Newbie 975 - Game Over

[montgomery]

/confirm

Hi everyone, this is my first forum mafia game so I'm very excited!

[montgomery]

Sorry to have to ask, but I don't know what a trick vote is? If anyone could explain I would appreciate it.

[montgomery]

Okay thanks!

[montgomery]

I've seen in some newbie games that sometimes someone asks questions to help scumhunt/get a discussion going and I thought maybe we could do that? But I'm not really sure what questions would be best to ask or if that works well.
At the momment, for lack of a better idea,

Vote: Kazasama

for not confirming yet.

[montgomery]

For the record, I'm female.

[montgomery]

My unicorn avatar just makes me happy to look at it because of an inside joke between my boyfriend & I. But yeah I had it before the game, so I don't see how its relevant. Ythan could you provide an example of an avatar that would make a player ignore someone? I don't understand how that works?

[montgomery]

Yeah that seems ridiculous to me, what does a persons avatar have to do with wether they are mafia or not?

[montgomery]

Oh and while I remember, Ythan could you please explain the L1 L2 thing, I don't understand it?

[montgomery]

Yep that's what I'm talking about I think? And so its just a majority vote for a lynch? I think I understand.

[montgomery]

Vote: Good and Honest

I am nervous about Good and Honest because I don't like people who try to clear themselves via meta (is that what you call it here?) with people that they haven't ever played with before. I don't know Good and Honest, I have never played forum mafia before so I haven't played with him, and because he is in a newbie game I assume he hasn't built up a reputation for being good and honest. I don't know if Good and Honest really doesn't lie but I'm certainly not going to take everything he says as the truth because he says he doesn't lie and I think everyone should do the same.

[montgomery]

I think what Grey is saying has some merit, Ythan could've pointed out how the post was empty (Femm talked about maybe not trusting Good and Honest, but didn't actually reach any conclusions) but I feel as if he has made other posts not directed to Ythan that have had content in them. Is your playstyle usually this agressive Ythan? It could be because of my newness but you seem very pushy (I'm not quite sure of the word, maybe forcefull)?

[montgomery]

Sorry that I haven't been active in the past 12 hours or so, I changed my email and didn't realise it would make me unable to log in until I got reactivated.
Ottofar seems scummy to me, asking about how the mafia communicate, I'm not sure why you need to know that if you don't need to communicate as mafia? But on the other side of the coin, I am a person who likes to thoroughly research/learn as much as I can about what I am doing so I understand the curiosity. I'm not sure if Otto is coming from a place where he is just curious about game mechanics or is mafia. I want to see why Otto felt the need to ask that.

[montgomery]

I still really dislike how Good and Honest is playing the game, I don't trust them to be Good and Honest . I think refusing to answer questions in regard to your role seems purposely deceptive to me, it's easy to say, so I don't ruin games with my honesty I won't say anything in regards to my role, but that seems like a good way to be deceptive. I don't like what Otto did with his how do mafia communicate question but I'm going to leave my vote on GH until Otto explains why he asked the communication question.

[montgomery]

No that's not it. I'm just voting him because I don't like the way that he is playing this, and I think later on in the game it could cause problems. It's more of a policy vote if anything, I don't like people who uses metas when I have no experience with them. Btw, is that what it's calling on here, meta or meta gaming?

[montgomery]

*Is that what it's called on here. Sorry.

[montgomery]

Sorry to ask, but flaking? I'm not sure what that is.

[montgomery]

Grey, you made a post pointing out that you thought Ythan's post or content was empty so he is asking for you to point out the post and what you feel is empty about it. There's no need to shut down, just answer his question again if you feel like you have already answered it.

[montgomery]

I can see why those would seem like empty posts, but maybe it's because I come from a place where in mafia days are 10 minutes and nights are 3, why does a post calling something empty need to be long? Maybe Ythan should've explained why he thought Femm's post was empty, but I don't think his post is hypocritical?

[montgomery]

Speaking of Femm, maybe they are just inactive, but they have seemed to make one or two posts without really giving us their opinion/thoughts and then left.

[montgomery]

What does /bam mean?

I was wondering the exact same thing.

[montgomery]

Oh okay, so like bandwagoning or sheeping?

[montgomery]

I'd still like to hear Grey's opinions outside of the Ythan incident and Otto's explanation for his how do the mafia communicate question.

[montgomery]

Since Mitsuru pointed out that I hadn't shown too much of my opinions (which I was confused by, I thought I had but maybe I didn't convey them very well) here are my thoughts on everyone thus far:
Webz : Seems to be raising valid points and asking the right questions in order to scum hunt, nothing they have said or done has stood out as mafia-like to me just yet.

Good and Honest: I really don’t like his supposed play style at all, but I think it’s good that he isn’t exactly expecting me to believe it, but his insistence that he is always good and honest seems very scummy to me. I think if he was really planning to always be truthful in games, he would do just that and people would start to realise this and he would build a meta. I also think that not voting is not a good thing for town and his reluctance to vote is not good.

Mitsuru Kirijo: At first I didn’t really see much of Misuru, they didn’t say anything with very much substance/didn’t participate as much some of the more active people so I didn’t really notice them. I think they raised some valid points recently though (about G&H, Muthaa and Otto in particular) and has been trying to scum hunt.

Muthaa: At first I was confused about Muthaa but now I strongly FOS them. For what I am seeing, Muthaa is trying to make posts to make it appear like he is participating in the game/trying to help town but actually isn’t, he spent the first bit of the game arguing with Ythan about something that they both agreed on, then he didn’t say much, now he is posting only to defend himself. I think it’s called active lurking? He is coming off scumish to me but I’m not sure yet.

Greydead: I’m unsure about Grey. He made a post about Ythan’s comments being empty because he made two posts that lacked in content (but to me Ythan didn’t have to write an essay about why Femm’s posts where empty) which I think was him just pointing out a (not sure of the word to use here) mere observation and came off townie when he tried to defend himself and respond to what Ythan was saying. One thing that bothers me is outside of The Incident, he hasn’t really given any thoughts either way about who could be scum (though I think he said something about Otto).

Ottofar: I FOS Otto. Not only has he barely said anything in the game, but his question about how do mafia communicate seemed very strange to me (especially when I thought the mod had made it obvious at the start of the day) and not only that, but he ignored everyone’s requests to clarify why he asked that and instead made a post lacking in content (first line was about how he doesn’t write a lot, and the second I don’t really understand, I think he was saying why he got confused about how mafia killed?).

FEMM the Attorney: I don’t really have any thoughts about them because they have barely posted, but Femm hasn’t really contributed or tried to contribute much so that is scummy.

Ythan: At first I was really put off by how aggressive Ythan is and thought that could be a sign of him being mafia but I think that was just me being a scared newbie, and I now think that it’s just the way he plays. Ythan is definitely scum hunting and asking questions, which makes him look townie in my eyes so far.

Also I would really appreciate it if you could all tell me your gender so don’t have to keep using they/them.
Oh wow way to write an essay, Monty. Anyway

Vote: Ottofar

[montgomery]

Oh wow I seemed to have gotten confused, I think it was Otto who asked about the mafia kills and Muthaa who asked about the communication? I'll read re and re clarify.

[montgomery]

Muthaa, thank you for answering my questions, too. The reason I was left with the impression that you didn't have any knowledge regarding the communication between the mafiosi was that when Ottofar asked "Assuming there is, why would've I asked on the thread?", you answered "Because you can't anywhere else?". That sounded to me like you didn't know a mafioso could ask anywhere else but I must have misunderstood you. So what did you actually mean when you said "Because you can't anywhere else?"?

I didn't read this properly and thought I had somehow gotten confused and that I was wrong about Otto asking about how mafia communicate and it was really Muthaa who asked it but I didn't actually get confused so my long post still stands. I really shouldn't post when I am this tired.

[montgomery]

So far my biggest candidates to be scum are Otto and Muthaa. I'd still like Otto to answer the question about why it is that he asked the question about mafia communicating and I want to hear Muthaa's thoughts on me saying that up until he has had to start to defend him self recently, he has been active lurking (making plenty of posts but with very little content about the game/finding scum).

[montgomery]

I also still don't like Good and Honest (but I think I am being biased because I really don't like his playstyle) and Femm, but I think it's good that Femm is a becoming a little more active and saying who they fos and etc.

[montgomery]

As I said in my huge post last page, some of the things he/she has done has seemed iffy to he, but at the momment there are people that I see as much more scummy.

[montgomery]

Oh and since I can't edit my posts my apologies if I get anyones gender wrong. I try to use she/he or them/they but sometimes I mess up.

[montgomery]

That wasn't what I was asking you though, I was asking if you think prior to having to defend yourself, you were contributing to finding scum/helping town.

[montgomery]

No I mean, before everyone started to vote you, do you feel as if you were trying to scumhunt/contribute to town with your posts, you originally didn't have as many votes on you now as you did before.

Vote Count

Muthaa (3) - Webz, Mitsuru Kirijo, FEMM the Attorney
Greydead (2) - Ottofar, Ythan
Ottofar (2) - Greydead, montgomery
montgomery (1) - Muthaa

Not Voting (1) - Good and Honest

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[montgomery]

Muthaa can you point out instances where you were trying? Cause to me it looked like first you had an arguement where you were arguing the same side as someone who made a statement about avatars and you were very wishy-washy about why you voted for me, then you had a very strange conversation with Otto about scum mechanics, then you had to defend yourself because of votes. I am very tempted to vote Muthaa at this point.

[montgomery]

I think he is saying that maybe if someone votes their partner, other people will like take notice and realise that the mafia is scummy and vote them? Or I'm not sure.

[montgomery]

Pushing what? If you are asking why I keep asking my question over and over, it's because I don't feel like I've gotten a proper answer, and I think it's an important question to see you point out where you feel you have tried to help town. The fact that you won't/can't provide examples makes you in my eyes look very scummy, had you given an answer I would've backed down.

Unvote Vote:Muthaa

[montgomery]

I don't really know much about claiming on this site (because where I play mafia, in this set up, people would've asked for you to claim if you are cop day 1, so it's confusing to me) it seems that people on here seem to hold out on claiming for much longer. I don't think he should claim just yet because it could potentially be harmful to town if Muthaa doesn't end up getting lynched, so I guess we should wait a little before he is asked to claim.

[montgomery]

But that's the thing Muthaa, I hadn't voted you, but I FOS'd you, so I asked you a question so you could show me how you thought you were pro-town/had not just made empty posts that weren't really relevant to the game. When you refused to answer my question and I had to keep rephrasing it and still hadn't gotten any examples or elaboration, I voted you because in my eyes you became even scummier. And Ythan had nothing to do with my question.

[montgomery]

Muthaa can you point out instances where you were trying? Cause to me it looked like first you had an arguement where you were arguing the same side as someone who made a statement about avatars and you were very wishy-washy about why you voted for me, then you had a very strange conversation with Otto about scum mechanics, then you had to defend yourself because of votes. I am very tempted to vote Muthaa at this point.

I still want this answered.

[montgomery]

And Muthaa, I find it odd that you say I'm pro-town yet your vote is on me. I think by now you should've stopped random voting and voted someone who you actually think is scum, but since apparently you can't even show how you have scumhunted then I guess it makes sense.

[montgomery]

I found you scummy for all the reasons I have listed in the past few pages, but your constance avoidance of my question is what made me finally vote you. But really my question was more of a way to show that I felt that you haven't made any attempts to help town or scumhunt (and since you haven't shown me otherwise since I asked to me that futher confirms what I thought) so I guess I voted you for that.

[montgomery]

Maybe we should do something like how Alduskkel posts vote counts.
Top FOSes:
montgomery - muthaa, otto
and etc

[montgomery]

Is who an alt?

[montgomery]

Alt=alternate account? Or is it something else.

[montgomery]

Also something I just thought of, what happens if someone doesn't vote, will it still go to the next day if G&H doesn't vote?

[montgomery]

No you didn't, you didn't provide a single example of when you thought you were trying to find scum/help town.

[montgomery]

No. This is my first forum mafia game ever, I didn't even know you could have alts on here. That's funny to me though lol.
Why'd you think I was one?

[montgomery]

He posts vote counts every day so that's what I was talking about.

[montgomery]

@Muth, I looked for some of yours but I couldn't really see any.

[montgomery]

No, had you answered with instances where you were protown or had scumhunted, I would've kept my vote on Otto.

[montgomery]

The whole start of the game where instead of contributing to town, you discused avatars and then maf mechanics with otto, and then refused to answer my question? Which you still haven't/

[montgomery]

Of course I am going to vote for someone who won't answer what I'm asking them when I have told them that if they answer it I would consider them much less scummy. The fact that instead of answering what I've asked of you but just (like G&H said) asked me questions instead of defending myself is why my vote is still on you. And Muthaa if you had read my giant post a few pages back, you would see that it's not only you that I find scummy.

[montgomery]

Muthaa what do you mean by info? I'm trying to understand what you mean by it but I don't understand. And I have stated why I think people are scummy over and over, if you really care to read why I fos the people I do, read back a few pages to where I posted my thoughts on everyone. And scumhunting is looking for/trying to find who is scum.

[montgomery]

You really need to stop trying to detract from the fact that you never answered my question in the first place.
And generally you find them, because they are asking plenty of relevant questions(not yours, yours are just a way to get around not having to say that you have contributed very little), stating their opinions, pointing out when they find people or actions scummy, and generally contributing.

[montgomery]

And you need to clarify what you mean by info.

[montgomery]

You are really frustrating me, I am restraining myself from posting all in caps. I have told you multiple times if you answer it will certainly change a thing for you.

Are you saying we should keep people who are scummy alive so that we have leads the next day? That makes no sense.

[montgomery]

I know I am, although I can't really help it. I disagree. And no, I'm saying to go look for info before lynching me (and not just to you).

What does that even mean?

[montgomery]

Hmm, that's an odd kill. Not sure what to make of that. I guess I'll re read G&H's posts and see if I can work anything out.

[montgomery]

But if Grey was going to kill people who accuse him, surely he would've killed Ythan first? Though maybe that would be too obvious. Hmm.

[montgomery]

I'm not understanding what you are saying - I'm not accusing Ythan, I'm just saying that we shouldn't immediately jump to Grey.

[montgomery]

Otto, do you feel as if you are basing your vote more on previous experience or on if you think Greydead is scummy himself?

[montgomery]

Otto, you didn't answer my question though, why to you is he scum, because of previous experience or because of him being scummy. I'm not going to vote you for not answering my question though because that didn't exactly work out well for me yesterday, but I would appreciate an answer.

[montgomery]

Mod, can you please prod Femm?

[montgomery]

Once again, you aren't adressing my question but I can't really vote you because it didn't work for me last time. Though I do find it highly scummy how you starting accused Greydead right off the bat when I didn't really see G&H accusing him of anything.

[montgomery]

Okay so from what I can see, Ottofar accuses Greydead due to a mix of his previous game experience, what he percieves as G&H accusing Grey (but in my eyes, G&H was just asking everyone questions, he was very investigative), and finding Grey scummy. Grey responds with something that could be taken as wifom "but if I was maf" and doesn't OMGUS straight away (though I'm not sure if it would have counted as OMGUS because Grey has said he found Otto scummy throughout the game) which leads Otto to futher think he is scummy/tunnel more.

I think Otto is acting in a strange way, just because someone doesn't instantly OMGUS doesn't mean that they are scum, maybe they just want to think things through/scum hunt more. I also don't agree with Webz, like Webz said, I think it's good to try and see what the maf's line of thought was when committing actions to help try and work out who is scum.

[montgomery]

I think that I will ultimately end up hammering, if it wasn’t L-1 I would vote for Otto at the moment. I just don’t like how he has tunnelled on Greydead under the pretence that G&H was accusing him when I have read back on G&H’s posts and really haven’t seen it, G&H just questioned everyone, not Grey in particular. Otto further accusing/tunnelling on Grey for not immediately also really seems scummy to me. I’d like to know what everyone thinks about asking for him to claim, or is it too early and should we carry on discussing this.

[montgomery]

EBWOP: *to further accusing/tunnelling on Grey for not immediately voting Otto back

[montgomery]

I don't understand what you seem to mean by anti-town and pro scum? Surely it would be a scumtell if it acts agaisnt the town's best interests etc.

I think very little could convince me that Otto wasn't scum because of the way he has tunnelled throughout. Otto I'd like to ask why you think Greydead not OMGUSing you was to you indicative of him being scum, in your eyes, should town always vote the person voting them back in that situation? I would like to ask if everyone agrees to an Otto claim or I you all feel I am rushing things. I don't want to rush a lynch but I do not at all like the way Otto has acted.

[montgomery]

That doesn't change my mind. If nobody else has any problems with it then I will hammer.

[montgomery]

Then I'd like to know why they have a problem with it and we can discuss it more?

[montgomery]

So everyone but Grey agrees to a hammer (Webz and I are the only ones not voting for Otto and he has already stated he agrees), Grey would you be okay with a hammer?

[montgomery]

Well since everyone is on board.

Vote: Ottofar

[montgomery]

Okay so, I guess I should out this. I'm cop, and have been informed that Grey is scum.
Vote:

Greydead

[montgomery]

But this game doesn't have any millers, so my report can't be anything but accurate.

[montgomery]

Sorry but - RB?

[montgomery]

I'm not sure if I should state my other report? I mean it could only help but I'm not sure if cop is supposed to out all reports in forum mafia.

[montgomery]

I have FEMM as innocent. That's why I backed off FEMM yesterday (though I tried to not seem like the cop as much as I could).

[montgomery]

Sorry.

Vote: Greydead

. I'd like see what both FEMM and Mist have to say (though I think what Ythan said makes sense, I will re read myself). It does look a little to me in those quotes that Mist seemed to be holding Grey's hand and guiding him. I think unless FEMM cc's doctor (and in that case, then Ythan would be mafia) then I am inclined to believe Ythan. It does seem a little odd that Mist stated there was a roleblocker when nobody but mafia would know what mafia are.

[montgomery]

Mistsuru, do you think you have been guiding Grey along?

[montgomery]

@Mist - You are suprised he was found guilty? But you said you suspected him previously and you appeared to question him. Is it only now that we have found you out that you are suprised?

In my eyes it is Grey and Mist, and auto win (I investigate Mist/Webz and gg).

[montgomery]

YESSS. That's one game under my belt then. I am SO glad that you didn't explore that there could be no roleblocker angle. And I chose FEMM because day one, FEMM was acting scummy and I pointed that out quite often, but day two I concentrated on Otto, because of this I thought it would give me more credibility as cop to say that I investigated the person that most of town seemed to FOS and that this would be backed up by my lack of suspicion on FEMM day two (because town would think that I knew FEMM was innocent because I was cop).

[montgomery]

Oh and the G&H kill was simple, Mist wanted to kill G&H because they were being very investigative and I agreed because I assumed that if there was a doctor, they would be on Ythan or Webz (Ythan was leading and Webz was very obviously townie throughout).

[montgomery]

Oh and sorry for the triple post, but I very nearly stumbled when Ythan said if you can clear 2 or 3 people and I was frantically trying to figure out how many reports cop would have (hence the delayed thing).

[montgomery]

I actually had not factored in a doctor save, this was the plan:
by montgomery
So is the plan,
-doc dies: no need for cop claim
-townie dies: i claim with a guilty on grey, say i have previous inno on femm
-cop dies: no need

does that work for you?

When I saw the failed kill I realised that I was working with a doctor though so claiming cop was the best option.

[montgomery]

I actually didn't mind being scum, it meant I didn't actually have to scumhunt, just make it look like I was. It was good experience anyway.