Newbie 1010 (Game Over)

[Olinea]

Hey guys, I'll be the replacement for Spadille. It's my first game here, so I'm not sure how effective I can be in scumhunting and how much I may slip up. There may be tells that I'm obviously town and tells that I'm obviously scum. I'll just see how it plays out, I'll review the thread and get back.

As of my first not-so-thorough readthrough,

FoS: neil1113

and IGMEOY for wolf. But my reasoning is kinda weak at the moment, I'll re-read and see what stands out.

[Olinea]

Okay, really short analysis.

All of these votes in such a short time... it seems like that'd be the mafia's goal right? To try and get a lynch going on us and try to take us out... According to the info above, there are only two mafia. So this shouldn't be too hard to get them to expose themselves. My only concern right now is if Civil turns up to be scum. He's a bit more experienced according to the boards, and therefore he can play "Town" a lot easier then others. So to clarify Civil, I have my eyes on you.

Also, Ups it seems like you're posting just to get your name out there so nobody can claim you're "lurking", though you bring no valuable information to the town either concerning yourself, or concerning anything you've seen. Granted, it's day 1 so I'm not too worried about this but you're also in my sights. I'd rather not lose this game to the mafia scum, and so I'll be keeping a close eye out on this game. And if I get killed day 1.... I'll be rather mad. But if Civil or Ups really is scum, it'd be a dead give a way (okay, maybe not OBVIOUS but pretty clear) that you're scum. Just saying.

Now that I've had my say, continue on with your conversation.

This post stood out a lot. I’d read the entire thread thinking Neil is scum, and so far, the only thing I found working for him being town is the fact that he posts quite a lot. I was genuinely surprised when I read that he'd played a ton of Mafia before. He targets Ups for "lurking" right off the bat (I believe this is the second post of the second page). Killing the RVS rather quickly, don't you think?

No. Be quiet Silver.



And Civil I did it way earlier so I could keep notes on the game and get an overview of who claims what, who's provided what info, who's lurked most of the game, ect. It's my default action at the start of every game.

P.S. Silver, you got me there. You're completely right on this one. Goodness gracious, I'd wish you stop doing that. You're making me look bad! I'm trying to impress the girls that read this! Gosh! *cough* scum... *cough*...

The tongue thing is the only standout. Probably nothing. But this is why I suspect silverbullet. Scum obviously can’t avoid each other during the game; they have to act like they suspect each other. Silver and Neil’s interactions seemed very short-lived, but still there. At one point, I think Neil put a vote on Silver but removed it.

Neil seems to be going after the lurkers. Ups, Nevermind, and Yoenit. Going after someone purely based on activity seems scummy to me; it kills conversation. I read that "Shorter days hurt the town". Neil's certainly trying to shorten the days, I think.

Vote: neil1113

[Olinea]

I'll be reading more carefully from now on, since I can view the posts as they're made rather than feeling pressured to read ten pages at once.

[Olinea]

*Sigh*

Oli, you've accused me with things that I have already defended. Please, read a little bit better next time before you make accusations. None-the-less, I'll do it... again.

Anything you say should be able to be used as evidence. Someone could dredge up this post ten pages in the future and use it against me. I still said it. The game isn’t about focusing solely on what was said recently.

1. The fact that I post a lot, would neither prove nor disprove if I was town.

I'm going off of very limited knowledge of how the game is played, I know. But more posting means more discussion.

2. What exactly does that mean? I explained to Civil I believe it was a little bit ago WHY I put myself out there. Maybe you should go reread that?

It was a vibe. I have a feeling I'll be relying on them a lot, at least for now.

3. I gave him a "FoS" if you choose to call it that. I wanted him to speak. That, my friend, is the point of Mafia.

Townies want people to speak for different reasons than Mafia want people to speak.

Neil seems to be going after the lurkers. Ups, Nevermind, and Yoenit. Going after someone purely based on activity seems scummy to me; it kills conversation. I read that "Shorter days hurt the town". Neil's certainly trying to shorten the days, I think.

1. You've got to be kidding me, I'm not even going to respond to that.

I said myself that it's a weak argument. I assume you mean the tongue thing.

2. Wow. Really? Yet again another "Scum Team!" report, with little to nothing to back it up. Please, heed my advice next time and DON'T post theories without proper evidence?

"Scum Team" being the fact that I am aware there are two mafia members?

3. Again, really? First, I followed Ups into voting for him so it'd be more likely if I was teaming with anyone there, it was Ups. Secondly, I was going for the lurkers? Funny, I don't remember posting a single vote on Nevermind, nor on Yoenit. I called each of those three you mentioned out, to get them to speak but I never once put a vote on 2 of those 3 people you said I was using to "shorten the days." Also, I removed it because it was a stupid reason I put it on him in the first place. This, if you'd actually please take the time to read through, I also explained and the reasoning was quite obvious.

My bad. I should have been more clear when I used the term "going after". I don't explicitly mean that you placed votes on them. I mean that people who lurked always got jabs from you.

So to put it simply Mr. Oli,

Since you are new, I have no desire to really "pressure" you for your accusations with little to no proper evidence

There's only one way to learn how the game is played. I don't want a watered-down version of it. Be brutal. Accuse me. I don't intend for this to be simultaneously my first and last game, and I don't want to have to keep playing like this where I pull two quotes out of 8-9 pages of useable material.

, nor with any true scumtells that you pointed out. You also missed very key points (either on purpose, or by skimming through and not actually reading up on me)

The second one, though that applies to everyone. :/

that I've stated that have both, A. Cleared my name for the time being at least from several of your accusations. And B. Put the reasoning behind a lot of what you just questioned, which shows that you truly didn't research me.

I know I need to read it more.

If you'd like to vote for me, that's fine. But please, use evidence that is applicable, not old arguments that are in the dust? Also, I already have a vote on me, so your vote would only push further into the "bandwagon" chance. I'd like it very much if you could take your vote off of me now, that is... unless you have evidence that supports me being scum other than what you have stated, and what I have already disproved (per say.)?

I wouldn't call it a "bandwagon" if I'm the only one who hadn't placed a vote yet and you weren't even a top suspect when I did place it. And what's the difference between "bandwagon" and "placing a vote on somebody who you suspect is scum"? I’m not trying to rush the game along; if I were, I’d vote with the mass every single time. I'm saying that you are at L-3 and it'd take a major slip-up for three people to suddenly take their votes off and lynch you. If the situation were that only Razgriz and I had our votes up on you and seven others didn't, I would definitely do so.

Thanks.[/quote]

I'll stand by my vote. I don't want to halt what was going on before I subbed in. We'll see what happens. I'm not rigid and unchanging in my votes, but unfortunately I am a stubborn person by nature. I will reread the thread more carefully when I have a bit more time so as not to be completely useless to the town. I do not want to intentionally blind myself, both for the sake of this game and all others I will play in.

[Olinea]

3. What do you do about people that bandwagon? -

Look at their motives for joining, and question them. If they're town expect them to work off of evidence, if they're scum expect them to try to mislead.

Sorry to see you go Spadille. Best of luck surviving in the wilderness.

VOTE: unvote Spadille, Vote Vinicius Chaim

Just a placeholder for now, as my vote on Spadille was random and it would be rude to have a replacement enter the game with such a vote on him. Picked VC because he voted on me (screw you argument), was the third voter (scumtell ahoy!) and doesn't seem to have posted much yet.

bandwagon is really scummy, and I knewI'd be accused of it when I voted, but, at least until now, I don't regret my vote, you still are my top suspect so far

Bandwagon claim is kinda tossed out here.

[Olinea]

And one more before I'll probably turn in for the night.

3. What do you do about people that bandwagon?

3. sorry, what's a bandwagon?

bandwagon is really scummy

Either he's freakin' deductive or played dumb. Not sure what to make of that.

[Olinea]

Vinicius, you're not the only one who's in his first game.

and now Oli, accusing everybody like a blind-shooter in the middle of the dark...

All this tells me is that you don't actually have a way to defend against that argument. Not knowing what a bandwagon is (or saying you don't, though I can't see how doing that would be helpful) and then claiming it to be scummy doesn't add up. I'll put up what the explanation was.

A bandwagon (BW) is when people pile on voting for people very quickly either lynching them or putting them a L-1. In the first few days before there are 6-5 people left a bandwagon is considered 3 people suddenly voting. Then the thrid voter is accused of bandwagoning, especially when the reasoning is poor

Look it over; Razgriz doesn't call it scummy at any point. Later on, you see it as scummy behavior; did you do some research or deduce that? After being accused of bandwagoning you just called it scummy and dismissed the claim; that may turn into WIFOM if I think about it too much, but do you have anything to say about it except "I'm not bandwagoning, in order to lynch you're gonna need a third vote"?

[Olinea]

-Oli

Scum obviously can’t avoid each other during the game; they have to act like they suspect each other.

This is actually untrue, a newb mistake that scum members make sometimes is completely ignoring (not interacting with) each other the whole game.

That's what I said.

[Olinea]

EBWOP
Edit:

Just so you don't get confused oh holy oli

Now what you claim is in the above paragraph yet you now say that a newb mistake that scum members make sometimes is completely ignoring (not interacting with) each other the whole game.

I said that scum shouldn't completely avoid each other, then you told me something like "actually, you're wrong, scum shouldn't completely avoid each other". That's the meaning behind the "That's what I said" post.

Silver: I also read Olinea's post with your same initial interpretation. In fact, I do think it was pretty clear that that was the correct reading. He looks to have back tracked a little...which is interesting to me since I was fairly suspicious of Spadille before he left us.

I would like to point out that in the other Newbie game he has played, in about the first 3-real days, nevermind managed to post about 75 times. This is day-7 of this game, and he's only posted a third of that. In other words, he was 6 times more active in his last newbie game than he is in this one, out of the gate. He finished that game with 174 posts.

He also sounds quite about different. In ways I'll explain and breakdown later when I have more time.

I think Nevermind and Olinea are a nice fit, and I also don't want to forget about Ups, though I have a slight town read on him.

Anything Spadille has said, I've said. I await your breakdown of his (and perhaps my) statements and claims.

[Olinea]

By the way, I could stand to go by "holy Oli". Nice ring to it.

[Olinea]

-Oh Holy Oli

Scum obviously can’t avoid each other during the game; they have to act like they suspect each other.

There is no should or shouldn't in above.
This wording says that scum hardly ever avoid each other. They normally act like they suspect each other.
I said oh contrare(sp?) monsieur! There are times that they make the mistake of completely avoiding each other and not mentioning each other.
Thus what miracle have you cast to make your above quote turn into

I said that scum shouldn't completely avoid each other,

Also would still like clarification here.

Paraphrased that last one.

It can be obvious if you don't interact at all with your scumbuddy. Someone'll notice. Of course, there are no definites in Mafia (aside from knowing your role/scumbuddy), so "can't" is the wrong word there.

You then state our interaction has been short-lived (which I'm not sure how to interpret... are you saying that we haven't interacted much?).

Well, if you go off on each other too much, you may accidentally raise concerns that'll lead to one of you getting lynched.

-Civil
Civil my good sir...
You seem to be in a love/hate relationship here...

He looks to have back tracked a little...which is interesting to me since I was fairly suspicious of Spadille before he left us.

Yet before on this very page

I feel a lot better about Spadille's slot and am liking the sound of Olinea.

What curse has the holy Oli cast on you to make such a drastic change?

Enchantments. I don't do curses.

[Olinea]

Well, if you go off on each other too much, you may accidentally raise concerns that'll lead to one of you getting lynched.

This is a pull me around answer where I'd interpret it as you answer my question as yes. Am I correct in this interpretation?

If you are looking for an explicitly yes or no response, my answer is Yes.

However, after a bit of thought, I realize that my only "evidence" for you being scum was the tongue idea, which, in retrospect, is probably the weakest argument in the entire thread. As that has been invalidated, you are now no more scum in my eyes than Civil Scum, Yoenit, Ups, Razgriz, or nevermind. I have a bit of free time now so I will carefully reread for all six of you and perhaps Neil as well so as to get a read without prior bias.

That bumps Vincius up to my #2 spot -- the first still being Neil, for the time being.

Also, if anyone has RVS-style questions they'd like to throw my way in order to shed a bit of light on how I think the game should be played, I'll respond.

[Olinea]

Unvote

I'm gonna need more evidence before I start placing votes. After re-reading, I think Neil has done more than a good enough job to counter the claims I had against him.

[Olinea]

Ups, you gonna post? The thread hasn't seen the album artwork for The Final Frontier in over 3 days.

Vote Count as of Post 287:
Razgriz (2): silverbullet999, neil1113
neil1113 (1): Razgriz
Yoenit (1): Ups
silverbullet999 (1): nevermind
Vinicius Chaim (1): Yoenit
Ups (1): neil1113
nevermind (1): Civil Scum
Civil Scum (0): No one
Olinea (0): No one

Not voting (2): Vinicius Chaim, Olinea

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Vote Count:
Razgriz (2): silverbullet999, neil1113
neil1113 (1): Razgriz
silverbullet999 (1): nevermind
Vinicius Chaim (1): Yoenit
Ups (1): neil1113
nevermind (1): Civil Scum
Yoenit (0): No one
Civil Scum (0): No one
Olinea (0): No one

Not voting (2): Vinicius Chaim, Olinea

With 1 not having posted within the last 48 hours, 0 currently being replaced, and 0 who have requested to not have their vote counted for deadline purposes; 8 votes would be counted if deadline was now, and therefore it would take 5 votes to lynch. Deadline: September 30th@8:00 AM EDT/GMT-4 (12:00 PM GMT). A countdown to deadline can be found here

[Olinea]

Mods, when does Ups's prod go? iirc it's after 72 hours, correct?

[Olinea]

To me, what neil did wasn't that treacherous -- it's not like taking a quote saying "I am scumhunting" and quoting only "I am scum". Oh, but backing up neil after accusing him means I contradicted myself, and are therefore scum, right? We have a lot of middle-grounders as of now (I'm one); the biggest argument here as of now is the Razgriz/neil one, which is ongoing.

Not seeing any major slipups as of yet. I really want Ups to get back in here -- last time I checked his control panel, he hasn't logged in since the 12th (It's the 16th over here); if he keeps this up, he'll become the new Yoenit.

Wow dude. I'm pointing out hypocricy not your paranioa. I said that was one of the attacks on me. But if you want to vote hop Mr. Overreating Hypocrite

Didn't even read this post till after I posted, but dually noted:

Personal Attack #2 from Raz: "Mr. Over(Something) Hypocrite"

I'm not sure if you told me I was fat and that I over-eat, or if you were trying to tell me I'm overreacting?
Either one Raz, is wrong. I'm quite skinny, I don't eat much due to the diet my coach has me on, and overreacting? I'd believe I was fat before I'd believe I was overreacting.

Easy up, it was only a typo.

[Olinea]

Well, I am of course the most important person alive

Excuse me?

[Olinea]

Well, I am of course the most important person alive

Excuse me?

Ditto. What is that supposed to mean? Maybe a cop?

Nah, just a failed attempt at humor, proving once again sarcasm does not work on forums.

Or is it? <insert diabolical laughter here>

I can do humor.

Why'd Simba's dad die?

He couldn't Mufasa.



But seriously, back to scumhunting. Otherwise it'll just turn into an RVS-style discussion.

[Olinea]

Vote: Ups

I'll take this off if he gets replaced.

[Olinea]

In other words, we need Yoenit, Ups, and nevermind?

Has Ups gotten a prod yet? He hasn't been on in almost 5 days, according to his profile, and he never announced a V/LA.

Prodding Ups.

Yes, he has.

[Olinea]

Chaim's still at the top of my list too, but I'm keeping it on Ups until we get some discussion.

[Olinea]

Then

unvote

.

I'm mostly looking at Chaim as well. Now that the Raz/neil thing has died down, it seems information is just trickling out.

[Olinea]

I also have suspicions on Oli (after rereading some of Spadilles stuff, though that could be Spadille playing, and Oli himself I don't really have much to say to. Which is needless to say, why I'm not even going to try and question Oli any.)

Did anyone really suspect Spadille? The general consensus was that he was (is?) pro-town.

[Olinea]

-Gluttonous Never
Read and post thy thoughts

Ooooh, the cordialness has ended. Business time.

[Olinea]

Did anyone really suspect Spadille? The general consensus was that he was (is?) pro-town

I did, though the memory of that long forgotten day has faded. What a strange question... do you have a confession to make or something?

Well, as soon as someone goes under the radar, they become suspect #1. Don't want to be that guy.

[Olinea]

By the way, watching my avatar and listening to "We're Not Gonna Take It" is strangely mesmerizing.

[Olinea]

Welcome Catterpillar!

It's a lot to read, unfortunately :/

[Olinea]

I'm pretty sure we have a cop, and so after night 1 I believe everything shall be made more clear (as far as the direction of the town to go.) I just hope the cop is able to hit gold with his target.

It's a 50% chance.

It's over 50% if

you

are the Cop or a Roleblocker or a Roleblocker partner.

[Olinea]

I think double/triple posting is okay, isn't it? If it's frowned upon, I'll ease up on it.

[Olinea]

2 out of the 4 scenarios have a Cop.

A Vanilla Townie sees a 50% chance of a Cop.
A Cop sees, well, no good Cop would claim on Day 1 unless it gets the town to take down scum.

However, logical blunder; even if you're a Roleblocker, it still limits the number of possible scenarios to 2: the Goon/RB/Cop/Doc/5 Townies and Goon/RB/7 Townies.

So, I guess the only way to suspect anything but a 50% chance on Day 1 that there's a Cop is to be one yourself.

[Olinea]

I'll do the other four tomorrow, but I have a question for everyone, who are your top two scum picks at the moment? I realise that most of you will have recorded this information in your posts anyway but things may have changed since you expressed them and what not.

Chaim's on my radar, I don't know if his defenses are lacking because of the language barrier or the inexperience. He hasn't done anything recently to make me go as far as to push him to L-1. I can't let the whole "He's new here" thing get in the way of voting, because he has just as good of a chance as anyone else to be scum.

I have no solid #2. Neil does do a

lot

of long (thorough?) posts when he is accused. I wouldn't call it paranoia. He's still on everyone elses' level.

Neil, if you don't know what it is already, I suggest you read about Occam's Razor. Simplest explanation is the best one. Sorry if that sounded like an insult; I only found out about it recently, too.

[Olinea]

Anyone who hammers someone without letting them present their case is pulling a major scum move. You're not out and you're not at L-1. Raz is in your position, too.

[Olinea]

However, if someone told me "Either VC or Raz is scum", I'd be inclined to pick Raz as town.

Go scumhunting. Prove your usefulness to the town; dissect posts and show why someone else is a better lynch candidate than you.

[Olinea]

"Bussing" is where the Mafia votes for the other Mafia member. In a high-level game, if people are claiming and I'm scum partners with XXXX, and XXXX is on the chopping block with little hope to save himself, I could say something like "I'm a Cop, I investigated XXXX and he came up scum", hammer him, and then get some good Town points for myself since I hammered scum and people go "Oh, he's a Cop, and he proved it".

[Olinea]

I think he means the unorthodox friendliness seems like a substitute for material.

Which I partially agree with.

[Olinea]

At the moment, REALLY busy. But not busy enough to put this in :/

[Olinea]

I think if VC flips town somehow then the scum are likely to be Olinea and Nevermind, possibly Yoenit.

Mind explaining the reasoning behind this?

[Olinea]

Chaim, if you're gonna tell us "I get Town vibes from everyone", maybe L-1 will motivate you to dissect and find at least one scum target.

Vote: Vinicius Chaim

[Olinea]

EBWOP:

Ah, you set up a case against Raz. Still, if you can get reads for a couple of other people, I'll take this off.

[Olinea]

Hey.... where did everyone go...

[off topic]
-No Nevermind

nelly furtado debut album!!!
Yeah I'm a big fan too

No... you... no I don't love you now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqH2jc_gAdM (17th second)
[/off topic]
-Civil!

Silver (for being too buddy/friendly)

[joke] What!? I thought we were friends! *cries* [/joke]
I'm assuming you mean with my interaction between me and neil?

Ugh quite a bit

-Perverted Caterpie
Hello! Use harden repeatedly and maybe you'll become a butterfly.
Also Read up while you harden.
And keep posting those reads.

-Nelly Neil
Yeah... the IC's job is what civil said...
Responsibilities do not include leading the pack

-holy oli

It's a 50% chance.
It's over 50% if you are the Cop or a Roleblocker or a Roleblocker partner.

Slightly confused from this comment
50% chance of what?
Over 50% chance of what also?

-Gluttonous Never
Read and post thy thoughts

as a follow-up question, it should be related in a way to the original question, which was about bandwagoning.
how could a follow-up question not be related to bandwagoning then?

Patience and you will see my child.

if bandwagoning was clearly defined, you wouldn't be asking "did you think i was bandwagoning you"
it'd be kinda equivalent to asking "did you think i was voting you"

Dearest nevermind... so unique and .... special

Just wanted to note that this is a HORRIBLE comparison.

You are voting me, there is no question to it

It is forever fact

an opinion of one's actions is a different story

It is similar to asking.. do you find me scummy?
or what do you think of him for doing this?

An opinion good sir... an opinion indeed

This is what I meant when I said the friendliness is kind of a cover-up for actually putting stuff on the table.

[Olinea]

His only recent defense of himself is posting reasons to lynch Raz over him. There are two mafia, and so he should have more than one suspect. If he can only pull evidence against one person, it makes him a good lynch candidate.

If you're referring to what "this" is, I voted for him; he's at L-1.

Vote Count as of Post 442:
Razgriz (4): silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim, neil1113, Civil Scum
Vinicius Chaim (2): Razgriz, Olinea
Yoenit (1): Catterpillar
Civil Scum (1): Yoenit
Olinea (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one

Not voting (1): nevermind

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Vote Count:
Razgriz (4): silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim, neil1113, Civil Scum
Vinicius Chaim (2): Razgriz, Olinea
Civil Scum (1): Yoenit
Yoenit (0): No one
Olinea (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one

Not voting (1): nevermind

With 1 not having posted within the last 48 hours, 0 currently being replaced, and 0 who have requested to not have their vote counted for deadline purposes; 8 votes would be counted if deadline was now, and therefore it would take 5 votes to lynch. Deadline: September 30th@8:00 AM EDT/GMT-4 (12:00 PM GMT). A countdown to deadline can be found here

[Olinea]

I'm a newbie Townie, and I'm still dissecting.

It convinces me that he can be useful to the town. As it is, people suspect him as scum; if he flips town, it's not like we lost a well of information. He's gotta convince me that that second part is untrue.

[Olinea]

I've suspected him as scum for a while. Reread my posts. I finally acted on it because I'm slightly concerned about the deadline, even though I know that's irrational because it's 10 days away, and because I, and likely a good number of us, would like to know who he's pointing fingers at and why.

[Olinea]

You've "said" that you "do." Sounds like this deadline reason is something you just invented in order to pre-empt pressure for the vote you foresee in the future.

Just before you said this, you said VC being able to do that would convince you that he would be useful to the town, not that you wouldn't think he was scum. You see how those things are different?

I've got conditions to take it off. The ball's in his court.

I see how they're different, yeah. But if I was 100% sure that he was scum I'd have put this up a long time ago.

[Olinea]

unvote

vote: Raz

Well, that was abrupt.

[Olinea]

The vote was placed because he analyzed only one person. As I keep saying, ferreting out one scum is helpful, but doesn't end the game. There are two of 'em out there, and if he can only get evidence against one, it shows he's holding back. There are still seven more people he could dissect. A "Top 1" list, in my book, isn't very useful because you're essentially saying "If we get one scum, we win". If he gets reads on others, I'll be inclined to believe that he can be of usefulness to the town. Hell, even if they're against me, it shows he's thinking.

Civil, let me add another question to your workload. Suppose Raz gets hammered and flips town, and then scum decide, for some reason, to kill me at night. Who're your next two targets? I don't mean to phrase it like "Who are your #3 and #4, then?", because that's not what I'm trying to find out, but I'd like to see the response.

[Olinea]

and you're falling in your own accusation, I didn't see you point your finger to anyone but me...(correct me if I'm wrong)

Really?

and now Oli, accusing everybody like a blind-shooter in the middle of the dark...

If this is out of context, tell me.

As for the whole "can't pull two lynches in one day", it's not about trying to get two in one day. It's just that you can't stop playing even if we do lynch one. That's why people do breakdowns. That's why Civil Scum has voted Raz and FoS'ed me. Tunnelling (Trying to exclusively target one person for a long period of time) isn't necessary, but staying with the group and responding to what's happening is important.

[Olinea]

And also, I'd think having a few enemies would INCREASE your chances of staying alive Night 1. Having enemies makes you look scummy, and scum need red herrings.

[Olinea]

I'm still gonna wait on his reasons for calling me scum for putting VC at L-1 and then immediately taking his vote off of VC and putting Raz at L-1 without ANY explanation.

Scummy when I put VC at L-1. Not scummy to put Raz at L-1.

[Olinea]

Why wouldn't Olinea ask VC to do what he wanted before placing him at L-1? Ever wonder?

Go scumhunting. Prove your usefulness to the town; dissect posts and show why someone else is a better lynch candidate than you.

Yeah, I probably shoulda told him that scumhunting and picking people apart would get him townie points.

Oh, wait.

I've got conditions to take it off. The ball's in his court.

Handing over responsibility for your vote to the person you're voting...

The only time someone isn't responsible for votes placed on them is RVS.

[qote="Civil Scum"]

I see how they're different, yeah. But if I was 100% sure that he was scum I'd have put this up a long time ago.

Misleading. When did I (or anyone for the matter) say you have to be 100% sure about anything?[/quote]

Just before you said this, you said VC being able to do that would convince you that he would be useful to the town, not that you wouldn't think he was scum. You see how those things are different?

Misleading? I answered your question straight-up. No amount of secondhand evidence can fully convince me that someone is scum or town, even if they claim to be scum, claim someone else is their partner, and then predict the next two nightkills. My 100% statement was because VC had the potential to get me off of his back for a while and dispel a few scummy reads I'm getting from him, and because I can't be sure that he is avoiding dissecting someone else because he's having newbie difficulties or because he thinks it'll incriminate him.

VC isn't in terrible danger right now. I'd like to see a post from him, but I understand IRL obligations may impede that.

[Olinea]

Nah, he's got the right game. Check the first post.

[Olinea]

Yeah, I probably shoulda told him that scumhunting and picking people apart would get him townie points.

Giving someone townie points, and deciding that someone isn't scum, ain't the same thing. Not even close!

I don't know how you visualize it, Civil, but I try and read people on a scale from "Not scum" to "Why haven't we lynched him already?". If you act like a townie by scumhunting and defending yourself instead of rolling over and saying "I'm gonna get lynched, town is -1", I am inclined to believe to that you are townie. You appear to be dealing with extremes and definites, either "town" or "scum", no middle ground. Yes, in this game, there is no "semi-town" or "semi-scum". But I am playing while keeping in mind the fact that there are no "definitely town" or "definitely scum" unless you're a Cop, and it's day 1.

What were the scum points VC got, in your book, over the scum points that say, Raz, got? Why'd you chose VC and not Raz? Especially if you only think VC is scummy to the degree that he could get quickly get town points and get your vote off of him? Why didn't you even that request from him before you voted, and then given him time? Instead of putting him in an immediate lynch situation. You don't want to, or don't have to, or don't care to, hear what he has to say do you? Why not?

He's been contradicting himself very consistently.

and you're falling in your own accusation, I didn't see you point your finger to anyone but me...(correct me if I'm wrong)

and now Oli, accusing everybody like a blind-shooter in the middle of the dark...

3. What do you do about people that bandwagon? -

Look at their motives for joining, and question them. If they're town expect them to work off of evidence, if they're scum expect them to try to mislead.

Sorry to see you go Spadille. Best of luck surviving in the wilderness.

VOTE: unvote Spadille, Vote Vinicius Chaim

Just a placeholder for now, as my vote on Spadille was random and it would be rude to have a replacement enter the game with such a vote on him. Picked VC because he voted on me (screw you argument), was the third voter (scumtell ahoy!) and doesn't seem to have posted much yet.

bandwagon is really scummy, and I knewI'd be accused of it when I voted, but, at least until now, I don't regret my vote, you still are my top suspect so far

There was also the thing with "What is bandwagon?" "Bandwagon is really scummy", but that was taken care of.

And actually, yeah you did give a misleading answer. You defended yourself against a point of mine on the basis that I was acuusing you of not being a 100% sure about something. Which was not implied in my post at all.

I said "yeah". That means "yes". Your question demanded a yes/no answer.



And I'd think if Raz flips scum I'd be the one in hot water, since I'm openly saying VC is scummier than Raz to me. If VC got lynched and flipped scum, you'd be in trouble, Civil.



Anyways, I'm done discussing that vote until Vinicius comes back and either posts a scumread of someone other than Raz or he dodges it and says something that doesn't pertain to the request.

[Olinea]

well Oli, I have two points for you about your frequent ask for my scumhunting, while you're doing nothing about it...

1) I always have a busy week, I only have time to long reads and big posts in the weekend(when I did raz analysis)
2) I had only accused raz till now cause he's the only "very" scum read by now( I have another two slight town read, maybe they get an analysis in this weekend[or not =P]) and I'm not experienced enough to read every "between lines" tells...

1) Then the vote stays until you do. I completely understand IRL obligations, I'm swamped for midterms as it is and I have no idea why I'm on right now. Addicting game, I guess :/
2) You're talking to someone without any experience, either. Only way to get better at tells is to put 'em out on the table. My tongue thing was probably the worst idea to grace this thread, but it refined what was a good point for me.

If you act like a townie by scumhunting and defending yourself instead of rolling over and saying "I'm gonna get lynched, town is -1", I am inclined to believe to that you are townie.

Yet...you believed he was a scum before you offered him the chance to do this.

I believe everyone is a little bit scummy, as I have no way of knowing who is and who isn't.

[Olinea]

I believe everyone is a little bit scummy, as I have no way of knowing who is and who isn't.

Seriously then, why did you only toss out a couple things about everyone, and then choose to vote one of the town's two top suspects, instead of anyone else? Was that just coincidence?

Oh right...you were "worried about the deadline... which is ten days away" XD

You are, once again, dealing with extremes, and assuming I put everyone on the exact same ground and don't suspect anyone above anyone else. That is a ridiculous way to play.

Oh, and while we're at it, mind explaining this little gem I just caught?

Alsright, here's an explanation for you, and for everyone. Raz has been my number 1 suspect on and off. He has the most evidence against him. The other people voting him are some of my stronger town reads.

Carefully read the last sentence of that.

My next 3 suspects would have to be Olinea, Silver (for being too buddy/friendly), and Neil.

Vote Count:
Razgriz (3): silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim, neil1113

Ladies and gentlemen, Civil appears to be claiming that he gets town reads from those who are voting Razgriz, such as silverbullet and neil. Now, if we take a look at his top suspects... oh! What is this?

[Olinea]

vote: Olinea

Using an attack, as if it was an actual defense. Oldest trick in the book brah...

You do realize how hypocritical that statement was, right?

You read my post, right? The one about how you see neil and silverbullet as both top suspects and how you're getting town reads from them? And now you think you can adequately defend youself by placing a vote on me, the ultimate attack in the entire freakin' game of Mafia. You have contradicted yourself once again and I have no doubt you will shrug this post off without a comment, just as you have done with others.

You want me to take my vote off of Chaim? You think there are better targets out there? That I shouldn't be throwing my vote around without evidence? Fine.

Unvote

Vote: Civil Scum

Go ahead. Call it the biggest freakin' OMGUS you've ever seen. But you've been targetting me nonstop ever since I put Chaim at L-1, you attacked me for it, then put Raz at L-1 and claimed it was because he'd been your top suspect on and off. You know what that translates to? "Sometimes I think he is scum, sometims I think he is town". And wordy nothingness is a trick that only works on people who can't read in between the lines.

[Olinea]

[you] put Raz at L-1 and claimed it was because he'd been your top suspect on and off. You know what that translates to? "Sometimes I think he is scum, sometims I think he is town".

That's somehow an unreasonable way for a townie to feel about another player?
You're such scum.

Well, who could've predicted Civil would toss out that argument that isn't even a page old? Or is that too "old" to be brought up anymore? Is it a good defense to bury any atacks on you so they are so far back that they can't possibly be true, even if they're less than a day old?

If Olinea wants to claim that older posts like that contradict present posts, well, that's his own problem.

Apparently I'm not the only one with that problem.

I'd like to know how Yoenit feels about Olinea piggy-backing and following his vote. Especially after Olinea basically said in Post 447, that he was going to wait for a while and then vote for me.

I've payed enough attention to know that you still have yet to give a defense to the accusations thrown your way. All you've done is "vote" which isn't a defense even in the least bit. If I'm wrong, show me?

As for Olinea's, I'd rather wait on that until someone can explain how 'changing your mind' is scummy.

Changing your mind is not scummy. Changing your mind and then backing it up with only “The oldest trick in the book” (Oh, sorry, that post is far too old to be used, we’re dealing with

current

posts, y’know? Ones which have only been posted in the past 5 minutes) by your side is scummy.

Oh Olinea, jeez I almost forgot.

You didn't give me my homework. What's my thing that I have to do to provide you with the satisfation necessary to get your vote off me?

Or did you place VC at L-1 thinking he was way less scummier than me?

What's my thing that I have to do?

Last time I did that, you complained about… what was it again?

Handing over responsibility for your vote to the person you're voting...

Oh, yeah.

[Olinea]

You didn't give me my thing.

Silly me.

Your homework is to nonchalantly ignore all evidence against you.

[Olinea]

Fine, here's your evidence: "You didn't think the same about people at two seperate points of the game. You're a liar! You're a liar!" (Nice argument btw)

Two seperate points of the game? You make me laugh. The contradictary quotes involving Neil and Silverbullet were at 404 and 453. Since then, let's put all of their posts in that duration on the table.

Neil

Way to go Silver, you want to be nice and I try to be nice and now I'm scum. *enter state of depression here.*

(Before anyone corrects this post, this was not a real post. Actually I'm looking over some things right now...)

He admits himself there is no content to this post. It should not have convinced you he is town.

I just really have nothing to say now... :/ I have enough suspicions right now warranting my eye to be set upon Chaim, but not enough to change my vote from somebody I do believe is scum...

He has his eye on Chaim. You apparently don't have close enough of an eye on Chaim, as you removed the vote rather hastily when he was at L-1.

Oli, with 10 days to deadline do you really believe putting him at L-1 is a smart thing to do? (Granted, Civil removed his vote thus removing the L-1 status off of Chaim and now putting it onto Raz which brings me to my second thing...)

Civil, why exactly did you change your vote so sudden, I know you've suspected Raz this whole game so I'm not suspicious of this move so much as I am curious as to know what "nailed the coffin" so to speak?

He questions your vote switch.

Oli,
I understand that, but what if someone new(er) comes on and nails the hammering vote on Chaim, only for Chaim to come up town? What would you do in that position?

Hmm, interesting vote choice Yoenit. Also, I'm very aware that there are 4 votes on Raz and Raz is at L-1. I'm comfortable with that, because out of everybody right now Raz would be my highest suspicion rated person. Evidentially, 3 others believe that too. Though I will admit, unless you have pretty damning evidence against him, I'm going to be looking at you for trying to change suspicions off of two VERY likely scum suspects... >_>

Well, here we go. Civil finally sees Neil as town because Neil both disagrees with my Chaim vote and with Yoenit's vote against you. Enemy of my enemy is my friend. Note to self: if you want Civil to think you're town, vote with him and attack those who vote for him.

Wait, I voted Chaim when you had your vote on him, and I got pounded for it.



Silverbullet, thankfully, had less posts, and much, much less content.

Silverbullet

[off topic]
-No Nevermind

nelly furtado debut album!!!
Yeah I'm a big fan too

No... you... no I don't love you now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqH2jc_gAdM (17th second)
[/off topic]
-Civil!

Silver (for being too buddy/friendly)

[joke] What!? I thought we were friends! *cries* [/joke]
I'm assuming you mean with my interaction between me and neil?

Zero content.

Hey.... where did everyone go...

Apparently this is all it takes for Civil to get a town vibe from someone.

You are, once again, dealing with extremes, and assuming I put everyone on the exact same ground and don't suspect anyone above anyone else. That is a ridiculous way to play.

No, I just didn't see why it was VC that you should neccesarily find scummier than anyone else. And then I realized it was because he already had 3 votes.

Can we get the votecount prior to when I voted for Chaim? Don't worry, I found it for you.

Vote Count:
Razgriz (3): silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim, neil1113
Vinicius Chaim (3): Yoenit, Civil Scum, Razgriz

Yeah, I was definitely bandwagoning on the person with the top number of votes.

But you've been targetting me nonstop ever since I put Chaim at L-1, you attacked me for it, then put Raz at L-1 and claimed it was because he'd been your top suspect on and off. You know what that translates to? "Sometimes I think he is scum, sometims I think he is town". And wordy nothingness is a trick that only works on people who can't read in between the lines.

See brah, I already provided my defense of this, as it turns out, it was also an attack because that followed so simply from your post. So, once again, "sometimes thinking someone is scum and other times thinking they are town" or going back-and-forth on someone, is a PERFECTLY NORMAL WAY FOR A TOWNIE TO FEEL ABOUT SOMEONE.

Does the whole "I'm a newbie townie" only work for Vinicius, or can I pull that one, too? You hid behind this argument to try and justify putting him at L-1. Could I have hammered Raz, said "He is a suspect of mine", and be okay?

I mean, when you read the game and caught up, you never read things from a player that made you think they were scummy, and then further down the road read something that made you question that, and think they might be town?

When I read the game to get caught up, I was inexperienced in scumtelling, as evidenced by the tongue argument. I dare say I'm getting better at it.

Oh, but I'm lying about it. You read between the lines and see that I'm lying... "You're a liar!" That's not an argument. Yoenit's argument is, "You're a scammer. You're running this little scam, plan thing of yours".

Scum deal with lies and trickery. There is a fine line between a slipup and consistently contradicting yourself.

-Olinea has less savory motives; I can tell he is being opportunistic and his suspicions and voting are contrived. Hence I replied, "I'm not lying, you're lying!"

"Opportunistic" meaning placing my vote on one of the top suspects so I could get some discussion out of him? Could it not also be considered "opportunistic" to wait until someone puts Chaim at L-1, argue about it and draw the attention to him, and then L-1 Raz with a FoS to make it seem like you're still continuing the argument?

[Olinea]

You're already done Olinea. Already done.

I realize the enormous risk in building this crusade against you if you flip town. But I'll only stop scumhunting when I'm dead.

[Olinea]

And not your kind of "dead". I mean lynched or nightkilled. And my job is to make scum the former.

[Olinea]

Go Yoenit, Go for it!

Ok now this is just the stupidest thing ever. He ,after putting me at L-1 with horrible reasons, encourages someone to hammer without that L-1 person claiming.

Okay, I thought he meant "Dissect my post, Yoenit!". He pushed a

hammer

?

[Olinea]

No, Raz is confused and remembering things incorrectly

Then what'd you mean?

[Olinea]

You are at L-4, Chaim.

[Olinea]

Then isn't the person in question, the "Guy suspected by everyone" put at L-2, Chaim? Nevermind's vote did put him at L-4.

[Olinea]

By the way, silverbullet, you lurked

so

hard a couple of minutes ago. What's going on with that breakdown you promised?

[Olinea]

Yeah, for some reason you got cut out. Now I know not to trust it :/

[Olinea]

Okay, and my little "summary of Civil's case", for easy reference.

I am a man of facts and numbers. I recognize that, statistically, Civil has a 25% chance of being scum. And, statistically, he has just as good of a chance of being scum as Yoenit, of Silverbullet, of Neil, or anyone else.

But if we voted simply based on "Throw the vote, cross your fingers", this wouldn't be a game.

We've got to find scum. Two of you who read this message know that I'm after you. You're being forced to lie, play the part of a townie, and push mislynches. And you leave trails. Things that don't add up, because there is a human limit to how meticulously you can cover your tracks. I am looking for these slipups. I'll find points at which your thought processes don't add up. Where you claim one fact even though you said the opposite. Civil put himself under my scrutiny by questioning my L-1 vote on Vinicius Chaim. I dredged up posts where his scum reads became town reads -- notably with the example of Silverbullet, who posted 0 content and became a town read simply because I looked scummier to Civil. Where he calls me opportunistic after drawing fire to me and using it as cover to put Raz at L-1. Where he says you shouldn't dredge up old posts and yet cites me nearly 30 posts back for his argument. Saying "using an attack as a defense is the oldest trick in the book" and then placing a vote to defend himself.

Where we are right now, a townie has no reason to lie. Civil has certainly put his fair share of lies out there.

I think this is the breaking point. I think the Day 1 lynch will either be me or Civil. I've made my case about how he backtracks and criticizes those who backtrack. He's made his case about how he finds my evidence flawed even when it has been boiled down to black-and-white "You said X, then quickly changed to ~X without any good reason" or "You are outspoken against Y, but employ Y yourself". We can back-and-forth straw man every point the other makes. We only have one vote apiece.

So, fellow Newbie 1010 players, I pose this question to you. Lynch the guy who'll make sure scum doesn't go under the radar, or someone who defends himself with

Alright, I call BS on this.

?

The choice is yours.



Also, Civil, I will address your points in a short while. Don't think I'll be sweeping them under the table.

[Olinea]

Olinea, what would say to the accusation that you are just trying to get me lynched, you find and present your points only for that purpose?

You mean why do I find reasons to believe that you are scum and make sure everyone else sees them? Maybe because it is my

job

to lynch scum?

[And just because you say "If VC is actually a townie, it's possible that X and Y are scum" DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT run contrary to having town-reads on X and Y.

Aren't you the one who claimed that, if VC flipped townie, then the team was either Olinea/Nevermind or Olinea/Yoenit? You never claimed to have town reads on us. Perhaps I'm misreading this; could you clarify?

Also, Olinea, you misrepresented that point rather harshly. Unless you can show where I said those were my "top 3 suspects."

You represented them as suspects rather than town reads. Yes, they were not your "top 3", but the fact is that someone like Neil, who was #5 on your scum list, could have been claimed as your #4 on the town list.

Another question for Olinea: Who are your strongest town-reads, and why?

Alright, here's a basic rundown on everyone. Not tiered by suspicion or anything.

Civil Scum

: If you don't know my stance on him, you need to actually read the thread.

Catterpillar/Ups

: Barely any information to get out of this. Most of Catterpillar's reads take middle ground as "slightly scummy" or "slightly town". Neutral read until I get more information.

Nevermind

: Lurking VERY hard. He posts very little game content. I wouldn't be surprised if he were trying to go UTR. Scummy read, but without any content I can't exactly solidify him there.

Silverbullet

: I have said that Silver posts little content as well; the manner in which he posted seemed like "fluff" for his posts. Slightly scum read on him, too.

Neil

: Hard to judge. He's taken a bit of a backseat during our argument, but so has everyone else, really. Logical in his arguments. Town read.

Razgriz

: I don't know what the big case against him is. He seems to be a bit like Neil, except he posts a bit more frequently and not just about whoever's attacking him.

Yoenit

: Logical. You're probably jumping for joy, as you seem to have more ammo for the whole "Yoenit/Olinea are scum" idea, but I get town out of this guy. When people wanted him to post more, he did so. I may be slightly influenced by the fact that our votes are on the same guy.

Vinicius Chaim:

Aaargh. You've successfully drawn fire from him, and I question my votes on him simply because the evidence I found against you was a lot more black-and-white than what I had for him. He still has not posted much of value ever since the L-1, rather "Oh, this getting interesting, I should go re-read", but I would put him in the category of Nevermind/Silverbullet. At least he posts a tiny bit more frequently.

That's not something you "visualize", you "feel" it. Unless of course, you have to visualize feeling it.

I am not going to start an argument on cognitive functions. But your wordplay of "You have no idea how to pretend to be townie" is something I can visualize. They're called town

reads.

I am a visual learner. I learn best from seeing and vision. Judging by this, you learn best fro gut instinct. That is not an attack, I just can't phrase it more... scientifically.

like Olinea is claiming with a torch and pitchfork

Good one. Big bad Olinea's the aggressive rage-fueled wackjob.

I called Nevermind out on his lurking to get more content from him...

If there is one thing I agree with you on right now, it is that Nevermind had better start posting some freakin' content.

[Olinea]

And your fabricating evidence?

I don't understand what you mean by this. What do you want me to address?

And no, I am not cleverly denying that claim. I don't know what you mean with this question.

[Olinea]

I'm near-clueless about the case against Civil Scum, my understanding is that he's being voted for being too eager to bandwagon people

Dude, have you even read the past 2-3 pages?

[Olinea]

I can't believe I'm about to do this.

Unvote: Civil Scum

Cue the gasps.

I took a walk around campus today, not because this game is taking a heavy toll on me or anything, just 'cause I enjoy exploring. And I thought about Mafia, how Civil really badly wanted me lynched. And I thought to myself "If I get lynched, Civil's sure to survive the nightkill, either as the perfect scum scapegoat or because he's scum himself".

And then it hit me.

If Civil Scum were indeed scum, why would he push so hard to get me lynched? As soon as I flipped town and Day 2 was upon us, he'd have an enormous target painted on his back. It would be reckless play in order to get one mislynch. He's experienced. He knows 1 townie for 1 scum is

not

a good trade-off.

I really doubt you're scum now, Civil. Unless I'm missing something, trying this hard to get me lynched would be a foolish play to pull. If you are scum, you have the biggest freakin' cajones out of anyone in this game. No. Right now, I think the scum are watching this argument go back-and-forth as we paint targets on our backs.

I don't know what the responses to this are going to be. But I have convinced myself, just by this one tiny little point, that you're town.

Scum, you'd better start posting content before you show up on my radar.

And if the next post underneath this is something like "Interesting... I'm gonna have to go re-read", I'm slapping my vote on you.

[Olinea]

Olinea, I didn't buy your fast change of mind, are you trying to fly under the radar?(yes, It's the same accusation I did to Raz some pages ago)
FoS: Olinea

This is perfectly acceptable. If I were watching someone say something like that I would have suspicions, as Civil could have said that and it would've had nearly the same effect.

And I think it's a bit late for me to start flying under the radar.

[Olinea]

-Oh Oli

I dredged up posts where his scum reads became town reads -- notably with the example of Silverbullet, who posted 0 content and became a town read simply because I looked scummier to Civil.

Wait.. 0 content? Lately mayhaps... I blame time... (I did state that this would occur did I not?... I mean sure it can be held as a false defense... but eh) Earlier today? You are gonna call that 0? Really?

You have just told me that you refuse to follow what is happening in this thread. This quote was from post 505. It referred to two points in which Civil changed his read on you; posts 404 and 453. You posted 2 content-less posts in that duration. I had used that as a claim that Civil was changing reads based on 0 content. And now it's becoming less about Civil and more about how you didn't contribute for a long while.

I gathered all 2 of your posts between 404 and 453. Let me re-display them, for

time's

sake.

Silverbullet, thankfully, had less posts, and much, much less content.

Silverbullet

[off topic]
-No Nevermind

nelly furtado debut album!!!
Yeah I'm a big fan too

No... you... no I don't love you now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqH2jc_gAdM (17th second)
[/off topic]
-Civil!

Silver (for being too buddy/friendly)

[joke] What!? I thought we were friends! *cries* [/joke]
I'm assuming you mean with my interaction between me and neil?

Hey.... where did everyone go...

That is what I was referring to.

And now you have proven to me that you aren't paying enough attention when you read the thread (I hope, for your sake, that you are indeed keeping up). Not putting a vote on you because of this. I am strongly encouraging you to know what is going on.



Civil, I've got two questions, since you're the IC, I hope you can help me out with these.
1. If we get to deadline and we haven't hit a majority for a lynch, does it count as a no lynch or does the person with the most number of votes get lynched?
2. Is it considered bad sportsmanship to hammer yourself if you think it'll help the town? For example, if we're close to the deadline, and I've got 4 votes, would it be a... erm... "dick move" to hammer myself so on Day 2 there'd be a 2/7 chance of finding scum rather than 2/8?

[Olinea]

Then we'd better get crackin'.

I'd like to see reads of

the entire town

from Nevermind, Silverbullet, Chaim, and Catterpillar. Don't try to dodge out of it, like "I don't really know what to think of X or Y or Z". And my BS detector is raging right now, so be honest.

[Olinea]

Also, Civil, if we were the scum team this would probably be one of the most epic plays ever.

[Olinea]

-Arrogant Oni

I kinda deserved that one.

You have just told me that you refuse to follow what is happening in this thread. This quote was from post 505. It referred to two points in which Civil changed his read on you; posts 404 and 453. You posted 2 content-less posts in that duration. I had used that as a claim that Civil was changing reads based on 0 content.

Wait.. sooo if thats the case...
where did this magical quote come from?

Silverbullet: I have said that Silver posts little content as well; the manner in which he posted seemed like "fluff" for his posts. Slightly scum read on him, too.

Oh yeah... I'm NOT reading the thread and following what's happening. Cause you didn't just say that your suspecting me because I have posted little content.

That quote is in reference to post 423. I would bring it back up but it's a bit long to re-quote, I think. It basically outlined all of the content-less things you'd been posting. You certainly have been posting more frequently since then, and with some game-related material, so kudos.

ALSO

I'd like to see reads of the entire town from Nevermind, Silverbullet, Chaim, and Catterpillar

Apparently you don't read Catterpillar's posts... Way to keep up with the thread BUD

Actually,

BUD

, a lot has happened since Catterpillar first threw down suspicions. She labelled me slight town, but I wouldn't be surprised if I have raised a few red flags on myself after the argument with Civil. I'd like current reads.

And my BS detector tells me you lack reads on 7 other people.

LASTLY

Also, Civil, if we were the scum team this would probably be one of the most epic plays ever.

It was a humorous observation. You, of all people, should be aware that not everything posted in here is "RAH RAH GO TOWN".

And I think I could get used to playing slightly scummy. Keeps people on their feet and scum might keep me in for a while in case they need a scapegoat.

[Olinea]

Oh, and I highly doubt at this point that anyone has "super strong town reads" on me.

[Olinea]

EBWOP: God, Civil ninja'ed me so hard :/

[Olinea]

EBWOP:
That what do you think of raz really meant to be what do you think I think of raz..

The fact that you voted for him last page makes me think you've got your eye on him.

[Olinea]

I can't believe I'm about to do this.

Unvote: Civil Scum

well, like I said, I didn't buy this one and got my FoS on him...

I said I understand why you would FoS me. I didn't expect everyone to go "Oh, yeah, he's totally right!".

[quote="Vinicius Chaim"[/quote]

Then we'd better get crackin'.

I'd like to see reads of

the entire town

from Nevermind, Silverbullet, Chaim, and Catterpillar. Don't try to dodge out of it, like "I don't really know what to think of X or Y or Z". And my BS detector is raging right now, so be honest.

why not from you, too?
or we should say: "only them 4 are the suspects, I'm town!"[/quote][/quote]

Page 22. Post 546. I posted scumreads of everyone. Are

you

reading the thread?

BS detector doesn't accept that as a scumread.

Also, Civil, if we were the scum team this would probably be one of the most epic plays ever.

I definately didn't accept this one, you got many scum points in my book...

What did you think I would accomplish by putting this down? It was a

joke

, not a way of saying "HEY EVERYONE CIVIL AND I JUST TOTALLY OUTPLAYED YOU".

2. Is it considered bad sportsmanship to hammer yourself if you think it'll help the town? For example, if we're close to the deadline, and I've got 4 votes, would it be a... erm... "dick move" to hammer myself so on Day 2 there'd be a 2/7 chance of finding scum rather than 2/8?

self attacking?
"I'm gonna kill myself, I'm inocent, but I'm tired of being accused"
come on, I can't understand how you'd be townie after all...

*sigh*
You need to read the thread, Chaim. Or at least figure out what I am saying. I did not ask "Is it bad sportsmanship to ragequit?". I asked this because I thought it would be beneficial to the town if we could narrow the pool on Day 2. I figured, since I forsaw a few votes coming my way after my unvote, that I'd become a target. And, as Civil points out, the deadline is fast approaching, and a no lynch will hurt the town. I figured if it were a couple of hours before the deadline, and I had 4 votes on myself, I'd rather self-hammer than go to no lynch. I'd rather it not come to that, of course, and the game may change quickly. Hell, one unvote just got almost everyone to post.

Vinicius, I speak directly to you right now. Your voting pattern is generating suspicion for yourself. You're throwing votes around very quickly, and usually on the top suspect, which may be seen a bandwagoning or an inability to make your own scumreads. I suggest you throw your vote a bit more tentatively; with more caution and more evidence. It's one thing to be a third vote. It's another to be a third vote every time.

Also, I don't appreciate the "Let's vote Oli so I don't have to post a scumread" mentality we have going on.

I'll try to get around to doing what Olinea requested of me some time today. No promises though

At least you're already closer to fulfulling that request than the other three.

[Olinea]

God, I messed up those quote tags pretty badly :/

[Olinea]

Oh, jeez; 3 haven't posted in 48 hours? What is it, Neil/Yoenit/Catterpillar?

Catterpillar, unless you can find a reliable Internet connection, I suggest you sub out. Although 25 pages of material is a

lot

for a replacement to absorb.

[Olinea]

Silver, how're those 6 reads coming along?

[Olinea]

WARNING: Wall of text

And the pressure's on. I hate to have to pull this out this early, but I'll be roleclaiming now. I'm a Vanilla Townie. I breadcrumbed this twice in much earlier posts.

V

inicius, you're not the only one who's in his first game.

and now Oli, accusing everybody like a blind-shooter in the middle of the dark...

A

ll this tells me is that you don't actually have a way to defend against that argument.

N

ot knowing what a bandwagon is (or saying you don't, though I can't see how doing that would be helpful) and then claiming it to be scummy doesn't add up.

I

'll put up what the explanation was.

A bandwagon (BW) is when people pile on voting for people very quickly either lynching them or putting them a L-1. In the first few days before there are 6-5 people left a bandwagon is considered 3 people suddenly voting. Then the thrid voter is accused of bandwagoning, especially when the reasoning is poor

L

ook it over; Razgriz doesn't call it scummy at any point.

L

ater on, you see it as scummy behavior; did you do some research or deduce that?

A

fter being accused of bandwagoning you just called it scummy and dismissed the claim; that may turn into WIFOM if I think about it too much, but do you have anything to say about it except "I'm not bandwagoning, in order to lynch you're gonna need a third vote"?

T

o me, what neil did wasn't that treacherous -- it's not like taking a quote saying "I am scumhunting" and quoting only "I am scum".

O

h, but backing up neil after accusing him means I contradicted myself, and are therefore scum, right?

W

e have a lot of middle-grounders as of now (I'm one); the biggest argument here as of now is the Razgriz/neil one, which is ongoing.

N

ot seeing any major slipups as of yet.

I

really want Ups to get back in here -- last time I checked his control panel, he hasn't logged in since the 12th (It's the 16th over here); if he keeps this up, he'll become the new Yoenit.

Wow dude. I'm pointing out hypocricy not your paranioa. I said that was one of the attacks on me. But if you want to vote hop Mr. Overreating Hypocrite

Didn't even read this post till after I posted, but dually noted:

Personal Attack #2 from Raz: "Mr. Over(Something) Hypocrite"

I'm not sure if you told me I was fat and that I over-eat, or if you were trying to tell me I'm overreacting?
Either one Raz, is wrong. I'm quite skinny, I don't eat much due to the diet my coach has me on, and overreacting? I'd believe I was fat before I'd believe I was overreacting.

E

asy up, it was only a typo.

I have reiterated countless numbers of times that I am a townie. Here's about as much proof as I can give without screencapping the PM, which is, of course, breaking the rules. If I am hammered, you

will

lose one of your mislynches and scumhunters. If I am hammered, and it's not due to the deadline approaching, take a careful look at the hammerer, as they know I'm telling the truth. I have committed myself to this role, and this role only; if you can find crumbs of "Cop", "Doc", "Goon", "Mafia", "Scum", "Roleblocker", or anything else, they are purely by accident, and I would be sorely tempted to push a hammer on myself out of sheer stupidity (Not really, but you get my point). I realize that my play up until this point has been quite scummy, and it didn't really turn out the way I had planned for it to go; Day 2 I'll try and take less of an aggressive stance. The deadline is fast-approaching, yes, but at least we can take another stab at someone who we think is scum instead of getting rid of a vanilla.

-Infamous Never Failing Raz!

And where are the reasons?

You ask me this but wait... Oli asked this.

I'd like to see reads of the entire town from Nevermind, Silverbullet, Chaim, and Catterpillar. Don't try to dodge out of it, like "I don't really know what to think of X or Y or Z". And my BS detector is raging right now, so be honest.

Where in above does it say with reasons?
Why do you want reasons included?

I figured I didn't need to ask for reasons, as you could easily just pick a number from 1-5 out of a hat and give someone that read. Most of your reads are pretty explanatory based on your play thus far, so I don't need reasons for them all. I'm curious as to your reasoning for the reads for Yoenit and Nevermind though, as they're the ones that surprised me.

I'm going to VOTE: Vote Olinea like others I don't like his comment in post #576 I also don't like him calling for whole town reads from me Nevermind, Silverbullet and Chaim and not wanting us to sit on a fence about someone, how can being unsure about someone be scummy?

Catterpillar, there is a big difference between sitting on the fence about someone and sitting on the fence about EVERYONE. Let me explain.

Starting with

Civil Scum

Slightly town

.

neil1113

Slightly scum

On to

nevermind

's summary!
Dislikes reading long posts yet creates them. Fantastic. I'm getting

slightly town

on him.

spadille

and

Olinea

I'm leaning

slightly town

again on Olinia.

Razgriz

I'm getting a

slightly town

read but I don't know, something in my gut is saying that I keeping an eye on him is a good idea

Trees are boring.

Silver

Mostly town

, a couple of things stick out to me as not so town though

These are all of your reads. These are all, in my eyes, "on the fence". You are bound to be wrong in Mafia at some point. You need to take a firm stance more than once or you will be swayed easily. Your vote will be controlled by the mob and you will be thrown aside once it has been used to do the mafia's bidding. I am glad to see that you seem to finally have been convinced enough to place a vote (Of course, I'd prefer that it not be on me, but that's the game), but keep that in mind.

[Olinea]

Oh, and the breadcrumb posts are #253 and #294, just in case.

[Olinea]

I don't commit to reads before I have the full context, in this case that involves reading through the tread quickly then reading through each iso, for example I was leaning town on you but I'm really not any more.

Yeah, after the L-1 vote I can tell what you think of me.

It's rather easy to breadcrumb Vanilla Townie, why on earth should that change my mind, if you weren't planning on playing scummily then why would you need to? It doesn't make sense.

I

did

plan on playing slightly scummily, mostly so I could stay in the game longer since the mafia tends to kill the most pro-town people out there. However, it seems doing so has caused a large amount of suspicion to come my way and away from the two who really need it. The plan didn't work out the way I had envisioned it going; I have played a lot more aggressively than I think a first-timer should be, which is where I think it fell through.

Who doesn't have a vote on me yet? Yoenit/Neil/Raz/Nevermind. I dunno, for the most part I see these guys are pretty town; Raz managed to get in on the discussion while Civil and I were... erm... "duking it out", and Yoenit was keeping busy for a while, too. Nevermind seems to be trying to kick the habit of lurking, which is good.

Let's see the others' opinions. I may be done for the night, I've got Chem homework and I know nothing about *looks at textbook* effective nuclear charge and photoelectron spectroscopy. Christ. I'll try and get on later tonight. Need to stay active, especially right now.

[Olinea]

*sigh*

Note to self: breadcrumbing doesn't convince people.

At this point, I'm not really sure how I can prevent this lynch. In retrospect, I think this "scummy townie" style is rather selfish; I'm looking out for myself to try and stay alive during the night, but drawing attention away from the mafia. If, by some sort of twist of fate, I end up still alive on Day 2, I'll tone it down. Yeah, we have a bit of time, but I'm sure a number of us are a bit antsy to put an end to this behemoth of a Day 1.

If I come back from Calculus to find myself hammered, I'd like to get my thoughts on the table. Right now, I'm leaning towards Silverbullet and Chaim as my suspects, mostly because Silver appears to try and give the bare minimum amount of information (Seriously, what's the point in putting up a scumread if there's 0 reasoning behind it?) and Chaim because it appears that a lot of his votes are hoppin' on the bandwagons. I'm hoping to see more active participation from Nevermind, Catterpillar, and Yoenit in the next couple of days. Civil is still town to me, or else a gutsy, gutsy scum member (Which I doubt; not the gutsy part, but the scum part). Neil and Raz seem to be town to me; perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention to the Raz=scum arguments, but it's what the gut tells me.

If I've still got 4 votes and people still refuse to hammer really close to the deadline, I plan on self-hammering to narrow the pool.

Nighty night. It's 12:30 and I've got 8:00 class tomorrow :/

[Olinea]

congratz yoenit, you defended your scumpartnet pretty well...

Congrats Chaim, someone didn't hop on the bandwagon and that means they're scum.

so, Olinea, the 4 guys not voting you are TOWN reads? come on! this seems just like "I think you're town, vote for somebody!"

I will say it again. Page 22, post 546. I posted scumreads of everyone. The only one out of there that changed is Nevermind because he's posting now. The other three have been town reads for as long as I can remember.

I think we weren't fighting against good scums, just being blind

What do you mean by this? I interpret this as you saying that everyone else who's had a wagon against them has been town, and I'm the true scum, but please correct me if this is wrong. Because, again, you're the go-to guy if someone needs a +1 for their wagon and to me it sounds like you're calling everyone who's had a wagon up until this point a townie, in which case you've been voting for townies all game.

[Olinea]

EBWOP: "For as long as I can remember" being after my realization that the inflated Neil accusation was foolish.

[Olinea]

Your defense of Olinea can be scummy for you no matter what Olinea's alignment is. Depends on how things play out.

Unfortunately for Yoenit, this seems pretty true. If Yoenit drops a hammer and I flip town, he's looking scummy. By defending me, people can say "Oh, he's scum, he knows it's a mislynch and wants to avoid looking scummy" (Actually, that's WIFOM, isn't it?)

I'd say it's less likely that you'd be both scum, and more likely that Olinea is not but you are. Let me make sure that's not misconstrued. I don't mean that you're more suspicious. I mean I would be more inclined to suspect you if Olinea flipped town, and less inclined if he was indeed scum. But again, I'd have to wait for the flip to really get any useful mileage out of that.

Unless I don't flip and we can redirect this.

That was the thing about Olinea's comments on Silver's posting. I didn't agree that he had been primarily posting contentless. His early posting too, I felt was decent. Even if he was joking with people's names and what not, his early posts almost always had a point to them, and some real discussion of the game and it's players.

Well, as you've said before, there are different stages to the game. Silver had a period where he was, for the most part, content-less, and kinda disappeared during our exchanges (Though I may attribute that view to the fact that I was almost exclusively looking at you). Now he's getting back into it. I don't mind the name manipulation, even "Overconfident Oli" I can tolerate to some degree, it was just that for a period, it was full of fluff. Still, he's fixing that.

I agree with a lot of what you posted, and especially about VC. I attributed the nature of his recent attack and vote to newness only, and chose to ignore it. But looking at it again, or the way you're observing it, VC does not sound very good.

The newness is clouding my judgement of him too; to me his moves are scummy because he's relying on others to do the research for him and then pretty much rephrasing them.

Caterpillar too, in the event that Olinea flipped town, deserves some serious attention imo.

Because of the sudden disappearance and re-appearance carrying an L-1 vote? Of course, I'd like to inspect all people with votes on me a bit further, but now isn't exactly the time for me to continue the aggressive playstyle.

One of the things I didn't like about Olinea dropping his case on me, he never cited his thoughts on my attacks of some of his evidence. He never asked to be excused for his errors or overzealousness (the only two possibilities for a townie to have made those errors), and instead of going over his points in comparison to my defense, or reconsidering/revisiting them, or even trying to push them past and get them "around" my counter-points, he cited different (almost unrelated) basis's's for turning around on me. So it did seem as if he had simply dumped the case when it wasn't panning out, rather than beginning to reconsider his case, which is what you would fairly often reliably expect from a townie who thinks they are wrong.

Guess I should address this while I still can. Fact is, I was admittedly getting a bit flustered too, because you did manage to poke holes in a few things that I didn't notice, and I think I straw manned a few of these things in ways that even I considered weak. For example, I claimed you had Neil as a top scum suspect, but you countered by saying he was your 5th scumread; the equivalent of the #3 townie, and I kinda scrambled to save that one by saying "Yeah, but you presented him as scum". You're a good player, Civil (No, not sucking up in the hope that you'll remove the vote), but your defense wasn't what caused me to drop it. I still believe the whole "Civil wouldn't push so freakin' hard for one mislynch if he turned out to be scum".

I can't see myself switching my vote anywhere else, though I would intend to take it up earnestly in D-2. And if I have been wrong on Olinea, and I helped him get ran into the ground by the real scum-ooportunists, then Olinea, I am sorry

It's all part of the game. If I do get lynched, plenty will be surprised by the flip, I can tell you that.

(God, I have to stop making these mysterious scummy posts)

[Olinea]

It's all part of the game. If I do get lynched, plenty will be surprised by the flip, I can tell you that.

(God, I have to stop making these mysterious scummy posts)

what do you mean by this?

It's split halfway down the middle. Half suspect me as scum, half as town (Or, at least I assume anyone who hasn't put down a vote thinks so of me). Somebody's gonna be disappointed, some will be pleased.

God, I have a lot of changes to make to my playstyle in the future :/

[Olinea]

in case i haven't made myself clear, I want VC to be lynched today.
Except I probably haven't been following the thread as well as you guys, and am missing some stuff about olinea. Either way, I don't find him scummy.

I could go for a VC lynch as well, but that may be seen as bandwagoning.

[Olinea]

Well, I just saw him online a little while ago, but I don't want to call him out for lurking since the "Online users" thing is a bit broken. I may go reread his posts, see if they warrant a vote.

[Olinea]

Well, I was gonna say he's been following Silver's votes very closely, but that isn't actually true; they were on the Raz wagon, and they were on my wagon, but if Chaim is scum I don't think he's giving slipups as to who the #2 is. However, I think he did just lurk there, his name hasn't popped back up on the users list, and he

still

refuses to get a weigh-in on anyone aside from me and Yoenit. I've still got my eye on Silverbullet, but he's a bit more recent of a suspect, and the only reason I took my vote off of Chaim in the first place was to get it on Civil.

Deadline's approaching, and I'd rather we get a 25% chance of getting scum than a 0% chance.

Vote: Vinicius Chaim

[Olinea]

Well, I was gonna say he's been following Silver's votes very closely, but that isn't actually true; they were on the Raz wagon, and they were on my wagon, but if Chaim is scum I don't think he's giving slipups as to who the #2 is. However, I think he did just lurk there, his name hasn't popped back up on the users list, and he

still

refuses to get a weigh-in on anyone aside from me and Yoenit. I've still got my eye on Silverbullet, but he's a bit more recent of a suspect, and the only reason I took my vote off of Chaim in the first place was to get it on Civil.

Deadline's approaching, and I'd rather we get a 25% chance of getting scum than a 0% chance.

Vote: Vinicius Chaim

It really does seem like bandwagoning, do you have any other reason to vote VC than he's not you and has been lurking? There are two scum, I take it Silver is your second pick? Could you outline your argument against him (or direct me to where you already have)?

That was pretty much it. You didn't address the fact that he refuses to give scumreads, presumably on the basis that it could incriminate him.

[Olinea]

I'd like to see reads of

the entire town

from Nevermind, Silverbullet, Chaim, and Catterpillar. Don't try to dodge out of it, like "I don't really know what to think of X or Y or Z". And my BS detector is raging right now, so be honest.

why not from you, too?
or we should say: "only them 4 are the suspects, I'm town!"[/quote]

Pretty much this; he tries to turn it around on me. He's had ample time to post his ideas. The fact that he doesn't is unnerving to me.

Gotta do a Chem lab writeup, and I want more than 6 hours of sleep tonight (Unlike last night), so I may turn in as well.

[Olinea]

Ugh, quote messups again. The part inside the quote tags was my post, and everything up until [/quote] is VC.

[Olinea]

Did anyone note how Olinea quoted Cattepillar many many times, but in the next post named Silver and Neil his top suspects? Get it?

I have never said Neil was a suspect of mine since the tongue incident. Please point this out.

[Olinea]

Sorry, it was Silver and Vincius. Though, my point is -for future refernce- that if my read on you has been correct, then your partner is neither of the two last people you named.

So Cattepillar or Nevermind. Possibly Raz.

So I'm perfectly clear, you;re saying if I die and flip scum, you think my partner is neither Chaim nor Silver?

[Olinea]

God, the website kept going down for me today.

Why would you need to be perfectly clear about something like that?

I need to know what's going on. I didn't understand what you were trying to say, nor do I now.

(That's what I meant btw, by all means, please hammer Olinea. But first announce an honest intention to hammer if it's VC you choose to vote for)

Wait, so you have to state your intention to hammer if it’s VC you’re going after, but not if it’s me? Jeez.

Just because you have competing BW's doesn't mean you need a dual or simultaneous claim. I suggested this idea in a tough decision in a past game, and it was summarily shot down by some wiser than I.

I claimed before VC got a wagon.

The idea is to avoid making a serious mistake, not to make the town's decision easier, or to get "information" on players by such means.

Well, only if they believe you, although it didn't appear to convince any of you 4.

So I just think it would be more proper, and safer/better, if VC doesn't claim until someone says that they are definitely going to kill him. Too close to deadline, with people's activity levels, I realize this approach could be problematic. But at the moment, it's for the best.

Guessing I jumped the gun on my claim? Still, I didn't know what everyone elses' stances on me were. Although a quickhammer w/o claim is a really bad idea.

Imo, this is a strange ass comment to say to the person you're trying to lynch.

He voted Neil (1st most widely suspected person on D-1), then was on the VC wagon, then voted for my wagon, then voted for Olinea. The only wagon Raz hasn't been on was his own.

Raz has never voted for me.

I raised the point, that considering that Olinea unvoted VC to vote me, he would have to assume that I had placed myself in absolutely pointless and tremendous danger to go for one mislynch over some other mislynch.

Actually, come to think of it, I had forgotten you had a vote on Chaim at that point. I was more focused on

me

being lynched.

Now, I didn't realize it at the time, but in his change of heart post, Olinea doesn't reason this in the same way. He just claims to be going off the basis that I wouldn't of tried so hard to get the -one- mislynch, on him. (Which makes sense, if we consider his experience, realizing/thinking as scum that running through a Civil mislynch this game would have landed him in hot water). Not only is it a little tenuous to propose that no IC (my experience is supposedly factored into his reasoning) had ever gotten carried away, or done it by mistake, or pushed a mislynch really hard and got away with it (rest assured I've done this many times irl),

Didn't know it was possible to get away with something like that, actually; though by this post it seems almost like you're trying to tell me "Don't be so quick as to label me town for the rest of the game".

It was not totally clear whether or not he still did inbetween then and now, until he used his past suspicion of him just recently. He should be now, or during the interim depending on "when" he began leaning towards VC again, "closer to the fence on me." If VC were scum (compared to the mislynch to mislynch thing I would have done), if VC were scum, then I'd have much much more reason to have taken a chance at nailing a townie (if I thought I had a good shot at it- like when there are two top suspects, and going to be plenty of votes with perhaps not the most original reasoning given, at a relatively good time for me to "change my mind" and "sorry, guys, damn, messed up on that one, it happens a lot") and saving my scum partner in the process. I know I said I'm not sure if I would think the risk would have been worth it, but it is FAR AND AWAY a less gray area of WIFOM than VC and Olinea being townies and me still jumping all over Olinea.

It's like you

want

me to suspect you and Chaim.

If Olinea really suspected VC now, or in the interim, it should have seemed more reasonable that I could be scum and would have tried to drive a lynch on a townie who looked opportunistic. If he though VC is scum, then he shouldn't have a feeling of "I'm certain of your townieness on this tiny point." And at the least, he should be closer to the fence on me than the extreme area he claims his read is in now.

I wouldn't consider myself really "opportunistic", or does that refer to Chaim?

The explanation for this has two likely possibilities in my mind:
1- He doesn't really suspect VC.
2- He knows VC is a scum, and I am a townie. And because of that, failed to factor "thinking" VC is scum into how his read of my play should be affected.

I may be new, but even I can recognize that starting a wagon at L-1 against my scumbuddy with two days to deadline is close to the worst possible move I could pull. The worst being something along the lines of saying "Hey guys, just kidding about that Townie claim, I'm really a One-Shot Vigilante!".

It really is time to send him back to his Mod.

Yikes.

[Olinea]

-Personally, this would be the most sure I have ever been on someone, and been wrong.

What do you mean by this?

[Olinea]

I'll answer that as soon as you explain why you felt the need to be prefectly clear the thing at the top of this page.

Top of post 667. I would like to know what is going on in the game, especially when it pertains to me.

Vote Count as of Post 685:
Olinea (4): Civil Scum, silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim, Catterpillar
Vinicius Chaim (4): nevermind, Yoenit, Olinea, Razgriz
Razgriz (1): neil1113
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one
Yoenit (0): No one
Civil Scum (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one

Not voting (0): No one

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Vote Count:
Olinea (4): Civil Scum, silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim, Catterpillar
Vinicius Chaim (4): nevermind, Yoenit, Olinea, Razgriz
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one
Yoenit (0): No one
Razgriz (0): No one
Civil Scum (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one

Not voting (0): No one

With 1 not having posted within the last 48 hours, 0 currently being replaced, and 0 who have requested to not have their vote counted for deadline purposes; 8 votes would be counted if deadline was now, and therefore it would take 5 votes to lynch. Deadline: September 30th@10:00 AM EDT/GMT-4 (2:00 PM GMT). A countdown to deadline can be found here

[Olinea]

Bird1111, I'm a bit unclear as to one part of the rules: are people allowed to talk during the "twilight" phase?

In-thread may continue during it, night-time out-of-thread communication may not begin until night actually falls.

[Olinea]

Okay, so here's the deal.

If Neil doesn't show up and hammer either me or Chaim either later today or tomorrow by the time I go to bed (I'm in California; I think that's GMT-8), because the deadline is 7:00 AM for me and I don't need to wake up that early, I will selfhammer before I go to sleep.

[Olinea]

Is Neil back from his training yet? Seems like the balance rests with him.

T-minus about 12 hours until a deadlock means selfhammer.

[Olinea]

He is gonna selfhamer

12 hours before the deadline

, surely there is anybody online in that time who can hammer him for breaking that promise? I am at least, but I think Civil hammering VC is a better idea.

Actually, if my math is correct (I used an online time zone comparer thing, so I think it is), the deadline for me is 7:00 AM; if anyone wans to double-check, I'm in California. Latest I'll be awake is, like, 12:00 AM for me. So someone's dying at midnight. Sorry to sound ominous, but at this point it seems, like, 80% likely that I'll be the first lynch, either because someone changes their vote or because of self-vote.

If Civil hammers VC, I survive the nightkill and get lynched day 2. No scum with even a shred of good judgement would kill me tonight if VC gets lynched unless he flips scum.

I am not self-hammering right freakin' away because I still think VC is scum. It's best that someone else drop the hammer, of course, which is why I haven't done it right now.

@Civil, if VC does get lynched and flips scum, will you still push a lynch on me? You appear

quite

intent on it happening.

@Silver, if you think I won't uphold my promise, if we have a Day 1 No Lynch then I will be the first person on my own bandwagon Day 2.

I laughed from catter and civi arguement heh.

Humor isn't tolerated here, remember? Humor = scumtell.

[Olinea]

Son of a...

Horrible quote job there. Fixed it.

He is gonna selfhamer

12 hours before the deadline

, surely there is anybody online in that time who can hammer him for breaking that promise? I am at least, but I think Civil hammering VC is a better idea.

Actually, if my math is correct (I used an online time zone comparer thing, so I think it is), the deadline for me is 7:00 AM; if anyone wans to double-check, I'm in California. Latest I'll be awake is, like, 12:00 AM for me. So someone's dying at midnight. Sorry to sound ominous, but at this point it seems, like, 80% likely that I'll be the first lynch, either because someone changes their vote or because of self-vote.

If Civil hammers VC, I survive the nightkill and get lynched day 2. No scum with even a shred of good judgement would kill me tonight if VC gets lynched unless he flips scum.

I am not self-hammering right freakin' away because I still think VC is scum. It's best that someone else drop the hammer, of course, which is why I haven't done it right now.

@Civil, if VC does get lynched and flips scum, will you still push a lynch on me? You appear

quite

intent on it happening.

@Silver, if you think I won't uphold my promise, if we have a Day 1 No Lynch then I will be the first person on my own bandwagon Day 2.

I laughed from catter and civi arguement heh.

Humor isn't tolerated here, remember? Humor = scumtell.

[Olinea]

Obligatory "bawwwww" post

[Olinea]

I'll keep you guys in suspense. Wait for Bird to post the flip.

[Olinea]

Well, it was a great game. You both deserve the win -- you played very well. Yoenit was probably the most pro-town player out there to me, but that's the element of good scum play.

Apologies for being a bit of a messmaker Day 1. Learned to tone it down from now on :/

I thought I'd have more to say at the end of this. Again, congrats on the win, you two.

[Olinea]

Also, I thought Catterpillar's profile said "Female". Everyone kept calling her "him".

[Olinea]

That reasoning was a general mess.

Okay, really short analysis.

All of these votes in such a short time... it seems like that'd be the mafia's goal right? To try and get a lynch going on us and try to take us out... According to the info above, there are only two mafia. So this shouldn't be too hard to get them to expose themselves. My only concern right now is if Civil turns up to be scum. He's a bit more experienced according to the boards, and therefore he can play "Town" a lot easier then others. So to clarify Civil, I have my eyes on you.

Also, Ups it seems like you're posting just to get your name out there so nobody can claim you're "lurking", though you bring no valuable information to the town either concerning yourself, or concerning anything you've seen. Granted, it's day 1 so I'm not too worried about this but you're also in my sights. I'd rather not lose this game to the mafia scum, and so I'll be keeping a close eye out on this game. And if I get killed day 1.... I'll be rather mad. But if Civil or Ups really is scum, it'd be a dead give a way (okay, maybe not OBVIOUS but pretty clear) that you're scum. Just saying.

Now that I've had my say, continue on with your conversation.

This post stood out a lot. I’d read the entire thread thinking Neil is scum, and so far, the only thing I found working for him being town is the fact that he posts quite a lot. I was genuinely surprised when I read that he'd played a ton of Mafia before. He targets Ups for "lurking" right off the bat (I believe this is the second post of the second page). Killing the RVS rather quickly, don't you think?

No. Be quiet Silver.



And Civil I did it way earlier so I could keep notes on the game and get an overview of who claims what, who's provided what info, who's lurked most of the game, ect. It's my default action at the start of every game.

P.S. Silver, you got me there. You're completely right on this one. Goodness gracious, I'd wish you stop doing that. You're making me look bad! I'm trying to impress the girls that read this! Gosh! *cough* scum... *cough*...

The tongue thing is the only standout. Probably nothing. But this is why I suspect silverbullet. Scum obviously can’t avoid each other during the game; they have to act like they suspect each other. Silver and Neil’s interactions seemed very short-lived, but still there. At one point, I think Neil put a vote on Silver but removed it.

Neil seems to be going after the lurkers. Ups, Nevermind, and Yoenit. Going after someone purely based on activity seems scummy to me; it kills conversation. I read that "Shorter days hurt the town". Neil's certainly trying to shorten the days, I think.

Vote: neil1113

When I talk about my progression through Mafia, you can bet that the "smiley face" reasoning will be the biggest example of horribly bad logic. "Killing RVS quickly", well, now I know that ending RVS is good. Forget why I thought that ending RVS was scummy. The second part of that was good, it kinda pointed out how your reasoning on Yoenit was faulty, but Yoenit was just

so

pro-town to me that he never came up on my radar.

Question for you, Neil. When you said "1 of those 3 is scum" when you claimed Cop and narrowed the suspects to Civil, Catterpillar, and Yoenit, was that really a slipup?

[Olinea]

I think oli sort of heavily helped this game in your favor... a long with raz...

Oh, I definitely did. :/

Not too sure about Raz. I had him pegged as town all game, wasn't too sure what the case on him was.

[Olinea]

Damn, I seriously did like half the scum's work this game

I take a decent amount of credit for that one. I remember saying "The scum are probably watching our argument right now and laughing to themselves" or something, and I'll be damned if that wasn't spot-on. I agree that you raised suspicion, but at least you were honest. When I went back on my argument thinking "He wouldn't push so hard if he knew I was town", you told me that people have gotten away with pushing a mislynch. Played a good game, I think. You have nothing to be ashamed of.

My opinions:

Town MVP:

This is kinda hard to decide. I'd probably give it to Civil for staying active (i.e. not lurking) and being logical in his arguments.

Scum MVP:

Yoenit. Sorry, Neil, you raised more suspicion in my eyes then Yoenit did. Had a lot of us fooled, as evidenced by the dead QT.

I'd like to see Razgriz's thoughts on the game. He took a much longer V/LA than expected, didn't he?

[Olinea]

Yeah, according to Raz's profile, he still hasn't logged in since Oct. 6

[Olinea]

Is Chaim still around? I'd like to see what he thinks, too.

[Olinea]

Who would you call as MVP for the town, then?

[Olinea]

If Chaim and Raz suddenly reappeared (not likely) I would totally be up for playing this again.

Anyways that's my final bump. Once again, great game all around, and hoping I'll play with you guys later down the road.