I'd like to keep voting for hiphop from the day so far, but obviously I can't.

Let me get this straight, you wanted to keep your vote on me from the first day, yet for some odd reason you didn't do that in your first post of the second day. Why? Is it because of the recent arguments and you want to follow everybody else? If that is so why didn't you say something about that in this post? If iama hadn't said that you showed signs of being a newbie townie, and being iama is now a known town, I would still have suspicions of you. So now I can accept the arguments of an experienced known town and say you are probably town as well.

[hiphop]

Where did I imply that he wasn't?

[hiphop]

@hiphop. Since the day before, I've been suspicious toward you because of a feeling that you're protesting your innocence too much. But on day 1, everyone thought that opinion wasn't valid. At the beginning of day 2, I also felt that you were trying too hard not to seem town. Also, I thought that votes carried on from the day before.

Second to last sentence I think you mistyped. To me it reads that I am trying to be scum. Your first sentence never did make sense to me ever. I don't get why someone should try to be town. Everybody is human. We all are going to act like humans, whether we are scum or not. I never tried to act like a townie, I act like a human.

Now you know that votes do not carry.

[q]No the assumption I am making is that you said that in post 265 that scum would not be the L-1 and hammer votes. I made the hammer vote, did I not? Your own logic said scum would not do that.[/q]
It's not your hammer vote that's suspicious, but rather that you said so much stuff before you voted.

It's

not [q]. Everybody says "stuff" before they vote. You said "stuff" before your first vote. The "stuff" leads up to the vote. It's the logic behind the "stuff" that is important. I already explained in post 262 why I said so much "stuff" before I voted. You don't need to follow my logic, but it makes sense to me.

[hiphop]

Where did I imply that he wasn't?

You quoted him and then asked him a question.

Sorry about the way it is worded. I quoted him and asked startransmission a question.

[hiphop]

Of course a lynch is better than a no lynch, I'm not suspicious of you just because you hammered. The hammer vote is always scrutinized, but for me your hammer stands out because of the timing, and your reasons.

My timing? How can you have a problem with my timing? I knew I would be aroung the final minutes of the day, so if I voted I would cut her off without her being able to make another post(for one can't post once one is lynched). So I waited letting her defend herself the way she deemed fit.

I voted for two reasons:
1. She asked to be voted, I think because she wanted to get on the newbie list, because she signed up again as soon as I voted.
2. I was thinking 75% town, but that 25% I wasn't sure of. I couldn't be positive, so I had to vote.

You hammered somebody that you say you felt was 75% town. You imply that you were forced to vote Mae because otherwise there would be a no lynch. I don't buy that, I tend to believe you are using that to clean your hands of Maes lynch. I think that after much vote hopping you saw an excellent opportunity after Starbuck put Mae at L-1 (a vote switch I hope to delve into my next post) to lynch her while acting like you're forced to do it for the sake of a lynch. You kill somebody who you say you felt was town and then use the 22% chance vs. 0% chance as an excuse. That and the classic "he or she wanted to be lynched/didn't care!" which I've heard before and is a ridiculous reason for voting somebody... especially when you think they are town. And then you have the balls to tell me that

my

justification for voting her was scummy. I voted for who I felt was the scummiest. I didn't have a solid read on anybody, but when the deadline approached and push came to shove I voted Mae. She had posted just enough to avoid being prodded, and when she did post there was never any substance. And I got a weird vibe from her posts, something on a gut level I couldn't put my finger on. So, with no other candidate that I felt comfortable voting for I voted Mae. When I did so we were quite close to the deadline, and I didn't anticipate the momentum to shift against Mae so suddenly. But, like I've said, I stand by my vote.

There we have a misrepresentation. It was 25% chance of lynching scum not 22% chance. 9 people minus myself(because I am not scum) equals 8 people. 2 scum divided by 8 people equals 25% chance of finding scum. I was referring in that post of Mae being part of the 75% town. I never said how sure I was of her being town. If someone else wanted to put the hammer vote on Mae, because they actually believed she was scum, would have been fine with me. My vote was because I wanted a lynch.

In post 252 you gave your justification for voting Mae after the lynch happened. That is where I found you suspicious. Nobody asked you for a justification from you. To me it sounds like you wrote your justification just so that nobody could question your vote that nobody questioned in the first place. To me it looks like you want to clear your name and leave no doubt that you honestly believed that Mae was scum and didn’t expect her to be lynched, when she clearly just might be. That is where your scumtell was. Your vote is not an issue, it is your justification in post 252.

Plus, as I've said before, when I voted Mae there was not another person that I found especially scummy, whereas today there is.

Funny how yesterday you said I was probably town and today I am scum, when I don’t believe that I changed any. Could it be because I FOS you? Is that why you think I am scum? Also, you seem to be tunneling on me, when there are two scum.

[hiphop]

L-1 doesn't bother me. I can still post at L-1. L-1 and L-4 to me are not much different except only one more person needs to change their mind in order to lynch me. If somebody does lynch me without waiting for a couple of days left, they would be seriously anti-town. There is no reason to lynch me sooner than later. I hope you guys give me the same courtesy that I gave Mae.

As for claiming, I will not until the deadline is closer and(I now see that “and” Vrk) Starbuck(for she I believe is the most likely town.) asks me to.

As for my suspicions, my second is Vrk, but that is only a hunch for now.

You are fully in my 33% scum.

There is nothing innocent about a vote. It is a deadly thing, that cuts someone off without another post. I never tried to make my vote innocent. I call it self defense trying to get rid of scum.

As for me making that first post of the second day. I made it because I was reading another newbie game and the end of the game the scum that won, said she killed someone because they had her as being most likely town. This way the others would follow the person who was NK and not suspect her. I wanted to see if people in this game suspected someone because of the Nk. I thought maybe it would be a good way to lynch scum.

In 253 I thought hammering meant to dispute someone. That is why I asked you that question.

252- You gave a reason that everybody already knew. I gave a reason because Crazy asked me a question about my vote. You felt like you needed to give a reason too. Your reason was with your vote, mine was not. You are the one who is trying to make your vote more innocent than a vote should be. You are the one trying to show that you didn’t know she was town, when it was completely obvious that nobody knew.

I am learning to defend myself from a mini that I am currently playing in on this site, and I am glad I get to put it to some use. Otherwise I would be like Crazy wondering who to attack without someone attacking him. I hate quotewars so I summarize.

[hiphop]

I read some of the links of the newbie queue not all.

As for why I think you should be the one to ask me to role claim, it is because you are the most likely town. Why should I listen to someone who I believe is scum? So that if I claim as a PR he will say he is lying let's lynch him. And if I claim as a vanilla he can come back and say he claims as a vanilla and I believe him to be scum so let’s lynch him. If he is only a vanilla instead of scum, we won't be losing much. Since you are the most likely town to me you are the only person who I can trust when it comes to RCing. It is same reason that I trust iamausername's quotes so much because he was an experienced townie.

Vrk it is not 22%. I read my pms(I don't know what you do with them) and I know 100% what my role is. Therefore I can take my role out of the equation. If you knew what everybody’s roles were except for two people who one of them was scum, wouldn't you say that you have a 50% chance of hitting scum?

[hiphop]

No post for 24 hours? Seriously. Where is all the activity that looked so promising the beginning of the second day?

startransmission you were posting at a good rate. What happened? The sooner you get those theories out there the sooner they can be speculated on.

[hiphop]

Plus, he seems unwilling to claim. I read this as either he's got a non-vanilla town role, or he's mafia- can someone tell me whether this is normally correct, or if I'm wrong, how this is wrong? I think the reason we want you to claim now, rather than just before the lynch, as you say you'd prefer to do, is that if your claim comes out as true, then

we

have time to choose someone else to lynch.

This is where you learn to lash out at two people at the same time instead of tuneling on only one, because I will not claim until it gets closer. I know what will happen if I claimed now, so I won't. Just pick two people who scummy individually and attack both. It isn't that hard.

Secondly, who is this we business. You are an individual. You don't need other people to decide for you. Make your own reasoning.

@startransmission how? Here we were arguing together and you never convinced me on one point. You make one post on the person who I thought was town, and I am enlightened.
For that

Fos:Starbuck

I am not entirely convinced, but she moved up on my scummy list.

Why couldn't you have done that earlier?

You guys work in Portland? Is that what they do there? I am working 56 hrs this week, but I still make a post every day.

By the way did you just put your loaction in.

for linking a post, I believe it is blah

[hiphop]

Hiphop placed that hammer rather quickly, even after Mae said she was town.

Rather quickly? We had ten minutes left. I most certainly was not going to wait any longer. I don’t know about you, but ten minutes is cutting it quite close as it is.

I'm rather bothered by the above statement. You were at L-1 and were very close to being lynched, but you didn't claim. And now you just plain ol' refuse, I don't like this.

“plain ol' refuse” if that is what you want to call it. I am not at L-1 anymore am I? I will claim when the deadline gets closer. I am not going to be lynched now anyways, because I doubt anyone wants to end the day with only a couple real days info on day 2.

I think he did find someone who's scummy, and I don't like that you brush off his suspicions of you here.

I have a right to defend myself anyway I deem fit.

Bouched obviously meant the town with his statement of

Bouch obviously meant he will latch onto somebody else’s logic and put new dressing on it.

I don't like this at all. Not because you are FOS'ing me, but because you clearly state no reasons of your own.

Maybe because it was right after I read startranmission post and I had not really looked into your posts before.

Here we come to an interesting dilemma. If I vote for you, which I haven’t yet, will you claim?

[hiphop]

Crazy have you ever been scum before?

vote:Starbuck

[hiphop]

No; see my wiki. Why do you ask? I'm guessing you're voting Starbuck for the reasons above.

Didn't know how to view your wiki till just now.

Now that I am at L-1, I claim town.

Is that all I have to do? I thought I had to claim roles as well. Ok, if it is that simple, I claim town as well.

[hiphop]

technically, I already claimed town in post 288. I said I was not scum. Which in this game means I am town, because there are no neutral roles. Like I said I thought when someone asked me to claim, I thought claiming meant role claiming, which I still won't do until it gets closer to lynch day.

In fact now that I think about it claiming town is stupid. Of course people are going to claim town, so why ask them to claim?

[hiphop]

I just said I was town. I never said what role I was.

[hiphop]

And I claimed my role, you still have not.

What about it? I will explain why I did not claim, when I claim.

[hiphop]

@Starbuck What are you trying to prove?

@Start Do you expect it to be black and white?

[hiphop]

Here is how I think the votes will go.
I believe Petunho will not switch.
Starbuck and I obviously will not change.
Bouch will vote for me, because he hasn’t let go of me from day 1.
Start and VRK I am unsure about, though I am leaning they will vote for me.
Crazy will not vote his partner if he and Starbuck are scum, so he will vote me.
Therefore I believe I will be lynched so it doesn’t matter if I claim or not. Of course I thought I would be lynched day one, but Mae’s wagon saved me. So I claim vanilla. I will now tell why I did not claim. In another game a person claimed vanilla. He was lynched. Why? Because another 3 suspicious people claimed PR, and the town did not want to lynch a claimed PR when a vanilla could never be helpful at night. I found this stupid. You guys could of done the same thing to me, saying he is a vanilla, so even if he was town he would only be another vote, nothing special and scum would claim as vanilla too. I couldn’t explain this before because I would be giving away my role.

Any scum will claim as a vanilla, because he couldn't afford matching with a PR, becuase there can only be one PR.

I've got a radical theory for you: hiphop and starbuck are scum together.

I don't like hiphop jumping from "Starbuck being the most town, and therefore she should tell me when to claim" to an FoS followed on his very next post by a vote, which coincidentally put Starbuck at L-1.

Why wait to vote on Starbuck? She and start have been pushing your lynch the hardest on Day 2. Here are the Day 2 vote counts:

Day 2, Vote Count #1
hiphop (2) <- startransmission, Starbuck
Vel-Rahn Koon <- Petunho

Not voting: bouchedufou, hiphop, crazypianist1116, Vel-Rahn Koon.

---

Day 2, Vote Count #2
hiphop (2) <- Starbuck, Vel-Rahn Koon
Starbuck (2) <- startransmission, Petunho
startransmission <- hiphop

Not voting: bouchedufou, crazypianist1116.

---

Day 2, Vote Count #3
Starbuck (3) <- startransmission, Petunho, hiphop
hiphop (2) <- Starbuck, Vel-Rahn Koon

Not voting: bouchedufou, crazypianist1116.

start jumped on you from the get go, yet you wait until later in the day to even vote for him? Then when starbuck starts getting votes piled on, you quickly switch over to her. There's also a fabulous bit of buddying towards start in post 300. IIRC, you're the one who said you should use your vote. Why wait until so far into the day, when suspicions are starting to switch, to suddenly use it? I would have thought you would have voted for either start or starbuck within a day or two of the game opening up for Day 2.

The "claim/don't claim" argument is getting us nowhere and I think it needs to be abandoned. Not claiming is suboptimal play, whether you're scum or town. As scum, you want to claim to try to stay alive. As town, you want to claim to try to help convince people you're not scum and that they should look elsewhere. By flat-out refusing to claim you tend to make yourself more of a target, not less because this is a game of suspicions. And again I refuse to believe, after all the crap you went through about your "Newbie card" playing that you didn't understand what claiming means. I would like to hear an explanation for why you didn't claim. At this point, I don't really care about a claim but I would like to hear your reasoning, as you stated in post 324.

I'm ok lynching either one of them to be honest. I'm limiting it to this pair and leaving out hiphop/start because I've gotten more of a Town read on start's posts throughout the game. I'm leaving my vote where it is for now. If need be I will switch it to ensure a lynch when deadline arrives.

I've still got nothing on crazy and bouche, although bouche's posting seems to be getting more coherent and analytical when compared to day 1.

An experience townie wrote this?

First of all, I could never attack Starbuck, because I never really found her suspicious, until Start wrote that post. Than I saw Starbuck as a scum. It is always hard for me to find experienced players scum tells.

Your point of me waiting to vote for Start is invalid to me. I FOS Start before he even cast his vote, and he did not FOS me. Therefore I was showing that I found him suspicious. So my vote on him makes sense.

I understood the part of claiming. I knew people meant Role-claiming, but when Starbuck just said she claimed town, that is what drove me nuts. She never RC’d.

How can you get any evidence on someone if they wait as long Crazy and Bouched wait? When someone questions their post, the game has moved on so than it doesn’t matter by the time they do post.

[hiphop]

Also I FOS Start first, because you experienced players said I should learn to FOS more. So I am trying to learn. This is a newbie game isn't it? And I am technically a newbie, being I am not a SE or IC? So I have the right to learn.

[hiphop]

Come on, people, we have less than 4 days.

You say this and you are not voting?

I didn’t have time to post yesterday. That would have been my response

I am going to try to connect Petunho/Jeromus and Startransmission. The reason for this is because Petunho votes Maemuki, and Startransmission next post is the

second

vote on Maemuki. Day two, Startransmission votes Starbuck and Petunho’s next post is the

second

vote on Starbuck. Interesting. Very interesting.
Startransmission first post.

Vote: Halidon

This vote is not random.

How so?

Vote: Jeromus

Probably scum trying to distance.

AWW SHIT!
First of all, I'd like to explain my absence - My laptop charger decided to shit itself and I've only now managed to get onto a computer - I'm terribly sorry, I hate lurkers as much as any, my last game featured...I think it was 4 of them, by the end of it.
Ahhh, Mafia, how I missed thee - Okay, I'm beginning to scowl at BagSquad as well, he's not making much sense at all, but Startrannie (Yes, I insist upon calling you this) is acting a lot like a guy in my last game, who turned out to be scum - Not exactly a scumtell, but I think a little pressure can hardly hurt

Startransmission

Irrelevant stuff -

Crazy Pianist - I agree, pianos are GORGEOUS, care to tune mine? Or at the very least lend me a tuning fork?

Startrannie - What is a ranmission and why are we starting it?

Or is it a stellar transmission?

Here we have Jeromus’s next post. The bold is supposed to be a vote. Again scum trying to distance. Later everybody turns to bagsquad and Jeromus unvotes with this.

But after reading through, my claims against Startrannie are very much unsupported by logic beyond deja vu.

Unvote

What do we have? Two votes for irrelevant reasons. They do not again mention each other’s names until Petunho comes in the game and say this:

Our name nightmare

startranmission

. There has been good posts by Start and I really liked the post #159, where he did a summary on Starbuck. I agree most of those points and even though Starbuck tried to null those accusations I still believe you did try to cover hiphop. Start could contribute more, by giving those good analyzes of the game on other players also. No bad vibes from him.

“No bad vibes” Now what does that tell us? I will let you guys develop that thought.

The reason for Start’s vote on Starbuck is because of Petunho’s thoughts. There really is no other interaction between the two. Though I did notice now that Petunho has joined us, Startransmission has been more active. Could this be because he has a better and more entertaining partner.
It isn’t the interaction that bothers me but the 1,2 votes. Vrk said that the L-1 and hammer votes get the most looked at, but that doesn’t mean that the beginning votes shouldn’t be looked at either. In fact, I would expect the scum to stay in the front, especially from two experienced players. I certainly want to

fos: Petunho and startransmission

as a possible scum combo.
They certainly, except for the beginning (which could be possible scum trying to distance), act the same as Starbuck and Crazy.

Vrk- I was looking at the mafia games that you modded on Wiki. How come the mafia usually wins? Is it because the experienced players like Petunho and startransmission post so much information that there are “No bad vibes” from them?

bouch- here is a thought for you. If you find two people likely to be scum, why don’t you move on to the next phase and ask yourself, which of the two will provide more information. This will help the next day, because you have more info than you would have had if the other person were lynched.

Start if Starbuck is lynched and flips town, would you still think that Crazy is still scum?

Here is a fact that everybody should dwell on. Fact- there are no real facts until a PR comes out and starts saying this person is scum. Otherwise, we only have suspicion and interaction. Why can’t Petunho and startransmission both be scum? We should attack the possible scum buddies, because if we mislynch this time and next we lose.

Since it is close to deadline, I will keep my vote on Starbuck. No one can be sure of any partner until someone is lynched. This will see if Crazy is as crazy as people say he is. As I said I said it doesn’t matter how one is involved in the game, anyone can be scum.

[hiphop]

We have a minimum two lynches left, max of three. Two of those three lynches need to be scum. What we have got to do, is narrow down to who we think is the most likely scum combos are and to choose who we think is town. We would more likely be able to say this person is town and be correct, than say this person is scum and be right. I don't want to lose, do you want to lose?
Right now I will say:
Bouch is town (I paired him with iamausername and he was town)
Vrk is town (since no possible combos come as clearly as any other pairing)
Petunho is town (only if Start is town).
Crazy is town (only is Starbuck is town).
These pairs are the most likely imo to be scum together.

That is why I say we should attack one today, and one tomorrow.

At this point, I almost feel you might be town.

Why the vote than?

And your argument against PS is very compelling. But unless someone else like VRK or Starbuck backs your suspicions against PS

As I said before do you really need other people to decide for you. You should decide your own opinion. Here is a question- Do you think they might be more likely scum than me?

If you happen to be mafia, my suspicions would turn to VRK. If you happen to be town, it would be at a PS or Starbuck/Crazy pair.

Eeney meeney miney moe. If one of these pairs is scum, you will have a 50% chance of picking the correct pair if you wait till tomorrow. And that is an only an

if

chance.

I will

unvote

and vote later to decide later of which pair has the chance of being scum. Though I am leaning toward Start being scum.

Just think about this. A possible one, two combination can start any BW. Two votes means a lot more than one.

@Start- You also said you would give an analysis of every player, and you have not.

[hiphop]

@Crazy- Your post is kind of long could you summarize.

You say I am fencesitting? Fencesitting is attacking someone without voting for them. I voted for both. Not fencesitting.

As for part two of my reasons to vote Mae, it can be applied to anybody, because anybody can be scum. Nobody can be declared innocent until a PR says so.

Referring to bouch, in his first post I wasn’t at L-1, was I? I wanted him to think for himself, which he is doing now.

The justification that Start did was unnecessary. Since he justified before the lynch, did he really need to do it afterwards?

My vote is self-defense. Think about it. Scum would kill all of us off. My vote is the only way to get back at scum.

What evidence do you need for me to attack you? There are no facts, except alignment.

Who is suspicious of me for attacking Starbuck? Only you it seems.

The Jeromus quotes are the perfect thing scum might do. Attack during the RVS, when nobody will be suspicious of it, yet it leaves an impression in one’s mind that these two cannot be scum together.

We have to eliminate some people, so the only way is with scum pairs.

This is why I hate lurkers. They don’t let the arguments settle. By the time they read it still is fresh in their minds, so they don’t think about it. While if Crazy was actually staying with the game, he could think about what has been said instead of having an initial reaction. Also my posts can be fresh in my mind instead of having to go read back at what has been said.

@Vrk- If someone attacks me you are saying I should attack them back? That is OMGUS. There was no reason to attack her, so I didn’t. Everybody makes scum tells (some not as many as others), so technically everybody can be attacked. Everybody has a right to attack everybody. If somebody attacks me, does that mean I should attack them. The only person that hasn’t attacked me is Petunho. Technically he did because Jeromus attacked Bagsquad. Are you saying I should attack everybody?

@bouch Now that I read back, your vote on me seems the same as my vote on Mae. Strange how nobody attacks you for it.

@Starbuck @your 348 post- way to seem active.

@town- you lynch me, I flip town, what would you do? This is who I find scummiest

vote:startransmission

[hiphop]

I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't see it. Starbuck was really after hiphop during the last half of day 1. She pursued his lynch and in many ways led the charge, despite being the third voter. If they were partners I could see Starbuck bussing hiphop if he was an awful player and his lynch was a sure thing, but she voted for him fairly early on, and kept that vote there until it was clear the momentum had shifted. If she was trying to bus him then that shit was pretty cold, and above all unnecessary. Not impossible, but it seems like a pretty big stretch.

See you can't find a likely partner for me, which means I am probably not scum. That is why we should attack buddies, and not individauls.

So, I'll be voting for hiphop tomorrow. If my vote means his lynch, I actually hope to be the hammer. I've spent so much time arguing with him that I kinda savor the chance.

Hate to ruin your mood, but I am not scum.

I believe VRK and Starbuck and others have brought it up. I for one found it suspicious. You OMGUS me, we have a big debate... then I switch gears for a second, and you come around and vote for the person you said you thought was most likely town based off the argument of the person you think is most likely scum? Of course people are going to find that suspicious.

I can't attack someone without voting or FOS somebody. Otherwise I would be fencesitting. I for one like to look at the other possibility, being that you might be town. If that is the case your case against Starbuck might be town scumhunting.

I addressed this already

. I wasn't justifying anything, I was pointing out what was wrong with your reasons for voting Mae by presenting mine (and everybody elses) reasons for voting Mae as a

contrast

to your reasons. This is a dead horse, yet you keep beating it.

I thought you said you read Crazy's post here let me show what he wrote:

But he justified his vote before the lynch as well...

See he brought it up as an accusation against me. If some lurker is going to bring up and old post I will defend myself, and point out the reason why I brought it up in the first place. Blame it on the lurker, not me.

Seems the same? Is he hammering you and then saying he never thought you were scum? His vote for you is not even in the same ballpark. And way to play the victim card.

Bouch said that I almost seem like town. Does that make sense?

If you flip town then I will go after Starbuck. The more important question that town should be asking themselves is when you flip scum, who do we go after next? I'm in the same predicament that VRK is... I can't get a scumbuddy read on anybody.

No matter how hard you look there is no connection, because I am not scum.

@VRK Do you think it is likely that both scum are on my BW? Or would they be fencesitting like Crazy (who didn’t even FOS me, but attacked me)?

[hiphop]

Now you really sound like you're trying not to get caught.

How so?

Because scum would obviously say they're scum.

If I had finished a game on this site I would post it, but I haven't. All I can say is it is my playstyle.

Um, fencesitting is not making a decision between voting for two players, which is how you originally used it. You're changing your definition.

Um, is there a dictionary around here. Fencesitting is not not making a decision between voting two players, but attacking someone without voting for them. It is what scum would do. Kind of like what Petunho did. He made a case against Starbuck, but didn't vote. Start made a vote based on that post, then Petunho came back and voted based on his original case. He was testing the waters before he voted, to see if somebody would follow him. Attack several different people, but don't commit to one single person, when somebody attacks a certain person, follow that somebody and attack too, based on one's original argument. That is fencesitting and that is how I originally used the term. That is also scummy.

I was looking at you in iso (only your posts). You said that you thought he had bad justification after the lynch but he justified himself when he originally voted.

I never had a problem with his original justification, it is his second one that I have a problem with. He said it was to show why my reason to vote was wrong, but I can read, and I know what it says. The post where his second justification is does not tell anything about using his justifiaction as an example.

But he said

However, your play style really makes me uncomfortable and make me think you're mafia ... It's just the way you're jumping around makes me feel very uncomfortable.

You're probably his #1 suspect.

Oh, so someone that is almost town can be scum. Interesting point. That was sarcasm.

I think it would be weird for VRK to think that both scum are on your BW as he is voting for you thus he thinks you're scum.

Oh, but I say I am not. Which is true. And if I am town do you think both scum are on my BW?