Newbie 1016 - Trouble in Joestown (Game Over, Mafia Win!)

[Hiraki]

Vote: displaced

Why? You mean Mafia requires reasoning?

Are you all...serious?

Well, I'll give you this

reasoning

.

First "d" is lowercase.

GTFO SCUM.

[Hiraki]

Yo guys, I didn't ask some questions to hear myself speak. XD

Oh right. Questions. I like questions, they're always fun.

1) Is this your first mafia game? If not, give a little background info as to your experience with mafia.
2) What is your favorite alignment?
3) What is your favorite role?

1) No, I've played a couple of games on Scorehero, and it's private site, Mafiahero. Mafiahero is a invision site, so I'm too lazy to link it or anything.

As some of you may have seen, I'm usually known as Raikiri, but again, like you may have seen. Long Story. My alt. is usually Hiraki. I make it obvious that this is my alt. for terms of ultimate irony.

I'm going to guess this is somewhere around my...7th game? I'd have to actually count, but that sounds about right. I think I've only won one game though, unfortunately. I've gotten MVP in some of them, so y'know. I can't be

that

horrible. Or maybe I am, idunnolol. It's also interesting that I've become known good in a small community, because I'm usually

really

aggressive. I hate when people say "lol too aggressive that's scummy". I always like the response, "Well, should we poke the mafia out of their holes?" but that's not really important. I'm getting to far into this question.

I did play some games on here on Raikiri999, so you can go check them out. I replaced out of all of them sadly. I was a wee bit of a n00b back then, and I really had no clue what was going on, even in Newbie Games. I feel like I'm quite better now, so I don't feel as stupid/scared and whatnot.

I also play EM a lot on Hiraki. I have 32ish K there, but that doesn't really count since K doesn't matter. Not to mention that site has been lost to the trolls, no offense IMO. That's all I can think of to answer that question, I'm probably missing one tidbit or two. Oh well.

2) Scum. By far. I like Town, but Town is always so strict. You can't assume anything, while on scum, you don't need to assume. Of course, acting like a townie in the day is a bit hard, but I don't find it terribly impossible. I've never played 3rd Party, so I can't comment on that. I'd like to one day though.

3)That's a toughie. I haven't played many PRs. I'd assume, even though I don't like Town as much as scum, that I'd like to be Bomb/Granny. It sounds like a good role to claim as VT, and it seems like a badass role when scum dies one day. It creates a huge mass of confusion too. That's always fun.

[Hiraki]

EWBOP: Just a bit more stuff I had to say, and something I found curious with your helpful guide, Andrius.

First off, people say that I make big walls. I do. So you'll get a treat if you see one in this game.(Doubtful, the last game I did it had about 20 people, and I was replacing and scum. I needed to gain townie points and give out my opinions. Y'know? My replacement was pretty lurky scummy too, so you get it.)

Second off, this goes more to Andrius' guide. I had one big problem with it.

Do not claim your role until you are at L-1. While it may seem tempting and we might want to lynch you, do not claim your role until L-1.

L-1? Don't you mean L-2? If it's LYLO, scum could quickhammer pretty easily. I mean of course, on a regular day, this wouldn't seem bad, but this is a newbie game and all. With all the responses that I've seen so far, it looks like the majority has never played a game before. I really wouldn't want to lynch someone on the basis that the might've accidentally quickhammered because of voting at the same time, and/or near the same time. It's just something that I caught.

[Hiraki]

DO NOT LIE AS TOWN. Even if you are at L-1. Do not claim Cop when you are not the Cop. have u ever heard of drawing the nk target?

This is true but meh, it's a newbie game. We don't take substantial risks on relying on townies when they could easily be fail town.

From what I've seen, it's more common to claim at L-1 instead, especially since we've only just begun the game. LYLO will, of course, change things a lot. In LYLO, it'll probably be advisable for nobody to vote (since the scum can just pile on and hammer) until roleclaims are over...

Yeah, I guess that is true. But still, I think L-1 is a really bad time to claim. At L-1, in a newbie game, I think someone should automatically take their vote for L-2 for the person to claim, just because. Probably just my opinion though, I'll hold it through, if needed.

[quot="andrew94"]err andrius, you gave me that scum role, that causes me to get lynched

i hate u 4ever = =[/quote] There's a scum role that causes one to get lynched? What do you mean? This is just curious me btw. I've never heard of a scum role like this. Unless you're making a pun or something, which I want to assume. I'd hate to play that role too.

[Hiraki]

L-1? Don't you mean L-2? If it's LYLO, scum could quickhammer pretty easily. I mean of course, on a regular day, this wouldn't seem bad, but this is a newbie game and all. With all the responses that I've seen so far, it looks like the majority has never played a game before. I really wouldn't want to lynch someone on the basis that the might've accidentally quickhammered because of voting at the same time, and/or near the same time. It's just something that I caught.

No, I mean L-1. If someone quick-hammers outside of LyLo then we lynch them for the previous quicklynch.
In LyLo we all be careful.

But that's what I

really

don't like in a Newbie Game. You can't blame a Newbie for accidentally hammering, and you can't tell if this is scum just covering their actions because they are a Newbie. I mean, I really do get what you mean, but I don't think that this is a rule for Newbie Games, rather larger and more experienced games where mistakes have a smaller chance of happening.

Then again, it's your guidelines, so w/e.

There's a scum role that causes one to get lynched? What do you mean? This is just curious me btw. I've never heard of a scum role like this. Unless you're making a pun or something, which I want to assume. I'd hate to play that role too.

No, he just finished a game I moderated. He was a Mafia Goon, who self-hammered D1.

Oh that makes sense. Goons do suck. <___<

[Hiraki]

This is starting to look like math to me. D;

There are no numbers in this thread. What are you talking about.

vote noraaa

cos female? Oo

This is a pitiful RVS vote bro. If you wanted to vote him/her for being a female, you should realize that women don't exist on the internet.

Anyway

1) lynch all liers?
2) lynch all lurkers?

1) Yes. Any contradiction is bad. Especially in logic.

2)No. I believe firmly Lurking is a Null Tell. However, if you're scum and you lurk, you are a douchebag. Just a btw.

More poossssttttttiiiinnnnnngggggg.

[Hiraki]

woman do exist over the internet...

It's a joke. <____<

Vote: Hiraki

Because Kingdom Hearts avatars with pink hair are a clear scumtell. Just saying.

Eh. You could say Lighy Magenta.

Urge..to....OMGUS.

[Hiraki]

Vote: displaced

Why? You mean Mafia requires reasoning?

Are you all...serious?

Well, I'll give you this

reasoning

.

First "d" is lowercase.

GTFO SCUM.

So Hikari, you have voted for me for no reason. Why shouldn't I make a tit for tat response and vote for you? In fact why am I even asking that.

vote Hikari

Mod might be strict and spell name right, but idunnolol.

I have to say this vote is well played, as in of wording.

However, I really don't like the OMGUS. Not to mention, he says evil role, instead of mafia role. Obv. scum there. (Since this is a Newbie Game. /sarcasm)

Anyway, here's the real point in why I really don't see why my vote should be moved. Here's the best point about this. He asks why he should vote me, instead of going for anyone else in the game. That's what I really don't like.

I'm not sure if I should classify this as scummy, or townie. Perhaps displaced is on the defense, and is a noob scum. He did in fact say he had never played as scum, which would make sense if he was noob scum. Of course, this is all assumptions and use of meta. For all I know, he could've played all his games as scum, but again, what do I know.

On the other hand, displaced could be a townie that is defensive. This also would make sense for being defensive, and really contradicts what I just said.

In conclusion, even if displaced has only posted once, I'm

really

not in favor of his actions. If there was someone we could ML, this is the man I think we should do for D1. While defensiveness isn't a scumtell, the way he portrays it, according to me, doesn't seem to be very townie.

However I thank you, displaced, for getting us out of RVS.

I never did like RVS.

[Hiraki]

This is a pitiful RVS vote bro. If you wanted to vote him/her for being a female, you should realize that women don't exist on the internet.

They do, actually.

I'm quite aware of that. It's a Internet meme. Moving on.

Re: andrew94
1) I'm down to lynch all liars, especially in a Newbie Game. There's no role-related reason to lie in here.

There's no role-related reason, but I'd lie for scumhunting.

Ok, new question. For everyone who hasn't played enough to know a favorite role,

which role in this setup would you rather have? (Aka, Doctor, Cop, VT, Mafia (Goon/RB))

. While being Cop is fun, I find it to be very stressful, because you can single-handedly win the game for the town with that role. Doc is easier, but you have to be able to read people very well. I prefer, in Newbie Games, to be VT, because all you need to do is play normally, and attempt to draw the NK (and RB) away from other potential PRs.

According to my EpicMafia mafia skills, I'm pretty good at PR snipCing/tells. Therefore, I'd like to try Doc, since I was RB already. Fun Fact too. When I was Roleblocker, no one suspected me until Massclaim on LYLO, where a scummy dude was actually Town Watcher. Guess you can't win em' all.

Mod might be strict and spell name right, but idunnolol.

Usually, the mod will count it as long as its clear who he's voting. So you guys can be Vote: Andy and he'll know its me.

Just saying. I've seen mods that are that annoying to pester about spelling.

Yes, OMGUS (OhMyGodUSuck) is generally seen as bad, but he's probably just over-reactive/defensive newb. Wanting to mislynch him based on his being defensive isn't exactly a town thing to do. When I first joined here I played defensively, as my gut wasn't tuned to the scum yet. I commented on other people's actions, but didn't actively pursue an agenda.

Meh. I found him a good ML because we could get BW stuff. If he wasn't scum, then scum surely would've been on the wagon/lynch. That's basically why I said ML, rather than lynch. I'm unhappy no one caught that, but w/e.

Speaking of which,

FoS: Hiraki

, because from my experience, it looks as though you're trying to push an easy mislynch on displaced. While I don't have a read on him yet, its not exactly a good way to approach things: picking a candidate for a mislynch. And yes, you did actually call it a mislynch. However, if you're right that he is newb-scum, you have to be town, as no Newb-scum would buss their partner on page 2. XD

It'd be pretty badass to do it though. Can't say that I wouldn't feel bad for my partner though. LOL.

This is petty hard on my iPod. >____>

Therefore, that ends the quote session for today. So here's my little tidbits of interests.

I don't like tj's random secede of Wraith. It annoys me, a lot. Whether or not it's good logic, there's no reason for him to do it. You gets yeh FOS for that.

To make things worse, Wraith is already a scummy dude. First off, Andrew puts up dome good stuff about his recent games, but I'm not using that as a reference point. He said his vote was random. Even though he stated that his vote was because of displaced's overreaction.

So let's end this puppy for now, eh?

At the moment, I'm going to,
UNVOTE: displaced

FoS: displaced, tj84

VOTE: Wraith

Preview Edit: Andrew. I doubt anyone would want to lynch Wraith, and be town, for the reasons that you just added. People can forget games. Not to mention, lol 10 games, you only played 9" is not a scumtell. While it is a form of lying, it's not true lying. tl;dr: Dude, you're trying too hard.

IMO. People in this game are damn scummy. I also wish to add that I want to see more noraa, fullcircle, and and displaced content. More so from the last 2.

[Hiraki]

I wish I was scum. VT gets boring after a while. And I mean a while. I was hoping to pull the wool over newbie eyes and finally win a game as scum but the dice didn't roll by way this time.

And here's our WIFOM.

Displaced was a good ML. Now

this

is a good lynch. Not to mention the total ignorance of my post. Me no likey.

[Hiraki]

hiraki. can u not talk inside other ppl's quotes
also, u said u doubt anyway that is town would lynch wraith, why the heck did you vote him then?
and how i 'trying to hard'

1)I was on my iPod where editing is horrible for forum posts, therefore, when I'm using my iPod, no. There was only one bold in Andrius' post, so I don't believe he could've been that hard to find.

2) I don't understand the part about "u said u doubt" please clarify/make it easier to understand.

3) Because you went back and looked for a single contradiction in his "IC" post. I don't see how/why he needs to say every role he's ever played since he has claimed to play 10 games. Again, like I said before, "lol u played 9 games, not 10" is not a scumtell.

@Wraith: I was assuming that your post about #58 was not toward me, but I must assume nothing. That post doesn't resolve my vote. You sir lied about your "RVS" vote, and I want some explaining.

[Hiraki]

Okay, sequence of events:

1. Introduction post
2. Thought of "genius reasoning" for an RVS vote
3. randomvoted andrew for being the other SE
4. didn't like displaced overreactive OMGUS at all
5. switched votes to displaced
6. totally forgot I had switched votes to displaced
7. unvoted because I thought I was on an overly populated randomwagon

Happy?

No, I am not happy. You forgot the part where you called Post 4 an RVS vote. Therefore, you're scum.

To get this clear how did this wagon on wraith start? From what I saw what happened was Wraith said lynch all Liars. He was pointed out for a "lie". This in itself is not scummy at all he wouldn't intentionally not mention a role hes been. After it seems he may overreacted a bit when Andrew applied some pressure. At first I thought Andrews arguments were scummy and overly aggressive but i realize that he was trying to see wraiths reaction. If this is the case and I'm not sure it is I think Wraith is the most likely to be scum at this point followed closely by displaced.

Yes I agree. However, I doubt that Andrew's was looking for reactions.

The reasoning why Wraith is scum, is that he called a vote on someone RVS, even though it had reasoning, and was a

clear

BW. I can't say I can't see displaced-scum, but I don't like how the wagon started. This is also why I believed that displaced was a really good ML. If he wasn't scum, the people who were BWing, would be a bit obvious, don't you think? If he was Town, there's two confirmed scum on the wagon, and if he's not, then there's scum down. I still wouldn't be opposed to lynch him, to be quite honest. The only problem is, is that Wraith still feels really scummy to me. His responses have been less than adequate, and I'm confident in Wraith-scum.

Again, though, I will agree that Andrew is either trying

way

too hard, or is just playing Noob Scum. Of course at this moment, you have to realize that Andrew is also a SE. While this isn't the best effort to his case, it's not the worst either.

Moving on.

Okay. As I said I would do last night, I looked over everyone's iso/meta (if applicable) and wrote down a general list of personality traits vs. play-as-type traits that I could see offhand from them. So this will help me work out who is what. I'm not sharing it until I have more of a case against someone; right now it's more gut feelings than anything.

Hariki and andrew94 seem the most noticeable for me so far. The OMGUS by displaced could be a newbie overreaction. So far I haven't seen anything from Wraith that would make me want to lynch him; I see no holes in his reasoning (so far).

Hariki, as I stated before, just seems to be trying too hard to seem town. That could be a personality trait, but under his previous account that he used only a couple of months ago (not ages ago like he mentioned), he was very solidly pro-town and very easy to read (until being replaced out). I feel uneasy about him.

First off, there's something terribly wrong with this post. Meta isn't the best idea to use on a D1 Lynch, maybe on LYLO with absolutely no leads, but it's in my personal opinion, that Meta is more like the icing on the top of a cake, rather than the base. I mean, no one likes when you put sprinkles in the middle of a cake, it's not really cool.

To add onto this, that game was almost a year ago now. I've changed my style dramatically since then, if you'd like some games that show off this, I can give you some. Again, I wouldn't like you to base a case off this, and I'd absolutely

hate

it if a townie went on it, assuming that'd you be scum of course, since I find it to be a very lacking piece of evidence in a case on a person. It's also quite annoying on my part, but again, w/e floats your boat.

Anyway, let me explain the Wraith case on more time. I don't think it was that hard to understand, he's basically ignoring it IMO.

Hello all this is my first mafiascum game, but I have played in a few games on a different website. I've very little experience of the various roles and alignments; I have never been given an evil role and only once been given a power role, that of cop, which I have to say was the most fun playing.

Vote: displaced

Why? You mean Mafia requires reasoning?

Are you all...serious?

Well, I'll give you this

reasoning

.

First "d" is lowercase.

GTFO SCUM.

So Hikari, you have voted for me for no reason. Why shouldn't I make a tit for tat response and vote for you? In fact why am I even asking that.

vote Hikari

This is terrible. That was obviously an RVS vote, you are overreacting incredibly. This is one of the few instances I will vote for an overreaction this early, especially because this seems like a serious response.

Unvote Vote: displaced

This is Post #3 from Wraith.

As you can see here, Wraith assumes, and he doesn't really care if displaced is scum. For all he knows, this could be a reaction test. Kudos to displaced if I'm right. I'm doubtful though. Doesn't really matter anyway, moving on.

Yes, lynch all liars. They're either scum or dangerous.

And it wasn't a bandwagon, that was a belated randomvote.

Unvote

This however, is Post #5 from him.

I'd love to know how that was a belated random vote. Because honestly, that doesn't look like a random vote to me. You stated in the post in which you voted him, that, and I quote with bold on the previous post "This is one of the few instances I will vote for an overraction this early, especially because this seems like a serious response". This is in no way a random vote, therefore you lied. Therefore, you're either scum or dangerous. See what I did there? This is why I'm confident in Wraith-scum.

Andrew is a potential scum candidate, but I can't see him being scum if Wraith is scum. Therefore, if Wraith is somehow town, Andrew is most probably scum. To go on further, this might make some sense for Andrew-scum. Andrew had to go back to a previous game to find credibility to Wraith-scum. This seems like a bad effort to try and rid of any potential threats to his scum win. Of course, this is

quite

a risky move, and it's a move I wouldn't expect from a SE. Of course this is also some serious meta, so this is why I'd rather not lynch Andrew today, and rather lynch someone we have some good, concrete evidence on.

I didn't like andrew94's 'nitpicking' although I do believe that in early game nitpicking is necessary to some degree to get things flowing. As for displaced, I'm still waiting for him to respond.

I can't say I didn't find you a bit on the scummy side, but I resent that now. You're mostly neutral for me at the moment, because of this post. While nitpicking isn't necessary, and it really didn't get us out of RVS, it still did get the game flowing like you said. It created leads, and sides.

I'd really like FullCircle, Andrius, and tj84. They're not underfire, and I am aware the game only started a few days ago, but I like to get things going.

[Hiraki]

Let me say something

right now.

On my scumlist, Andrew and Wraith are now equal. I'm really not sure which one is the most probable scum, but both of them are

extraordinarily scummy

.

I've already said why Wraith is scummy, here's the main reasons why Andrew is scummy too now.

First off, his little nitpicking at what games that Wraith has played. I'll get back to this later, but I'd rather list for the time being.

Second off, his little posts about everyone are quite annoying.

While I'll get into this more, at the end of this day, I suggest we lynch Andrew or Wraith. Tomorrow, I really want to lynch the other. I will be

extremely

surprised if neither are scum. Let's start, shall we?

Let's go backwards just because I'm on Page 4, and I don't feel like making another tab for ISO's.

to me it seems you are active lurking

First off, Andrew doesn't say who this is addressed too. I really don't know about you guys, but this could be FullCircle, or TJ. Either/or really.

Second off, Andrew doesn't give a reason why, he just says, "To me you are active lurking". It's D1, we've only gotten past around 3 pages, not to mention half of them were filled with RVS votes by practically everyone, and some RVS tells by Andrius that I haven't really cared about at the moment. I'm pretty sure he set them up for a LYLO situation, so I hope everyone replied to them(I doubt it though).

Right, so that post is already raising Andrew's scummy meter pretty high.

Next, we have Post #75.

Not only does Andrew change his opinions of me basically, and agrees with me.(I'm not going to say buddying because I can see a complete OMGUS reaction after I post this, like he's done before). This is getting on my nerves now.

I didn't like andrew94's 'nitpicking' although I do believe that in early game nitpicking is necessary to some degree to get things flowing. As for displaced, I'm still waiting for him to respond.

do some scumhunting instead of sitting on the fence pls

You mean like, people do that stuff? Like Leiskyrie has to submit something every single post that is somewhat of a scumhunting detail? Like you've done that a lot with your Wraith to make it

quite

convincing. Andrew's scummy meter is getting longer than--

The wagon started because:

1. I made a late randomvote
2. andrew blew a memory mistake waaaay out of proportion

The only reaction fishing andrew did was the lynch all liars question. He nitpicked an early post, which is a major scumtell in my book. Town don't need to look for slip-ups to use against someone, they'll see them clearly enough.

no but your reaction was way out of proportion, which is a major scumtell in andrew's book

Andrew's book?

Well. Does Andrew's book communicate through Andrew? Because you've

never

said anything about reaction-testing Wraith until someone else brought it up. Does Andrew's Book then copy? That's plagiarism bro. (lol look at dis guy makin' stupit jokes)

Not to mention, unless I'm wrong, that didn't seem like a reaction test at all. And if it was, I doubt there was a possible way to "pass" it.

Moving on. Having quite a bit of doubt.

This is now Post #12 of Andrew, the one where he addresses what I ask him.

First off, you're totally missing the point of 2. You just ripped off a chunk of what I said off.

To quote, myself, I doubt anyone would want to lynch Wraith, and be town,

for the reasons that you just added.

Oh look. There's something that makes sense in that. The part you totally ignored. That's what I'm getting at. Not really a scum tell, but I'm annoyed right now. I have a right to be angry, no?

3)SE, IC. Big difference.

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is, is that you went on D1, and found someone scummy, because they forgot to include a role in their opening, please also note that this was an IC Introduction(Or SE, w/e) Post, and that if someone was purposely lying, they'd be pretty low move to do for newbies, not that they'd care or anything.

And here's the end of my post. I need to analyze FullCircle's post, I only skimmed through it, but I liked it.

Andrew is

really

scummy to me now. I'd be quite alright with a lynch for him. However, I still say we lynch Wraith today, Andrew tomorrow, unless something new happens.

Preview Edit:

Wraith: Well no, but I haven't seen a post that addresses that, if you could supply the post, I'd be

quite

happy. If not, you poured out some more good WIFOM.

Andrew: Stop being scummy, if Wraith supplies this post that he speaks of, and/or if I find it myself and decide not to be lazy, I'm expecting a quick lynch. Especially because you were quite lenient with your actions before everyone suspected Wraith, but now, because he's suspected you seem more outward and looking to lynch him fast for an easy kill. I no liek.

@Lieskyrie: Let me explain this one more time.

If all of our lynches are concerned about finding scum, we will find none. If we lynch people who are scummy, and may not be scum, if they flip town, both scum are almost guaranteed to be on the wagon, or at least one. That's why he's not a horrible ML. But like I said, he's not in my favor of lynching at the moment, nor for this day or perhaps the rest of the day.

Right so now here's the part where I look for Wraith's post.

Okay, I see the post you're talking about. But I still don't get what you mean, I've looked at that post hundreds of times trying to figure out what it's trying to mean. Could you explain it then? Please?

[Hiraki]

Hiraki while agree with a lot of the points you made I think you took all of them to the extreme. In my opinion at least those are all fairly mild scumtells and im not comfortable with any lynch right now. I agree Andrews scummy but Im not ready to call him scum yet and i dont think Wraith has done anything to deserve a lynch yet. We have plenty of time. Your last post also was primarily about Andrew and you ended with lynch Wraith. While you still suggested we lynch Andrew and Wraith I dont see why Wraith is more deserving then Andrew of a lynch today.

Could you post what you think is far-fetched? I'd really enjoy it.

[Hiraki]

I want to try and make this clear as possible.

When you go to insulting everyone's logic instead of defending against it,

I get

really

annoyed.

First off, let me also try to make this clear, one last time, even though I doubt it will, and you'll just agree with me. I quote myself, one final time(not exactly right, but not too far)

"Andrew. No one, who is town, will vote for Wraith for the reasons you provided."

Hey guys! Where's the part that makes my vote justifiable, and makes Andrew's dope? "

for the reasons you provided .

"

In your first response you pull a card that makes no real sense, and you act like being lynched on D1 will cause defeat.

Hmmmmm.

Claim. I'm not voting until you claim, but like I said before, I don't want a newbie hammer w/ no claim.

[Hiraki]

Well the only reason that I didn't Unvote was that I wanted him to claim.

Now that you Unvote, I guess I don't find a reason to not vote.

I also don't like the Unvote.

Unvote
Vote: Andrew94

I don't have time to reply to the other posts now, but I will get to them.

[Hiraki]

Well the only reason that I didn't Unvote was that I wanted him to claim.

Now that you Unvote, I guess I don't find a reason to not vote.

I also don't like the Unvote.

Unvote
Vote: Andrew94

I don't have time to reply to the other posts now, but I will get to them.

I unvoted so he wouldnt be hammered

It takes 5 to lynch. He's at L-3 now, IIRC.

[Hiraki]

See? This is why I don't count votes. I'm terrible at it.

Andrew refuses to claim, I can't see him being a PR.

Someone can hammer now. I'm quite satisfied where we are today. Andrew is flagging scum looking for a reason, he hasn't defended against anything against him with reason or logic just "lol u suk"

If possible, I'd like for two things to happen before the hammer though.
-displaced to write something. To note, the last thing he posted was in RVS, which was the only thing, and that's borderline on being replaced. I'm sorry if this offends/annoys the mod, but if he doesn't post before the end of the day, I'd like to request a replacement, therefore if he cares about the game, delay the lynch until he gets replaced.
-Andrius to make a post, hopefully the one he made a post about. I can't think of it being that game changing because he didn't hammer Andrew, but I could it being one for not hammering him. Therefore, I want to see it.

Those are my two wishes before someone hammers, it doesn't matter if they do or don't happen I'd just love for them to happen.

Therefore,

Unvote

For now, to stop quickhamma.

[Hiraki]

EWBOP: Oh right, he was voting Andrew already. That makes me think he thinks that he's scum. Woot.

[Hiraki]

According to Andrew then, displaced should be the last scum.

Someone hammer now?

Wraith: You have no clue how badly it's been making me contemplate suicide.

Anyway, I gave you a chance to claim. Let's dooooooo it

VOTE: Andrew

[Hiraki]

UNVOTE: Andrew

Fine, fine.

My vote is "spiritually" on Andrew. But you all get my point.

I'd like to check TJ's ISO after what Lieksyrie just said. I'll do that later seeing I'm on my iPod and have very limited time.

Also, displaced has less than 24 hours to talk and/or is already being replaced. Pressuring him won't do anything, unless he's actively lurking, then we should just lynch him tomorrow.

Still also waiting on Andrius' post, but again, it's not major but deserves a mention.

Andrew, I was once in High School. Kids talked like this: "hey w(h)ats up?"

You however do not grasp the concept of a noun requiring a verb, in some of your posts, and the concept of Subject-Verb agreement.

While people at your High School may talk

like

that I'm sure they make more sense than you're making in this game.

I'd also recommend making one huge post covering all the topics/stuff that people throw at you in a game. It's quite annoying for me, personally, to see a Triple Post of posts with 5-10 words, when it could be made in one post with 15-30 words.

Also moving on, your "scumhunting" has no valid points, and I'd love an example of this scumhunting used on someone other than Wraith. Because that sir, would show you tunneling.

[Hiraki]

I'm comfortable with my displaced vote until he does something that convinces me otherwise. His lurking isn't helping his case, unless he has a viable excuse.

So, you'd rather lynch someone who OMGUS'd and is lurking--

Hmm. You do bring a good point. Perhaps we lynch him tomorrow. I'm not too adamant about this "If Andrew is not scum, Wraith is" anymore, so I wouldn't be opposed to it. Today seems like a good get rid of Andrew day though, actually a really good day. He used total WIFOM, as I looked back, in his post about it being Page 5 and D1 ending.

Again though, I'm waiting for a displaced replacement and Andrius' post. More so on the first one, like usual.

I forgot who posted it, but I didn't really see anything scummy with TJ. Perhaps you could quote some posts, and direct me to the right direction?

[Hiraki]

All of the logic/scumhunting that Andrew has done had been done by someone else. The only thing excluded by it is his logic on me he decides to say now. Not only is it OMGUSy, it's a flat out lie. Not everyone agrees with my logic/wants.

I'm done with Andrew. I will be too surprised of he's not scum, because he's scummy as hell. Someone better end this.
VOTE: Andrew

I can wait for Andrius' post tomorrow.

[Hiraki]

o yea, fullcircle/noraaa is prob the other scum

preview edit: why would i lie when i dead = =


(i checked tj94 night0 and hes scum) so lynch him 2 morrow

Scum would've killed N0. Not to mention, I lie after I'm lynched all the time.

Intense WIFOM. If I didn't hammer, then someone do it. Like now.

[Hiraki]

EWBOP: He gave 2 FoS' after getting a guilty. He's not cop.

[Hiraki]

o yea, fullcircle/noraaa is prob the other scum

preview edit: why would i lie when i dead = =


(i checked tj94 night0 and hes scum) so lynch him 2 morrow

Scum would've killed N0. Not to mention, I lie after I'm lynched all the time.

Intense WIFOM. If I didn't hammer, then someone do it. Like now.

I hammerred you really are bad at keeping track of that stuff

This is why I don't do votals.

[Hiraki]

it still doesnt matter, when i flip cop, your as good as dead

Even if you couldnt have done an investigation

Before you claim a report again, note that the rules even say that this game has a day start. Andrew is either borderline troll, or scum. I think the latter.

[Hiraki]

If you are cop/town, I'm not listening to your suspiscions. Just a btw.

[Hiraki]

Doc doesn't claim btw. I'll have a more detailed post later.

[Hiraki]

Also, scum

were

definitely on the andrew wagon. Possibly

both

. I told you it was a stupid wagon, and now we have almost zilch to analyze.

Obv. scum.

Anyway, like I said yesterday, I'm not confident in andrew's reads anyway. He may be confirmed town, but that doesn't mean that he's confirming to see town.

I have 3 Viable Lynches for today, I think. I'll have to go look and see if I have another person that also qualifies.

Also, no. It was not a stupid wagon. When you have a cop that claims a guilty, this person is either fail-town or terribly n00b scum. My opinion? We had a ML, we used it on the right person.

First off, let's look at my primary FoS for today.

Leiskyrie.

At first, this post comes to mind why she may be scummy.

I haven't been posting long messages because I don't have any huge overriding suspicions on anyone at the moment. This was my take on the whole andrews/Wraith thing that has been going on:

1) andrews points out Wraith's BWing
2) Wraith unvotes, which to me was extremely strange. However, after I read his response, I think that he could possibly have forgotten about his vote on displaced...
3) I do not like andrews' nitpicking at all, which I mentioned before. I honestly do not see how Wraith failing to mention his role in one of the many games he played could possibly mean that he is a liar and thus should be lynched. In fact, I don't even think that 'lynch all liars' always applies. I know this is a newbie games where there will most likely not be any gambits, but sometimes scumhunting does entail some degree of 'lying'. I honestly believe that andrews is overdoing it.

That being said, I still don't get Wraith's implied claim

I wish I was scum. VT gets boring after a while. And I mean a while. I was hoping to pull the wool over newbie eyes and finally win a game as scum but the dice didn't roll by way this time.

This most certainly does not sound like something a townie would say...

As for Hiraki, how would a displaced lynch be any good? You say that there would be two confirmed scum on the BW if he flips town, but that doesn't even make sense. If we were pushing for a displaced lynch then maybe, but so far you seem to be the only person to even suggest that he's a good lynch.

So far, I'm still getting slight scumreads from andews/wraith and mixed feeings from Hiraki. Of course, some people haven't really been posting so I am still waiting for more development.

Let's analyze, shall we?

1) His/Her part about what a Townie

would

say.

In my eyes, this doesn't seem suspicious to me. It just seems like something someone would say, and not really care about what they were saying because everyone attacking them made very small, and stupid points. While I can't remember the case on Wraith clearly, I believe that was the most adamant point, IIRC Andrew's nitpicking.

2)"If we were pushing for a displaced lynch then maybe, but so far you seem to be the only person to even suggest that he's a good lynch."

This seems

slightly suspicious.

Didn't Leiskyrie BWingly vote Displaced? Isn't that trying to push a lynch, in some way, shape or form? Did displaced ever post after that? Hmmzorz.

I don't want to suggest any scum tactics, but something seems like buddying.

displaced/JennyFan don't have enough evidence to pull any conclusions about either one's roles.

Let's get off that topic and talk more Leiskyrie, we all agree on this?

Meh, other than that there's not much to go on about Leiskyrie. Most of his/her posts are fluff, and they're extremely short. It's a bit annoying. Let's move on though, before making any conclusions.

I want to check TJ now, just because Leiskyrie mentioned his total contradiction. I wouldn't mind lynching Leiskyrie, just to see if TJ is scum, of course this is a statement before I start. I doubt in the post that Leiskyrie made that he would be bussing his partner like that when absolutely no one noticed, maybe Andrew did, but again, no one should look/depend on his reads. I don't trust them at all.

And an IC who is lurking is probably scum, let me tell you right now.

I find this a bit suspicious for you to be pointing out because I think your an IC and your very active. Its almost as if subliminally saying if i were scum Id be lurking. Might be a bit of a reach but this dosnt sit right with me

I found this a quite funny. You could say that Andrius is lurking. Hmmzorz. We'll do him next. Moving on.

Yeah no, I don't see anything with TJ contradicting himself. If you can find it, Leiskyrie, I'd be happy to review it.

Unfortunately, I can't continue my work here at this moment. I'll finish this later, but you all should know what I'm thinking mostly.

[Hiraki]

Can you provide the posts where TJ contradicts himself? I'd like the entire post please, with a link to it. Not just a quote. I haven't seen anything monumental for anyone to call him scum, excluding Andrew's FoS, which I didn't see any real reasoning to, except that it was based a bit on your suspicions. I could be totally wrong, but that's what my head is telling me is right. You can correct me if I'm wrong about that too.

[Hiraki]

When I said Wraith was scum, it was a pun on grammar. He used a plural, were, and said that possibly both scum were on the wagon.

Going on, I don't see your point in FoSing 2 people and voting one. I get what you mean that there's 2 scum, but I don't see why I can't be suspicious of two. That's more narrowing down the last scum, rather than lol im FoSin 3 peeps even though there's two scum. I don't really FoS anyway, but I find that a bit odd, more than true.

I didn't have enough time to finish that wall, so the only main suspect I have for now is Lieskyrie.

[Hiraki]

Oh, and to answer Hiraki, the 'contradictory' part of tj94 to me is his ISO 5 and 6. In 5, he agrees with andrew94 being scummy (well, takes a rather uncertain stance) and then in 6, proceeds to defend him. I interpreted it as this- if andrew94 had flipped scum, then it can be seen as somebody defending a scumbuddy without outright saying 'You're wrong!' to people who found him scummy. In other words, a rather subtle means of persuasion. I did say, after andrew claimed cop, that I would be re-evaluating everything and after that occurred, I am slightly less suspicious. One of the main reasons why I am still slightly suspicious is because of what Andrius had mentioned- the convenient times at which the two of you voted and hammered. That's all.

I saw it as a stance of, I'm probably not sure, but I'm leaning toward scum. However, I do agree with you it's a bit odd. I don't see it

that

scummy to constitute a lynch, especially seeing that no one voted or took a stance toward trying to get rid of Andrew after that post. The only two posts between those two posts was one by me, and Wraith. Wraith posting to clarify my post about him, and me responding to TJ's initial post. tl;dr: This doesn't seem too scummy, and it could be considered over-reacting on Leiskyrie's part. But that's if you want to be critical.

Oh, and could you please stop saying that my posts are extremely short? Non-walls-of-text =/= short. Additionally, non-walls-of-text =/= fluff. Thanks.

I'm quite aware of the difference between a fluff post, and a post that is short, but contains a lot of information.

However. I doubt you can deny that these posts are fluff, at least all of them.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2538091

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2539153

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2552841

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2542153

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2541773 (This seems more random then Fluff, to note)

Note that Liekskyrie has 21 posts, and I could quote 5. That's bad fluff for you.

If you'd like a better description of what I'd like out of you, I'd like more posts with content.

Moving on, and feeling worse.

FullCircle has a total of 10 posts. Oh boy.

From just skimming however, FullCircle seems to offer a lot of content, which is good. I still don't like 9 but w/e. So let's start.

Leiskyrie worries me, just a tiny bit. Although he's certainly more active than I am, his posts have all been kept short and to the point, which could point to a mafia trying to avoid giving themselves away or simply someone without a whole lot of time or any big suspicions as of yet.

This is a good point. Leiskyrie also FoS'd TJ for this same point, I want to check back on this, I'll be back for this.

Yeah so I lied. I don't really see anything bad about FullCircle. I basically said 3 because I assumed since I didn't hear a lot from him, that he'd be a viable lynch. I like his points, now that I read them now. If he's scum, he's doing a good job.

Noraaa is also the same thing, to confess, but I think I've found more things odd about her/him then.

After a skim, he only has 15 posts, but that's not

too

bad. For comparison's sake, Andrius has the same amount of posts, and I think he's the least active. Erk.

First off, Noraaa's posts are more fluffier and off-topic than Leiskyrie's. Meh.

She/He calls me that I'm trying to be town too hard. Granted since this is your first game, but if you lynch the people who are the most town, you'll just find townies. At least 99.999% of the time.

He then proves me wrong as I thought my last game here was in January/March. Touche. I still don't like Meta, but good job. I guess.

I like Hiraki a lot more after post 86. You finally felt real. Before it felt like you had a fake persona on and I didn't like that at all.

May I ask why?

I wouldn't believe him if he -did- claim, because every game I've seen of him he's been scum that fakeclaimed doctor just before being lynched. Soooo yeah.

And here's where I hate Meta more. First off, this assumes that Andrew, every game, is scum, whatever he claims. I should've picked this up before, but this is like a mind blowing statement. While I agree that I

probably

would've still voted Andrew if he claimed Cop, I do have to say that the reasoning for this is not because he always claimed Doctor in his last games, and he was scum in those games. This actually really aggravates me.

Also, Noraaa. I've looked at Andrew's old games. I don't know about you guys, but Andrew has played quite differently then what I've seen in Newbie 999, and Newbie 960. Just me?

At this point, I'm changing my view. We want to lynch Noraaa(I want her more than Liekskyrie, now that I think about it, but either/or) or a Liekskyrie lynch today.

Also, TJ's hammer is not scummy. In fact, I was about to hammer him as well, if he didn't unvote. If anyone should be scummy at the moment, it should be me for not realizing the vote counts. That's an easy n00b-scum tell. I'm a bit scared that no one picked up on something like that. Andrew was a good lynch of course, so I would've had no concern if I hammered him, but you know. W/e.

[Hiraki]

No, I do not believe that short posts of me expressing my opinions (and using it as a way of organizing thoughts) constitute as fluff. Fluff contains no content. I do not believe that me saying to not quickhammer or explain how I voted displaced in anticipation of his response in short posts = fluff. Especially since you went and said I was BW'ing displaced today when I already explained that I wanted to see his response during D1.

Correct, I was wrong. I forgot/didn't see your post. My mistake.

However, your posts are fluff. When I say, "Andrius is an IC." and end a post, then I say that the post is quite fluffy. There's no content. It's fluff. That's the end of it.

And note: I AM NOT HERE TO PLAY ACCORDING TO WHAT YOU WANT TO GET OUT OF ME.

Now, moving on. There is no problem with the fact that tj94 hammered. It's that he hammered too early (and what worries me most- was susceptible to your suggestion too easily."

I'm done with Andrew. I will be too surprised of he's not scum, because he's scummy as hell. Someone better end this.

(from Hiraki)

And then tj94 hammers. Just like that. Don't say that's not scummy because hammering without any more potential discussion could be. And yes, I've looked at tj's post and agree with some of his reasons- however, I do not believe in rushing into arbitrary lynches. However, you [Hiraki] appear to have no qualms about doing so.

Because we needed to discuss what? Discussion with no point leads to finding a new target. While, in this case, the target may have been better, for the usual game, it's usually not. This is one of the first times where I saw that. Also, I would like to know how it is scummy. I don't see how it is.

I wouldn't mind lynching Leiskyrie, just to see if TJ is scum

from Hiraki. What kind of logic is that? Town should not use lynches to see "hm, I'll lynch this person to see if the person they suspect is scum. Oh, if it's a waste of a lynch, ho hum." When you talked about lynching displaced, this was my concern as well since you were saying that he's the best mislynch. The point is that TOWN DOES NOT WANT MISLYNCHES.

...

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think you know the true definition of Mislynch.

Mislynching is where a game has a lynch, and isn't in danger of a scum win. D1 and D2 of Newbie games are both mislynches. I hope that clears somethings up quite easily.

By the way, Hiraki, check your facts.

I

never

FoS'ed tj94. Please refrain from making things up.

I've never FoS'd you, but I'm quite suspicious of you and noraaa. Do you disagree? While yes, I did saw you FoS'd, it's quite obvious you were suspicious of him. Just because I said FoS, doesn't mean I totally made everything up.

Just putting it out there. I'll do more once I get home from school:

Top suspects: Hiraki, TJ, JennyFan

@mod: Displaced should be JennyFan on the votelist

Fixed your tag for ya.

Not sure what to think of this. I'm a bit annoyed that I'm on it, obv.

Unvote

For now, to stop quickhamma.

Hiraki first wanted to stop from hammering, but on the next page has no problem with quickhammer. Seems scummy to me.
FoS: Hiraki

...

The next page?

Can we take a peak at this?

Here's the post that everyone is talking about.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2542435

First off. I unvoted for Andrius and TJ to talk more. TJ obv. talked more. Andrius, didn't but I expected that. I'll say that it was my fault that I didn't let him post before the day ended. I didn't really care by then though. Here's what really set me off.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2543472

As you can see in my vote post, I was getting quite annoyed of Andrew's logic and reasoning. He was using other people's logic, insulting people, and more. He was being quite the noob scum. Therefore, I didn't see a point, because like I said before that usually goes into trying to lynch someone else etc. etc., and I voted him.

I will agree though. TJ's hammer kind of looks suspicious, but you have to remember that one person is going to hammer, whether or not it looks scummy or not.

Also, I think, too lazy to quote anymore really, that Andrius said that TJ's post was suspicious because it was 10 minutes after my vote. I don't see that being an actual scumtell, because you know. He could've had to go somewhere or something. There are too many complications for that to be 100% sure that something is fishy with the timing.

Vote: Hiraki

Forgot to do this last night.

Quite displeased. Can you make a list of your case so we can have a more orderly discussion about this? It'd make me happy, and you like happy me. Don't you?

tl;dr I dislike Leiskyrie and JennyFan. Lurking suspicion that I forgot to comment on Noraaa's post, but if I did, I'll do it later. Not enough time now, sorry.

[Hiraki]

I dont like how Hiraki is trying to dictate all the lynches many in advance. Day 1 he said something like lynch wraith and then if hes not scum lynch andrew one of them is definitely scum. Today he said lynch Leiskyrie and if hes not scum lynch me because im scum. Yesterday it was also him who suggested some hammer. I did hammer but his calling for it made me think twice.

Wraith defended himself quite nicely. That's why he wasn't scum for the reasoning back then. Also, it just seems odd for me, that it seems TJ is referencing this post, just because he's in it, and a candidate to be lynched tomorrow, if my reasoning is correct, and people go along with me, which he's trying to go against.

Hmm.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think you know the true definition of Mislynch.

Mislynching is where a game has a lynch, and isn't in danger of a scum win. D1 and D2 of Newbie games are both mislynches. I hope that clears somethings up quite easily.

X

No. That is not what mislynch means. If it were, the term MYLO would not exist.

Oh. Hmmm.

Guess I should look up my terminology then. I feel like an idiot.

I've never FoS'd you, but I'm quite suspicious of you and noraaa.

Yesterday

First off, let's look at my primary FoS for today.

Leiskyrie.

I don't have time right now to type very much. Will have to wait until later tonight.

...

Not bolded.

Erk. Etc.

Right so back to Noraaa's post before Liekskyrie makes a more organized case on me/wall attack etc.

Hiraki- My posts have not been fluff, my posts have been me describing who I was concerned about, with examples. And as to your "may I ask why?" comment, it's a gut feeling that I explained in that very quote.

No you didn't. You just said why. I was asking what made you change your mind. It seemed like you put technical words into a sentence to make your views look more convincing because you didn't like me D1.

I don't care if you hate meta. I explained already that I haven't many tools at my disposal. And if you read andrew's games and didn't see him playing like shit in all of them then I'd like to see what kind of glasses you're wearing. He's not always scum in every game, no. But in the ones where he is, he often fakeclaims. In the ones where he is AND isn't scum, he plays so ridiculously that it's rather impossible to determine his usefulness. Which, by your own vote, you agreed with.

True, but my vote was placed because he was Anti-Town. I didn't vote him because I looked at his past games and determined that because he played the same, he must be scum. Even Andrius, in what seems to be a SE Helping Post, comments on Meta. And I quote,

Meta is useful. However, it is a tool you use in congunction with other tools. You cannot make a cake with only a spoon. Likewise, you cannot expect to lynch scum with only meta.

But we're done with andrew. If you honestly feel that there was nothing in his meta that looked weird, then I'm again looking to you. It's not an OMGUS, because I don't care if you suspect me. I care that you ignore andrew's gaming and my obvious scumhunting as a way to determine I'm the target.

Your obvious scumhunting? What significant things have you given to the town? In fact, in my ISO of you, you only really have 2 big parts in this game. One was a useless arguement with Andrew which determined that you use meta, as you had already stated, and posts on your feelings. That's it. While sure, you figured out that Andrew lied, which we had already done, you have been

quite

useless to the town.

FOS- Hiraki.

(b"b)

[Hiraki]

Prod: FullCircle

Unless I'm mistaken, his last post is in D1.

[Hiraki]

@ Hiraki-I didn't realize that researching people that seemed scummy and trying to show why I felt they were wasn't scumhunting in your book. Maybe I should just attack everyone like you do, Hiraki. One of us is bound to be scum, and then you can feel safe knowing you mentioned our name at least once.

Obviously one of us is bound to be scum. That's the point of the game. /lolasshole

No, it's not the reason that you didn't scumhunt anyone, it's the reason that you said you were scumhunting, and you weren't at all. To move on, to the town's help, you've done nothing, so if you're going to vote me for basically accusing you in a manner that you seem to dislike and seem is scummy, I can't say that I don't think that's one of the worst votes I've ever seen.

Also "you want me to be happy, don't you?"

Personally, and I'm not Lieskyrie, but I don't give a damn if you're happy.

Just to say, making people aggravated makes them give out crappy logic. Therefore, in mafia, it's generally better for one not to be in a crappy mood because they come off as scum more.

I agree with tj that you seem to be trying to act like a leader, but the thing is, I don't agree with you and you're not leading me anywhere.

Okay. So, you think I'm leading people, but you're not following, TJ isn't following, at least since he knows my conspiracy of being a leader now, and Liekskyrie for sure isn't following. That's 3/7 people that won't follow me. Andrius is a SE, he knows better than to follow crappy logic, except if he's scum, and JennyFan doesn't like me. I think she'll change deciding on her next posts though. Y'know.

Your basis that Lie is scum is "fluffy posting" and that mine is "talks meta." Wow, what great reasons to lynch someone.

Really? My walls have given you only that? Perhaps I should make them longer, or shorter. You choose. /lolassholepart2

I've already mentioned why I had used meta, if you have any other pointers for me (a newbie), why don't you share them. I can only go by analyzing what I see, and gut feelings. Which is pretty much how this game works, right?

Gut feelings? Here's my advice. You should try to lurk for at least an hour on the Wiki, look at some people's profiles, check their win/loss precentage, see what they say, and just watch some games. You can't come in here and expect to be a pro just with logic, you have to have experience, or see experience in action, per se.

Here's an idea, let's "mislynch" you and see how badly it hurts town. I don't think it will, because I'm beginning to reaffirm my previous beliefs that you are not town. Just a very loud piece of scum.

With great reasoning, to be noted. Again, I feel stupid for being wrong for almost a year now about Mislynch. You can point and laugh.

You wanted to know why that one post made you seem more town to me? Because you acted more town. Usually you act a little too full of yourself and like we're all idiots that you need to direct in the right way. I for one, don't like it and don't feel that is beneficial to the town in any way.

I'd like some reasoning why you think this, because I really don't think anyone here is an idiot. Sure, some people I call "fail" may be doing things that I consider to be fail. Fail =/= Idiot. People make mistakes, I make mistakes. Fail is just an adjective on the scale and/or an opinion on how badly an action by a town is by. Not to mention, being rash is more of a towntell then a scumtell, but I could see someone saying it's null. Depends on the person.

--

Separately, I'm curious about more input from the quieter people. I can't really feel out any scum/town reads on them if they don't post.

Agreed. This is basically why I'm not voting, to be quite honest. I'd like some posts from FC(or his/her replacement), and JennyFan, the most.

For now, and I'll stick with this D2 unless anything substantial changes, VOTE: Hiraki

Welp.

@Wraith(Because I am lazy): Thanks for the heads-up. >____> inb4modraeg

[Hiraki]

(BTW, I'm an IC, not a SE.)

Same difference. <_______<

I'm not opposed to a Hiraki lynch, as he's definitely not a towny-townie. BUT, we should begin looking for possible scumbuddies for all suspects. Let's say Hiraki is scum. We need to start looking for his scumbuddy now, so we narrow out the field. I think that the #1 scumbuddy for Hiraki would be Fullcircle. Its partially gut, but FC has been avoiding the thread for most of D2 (IIRC).

I asked for a prod. Do you honestly think I'm more anti-town then someone like Noraaa, or even yourself?

1) Hiraki is a mediocre scumread, though I'm not ready to vote yet.

Seems like you're pretty damn sure. Not gonna lie.

2) I'm 80% sure that the last scum is either in the lurkers (Jenny/FC) or the Active lurkers.

I was thinking this. Jenny is my favorable target. FC doesn't seem as bad as a townie as Jenny seems already.

Here's my suspects.

1)Noraaa
2)Jenny
3)TJ

I'm not really sure of Wraith and Andrius because of obvious reasons, but I can see Town Lieskryie. He defended

quite

nicely. If you get what I mean. If not, I don't really know what to say to you. As Noraaa even said, Fluffy posts aren't enough to constitute a lynch. I wanted Lieskyrie to talk a bit more, that's all. I actually suspected Noraaa more.

TJ gets back on the list for his last post, and my look again at him. I don't like his posts now-a-days. FC seemed more townie then scum, but he is lurking so I'm not sure.

With that being said, I feel confident in Noraaa-scum now that I think about it more.
VOTE: Noraaa

[Hiraki]

Unvote: Hikari

I thought Hikari was at L-2. Don't want to hammer too soon, now do we?

It'd be nice of you to comment on my actions, rather then make your vote look like a newbie scum BW.

I dunno if that's just me but y'know.

Mod: Wraith has never voted for me, to my records.

Noraaa also avoided my points, and is just calling me scum now.

I don't know which is scummier.

Also yay FC is back.

[Hiraki]

Okay, I honestly don't think I need to post a huge wall against Hiraki because much of what I wanted to say has already been said in my previous posts. I'll just point out some contradictions that he has made over the course of the two (game) days.

Yes, OMGUS (OhMyGodUSuck) is generally seen as bad, but he's probably just over-reactive/defensive newb. Wanting to mislynch him based on his being defensive isn't exactly a town thing to do. When I first joined here I played defensively, as my gut wasn't tuned to the scum yet. I commented on other people's actions, but didn't actively pursue an agenda.

Meh. I found him a good ML because we could get BW stuff. If he wasn't scum, then scum surely would've been on the wagon/lynch. That's basically why I said ML, rather than lynch. I'm unhappy no one caught that, but w/e.

So, to clarify, Hiraki says displaced was a good mislynch, rather than a good lynch. Given the definition of mislynch Hiraki provided, this wouldn't make sense. I am finding it difficult to believe that he is actually telling the truth about not knowing what a mislynch is because it really does not require much logic to figure out. Especially after having played for so long...

What? How does it not make sense?

As I say in other posts, a ML, as I thought it was, would be a lynch that was on a day that was not LYLO, and therefore it was okay to lynch a Townie. Because Displaced was both scummy, and newbie, this would be a good ML. Again, this is because he could be scum, and if he's not scum, at the least, one scum would be on his BW.

Next, once again about Hiraki calling some of my posts fluff. I know that I've already posted about this, but there is one more thing I would like to say. One of my quotes that he linked to and called fluff was actually what he used in D1 to say that it made me neutral to him whereas I was somewhat suspicious before. Obviously then, this was not fluff.

True, but put it this way. D1's beliefs were in D1. It's D2 now. That's a big change. Let's also note that you had more posts. Just because I picked one from the bunch that I may have said was townie in the past, doesn't mean that I'm obv. contradicting because it put me off the fence there. I don't like it now, and that's final. Not to mention, so far you've been able to counter a whooping

1

post from not being fluffy. The others? Nadda.

Also to add on, you did say that no one was pushing for a displaced lynch but you still did vote for him. c wut i did thur?

Hiraki, you've been trying incredibly hard D2 to push lynches without providing truly substantial reasons. That, coupled with your attitude about mislynches for town, is why I voted for you.

See, this is what I like about Lieksyrie. He knows how to make me a bit happy. However, he saddens me at the same time. The only reason you're voting me, is because I'm scumhunting. You can't find anyone but me, because I'm trying. Go ahead, call it intense WIFOM, but it's the truth. Not to mention, my attitude for mislynches, as I say it, not as the real definition says it, makes a lot of sense to lynch scummy people who may just be overdefensive. The only reason I abandoned the Displaced lynch was because he disappeared, and Andrew came on the rise with Wraith.

I like the other points, I don't want to comment on them. Moving on.

I did; I commented on them in the previous post.

This is true. My apologies.

Okay, I'm not going to quote your post because I'm lazy.

First off, whether or not this was a fast change of thinking, it was a page. I changed my thoughts. If you're honestly going to vote me on one post that changes thoughts after Andrew posts, then I sigh. Not to mention, this seems like a total BW, not gonna lie. It's worse then Noraaa, well at least before her last post.

Your FoS on TJ is non-applicable. I think that's just a bad attempt at Vote One Scummy Guy, FoS For Tomorrow. Could be wrong though, I say we don't care about it for the moment.

Whee. Moving on.

Hiraki I don't "avoid your points." You ignore that I reply to them. I've said what I need to say, if you want specific answers from me that you feel you aren't getting then then ask them. I'm done bickering with you. You just turn anything people say in circles anyhow.

Tonight and tomorrow I'll be looking at the other players and I'll say who/why I think they're scummy. Like I did day one. Like Hiraki says I never did.

Nope, I feel better in Jenny/Noraaa scum.

First off, you can't say that I don't avoid your points. I've quoted almost every, if not every, post in this thread by a player. The reason that you're just not spitting out information because I cause you to become angry and I find you scummy is by-far quite Anti-Town. The reason that I find you scummy and you won't talk to me anymore is more like a butthurt scum.

Also, you didn't. Because I have your ISO open on the next tab. The only real FoSy post in D1 that you have in D1 is Post 6. That's not near the end of D1, and you don't speak about any of the players, excluding Andrew, ever again until the end of the day. Also, I never said you didn't either, you can go check/lie about that too. Also, you did totally miss my post on your post, so that's why I believe you're avoiding my points.

Yes sir, you did just piss me off.

[Hiraki]

Not to mention, so far you've been able to counter a whooping

1

post from not being fluffy. The others? Nadda.

Also to add on, you did say that no one was pushing for a displaced lynch but you still did vote for him. c wut i did thur?

Clearly you did not read my previous posts. I had 1) already discussed my 'fluff' posts and 2) explained the reason for my displaced vote (which was not to lynch.) READ BEFORE POSTING KTHXBAI.

1) The only thing about your fluff posts that you said was that they weren't fluffy because they weren't walls of text, and that little tidbits of views weren't fluff posts. This is a repetition of what Noraaa is doing. You're not telling me

why

they're not fluffy, just they're not fluffy. I can tell you that I'm not scum, but you still obviously think I'm scum.

2)Really? So now because no one was going for it, one more vote will

really

push the information out of him. I hadn't asked about it before, but I believe your reasoning for the vote is crap.

3)Oh wait. You didn't comment on the entire post, just this little part, that has little meaning, and makes me seem like an asshole. I'm looking back at my views again. Something doesn't feel right now.

[Hiraki]

Why did I not comment on your entire post? For one thing, it's late. I'm tired. I would much rather wait until I have a clear head before making any disputes. It is not benefical to myself or anyone if I try to do things without being in a state in which I can properly express my thoughts. Also, half your post is Jenny/noraaa. I've already covered my opinions on them.

I'm not commenting on the first part because I believe no one is budging. I find it to be a useless argument.

It just seemed when you said "KTHXBAI" you were being arrogant in that, that's the only thing you wanted to post, and you wanted to ignore the entirety of your part of the post. If you said something like, "I'll get to your post tomorrow", I probably wouldn't be annoyed or anything.

[Hiraki]

EWBOP:

Liekskyrie, because I think you are town at fault, I ask you this.

Compare the cases that Jenny has on me, that noraaa has on me, and yours, and see what you get. I doubt you don't think something is already fishy, but I want you do it. Just so I don't seem stupid.

FC still needs to make his content ridden post.

I'd like to hear more from Andrius and Wraith as well. If you don't mind.

Prod: TJ94

His last post was on the Sixth.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki- I've told you before, I'm a girl. So stop acting like you don't know that. It's next to my avatar, if you are that short-sighted. The only thing that annoys me about you is your decision to act like you run this thread. You don't make me angry, sorry to disappoint you. And again, I DON'T CARE if you like me or if you're happy. I really don't give a crap. You're obnoxious and I think you're scum.

Sorry, like I've said before, my posts are not made to make people angry. They're made to get straight to the point.

Second of all, sorry I can forgot what gender you are. This is one of the smallest points, and you're the one ignoring my points now. If you could have the decency of responding to my points fairly, I wouldn't call you scum. But here we are, where you're calling me scum, for avoiding your points, which I've already discussed that I haven't, and for being an ass. Two

huge

scumtells. Also your "distrusted from the beginning" is crap because you said that I felt like Town in one post. Even if I doubted why, you defended against the reasoning why you thought I was town there, but not anymore.

My god Noraaa is scummy.

Moving on.

Prod: Andrius, Wraith, JennyFan(Technically it's 2 Days and ~12 Hours, your choice, I doubt she'll post in the next 12 hours)

If there's Lurking Scum, I'll rage.

[Hiraki]

This post is dedicated to Hiraki. Rejoice, rejoice, rejoice.

Rejocing.

In one post. IN ONE POST I felt you were "finally" seeming somewhat town. And then, you opened your mouth again and it all went away.

Seems so.

I didn't say you were avoiding my points, I said you were ignoring them. Semantics to some, perhaps. I find it hard to break down your posts and their ridiculous lack of clarity so I honestly just blow off replying to them. Tomorrow if I have time I'll devote my posting just to you. Let your little heart flutter.

Clarity? This is the first time you've brought this up. Perhaps if you brought this up the first time I did it, I'd change my ways. Now? Ha.

--edit before posting--

No, I'll do it now so you don't have anything to say about me not getting to it. I've got homework that will take precedence over this tomorrow. All posts listed are ISO posts.

I wouldn't have said it because you said you would do it. Ignoring my points is something I expect a player to do.

post 29- Lie/displaced buddying based on a RVS vote and displaced never posting again is ridiculous

again, Lie is not fluffy poster and neither am I. fluff is elevator talk. Both of us are contributing to this thread (just not up to your majesty's standards)

No. Fluff are posts that have no meaning. Saying that you agree with someone is in fact fluff. While your views may differ with mine in the end, your posts are still fluff.

speaking of which, why are we (more me now) bad because of this but the non-posters are not really getting any suspicions noted for their very absences?

This is true, but I'm not going to lynch lurkers. Lurking is a null-tell. Not to mention, I am FoS'ing Jenny, highly. Just sayin'.

post 32

You very quickly jumped hard onto Lie, off of Lie, and hard onto me.

Because I liked Lie's responses, compared to your defense.

I think your definition of a fluff post needs to be looked at, much like other definitions you were misusing. Based on your examples from Lie's past in this game. A quick "this is what I'm thinking about this" isn't fluff, it's just not your wall of text. Random unconnected things that aren't aimed at trying to figure things out, are fluff.

No, trust me. I know the difference between fluff and content. Note that I'm saying that you two are the majority of the fluff poster. If I really didn't know what it was, and it the definition that you think is my definition, almost everyone playing would be scummy for being fluffy, no?

Again, I never said you seemed town from the beginning, except in that one post where you lashed out on andrew. I said that you seemed TO BE TRYING TOO HARD TO LOOK TOWN. If you don't understand what that means then at this point ask someone else to explain it.

I still don't get what you're playing at, but I honestly don't care. Lynching Pro-Town people is not smart.

me:
"before it felt like you had a fake persona on and i didn't like that at all"
you:
"may i ask why?"

..uh, why you had a fake persona on, why you seemed not to all of a sudden, or why I didn't like it? That's a gut thing based on your style of talking. If you're not into English and literature it's sort of hard to break that down more than "a feeling," which obviously isn't good enough for you. If you think a gut feeling isn't good enough to go on, then tell that to the millions of detectives out there that use that very tactic in their jobs.

Because you

know

that those detectives base most of those cases on gut feeling. Whether you do or not, this is not investigating a crime, this is finding scum. In semantics, this isn't too far away, however the method we use to find scum is logic and reason.

Not

gut feelings.

As for the andrew/meta thing. If he tends to fakeclaim, and when is town doesn't claim, then yeah, I think that's a legitimate historical precedent to use toward determining if he's likely to be scum again after a claim. Also he flat-out lied in his responses to me about his past gaming and knew I couldn't link to them because they're ongoing. It's one thing to say "yeah, I was like that, but I'm moving on." It's another to consistently lie, even to the end, like he did about the N0 investigation.

Agreed.

As for being annoyed that wraith suspects you? uhm. wow. I find that hilarious actually. You got "displeased" when Lie voted you/FoS you. Are you an only child? You feel like an only child. Or the baby of the family.

What? I say that to bring in humor. If you're happy for someone to FoS or Vote you, then I don't know what you are. If you're going to look too hard into these posts, I should just stop here.

post 34

My posts on my "feelings" as you put it, which are "quite useless" are how I play. I'm sorry that I don't play the way you do, but I don't. So replace feeling with whatever logical word you like better into my posts and reread things so that you actually pay attention to the fact that I'm making a position in them.

Does anyone need to know that Mafia looks like Math to you? No. Therefore, according to what I see Fluff as, this is fluff.

As far as the comments about andrew there, that I proved he lied "which we already had done" show me where. Show me where I wasn't the one that pointed out andrew was a liar. My first step in this game was to sit down and write out how I felt about everyone.

Well that's good. If you write a post on how you feel about everything in the game that's fine. We have more posts in abundance that speak about one person, and that generally agrees with another person in the game, especially after they say something.

post 36

You mistake the point of my first statement. OBVIOUSLY ONE OF US IS BOUND TO BE SCUM. yeah, so lets attack everyone because sooner or later we will hit gold, right? I was using sarcasm at your methods to show my distrust of them. Maybe I should come out and say it more clearly for you. YOU FINGER TOO MANY PEOPLE. IT LOOKS BAD FOR YOU.

If I didn't see the part where you called it sarcasm, I wouldn't think there was sarcasm, btw. Also, fingering(hehehe) too many people isn't bad. It just shows who I'm suspicious of. Just because I'm suspicious to a number higher then the confirmed amount of scum, doesn't mean that I want to lynch them all. I'm just suspicious of them.

Also, if your logic sucks when you're mad, oh well. not my problem. Don't be obnoxious, and you won't be annoyed.

What? I'm not annoyed. While yes, I was pissed off at the end of the other post, it doesn't mean that every post I am now the raging mafia player. This just seems like another awful attempt to avoid my logic, rather then telling me where the fault is, like you've been doing to the other part of this post, btw. And this is where you end. The other 8 posts? Welpity welp.

Sigh. I hope We don't have a game with

3 replacements

. That would be annoying.

Preview Edit:

Jenny, no one called you scum for unvoting for a quick hammer, people called you scum because I was at L-2, which is 1 vote away from quickhammer. And even after that, I don't think anyone really called you scum for that action. I'd like a quote about what you're talking about.

I don't like the Jenny post, especially because this should be the anti-prod post. I would like it, if you posted more, and defended yourself, please.

[Hiraki]

You and me both.

I'll make a bigger post later about the past events of the last page, but I dare anyone to look at Andrius' last posts.

While I agree that both Jenny and Noraaa are suspicious to me, Andrius now takes the place of TJ.

Just me?

[Hiraki]

Wraith no need to rush why do you want a lynch so fast

He has a point.

At this rate, FC, and Jenny will just be replaced. We can't determine if they're scum roles or not, because everyone gets replaced. Jenny is scummy though, so meh. Take it as you want, I still think that she's scum, whether or not she's being replaced.

This is especially so, because JennyFan is a replacement, and is one prod away from being replaced. Btw, yes,

Prod: JennyFan

Moving on, I believe I promised some points before.

First off, I don't think Andrius is scummy for his random V/LAs anymore, and nor can I say that's a good scumtell either. Therefore, he's back at neutral.

Hiraki the trying too hard to look town thing is self explanatory.

Then explain it to me please, instead of calling it self-explanatory. Obviously it's not self explanatory to the person who doesn't get it.

Wraith then makes a wall, and I am lazy and don't like quotes. Therefore, it's in quote order, per se.

The primary reason for his vote on me is the accidental unvote I made (however I don't think I explained that by this point). Normally would be fine, but he continues to discredit me with the "meta" andrew posted on me. The preview edit is strange, though. He doesn't think townies would want to lynch me for andrew's reasons, but he votes for me anyways? Tsk, tsk...

I've made this clear a couple of times now. Andrew primarily voted you because you "lied". I voted you because of that vote, which by that point you didn't explain. It didn't seem right, and even after you explained it, it didn't seem right either.

[My post] is not WIFOM. And I have already pointed out that I answered the post you refer to, which I'm starting to believe you ignored in an attempt to discredit me further.

Saying that "I hate being town, I'd rather be scum" isn't WIFOM is laughable.

Despite my answering his post and pointing out that I had answered his post, Hiraki continues to press an already-resolved issue further in another attempt to discredit me.

I didn't understand it. Plain and simple as that. Still doesn't seem very believeable to me, but w/e.

Part 1 of one of his WoTs. I do not know which "Post 4" you refer to exactly, but I assume it's my vote on andrew. The problem here is that I cannot answer it and make you believe. It was an RVS vote, nothing more, and I think I'd said that already by this point.

Ding ding ding. I'm scum in everyone one of your other points, except for this one where you see it's something that I don't believe your story. Welp.

Despite the fact that he himself strongly suspected displaced (and in fact held a vote on him after RVS for a while until jumping on me) he uses my own suspicion of displaced as a scumpoint against me.

Because scum would be on the wagon, and try to hop on first, just because it was easy to get on, not to mention, the point that your vote had on you being scum, was minor.

By this point, the mistake had been explained. Twice. Town would leave it well enough alone after receiving a perfectly reasonable answer. Twice. Misrepping.

And still, I don't believe your explanation. Town wouldn't care about your answer, if it sounded terrible. I.E. To me it did. Obv. not town now because I don't get it.

Moving on to his second WoT. He suddenly switches his attention to andrew, who he had previously backed against me. I believe this is scum jumping ship when their wagon on me is sinking.

Or perhaps Andrew was scummy, and therefore we lynched him because he went overboard on all points of his points on you, and I was still suspicious of you. Perhaps.

First off, Hiraki's first point is just nitpicking. Just because he didn't address a specific person doesn't mean he is scum. The second point is actually somewhat valid. However, the last sentence is one we can draw parallels with. We had a semi-buddy-buddy relationship between these two when they were on my wagon, now Hiraki suddenly changes opinions. We also know that andrew was town, now. Keep that in mind.

Hey Dude. You're scum. Obviously if I wasn't referencing this part of the post to you, most people would assume this was going towards a man. Which person? Idunnolol. Again, this point is minor, and I was not the only one who thought that Andrew was scummy.

1. More nitpicking. Hiraki uses andrew's grammar and word choice as the basis for his lynch. This is a sight to be repeated continuously throughout the day.
2. Most of these point Hiraki brings up were before or during his wagoneering against me. Yet he does not start attacking andrew for them until my wagon has fallen apart.

1) Um. Well. No I didn't. I found him scummy for changing views so rapidly.

2) Um well, no again. I found Andrew scummy for his horrible logic which seemed to be a chance to gain townie points.

I'm not quoting this one, because it's mainly the same points that have been repeated again. If you wanted to to complain to me about replying about something,

in Day One

, you probably should've asked,

in Day One.

Also, not that he does not vote for andrew until after a WoT against him and three subsequent posts. Strange considering "how scummy he found him."

Well yeah. I found you scummy before I analyzed his posts, and found it to be massively scummy. Again, just because you thought he was town, doesn't mean that everyone thought he was town.

Bolded parts are key. I trust you to spot the incredi-scum contradiction yourselves.

Touche. I will agree that I contradicted myself in the formation of a post. I could blame it to being tired or something of the like, but I won't. You get townie points for sniping that.

Back on point though, how is this scummy? The only reason I unvoted was to stop a quickhammer for him to claim. If I was scum, like you think I was, there would be no point for me to Unvote for a Quickhammer. In fact, I'd be inviting a quickhammer, or a hammer done by someone other then me.

tl;dr Wraith gets town points, but doesn't make anything that looks convincing.

Preview Edit: TJ.

....

Sigh.

[Hiraki]

Wait, I'm confused Hiraki. Are the italics yours or the person you're quoting? And quote-walls look bad, but they help us out alot. Then we don't have to look for who said which quote etc.

WAIT. Tj, why are you voting Wraith but calling Hiraki non-town? You just said in 268 that Hiraki hasn't done anything exceptionally scummy, but then in 270 you critique him? I'm confused as to your (seemingly wavering) stance on Hiraki.

1) The italics are where Wraith responded to my quote, as stated in his post.

2) I believe TJ was explaining why Wraith thought my play looked anti-town, since I didn't really understand it.

If this is what Wraith is thinking, I have a bit of a problem with that.

[Hiraki]

Fullcircle failed to pick-up his prod in time, searching for a replacement. My next post will be made when I have a replacement and will include a votecount.

Anything about Jenny?

[Hiraki]

THIS IS A MOD POST. THOR665 REPLACES FULLCIRCLE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY.

Booyah.

In my eyes, this doesn't seem suspicious to me. It just seems like something someone would say, and not really care about what they were saying because everyone attacking them made very small, and stupid points

And

Saying that "I hate being town, I'd rather be scum" isn't WIFOM is laughable.

I think you need to make up your mind...

Other than that, nothing much to contribute. :/
Guess we have to wait for replacements...

I was mostly addressing your point, and not the posts content. For example, what you say, is something that a townie would say, however that doesn't constitute it to having flaws, ex. WIFOM. Nice find though, I'll be surprised if you're scum.

Btw.

Prod: Noraaa

I'm interested in her opinions of the last page or so. Quite.

[Hiraki]

Noraa. I think it's quite oblivious about your point that I don't listen to people, because you haven't brought up anything I haven't listened to. If you did that before, and multiple times, then perhaps I would've agreed with you. I've already said my stance on my 2 "WIFOM-based cases". The reason that I feel you're scum, shouldn't surprise you, if it's for other reasons, btw. it is, and I've already stated them. You're ignoring me now bro.

[Hiraki]

I like you Thor.

I missed your post, mostly because my subliminal conscious went to click page 13, assume nothing new happened on Page 12. Seems I was wrong.

My scumlist is still about the same.
1) Noraa- For reasons already stated.
2) Ibarra/JennyFan/Displaced- For reasons already stated, Ibarra hasn't been too keen on my liking either. I could go into detail, but I'm on my iPod, so that's not happening.

If I had a 3rd, I believe it'd go to a lurker, mostly Andrius. However, at the moment, the two above already seem like good lynches.

@Ibarra: Wraith doesn't come off as scummy anymore. Before, when said that, I misunderstood the reasoning of his actions, which to me seemed scummy. Perhaps if I went in depth, I could find something, but again, he'd be in a 4th/5th spot. So, I wouldn't lynch him.

[Hiraki]

1) That's laughable. I don't control your vote, you have a choice to oppose. In this case you are.

2)Test Lynches, as I now call them, aren't as unhelpful as you think. First of all, I was intending on lynching Person A because Person A and B are scummy and were in an argument, and one of the two is most probably scum. Therefore, it's not wasting, but rather testing.

3)Agreed. But that's still 1/3, with the other two points being quite horrible.

[Hiraki]

So.

Can we lynch Noraaa already?

[Hiraki]

I personally kind of doubt she's scum at the moment - if you want her lynched present a concise, clear explanation of what she's done that is scummy and how it's scummy and maybe we'll talk. I seem to recall the case mostly being "blargh, I disagree with you" which isn't much of a case.

1) She's lied multiple times that I didn't quote her/answer her questions, which only happened with Lieksykrie. I am feeling the "hmm this guy is getting BW, let me hop on fast" feel.

2)Most of her points on why I'm scum are

quite

minor, and I can't see a townie person voting someone based on these tells.


I feel better in her lynch rather than Ibarra right now, so that's also a reason.

[Hiraki]

Yeah, we're just in normal ol' D2.
Where is everyone?

Yeah sorry, I misread that it was starting 28th, I thought it was the 29th.

Well who did thor replace as "town leader" when he showed up?
Hiraki. Hiraki lost a lot of pull when thor came. The only reason im not voting Hiraki now is thor did try to dismantle Hirakis wagon.

I will admit that my posting has gone down in the the few days/weeks. I've been a bit busier.

Unfortunately, I'm not in the best of times to do a good post right now, so I'm going to save it for later, perhaps in a few days.

[Hiraki]

Yeah sorry, I've been getting a bit sick over the past few days, so that's why I haven't posted.

Back to real business, I am a

Vanilla Townie

.

I can't really defend against anything still because most of it is speculation on the death, which really makes no sense to me why some people are making as big as a lynch subject.

Again, I can't defend that I used to be Town Leader, but since I'm not now, I'm apparently scum. I don't know what statements got you to that conclusion, but y'know. Again, I used logic. You followed it. We didn't find scum. How does this make me scum? Because we didn't find scum?

At this point, the only thing I can to do is

Vote: Ibarra

[Hiraki]

Once again sorry for not being able to post much. IRL stuff happen

Let's look at the suspicious things Hiraki did: 1)
He preempts himself by saying that his style is usually aggressive. (not sure if "preempt" is the right term) He even says to a certain degree that because of this aggressive style, people say that "he's mafia".

And..this makes me scummy, because?

2)
Used "Attack the Person" on andrew94 and joined the bandwagon.

Oh btw., I didn't start it or anything. No, of course because when I unvoted for a claim, that's scummy, and joining a BW.

3)
He agrees to Lynch all Liers, but he himself lied.

More specific, please.

4)
At first he says he has three viable lynches then stops and says that he will continue, then abandons writing the two other.

Correct, but that's because I got busy. What's your point about this? I later did say Noraaa and Leikskyrie were good MLs, starting the debate of what a ML is, and therefore, I did have 3 Viable Lynches. Now, I have 2.

5)
He uses Relativist Fallacy in the arguments against the "fluff" posts by noraaa and Leiskyri.

Because I didn't say later that it was more a reaction test.

@Hiraki:
You were dead set on lynching Noraaa yesterdayu
What made you change your mind and vote me? Unless it's just as what Wraith says.

First off, no one would agree with Wraith, being scum or town, but you'll probably find this scummy too. I voted you because you had a higher chance of being lynched, rather than Noraaa, my second target. I'm fine with either you or Noraaa dying.

[Hiraki]

Unvote, Vote: Noraaa

I'm for lynching either, and I will go with the majority.

I have nothing else that I think needs to be said.

[Hiraki]

Noraaa claims when 2 people, including me who has suspected her since D2, and had the vote on her for most of the day, and the person she believes is scum.

Yeah, I like this lynch

a lot

right now.

[Hiraki]

Wraith does make a good point.

TJ, you said earlier in the day you're not willing to lynch me because of Thor's dismantle of my wagon.

However, now you're saying that it's because I'm not scummy.

Explain.

[Hiraki]

I see.

I just didn't understand it a bit, and it jumped up at me.

Noraaa and Ibarra are still scum. Gogogogo.

[Hiraki]

1. That Tell is more Meta, and specific to a person. Also, I can't see it being that big.

2(3, I guess). And Wraith did the same thing, sorry my dates were off, I forgot that was a huge scumtell.

From what I can see, this case is quite horrible at best.

[Hiraki]

I don't believe Noraaa's work claim at all btw.

She could've gone to work, but the whole thing that she was thinking that she was going to be lynched is scummy to me.

Not to mention, Noraaa thought she'd be lynched in less than 12 hours without anyone waiting for a claim.

[Hiraki]

Lurkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

I think we need a Prod Checks. Mostly on Noraaa and Ibarra.

Y'know?

[Hiraki]

Umm.

Ibarra.

Liekskyrie has wanted to lynch me since D2...

Oh right. Noraaa was up for a prod an hour after I posted that.

Prod: Noraaa

<________<

[Hiraki]

Nothing for me to say here.

Just after Liek/Noraaa hammers, lynch Noraaa tomorrow.

Okay?

Noraaa is getting worse and worse by the second.

Once you find I'm right about Noraaa, go for Ibarra.

TJ and Wraith are still town. Wraith uses logic, and made a wall. Call it pure speculation, but most scum don't make walls that are convincing. TJ is town for being town, and not being scum.

You guys need to learn how to Townhunt.

Because then it becomes clear that Noraaa and Ibarra are the two people who don't look remotely town at all.

[Hiraki]

@Hikari
What exactly is your basis for suspecting me?

Is it because of what my predecessors did?

Obviously reading the thread.

If you read the thread, which you have not/don't even try to say you have, you would've seen

1. That Tell is more Meta, and specific to a person. Also, I can't see it being that big.

2(3, I guess). And Wraith did the same thing, sorry my dates were off, I forgot that was a huge scumtell.

From what I can see, this case is quite horrible at best.

that post, in which your case is, like I have already said, horrible.

To move on, I can go back to town-hunting, where you and Noraaa seem to be the most consistent in seeming to not be townie, and everyone else being okay. There's a few people that are meh, but their townie actions outweigh how they look.

In short, your past predecessors don't have much to do with the case, but they can. Either way, you're still scum.

[Hiraki]

According to the OP, November 18th.

There's still time.

[Hiraki]

If Noraaa isn't going to hammer me, I'd rather just do it myself.

Noraaa. I don't think you realize the severity of your actions.

You were voting me with the intent to lynch D2. D3 comes along and it seems that now I may not be scum. Why? Because you hate my style. Also lingo for "Wow, this guy made some good points on me, and now I need to panic/get rid of the evidence!"

Ibarra is still not here. Expected.

Go ahead kill me. I dare you.