Newbie 970 - Quietville - Game over

[Lateralus22]

Vote: [o]rphen

For falling victim to peer pressure.

[Lateralus22]

Xite, what do you mean by "this is your warning"?

[Lateralus22]

Typically the newer you are the nicer I am, again look at hellraiser, he had never even heard of mafia before that game, which was why I was so nice, but even with him, i did decide on a policy lynch. I will do what is best for town,

even if that means lynching someone for the greater good

but as long as you aren't stupid, it wont come to that and everything will be fine. Sound good?

Er what... Are you saying you've already decided a policy lynch on (Rain?) (Wait... who's hellraiser?) aren't you taking RVS stage a little too seriously, or are you rushing towards the lynch?

[Lateralus22]

Wow... out of context response is out of context?
Read bolded part. This post had nothing to do with Rain at all tbh.
I was simply pointing out my hatred of stupidity and my ideology that a stupid townie is just as bad as scum, and should be treated as such
If you read my earlier post, you'd see that I mentioned hellraiser as the focal point of an old game, a sort of how not to play like super-noob if you will.
I was saying that we all will be on good terms if we all read and think first, then post
remember this?

Reread. Think. Then post.

Simple request is simple

My bad, I misunderstood your post thinking that you were talking about Rain. (Yes I did click on the first link to the site you gave and it only showed a freewebs site that said "Alpha site down" so I figured the site was down so I wouldn't be able to find any mafia games to see this hellraiser person you're speaking about. All I saw were some mafia rules below and I did not look on any other pages.)

As for your earlier question that I'll respond to now,

Also, exactly how new is everyone here?

I used to play a few mafia games at some other sites but I haven't played mafia in about half a year.

[Lateralus22]

Right now not really and good reasons up, soo.

eenie meenie miney moe

Vote: [O]rphen

Was this vote truly random or was the fact that [O]rphen voted for you earlier influenced your vote?

[Lateralus22]

haha searching out OMGUS voters already?
well if that was the case, the eeny meenie could have been him choosing between me or vayre

Maybe, but he did vote for the one play who kept his vote on him.

I don't think OMGUS is much of a tell until later in the game when people should have better reasons than that to place their votes.

In any case there's still two players who haven't posted yet, I'd like to hear from them.

Either way it could still be a tell, but I do agree that right now at this moment it doesn't mean much.

Is it normal to randomly lynch people right at the beginning? It seems like it would be a bit illogical for a townie to do so to me :/
But I suppose it gets the game rolling...

It seems our IC is nowhere in sight... We start out the game in RVS which will then lead to actual discussion. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... ning_Stage
We pretty much vote randomly but we don't aim to lynch someone randomly.

Half and half. It was random between the people I had any reason to vote for, which as Xite said was him and Orphen. As Mirhawk said there's not really much else to go on right now as far as reasons for voting go, if any better reasons come up, which would be pretty much anything, i'll change my vote to reflect that.

Alright, what do you think about Xite's overreaction?
----
@Orphen

What has Xite sidetracked this game from? Do you believe there anything important he could have brought up into the game instead of explaining what he did?

While Xite's overreaction unnecessary in his defense he did have to explain the same things about 4 times before your vote. No while explaining something for the 5th time will piss anyone off, is that what you were going for? Did you think Xite was an easy target to bait so you could use his overreaction as a reason to to lead a bandwagon against him?

@Xite

Do you believe your reaction was appropriate? Was it even required to explain the whole situation over again when you could have simply said you were explaining an important part of the game to rain? What was the main cause for your reaction, was Orphen's accusation, or was it his vote?

[Lateralus22]

Unless youre trying to lead a wagon on me and get me lynched because I'm an easy target

Do my questions make you feel that way, if so that was not my intention.

[Lateralus22]

@Lateralus

Half and half. It was random between the people I had any reason to vote for, which as Xite said was him and Orphen. As Mirhawk said there's not really much else to go on right now as far as reasons for voting go, if any better reasons come up, which would be pretty much anything, i'll change my vote to reflect that.

(A)

Please do give credit where credit is due. I believe it was Vayre's words, page 2 (Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:22 am).

(B)

By the way, do you mind answering some of your own questions? I would like to know your thoughts about both Xite's and Orphen's behavior.

(A) I don't understand, what are you referring to? Even though I didn't post it I read and acknowledged Vayre's reason for voting.

(B)Yeah, no problem. Is there any specific questions or do you want me to post my general thoughts?

Orphen

First post is RVS, nothing more to say.

All this talk, and all this blabbing on about something tiny and insignificant is sidetracking us, and is anti-town behavior. Get over it, it's RVS, all the other reasons for voting are insignificant, and mainly ignored, at least by me. Also doubt a scum would vote without supplying a reason and bring so much attention to himself.

From what I've read he's voting Xite for dragging on about adding a reason to your RVS vote. I don't find this scummy because I believe the scum would prefer to stay on the sidelines instead of move the game forward. His last sentence appears to be WIFOM, after all this didn't bring a large amount to Rain nor would I ever expect it to. In any game here all I would expect to hear is someone kindly saying (to the play who didn't add a reason) to post a reason to RVS so it can add to the discussion. It wouldn't lead to that player being lynched right away, in fact it put Xite in the spot light instead.

Orphen's 3rd post

1) If it happens again (which it won't, do you really think that bad of us?) we'll deal with it then. Reacting this heavily over no RVS reason? Just a warning? It's a warning that sidetracked us quite a bit, you could of just said "hey would you mind telling us the reason behind the vote, cause if we dont put our reasoning then the scum can vote without giving reasons and itd be really hard to scumhunt." Yet you didnt. You've just dragged on and on about the same thing, and keep repeating the same points over and over again.

Looking over this point I simply do not agree. Xite's second post was a simple 3 lines, now whether a vote is overreacting or not is debatable and if we skip ahead to page 2 Rain shows that he understood what Xite was saying. However every time Xite brought up his point it was because someone questioned him.

See here,

1st When Lateralus asked "Xite, what do you mean by "this is your warning"?"
2nd & 3rd time was when Mirhawk called Xite a hypocrite so he had to explain his post and they had a small discussion. (Page one, starts from Mirhawk's first post)
4th Time was when Lateralus misundertood Xite's post and he explained the whole situation... again. (After mrdean's first post)

Now you'd think he stop but... Orphen decided to bring this up again leading to the 5th explanation with red text. So really it wasn't that Xite felt he needed to bring this up over and over again but it was that someone questioned him about this point.

Points 2/3/4 I don't have anything to say.

If he is scum it seems like he's really just baiting Xite into overreacting, but I believe I or someone else has already said that.

If he's town then it seems like he's judging a bit too fast and his case is weak.

Xite

Actually, I've already gone over what he's done in the Orphen analyse.

If he's scum then he's just being silly. He appears to be trying to obtain a leader like position in order to keep suspicion away or either to lead the town into false lynches.

If he's town then I still believe he is overreacted and should focus more on the game at hand. He doesn't need to post long paragraphs, a simple answer would help the game move along smoother. While he's tried to help the town understand good game mechanics he should be more focused on scum hunting.

[Lateralus22]

Funny thing is I am scum hunting.
I do have a case on orphen do I not?
Also, from my actions, I am gaging reactions. Simple as that.

Only after someone voted for Although I guess that doesn't really matter. Is Orphen the only one person you suspect of being scum at the moment? Did you think anyone was else was scum before then?

What reactions have you gotten out of people? All I recall is Mirhawk calling you a hypocrite and Rain telling you he understands what you're saying. (Or are you counting Orphen's case against you as a reaction? )

Speaking of Mirhawk... Is their a particular reason you've decided to only respond to/when Xite does?

Post 1 & 2 are discussing with Xite
Post 3 is responding right after Xite does

Post 4 is an exception, but it's only telling Compute about RVS

Do you have anything to say about the game?

[Lateralus22]

I'm more interested in Lateralus, you seem to have a fence sitting position between Xite and Orphan where you are mediating the dispute and could easily jump onto whichever side looks like the town is leaning toward.

I still have a neutral read on both players. As time passes and more information is here I will be able to get a better read on them.

If you were to change to a SpongeBob avatar my vote would never stay off you. Even if you did change your avatar; that show is an abomination.
But rly, just trying to participate in the RVS; my vote will change if I think someone is suspicious or if it looks like he's close to being lynched. At the moment I'm actually edging towards changing to Lateralus for a reason he actually brought up himself, he said "I believe the scum would prefer to stay on the sidelines instead of move the game forward." which it seems to me that he's doing without drawing suspicion by not posting about what's going on at all.

Pot, meet kettle. This surprises me, I looked over my posts and I disagree with what you said. I try to advance the game forward by asking questions to get information and I posted my analyse on Xite & Orphen in order to contribute to the game. Do you think there's anything I can do in order to improve the way I'm playing?

[Lateralus22]

Hmm I never really noticed that myself until you pointed it out. Its not intentional, just those are the posts I was responding to. At this point I'm not as suspicious of Xite as I was before anyway. I don't think she defended herself very well, but if I were mafia and in her shoes I would had tried to deflect that conversation off me and onto someone else sooner than she did.

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

Fair enough.

At the moment I'm most interested in Lateralus so...

VOTE: Lateralus

I'm curious, what is the reason for this vote? I read the quote and Rain is speaking about RVS and if it's about upholding information, I think I've already provided some or asked questions in order to obtain information.

I don't agree with this. I think that a mafia player would be more inclined to be active. It is after all in their best interests to move the game forward quickly, particularly if they can steer it towards a townie.

Not really, the more posts/content to post the more easier it should be to call BS on them. If they blend in the crowd they'll be harder to spot. Oddly enough if this is what you think the mafia would do then don't you think Xite is the mafia?

A) He is active.
B) He is moving this game forward, and oddly enough he seems to think he's the leader here.

AND since Xite is within your definition of mafia then why did you state here that you do not think he is the mafia?

Why would I vote for you or Xite? I had already stated in my previous post that I wasn't all that suspicious of you and I wasn't sure if Xite would jump into the spotlight so much is she was scum.

Well?

FoS: Mirhawk

[Lateralus22]

Hmm I never really noticed that myself until you pointed it out. Its not intentional, just those are the posts I was responding to. At this point I'm not as suspicious of Xite as I was before anyway. I don't think she defended herself very well, but if I were mafia and in her shoes I would had tried to deflect that conversation off me and onto someone else sooner than she did.

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

I'll answer this... uh no, like I said, rain is closer to my play style, satirical humor + Always a serious scumhunter, even when posting seemingly useless stuff... that's how I'd describe us both

But honestly why did you ask this?

I will explain after Mirhawk answers.

[Lateralus22]

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

I dunno, maybe. I think it would probably be easier for a third party to make a judgement on this rather then me or Xite. Do you think I play in the same way?

Honestly I don't. This is important because if you don't then you're reason for not voting Xite in the start of the game is nothing. Please reread the quote that I asked the question from. You speak of what you would do as mafia instead of Xite as a reason to not vote him but seeing how two of you having different play styles you wouldn't act in the same way making your reason just an excuse.

At the time I cast it I was thinking that Xite and Orphan could both be town. And if they were both town then you might be using your position between them to egg on the argument without actually getting inside it. You were after all at the time asking questions of both sides at once without committing to either of them.

I believe Rain mentioned this a while back right? It is not my intention to put any two players against each other, but seeing how the topic of the questions was I'm not surprised people began to think I was. Although I don't have too much of a problem as long as everyone remains mature, conversations like the Orphen/Xite one give off information and even though at the time you though they could both be town it's also possible they could both, or one of them be scum.

I said I figured they would be active, not suicidal. Xite couldn't have jumped further out into the spotlight if her head was on fire and was shooting fireworks out of her ass.

Besides Xite had a point when she said that speculation on this is kinda useless. Its not going to help us catch scum.

Opinion. Though one needs to know how scum would act like in order to catch the scum correct?

To me this is another one of the questions that keeps him out of it but seems designed to make Xite and Mirhawk not like each other, comparing yourself to other people makes you not like them in my experience.

No, not really. I was trying to portray either of them in a negative light or make one of them look better than the other. It was simply needed to make my point above. Also Xite where are your percentages coming from?

Oh I'd also like to

unvote

since RVS is over. I'd like to see a little more content from Compute/Nacho/RS

[Lateralus22]

Er edit (whatever the abbreviation is for it)

I was trying to portray

should be

I

wasn't

[Lateralus22]

Fuck EBWOP again
okay, computing
WIFOM stands for Wine in front of me
Ever seen the princess bride? Remember when the wine was poisoned and the guy had to choose between one or the other practically based on character? (Youre a pussy, so you would never put the drink in front of you, however you know I would think that so you would put it in front of you, but then again..... and so on)
That's WIFOM

God, I'm sorry, I

know

I'm being thick about this but I still don't understand its use in mafia, what's the poisoned wine? The apparent options of answers to a question one (or more) of which which will mean arrival at the conclusion that you are pure scum? Or am I getting too tangled up in the metaphor and it's just about arriving at recursive reasoning through any method? If the latter why is it based on the specific example of the Princess Bride (which I have seen and love) which is about tying to out manoeuvring your opponent thought logic and then being thwarted by the fact that they weren't even playing your game?
I'm making this more complicated than it is, aren't I?
I'm sorry, I know I'm clogging up the thread with this, if I still don't understand after this, I'll just accept that I will never do so. ;___;

Yeah, you are making this more complicated. The example is from the movie, doesn't mean it has to go or even be related to the theme of the movie. Have you checked out the wiki yet?

This should explain it (It's actually from the wik but hey now you don't have to click the link)

So begins the game of "wine in front of me", or WIFOM, for short. In gaming, it's any kind of game or subgame, especially a psychological one, in which a player is given a set of apparently equal choices where one or more is completely wrong. In such games one often may try to use what he knows of his opponent to make a better choice. However, in some situations this leads to recursive reasoning: "But that's just what he wants me to think, so I'll do the opposite. But maybe that's what he wants me to think, so I'll not do the opposite. But maybe that's what he wants me to think..."

It's pretty much when something can go either way, but if you still don't get it the wiki link is there.
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wifom

[Lateralus22]

Honestly I don't. This is important because if you don't then you're reason for not voting Xite in the start of the game is nothing. Please reread the quote that I asked the question from. You speak of what you would do as mafia instead of Xite as a reason to not vote him but seeing how two of you having different play styles you wouldn't act in the same way making your reason just an excuse.

Perhaps, but what should I be using as a baseline for what is scummy behavior then? Seeing as how I'm not familiar with any of the people in this game I have no past behavior to compare what they are doing to other than what I would do in a similar situation.

You've got the whole wiki and your common sense to tell you what scum behavior is, I'm not here to tell you how to scum hunt. Take a look at the your post that I quoted about what you think the mafia hat act like. My point was that at this point Xite had these characteristics, but you did not think he was scum. This is contradicting yourself. It's weird. This makes me suspicious of you.

Mm, I see now that it did have a point and actually a good one, so that question at least wasn't about putting them against each other. But it did seem very carefully neutral as did your response. I'm not quite sure what to make of it but would like to know your current opinion of them both.

I don't think being neutral is bad, but then again I am new too. Personally I think it would be better to ask questions in a non biased way right? My opinion on Xite & Mirhawk? I believe I already have a few of my thoughts on both of them posted already but before posting another analyse on them I'd like to wait a bit. Mainly for Orphen to post again, I'm still not sure what to make of him.

As Town the most productive thing that I believe you can do is help move the game forward and look for scum tells.

@Xite

Do you suspect everyone who votes/is suspicious of you? Your vote on Mirhawk seems like OMGUS...?

[Lateralus22]

@Computing

I don't think changing your avatar ever has, ever will, or should even be considered a scum tell. He's probobly just messing with you or trying to have a little fun. Is there anything else about his behavior that you think is suspicous or is it just... changing his avatar?

[Lateralus22]

Unvote: [O]rphen

RVS is over, still waiting for Orphen to post. I did bold my unvote last page though.

[Lateralus22]

@Computing

I don't think changing your avatar ever has, ever will, or should even be considered a scum tell. He's probobly just messing with you or trying to have a little fun. Is there anything else about his behavior that you think is suspicous or is it just... changing his avatar?

It's changing his avatar when I said that would get him a vote that I'm interested in. And I'm not allowed to have a little fun as well? I did say I find this line of thought fun more than anything else.
As soon as he answers my question I will probably remove the vote but it will depend on his answer.

I'm also curious as to why you're waiting for him to post before commenting on the others but I suppose I'll find out why when he does.

Let me rephrase this "It seems like the avy change was just a joke" while your vote seemed dead serious. The only reason I'm waiting for Orphen is because I don't want to end up contradicting myself right when he does, It would be pointless for me to point out who I think is scum, make a case for that person, and then change my mind 5 minutes laters.

[Lateralus22]

Let me rephrase this "It seems like the avy change was just a joke" while your vote seemed dead serious. The only reason I'm waiting for Orphen is because I don't want to end up contradicting myself right when he does, It would be pointless for me to point out who I think is scum, make a case for that person, and then change my mind 5 minutes laters.

It's a vote because of an avy change. How could that ever be completely serious? I had thought that I'd made it clear that the vote is a joke when replying to Xite but evidently not. I defended keeping it there to Rain because I really do think that it can gather information where it is and that if he was in danger of getting lynched for it any one who had the best interest of the town at heart would allow me to take it off before putting the nail in his coffin.

So your comments on Xite and Mirhawk could be altered by what Orphen says? Okay, I understand that C:

So you do not vote seriously, I see... did you think you vote could pressure him although the reason was "not completely serious"? If so what reaction do you think he would have and what could that reveal?

It's not the comments I want to present that'll be changed(Any scummy behavior should be presented) but more of my personal thoughts on each of them.

[Lateralus22]

@Nacho

Have you finished reading the thread?

[Lateralus22]

Orphan.. lying at lylo like you wanted to is poor play. You should be relying on actual text, a role claim isn't even reliable at this stage in the game.

Before I had left I was trying to create a case linking Mirhawk + Orphen as scum, or put Xite in as one of them. The problem was Xite was so scummy it was hard to avoid and I didn't want to bus him right then. Not entirely sure what I would have done if I hadn't left, nor why if I would have stayed town would have won. (Sleepless lurked the whole time for crying out loud guys, the role claim at the end should have indicated something was wrong.) If I would have gotten a Mirhawk lynch I might have went after Orphen since he wouldn't be too hard to tie in with Xite, or lynch in general.

I was surprised by both Rain and Nachomma, Nachomma has a solid case, only problem was you were over estimating both players abilities. Rain case was actually pretty good too.

Sleepless played along completely different than I would have, but either way good job.

[Lateralus22]

Not sure why if I stayed in town would have won. Sleepless what were your reasons for your night kills?