Newbie 897 ~ Mafia Marching Band (Game Over!)

[Lacey]

/Confirm

[Lacey]

/confirm. sorry. was at university all day today.

Hi Slaxx! Good to see you again, *hugs*!!!

Hello everyone, so nice to meet you. I look forward to seeing you all in game!

-Lacey

[Lacey]

Vote werdna0418

for being the first to confirm without an Avatar.

Since Random votes don't help any of us much, we need to start talking guys. Let's discuss scum hunting 101. Everyone should post something useful. Use the wiki if you don't know anything.

This will give us two direct benefits, posts to analyze for scum tells, or scummy folks not helping us identify scum with bad advice, and it will help us all learn the game! Everybody wins (except scum!).

Tip #1 (From Mastin's Insane Tells): Buddying is anti-town. If someone starts to buddy up with you, they are likely scum trying to create tunnel vision in you ("They can't be scum, they're my buddy!") and false scum connections to you should the town lynch them ("Hey, those two always agreed and voted together, they must be scum buddies!").

If someone starts to buddy let them for a bit, then call a lynch on them.

[Lacey]

vote

Lacey

because she pwned me last game. and I'm taking botany right now and the last thing I need to see is a flower. *hugs back*

Awww I actually loved botany myself. One of my most recent jobs was actually with a botany company

[Lacey]

Hello Yankee,

I've played 1 game on this site, and read a lot of other games. No games in real life.

I'd like to request everyone follow my discussion topic on posting tips on scum hunting. The Wiki is a great source, and I'll be looking at any who dodge such a great way to improve town play as possible scum.

[Lacey]

I do it manually

[b*]VOTE: MCGRIDDLE[/b*]

Just take out the *'s

So are you voting me or not? lol

A little worried McGriddle? I don't see you offering advice on scum hunting...

Unvote: werdna0418, Vote:McGriddle

[Lacey]

for a real, but far-fetched, reason*

Anyways,

I disagree that Lacey is acting too pro-town, she IS just trying to help people, like people who have their first games, even though she isn't SE she is STILL somewhat experienced.

I'm feeling more and more like you're the scum that needs to be lynched McGriddle.

1) You've still not chimed in with how to get scum lynched.
2) As Yankee said, complaining about L-3, especially when we're more or less just random voting right now is a bit of an over reaction.
3) Calling my vote on you scummy, followed by this post is pretty classic scum.

I'm not saying I know for sure you are scum, and honestly I was going to make the case to lynch a lurker (scum try to fly below the radar), but right now you're looking awfully scummy.

And yes, I am just trying to help people. The wiki is a great read and resource and if we want to win this for the town, we all need to read it, think about it, and watch for scum.

My suggestion, let's put the heat on McGriddle. McGriddle, you have some explaining to do.

[Lacey]

BUT that being said, you just put me at L-2

for a real reason

, and that doesn't sit well with me.

WOW! I missed this first time. Scum slip much? It doesn't sit well with you that Yankee put you at L-2 for a REAL reason?

[Lacey]

We need to give McGriddle a chance to talk and explain himself, we can't hammer too early at this point, we want everyone talking and taking sides.

Right now if McGriddle does end up being town, I've got my

FoS

on Marco91 and whoever hammers.

[Lacey]

he explains in his next post.

Thanks Slaxx I missed that!

[Lacey]

See what I meant?

We need to give McGriddle some time to talk, and try and explain himself. Doing so will either reveal more scummy actions and explanations, or help him to make his point.

But I agree, he seems pretty scummy right now.

[Lacey]

Agree with Slaxx. I still think McGriddle is probable scum, but this whole play between him and Marco and Flareonage seems suspect. I'm convinced one of them is scum. Marco91 is looking the best right now.

Unvote: McGriddle, Vote: Marco91

I'm putting an

FoS

on two possible scum pairings, McGriddle, Flareonage or Marco91, Flareonage.

I say we lynch Marco91 this turn, and then let Flareonage and McGriddle explain their actions so we can decide who to lynch next.

[Lacey]

And you say everybody should vote for me, without the chance to explain myself?

Marco91, I never said that, check my posts. I think you're the lynch, but believe me I really want you to talk. Because then you say things like this. Lying is a scummy thing to do, especially when others can check the post records.

Talking me out of my vote for you is getting harder, because pro-town players don't make up non-existent facts like you just did. Maybe it's a newbie error, but maybe not.

My gut still says McGriddle is scum. But you look pretty scummy too.

[Lacey]

Wow, Marco, you come on here, and you are ready to put me up to L-1 for such an empty reason? You guys are willing to lynch an SE for making the accusation that I was "upset" that someone put me at L-3?

This is SO scummy.

So is an appeal to authority McGriddle. An SE is just as likely to be scum as any other player. I can't speak for the other players, but I want to see some explanations for your scummy behavior, not finger pointing.

[Lacey]

Well Yankee, if I've made an unfortunate anti-town play I apologize. I'm trying to put the pressure on folks I think are scum to get them talking. If I get to L-1, I'll post my full thoughts and scum lists with quotes for the board before I get hanged (that way if someone does hammer, you'll know one scum for sure, the person keeping info out of the hands of the town).

Personally I do think the behavior of McGriddle, Marco91 and Flareonage is suspicious, though after making my lists I'm leaning far heavier on Marco91 and Flareonage.

[Lacey]

Why wait until then to give the town your thoughts on other players.

Because it's day 1, and I'm hoping to get more scum tells from those players along similar lines. Since none of my targets have justified or explained their behavior, I am guessing pointing it out will lead to them covering it up in the future, and we want scum to be less, not more careful.

Also since it's day 1, I may be completely off base, and we have to lynch somebody, so I'm going to push my leads.

The town should be willing to spread their knowledge around so that they can help the other town players to make a more informed decision. Keeping information like you list here to yourself is both anti-town and scummy at the same time. (yes, there is a difference.)

I disagree with this highly, but since, as I say, we have to lynch somebody, I'll post my arguments.

[Lacey]

Scum List & Notes
=================

Late confirm suspicions: Slaxx, Flareonage, Yankke, Marco91

Marco91
=======
Alignment: Probable Scum
Scummy Behavior:
PS 48: Brings McGriddle to L-1
(moderate confidence scum)
(Note this may proclude a Marco91-McGriddle scum pairing, which ever one is town the other is likely scum)
PS 53:

"I think you should do it. But that's your choice."

RE: Flareonage hammering
Scummy, suggests Flareonage-Marco91 scum pairing.
(moderate confidence scum)
PS 55:

"Ok then, i apologize for tempting you. The last thing i wanna do is sound like the scum."

Loudly vocally saying what he won't do, because doing it would piss off town.

Looks like scum posturing as pro-town in hopes we buy the act.

(high confidence scum tell)
PS 71:

"And you [Lacey] say everybody should vote for me, without the chance to explain myself?"

I never said this
(high confidence scum tell)

Flareonage
==========
Alignment: Maybe Scum
Scummy Behavior:
PS 49:

"I'm EXTREMELY tempted to hammer. I have done it so many times already but it just pisses everyone off so I'm not gonna do it now."

Threatens to Hammer
(moderate confidence scum)
Says what he won't do to look like he is appeasing town.

Looks like scum posturing as pro-town in hopes we buy the act.

(high confidence scum)
PS 54:

"Stop tempting me. If I do it everyone else will be pissed when they show up. This is way too soon for a lynch. Believe me, I've prematurely hammered 3 times already"

Loudly and vocally saying what he won't do, because doing it would piss off town.

Looks like scum posturing as pro-town in hopes we buy the act.

(high confidence scum)
PS 65:

"Why should I not hammer you? Are you beneficial to the town?"

This is way, WAY too early to be saying something like this

, it looks like an attempt to turn our attention on the already easy target.
(moderate confidence scum)
PS 67:

"I doubt he was aware he was putting someone at L-1. This is a newbie game, he probably wasn't paying attention."

Quickly jumping to his scum buddies defense?
(only a scumtell if Marco91 is scum)

McGriddle
=========
Alignment: Probable Scum
Scummy Behavior:
PS 20: Says

"How about some questions anyone?"

but doesn't propose any of his own.
(low confidence scum)
PS 33: Mistakes (faking it as scum buddies?) Flareonage's discussion of bolding for a vote on him.
(low confidence scum)
PS 37:

"I'm not worried, but you should be, you put me at L-3 already That's even more scummy"

Worried about being L-3, which is ridiculous
(moderate confidence scum)
Makes a threat against a player voting on him.
(moderate confidence scum)
PS 37:

"let's seeeeee, being aggressive is not a scum-tell, scum doesn't always want to see people get lynched, a lot of scum want to not be a part of any wagon so they can have 2 kills while under the radar."

Instead of offering a tip to hunt scum, he offers a tip to hunt town.
(low confidence scum)
Worse yet, this is written from a the point of View of scum!
(high confidence scum)
PS 43:

"I disagree that Lacey is acting too pro-town, she IS just trying to help people"

Right after fingering me with a threat (PS 37), and calling my second vote on him
a scum tell, he now says I am not "too pro-town" and trying to help people, a seeming reversal of his previous opinion and quick. Due to the pressure on him?
(moderate confidence scum)

werdna0418
==========
Alignment: Maybe Town
Town Behavior
PS 31: Responds in detail to both my question and Yankee's
(low confidence pro-town)

Slaxx
=====
Alighment: Probable Town
Town Behavior
PS 50: Notes Macro91's behavior
(moderate confidence pro-town)
PS 66: Note's Flareonage's vote, puts pressure on Marco91
(moderate confidence pro-town)

Yankee
======
Alignment: Probable Town
Town Behavior
PS 29: Asks a question, provides some answers
(low confidence pro-town)

[Lacey]

P.S. - Another scum tactic is to throw around suspicion to make it look like they are suspicious of multiple people, therefore making it easier to switch votes, etc. Can anyone go back and check how many people Lacey has said is suspicious, in just three pages no less....

Yankee, you're an IC so I'm a bit surprised you'd say this. I have fingered exactly three people as suspicious:

McGriddle, Marco91, and Flareonage.

You've fingered

four

. McGriddle, Me, Marco91, and Flareonage.

So if you find it suspicious I've fingered three as suspicious, the same argument applies to you, and I'd like to see some indepth explanations of your behavior too. You've thrown around suspicion on more folks than I have, and you've switched your vote only one less time than I have (and to be fair, my first switch was from a random vote to someone I wanted to pressure to talk).

I'm not saying I think you are scum. I've still got my money on Marco91 or McGriddle, paired with Flareonage right now. But if you're going to claim my behavior is scummy, you need to admit yours has been the same and we both need to answer to the town.

[Lacey]

oh wow..... I dont know what to think of this. It is obvious you have already written this and just copied and pasted it, which is a definite town tell because scum in no way would put that much effort in attempting to look like they are scum hunting. And for those of you that wont read this anytime soon, I say that she had to have already had that written is because she posted all of that in a matter of minutes. I am now thinking Lacey is town just because she had such a well and thought out analysis she was using for herself to scum hunt. Scum dont need to scum hunt and therefore will not have anything remotely like this.

Unvote.

(Note I'd still like to hear an explanation to your specious reasoning I mentioned in PS 83... we all need to explain as much as we can so the town get's the best read on all of us, and I'd like to hear this explanation).

[Lacey]

Ah, I stand corrected. You see, I did not actually go and read your posts in ISO

Fair enough for now.

I no longer view Mcgriddle with much if any suspicion.

I agree Flare and Marco look scummier but this still hits me in the gut with a scum sense:

let's seeeeee, being aggressive is not a scum-tell, scum doesn't always want to see people get lynched, a lot of scum want to not be a part of any wagon so they can have 2 kills while under the radar."

My reasons from above:

Instead of offering a tip to hunt scum, he offers a tip to hunt town.
(low confidence scum)
Worse yet, this is written from a the point of View of scum!
(high confidence scum)

I am sometimes an insomniac when it comes to Mafia, lol.

Yes, this I can definitely relate to.

And oh yeah,

Vote: Flareonage

This is a bandwagon I can get on, but I'm going to stick to Marco91 for a bit. I'd rather they both sweat and start talking for their lives.

But anyways, I really do need to go to bed like now, so will catch up in the morning with any replies to this.

Sleep well, and sweet dreams!

[Lacey]

can someone explain to me what ps is? and ls?

Post Subject. It's an index into the conversation.

[Lacey]

ANother term that i have learned in my chat mafia is WIFOM...to methis made me a little suspicious here because it seemed that yankee was like it couldnt be alcey because town would not scum hunt so much....how does she know what that specific player would do at that role? Wouldnt you do things like that when you had suspicion on you to try to make you look like you were protown? just a thought

Actually werdna0418, what you are suggesting here is WIFOM, not what Yankee suggested. Yankee's suggestion falls under Ockham's Razor, i.e. the simplest explanation is often correct.

Scum have no need to collect evidence, they know who the scum are, and thus don't have to scum hunt. WIFOM is then to say "But scum know this, and knowing this, would scum hunt" or "And town know this and not wanting to look scummy wouldn't scum hunt"

We all should be scum hunting, and I'd love to see similar lists from all of you.

[Lacey]

Lacey, it is terribly anti-town to list your probable townies, although I agree with Yankee that your scum-hunting list is indeed pro-town, you NEVER want to list your probable townies. I will explain more on this after breakfast.

Nevermind. I won't explain more unless somebody asks lol.

No. You will explain immediately. There is nothing anti-town about listing probable townies. The mafia already know and we need to get good reads town or scum so we can analyze bandwagons, votes and such. It helps us to create a web of trust.

None of us should get tunnel vision, so nothing is set in stone. Update your scum lists with new information as things change. Yankee's entry, for example changed to this last night:

Yankee
======
Alignment: Unknown
Scummy Behavior
PS 86: "You see, I did not actually go and read your posts in ISO, I asked others to go check"
Asking others to do his work for him, implies a judgement without logic. Or begging others to make his case as he doesn't want to scum hunt.
(low confidence scum)
PS 77: "Another scum tactic is to throw around suspicion to make it look like they are suspicious of multiple people, therefore making it easier to switch votes, etc. Can anyone go back and check how many people Lacey has said is suspicious, in just three pages no less"
He has by this point put suspicion on four individuals, where as I have only three. Not counting random votes we've both vote swapped an equal number of times by this point.
His accusation of scummy behavior only holds if he is scum too.
(low confidence scum)

Town Behavior
PS 29: Asks a question, provides some answers
(low confidence pro-town)
PS 84: Once presented with evidence is willing to back down rather than press an illogical attack.
(low confidence pro-town)

I highly advise every town player to keep such a list, it makes it far easier to track the pros and cons of each player as scum, helps to organize your thoughts, and provides a reference to the PS of each bit of evidence.

[Lacey]

I say we lynch Marco91 this turn, and then let Flareonage and McGriddle explain their actions so we can decide who to lynch next.

PS 71: "And you [Lacey] say everybody should vote for me, without the chance to explain myself?"
I never said this

Then what is that?

I can see how that could be misinterpreted, so I accept your explanation to THIS accusation (you still have to answer for the others). What I mean is you're my most probable scum now, and this is my plan for lynches, barring new information.

@Yankee, I think the scum are more likely to try not to appear scum, by dong that kind of thing.

WIFOM is scummy.

@McGriddle, I really don't have an explanation, i just wanted some lynched asap.

Well with explanations like this, you might get your wish. Seriously, you're L-1, now is the time to start talking.

[Lacey]

Also, I have a question for Lacey. You said 2 of the more probable scum pairings are Mcgriddle/Flare and Marco/Flare, yet you chose to vote Marco. Why would you rather not vote Flare since he is in both pairings? This seems like it would be a more logical thing to do.

Three reasons:

#1 I want the pressure on Marco. I see votes as more than just a way to lynch. Since Marco is near a lynch he ought to start talking to try and clear his name. If he is scum he will either be caught in a lie, or refuse to cooperate, both of which solidify the choice. My vote on him is not necessarily final. If Marco can give a good account of his actions, I'm willing to move my vote.

#2 The scum pairings are just a guess right now. Flare might just be a newbie. I don't think he is, but it's possible. Either case, Marco was the one giving him orders, so I have Marco figured for the scum strategist in that pairing. Just as mafia are best served by killing leaders at night, town is best served by sniffing out the mafia ring leader and killing the strategist.

#3 Being in both of my suggested scum pairings doesn't mean Flare is more likely scum. I think Macro (and maybe McGriddle... I'm still processing his responses) are more likely scum, but a Marco-McGriddle pairing is unlikely. If that pairing were true, Marco would never have egged flare on to hammer. The issue at hand is they are independent events.

From a purely probabilistic point of view, their independence means their joint probabilities are just their individual probabilities. Flare's appearence in both of my sets does not mean he has a higher probability of being scum. For all I know you could be Marcos scum buddy. Until I have more evidence on the table, scum pairings are pure conjecture which I'm sharing only to give out the most information as possible.

That being said,

Flare, the longer you stay silent, the more swayed I am by Yankee's arguments

. If you hammer Marco before we get more out of him, I will push aggressively to see you lynched tomorrow, and your buddy right afterwards. If you don't talk and explain yourself, I will be tempted to lynch you today.

And Datadanne. Stop lurking. Start talking.

Weigh in on the discussion I want to hear your views.

mavsfan41

. I'd like to hear your take on this too. We all need to start discussing in detail.

[Lacey]

WIFOM Stands for "Wine in Front of Me" and and example of this is when a scum says or does something that attempts to confuse the town by making them think that "he cannot be scum because what he did would not benefit himself at all, but maybe he just did that to throw us off, but If he did that he cant be scum, or is he just playing with us, etc...."

While WIFOM is a typical scum tell, I want to correct Yankee's definition as it is something all players, scum or otherwise are tempted to do. Experienced players know just to stay away from it.

WIFOM is a situation where a given player, let's call her

Arianne

would be expected to act in a certain way given her alignment. Let's say she acts in that way.

If another player, let's call him

Nelson

sees this, he needs to decide how to read this play. Let's take a look at some strategies.

Ockham's Razor

-

The simplest explanation is usually the right one.

If

Nelson

follows Ockham's Razor, a logical point of view, he interprets

Arianne's{/b] actions as they appear to be.

WIFOM

-

Knowing a certain action would be interpreted as being what a player of a given alignment would do, that player will then act in a way that is contrary to what is expected

.

If

Nelson

chooses to analyze with WIFOM, he has a problem. Here is how his analysis would go:

1) If

Arianne

knows that

Nelson

expects her to act in a certain way, to conceal her identity she will act in a different way.
2) But, since

Nelson

knows that

Arianne

knows what he expects, if she acts differently, he suspects her of doing it to confuse him.
3) Since

Arianne

knows that

Nelson

knows that

Arianne

knows the expectations, she will act contrary.
4) ...etc, ad infinitum.

In the end WIFOM introduces no new information and simply becomes a logical fallacy of argumentum ad infinitum and intentional obfuscation.

Scum screw up when they try and do these sorts of things, dropping scum tells. Arguments based on WIFOM are anti-town for these reasons.

[Lacey]

for the moment i am going to

unvote[/b*] because

Sweetie, I just want to point out your bolding didn't work. You can't have stars or other symbols in your tags if you want the bolding to show up. It's an easy mistake to make, and I know how tough it is to learn how this forum works.

[Lacey]

Lol I am so sorry I really am trying to play and figure it out please done hate me guys...

Don't be sorry, we're all learning. We're all making mistakes, my first game, the forums drove me absolutely bossies.

[Lacey]

Lol I am so sorry I really am trying to play and figure it out please done hate me guys...

this is an AtE. I will post more when I get dome freeeeeeeeee time.


BTW everyone, I made my own McGriddle this morning. And to answer your question, it was great. Baha.

How about answering all the real questions? You keep saying you will when you get "free time", or "after breakfast", but you haven't. We're not going to forget.

[Lacey]

what is AtE?

Appeal to Emotion. McGriddle is trying to look like he is scum hunting while not really do it in my opinion.

[Lacey]

i get what an appeal to an emotion was buti dont get how in this situation it was a scumtell...

I don't believe it was. Questions about the forum are friendly, because it's just a game and we're allowed to want to be friendly too each other outside of game play actions.

I think McGriddle is grasping at straws because he is likely scum. The more he doesn't explain, and the more he tries to FoS on things which don't (in my opinion) deserve it, the more swayed I am to a McGriddle-Flare scum pairing.

Flare's whole "I'd really like to hammer, but I won't! Hey did I mention I'd like to hammer but I'm not going to do it!" seems like a scum buddy trying to appear to appease town and put some distance between himself and his scum buddie.

Yankee, mavsfan41, Slaxx, can I get your opinions on this?

[Lacey]

Unvote

To prevent potential hammer while we're still discussing.

[Lacey]

Marco was at L-1, werdna unvoted, putting him at L-2, Flare voted for him, putting him at L-1, I unvoted to prevent a hammer.

Marco is at L-2.

I think Flare knew it, as did Marco and they're putting on a show to make us think they aren't scum personally.

[Lacey]

I believe the following is accurate:

Original Vote from PS 92

PS 111, werdna unvotes
PS 123, Flareonage unvotes, votes Marco91
PS 124, Marco91 Unvotes
PS 125, Lacey Unvotes
PS 126, Marco91 Votes Flareonage
PS 130, werdna Votes Flareonage

Vote Count:
Marco91 (L-2) ~ McGriddle, Slaxx, Flareonage
Flareonage (L-2) ~ Yankee, Marco91, werdna

And Flareonage, you're not fooling anyone, she did bold her vote. Check my record.

[Lacey]

And for the record, I am not putting my vote anywhere until we hear from:

Yankee

Slaxx

and

mavsfan41

regarding the posts today. I'd also like to hear from

Datadanne

if he can log in.

McGriddle, you're posting a lot but not answering our questions. This is very scummy. It shows you do indeed have the time you claim not to have.

I'm still FoSing McGriddle, Flareonage, and Marco91

[Lacey]

BTW This is really scummy

I would like to ask everyone to read McGriddle's latest post and all of the "scum hunting tips" he has given out. I disagree with all of them, several are written from the scum POV, so I come to one of two conclusions:

1) Newbie who is very mistaken and turned around
2) Scum

This, combined with the charade he and Flare have been putting on for us seems to finger them heavily. My FoS is still on you too Marco. You and Flare still haven't given us good accounts for your actions and opinions.

[Lacey]

Now, you don't want to list probable townies because that can give those "probable townies" a free pass, they can show that if any of the people you are thinking are townies is on a wagon, hammer voting, or L-1ing a townsperson the fact that they are listed as probable townie will provide no pressure from them. Scum would be able to use a probable townie list to their advantage and if the scum is good they will most likely wind up on the probable townie list, giving them a free pass the rest of the game. If you have a probable townie list it is better for town to keep it to yourself.

I disagree heavily with this. "Probable town" doesn't mean "don't look for evidence" it just means "no evidence yet, and some evidence for pro-town".

[Lacey]

Showing that usually the less-aggressive players are more likely town and more-aggressive players who banter other players but does not have a vote are more likely to be scum, but if someone is aggressive and sticks with their vote from their own reads, and contributes more than personal shots they are probably town. I hope that clears up some confusion.

This like all your "scum hunting" tips is absolutely false. You are trying to mislead the town. McGriddle, you convincing me more and more that you are scum.

Caution is a scum tell, where Recklessness is a Town Tell.

[Lacey]

Well if you disagree at least do it respectfully. You are still showing tunnel vision, and when you say i'm "trying to mislead the town" that's your OPINION not FACT. I am trying to help the town, especially the newer players, see some ways to tell if somebody is pro-scum.

The fact that you treat my tip as 'misleading' means you don't like the way I do things. If you didn't want to have me try to help out newbies with some scum-hunting tips of my own, then you shouldn't have asked and you SURE as hell shouldn't have pushed so hard for me to tell my advice.

I asked for them McGriddle, precisely because I knew scum would be reluctant to post real scum hunting tips, and might try and mislead the town.

Anyone who didn't post, or posted bad tips would be giving scum tells.

You are correct, it is my opinion. When we lynch you and prove you scum, then it will be fact. In the mean time I encourage folks to read your posts, and think about your "scum hunting" tips.

[Lacey]

(And as an aside, I'm fingering you, your likely scum buddy Flare, and Macro, so how am I suffering from tunnel vision? I'm focusing on several likely scum and working on getting you lynched.)

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... em_Lynched

[Lacey]

I find it odd that Lacey hasn't put her vote on anybody. Some pressure> No pressure.

Fair enough, though right now I'm leaning Flareonage.

Vote: Marco91

[Lacey]

I find it odd that Lacey hasn't put her vote on anybody. Some pressure> No pressure.

Fair enough, though right now I'm leaning Flareonage.

Vote: Marco91

And i find odd that you vote me only to prove that you are pro-town.

Nice try scum, but I'm doing nothing of the sort. Slaxx asked for pressure, I'm applying it, because I am not yet ready to lynch Flare, or you for that matter, until we hear from Yankee and others on today. I'm more than happy to lynch either of you two, or McGriddle by then.

[Lacey]

That pretty much suggests a Flareonage/Marco scumpair for me.

Yeah. Although his readiness to vote Marco to L-1, and reluctance to hammer McGriddle suggests the opposite.

I think Lacey might be slightly too rough on Mcgriddle.

Let's see what happens when we lynch tonight. Who is your call? Flare or Marco?

I think if these lurkers dont start talking we'll lynch them soon too.

Agreed. Though let's lynch Flare or Marco tonight. See where the lurkers fall.

[Lacey]

Agreed. Though let's lynch Flare or Marco tonight. See where the lurkers fall.

In case it wasn't clear. Tonight in game time, not real time. We've got until Feb 1st to lynch for Day 1. Let's think it over as a town.

[Lacey]

Shall we lynch all lurkers or stick with where the flow of the game was going?

I'm for lynching the likely scum first, unless it turns out our scum targets were way off.

[Lacey]

Agreed. Though let's lynch Flare or Marco tonight. See where the lurkers fall.

Is this a slip? Don't you mean lynch Flare or Marco today? Scum will be night killing tonight

Oh my goodness, grasping at straws. If I'm talking about a lynch, it's obviously a lynch. You know you could try and defend yourself and your actions logically.

The fact that you haven't is why people have you at L-1. The fact that you have sat at L-1 all day and the mafia haven't hammered pretty much

proves

you are scum.

In fact the more I think about that last part the more convinced I am you are who we need to lynch.

[Lacey]

Just updated my scum lists for the day and I have a case against Flareonage to lay out in detail.

First I will give my summary of the case file, followed by it in full form.

• He made a big play of wanting to hammer but not doing so, which looks like obvious town posturing, especially when combined with his pretend hammer of Marco91. (PS 49, 54, 65)
  
• In PS 123, he responded to a theory I had posted about McGriddle being scum by saying

  Let's test that theory. Unvote VOTE: Marco91"

  The theory wasn't Marco91, but McGriddle.
  
• In PS 145 and 161 he declares loudly that we know he is town, and others are far scummier than Marco91:

  You say this in a scum point of view, saying it pisses everyone off, meaning you know I am town, and voting me would piss everyone off so you're not going to do it. "

  McGriddle has a higher chance of being scum then either of us put together and even then he's not scummy

  This defense of Marco91 feels especially scummy. Why should he care about Marco91, especially since he put his vote on Marco91? Posturing and defending his scum buddy seems the best way to read this.
  
• He has been at L-1 nearly all day and the scum haven't hammered him. Not a for sure sign, but it's worth noting in the pile.
  
• See more evidence below.

Here are my notes in full:

Code: Select all

Flareonage
==========
Alignment: Probable Scum
Scummy Behavior:
PS 49: "I'm EXTREMELY tempted to hammer. I have done it so many 
   times already but it just pisses everyone off so I'm not gonna do it   
   now."
   Threatens to Hammer
   (moderate confidence scum)
   Says what he won't do to look like he is appeasing town.
   (high confidence scum)
PS 54: "Stop tempting me. If I do it everyone else will be pissed when 
   they show up. This is way too soon for a lynch. Believe me, I've 
   prematurely hammered 3 times already"
   Loudly and vocally saying what he won't do, because doing it would piss 
   off town.
   Looks like scum posturing as pro-town in hopes we buy the act.
   (high confidence scum)
PS 65: "Why should I not hammer you? Are you beneficial to the town?"
   This is way, WAY too early to be saying something like this, it looks like
   an attempt to turn our attention on the already easy target.
   (moderate confidence scum)
PS 67: "I doubt he was aware he was putting someone at L-1. This is a 
   newbie game, he probably wasn't paying attention."
   Quickly jumping to his scum buddies defense?
   (only a scumtell if Marco91 is scum)
PS 123: "Let's test that theory. Unvote VOTE: Marco91"
   The theory was about him and McGriddle, not Marco91
   (moderate confidence scum tell)
PS 137: "Werdna never unvoted. The post was not bolded and therefore 
   doesn't count"
   (Yes she did)
PS 145: "You say this in a scum point of view, saying it pisses everyone 
   off, meaning you know I am town, and voting me would piss everyone    
   off so you're not going to do it. "
   Scum scum scummy, doesn't mean he is town
   (moderate confidence scum tell)
PS 161: "McGriddle has a higher chance of being scum then either of us 
   put together and even then he's not scummy"
   Wow scummy, defend your scum buddy much?
   (high confidence scum, only if McGriddle is scum)

[Lacey]

If I don't hear any objections from the town, I plan to vote Flareonage tonight at around 7pm Central Standard Time.

[Lacey]

Well we've heard from everyone now. So I think it's time.

Vote:Flareonage

[Lacey]

Goodness, I forgot to unvote.

Unvote: Marco91

Vote:Flareonage

[Lacey]

And the hammer comes crashing down on Flareonage.

Lacey, before we go into night, what do you think about datadannes vote on you?

I don't know what to think yet. Datadanne's posts are barely intelligable and he hasn't said much at all yet.

[Lacey]

While everyone is blaming Rayfrost, I think the biggest misplay was by mavsfan. While he did a decent job of identifying himself as a cop (I had an unrevealed part of my investigation where I had him pegged as cop from day one), he made it look like a scum plot by later flipping out and launching into insane personal attacks and AtE.

Personally I'm very disappointed at the level of personal attacks that got thrown around, and the needless swearing. I'm glad I wasn't in game when civility broke down as it was just sad.

Really town lost this one, because too many town players (datadanne, flareonage, marco, and later mavsfan) were acting scummy. Town had only a handful of players who were in the game and trying to help the town out.

Datadanne is the one which gets me the most. He ruined the game for a lot of folks by refusing to participate. Why did he even sign up?

[Lacey]

The game's activity went down severely after his death, and we never really recovered after that.

Her death sweetie.

[Lacey]

I thought mcgriddle was fairly obvious, hence my day 2 FoS. Town was pretty gullible this game tbh.

Agreed. Though I think a larger problem was scummy town members.