Newbie 1010 (Game Over)

[Vinicius Chaim]

confirm

[Vinicius Chaim]

hello guys
it's my very first game, so I've got some doubts like
what is FoS?
oh and

vote: civil scum for being scum even in his name

Format for voting is

Code: Select all

[b]Vote: Person you want to vote[/b]

or

Code: Select all

[vote]Person you want to vote[/vote]

[Vinicius Chaim]

about votes, I know, it wasn't suposed to be serious...
thanks anyway

[Vinicius Chaim]

FoS: neil

trying to make people vote in the IC so soon doesn't seems a good strategy for me

[Vinicius Chaim]

@Yoenit, Vinicius Chaim, and Razgriz:

Thoughts on the game so far, any preliminary suspects?

so man, I posted in the second page, I have a FoS in Neil, cause, IMO, it's not a good idea to make townies lynch the IC so soon, unless you're scum...

[Vinicius Chaim]

I meant that you were trying to make us think like he was scum, so I thought you're trying to lynch him, but, like I said, it's just a FoS

[Vinicius Chaim]

just a question Ups, why are you asking as about our suspicious? are you worried?
(just asking)

[Vinicius Chaim]

correction: asking US*

[Vinicius Chaim]

Couple Q's for all:

1. What is your mafia expeirence (IYHO)
2. How do you feel about transition from RVS to seriousness(IE: How do you think it should be done)?
3. What do you do about people that bandwagon?

1. It's my first game
2. it should be done slowly, with jokes getting fewer and fewer...
3. sorry, what's a bandwagon?

[Vinicius Chaim]

Vinicius Chaim

-

Posted more than yoenit hasn't contributed much(like I said before that is common in noobs) but is atleast trying. I do want to see more reasoning behind post #48:

FoS: neil
trying to make people vote in the IC so soon doesn't seems a good strategy for me

Yes it is true that IC can be scum just as true as they could be town, but ya know that also don't mean they should be lynched just because of the 2/9 chance that they are unless A: a cop proves it, or B: they drop a huge scumtell. Overall Slight town read

well, english is not my native language(I think you've already noticed it), so I can't express myself as I'd like to, but I'll try to explain you
lynching the IC so soon in this game would be very nice for the scums, cause I see that we have at least 2 new players here(me and the guy starting with Y[sorry, forgot your name]) cause killing him would kill a valuable help to new players, maybe confusing them later on and making scums' job easier

[Vinicius Chaim]

so, editing my post

3. I think that he/she may be scum or weak mind players(easy to influenciate)

[Vinicius Chaim]

my native language is portuguese, but I study english since 2007

[Vinicius Chaim]

I'm a little away cause I study half day, sleep more 8 hours, and sometimes, have only two or three free hours, so I cant be here all the time

for the one who asked about quality, it's my first game, I can't do big arguments and analysis without knowing everything(or many things ;p)
in the mean time

neil isn't being that suspicious by now, but another guy is calling my atention,
Yoenit, please, post more

FoS: Yoenit

[Vinicius Chaim]

I'm getting a little confused, specially with neil's analysis, so, I wondered if it wasn't his strategy(if he's scum) to confuse townies(or at least the new ones)(it's starting to work with me, if it's his tactic)
and I have a kind of personal experience reason: I used to play a game just like mafia(with some modifications) with my friends at school, some years ago, and, when I was assassin(a.k.a. scum) I used to get very excited about the game, and that's how he seems to be
many posts, specially the long ones, which need much patience, and only a very excited person would have that patience to post long texts like those so often


VOTE: vote: neil

it's not definitive, I'd really like to see neil changing my mind, and clearer analysis would be good(if you're pro-town)

[Vinicius Chaim]

thanks for answering fast, neil

the second reason I was basing on myself
when I'm excited with something, I have patience to do many things related to the game, but, as I can see, it's not your case(I guess)

and, I understood your point and I trust you(by now)
well, like I said, my vote wasn't definitive, so
UNVOTE: neil
hope you guys don't think I'm scum because of this(starting to think I voted in the wrong person...)

[Vinicius Chaim]

wishy washy or not, my vote was just to make him explain his posts so far, not to kill him, so he did it, and I didn't have any reason to vote him then.

[Vinicius Chaim]

anyway, I don't like yoenit's act's so far, he doesn't even explain why he's not posting or anything else
so, he's now my top scum suspect(now, ahead my top suspect[I think it's not the time to put all my thoughts in the table])
so
VOTE: Yoenit

[Vinicius Chaim]

I have no problem pressuring Yoenit to get him to post, but theres no reason to auto-lynch him. It's still early, and we know that Portuguese is his first language, so he may have been having some trouble keeping current or following some of this. He may also just be very busy.

I think you missed something, the portuguese speakers is me

[Vinicius Chaim]

Sorry to see you go Spadille. Best of luck surviving in the wilderness.

VOTE: unvote Spadille, Vote Vinicius Chaim

Just a placeholder for now, as my vote on Spadille was random and it would be rude to have a replacement enter the game with such a vote on him. Picked VC because he voted on me (screw you argument), was the third voter (scumtell ahoy!) and doesn't seem to have posted much yet.

bandwagon is really scummy, and I knewI'd be accused of it when I voted, but, at least until now, I don't regret my vote, you still are my top suspect so far

[Vinicius Chaim]

yes, that's it, unless you change my mind and make me believe you're not scum(like neil did), I won't change my vote on you
you seem to be trying to make people lynch me, to take their votes out of you, instead of explaining you're townie, and that's scummy

[Vinicius Chaim]

well, it's true my only argument is your inactivity
let's wait, we still have 16 days and I'm sure nothing is over
by now, I'll keep my vote but... let's see what happens when people start posting(maybe this afternoon or tonight)
don't worry about me, I'm sure I am the person you should worry the least

[Vinicius Chaim]

I'm sorry civil, but the scums are confusing me
I said I'd wait till people post more so I could figure out more about who is scum and not and then, vote definitively

[Vinicius Chaim]

Can't really understand what points Chaim is trying to make, I'll reread his posts later, and hopefully get a better understanding of him.

so man, I'll try to make it easier for you
initially, my point was that the only person who had only 1 vote in 3 days was acting like a scum who doesn't want to be accused, staying away from talking. But he saw it wasn't working and started posting, accusing me of bandwagon, which I knew was going to happen and made me think he was more scum than ever, but I said 1 thing that I think you missed
"(...)wait till people post more so I can figure out more about who is scum and not(...)"
and so it happened.
so UNVOTE: Yoenit

"do you mean that yoenit is not scum anymore? that seems scummy" - No, I don't mean it, I'm still suspicious on him, but other people look like more scum than him, like raz and neil, with their discussion, including PERSONAL insults, and now Oli, accusing everybody like a blind-shooter in the middle of the dark...

and, as I can't vote in 3 diferente people, I'll have to wait to place my vote

[Vinicius Chaim]

when I said 1 vote, I meant 1 POST

[Vinicius Chaim]

I really don't want to disappoint everybody just in my first game, so I'm trying my best, but I'm really unconfident, playing in a forum is really harder cause you can't see the player's face and it becomes harder to figure out who is mafia and who is town, I think it's just a experience problem(I hope so)

[Vinicius Chaim]

Vinicius, you're not the only one who's in his first game.

and now Oli, accusing everybody like a blind-shooter in the middle of the dark...

All this tells me is that you don't actually have a way to defend against that argument. Not knowing what a bandwagon is (or saying you don't, though I can't see how doing that would be helpful) and then claiming it to be scummy doesn't add up. I'll put up what the explanation was.

A bandwagon (BW) is when people pile on voting for people very quickly either lynching them or putting them a L-1. In the first few days before there are 6-5 people left a bandwagon is considered 3 people suddenly voting. Then the thrid voter is accused of bandwagoning, especially when the reasoning is poor

Look it over; Razgriz doesn't call it scummy at any point. Later on, you see it as scummy behavior; did you do some research or deduce that? After being accused of bandwagoning you just called it scummy and dismissed the claim; that may turn into WIFOM if I think about it too much, but do you have anything to say about it except "I'm not bandwagoning, in order to lynch you're gonna need a third vote"?

you're right
after I asked, I saw there were many things I didn't know(more than I thought) so I read some articles in the wiki

[Vinicius Chaim]

after reading all this discussion, new thougts crossed my mind
why are you, neil, pushing TOO hard against raz and making "fake"(I don't know what word I write here) quotes to incriminate Raz for nothing(quote if I'm wrong, but I didn't see anything suspicious about him)
Not kidding, I can feel the pression in myself just for reading your posts, and I think raz can't defend himself properly in such a uncomfortable situation, being scum or not
also, I'm starting to think about neil-yoenit being scum partner, but this is just a thought
VOTE: neil

[Vinicius Chaim]

as I said, I didn't know what word to use
it wasn't supposed to mean fake, oposite of true, I didn't know the word

[Vinicius Chaim]

one of the reasons I took was that you already "attacked"(again, vocabulary problem) 3 or more people in this game(silver, Civil and now Raz[maybe I forgot somebody?], maybe starting with me now), are you looking for someone to accuse that other players believe in you, as it didn't happen with you other "suspects"
also, you're being a little agressive, maybe feeling uncomfortable?

[Vinicius Chaim]

sorry neil, could you make a post with raz "scumtells" to help me clear my mind?
thanks

[Vinicius Chaim]

Earlier it was for what I thought was mor eparanioa based off an RVS post. Which reminds me
UNVOTE: neil1113

wait, first he was your #1 scum, with your paranoia thing and accusing him of being scum almost every post you made, now, that guys are looking at me, saying I'm scum and so, you just unvote to try staying out of suspicious?
if it made me look scum, it also makes you look so
UNVOTE: neil

VOTE: Razgriz

[Vinicius Chaim]

well, IMO, spadille wasn't scum, but wasn't that townie either...

raz, how could silver be(in that time) your #1 if the only one I saw was you attacking neil("the paranoia" ;p), if I missed something, I'll re-read some pages when I have time

civil, you must be experienced enough to realize what I'm doing, even if it's being a little wrong, and you voted me just because I wasn't that confident till then?
I think it's not enough, please, explain me

[Vinicius Chaim]

1.)

civil, you must be experienced enough to realize what I'm doing

[b/]

, even if it's being a little wrong,

2.)

and you voted me just because I wasn't that confident till then?

1.) I assure you I have no idea what your are talking about.
2.) I never said that's a reason I was voting you.

1) I didn't mean I was doing something specific, but I thought you were experienced enough to see what is a confused newbie player and a scummy one

raz, how could silver be(in that time) your #1 if the only one I saw was you attacking neil("the paranoia" ;p), if I missed something, I'll re-read some pages when I have time

Right. I don't think you missed something. This is exactly what happened. This behavior from Raz is really scummy. Notice how Vincius doesn't mention this being scummy, or doesn't seem to be moving in the direction of reasoning why this could be scummy? I think that's odd. Vincius also seems to be more accurate and focused in his posting when it comes to Raz. (I'll find more of this later and explain it when I have the time).

I'm more accurate and focused now(I don't think I'm that accurate or focused, but it's your opinion) because:
1) It's my first game, so I didn't have confidence in myself in the beginning, but I'm getting some experience and I think it's normal to get better with time

2) I'm being accused by 3 people, it's not clever to stay quiet, I'm defending myself the best way I can

[Vinicius Chaim]

I forgot
welcome catterpillar

[Vinicius Chaim]

bird, your vote count is wrong, I'm not voting in 2 people at the same time...

Fixed.

[Vinicius Chaim]

be cool raz, there's no need to act like that, man
your question was : "is that a crime?" it sounded to me like you weren't expecting for an answer, so...

firstly neil was your #1(don't say it wasn't...), then, when people starting looking at me just because I was a little confused and made some mistakes, you unvoted to try staying out of suspicious, come on raz, don't act like that...

[Vinicius Chaim]

IDK if it's going to sound scummy, but what can I do?
5 of you say I'm scum, so I see I'm gonna get lynched, so, congratz mafia, 1 down

[Vinicius Chaim]

some analysis from what I read so far(didn't read from the beginning, since we had some useless things there)
well, before starting, what makes you think that me and raz are a scum team? why didn't anybody say something like that with the other people I(IMO) wrongly suspected before? please, neil, civil and silver, quote this and explain

now, the analysis(as I'm gonna try saving my skin and my top suspect is tied with me, it's a Razgriz analysis):

#160:
- Raz accuses silver of doing what he was doing at that moment, bandwagon, maybe trying to put the suspicious out of him

#218 & #297
first(218), he try apologizing with yoenit because of his vote(with lurking reasons), maybe trying to befriend him, getting a townie to his side, then(297) he tries to get a (slip) copclaim from yoenit, maybe to kill him during night

#303
here, he swears he's townie, which, IMO, is scummy...

#324
here's my top point, he makes that whole paranoia argument and, after much conversation, including personal attacks, he simply unvote, to get hidden in the dust...

#330/#347/#386
he states his #1 suspect was silver, then almost swear that he never stated neil was his #1, and later, confess his #1 was actually neil...

#366
he makes an analysis(too colorful, IMO) with 5 town reads and only one scum read, like "vote him, he's the scum, you're my townie friends!"

#383
gets stressed just because I didn't answer a question I didn't see, probably feeling uncomfortable because someone was seriously suspecting on him

*extra point*
making a whole accusation with only one argument, paranoia, and then saw nobody bought his argument, then changed his target(again)

[Vinicius Chaim]

-Chaim chaim chaimmmm chaim of foolsss

well, before starting, what makes you think that me and raz are a scum team? why didn't anybody say something like that with the other people I(IMO) wrongly suspected before? please, neil, civil and silver, quote this and explain

Your interactions with raz have been... interesting...

be cool raz, there's no need to act like that, man
your question was : "is that a crime?" it sounded to me like you weren't expecting for an answer, so...

firstly neil was your #1(don't say it wasn't...), then, when people starting looking at me just because I was a little confused and made some mistakes, you unvoted to try staying out of suspicious, come on raz, don't act like that...

My translation?
There's no need to act like that scum buddy
etc etc.
etc etc.
You unvoted to try staying out of suspcious, come on raz don't act like that scum buddy, let me bus you.

Sure a little ummm ... what's the word... extravagent? no... damn it it's some word that starts with e... Well yeah it's a bit of a stretch, but don't act like that... just came off very strange to me.

damn it =P
it wasn't supposed to mean like that, I was just asking him to calm down(he was starting to be agressive, as you can see in my analysis quote from him) *note to myself: translate everything I write before I post*

say whatever you want but...
what is "let me bus you"?

[Vinicius Chaim]

my gosh, I'm writing too "double sense" posts
my response was terrible, I'm killing myself(even not being scum...) =/

[Vinicius Chaim]

edit last post: too MUCH(...) *

[Vinicius Chaim]

wow, civil suspects me too much that he tried to vote me twice! haha

about #404
I'm learning with you guys, I'm sure if someone else seemed that suspicious to me like raz does, I would do the same

[Vinicius Chaim]

wow, we already had 12 hours with no post except busy ones
hope it doesn't stay till the end of the game

[Vinicius Chaim]

The vote was placed because he analyzed only one person. As I keep saying, ferreting out one scum is helpful, but doesn't end the game. There are two of 'em out there, and if he can only get evidence against one, it shows he's holding back. There are still seven more people he could dissect. A "Top 1" list, in my book, isn't very useful because you're essentially saying "If we get one scum, we win". If he gets reads on others, I'll be inclined to believe that he can be of usefulness to the town. Hell, even if they're against me, it shows he's thinking.

Oli, we can't lynch too people in the same day, so why would I accuse 2 people at the same time? just to get more enemies and die easier during night 1?
and you're falling in your own accusation, I didn't see you point your finger to anyone but me...(correct me if I'm wrong)

[Vinicius Chaim]

I meant TWO* people in the beginning

[Vinicius Chaim]

well Oli, I have two points for you about your frequent ask for my scumhunting, while you're doing nothing about it...

1) I always have a busy week, I only have time to long reads and big posts in the weekend(when I did raz analysis)
2) I had only accused raz till now cause he's the only "very" scum read by now( I have another two slight town read, maybe they get an analysis in this weekend[or not =P]) and I'm not experienced enough to read every "between lines" tells...

[Vinicius Chaim]

in point 2, I meant slight SCUM read

[Vinicius Chaim]

it's almost the 10th post Raz says he's preparing something...

[Vinicius Chaim]

civil-oli argument is getting interesting, I think it's my turn to read and pay atention...

[Vinicius Chaim]

I feel comfortable in my position by now, but this whole thing is making me think twice about some people(I still have 3 suspects, but the only one lefting from before is Raz)

-Never
would you mind explaining your (random) vote on me? I really didn't understand how someone who almost doesn't post suddenly votes for the guy suspected by everybody, putting him in L-2

[Vinicius Chaim]

I didn't see the unvotes, so I thought I was in L-2
I'll re-read and try finding your "evidence" never

[Vinicius Chaim]

nevermind gets a vote and what happens? in 2 hours he writes what he wrote in more than 4 days

[Vinicius Chaim]

raz made a good point up there, and I'm starting to think twice about him...
let's UNVOTE: by now

Olinea, I didn't buy your fast change of mind, are you trying to fly under the radar?(yes, It's the same accusation I did to Raz some pages ago)
FoS: Olinea
I need to put some pressure, as we're 5 days from deadline...

about raz last post
I agree with you, that's looking too scummy to me...
here goes some pressure to him
VOTE: nevermind

[Vinicius Chaim]

I can't believe I'm about to do this.

Unvote: Civil Scum

well, like I said, I didn't buy this one and got my FoS on him...

Then we'd better get crackin'.

I'd like to see reads of

the entire town

from Nevermind, Silverbullet, Chaim, and Catterpillar. Don't try to dodge out of it, like "I don't really know what to think of X or Y or Z". And my BS detector is raging right now, so be honest.

why not from you, too?
or we should say: "only them 4 are the suspects, I'm town!"

Also, Civil, if we were the scum team this would probably be one of the most epic plays ever.

I definately didn't accept this one, you got many scum points in my book...

2. Is it considered bad sportsmanship to hammer yourself if you think it'll help the town? For example, if we're close to the deadline, and I've got 4 votes, would it be a... erm... "dick move" to hammer myself so on Day 2 there'd be a 2/7 chance of finding scum rather than 2/8?

self attacking?
"I'm gonna kill myself, I'm inocent, but I'm tired of being accused"
come on, I can't understand how you'd be townie after all...
UNVOTE: never

VOTE: Olinea

p.s: Silver, you're with 2 votes(on raz and on olinea)
unvote one of them

[Vinicius Chaim]

well never, when I voted you, ya only had 1 vote, and the guy who expressed his suspicious was raz, the same that voted on you, and I agreed with what he said(in other words, he convinced me)
but, just some time later, after reading better, I saw olinea was more suspicious than you

[Vinicius Chaim]

congratz yoenit, you defended your scumpartnet pretty well...

so, Olinea, the 4 guys not voting you are TOWN reads? come on! this seems just like "I think you're town, vote for somebody!"

I think we weren't fighting against good scums, just being blind

[Vinicius Chaim]

Yes I know I put him at L-1. The reason he got scumpoints is because, he has bandwagoned all day, has piggybacked on other reasoning, and hasn't really scumhunted much at all. He just says "I agree" and votes.
Points Gained:
Bandwagoning: +10
Piggybacking: +15
Not much scumhunting: +10
Total: 35

My point list:
Town: 0-6
Slight Town: 7-13
Neutral: 14-20
Slight Scum: 21-27
Scum: 28+

let me try explaining you, guys
1) every bandwagon I joined I had a reason(raz, my biggest post; yoenit, lurking[unvoted soon];Olinea, I already said) but you guys prefer to understand like reason a wall of text, with many words just to say one thing I say in 4 lines...
2)my newbish will kill me, what is piggyback?
3) I can't see evidences everywhere, like more experienced people do, like civil, neil or you. but did you realize, Razgriz, that you hadn't scum hunted much also yet?

[Vinicius Chaim]

you're gonna regret hammering me, cause I'm

Vanilla Doctor

[Vinicius Chaim]

yeh, Raz

[Vinicius Chaim]

and saying that, you made them(or you) kill another townie, so you're gonna lynch me Day-2
not so clever, raz

[Vinicius Chaim]

if you turn town, I think I deserve the lynch D-2 for being blind, but let's see

[Vinicius Chaim]

the suspense is killing me[2]