Newbie 869 - Game over

[Pulindar]

Hello Everyone, I just confirmed with Vel Via PM, Since he is probably waiting for my confirm to introduce me, I'm letting you know that I'm here. Now, I'd rather not post anything of sustenance until he introduces me, but I have read the thread and am ready to get started.

I'm so happy to be Joining.

[Pulindar]

Thanks Zorblag. And thanks for posting here Vel.

I'm VT, so no doctor counter claim

As for the No Lynch, I agree that that's the best bet for the day, and I will probably be voting it, but I'd like to talk to the group a bit before I do.

As for Mr. Finch and his actions, I think that he was honestly a passive player who felt innocent until proven guilty was the way to look at things. a Mislynch being much worse in his mind, than a no lynch. It also seems to me that the main reason you are suspecting him is because he stopped posting and left. I realize that bringing in replacements like this tends to make it more difficult for town, so I hope this doesn't end up killing us.
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Summary

Now, I know I'm town, but obviously you guys can't take my word for that. I think that we actually only have one town power role, but I'm not sure that either of the two claimers are mafia, and while I will probably vote nolynch, the person I would most likely have voted for was Deer.

Longer post forthcoming

[Pulindar]

Probably should have said this last post,
@Zorb I do see your logic with a quick no lynch, but honestly I'm going on a weekend trip (moving to LA) and I'd rather not miss the start of the next day.
Plus it seems a bit scummie to me to just vote no lynch right away without even talking to anyone.

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Changing before posting.

Dang you Zorb, you're making it so that I don't want to say something until tomorrow

I had a three page argument written, and no Deer it wasn't an all out attack on you, it was simply my thoughts and how they have progressed so far. I'm saving it in a word file to reveal tomorrow. Today I think no lynch is best, but as I said before I leave over the weekend and I'd like to talk to everyone before anything happens.

So, if anyone has any questions or anything they wish to ask please feel free.

I liked DLA's questions, so I'll answer them for myself

Code: Select all

Previous experience with Forum Mafia:
What role do you prefer playing? (Mafia, Town power role, Vanilla Townie)
How active are you, on average: (Every 24 hrs, 48 hrs, 72 hrs or more seldomly)

1: I've never played forum mafia before, I have played a few times in real life though.
2: I've read many roles, but haven't been able to play yet. Still, I think third party roles would be my favorite, especially mentor or Lyncher.
3: I have no idea, it depends on the game and on real life. My goal is a few times a day.

[Pulindar]

So, that puts No Lynch at four, and us into twilight.

[Pulindar]

Hello TNM,
I feel like I already know you because I've read so many of your posts I've read through the game a couple times, and while I could state my opinions I would prefer to wait a bit because as Zorb suggested, I don't want to give my hand away before the scum chooses who to kill tonight.

Though, I really hope I don't get lynched before I get to put in my thoughts. To be honest I was wondering if I would get a mafia role or not before jumping in, though I'll point that out later as well. I just hope that my mind isn't being manipulated away from stating my opinion before night. After tonight we will have a chance for one mislinch, and will then be in LyLo. We still need to be careful, but unless the player is great I think town'll win.

[Pulindar]

Good luck with your heal Jee. I hope I live, I have some good ideas I think.

[Pulindar]

At this moment I'm going to say that the way you made your post faintly surprised me, in a very good way. I'm having some trouble posting long posts, but I'm going to need to explain shortly so I will in a bit. BTW I am going V/LA starting late tonight early tomorrow and won't be back till Sunday or Monday night.

I do not plan on voting until my return.

[Pulindar]

Well Zorb, after reading your first post after the night I realized that my post would be counter-intuitive. Basically, I said that I felt that I thought both yourself and Jee were town, and that I think that the no kill from Jee's protect on Nacho made him seem pro-town as well.

On another part I mentioned how I town may not actually have any roles. I worried that Sens may have been so certain of Elli's guilt that he just made the fake claim to ensure a pro-town lynch. Here I'll just post it.

____________________________________________________________

I am a VT. It is now night three with six survivors. I need to edit this post.

Role Claimers

Yet again Deer attacks Elli for reasons that were already previously stated. Looks like he just is making it easy on himself and just using the same material everyone else uses.

Elli, I believe you are L-1, which means a role claim is in order.

This quote is what Jee said right before Elli's role claim. Honestly I don't know why no one else pointed this out earlier.

@ TNM: Elli and Jee had talks similar to Elli's talk with you back on day one, where Elli basically "Cleared" Jee then as well. Through his questions Elli decided that Jee was in fact completely clear.

Both the Quote and the discussions with the previous scum are things to consider, but honestly I still think Jee is actually doctor. Mainly because no one died last night.

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1. I'm a very aggressive player, that's just how I am. Not indicative of alignment.
2. The onyl relevant meta is that in every single game (3? 4?) I have played with DLA, he has been convinced I am Scum, and tunnelled on me pretty much to the exclusion of anyone else. Every time I've been Town.
3. He is implying I'm scummy for not doing something, then refuses to do that thing himself.

part of my thoughts with Sens/Zorb starts with the whole DLA thing. Sens really might not have picked up on it, but my read from DLA was that, DLA always finds Sens scummy and until he had someone better to vote for he was going to focus on Sens. DLA said that his reasons didn't matter, and that Sens would understand, but Sens just claimed not to. I think what DLA was getting at with his reasons not mattering, was that they couldn't fully be trusted, and he knew that, because he always reads Sens as scummy, and was waiting to see if the town would support him.

In another note Sens claimed to be an aggressive player, and he was, until he lynched Elli, then he dropped back. this may in part be due to inactivity. Still, Sens' second investigation was on the person who he said he found least suspicious, TNM. That is the Exact Opposite of what he did before. What I think is that Sens was so sure of himself, and of Elli, that he FC'd cop to ensure that he got Elli, and to ensure that this newbie game wasn't cop led around by scum. Still, I don't believe that he was bussing Elli that hard, so I think that Zorb is VT.

In my mind Sens hoped he would be able to draw a dead bead on someone else Before we got down to LyLo, or at least relieve some suspicions.


One last thing, Sens was the last to talk after Elli's FC, it could have been inactivity, but it also could have been that he was waiting to see if a real cop would CC
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Now, this goes to the setup. The way I see it there are four options:
Option 1: Both RCs are real, both are completely innocent, Scum roleblocker didn't block the cop.
Option 2: Zorb is faking it, which means that Jee is really a doctor and there is no roleblocker.
Option 3: both are faking it, and Jee is scum for sure. Jee decided not to kill anyone last night to use his doctor claim, and Sens/Zorb just figured TNM was townie so claimed that as the result. Jee is a roleblocker, but there are no roles to block.
Option 4:Only Jee is faking it. This seems a weak ploy because then Zorb could figure it out pretty quickly, if Zorb dies tonight then I definitely believe this.



Now, I put my beliefs on those two down and the reasons why.

TNM: You're townie. If Zorb's cop, definite. If Zorbs Scum definite. If Zorb FC'd cop and still cleared you, well I trust that judgment enough to be fine with it.

Nacho: I think you're townie because of the no death, and because I believe that Jee is in fact doctor. If jee is scum though then you still can't be scum. I don't see a reason for Jee to FC unless he is scum. I don't see a reason for Mafia not to kill.

Deer: In my mind that pretty much leaves you. There is evidence, I can go and find it later, but there is evidence on anyone. You seem the most likely choice right now.

Pul: I know it's not me. My only defense is that the main attack is for the chance that no mafia action was submitted. Mr. Finch was there right before the night started and right after it ended. (mainly due to prods, but still) he paid attention to prods, and I don't think he would have missed a NK if he was scum. no other real accusations have been made against my assumed role, so I'm going to leave defense at that.

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I deleted the quotes in this section due to the fact that I don't like this argument anymore. Still, I want to show you the post I worked on so...

Addition:
I have looked up both Sens and Zorb. For Sens I have only found protown games, and never a cop. HE seemed more laid back, more let the players learn. He claimed that as an IC he shouldn't use his weight, and people had to learn through playing, not through constantly following him. While he was still forceful with his reads, he wasn't as focused on specific targets. This really through me off.

I read him as so pro-town, but these past games make it seem like he was much more wary when he was actually pro-town. To be fair though he came out of the wood work more when he had a role (doctor) than when he was VT.

I looked Up a few games with Zorb. This quote is when he was pro town:


Very laid back, very let's think about this

While this one was from when he was Scum:


Much more forceful, much more like how he approached us with his no Lynch post.

This meta together makes me more suspicious of Sens/Zorb, but I'm still not sure, and still leaning towards Deer, honestly.

__________________________________________________________

That was my long post, it's not epic, but still it is long.
Zorb at the start of this day you set a much more easy pace, and from Sens posts he really could have just been a cop following a lead.

Also, option 4 from above is obviously false, and the way Zorb is speaking leads me to fully believe that both are true claims.

I guess that means my suspicions on Jee were unfounded as well.

My personal feeling reading through it, and even now, is that Deer is the scum. I'd like to go over the whole thread again and look at each individual separately, but I don't have time before my drive. I should be back on Sunday or Monday night. Maybe I'll print some of this out and study it a bit.

[Pulindar]

Hi all, I'm sorta getting situated over here still, but I am in LA, and actully got here about 6 hours ago. I made great time which is the only reason I have time to come on tonight at all.
I am tired though, so I'll keep this short.

This was Mr.Finch's first post after the night where there was no roleblock, Day 3. And this was even before SF posted anything about having an investigation.

Does this stick out to anyone?

I would say that he's wrong Jee. After all,

If either of the first two setups are in play, and the situation occurs where the Goon is lynched first, the Roleblocker will still be able to submit both night kills and roleblocks (roleblocking is a function of the Roleblocker; night kills are a function of the scum team as a whole).

That's in red at the beginning of post 2. But I suppose the roleblocker may not have known that.

@Pulindar: What did you think of your predecessor?

I think he was an inactiver person by the end, who quit because of his inactivity. Also, reading him in this game and in a previous game, I feel that he is extremely cautious. He realizes that long days

Tend

to be better for town, and does not mind holding his vote toward later if he doesn't see an explicit reason to use it. He uses his vote to actually Lynch, rather than using it as the multi-purpose weapon it is.

@Deer and Pulindar, what were your takes on totallynotmafia getting killed last night? What do you think of Nachomamma8's reaction.

I didn't expect it, but depending on the logic it makes sense. Honestly I was concerned that even though I am a future lynch possibility the scum may have wished to lynch me to keep an unexplored view out of the game. Still, it was probably the best choice because I think it answers the fewest questions. Lynching you or Jee would have at least given us that for sure, Lynching Nacho or Deer or Me would have told us one definite townie as well, breaking apart the fighting that may occur, and if the roles are accepted setting up the other two for lynching.
Nacho's reaction, a bit odd, as though he didn't want to be associtated with coming up with a reason to do it. still, I considered that when I posted as well. WIFOM, it honestly could be argued either way. Is it enough to pay more attention to him for, yes, but so is my answer.

Zorb, I'm going to admit, that while I am leaning much more towards your being cop, I am still not certain.
Could you tell me what you make of Sens investigating TNM?

I think the hammer itself wasn't a big deal, but I do think that he overreacted quite a bit. I don't like it, but I think it can be explained as nervousness or just his general personality.

I think it was his first hammer, and I think he didn't want to step on anyone's toes. From what I saw Finch didn't post much, he seemed to try to be reading and keeping more quiet, I don't think he was prepared for emotional involvment. Now, He definitely did overreact, but He considered it, and acted with what he thought was the best decision. As I said earlier, I feel that he's cautious, but I would add nervious to that as well.


I'll put in my thoughts as of Day 4 tomorrow.

[Pulindar]

Do you agree with that?

With using my vote only to Lynch? No, I don't agree with that. I feel that it should be used as the tool it is. In the position I'm in I feel that I need to use that tool cautiously though, so as not to draw suspicition on myself.

If thats not what you expected, what did you expect?

Myself to die. If I were scum, and I were not myself, I would have killed Pulindar. or Zorb. TNM would have been easy to persuade against almost anyone, he was suspitious of you Jee, Nacho, Deer, Finch, and while he felt secure in Zorb, I think he could have been persuaded to attack Zorb as well. Also, whoever TNM backed as a confirmed townie would have a higher chance of gaining suspition. He would have been a useful tool. Zorb and I on the other hand were replacements. The scum couldn't possibly know what we would do (Unless it is one of us) still, killing one of us would have been best and trying to manipulate TNM

I was conviced Mr.Finch may have been mafia, but not really sure anymore now that Pulidar took his spot. Pulidar seems to be overall town to me, but likes to point out that he is town in alot of posts. Either point out that hes town, or indirectly say something else about the roleblocked still out there. As of now, not really sure about him.

I'd probably talk the same way as either scum or town. As for the roleblocked, do you mean that I'm not sure about it? I'm not.

This please.

Jee:

I see Jee as town for the same reason that I saw TNM as town. Basically Zorb ruled him being mafia out.

Zorb:

Both Sens and Zorb have seemeed to play town to me honestly, but Sens' changed in styles from super aggresive while chasing Elli, to passive while confirming TNM really set me off.

Nacho:

Seems the second most likely to me. When he first replaced in I and turned around to vote for Elli even though Sens had no proof bothered me a bit, and his extreme focus on Zorb... still, it could just be an aggressive hunting style. You seem to be only semi focused on people, shifting completely and swiftly, why? Also, what do you think of Zorb, the entire thought and reason?

Deer:

Most suspected. probably should vote deer right now, still though... I want to hear something from him, anything substantial. I honestly can't find a good substantial argument from you Deer. I see your posts, and I understand them clearly enough, but nothing stands out as pro-town from you. You aren't too strongly scummy, but you just seem to be trying to back away from scum hunting and trying to see where we lead and then just support. Who do you suspect? Who is cleared? why? Do you have anything that makes yourself seem clear?

Pulindar:

as for myself. hmm. My argument for not voting for me based on Finch is that a big part of his lurking was do to his quiting. As for my own posts, to find something you need to risk something.

[Pulindar]

Alright, I've been prodded so I guess I'll come in and say something. In the beginning, I didn't really find all that much Mr. Finch did to be suspicious. However, I've started to get some seriously bad vibes from Pulindar. It's mostly based on instinct, but the fact that he keeps saying how he expects himself to get lynched, or he expected himself to get NK'd doesn't look good in my eyes.

I'd like to point out that I also talked about how you and Nacho were popular lynch possiblities, and that Zorb is one to a lesser extent. I'm trying to look at this from every perspective, not just some closed off one, which you keep trying to push the group into.

@Jee You make a good point, and while Deer has been my prime suspect since I took over for Finch, I'm just not sure enough to hammer yet and put us into LyLo. Let me look through the game again and see. I guess I'm using my vote like the finch before me did Oh well. As for me my only completed game so far was as scum as well.

Also, if you do check my other game, while people later told me it was the bad play I won as scum by taking out the random choice. Randomness, even if the sure thing is against you, is bad. I hate gambling. I'd rather loose straight out than gamble on what the next person will see.

Pulindar - L2; Deer
Deer - L1; Jee, Nacho

[Pulindar]

I'll leave you the honors Zorb *bows*


As for your reasons, reading them and rereading through I definitely see them, but I wasn't overtly using them in my mind. Honestly everyone else just seems to be playing a town game to me, I'm trying to find stuff but having a difficult time. I point out all the little things I see, but nothings been strong enough to hold my full focus just yet.

[Pulindar]

... I really thought we had it with Deer...

[Pulindar]

Honestly I don't have a top suspect, Deer was my top suspect from the beginning, and I'm sort of a bit stumpped as of this moment.

I guess I'll read through the thread again, look up my reasons for both of you again, and see what I think. I won't be able to do it until tomorrow though as I have two job interviews today. RL takes precidence.

[Pulindar]

Sorry for not posting yesterday, power was out that morning, and I had an all day job interview later that day. Today I'm working but should be ok. to read though and post. I'm also reading through another game I'm subbing in on so please bare with me. Sorry again.

[Pulindar]

I find myself going back to my old thoughts which lean toward Zorb. I never really believed Sens' claim, I also disliked the way that Sens kept using his IC status to try to take blaim off of him. I could definitely see him bussing Elli that strongly.

He played a super aggressive game until Elli Died, and then he claimed to have investigated TNM. I never understood that decision, and I know Zorb can't explain it, but if he was playing his aggressive game he should have went after Nacho. Nacho was Sens' second thought. After all Sens even said that you would argue against the lynch on Elli.

Beyond that I think Zorb has been playing a forceful game. The best way to describe it is that he seems to have been trying to rule over what could possibly be scum tells. He seems to be trying to take absolute control over who is allowed to be suspected, and by taking control slowly knocking himself off of the possible suspect list. I understand that he's an IC and I'm only a newbie, but still it bother's me the way he's doing it. I don't think anyone but scum can be that certain about things. I could be wrong, but that's how I'm starting to look at it.

As I said from the beginning I really didn't think Sens was cop. I did think that Sens was town though, no matter how contridictory that seems. I said as much in one of my first posts. Now though I don't like that idea as much. At the time, as I stated I thought that the likeliest was Deer, and next Nacho.

I still feel that deer was the most likely when he was lynched, but ... I was wrong then ...

As for Nacho, Well neither of his predicessors count. So, I guess it's all on what I think of him. Like I said before I found him scummier than Zorb, now not so sure. I think his switch from backing Elli to instantly attacking Elli was a bit quick, but who knows. I wasn't the biggest fan of him attacking an uncounter claimed PR, but still I did see his reasoning obviously.

(reminds me Sens waited for everyone else to respond before counter claiming Elli.)

But honestly that's all I can think of on nacho. So, those are my current thoughts.

[Pulindar]

I've only completed one game so far, but you can check out my current status on my wiki page. I try to keep it updated.

[Pulindar]

Honestly no. I know you're a good player and that you'll be able to address the issues quite well. I can't think of any actual questions, though I would love to hear your opinion on both of us. As of this moment while I am leaning towards you I refuse to vote.

If any questions do come up I will ask them.

My big issue is still before you came in. I just can't understand the move to not roleblock you. I can't see it as reasonable. And Nacho is not a bad player, so I can't see him making that mistake.

Reading it again I still see you as constantly noting which moves should be considered scummy. You do it by saying what you feel is logical, and it always makes sense after you say it. Still though you've been deciding for the group when a vote seemed ok. The first day by saying that voting anything but nolynch would be a scum move. And then again with Deer. That's where I see your forceful ness. Honestly I agree with both of those decisions, it just seemed that you were so sure. That's what I was trying to say.

As for Nacho Either he did the best possible move by not roleblocking, or the worst possible move. I would have figured, as I read through, that Sens was going to focus next on nach and give a scum read. He thought Nacho was the next scummiest, why not investigate him? It could have been considered a great move to mess with the cop, but would have proven a huge problem if he had actually been investigated Nacho would have lost.
Sens play changed too much after Elli was dead.

[Pulindar]

Dangit, now I need to read through again and take your observations into account. I'll do that in the morning.

Thanks for such a thorough response.

[Pulindar]

Vote: Zorblag

I see it this way, you both suspect each other which means that it comes down to me probably. I'm not exactly happy about that, but I suppose it's not the worst thing. I reread through the section with Elli, I feel that Nacho kept to his guns. Lynch one if town lynch the other and get to a town 2, scum 1 LyLo.

Now, Nacho as scum would not have forgotten to block Sens, as he was Sens' next suspect.

You've played an excellent game Zorb, and I almost voted for Nacho based on your last post, but I just, I just feel your spot is the scum. Sorry.

[Pulindar]

Unvote

Let me look at it again.

Dangit this is getting to be alot of work hehe. Oh well. Glad to have an intense game where I'm on the other side.

I don't think you would buss a partner like that, Sens on the other hand ... yeah I think he'd be willing to.

as for killing TNM ... I dunno. let me read through again.

[Pulindar]

The second of the two honestly.

Generally speaking it seems that each decision was bad for both of you.

Hi Zorblag and Pulindar, welcome to the game, I look forward to your fresh opinions as a few of us have been tunnelling a fair bit recently, myself included.

My question for jee was just a test to see if he would bandwagon again, even after pretty much clearing Nacho as town, which would have been the final nail in the coffin so I'm happy to see that he didn't do that and in fact his answer is pretty much the same reason that I'm leaning towards Nacho being town. Nacho is online pretty much every day so I doubt he would have missed the night actions (although this thinking could be a fallacy) and it would be too much of a risk for him not to block SensFan especially after SF's post directed towards him just before the lynch on Ellie.

So yeah, I'm happy with the no lynch...at least it might remove some misplaced suspicion. The only thing that was stopping me no lynching right away was that I disagree with Zorblag in one sense because he or Pulindar could be shot without us even getting their opinions on who is scum but oh well it's too late now, at least this game will get moving again I suppose.

I like this quote because it’s something I was thinking at the time. Before I focused on the last paragraph, this time I want to focus on the second. Neither action by Nacho or by Sens at that moment was a good action.

Sens, if he was goon ,should have not claimed to have investigated TNM.

But Nacho, another experienced player, should have blocked Sens. Blocking Sens seems like the more obvious choice.


As you see, it was a bad decision either way, but worse for Nacho. If Nacho had not blocked Sens, and had been investigated, then it would have been at most two lynches before the game was over. On the other hand, by clearing TNM Sens very nearly gained a perminent ally.

Still as you said killing TNM would have been bad for you, but TNM was beginning to have his doubts in your spot, realizing that clearing someone did not automatically mean that you were town, because you could have also known his position if you were scum.

Honestly I don't understand why either of you killed Jee or TNM. killing one by the end was good for sure, but you should have kept one alive. You're both much better at arguing than I am, and could probably either of you convince them I was scum.



So, yeah I see what you're saying about Nacho, and about the decisions, but I felt that your spot seemed scummier with it all. I'm trying to reread and get a more certain position, either way, but it's a difficult case. When I first read through I did not think Sens was cop, I thought he was just a VT who wanted his hunch heard and saw an opening. now, I'm not so sure.

[Pulindar]

well, your harping on it is slowly convincing me. Restating things in different ways offers other's the easiest route thier mind can take to understand what you are saying. Based just on your argument I would vote Nacho right now, but I want to look again, to take a minute. Still, right now I'm turned aruond. I wonder what he would say if he were here? what argument would he make?

I see what you mean by the setup, but it seems a risky play. Still, that quote definitely does make it more suspicious.



If you were in Sens' place, who would you have investigated?

Can you think of a reason to have investigated Nacho?

[Pulindar]

sorry guys, I had a rough weekend. I'm about to read through, give me a minute.

[Pulindar]

First thing, about me being cleared: I honestly felt (and I think I said it) that you both were focusing on each other. I felt that you both "cleared me" and I feel that no matter which way I vote that person will be lynched. That's what i think right now, and what I thought when I voted.


When I voted for Zorb it was primarily due to the fact that when I reread the points he pointed out to me I thought his slot seemed scummier. I unvoted due to nervousness.


As for you saying Zorb cleared me, as I said I feel you both played a part in that (though I should reread today) but I also felt that zorb's clearing certain actions since he joined the game, was a scummy thing of him to do. (which I explained in an earlier post) It's also something I think Sens did a bit


And finally, as for my hanging back. I'm not a braggart, I understand when someone is so obviously better than me that I should listen rather than speak. You're both in a different league than me. You're in Battle Mage's league and he is so awesome I can't even compare.

At the moment I'm leaning towards Zorb, Again. Honestly I don't like feeling alike a game is riding entirely on my vote.

[Pulindar]

I'm not scum

[Pulindar]

Yeah, I realize the situation. I'm going to have to spend tomorrow rereading through AGAIN.

I know you two can see it clearly (at least now) but I just can't. I was quite serious when I said I'm not in your guy's league.

Actually, as I type this I'm also trying to consider what I should write to this girl I'm having a second date with tomorrow, I can't tell you which responce I'm more nervous about giving. Proper wording can be difficult.

Anyway, I guess there's no point in stalling, I'll reread and make my decision tomorrow. Thank you both for such a great game and such a great learning experience. I know I preformed poorly, I apologize for that.

[Pulindar]

Alright, I'll take your guys' advise, and take my time with this. I read through the game yesterday before Nacho's post, and still couldn't decide. Today I think I'm going to focus on who I think is more town rather than try to discover who is scummier. It's just a different way of looking at the same stuff, but it may help.

And I will take a look at NG871

[Pulindar]

I'll make sure not to miss it.

[Pulindar]

I'll wait for it then

[Pulindar]

My internet went out there for a few hours

As Vel never posted I think I still have time to vote? no?

[Pulindar]

I don't know if this will count, and I'm not sure who is lying right now, but

Vote Zorb

You both played a great game, and I wouldn't have suspected either of you, but honestly Sens play was so scummy that I just can't get over Zorb's spot.

Again, I don't know if this will ocunt but I'll try anyway. Sorry

[Pulindar]

I guess we'll see what Vel says. This was a long but interesting game. I wish I knew you both better and had played more before being put in this position.

I don't like lying as scum, but I don't like the confusion as town. I think I'd like to be a third party position in future games, if I can get into one with third party positions.

[Pulindar]

Sorry Zorb, both Nacho and you played great games, and I honestly didn't see good cases against either of you, but Sens play just kept bothering me. I hate bringing his play against you, but it was just so... erratic.

and he seemed to take advantage of alot. I also didn't like how he used his IC status to force people to stop considering things, and to make other arguments. Anyway, my first newbie game is officially finished.

[Pulindar]

Ah well, I don't feel so bad even though we did lose, and even though that loss was my fault, I still am glad I chose correctly, if a bit late.

[Pulindar]

Well thanks for the advise, and from now on I will be more sure of myself. This was the first game I completed as town, and I really was nervous at the position I was in

Next time I think I'll go for my gut more.