Newbie 1027: Trick or Treat! [Game Over]

[Huntman800]

Hi, I'm excited for my first game, so let's get this started!
VOTE: SomeRandomGuy
(Reason? Random.org spat out 4)

[Huntman800]

Oh, then should I now type:

Vote: SomeRandomGuy

?

Whoops. I guess I was

too

excited to notice that.

Also, any reason my name is now "Mr. You-Are-My-Top-Scum-Candidate-ATM"?

[Huntman800]

Hey. Looking forward to playing with you all. Just a few random questions I like to throw out so we can all get to know each other like special friends
1) Have you played mafia games before? (on this site, other sites, or in real life)
2) Where are you from?
3) Why the profile name?
4) Do you believe anyone caught lying should be lynched?

1) Only in RL, but haven't done so in a while.
2.) New York
3.) Don't really know, sorta my first and only online alias. The 800 is random
4.) Depends

And now to vote (again):
@@

VOTE: SomeRandomGuy

That good? I don't know why, but I originally assumed the @@ was there instead of putting the phrase in quotes, my bad.

[Huntman800]

Do people fight like you two in real games?

Meh, I won't say anything else in fear of taking a side.

[Huntman800]

Well, to be honest, I'm still a little lost. I don't know what to think right now.

Just a thought, but could Maniamax seeming to try and avoid helping to lynch someone (being sorry after adding a vote to someone who has already been votes for) possibly be a newbie town tell? Just a psychological unwant to be responsible for an innocent death? Or am I just underestimating things? Like I said above, I'm not really sure what to think right now.

[Huntman800]

Judging from your all annoyed, amped-down behaviors and playing with calculations, I drew the conclusion that you are actually in the stage of sheer frustration. Of NOT BEING SCUM.

Accidentally clicked Thor's Wiki page, does this do anything to invalidate the main point here?

Mostly I ended up feeling guilty for being scum because I think I discovered I'm a town player at heart

I suppose it could be nothing, as from reading that page, you'll find that was really his only (other than ongoing) scum game. But maybe that uncertainty is my newbishness talking. I mean, it's possible that Thor lied on the page (I think?) but wouldn't it be more likely that he would

not

want to be scum?

'Course, I don't know much about the differences between real and newbie games, so I might not know what I'm saying. None of this really changes my stance on voting, for now, so I'm just throwing it out there.

[Huntman800]

hunt gets a C- for sitting on the fence.

How does being unsure in my first game make me scummy? I suppose a 'C-' is better than an 'F' but still, isn't it possible that I am just truly unsure of what to do?

[Huntman800]

Well, here goes nothing:

To Thor's Question

@Huntman - who do you think is the scummiest player here currently and why?

All right, so this one is a little out there, but I kinda want to say that I'm suspicious towards you and Park. No matter how much you two fight, Park calls you innocent, and I still can't figure out why he said that. Especially considering his mention of you being frustrated for not being scum and my earlier quote of your Wiki page: those two facts contradict each other. Also look here:

Only way I see Huntmanscum at this stage is if Mania is his buddy.

That's from when I asked if Mania could be proved innocent, couldn't that logic apply here too? Thor + Park could be scum buddies, and that's why Park denies Thor having any scumminess without a reason.
And Thor's position on the argument makes sense (though a lot less of it) because if Park does turn out to be scum, and considering we are newbies, who among us would then go for Thor for the next 1 or few days? Like I said though, that's my weaker point.
No question for Thor then, but Park:

(

Park

What do you think about Thor stating (out of this topic) that he doesn't like being Scum, does it change anything in your argument for stating that he's frustrated?

And Guderian

huntman, what do you make of the current debate between thor and parknourie?

Like I said, I'm not sure if the point is simply Thor trying to prove that Park is scummy. Maybe there's something more, maybe I'm just an idiot.

How was that for my answer? =/

[Huntman800]

@andrew: It

has

to? Why? Would it be more or less obvious that they were 'bussing' if they called each other guilty, I'm only asking you because I'm not sure that the average is for other games here.

[Huntman800]

Park, lemme do this again:

Check this page

On that page Thor states:

Mostly I ended up feeling guilty for being scum because I think I discovered I'm a town player at heart

See?

[Huntman800]

my point is you are maniamax are oppurtunistic scum
geez

I'm not getting any real scumminess from Mania, care to explain?

[Huntman800]

Andrew: Your description of him would have been a decent one for me had Thor not pushed me to ask question. It

could

be a tell, but it could also be the same uncertainty/shyness I have since it's my first game. I guess it could go either way though.

[Huntman800]

@ Huntman:
1) What do you make of Park’s case against Mothrax?

First, I can't say anything specifically about how Park claims Mothrax is a possibility because of the fact that he is SE (I see why rolepicking would be totally random, but I also see why it could be expectable for one experienced player to be in that mix). However, the post in where he first switches his vote to Mothrax is really odd:

Ahh.. i get you now. How foolish of me to push on that my-logic but not do it myself.
Yeah. I think that might just be it.

That much sounds like sarcasm, but the way it's phrased almost confuses me.

@@Vote: Mothrax

If the above

was

sarcasm, it seems weird for him to change his vote.

He seems like a decent choice option for me who has an opinion that at least ONE of the more-experienced people are scum.

While this is odd too me, I don't have much to say about it because of what I said above.

---

As for Park's next post, he only really elaborates on the fact that Mothrax immediately joined a wagon after returning from V/LA (which I just found out means vacation/limited access!). I'm not sure what to say about that.

All in all, Park's case just makes me more suspicious towards Park. However, the suspicion I gained from those posts isn't backed by any solid proof, so I don't really feel like I can act on it. As for Mothrax, he still comes up as null for me.

Also: @Park: Correct me if I missed it, but you still haven't answered my question. When I explained that your reasoning as to Thor being frustrated is pointless, you simply replied that it goes against what you were thinking, and then continued the mindset you had before. I want some more from you about that.

[Huntman800]

Park, ignoring the fact that my gut screams to not accept letting you restart, I have another question:
Having seen my post, do you have nay

other

reasons for Mothrax to be a scum? He doesn't seem like a candidate at all to me.

[Huntman800]

Should you get the chance, you obviously know you're at L-1, and we'll see how things play out. I'd be surprised if you voting for Mothrax actually takes off, but I suppose anything's possible at this point.

Anyway, before I log off for today: POW! ===[]

[Huntman800]

Lots of post since I left, so let's get my post started:

First, my vote on Andrew is still there because of RVS, and while I feel there's no strong reasoning that I really need to withdraw it (he is neither in danger of a hammer nor anything else for that matter), I suppose I will just ------
@@

UNVOTE

I suppose the real bulk of what happened while I was gone has to do with Andrew's feelings towards Gude for unvoting after Thor. To be brief,

I find this argument incredibly pointless.

The possibility of it being a scum slip-up seems rather small to me, and not worth any suspicion. However, I guess if any further behavior from Gude does occur, then I'd be willing to acknowledge this as part of the case.
That's all I can really think to say now.

Preview Edit: Pressing preview, I see no other posts than the ones that were there when I pressed reply,

[Huntman800]

@Huntman -
1) What do you make of the Parknourie wagon loosing its momentum?
2) How scummy do you rate Parknourie in relation to others?
3) If you were scum, who would you nightkill?

1.) It isn't really. Thor unvoted because he didn't think we were ready for L1, and Andrew, well I admit I'm not entirely sure about him yet (but that doesn't mean I'm leaning towards scumminess). As for the people that are getting second thoughts because Park said he would "restart": Don't. I'm willing to listen to whatever Park has to say, but he can't erase all that suspicion by just saying he will try again. If anything, that just sounds odd to me.
2.) Park is still up there. Like I said, I can't erase my scummy feelings towards the guy because he told me to, but at the same time, I'm not going to outright call anyone mafia yet.
3.) If I was scum, I'd NK either myself or SAMBO. Probably leaning more towards SAMBO. 'Course, I don't know if this is the right choice (never been Scum before), but we (more specifically SAMBO) seem to have the least suspicion pointed at ourselves thus far. The way I see it, if the blame is being thrown around like this, then let someone else get lynched.

Though, @BAZZ: Why ask the third question? What are you hoping to discover by it?

@Hunt - Andrew is town. He's aggressively scumhunting, being loud and proud of beliefs, and making maneuvers that are not optimal for scum. He's a pretty solid town read for me. ...his cases are pretty weak though
What are your thoughts on Guderian?

Like I said, I don't feel any scumminess resonating from Andrew, my vote on him was purely because of RVS. It sounds like you are saying I thought Andrew was scum, but it could have just been you agreeing with me.
As far as Gude is concerned: did you make this post before seeing my above post? Check #181, but if that's not clear enough I can explain it further. Gude doesn't look scummy to me. There doesn't seem to be a reason for him to lie about not seeing your (Thor) unvote, and even if he is, there isn't enough evidence other than that to get any kind of read on him. So, I don't see him as scum, but he hasn't done incredibly much to make me think he is town either.

Gude is null as far as I can see.

[Huntman800]

... and that put's us back at L2 (correct?). Anyway, time for me to post more on Gude:

First,

@Andrew:

Where did he rolefish? And ummm, well this is kinda embarrassing, but what exactly is rolefishing and how does it make for a scum tell?
Second,

@Thor:

I agree with Gude, we need more concrete evidence from you on his scum case, I'm looking forward to see what you have to say in your next post. Try and include more examples of him trailing your moves and (if applicable) explanations of the scuminess of each action.
Finally, and most importantly

@Guderian:

I'm not at all ready to point my finger at you, however you're becoming a little more scummy with each post, so I got a handful of questions:
1.) What reverse your read on Park? And why was it so drastic as to put him so far away from scumminess?
2.) You say your reasons for Mania being scum have already been stated, though all I could find was: He wasn't trying hard to find scum. Forgive me if I didn't read your posts thoroughly enough, but it seems odd for you to push Park to the back and pull Mania to the front of your list of suspicions for only one reason... Once again, if you've said anything else about Mania, please tell.
3.) So, you're against Mothrax for the same reason as above, and because you don't like him? How can you get bad vibes without getting good insight? Is it at all possible that Mothrax simply hasn't provided you with enough information because he hasn't been on enough (Haven't ISOed him...)
4.) As for Thor, you're against him because he is suspicious towards you AND a SINGLE other post? Any

good

reasons?
5.) So, it in all it seems that your list is filled with uncertainty, through this game you have yet to provide sufficient reasons to go against any player on that list... Besides Park. Yet, he did something to completely change your reasoning?
All right, I may have lied. Unless you can come up with answers to these questions, you are looking a little scummy right now. Plus, as I typed this I realized something more:

The negative read I'm getting from you (Guderian) is based solely off of your sudden change in attitude towards Park. And, considering you did not see Thor's unvote, you unvoted Park when he was at L1. So I guess I lied a little more than I thought when I said you weren't scummy. Suddenly, when Park is in danger of a Hammer you remove your vote.

My Most Wanted

1.) Park -- I can't let all my suspicions towards you go, not yet
2.) I didn't want to say this but: Guderian -- Typing this post changed my views, as it pointed out some odd bits. Please though,

if anyone has a reason why my ideas are null, speak up

If this list looks scummy then forgive me, but you'll have to specifically ask me to give reasons as to why everyone else is either null or town. (Who knows, maybe typing that post will get my thoughts together more as well)

[Huntman800]

Finally, and most importantly

@Guderian:

I'm not at all ready to point my finger at you, however you're becoming a little more scummy with each post, so I got a handful of questions:
1.) What reverse your read on Park? And why was it so drastic as to put him so far away from scumminess?
2.) You say your reasons for Mania being scum have already been stated, though all I could find was: He wasn't trying hard to find scum. Forgive me if I didn't read your posts thoroughly enough, but it seems odd for you to push Park to the back and pull Mania to the front of your list of suspicions for only one reason... Once again, if you've said anything else about Mania, please tell.
3.) So, you're against Mothrax for the same reason as above, and because you don't like him? How can you get bad vibes without getting good insight? Is it at all possible that Mothrax simply hasn't provided you with enough information because he hasn't been on enough (Haven't ISOed him...)
4.) As for Thor, you're against him because he is suspicious towards you AND a SINGLE other post? Any

good

reasons?
5.) So, it in all it seems that your list is filled with uncertainty, through this game you have yet to provide sufficient reasons to go against any player on that list... Besides Park. Yet, he did something to completely change your reasoning?
All right, I may have lied. Unless you can come up with answers to these questions, you are looking a little scummy right now. Plus, as I typed this I realized something more:

The negative read I'm getting from you (Guderian) is based solely off of your sudden change in attitude towards Park. And, considering you did not see Thor's unvote, you unvoted Park when he was at L1. So I guess I lied a little more than I thought when I said you weren't scummy. Suddenly, when Park is in danger of a Hammer you remove your vote.

Chkflip, I

did

think of Gude as totally null, however after ISOing his posts (as I did above) I became a little less sure. Your thoughts now that you've seen this?

Also, you do know you can cut the important bits out from quotes, and only show those, correct? It seems like you're just trying to make your posts seem longer by filling them with quotes, when in fact, your actual reasoning takes up much less space.

[Huntman800]

All right, so I might not have read those posts as close as I should have, so

for this I will be purely addressing my thoughts on Chk

(if you had posed a question to me and it hasn't yet been answered, please make it clear ASAP)

After ISOing Chkflip, my read is... Scummy, now for more insight:

1.) His initial vote on Park that changed quickly to Gude is suspicious. The actual post where he addressed the issues with Park (215) has little actual reasoning and is mostly filled with way more of Park's words (due to a number of quotes) than necessary. From what I can tell, his reasons seem to be: Being irked by Park's word choice (in this situation, it's probably better that he changed his vote because of this stupidness behind this reason), and that Park contradicted himself. All right, so right now it looks like changing his vote was good to ease suspicion. However, there is still the fact that he jumped on

Park in the first place with no reason

. Could be nothing, or, and I'm simply throwing this out there as a possible idea, it could have been an attempt to get into Twilight by getting rid of a townie (in which case: -1 suspicion towards Park) that was quickly changed when Chk realized it wouldn't work. Of course, there's not really a way to tell if that's even a plausible idea.
2.) In his next post, he says he doesn't do random votes or waste posts. This strengthens #1 on this list. After that he says he made post 215 as an attempt to come off strong. No.
3.) Next he claims that Gude and Me could be a scum team because of the nullness we are showing to each other. Other than the fact that everyone knows that I am town, the idea is void before it was even posted as I had just explained how Gude might be scummy. Possible that he may not have saw it, possible that he's trying to find more reasons to blame Gude and maybe me.
4.)

@Chk

: You say that Gude was framing you because you both are scumbuddies? This post is confusing to me... Anyone else feel that way?

Hmm... How many reasons is that really? I guess he is decently scummy then, not enough evidence to fully sway in Chk's direction.

Overall, I think I'm still leaning towards Gude right now, so I won't vote because it would put him at L1. Also, there are a handful of people that have yet to answer some of my questions, but I'm not really sure who they are. If I bother to ISO myself, and I find out what has yet to be answered, I'll ask it again (should the Q still apply)

My scum candidates (in no particular order): Chkflip, Gude, and Park. That is all.

[Huntman800]

and puts [Gude] as one of his top three suspects.
@Hunt - Why is your read on Gude now scum? Your ISO #17 presents only a few wisshy washy reasons, and other than that you haven't really presented/contributed to a case against him. Are your reasons the same as andrew and Thor's, or do you have others?

For one thing, the reason he is in my top three is that I only

have

three suspects. As far as me changing my ideas, when I posted 16 (on my ISO), I hadn't really ISOed him, so when I said he was null, I was referring to how people were mad at him for 'not seeing the preview edit' and how that was a stupid reason. As I wrote 17, I realized he wasn't as null as I'd though. Now for an ISO...
My Reasons Against Gude: (I wrote these without reviewing other player's reasoning, so if anything overlaps, it's because I actually think it)
1.) I don't see how all of my reasons in 17 aren't good. If Gude really wasn't following Thor, then his complete reversal in opinion against Park seems suspicious. Also, while he may have had a reason to vote Park, once he unvoted he started to provide reasons that... Well, they weren't very good.
2.) As for things that I didn't list in 17: Overall, I've seen extremely little reasoning out of him. When he first votes for Mania it's only to "create pressure", yet it could also be that he's trying to seem like he's doing something. Is this not odd? On his ISO #26, he also provides very bad reasons for his top scum candidates.
3.) On 27 he says that him removing his vote to avoid a hammer is ridiculous because Park is still in danger of one, wasn't really true then, not at all true now.
4.) I guess he was also excited to get FOSed? All right, maybe that's not a good reason, just seems odd to me...
5.) His reaction to being voted for irks me. Like in ISO 28: He seems rather aggressive in retaliation to Chkflips vote, the fact that I haven't noticed it earlier could mean that he's simply getting nervous now...

Are these reasons good enough? I think they are, so

my current read on Gude is still Scum

(it is bolded for anyone who asked)

@huntman, I responded to your points last page. What did you think of them. I would like to hear where your case on me stands.

You know where I stand, as for your answers:
1.) All right, not as detailed as I want, but fine. The fact that you voted for him out of emotion is kinda weird though...
2.) If I rephrase this you say, "I totally believe that Mania is scum, despite me not having enough information to go on."
3 and 4.) So, despite you not having enough information to go on, your only actual scum read is Mania?


I think overall, Gude's answers help to reinforce the ideas that he has gone this game without inputting as much reasoning as we need from a town player. I'm am doing what I'm about to do for 2 reasons: 1.) There is

definitely

a possibility that he is scum. And 2.) Even if I am completely wrong and he is town, I don't see how he could be helpful to us. So:
@@VOTE: Guderian

[Huntman800]

huntman, that last post strikes me as odd.

Half the reasons you posted could be copy pasted for anyone in this game.

You say your read on me is still scum. Isoing you reveals this is the first time you have thought that.

And your last paragraph is either extremely scummy or not thought out.
1. good job genius. I dont know if you realize everyone could be scum
2. like I said two posts back, how am I not helpful?

Because I have done ........what to prove that?

Would you mind quoting my own words to build your case?

Your posts reads as an interesting reiteration of some of chkflips points, some cookie cutter points, and nonsense.

It isn't what you have done, it's what you haven't done. There is nothing to quote because you haven't done anything to help the town. In fact, you have even admitted it, Gude. You have said (see bottom) that pretty much all of your votes have been from emotion, with no logical backing. It's almost like you aren't trying. This is also

not

the first time I've pointed at you (see here).
Fine, if you want to prove that you will help figure out who the scum is then explain how "Half the reasons

posted could be copy pasted for anyone in this game."

As for Thor, I have a very strong feeling that Gude is scum. Though, you should know that by saying those words it becomes even more difficult for me to unvote without people getting suspicious towards me.

As for places where Gude has said that he hasn't provided evidence:

I realized my case on him sucked

(Him refers to Park)

I dont have much to go on and I am attempting to round up people for a random lynch

(Same post as before, referring to Mania here. Random lynches are not good for us... (Which is why, Thor, I votes for Gude because I feel that he is Scum)

Totally possible i dont have enough information

That's all for now...
P.S. NOW I see how preview editing works, I scrolled up

[Huntman800]

For the record, I am not totally set. Not at all. However, I am more inclined to vote Gud than I am to vote Chkflip, and to get me away from Gud,

someone

should probably provide more information.

[Huntman800]

I have a question huntman.

a few people have made a case while not wholly in my defense at least now partially. What do you think of those re: mania bazz and park.

. Why you make me ISO them?
Ugh, fine...
Because he has such a few number of posts, I will start with Mania: He didn't really defend you. If anything, he seems to have said that he simply didn't understand you being scum. In which case I either advise

Mania to look into Gude's ISO more or spit out why he is not scum.

As for Bazz: Where does he defend Gude? It seems to me that he hasn't defended Gude, rather he just doesn't agree with everyone else's cases (in which case, I'd like to know what)
Park: His defense almost makes me want to lynch you more. From what I can tell (see last line of this post if this isn't good enough) he thinks Gude isn't scum because he is incompetent.

If any of this wasn't satisfactory, then I'd like quotes as to where these three players actually defend Gude, I tried to find as much as I could, but honestly: I simply looked at all the mentions of "Gud" on the page. Same thing if any of this was simply incorrect.

[Huntman800]

@Hunt - You only appear to contribute to discussion when somebody asks for your opinion directly. Do you not have anything to comment on about any of the last few pages (positive or negative)? I feel some important points have been made that you seem to just overlook. This playstyle is verging on active lurking, and, whilst being slightly scummy, it is also poor play for town.

I was about to finish going through everything and make a post, but I'm being cut off and have to go for the night. Though, I suppose now I will have far more than enough to reread things as Gude has (at last) been hammered. As too Bazz's quote, I don't really know what to say. I will spend twilight and night looking at evidence and I hope to have some analysis for tomorrow (IG) as to who the next scummy player is. Of course, let us first see that Gude was scum.

[Huntman800]

Andrew, I don't think that's right. I mean, if we lynched a townie that a handful of people thought was scummy, why would that make us scummy ourselves? It took 5 to lynch, and therefore, I don't understand how you can really put a finger on any one of us. What about me and Bazz made lynching a townie suspicious? It wasn't like either of us hammered.

I'm gonna have to think some more on my scum list, though I'm definitely going to look into Chkflip.

[Huntman800]

@@Mod, Sorry, but I don't think I'm gonna be able to handle this game any more. I have a lot of stuff going on, and more stuff keeps flowing in. Can I get a replacement?

I'm really sorry guys, but I think it's better that I drop out now. It's either that or mess up because I don't have time to read even close to the amount that I should, and risk messing up the town by getting lynched when we can't afford a townie lynch.

As my last post, I just want to ask that you all look closer at Thor, Chk, and Park. If you're wrong about why Charlie was NKed, then those are who I'd look closest at.