Newbie #950 (Game Over!)

[I Am Innocent]

Hey all. This is gonna be my first game on these forums, hope it goes well. That's about all I got to say for now.

You joined 9 months ago and this is your first game?

Backstory please.

[I Am Innocent]

Hello .. This is my first game ever, so completely wet behind the ears and have nfi but very keen to learn what it's all about.

Cheers.

What is nfi?

[I Am Innocent]

Oh, and hello all, I am your other SE. If you have any direct questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Totally agree with Deer that a no lynch is bad.

One request I have that sometimes gets lost on newbie players....keep track of votes and do not hammer (be the final vote on) a player without giving them a chance to claim.

It is very bad to lynch one of your own power roles, Cop/Doctor. Even though they may just be offed at night, getting a 2nd chance at scum during the day is worth the claim.

You'll hear turns like L-1, L-2, etc. Each day you need a certain number of votes to lynch somebody. Day 1 (D1) it is 5. So if somebody has 2 votes, we say that they are at L-3 (3 votes away from being lynched). At L-1, it is the time to claim, esp if somebody is ready to hammer (please declare your intention to hammer before actually doing so).

That's it. Oh and except that I noticed Dr Glunk is at L-3 already. Since I am partial to the ladies I'll set up a 2nd for someone else:

vote: _j west

[I Am Innocent]

vote i am innocent

random vote is random.

Are you saying your vote is random, or chastising me for the lack of randomness in my vote?

[I Am Innocent]

Hello .. This is my first game ever, so completely wet behind the ears and have nfi but very keen to learn what it's all about.

Cheers.

What is nfi?

No friggin' idea?

[I Am Innocent]

.
.
.
2. What we do now is usually randomly vote for someone based off their name, avatar, whatever you want, like Amish just did. This is called the RVS stage.

It helps get discussion started

. Random voting is not a scumtell.
.
.
.

True, early bandwagons usually aren't good.

I think early bandwagons based solely on RVS votes (like this one) aren't good

. If there's a legitimate case against someone, then sure, I don't mind them.

@ Deer, this seems like a contradiction. You say we need to get discussion started, but you think early bandwagons aren't good. If we all voted for a different person, how is that helping discussion to get started?

[I Am Innocent]

.
.
.
2. What we do now is usually randomly vote for someone based off their name, avatar, whatever you want, like Amish just did. This is called the RVS stage.

It helps get discussion started

. Random voting is not a scumtell.
.
.
.

True, early bandwagons usually aren't good.

I think early bandwagons based solely on RVS votes (like this one) aren't good

. If there's a legitimate case against someone, then sure, I don't mind them.

@ Deer, this seems like a contradiction. You say we need to get discussion started, but you think early bandwagons aren't good. If we all voted for a different person, how is that helping discussion to get started?

[I Am Innocent]

.
.
.
2. What we do now is usually randomly vote for someone based off their name, avatar, whatever you want, like Amish just did. This is called the RVS stage.

It helps get discussion started

. Random voting is not a scumtell.
.
.
.

True, early bandwagons usually aren't good.

I think early bandwagons based solely on RVS votes (like this one) aren't good

. If there's a legitimate case against someone, then sure, I don't mind them.

@ Deer, this seems like a contradiction. You say we need to get discussion started, but you think early bandwagons aren't good. If we all voted for a different person, how is that helping discussion to get started?

[I Am Innocent]

Mod, please delete the two duplicates and this post.

[I Am Innocent]

I don't like seeing a player at L-2 on page 1, so my vote now goes on Lord Baltheir for putting _j west at L-2, while not as dangerous as L-1, it is still too early for that.

Its not that early bandwagons are bad, just have to be careful about how quickly they move. I have seen someone go from L-4 to lynched in less than an hour.

In a small game like this, yes a 3 person bandwagon based on RVS is bad. But this isn't getting us anywhere.

@ fuzzy, do you see L-2 being more dangerous on Page 1 during RVS, or later in the day? Were you honestly fearful that a j west lynch was going to happen soon?

[I Am Innocent]

To see various reactions based on votes, etc. And just because I don't like early RVS bandwagons doesn't mean they don't happen.

By the way, I should have probably clarified this - by "aren't good" I meant that they can very easily have some scum on the wagon, and therefore need to be watched out for.

@ Deer. Who is more likely to make a reaction, someone with multiple votes, or someone who gets one vote? On the flip side, where do you think a Mafia is likely to place a RVS vote, on a wagon where it may draw attention, or say on someone who says "I hate the movie Bambi, so deer gets my vote"?

[I Am Innocent]

Let's make some discusion here. It starts getting boring.

So who do you think is scum?

I think it is too early to start asking players for top 2 lists. Esp considering 1 player only has 1 post and another 2...

Best way IMO to get discussion is look for things that look off, maybe even scummy, and start questioning them. Look for contradictions. Look for people trying to blend in or lay low. Etc. etc.

[I Am Innocent]

@ Deer. Who is more likely to make a reaction, someone with multiple votes, or someone who gets one vote? On the flip side, where do you think a Mafia is likely to place a RVS vote, on a wagon where it may draw attention, or say on someone who says "I hate the movie Bambi, so deer gets my vote"?

Reread my post and it sounds confusing. Second question was more, which of these moves is the mafia more likely to make:

1) on a wagon where it may draw attention
2) voting as follows: "I hate the movie Bambi, so deer gets my vote" (making this the first vote on deer...)

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah, I thought it was weird I was at L-2 that early too, but didn't think much of it. It would have taken a ridiculous play to lynch me from there, and caused major exposure.
So I wasn't ever worried.

So you agree with my initial questioning to Deer...

It's hard to get any ideas on scum at this stage in the game.

Which is basically the same thing I said to vezo (2nd time we agree).

If anything, and pretty much the only thing sticking out to me is I am innocent. It can be telling when people try and make a case so early on. I know it was only the contradiction you were pointing out(in relation to Deer), but still.

I'll point out anything that looks suspicious. Esp early on when there is a lack of discussion going on. Who appreciates the lack of discussion....the mafia. Who is trying to promote discussion. Me.

Promote discussion also includes 1) questioning fuzzy about his L-2 RVS paranoia and 2) asking the other newbie about this being his first game when he signed up back in August 2009.

Eventually people will come under suspicion and discussion will take off. Don't make a similar mistake that my IC made in my first game (908, it was my only vote I received that game) when he suspected me cause I was the only one talking (like I told him, of course I'll look suspicious if I'm the only one saying anything!).

ANd also this post

Look for people trying to blend in or lay low. Etc. etc.

sat funny with me too. Sure, it's a noob game, and this could be viewed as good general advice. Or it may be a smoke screen designed to keep your mind off of the people, or in this case the person, being more active. Not just blending in or laying low.

Well you could be Mafia trying to set up a talkative townie with some experience (SE), but my gut tells me that you aren't. I like the way you are thinking here, though in this case you are wrong.

[I Am Innocent]

He was at L-2 because three people had votes on him: fuzzylightning, I Am Innocent, and Lord Baltheir. It was during the RVS so maybe the votes were actually just random.

Mine was semi random in the sense I like to vote for someone with a vote already. I saw you had 2 votes, and thought I put someone else at 2 votes as well. It was between j west or Deer at that point, I went with the newbie to see if I could get a newbie slip up.

I obv disagree with the others that early bandwagons are not good. On the flip side, I think one RVS vote on each player would be much more worthless.

Random voting can suck if everyones random votes end up being on the same person, so fuzzylightning retracted vote to prevent that from happening.

fuzzy retracted his vote after all nine players had made their RVS vote. So it wasn't like 2 newbies would jump on with add'l random votes.

I think the retracted vote was within reason, but there may have been a little over drama in that whole episode for my liking...

[I Am Innocent]

@ Charlou: When was the last time you changed your profile and why?

[I Am Innocent]

I've added my avatar, and then I made my gender visible.

Why do you ask?

Just curious. I saw you had your avatar before I made my first post in the game. What prompted the gender visibility change?

[I Am Innocent]

Why does any of this matter?

Can I at least wait to get an answer to my question before I elaborate?

Everyone who hasn't commented on it, do you think Charlou's self-voting is scummy?

It doesn't make me feel very warm and fuzzy inside that is for sure. But I don't think we lynch purely based on that.

[I Am Innocent]

I Am Innocent, I added my gender so you all would know whether to refer to me as 'she' or 'he', etc. I realised the usefulness of that when I saw the gender icons on the other players profiles.

Still curious why this is relevant?

That's it. Oh and except that I noticed Dr Glunk is at L-3 already. Since I am partial to the ladies I'll set up a 2nd for someone else:

vote: _j west

When I wrote this on page 1, I noticed Dr Glunk was the only player listed as a female. So when I saw you changed your profile to list your gender, I surely hoped you didn't do it for sake of my joke above...

Anyhow, I thought I'd see if I could catch you in a lie. No point for town to lie to each other, so that is often the best way to catch scum.

Re my self vote, it was facetious - this is a game, after all. I have no idea who to vote for atm, but I can tell you that if I were 'scum' I'd hardly make it so obvious.

WIFOM argument, so that doesn't work. I think it would have been better to say that you were trying to drum up discussion in an otherwise quiet start to the game. That is what I initially thought you were doing...

@ Charlou, do you think Deer is tunnelvisioning on vezo? And do you believe fuzzylightning was really "fearful that it might happen" (It referring to "a j west lynch was going to happen soon")?

[I Am Innocent]

I are back.

...

...

That is all.

2 day, 23 hours, 58 minutes between posts. 2 minutes short of earning an early prod. And this is all you have to add?

[I Am Innocent]

...You'll hear turns like L-1, L-2, etc. Each day you need a certain number of votes to lynch somebody. Day 1 (D1) it is 5. So if somebody has 2 votes, we say that they are at L-3 (3 votes away from being lynched). At L-1, it is the time to claim, esp if somebody is ready to hammer (please declare your intention to hammer before actually doing so)...

Unvote _j west

I don't like seeing a player at L-2 on page 1, so my vote now goes on Lord Baltheir for putting _j west at L-2, while not as dangerous as L-1, it is still too early for that.

Vote: Lord Baltheir

Uh, like I said, new to these forums kinda, what does L-2 and L-1 mean? Lynch 1 and 2?

Are you even paying attention to this thread?

I are back.

...

...

That is all.

2 day, 23 hours, 58 minutes between posts. 2 minutes short of earning an early prod. And this is all you have to add?

unvote: _j west
vote: Lord Baltheir

[I Am Innocent]

@i am innocent: Why are you voting for lord baltheir?????? It looks like your trying to start a new waggon but why him? He only posted garbage until now.

Before I answer, I want to introduce a term that I don't think has been used in the game so far but is very helpful as we start to get pages and pages into this game.

The term is ISO.

ISO/iso is basically doing an isolation of one player's posts. The way you do that is by going to the bottom of the thread, and hit the drop down next to "All Users" and select the person you want to focus on.

Do a ISO on Lord Baltheir and you will see zero contribution to this game. If he is one of the mafia, by letting him lay low, we make things that much harder for ourselves. I intend not to let him or anyone lay low. The way we catch scum is by having people leave trails or make mistakes. If they aren't posting, trails aren't being made and mistakes aren't happening...

[I Am Innocent]

I have some stuff going on right now, so haven't had much time to do anything besides post every couple of days so I don't get kicked. Should be done tomorrow though, then I'll start actually playing.

Well you posted yesterday, so the fact you are responding to my pressure vote less than 2 hours after I made it sure does feel like you are lurking. I appreciate you doing your best not to get kicked out as I think replacement players really disrupt the game, but if you knew you were busy, why didn't you state that up front?

[I Am Innocent]

Relating to the "contradiction," Charlou, did you understand this post:

I don't like wagons based solely on RVS votes, but I'm fine with wagons based on legitimate things

Also,

unvote, vote: Lord Baltheir

for active lurking. If you don't know what that is, newbs, it's what he's doing right now - checking in saying "I'm here," avoiding prods so he doesn't get replaced, but not making an effort to contribute to the game.

At least Charlou has attempted to defend herself - right now I'm seeing newbtells in her early postings more than anything. She just needs to scumhunt.

I have some stuff going on right now, so haven't had much time to do anything besides post every couple of days so I don't get kicked. Should be done tomorrow though, then I'll start actually playing.

Yeah, that was your excuse, but since that post you posted the one below (underline added for emphasis):

I check all the forums and stuff I'm on in the morning before I head to work, and I normally don't post anything unless someone said anything specifically pertaining to me, as you did.

But I'm free for the rest of the week now, so expect to be participating more actively

.

unvote

Yawn, 3AM here, heading to bed, I'll see y'all in the morning

I count over 5.5 hours between these posts, yet still no scumhunting, no new vote, etc.

You are lurking. I would really like you to tell me who you think are the two most scummy people in your eyes right now.

@ fuzzy, Dr Glunk, j west, I think more participation is needed from you 3 as well.

@ Deer, I know it's early, but have you seen any change in Dr Glunk's game play from your previous game with her?

[I Am Innocent]

@I am Innocent

You've been putting the spotlight on me from the get go, turning everyone's attention to me, I personally find that a bit scum-like. And Charlou also seems scummy for doing that semi-roleclaim awhile back.

Funny, someone else came after me for what they considered an early case too:

...If anything, and pretty much the only thing sticking out to me is I am innocent. It can be telling when people try and make a case so early on. I know it was only the contradiction you were pointing out(in relation to Deer), but still...

Not sure how I could have turned everyone's attention to you from the get go, and Deer at the same time...

Do you think what I am doing could be considered scum hunting? If so, do you still think I am likely one of the two scum?

What other scummy things have you picked up on Lord B? Also, why no vote yet?

@vezo - Correct, lurking does not necessarily = scummy, but at the same time, laying low allows scum to hide better. As Lord B continues to talk tho, he seems to be more scummy by the moment to me. His OMGUS for me is just another add in to all the contradictions he has made.

[I Am Innocent]

I agree with IAI but Lord B doesn't strike me that scumy but charlou made the exact same mistakes i did the first time i was scum so I'll still keep my vote there.

@vezo, can you list your case/provide a list of the exact same mistakes you are referring to?

[I Am Innocent]

Unofficial Vote Count (THIS COULD BE WRONG!!!)

Charlou 3
Lord Baltheir 3
vezo 1

no vote 2 (Amish, Dr Glunk)

Usually this is where I like to pressure people to make a stand by voting. But since we have to people at L-2, I would rather Amish & Dr Glunk just tell us where they want to vote.

I will reiterate something I said on page 1, I hate unnecessary role claims D1. The last game I joined (still in play), had the Doctor exposed on D1 along with 2 other Vanilla Townies. That is just ridiculous. L-1/role claim should not happen unless we as a group are ready to move forward with a lynch. The more people that claim, the more of a chance we have of exposing a power role, if we have one/two...

[getting off my soapbox]

@ Amish & Dr Glunk, where are you leaning towards your votes?

@ Deer, I don't think you answered my earlier question. Is Dr Glunk playing any differently than last game? She seems to be laying very low, her only vote so far has been a RVS vote for you...

[I Am Innocent]

got an avatar. only one i could find.
And for the last post the IC and SE hopefully will understand.

Oh I understood it, but my fear is that a scum probably understood it too. That post should have never been made. Now we need to figure out what the next steps are. I have some ideas, but first I'd like to hear fuzzy's thoughts on this.

[I Am Innocent]

I haven't seen that many substantial tells from LB, other than the lurking, and I don't hate the increased activity from him.

Can you tell me what you have gotten from the increased activity from LB? Basically he attacked the easiest target to this point, Charlou, and OMGUS me as a 2nd suspect. (But that isn't a substantial tell, I see.) I've seen nothing else. Please let me know if I am missing something, seriously.

As it stands, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to drop the hammer on Vezo or Charlou.

Yeah this statement bothered me too.

I don't think we are going to get any more out of LB right now, and though he may still end up being the best play D1, I'm going to follow Deer and see where this goes.

unvote: Lord Baltheir
vote: Amish_Charney

[I Am Innocent]

The participation early in this game has been exceptional, I don't want that to die down with fuzzy being busy until Monday.

I'll propose my suggestion which should keep the discussion moving forward for the short term:

IAI Suggestion: vezo obv hinted that he was the cop. Deer saw it, I saw it, a couple of others mentioned this soft claim. The thing to note is that the scum at this point would have no knowledge if a cop exists or not.

I think we need to verify the soft claim by vezo for the following reasons 1) if he is scum and trying to lure out the real cop, we could have a counter claim (CC) made by the real cop and trade the cop for one scum. This is a good move IMO as we would enter D2 up 6-1 (unless a Doctor protection exists and it goes through, then 7-1) 2) if he is the cop, we may have a doctor and the doctor should be aware who to protect at night.

Like I said earlier, the scum would not know if a cop exist or not, so if vezo claims cop and there is no CC, vezo is likely truely a cop, or else one of the riskiest scum D1 I have seen.

My suggestion, vezo truely confirms if he is the cop or not at this point.

This hinting needs to disappear IMO.

I think a few more players should chime in at this point on whether they agree or not. If not, please explain why.

Vezo, do not confirm until others have had a chance to chime in.

My suggestion could be faulty for all we know...

If there is a real cop out there not named vezo, DO NOT CC until vezo has clearly claimed cop.

[I Am Innocent]

Speaking of participation, _j west needs to be prodded. I really hope he doesn't bail, as few posts as he made, they seem to hint of a solid player.

Dr Glunk is not quite at the point of prodding, but she is another one that may need to be prodded by the end of the day.

For some of the newer players, 3 weeks can seem like a long time, but it is in the town's best interest not to lynch until we have had contributions from all 9 players.

For instance, pretend Dr Glunk and _j west were the scum team (notice neither have received a vote yet), and we lynched early, we would likely be down 2 townies going into D2 with no scum trails to find...

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP - when I said they did not receive a vote, I meant they haven't received a non RVS vote (I essentially leave out the first 9 votes from most of my analysis...). j_west in fact received 3 RVS votes & Dr Glunk 2 RVS votes.

[I Am Innocent]

So do you want me to claim?
Or do you want me to wait.

I would like you to wait until a few others chime in.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm a newbie- not balls-shrivellingly stupid.

I say if he gets one more vote he should claim. Deer, your last possibility seems WIFOM-ey, but I agree that we've been winking and nudging so much at vezo's role that there's no tangible benefit to him coming out. This conversation on its own should be enough to make anybody inclined to counterclaim do so, IMO.

I don't like a counterclaim without an official claim first. I think we are all sure he is what we think he is, but say a real cop comes out and vezo then says what I saw in my first game "I am really Vanilla Townie and was trying to draw the Mafia's attention Night X".

Yes a townie did this (as a doctor, not a cop) and almost cost us the game (908 for those interested in a fun read).

If we are going to ask for a counterclaim, I first want vezo to claim with the understanding that townies should not lie to other townies.

[I Am Innocent]

We should lynch charlou to see if shes scum.

I can see about the other guys cause I see there are no godfathers in newbies

. Vote charlou and

ill take care of baltheir

Hinting at being Cop.

Oh, and you know wiki has definitions to godfathers and such, right?

*facepalm*

Deer obv picked up on it.

Vote charlou and ill take care of baltheir

mmmHmmm ...

Charlou may have picked up on it.

got an avatar. only one i could find.
And for the last post the IC and SE hopefully will understand.

"In case you missed my last post, check it out again."

got an avatar. only one i could find.
And for the last post the IC and SE hopefully will understand.

Oh I understood it, but my fear is that a scum probably understood it too. That post should have never been made. Now we need to figure out what the next steps are. I have some ideas, but first I'd like to hear fuzzy's thoughts on this.

My fears. By the way, you outted yourself, not me. I am trying for damage control here.

vote- Vezopiraka

for making the king of all unnecessary softclaims.

Amish obv picked up on your claim.

Beat me to it, I was also gonna say pretty much the only evidence of me being scum is my inactivity, and that's not much compared against Charlou's repeated softclaims, and now Vezo's.

Lord B noticed your softclaim.

****************

At least 4 people picked up on your claim. Right now you have named Amish, Lord B, and myself as possible scum suspects, all of which noticed your claim.

If you are the cop, don't you want to make sure if there is a doctor, that you are protected?

****************

If anyone wants to make a Cop Counter Claim, now is the time to do it.

I am not the Cop by the way.

[I Am Innocent]

We got 2 replacements on the way (for Dr Glunk/j west), along with a 3rd player who has been very distant (fuzzy).

Now is not the time to lynch for multiple reasons. I find Lord B as scummy as the next person. I expressed twice in this game the importance of keeping as many players roles quiet as possible. But we have vezo who basically volunteered his role, and now Lord B admitting to trying to out another's role (with no intention of lynching).

I think Lord B should not be lynched at this time or even at L-1. He still may be the best vote, and if the deadline was tomorrow that is who I would push for.

Let's give the 2 replacements a chance to post and fuzzy a chance to come back Monday and chime in.

I'm traveling tomorrow afternoon until Monday night. Count me as V/LA for that time, tho I may have internet access at the place I am staying...

[I Am Innocent]

Okay, nevermind then...

[I Am Innocent]

But, IAI didn't know the hammer had been dropped - he could have made an attempt to swing the wagon back over to Amish (which was probably possible) or otherwise try and save LB for the time being. There's definite buddying there.

That's true, I didn't really think about that possibility. But at the same time, like he said, there were two replacements coming in, and you guys had time before the deadline to let us catch up and give our thoughts (of course, I would've just voted LB anyway, but that's not the point). In his position, I probably would've said the same thing.

Welcome Skill, I like your early participation so far.

I am back from V/LA, actually around midnight last night. I did a quick read through, but was too tired to post.

@ Deer, as soon as I hit submit and saw Lord B self sacrifice (the same minute as my post!!!), I told my wife that everyone is going to gun for me. Skill is right on with his analysis, and the reason I think he sees my innocence is he read the whole thread at once. I'll post more on it when I get a chance, but I was the one who went hard core after Lord B before anyone else. Trust me on this, if I was scum, I wouldn't bus my teammate hard when no one else was really paying attention to him, only to try to save him at L-1 after some crucial mistakes that were almost guaranteed to make him the D1 lynch (and lose all cred from bussing him). I was merely suggesting holding off on the lynch so we could gather intel on the new players and fuzzy, who continues to be MIA (wasn't he back yesterday?)

During the night I was fully convinced that Amish was Lord B's scum teammate. I will have to reread at some point to see if there was any slips on who his teammate could be...

[I Am Innocent]

Unvote _j west

I don't like seeing a player at L-2 on page 1, so my vote now goes on Lord Baltheir for putting _j west at L-2, while not as dangerous as L-1, it is still too early for that.

Vote: Lord Baltheir

Lord B said a random generator picked j west. That put him at 3 votes (L-2), and fuzzy with the early attack on Lord B.

Post 29 – Deer agrees
Post 33 – Fuzzy reiterates concern with Lord B’s RVS vote
Post 34 – Deer clarifies his concern with the vote
Post 35 – Fuzzy reiterates concern again

No mention of Lord B again until Post 92, he has been completely under the radar to this point:

I are back.

...

...

That is all.

2 day, 23 hours, 58 minutes between posts. 2 minutes short of earning an early prod. And this is all you have to add?

Why would a scum teammate put attention on his partner like this? Esp if he is not getting any attention either…

Post 97, after I iso’d Lord B, I go on the attack. Still no other mention of him by anybody:

...You'll hear turns like L-1, L-2, etc. Each day you need a certain number of votes to lynch somebody. Day 1 (D1) it is 5. So if somebody has 2 votes, we say that they are at L-3 (3 votes away from being lynched). At L-1, it is the time to claim, esp if somebody is ready to hammer (please declare your intention to hammer before actually doing so)...

Unvote _j west

I don't like seeing a player at L-2 on page 1, so my vote now goes on Lord Baltheir for putting _j west at L-2, while not as dangerous as L-1, it is still too early for that.

Vote: Lord Baltheir

Uh, like I said, new to these forums kinda, what does L-2 and L-1 mean? Lynch 1 and 2?

Are you even paying attention to this thread?

I are back.

...

...

That is all.

2 day, 23 hours, 58 minutes between posts. 2 minutes short of earning an early prod. And this is all you have to add?

unvote: _j west
vote: Lord Baltheir

Vezo questions my vote in the very next post:

@i am innocent: Why are you voting for lord baltheir?????? It looks like your trying to start a new waggon but why him? He only posted garbage until now.

My response to vezo.

@i am innocent: Why are you voting for lord baltheir?????? It looks like your trying to start a new waggon but why him? He only posted garbage until now.

Before I answer, I want to introduce a term that I don't think has been used in the game so far but is very helpful as we start to get pages and pages into this game.

The term is ISO.

ISO/iso is basically doing an isolation of one player's posts. The way you do that is by going to the bottom of the thread, and hit the drop down next to "All Users" and select the person you want to focus on.

Do a ISO on Lord Baltheir and you will see zero contribution to this game. If he is one of the mafia, by letting him lay low, we make things that much harder for ourselves. I intend not to let him or anyone lay low. The way we catch scum is by having people leave trails or make mistakes. If they aren't posting, trails aren't being made and mistakes aren't happening...

Lord B throws out his excuse for lack of play. Doesn’t address other issues I have brought up (like asking about L-1, L-2 when I explained it earlier).

I have some stuff going on right now, so haven't had much time to do anything besides post every couple of days so I don't get kicked. Should be done tomorrow though, then I'll start actually playing.

I continue to attack him…

I have some stuff going on right now, so haven't had much time to do anything besides post every couple of days so I don't get kicked. Should be done tomorrow though, then I'll start actually playing.

Well you posted yesterday, so the fact you are responding to my pressure vote less than 2 hours after I made it sure does feel like you are lurking. I appreciate you doing your best not to get kicked out as I think replacement players really disrupt the game, but if you knew you were busy, why didn't you state that up front?

Unvote

. Finally.

Charlou's behaviour is sketching me out. It is a really big attention-grabber and I can't help but think about it. Self-voting just seems really illogical. It definitely stands out. It only really seems logical if you're trying to screw with people. The recent vote on Deer is also sketchy. Voting for someone right after they address you doesn't look good. It seems OMGUS-like.

I'm not going to vote yet because I still want to look at everyone else. Charlou is just grabbing my attention so much! Although perhaps it's more attention than a mafia member would be comfortable with? That is WIFOM, isn't it? Gahhhh

Changing subjects for a minute. This post felt scummy to me for the longest time and I could never pinpoint it. Originally I thought it was the word “Finally”, which just felt forced (“I have been waiting for this moment to unvote and it finally happened…”). Dr Glunk made one vote the whole day, her RVS vote for Deer.

Looking back at this post, she never once reflects on the arguments being brought up against Lord B…interesting.

Okay, back to Lord B who responds to my question. Watch him fall into his own trap:

I have some stuff going on right now, so haven't had much time to do anything besides post every couple of days so I don't get kicked. Should be done tomorrow though, then I'll start actually playing.

Well you posted yesterday, so the fact you are responding to my pressure vote less than 2 hours after I made it sure does feel like you are lurking. I appreciate you doing your best not to get kicked out as I think replacement players really disrupt the game, but if you knew you were busy, why didn't you state that up front?

I check all the forums and stuff I'm on in the morning before I head to work, and I normally don't post anything unless someone said anything specifically pertaining to me, as you did. But I'm free for the rest of the week now, so expect to be participating more actively.

Post 134. Unvote only.

unvote

Yawn, 3AM here, heading to bed, I'll see y'all in the morning

Finally someone agrees with my attack and adds a vote to Fuzzy’s early vote and my vote.

Relating to the "contradiction," Charlou, did you understand this post:

I don't like wagons based solely on RVS votes, but I'm fine with wagons based on legitimate things

Also,

unvote, vote: Lord Baltheir

for active lurking. If you don't know what that is, newbs, it's what he's doing right now - checking in saying "I'm here," avoiding prods so he doesn't get replaced, but not making an effort to contribute to the game.

At least Charlou has attempted to defend herself - right now I'm seeing newbtells in her early postings more than anything. She just needs to scumhunt.

Lord B’s first big mistake imo, he quotes an earlier post saying he has a lot going on, but a later post showed he was freed up now!

Relating to the "contradiction," Charlou, did you understand this post:

I don't like wagons based solely on RVS votes, but I'm fine with wagons based on legitimate things

Also,

unvote, vote: Lord Baltheir

for active lurking. If you don't know what that is, newbs, it's what he's doing right now - checking in saying "I'm here," avoiding prods so he doesn't get replaced, but not making an effort to contribute to the game.

At least Charlou has attempted to defend herself - right now I'm seeing newbtells in her early postings more than anything. She just needs to scumhunt.

I have some stuff going on right now, so haven't had much time to do anything besides post every couple of days so I don't get kicked. Should be done tomorrow though, then I'll start actually playing.

Call him on this mistake. Also notice at the end where I ask Deer about Dr Glunk’s previous play. Take this as proof that I had my concerns about her and that post that just felt scummy…

Relating to the "contradiction," Charlou, did you understand this post:

I don't like wagons based solely on RVS votes, but I'm fine with wagons based on legitimate things

Also,

unvote, vote: Lord Baltheir

for active lurking. If you don't know what that is, newbs, it's what he's doing right now - checking in saying "I'm here," avoiding prods so he doesn't get replaced, but not making an effort to contribute to the game.

At least Charlou has attempted to defend herself - right now I'm seeing newbtells in her early postings more than anything. She just needs to scumhunt.

I have some stuff going on right now, so haven't had much time to do anything besides post every couple of days so I don't get kicked. Should be done tomorrow though, then I'll start actually playing.

Yeah, that was your excuse, but since that post you posted the one below (underline added for emphasis):

I check all the forums and stuff I'm on in the morning before I head to work, and I normally don't post anything unless someone said anything specifically pertaining to me, as you did.

But I'm free for the rest of the week now, so expect to be participating more actively

.

unvote

Yawn, 3AM here, heading to bed, I'll see y'all in the morning

I count over 5.5 hours between these posts, yet still no scumhunting, no new vote, etc.

You are lurking. I would really like you to tell me who you think are the two most scummy people in your eyes right now.

@ fuzzy, Dr Glunk, j west, I think more participation is needed from you 3 as well.

@ Deer, I know it's early, but have you seen any change in Dr Glunk's game play from your previous game with her?

fuzzy finally makes an appearance and unvotes Lord B??? Did not like obviously.

I agree that I can be more active in this game and I must apologize for not holding up my end to this point. This has been a very busy week now that I am home from school and after this weekend things will hopefully die down, so I just ask that you bear with me until then.

Personally, after looking over the thread, I am not liking Lord Baltheir for reasons that have been mentioned.

Charlou isn't looking to great either. The RVS ended before you voted for yourself so a) voting for yourself, whether in jest or not, is paramount to claiming scum and is worthy of a lynching right there and b) claiming votes were random when we clearly were no longer in that stage is scummy.

@Vezo: Can you please get an avatar?

Unvote: Lord Baltheir
Vote: Charlou

as I feel Charlou is more scummy than Lord Baltheir at the moment

Charlou later adds a vote to Lord B.

Amish makes the quote about being ready to hammer vezo, at the same time buddying up to Lord B.

When Deer moves his vote, I do as well. In that post (179), I specifically say “I don't think we are going to get any more out of LB right now, and though he may still end up being the best play D1, I'm going to follow Deer and see where this goes.”

Fast forward to the post I made at the same time Lord B self sacrificed. Once again I put myself on record that LB was probably the best choice “I think Lord B should not be lynched at this time or even at L-1. He still may be the best vote, and if the deadline was tomorrow that is who I would push for.”

I hate being defensive, but like I said, that post was suspicious and needed to be addressed. By itself, it is very scummy. Combined with everything above, I’ll hope you see that I was all over Lord B for most of D1…

[I Am Innocent]

Now onto offense:

1) If there is a cop counter claim, now is the time to make it. As long as townies are being honest, game would be over if a true cop stepped forward. As of right now, vezo has claimed cop, and Deer and I have specifically said we are not cops. Other 4 players?

2) I personally believe vezo. As I mentioned earlier, it was an all risk move as the scum at that point would not have known if Town had a cop or not. Plus, Lord B seemed to be fishing for the Doctor when he put Amish at L-1.

3) If we have a Doctor out there, you need to stay quiet. If we don't have a Doctor out there, vezo is lying and that will come to the surface when no Doctor dies....

My Top 2 suspects are Dr Glunk/RealityFan & fuzzylightning.

Both made appearances when Lord B came under fire and neither seemed to point the finger at Lord B, they both seem to divert attention to Charlou.

I'll give RealityFan a chance to post before I send my vote there, so in the meantime:

vote: fuzzylightning

[I Am Innocent]

If we don't have a Doctor out there, vezo is lying and that will come to the surface when no Doctor dies....

Not really sure what you mean here. Are you saying that if no doc is NKed/lynched, then it will be proven that vezo is lying...?

No I am assuming if we go through D2/N2/D3/N3 and vezo is still alive and no Doctor has been outted/killed, then at that point the group (with 3 people left) should ask the Doctor to come forward. If no Doctor comes forward (no doctor exists), that means vezo is lying***

***Vezo said he is a cop and he is roleblocked. There is no scenario where a cop/roleblocker without a doctor exists.

[I Am Innocent]

Hmm...I didn't think about it that much, but you have a point. My theory is flawed...darnit XD Ok, who has a motive for killing Amish...

Well, after reading through his posts quickly, his suspects were Char and vezo, not sure who else would kill him, as most suspected him. Unless he displayed some doc-tell I'm not catching? :/

Well Amish was at L-1 and he claimed Vanilla Townie, so the scum had to know he wasn't the Doc.

[I Am Innocent]

That is L-1 people.

It is way to early D2 to get to L-1 imo.

Reality is one of my two suspects as well, but maybe an FOS would work as well here. He has to be feeling the pressure as it is.

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP

Nobody hammer without giving a chance to claim.

I personally would not like to see a claim this early in the day either AS THIS ONLY HELPS SCUM. My preference would be to keep at L-2 with Reality wary that two people (myself included) find him and his predecessor as a prime suspect.

[I Am Innocent]

vezo claimed cop D1 and then survived the first night ... What does that tell us?

Well he said he was roleblocked, so it is one of two things:

1) Vezo is the cop, there is a roleblocker out there, and a Doctor too. Not sure why the roleblocker wouldn't search out the cop though...

2) Vezo is not the cop, so he is probably a goon (and there is a Doctor out there) or a roleblocker (and no Cop/Doctor out there)

Charlou are you the cop?

[I Am Innocent]

vezo claimed cop D1 and then survived the first night ... What does that tell us?

Well he said he was roleblocked, so it is one of two things:

1) Vezo is the cop, there is a roleblocker out there, and a Doctor too. Not sure why the roleblocker wouldn't search out the cop though...

2) Vezo is not the cop, so he is probably a goon (and there is a Doctor out there) or a roleblocker (and no Cop/Doctor out there)

Charlou are you the cop?

Second sentence under 1) should have said doctor, not cop. (Not sure why the roleblocker wouldn't search out the

doctor

though...)

[I Am Innocent]

I am just going to say that I am V/LA until Monday because my days are just going to get busier until then

This was from last Thursday. Said he'd be back Monday, it is now the following Thursday.

mod, could you please prod fuzzy

I totally agree with Deer's last post.

I also think to give us the best chance at the right person, we should see if fuzzy picks up his prod. If not, we need to give his replacement a chance to speak on his/her behalf.

vezo, you basically have a free pass to the Final 3 or until the Doctor dies. If the Doctor hasn't died by the Final 3, and no Doctor comes forward, everyone will know you are scum (since a Cop/Roleblocker/No Doctor scenario exists).

If a Doctor comes forward, the Doctor will need to figure out if you are really the cop and the other play the roleblocker, or if you are a goon and the other player vanilla townie.

I want to get that on record in case I go one of these next few nights. Basically though, the Town is in really good shape on this one.

[I Am Innocent]

And even more rolefishing? Crazy.

Doc, do not claim!

Here's what will happen:

1. We leave vezo alive, lynch until we either find the last scum or end up in lylo or if he gets to L-1.

2. If there is a doctor revealed, either through an L-1 claim or an NK, then we know vezo is legit. That's a confirmed townie right there.

3. If no doc is revealed and we get to lylo, then they'll ask for the doc to claim. If neither person claims doc, vezo is scum. If someone does claim doc, then the doc will have to decide in lylo.

But, the doctor should not come out. Asking for that just puts more suspicion on you - you're an SE, after all. You can't use the noob excuse.

Agreed, Doc should not claim until LyLo.

There is 0 benefit to having the doc claim right now.

If we did ask for a doc claim now, the only good thing that happens is if no doc comes forward, we know vezo is lying and we lynch him.

But many bad things can happen, like a doc comes forward, but then gets killed N2 (and cop blocked N2), and then N3 the cop dies. We get to D4 with 0 confirmed innocents.

We get the same benefit if we wait until LyLo to ask for the Doc claim if trying to determine vezo's innocence is legit or not. If no doc claim happens, you lynch vezo. If a doc claim happens, you have 1 confirmed innocent (the Doctor), who has a 50/50 chance at a win.

I plan on rereading the thread in the next few days, and will present my choice for the lynch.

[I Am Innocent]

Doc Don't Claim

Fuzzylightning is doing some stupid moves there thinking we are all noobs. You must be the scum and try to get the doctor to claim so you can kill him.

Unvote; Vote Fuzzylightning

Fuzzy, you are at L-1. I think it is time to claim a role if you have one.

Please nobody hammer without giving him a chance to claim.

[I Am Innocent]

Why do we have to wait him claim?
He's clearly not the doc. He won't claim mafia RB. He didn't claim he's cop. The only other roles are townies.

Why do we have to wait? Because we don't want to make a mistake.

We have plenty of time before the deadline, so waiting until he claims a role surely can't hurt, can it?

[I Am Innocent]

Which is still possible. But we don't know if there is a doctor or not. For all we know,

you could've killed Amish so that your cop claim looked more legit

. (Then again it would be proven that you're scum once we get to lylo anyway)

What do you mean by the underlined? How did Amish dying make vezo look more legit?

[I Am Innocent]

Vezo, if you are going to play this game, play this game, don't play this game with the view of trying to get in another game.

Not sure I agree with the rest of the post, but I 100% agree with this part. Vezo, you know you are not going to die until N3 at the earliest (assuming you are cop and the doctor gets snagged N2). And if you are scum, you know we won't lynch you until D4 (when we are down to 3 people, and no doctor comes forward).

At the same time, one of the rest of us is going to have their game ended N2 if we don't get this right. We'd like to make the best decision possible. This game is probably not going to end in the next 24-48 hours. If you are really that intent to play a different game, I suggest asking for a replacement...

[I Am Innocent]

You know what, I don't know if this is the hammer or not, but I'm dropping it:

vote: realityfan

Without giving a chance to claim? For real?

Everyone

Unvote realityfan. He's town. Also he's not dead. I lied.
Now I have to reread the hole thread.

Unvote Realityfan

Interesting...

Vezo, how do you know that he is town?

Very true. I am usually aware of how many votes I have, so reality could certainly be playing us...

********************

My thoughts:

1) If there is not a doctor, we are guaranteed the win.

2) If there is a doctor, we need to keep him/her hidden as long as possible.

We now uncovered two people who both claim vanilla townie. I don't think strategically we should uncover anymore D2, esp since I like Deer believe one of these two players to be the remaining scum. We still have two mislynches left, so strategically we are better off choosing between these two people and making it harder for the scum to find the doctor...

Please, in the future, nobody hammer without giving a chance to claim. That is just not good play at all.

As for fuzzy/reality, I think I am still leaning towards fuzzy. Lord B lurked early, I called him on it, and then he played consistently. fuzzy lurked early, was prodded, answered the prod in about 3 hours, and now he is here full time it seems. I wonder if fuzzy suggested the early lurking to Lord B as newbies seem to shoot themselves in the foot in these games.

Factor in the L-2 drama during RVS and the vote out vezo D2, I am leaning towards fuzzy and will keep my vote there for now.

[I Am Innocent]

realityfan is probably town because he claimed when he thought was dead.

We don't know what he thought. He may have realized that was only his 3rd vote and tried to play one over on us.

Charlou, why the hesitancy to place a vote for Reality or fuzzy? Do you really think it is in town's best interest to vote out somebody else at this point D2?

I'm going to lay out a strategy, one assumes there is a doctor, one assumes there isn't:

NO DOCTOR

We lynch someone D2, someone dies N2, we lynch someone D3, someone dies N3, we are down to 3 people. At this point, we ask the Doctor to come forward. When no Doctor comes forward, we know vezo is lying because he said he was a cop, and he was roleblocked N1. The only scenario with a Cop & Roleblocker also has a Doctor. So Vezo is lynched D4, and we win.

Basically if there is not a Doctor, town is guaranteed the win.

YES DOCTOR

This scenario we are not guaranteed a win. To enhance our chances, we need the Doctor to stay hidden and alive as long as possible. Every time we get to L-1 and ask somebody to claim, that leaves one less person that could be the Doctor. Right now the scum knows if there is a Doctor or not. If there is a Roleblocker out there and they are not named vezo, then they know we have a Doctor. And they are trying to uncover them.

Best long term strategy under a "YES DOCTOR" scenario, pick the best choice between a fuzzy and reality lynch. The scum is going to take a shot at me, you (Charlou), Skill or Deer in hopes of finding the Doctor. That is a 25% random shot right now. If we take another player to L-1 and they claim Vanilla Townie, now the scum has a 1 in 3 chance of finding the Doctor.

If we can catch the scum before D4, great. I think fuzzy and reality are both great choices, both are actually my top 2. But if we are wrong, we want to get to D4, under this scenario, with a Doctor who can then out themselves. That gives us 1 confirmed innocent.

In my mind it actually gives us 2 confirmed innocents, because vezo claiming cop when he did doesn't make sense if he was scum (scum did not know at that point if there was a cop or not). Plus after the claim, Lord B seemed to fishing for a 2nd power role with Amish "I wanted to see what you would claim."

Well these are my thoughts anyway. Whether I am the Doctor or not remains to be seen, but rest assured if we get to D4 and a Doctor outs themself, they will have to make that call between vezo being a Goon and the other player a vanilla townie, or vezo being the Cop and the other player being the Roleblocker.

[I Am Innocent]

We have had a relative active bunch, and I think to keep everybody in the game, I think we need to consider an early lynch. Just curious what everybody's thoughts are:

1) I am okay with a reality or fuzzy lynch, absolutely no preference

2) I am not okay with a reality or fuzzy lynch, I would prefer somebody else.

3) I am only willing to vote out reality D2

4) I am only willing to vote out fuzzy D2

5) I would prefer a reality lynch over fuzzy, but would be okay with either.

6) I would prefer a fuzzy lynch over reality, but would be okay with either.

I would like to see where everybody stands as of right now. I'll even go first.

I am leaning towards option #6

[I Am Innocent]

Good game all.

So the Doctor protected me N1??? Vezo had already claimed by that point!!!

[I Am Innocent]

LOL. I was sure deer was the doc. I never thought skill was it.

Me too. When Deer thought he might have hammered on Reality D2 without a chance to claim, I questioned him on it. As soon as I hit post, I thought, he must be the doctor, hence why he wasn't concerned about the doc claim.

At that point I decided to garner as much attention D2 to try to draw the NK. It seemed to work...

realityfan is probably town because he claimed when he thought was dead.

We don't know what he thought. He may have realized that was only his 3rd vote and tried to play one over on us.

Charlou, why the hesitancy to place a vote for Reality or fuzzy? Do you really think it is in town's best interest to vote out somebody else at this point D2?

I'm going to lay out a strategy, one assumes there is a doctor, one assumes there isn't:

NO DOCTOR

We lynch someone D2, someone dies N2, we lynch someone D3, someone dies N3, we are down to 3 people. At this point, we ask the Doctor to come forward. When no Doctor comes forward, we know vezo is lying because he said he was a cop, and he was roleblocked N1. The only scenario with a Cop & Roleblocker also has a Doctor. So Vezo is lynched D4, and we win.

Basically if there is not a Doctor, town is guaranteed the win.

YES DOCTOR

This scenario we are not guaranteed a win. To enhance our chances, we need the Doctor to stay hidden and alive as long as possible. Every time we get to L-1 and ask somebody to claim, that leaves one less person that could be the Doctor. Right now the scum knows if there is a Doctor or not. If there is a Roleblocker out there and they are not named vezo, then they know we have a Doctor. And they are trying to uncover them.

Best long term strategy under a "YES DOCTOR" scenario, pick the best choice between a fuzzy and reality lynch. The scum is going to take a shot at me, you (Charlou), Skill or Deer in hopes of finding the Doctor. That is a 25% random shot right now. If we take another player to L-1 and they claim Vanilla Townie, now the scum has a 1 in 3 chance of finding the Doctor.

If we can catch the scum before D4, great. I think fuzzy and reality are both great choices, both are actually my top 2. But if we are wrong, we want to get to D4, under this scenario, with a Doctor who can then out themselves. That gives us 1 confirmed innocent.

In my mind it actually gives us 2 confirmed innocents, because vezo claiming cop when he did doesn't make sense if he was scum (scum did not know at that point if there was a cop or not). Plus after the claim, Lord B seemed to fishing for a 2nd power role with Amish "I wanted to see what you would claim."

Well these are my thoughts anyway. Whether I am the Doctor or not remains to be seen, but rest assured if we get to D4 and a Doctor outs themself, they will have to make that call between vezo being a Goon and the other player a vanilla townie, or vezo being the Cop and the other player being the Roleblocker.

[I Am Innocent]

Quick Summary:

For the most part, I had 4 players circled as scummy during the game: Lord B, Amish, fuzzy, Reality/Dr Glunk.

I wonder why Reality NK'd Amish N1? I would have pushed hard for him as the lynch D2...

I originally thought Dr Glunk was more scummy than fuzzy, not sure why I switched so much D2. Sorry fuzzy. Funny thing was, late D2 I almost switched, but the hammer came before I had a chance. I just kept staring at Deer and Skill on Reality, and almost joined those two...

Player Review

Deer - You and I were on the same page almost the whole game. Great player you are and an absolute pleasure to play with!

fuzzy - Sounds like some real life issues caused your game play to be less than you would have liked. Still disagree with you getting so worked up about an RVS getting to L-2, then again, the player who took it there ended up being scum, so what do I know! Other notes, wanting the doc to claim D2, wrong move. And voting out the Cop when we had a fool proof plan, another wrong move. Not sure how much of that had to do with your busy schedule.

Charlou - Wow somes up your play. Not sure how to put this in words, but you were lucky to have Deer and I in the game, who both had newbie town vibes from you. You were such an easy lynch D1, but you survived. I hope you stick around and play some more, cause I thought you were a fun player to play with.

Reality Fan - You were kind of stuck in a bad situation. Not much you could do, but your efforts were good. I liked your play at L-1, you fooled a couple of the newbies anyhow.

Dr Glunk - You seemed awful nervous, like wary of making a mistake. Both yours and fuzzy's entry into the thread against Charlou right as the initial case against Lord B was being made ultimately was your downfall. Try to always play the same whether you are scum or not, that's the best advice I can give you.

Skill006 - You came in and played brilliantly. You never gave any evidence that you were the Doctor, so once again good job.

j west - I said it when you left that it was a shame you had to leave. I could tell you were a solid player. Luckily you leaving didn't hurt us too much as there was no drop off with Skill

Amish - Boy you are a tough read. You are the type of player that challenges me the most in these games. I could tell early on that you were going to be a good player, and lucky for town you went N1 or you and I were going to allow Reality to lay low D2 as we went at it. Would love to play with you again some time.

Lord B - You seemed scummy, but when you said to Amish, I wanted to see what you would claim, you basically killed yourself. Very raw for sure, need some more experience my friend.

vezo - vezo vezo vezo. Don't throw out hints about your role D1. You also jump around way too much for my liking. With all that aside, you were fun to play with.

Overall as a group, this may have been the most involved group I've seen from start to finish. A great pleasure all!!!

And last but not least, iamausername, thank you for modding!

[I Am Innocent]

Ahhh, memories...

And even more rolefishing? Crazy.

Doc, do not claim!

Here's what will happen:

1. We leave vezo alive, lynch until we either find the last scum or end up in lylo or if he gets to L-1.

2. If there is a doctor revealed, either through an L-1 claim or an NK, then we know vezo is legit. That's a confirmed townie right there.

3. If no doc is revealed and we get to lylo, then they'll ask for the doc to claim. If neither person claims doc, vezo is scum. If someone does claim doc, then the doc will have to decide in lylo.

But, the doctor should not come out. Asking for that just puts more suspicion on you - you're an SE, after all. You can't use the noob excuse.

Agreed, Doc should not claim until LyLo.

There is 0 benefit to having the doc claim right now.

If we did ask for a doc claim now, the only good thing that happens is if no doc comes forward, we know vezo is lying and we lynch him.

But many bad things can happen, like a doc comes forward, but then gets killed N2 (and cop blocked N2), and then N3 the cop dies. We get to D4 with 0 confirmed innocents.

We get the same benefit if we wait until LyLo to ask for the Doc claim if trying to determine vezo's innocence is legit or not. If no doc claim happens, you lynch vezo. If a doc claim happens, you have 1 confirmed innocent (the Doctor), who has a 50/50 chance at a win.

I plan on rereading the thread in the next few days, and will present my choice for the lynch.

My thoughts:

1) If there is not a doctor, we are guaranteed the win.

2) If there is a doctor, we need to keep him/her hidden as long as possible.

We now uncovered two people who both claim vanilla townie. I don't think strategically we should uncover anymore D2, esp since I like Deer believe one of these two players to be the remaining scum. We still have two mislynches left, so strategically we are better off choosing between these two people and making it harder for the scum to find the doctor...

Please, in the future, nobody hammer without giving a chance to claim. That is just not good play at all.

As for fuzzy/reality, I think I am still leaning towards fuzzy. Lord B lurked early, I called him on it, and then he played consistently. fuzzy lurked early, was prodded, answered the prod in about 3 hours, and now he is here full time it seems. I wonder if fuzzy suggested the early lurking to Lord B as newbies seem to shoot themselves in the foot in these games.

Factor in the L-2 drama during RVS and the vote out vezo D2, I am leaning towards fuzzy and will keep my vote there for now.