Newbie 896 - Mafia gets the girl in the end

[Johoohno]

/confirm

[Johoohno]

Vote: TBM

[Johoohno]

• DiamondCrash: suspicious due to post 38 (opportunistic)
  
• TBM: suspicious (in the most miniscular way) due to Budja vote in post 19
  
• cdubs: "I'll still leave my vote where it is and see what happens." - waiting for what?
  
• aminal: unwilling to lead on the game, hoping for someone else (in post 39) - don't wait for others, act and react on what you see or try to move game forward through questions or suchlike
  
• Zodiark13: Eager to put Jeromus at L-1
  
• aka: post please
  
• jeromus: humorous (cover or style?)
  
• Budja: noted voting failure in post 17

vote: DiamondCrash

[Johoohno]

@ DiamondCrash

: (about being opportunistic – post 41) You voted Zod for voteswitching and being “over-suspicious on another person about voting for an experienced player”. Aminals and jeromus take on zod was that he was supicious due to putting fourth vote on jeromus. Seemed to me that you were trying to use that while trying to avoid copying. I know it might have been easier to jump on the jeromus train, but that would have appeared extremely scummy right after that had been at L-1 and just turned.

@ jeromus

: (about being humouristic – post 42) It could be someone being nervous of their role or trying to be light hearted in order to slide under suspicious and seeming harmless and a nice fellah to have around. Post 48 does nothing to shed light on the style/cover dilemma for me.

@ aminal

: (about being unwilling to lead on the game – post 43) This is what looked like being uwilling (aminal post 39): “Might give it a bit of time in hope of something new being brought to the table before I do anything else”. My entire post 40 was a direct response to your post. It is actually a snippet of my personal notes. I do encourage you all to make notes all through the game, it helps me a lot. Even though they might seem petty or pointing out tiny things, it might be those things that help you later on in the game.

@ Budja

: (about failing to vote - post 47) Nope I don’t find it suspicious (never said that, it was, as said above, just a snippet of my notes). However now that I look back on your vote I see you just missed bolding the text, whereas in my mind I saw you doing a “<b>Vote</b>", which I thought was pretty peculiar for someone who has 1000+ posts here.

@ Zodiark13

: (about being eager to vote) This is not the way to play. Townies are at their best during day. Even though you want to get to night soon (as did I in my first game) the game is won through wise day performance. On another topic, your post 57 seems very suspicious to me. Explain to me again what you mean there.

@ TBM and Zodiark

: Please get profile pics, it’ll be easier to see who’s who when skimming the game thread.

@ cdubs & aka

: please post!

[Johoohno]

@ mod: please prod aka

[Johoohno]

On the topic of long posts: there are certainly times when those are needed, but they do slow down the pace of the game somewhat. I try to keep most of my posts short (even though one has been quite long, since so much had been said that was aimed at me and I wanted to adress it all at once to not miss anything or forget any questions).

And speaking of posts, I like the pace in this game. Many posts = good fun and lots of things to analyze.

@ zodiark

: Is jeromus the one you are most suspicious of?

[Johoohno]

And Zodiark, I do not believe Jeromus is committing omgus against you. He was committing omgus against you. If there is reason behind a vote for some one other than the fact that they voted for you, then it is not an omgus.

Just establishing here, Cdubs, you're saying that I WAS OMGUS-ing him, as in, past tense as opposed to present?

@ Jeromus. I used tenses poorly. No I don't think it was ever omgus.

@ cdubs

: Are we to do this in your post 85 ->

He was committing omgus against you.

?

@ zodiark13

: You’ve got three votes on you and more players are actually feeling unclear of what you mean (myself included). You should consider laying out things more clearly about the suspicions and your answers. If it makes you feel better you can recap the suspicions, questions and answers as if talking to a five year old. Also, do note that now is not the time to claim or anything, that time will come for a player once he is one vote away from being lynched and a non voter is ready to put down that vote.

I'm also bringing out the cattle prodder tomorrow, playing with non-present players is hampering the game *glaring at TBM and Budja*

[Johoohno]

I'm not sure I would call it a gambit, seems to be plain madness to me.

[Johoohno]

Welcome to the game McGriddle!

As said by others above, this site is having serious posting difficulties right now

@ Zod

: Your theory of two being scums on your train won't hold water. WHy would scum trade one of them for you? Surely you understand that player would have a lot of explaining to do tomorrow. If you suspectr someone you need to build a case on more than just that.

@ everyone

: I was about to post a few finds but I'll hold them off until

aka

McGriddle has posted some content (preferably a summary of thoughts followed by a vote)

@ Mod: Please prod TBM

[Johoohno]

EBWOP:

@ Zod

: I am not looking for a full claim on your behalf, keep whatever tidbits you have left for yourself (see post 98 for details why)

[Johoohno]

@ Cliquey:

Welcome Cliquey. And no I won't claim. Claiming without any pressure is just detrimental to the town. I told Zod yesterday when he was supposed to claim and that goes for everyone, we're not going to have a claim fest, at least not yet. I'd prefer getingo yur opinions though, as would we all I guess. TBM was pretty quiet so we don't know that much what he thought about people.

I was in the middle of telling about some finds yesterday but didn't get the time before the day ended, and I'll get back to them in a few hours when I get back to my own computer and my notes.

cdubs:

you were also about to say something yesterday?

[Johoohno]

vote: Cliquey

This play is seriously scummy to me. Since I'm only a vanilla I realize that I most likely will be lynched today,

Cliquey:

• No smart town aligned player would claim right after the doctor is killed, that will lead to him being killed during the night.
  
• As scum there is a few reasons for doing this. The scums know there isn't a cop if they both are ordinary goons, therefore cop is a safe claim for them. (This is still a stupid play though since it will be obvious as soon as he's gotten a townie lynched, but it will buy the scums one day lynch and one night kill).

Also, I understand that Cliquey says this:

Unrelated to Johoohno, I still feel that looking into why Budja was killed will prove fruitless and just send us in circles.

since she's trying to kill off all experienced players as quickly as possible, first Budja and now me.

Now Cliquey, I would like you to talk about the game and the players for awhile instead of focusing on a your fabrication of claim. Give us your thoughts on all the players in the game and when you come to me we can play your game and you can explain why you chose to investigate me.

[Johoohno]

Ebwop:

I started saying "there is a few reasons" above and the other reason for scum to claim cop I was about to mention is that if the scums are a goon and a roleblocker they know there is a cop in this setup. Then the one who is a goon may then claim cop in order to get counter claimed and that way, even if the cop claiming scum is killed, the other scum can then easily night kill the cop and then there will still be one scum and just a bunch of vanilla townies left.

[Johoohno]

Addendum (sorry about the many posts):

If there is a cop out there, do not counter claim Cliquey

[Johoohno]

There are quite a few things that make Cliquey’s claim fishy, these below stand out the most:

• I find it strange Cliquey hasn’t voted me yet (I would expect a cop to vote the scum right in the same post she claims and presents she's found scum). Cliquey finds it strange I voted for her in my first post after her claim, but to me that is the sound and reasonable thing to do as soon as you’ve caught someone doing something scummy enough.
  
• Cliquey says that she investigated me (post 184, in the middle) only because my name stood out since she had played with me before.
  I have never played with Cliquey!
  (check my previous posts or my wiki page). However, in post 193, she directs us to another game she’s been in. And lo and behold,
  she has played with Budja (a player now dead in this game).
  Now which way was it, were you targeting me or Budja in this game, and was it an investigation or a night kill?
  
• She refuses to post any suspicions of anyone else when I asked her (once again post 184, linked above). I cannot see why a claimed cop in a game where the doctor is dead wants to withhold any information. Though, I do see why a scum would want to avoid leaving any connections and thoughts.

As much as I am certain you are scum, I don’t want you lynched until you’ve done a write up of everyone in the game.

unvote

(to avoid risking your scum partner or yourself to hammer in order to avoid further errors)

Once that info is presented I’m ready to re-vote you again.

[Johoohno]

@ Jeromus

• Do you believe that Cliquey has presented a valid explanation as to why she investigated me? She said my name stood out because she played with me before. How come she then can't or won't prove it? We can see that she has played with Budja before, shouldn't his name then have "stood out" more? Why didn't she investigate him?
  
• Do you also see how she is trying to get away from giving her view of everyone else, even though that is the basis for how mafia is played? And since she has claimed cop and she herself says that she will probably die either today or tonight, she should give her view of the players to help town finding scum tomorrow.
  
• Finally you accuse me of lurking without any basis. If you go back and check this game and my posts in the other games I've played and modded lately you'll see that I post one or two posts per day approximately: sometimes one in the early morning and mostly one in the late afternoon/evening (GMT+1).

@ Cliquey:

Post your thoughts on all players!

@ Mod:

Please prod cdubs and aminal

[Johoohno]

I notice that Cliquey continues to just ignore telling the rest of us her view of all the players, despite having been asked plenty of times.

Vote: Cliquey

@ everyone:

Today you need to decide on me or Cliquey, you cannot afford to wait with that until tomorrow, where we might be in LyLo if the wrong decision is made (and then have to go through this ordeal again if it hasn’t been resolved today). Therefore you need to really ask yourself this questions:

Do you believe the cop claim?

If you’ve answered yes on the questions above then how do you explain these things (since Cliquey herself, strangely enough, is unwilling to give you that information)

• Why is Cliquey unwilling to present her view of everyone else (do you see any townie reasons for her avoiding that answer?)?
  
• Why can’t she explain why she “investigated me” with a better explanation than one that actually makes it more likely she would’ve investigated Budja? (I actually think this is quite a major slip on her behalf, where she messes up the night killed she and her partner planned and their planned cop claim and investigation).

It feels as if I’m really fighting a losing battle here, since it’s cop claim vs vanilla claim (as I said in post 179), but you as town shouldn’t settle with less than Cliquey giving in on the two items asked of above. That will make it easier to find scum number two tomorrow. Do not give in to her wish of you discussing about who the other scum might be before she’s answered above questions, if she gets away with that the scums will only know so much more whom to kill coming night and whom they can easily frame tomorrow.

[Johoohno]

Short stop before I head off to work: I had serious trouble logging in yesterday, but I started pulling my notes together to make a summary of everyone before this game day is over. I'll post that sometime during this week (hopefully before the weekend).

[Johoohno]

Welcome Sevis.

I'm done with my reread and will post a player analysis tomorrow evening when I've got more time.

As to answer your question about what I'd have done had I bneen a cop with a guilty result. If I were replacing in like CLiquey did I wouldn't have claimed cop right away, but I would probably have said something like "Hideliho all, I find X to be most suspicious after a brief glanse at the thread, but I need to reread /just got replaced the other day and hasn't had time doing that yet." This way if/when I got killed that post wuld hoopefully be checked at as a breadcrumb, and I would have a better chanse of getting another nights investigation without being targeted. Depending on my play and suspicions thrown my way I would breadcrumb/claim or the like. Since I have a history of appearing slightly scummy no matter role I would trust that to get me through next night alive.

[Johoohno]

Now this was fun ... even after my death

Great job + thanks cdubs and good game all!

Cliquey: you came out a bit too aggressive, therefore I almost got you there. It gave me a lot of fires I only needed to fuel a bit. (Care to PM me your alt, I'm done to only a few candiadets )

I actually thought of having TBM/Cliquey roleblocked over DC, I should have gone with that feeling. But D2 was the most fun day I've had I think. McGriddle: you shouldn't have voted me in the end there (I think it was you who did it). I had promise to come up with some new information, you should have let the real days pass along there. Either I would have posted the analysis (which was my plan, you only beat me to it with a couple of hours) and thus giving you more to analyse, or I wouldn'ät have posted anything interesting and that would have made me look worse. I would have been lynched either way.

If it's okay with cdubs, the mod is free to post our private mafia night communication.

Thanks farside for modding too.