Newbie 1016 - Trouble in Joestown (Game Over, Mafia Win!)

[Andrius]

I don't actually bookmark any of my games...

Welcome to 1016! I'm Andrius, your friendly-neighborhood IC. What is an IC? We're experienced players that volunteer to play in Newbie games and teach you the ropes. Our play is governed by Being a Good IC, The Guide. This is my first time as an IC, so I'm excited to play with people I've never played with before, and you better be as well. I'm a fairly active poster, but I've been waaay busier IRL than usual, so I might not post as often as my town-meta suggests.

I am the teaching role here. The SEs (Wraith and andrew94), are Semi-Experienced, but they're not the primary teachers. Feel free to ask me questions in-thread, and you can always PM the Mod about more... sensitive material (like PRs, if you're scum, etc.).

Ok, a few things I'd like to point out:

• Read the rules of the game. Each moderator's rules are different, so read these and get familiar with them.
  
• Do not Self-Vote. This may seem stupid, but self-voting is never helpful to the town, and is incredibly anti-town.
  
• Do not vote No Lynch, especially on D1. That doesn't help us at all, here in a newbie game.
  
• DO NOT LIE AS TOWN. Even if you are at L-1. Do not claim Cop when you are not the Cop.
  
• Do not claim your role until you are at L-1. While it may seem tempting and we might want to lynch you, do not claim your role until L-1.

And I'll open with

Vote: andrew94

for being scum in my first game as moderator.

Also,
1) Is this your first mafia game? If not, give a little background info as to your experience with mafia.
2) What is your favorite alignment?
3) What is your favorite role?

1) This is my 27th game on this site.
2) I prefer town, as my scum meta is easily recognizable.
3) I prefer investigative roles, like Tracker and Inventor. Playing as Masons is alot of fun.

And please be active. Don't expect me and the SEs to dominate the game and do all the work for you.

Some good reading for you guys: The Newbie Guide and Common Abbreviations.

[Andrius]

So it seems that Day one has started...?

Vote: Andrius

because Katsuki said so~ ^.^

Katsuki's a pretty cool dude, but he needs to work on his Vig-play.

[Andrius]

And, for everyone who knows me/ watches the Title Fairy thread, I'll try my darndest not to crumb anything. XD

[Andrius]

Yo guys, I didn't ask some questions to hear myself speak. XD

[Andrius]

L-1? Don't you mean L-2? If it's LYLO, scum could quickhammer pretty easily. I mean of course, on a regular day, this wouldn't seem bad, but this is a newbie game and all. With all the responses that I've seen so far, it looks like the majority has never played a game before. I really wouldn't want to lynch someone on the basis that the might've accidentally quickhammered because of voting at the same time, and/or near the same time. It's just something that I caught.

No, I mean L-1. If someone quick-hammers outside of LyLo then we lynch them for the previous quicklynch.
In LyLo we all be careful.

There's a scum role that causes one to get lynched? What do you mean? This is just curious me btw. I've never heard of a scum role like this. Unless you're making a pun or something, which I want to assume. I'd hate to play that role too.

No, he just finished a game I moderated. He was a Mafia Goon, who self-hammered D1.

[Andrius]

This is a pitiful RVS vote bro. If you wanted to vote him/her for being a female, you should realize that women don't exist on the internet.

They do, actually.

Re: andrew94
1) I'm down to lynch all liars, especially in a Newbie Game. There's no role-related reason to lie in here.
2) Due to a personal vendetta against lurkers, I'm down to lynch lurkers, outside of MyLo/LyLo. That being said, everyone has posted at least once, so we're looking good on the activity scale.

1) Yes, it's my first mafia game. I have followed a few other games though and

picked up some tips from Katsuki.

We'll see how this goes. XD

Fullcircle's first post was good, though the RVS (Random Voting Stage) vote on Hiraki is a tad iffy. High activity is usually a town-tell, and Hiraki's doing great in that respect. The reason that Lynch All Lurkers is commonplace is because scum can often get away with lurking. And an IC who is lurking is probably scum, let me tell you right now.

Ok, new question. For everyone who hasn't played enough to know a favorite role,

which role in this setup would you rather have? (Aka, Doctor, Cop, VT, Mafia (Goon/RB))

. While being Cop is fun, I find it to be very stressful, because you can single-handedly win the game for the town with that role. Doc is easier, but you have to be able to read people very well. I prefer, in Newbie Games, to be VT, because all you need to do is play normally, and attempt to draw the NK (and RB) away from other potential PRs.

Mod might be strict and spell name right, but idunnolol.

Usually, the mod will count it as long as its clear who he's voting. So you guys can be Vote: Andy and he'll know its me.

Yes, OMGUS (OhMyGodUSuck) is generally seen as bad, but he's probably just over-reactive/defensive newb. Wanting to mislynch him based on his being defensive isn't exactly a town thing to do. When I first joined here I played defensively, as my gut wasn't tuned to the scum yet. I commented on other people's actions, but didn't actively pursue an agenda.

Speaking of which,

FoS: Hiraki

, because from my experience, it looks as though you're trying to push an easy mislynch on displaced. While I don't have a read on him yet, its not exactly a good way to approach things: picking a candidate for a mislynch. And yes, you did actually call it a mislynch. However, if you're right that he is newb-scum, you have to be town, as no Newb-scum would buss their partner on page 2. XD

So we would have to see how this flips. :/ I'd like displaced to post some more, so I can get a read on him and call this either town/town infighting or call it town/scum. Which is a good trade-off.

[Andrius]

EBWOP- as for the new question, I'd like to explore the power roles, but in a very basic setup (I'll probably stay in the newbie area for a while) until I can fully wrap myself around their possibilities. Then I'll move out to try new things. I was following a game that had an inventor though, and that sounds interesting.

I killed an Inventor and stole his role in my first game as scum. I gave my partner a DayKill, and we won.

[Andrius]

Yeah, so I'm in college, and this week's been really busy for me. :S
And emotional too, so.

I'll post more later, I just wanted to let you guys know that my activity won't always be as great as it has been.

[Andrius]

FUCK.

GRRR. I had this big catch-up post and then I mis-clicked and lost it.

I'll do it later. Kinda' mad ATM.

[Andrius]

I'll be all caught up tonight. I had my reread post ready, but jmj locked the thread when I was posting at the end of D1.

Yes, there can be a Doc and a Cop in the same setup. That means either there's a Mafia Roleblocker+Goon, or 2 Goons.

[Andrius]

Reread post is underway.

This is my third attempt to do this, so if I misclick or the thread is locked or my computer dies I'll be pissed.

[Andrius]

Andy's Catch-Up Post, Take III

Yes, this is my third attempt to write this up.

I had 3 tests last week, and C'd them all, which for an A student, was very disheartening.

On a more direct note, I find Wraith to be a bit suspicious myself. He didn't vote initially at all, but hung back and then jumped onto the first bandwagon that presented itself less than one post after it formed. I'm certainly not all that experienced, but that seems a bit scummy to me.

unvote
VOTE: Wraith

Generally you FoS people who you are "a bit suspicious" of, rather than voting them.

tj94, I pointed this out because I've had personal experience with ICs lurking and coasting HARDCORE and getting away with it. Don't let ANYONE lurk, but especially not an IC.

Wraith/andrew94 Debacle

Wraith votes displaced in a somewhat-RVS fashion.
Andrew comes in and asks Wraith about his stance on LAL (Lynch All Liars), and commends him on the "nice bandwagoning"
Wraith supports LAL, and Unvotes (due to pressure?)
Andrew calls Wraith a liar and asks Wraith if he wants the rope
Leiskyrie comes on the spot and asks Wraith why he unvoted.
Andrew uses some semi-useless meta information to prove that Wraith is indeed, lying.

At this point in the reread I'd call this occurance either n00b-andrew-scum trying to push a Wraith lynch or town/town.
(We now know that andrew is ineed town, and thus implies Wraith is town.)

At the moment, I'm going to,
UNVOTE: displaced
FoS: displaced, tj84
VOTE: Wraith

As a general rule, you don't vote/FoS more people than there are scum. So in a Newbie game there are only 2 scum, so you'd be voting one and FoSing the other. Declaring small amounts of suspicion on many players is a n00b-scum move, as it allows them to call alot of people as scum, yet as people flip town they can still point to their scumreads from earlier.

IMPORTANT!

Wraith, why did you softclaim VT? Granted, you're town for doing so (scum won't claim VT at this point, with a confirmed Doctor in the wood work.) By claiming VT the scum know that you're not the Doctor. Also, after N1 the scum know who else cannot be Doctor (aka, who they tried to kill but didn't die). You're actually helping them find the Doctor. (Unless you are scum and trying to pull the wool over me, who expects the first scum to claim to claim a PR.)

andrew makes a good point. Its harder for us to respond to your stuff when you type in quote walls. Just saying.

noraaaa,, do you mean that Hiraki is trying too hard to find scum, or rather that he is trying too hard to blend in with the town?

Point of Information

Of course at this moment, you have to realize that Andrew is also a SE. While this isn't the best effort to his case, it's not the worst either.

SE's are not necessarily good players. All players become an sE once they complete two games and re-enter the Newbie Queue.

IC's

are

the good players. We have to apply with the List Mod (Vel-Rahn Koon) and be accepted into IC-hood in order to become an IC.

I just wanted to clarify that andrew's status as SE doesn't mean he's any better at this game than you guys. He's just Semi-Experienced.

Regarding Meta

Meta is useful. However, it is a tool you use in congunction with other tools. You cannot make a cake with only a spoon. Likewise, you cannot expect to lynch scum with only meta.

Scum often fakeclaim Doctor. You have to be careful when dealing with claimed Doctors.

Re: THE HAMMER

So the hammering of andrew was semi-bad. While andrew did refuse to claim, someone should have been like "bro, claim NOW or be lynched." Because perhaps he didn't think it was completely serious. Hell, I still had my RVS vote on him.
Also, I find it... coincidential, for lack of a better word, that Hiraki and tj94 both voted (and hammered) andrew approximately 10 minutes apart. While scum do not get DayTalk in Newbie games, (and I'm not calling you guys scum quite yet), it was something that caught my eye, is all.

Though I did facepalm over andrew claiming a N0 investigation on tj94.


Hiraki is correct though. The Doctor out there should not claim now. Just continue saving the town, one person at a time.

Hiraki's big post implies he has 3 suspects, though the only ones I gathered were Leiskyrie (from the massive case) and Wraith (who he called "Obv. scum").

Waiting to hear content from displaced's replacement.

[Andrius]

I tried to keep that relatively concise and easy on the eyes.

[Andrius]

Here

[Andrius]

Here

Oh yeah. Oops, I do that when I'm VT sometimes.

No problem bro. Just be careful not to do that too often and too early in the game. If too many of us claim VT then the scum will have an easier time with Doc-hunting.

[Andrius]

So that's 2 votes on Hiraki.

(BTW, I'm an IC, not a SE.)

I'm not opposed to a Hiraki lynch, as he's definitely not a towny-townie. BUT, we should begin looking for possible scumbuddies for all suspects. Let's say Hiraki is scum. We need to start looking for his scumbuddy now, so we narrow out the field. I think that the #1 scumbuddy for Hiraki would be Fullcircle. Its partially gut, but FC has been avoiding the thread for most of D2 (IIRC).

But this all depends on the Hiraki flip. So what we really need is a scumbag hanging tonight.

But what we really need is Jenny and FC to catch up before we make a move.

And don't worry about a quicklynch. This isn't LyLo, and if someone did quick-hammer then we'd have a scumbag for sure.

Everyone should give a list of their top two scumreads now.
1) Hiraki is a mediocre scumread, though I'm not ready to vote yet.
2) I'm 80% sure that the last scum is either in the lurkers (Jenny/FC) or the Active lurkers.

[Andrius]

Ok, I was prodded.
Sorry about that, but I was busy this weekend and all.
Going on a first date tonight, so. 8D
I'll catch up soon, promise.

[Andrius]

LA for 24 hours.

[Andrius]

So yeah. I've been really busy lately. I had a Business Law Midterm, and I need to get like, an 89% out of that test.
Also, classes suck, Econ sucks.
BUT, I'm not going to call it before we DTR, but I *might* have a steady girlfriend now, so. <3

@ Hiraki: I've already elaborated as to why SEs/ICs are different, so I'll just move on.

Look, as a scumbuddy, you're going to want your scumbuddy to be active, so that they can "pick up the torch" when you're gone. Having a lurker scum-buddy sucks. Having TWO sucks. (Thrillville Mafia)

Seems like you're pretty damn sure. Not gonna lie.

I'm not "pretty damn sure", but your wagon seems to be town-driven, which means:
1) You're scum
2) Both scum aren't bothering to vote on you/comment/care

Wraith is still a town read. I won't deeply consider him as scum unless we hit LyLo. The VT softclaim D1 wasn't something scum would do.

We also know that if Hiraki is scum, dispaced/JennyFan cannot be scum.
For the record, I don't see Hiraki's posting as fluff, but there is definitely some questionable D1 content that needs sorting out.

The note to the mod is interesting. I can see it as a scumbuddy clearing up another scumbuddy's voting. But it can be t/t... a Hiraki flip would give major tells on Wraith's alignment, and possinly displaced/Jennyfan's slot...

I don't see much evidence of coaching (when the scumgroup consists of a SE/IC and a n00b, the experienced player will "coach" the n00b on how to play better). I'm town, and Wraith is pretty much town in my mind, so. :/ We need to bring out the lurkers.

tj94, your hammer was not inherently scummy. You hammered a player who refused to claim. The fact that he flipped Cop doesn't put you in a different light for hammering, as he refused to claim.

Andrius (iso)- only thing I find weird is your blantant acceptance of Wraith's VT claim.

Let's look at it another way:
Let's assume a scum is put to L-1. If he claims VT, he'll get lynched. So what does he claim? A PR. If there isn't one, he's saved. If there is, he outed the other PR for his buddy.
Scum claiming VT on D1 is VERY rare.

And we're not lynching anyone until we get everyone else in here with some content *COUGHCOUGHFULLCIRCLEANDJENNYFANCOUGH*
Let's go guys. My Town Win Ratio could use another win... :/

NO SPOILER TAGS!

[Andrius]

Alright, if everyone's "done saying everything" we need to get on with this lynch. Most of us are on board with a Hiraki lynch, so can we please get this show on the road?

We should really wait for FC/JF and/or their replacement

before we move on...

@ Katsuki: T_T

[Andrius]

[Andrius]

Wait, I'm confused Hiraki. Are the italics yours or the person you're quoting? And quote-walls look bad, but they help us out alot. Then we don't have to look for who said which quote etc.

WAIT. Tj, why are you voting Wraith but calling Hiraki non-town? You just said in 268 that Hiraki hasn't done anything exceptionally scummy, but then in 270 you critique him? I'm confused as to your (seemingly wavering) stance on Hiraki.

[Andrius]

Ok. We should probably wait for the replacement... :/
I know its semi-boring sitting here and waiting, but rushing around with 1-2 players missing is NOT good play. Yeah, they both might be the scum, but that's unlikely.

[Andrius]

Posting as a check-in. No word on replacements yet...

[Andrius]

Hey Thor, who I've never played with but am modding over. Hey Ibarra. Glad to see we got them replacements.

I can assure you this slot will never need to be replaced again (also, hopefully this slot will have superlative scumhunting and be loved by all - but that is harder to promise)

Glad to know I'm not the only one on the site who will never replace out of a game.

Post #19 - Andrius says we lynch people for quickhammers, should be interesting to see if this comes back up since

I can't imagine 12 pages till Day 2 doesn't count as a quickhammer

.

I'm a tad confused as to what you mean by the latter statement. (Italicized.) Why is that a quickhammer?

Andrius' continued questioning about roles is odd. Not sure I see the scumhunting angle there and also not sure I even see a pro-town angle to knowing the info. Rolefishing? More thoughts on this as we proceed.

I'm pretty sure I only asked once, in the "what's your favorite role" context. I wasn't using that as rolefishing, as that would be both blatant and incredibly thin-veiled.

WTF? Andrius' post #36 includes defense of Hiraki, then he FoSes Hiraki for the displaced push which he calls Hiraki angling for a mislynch (also manages preemptive defese of himself by describing what a scum IC would do - and by the way note how he isn't doing it). Note that with the FoS on Hiraki he has actually listed some real suspicion about that player but won't unvote his RVS in order to actually vote Hiraki. Is his FoS less of a scum vibe then a RVS? Would probably vote Andrius at this stage.

Yeah, IIRC Hiraki was playing a good town game but was blatantly calling that a "mislynch". I was hoping I caught another n00b-scum slip like 981. XD He called someone a mislynch. While the likelyhood of any Newbie Game lynching town is common, blatantly calling someong a mislynch is NOT good play.
I've had personal experience with lurker_ICs and they bother me. ESPECIALLY when I'm a claimed Cop and they lurk so hard and they walk in here going "lol andy is lying scum" and lynch me in lylo and win. Goddamn I had like 25% of the game's posts and he had under A PAGE.

Andrius needs to stop active lurking - a player is at L-1 and he can't even weigh in on it? That's weak.

IRL stuff happens. If I could devote all my time to playing mafia and still make a living I would.

Andrius is now claiming post block via mod??? WTFOMGLOL, ARRRGH - I WAS CAST INTO CAPSRAGE!!! BLARGH AVEST FORSOOTH!!!

Why couldn't we have just lynched Wraith or Andrius yesterday?

Because we're town? Wraith moreso than me, but we are both town.

Not sure how I feel about Hiraki calling Wraith obv. scum and then not voting him...he's doing something wrong methinks.

Wraith is town, so its probably Hiraki trying to divert the now-dying wagon away from herself. They're definitely not scumbuddies.

Really? I just slipped Vel a bottle of Scotch and a knowing wink.

I had a heartattack when Shotty applied for IC. Don't lend Shotty and scotch.

Andrius keeps going with the Wraith VT claim = town thing, which is an interesting tell and he's almost selling me on it. Wraith's super long mega post against Hiraki with a then appended vote makes me want to keep seeing Wraith as scum. Will need to suss this out with Andrius in thread - we both can't be brilliant and correct here

That's because Wraith. Is. Town. Scum wouldn't claim VT on D1 when they could fakeclaim PR and either:
1) out the real PR
2) get lucky
IF Wraith is scum, he totally duped me. But he isn't, so.

@Andrius - I want you to address my Wraithscum thoughts in the last two walls, I think you're selling me on Wraithtown but I need more work - also, if he's Wraithtown that makes you Andriustown which would be nice and at least would force me to cram you guys into a scumpair or town and that would be neato-keen. Also want you to consider the point addressed to everyone below, you seem to be buying into the Hirakiscum case and I'm not sure why, what's up with that?

Wraith is town. What further proof can I give you? Wraith's not the type to softclaim VT as scum on

D1

when scum claiming a PR does them more good. Unless they know that they are a Goon/RB combo with no PRs, but there's no way to tell that D1 before the lynch/any other claims. So Wraith is 100% town on this one. I'm willing to risk the game on my read, so. (Didn't pay off so well in Popularity Mafia, but.)
And no I don't have a shitload of meta to go off of, but I am playing here with him and am modding over him in an On-Going Game, so. (LOTR Mafia)

The Ibarra/jennyfan/displaced does need content. Like, ASAP.

@Andrius - lurking ICs are scummy and should be lynched - thoughts?

I'm town. Find another IC. jmj3000,

y'all?

Noraaa's 299 reminds me of RC's playstyle. Rather unsettling. /personal note.

Going to have to look over the Hiraki wagon again. Not willing to lynch Wraith today, obv.town he is.

[Andrius]

Goddamn, missed page 13. Back in a mninute.

[Andrius]

Thor made good points against him (namely pre-empting himself). Hilarious though about him saying that IC+lurking=scum, but he's lurking.

I'm not the type to set up massive WIFOM for later on. I didn't mean to lurk this badly, but it just happened, so.

Wraith - null
I think the Wraith-scum/Wraith-town argument could go either way. It's true that soft-claiming as VT isn't what scum regularly do, but his actions seem scummy to a certain degree. Interesting to note that two IC's are pushing for either Wraith-town/Wraith-scum.

HE IS TOWN.
I was hella-scummy in Harry Potter Mafia and the only thing that saved me was me and my mason-buddy outing ourselves. You can be town and still scummy as hell. (vezokpiraka, furcolow, chesskid, SHOTTY, VIs) etc.
WRAITH IS TOWN. PLZ READ.

@Thor: My gut wants me to think you're a DSP scum personality that is trying to use mistakes or specific phrases in my past posts to make me look like scum. If you want me to be specific.

But I can't see Thor running in here intent on tunneling you to point-of-lynch. That's a bold move for scum, and unless it matches his persona that's not what he's trying to do. He could be scum trying to redirect town from Hiraki (whether scumbuddy or not), but I'm leaning townish ATM.

[Andrius]

@Andrius - also note tj hitting some good consideration on Wraithtown (and still voting him though...) But the point about Wraith having to ask you for when he softclaimed is a pretty smart catch. Leaving the vote on Wraith is sorta scummy/newb but that point's helping sell me too.

Wait what? I am confuse. :S

AND BTW, SAIII IS BADASS. AND ALL MY MAIN POWER SUPPLIES ARE DIVERT TO THERE UNTIL IT CALMS DOWN FOR A BIT.

What Ibarra wagon? Its just you, Thor. Its not really a wagon ATM.

Hiraki is inconsistient at times.
RC is ReaperCharlie, and he's not a bad guy; his playstyle frustrates me at times though.

Have a headache now from massive rereads.
Reread of this thread is over-due.

[Andrius]

Ok, evidentially I might need to start taking weekend V/LAs.
ANYWAY, I'll catchup tonight/tomorrow sometime.
I've already said what's been going on elsewhere, so.

[Andrius]

Well, coulda seen that one coming.

QFT.

Wraith is still town.

I had no idea deadline was that close; I kinda want to blame jmj for not telling us "you dudez deadline iz soonz", but I *guess* we should be paying attention.

I can't spent alot of time on here today, but the weekend will be different.

Also, we're essentially back on D2, with no kill N1 and no lynch D2.
So we're at D2, Pt. II. No need to massclaim.

Proceed as always.
I'll have to re-look at Thor's town-reads, to see how much I agree with them; are they relevant.

Anyone have any new thoughts before we get srs bsns time?

Also, I received my third and final prod last day. That means if I'm prodded again I get force-replaced. I don't want to ruin my record. Feel free to PM me if I haven't posted in awhile.

Andy

p.s. I agree with Wraith's vote. Going to

FoS: Hiraki

right now because I won't be here much tonight to make sure no one goes anything stupid.
Though I'm not too sold on Leiskyrie. As stated above, going to have to reread his statements. It feels like forever since I last posted in here.

[Andrius]

Ummm... who is this MafiaMann dude?

Is it a hydra/alt of someone in here or...?

[Andrius]

He sounds like noraaaa.
"Town leader" and all.

[Andrius]

Yeah, we're just in normal ol' D2.
Where is everyone?

[Andrius]

TJ, the dilemma here is one of WIFOM. When it comes to WIFOM, I immediately assume the scum are genre savvy and leave it at that. Therefore, I believe the scumteam killed Thor (not only because he was a threat) in order to frame Ibarra for a mislynch.

I hadn't thought of it that way before. The thought of setting up Ibarra's lynch with Thor's death never occured to me. Meh. If you weren't confirmed town in my eyes I'd be scrutinizing you for that pseudo-defense of Ibarra, but.

At this point I'm definitely leaning Hiraki over Ibarra. I'm going to check the vote-count, then vote Hiraki if its not the hammer.

Yeah, Hiraki's been less active lately, but that shouldn't be the only reason we lynch. (obviously)

[Andrius]

Wraith > Hiraki
Ibarra > Hiraki
tj94 > Ibarra

So there's room on the wagon for one more.

Vote: Hiraki

If we could get a claim before you're lynched that'd be great. *coughcoughandrew94cough*

[Andrius]

Perfect timing, jmj. lol

[Andrius]

No hammer untill Hiraki says somthing plese

Of course. Let's take this slow; we have time.

[Andrius]

Yeah, I considered that too.
I also considered that the VT claim might be WIFOM, since I loved your VT claim.

But yeah. I'll do more work tomorrow; I have a law test tomorrow that I need to study for. :S

[Andrius]

I don't think there is a Doctor, TBH. The cop's already dead, and I think it's really rare to have a newbie setup with both, right?

Explain N1 then.
There's a 25% of any setup having both; we have a 50% chance at having a Doc too.

[Andrius]

Yeah, but losing a scumbuddy is a big deal in most games; noraaa would definitely put up a reasonable fight to keep her buddy alive; especially when we've got her nailed down as buddy #1, should Hiraki flip scum.

Massclaiming isn't always aa sure thing; saying that we'll definitely massclaim D3 is not exactly true.
However, if we lynch town and town is NK'd we will massclaim tomorrow, as we'd be in LyLo.

Hey, we're good players. We're not perfect. I can't possibly rememver EVERY scum move they can make, and WIFOM isn't my speciality.
My concentration- if you will- is Breadcrumbing and doing role-related stuff. (Aka, as Cop you lay low and run investigations. VT you attempt to draw the NK without being stupid; etc.)

More later. Busy ATM.

[Andrius]

tj, if noraaa not wanting to hammer is because they're buddies, you might as well put your vote on Hiraki, since there's already a wagon on her/him.

[Andrius]

Yo jmj, when is deadline?
noraaa's vote is bad.
We have two wagons on probable_scum, and we need to decide between them, not let our top collective suspects derail the wagon onto someone else.

I'm uber-busy right now; catchup later.

[Andrius]

That sounds oddly like something he would say; "get to it". Meh.
JMJ IS ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME WITH US.

Moar activity guys.

[Andrius]

Wraith is still town, tj.

Leiskyrie and noraaa need to move their votes. We are lynching Hiraki/ noraaa today. We don't need you guys (and tj [IIRC?]) to try and shift the wagon. We have scum here. We'll buddy-hunt after the flip.

[Andrius]

Who's biased, Wraith or them?

[Andrius]

I don't see how.
We're trying to lynch scum, and we have some players advertently trying to redirect the lynch. We don't know WHY, but evidentially you guys, if you're scum, are unfamiliar with the concept of bussing.

[Andrius]

Yeah, his softclaiming VT wasn't good, but it definitely clears him as town for now.

Lieskyrie needs to get in here, and people need to re-vote onto one of the leading wagons. Because there's probably scum in those 2, and the buddy is probably trying to save the one.

[Andrius]

Leiskyrie and noraaa either need to drop votes on main candidates of explain why the hell they are being anti-town and withholding their votes.
One of them is probably a buddy to someone already in lynch range and they're trying to manuever the wagon.
So let's get busy people.
Place your votes or give some good reasoning as to why: namely, your top two suspects.
And if one (or both) of your suspects are Hiraki/noraaa, why aren't you VOTING?

predit: It seems that noraaa is both not voting and the 2nd wagon.

Question is redirected to Leiskyrie.

[Andrius]

I swear, if deadline sneaks up and kicks us in the arse again I'll be pissed.

[Andrius]

I understand IRL stuff. I'm also sorta' flaking from playing myself,
BUT if you think they're scum and DON'T vote them, there's something wrong there.

[Andrius]

Yo Hayl.
Can we get a flip plzkthx?

[Andrius]

Ok guys, let's cool it down and not head towards nasty personal attacks.

But if we could get a flip that'd be great.

[Andrius]

Ok, we're looking at 3:2.

We massclaim now.
I'm willing to go first, so I will; I'm a VT.

List goes:

noraaa
Ibarra
tj94
Wraith

Any objections? Wraith is last b/c he is most likely town.

[Andrius]

That is the order, tj. Unless someone wants to object to it.

Sure, speculate away. It probably won't be uber-useful, but its worth a shot.

If we don't get a Doctor claim then I'm going to reconsider my stance on Wraith, as it might have been a really lucky scum gambit.

[Andrius]

Or we can claim popcorn-style. In which case I'd like noraaa to go next.

[Andrius]

Except my record has been less-than-stellar. (There are players here who would argue against me being level-headed at all lol)
Scum don't NK non-easy to read players; they kill players who are pro-town or letting off PR tells. I personally didn't see any Doc tells from Leiskyrie (barring the lessened activity), but I'm not the best at picking up crumbs; only dropping them. ^^;

Forgot about noraaa's VT claim.

That means:
Andy - VT
noraaa - VT
Wraith - VT

Ibarra and tj are next, in that order. Unless someone objects.

[Andrius]

Vote: tj94

[Andrius]

If Andrius is the other scum I'll be so mad.

About that...

[Andrius]

Yeah, Wraith and noraaa voting you was bad, given scum would quickhammer with one vote.
Why noraaa thought Ibarra was scum for the Doc claim yet STILL voted you was beyond me.

I'll hold off all my massive comments on the game until the official flip.

Nope. Ibarra and Me. I don't think claiming scum is wrong when the game-ending hammer has been dropped.
I wouldn't buddy Wraith like I did if we were scum together.

[Andrius]

The only one who played inherently badly was andrew, who didn't claim Cop when he hit L-1.

Everyone else just had bad reads, and you'll get better as you play more, trust me. (I played worse than you guys when I first got here. lol)

[Andrius]

Totally called Ibarra. "I wonder why my protection didn't work" and "There must be a blocker" in the same post? Good job though.

I told him not to mention the RB in his post... anyway.
Hi Ythan!

[Andrius]

What're you doing over here? XD

[Andrius]

Dead QT link?

[Andrius]

My original post-game comments:

Hot damn that was intense.

I feel like shit for my play. I really do. I feel like I betrayed all of you.
I hate ICs who lurk, and I wound up becoming one. I lurked so hard that jmj threatened to force-replace me if I got another prod.

Day 1 I meant to play like I do with my good town meta, like I played as SE in 981: uber-active, leading the town, and being amazing.
But then I was handed the role of scum, and I knew that I'd have to explain me not dying all the time.

N1 we No-Killed on purpose, to clear myself as town. After that I lurked hardcore D2 to avert the "why isn't Andy dead" away from me. Thor replacing in was a God-send, as he was the NK-fodder I needed. (And he vibed me hard as scum with Wraith.)


Overall thoughts:
D1 went really well for us; andrew being Cop was not any of your faults. (Jenny and I loved it though.) That was just horrid play on his part.
N1 we had to No Kill. Besides, I thought that D3 MyLo at 6:2 would be better than 3:2.
D2 I lurked until Thor came in and gave me a heart-attack. I tried my best to divert the lynch from Ibarra, and I had to watch myself too, which was tough. Uber-buddying with Wraith helped. The No Lynch sucked though. Those shouldn't ever happen this early in a Newbie game.
N2 was a Thor Kill. Obv. Ibarra made breadcrumbs that I didn't even see/register, so that was GREAT on his part.
D3 went well. We just had to push a mislynch, and Hiraki and noraaa was great for us.
N3 we wanted to kill Wraith, but I had to leave him to make myself being alive look less suspicous.

D4 went by too fast.
Wraith shouldn't have voted that early, and noraaa neither.
I was planned for a long-drawn out day; I was going to make a massive scum-buddy hunt before anyone was lynched.
You guys shot yourselves in the foot here.

Thor: You don't need any improvements. Your scumdar was great, but that deadline really screwed you over.
Hiraki: Calling Wraith a blatant mislynch D1 was horrid. If I were town I would've been all over you for that. You did wonderful D1, and I was worried whether we were making a mistake by not killing you N1.
andrew: CLAIM COP NEXT TIME. THAT WAS A HORRID VI MOVE.
Leiskyrie: Be more active, please. You were a good bastion of townieness though.

tj and noraaa: Scum decide who they want to drag into LyLo. Tj was right by saying they wouldn't kill you two; and it was true. We killed townies.

Wraith: Sorry for the massive buddying, but you were 100% town to me since the VT claim. I was very pleased with how the read went.

And I wasn't lying about Wraith claiming VT. I saw that as a massive town-tell and wasn't blowing smoke out my ass.

[Andrius]

He had to claim Doc though, to explain the No Kill N1. Otherwise we would have claimed VT and VT.

I wonder if scum realized when they NKed me that they would suck all the fun out of the thread again

We had to. Killing you enabled me to lurk again.

fun fact: i never claim when im a pr but i claim pr when im vt

Horrible policy.
Horrible VT playstyle.

I'm not sure about Andrius, but if he's scum he's playing a pretty interesting game. I think he and Wraith are prob town though will admit they're hugging up so tight it's almost disturbing.

I'm not sure if the lack of NK was strategy

It was.

And andrew, I purposefully lurked when you got lynched, so that my vote would stay there without me actively supporting it. ^^;

Andrius, like I said, was plausible, but he seems a bit too townie at this stage to be scum.

If someone is too town to be scum, THEY ARE SCUM.

[Andrius]

Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/JhUKivkxsMz3
for inquiring minds.

[Andrius]

Pshhh.
We need to play again, Katsuki.
Because to be frank, I've only seen you play and fail.