Newbie 1070 - Game Over

[Jack Forman]

I confirm, I am out of town right now but will be back Sunday night. So I most likely will not post anymore today.

[Jack Forman]

So to start off I just got back from a vacation and that is why I have not been posting.

Please pick an avatar Jack, makes i'ding posts and keeping em straight sooo much easier.

That being said, Quaroath is correct in:

Please pick an avatar Jack, makes i'ding posts and keeping em straight sooo much easier.

Vote: Jack Forman

Quaroath and Rain if you look at my join date I have only been playing a little over a week, I work, the mafia servers have been difficult, and as I stated in my first post to say hello I mentioned I was out of town and would not post til today. Therefore I apologize for any inconvenience or difficulties I may have put on anyone to read my only post in this game.

As for my vote I am going to no vote, it is day one there is not enough to place a vote on someone. I think that RVS is a dumb ass way to pick someone to vote based on their avatar or no avatar picture or even because you dont like someones name. No vote is a good way to go anyways... why kill off someone in RVS, that townie (you are most likely to lynch a townie D1 anyways) could be the person you need to win this game. So why make the game easier for the mafia, vote with me in a no vote and lets have a have a good fun game everyone.

Vote: No Vote

[Jack Forman]

Quaroath and Rain if you look at my join date I have only been playing a little over a week, I work, the mafia servers have been difficult, and as I stated in my first post to say hello I mentioned I was out of town and would not post til today. Therefore I apologize for any inconvenience or difficulties I may have put on anyone to read my only post in this game.

As for my vote I am going to no vote, it is day one there is not enough to place a vote on someone. I think that RVS is a dumb ass way to pick someone to vote based on their avatar or no avatar picture or even because you dont like someones name. No vote is a good way to go anyways... why kill off someone in RVS, that townie (you are most likely to lynch a townie D1 anyways) could be the person you need to win this game. So why make the game easier for the mafia, vote with me in a no vote and lets have a have a good fun game everyone.

Vote: No Vote

I noticed you were new, I was just asking you to get an avatar asap (which would be now, since you have) =D It's just friendly advise, we weren't jumping on you (at least, I wasn't). I understand outside of the game, I work 60 a eek and am in a Master's degree program. I know time crunch! It would have been a bigger issue (no avatar) after 5 or so pages.

That said... No voting is not really a good thing, it actually strikes me a bit off kilter. The RVS has function, putting people under pressure to spark conversation. No one (one hopes) will get lynched off the RVS and without the information it generates we can't really move forward with the game, we end up holding hands and singing "Ashes, Ashes, We all fall down"

VOTE: Vote: Jack Forman in a for reals not RVS vote manner. Slighly suspicious that you want to slow the flow of information.

I am not trying to slow down the flow of information. I am only thinking that I am a town person or supposed to appear to be a town person, just like you. A No Vote would prove beneficial to the town, because there is not enough to go off of to assume anyone is scum. Most likely we will lynch a townie D1. By Voteing againts a person that is a no vote you kind of look scummy, if you were town would just ignore me and continue to RVS. So obviously my no vote did apply pressure. You say I am trying to relieve pressure but I obviously am applying pressure if it convinced you to vote against another townie.

The problem with no-lynch is that the Mafia will then get a free NK on a townie on Night 1, and then we'll be down to 6 vs. 2, and that's being optimistic

If we do vote chances are we will be 5 vs 2. And our chances are even worse. And yes, I am really casting a "No Vote"

Vote Count

Jack Forman (2) - Rain, Quaroath
T-Bone (1) - Stels
barefootfighter (1) - muh316
Stels (1) - Ellyssa
muh316 (1) - splitfarvle

Not Voting (3) - barefoot-fighter, Jack Forman, T-Bone

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[Jack Forman]

A No Vote would prove beneficial to the town, because there is not enough to go off of to assume anyone is scum.

This is the point of the RVS, in essence. I deeply disagree that a No-Vote is beneficial to town. If we No-Lynch day 1, we only hurt ourselves.

How does keeping a townie alive hurt ourselves?

I'm really getting a poor town vibe from some particular aspects of each of your posts.

How do I have a "poor town vibe" if I am trying to conserve townies? What do you mean I have a poor town vibe?

One no lynch hurts... a lot. And frankly 5v2 is better odds for town than 6v2. 5v2 = 70% vs 30%, 6v2 = 75% vs 25%.

6 vs 2 is worse? really? I see more town vs scum means a better chance at finding the scum on D2. I don't want to No Lynch day 2.

[Jack Forman]

Thank you all for explaining that a no lynch is used best in a 3 vs 1 game, but have any of you ever no lynched D1 or seen a game that it was done in? Its like trying new food don't knock it til you try it. Why give the mafia a free lynch on D1 when we lack the info and odds to hit a mafia? The people saying no lynch D1 could very well be mafia still pushing for the odds to be 5 vs 2. So now i am done with the odds and how everyone eles plays the game, I am here I am playing this is what sounds good to me noob or not i am still going to no lynch.

Now you didn't actually cast a no-lynch vote yet (though technically Jack's just got nulled too due to phrasing) so I don't know if you're also pushing to convince enough others for a quick no-lynch. I think between Jack and you on this case, Jack still seems a little scummier to me because the phrasing of his:

I am only thinking that I am a town person or supposed to appear to be a town person, just like you.

That entire paragraph frankly makes me a bit nervous, as though it were meant to play on and drum up the uncertainty, but I do not want to put him into L-1 so early into our day. A quick Mafia hammer or jittery townsperson and we not only lose a player, but also valuable discussion time.

7 people are town right... 9 people are trying to be town right... so mafia or not you and I are trying to be a townie or appear as townie is all I was trying to say. By having 6 town after D1 there are more people to apply pressure (that all of you seem to be looking for) then if we only have 5 town.

And I'm supporting him as an instinct, 'cause suddenly everyone turned against him for being too cautious. And I still share his view. But... If he turns out to be mafia (no offense here, but I think he is acting too nooby to be mafia), I'm not lying for him! D=

Too nooby to be mafia wtf... noob or not anyone can be mafia.

@Jack Forman
The reasons for No Lynch are plainly anti-town, if not scummy. It is true that a lynch is likelier to target town than scum on D1. However, this logic applies up to LyLo (a situation called Lynch or Lose, where you have 2n+1 people alive and n denotes the number of scums alive). Worst case scenario, we mislynch everyday for 2 days before we reach LyLo. If we spend even one day not lynching, we can only afford 1 mislynch before MyLo, in which case we'd have to NL again, to be at LyLo. In other words, if we decide on NL for D1, we have to hit scum within our 2 first lynches whereas if we lynch every day, our chances of survival depends on hitting scum within our first 3 lynches. Please remember that the town has control over who dies to lynches whereas mafia has total control to who dies at night.

My experience with newbies says that they usually consider NL to be safe, which is unfortunate because that's pretty scummy. However, stubbornness is a fairly strong town tell.

I forgot to define MyLo:
I believe it's called "Mislynch and Lose". It's a situation with 2n+2 players alive, where n denotes the number of scums alive. Outcomes of this situations are either lynching a townie, lynching scum, no lynching. First case, mafia wins. Second case, town wins. Third case, no one immediately wins but will set Town at a more favorable position for the next day (since 1 person will die the night after, and a LyLo situation occurs). In this case, No Lynch is the way to go.

Thank you rain I think we all understand how a no lynched is to be used, but you seem to just keep making the same point over and over. Now that we have all seen the odds and the wiki for a no lynch D1, you all seem like a bunch of wimps (on offense to anyone). If you really think I am mafia then lynch me, other wise cowboy/girl up and try something new.

Sorry for being such a NOOB that you all are so willing to point out, here is my final vote.

Vote: NO LYNCH

[Jack Forman]

To start off I am not 100% against voting, but I am for winning. As all of you have pointed out the odds are against me if I want a NL. I understand.

I would also argue that you are not in fact playing the game since you've already decided your day one play three weeks before the deadline. Are you planning on just sitting the game out until day two?

Sorry for being such a NOOB that you all are so willing to point out, here is my final vote.

Vote: NO LYNCH

In essence, you are saying you don't want to play the game. You just want to watch us play. Awesome.

Policy lynch on this is "Lynch the useless player" or "Lynch the newbie who doesn't care that more people than there are total mafia are telling him a no-lynch is anti town, as if he is town, he's not going to help find scum"

Jack, No Lynch D1 is a poor play for the town, Period. It isn't done because it's a bad play. Part of the SE and IC job is to give new players this knowledge. Please listen to them. I can't believe you don't think *someone* is a bit scummy.

How can you say I am not playing the game? I have got people talking and I am posting. And Useless, really? I never said I didn't care or I didn't think anyone was not being scummy but that there is just not enough out there to find them. You guys are so worked up about my NL and how i am being a stubborn, mule headed, noob did you ever think that it was a way for me to push your buttons?

Guess we have our policy lynch...

Muh, how is a policy lynch (when everyone thinks i am just a poor play "townie") good for the town?

I'm not scum. I'm just stating that the Mafia is pretty much laughing at this guy. A policy lynch is better than a no lynch.

I don't care laugh at me, people laughed at the Wright Brothers and they made history. You going so quickly to a policy lynch makes you me think you are scummy. You are so ready to get rid of a difficult townie instead of actually looking for scum.

@Jack Forman: Yet again, my opinion of you hasn't changed. You are still insecure about trying to lynch someone, choosing the easier option of a no-lynch. Your character is that of someone who fears the consequences, which I see in a scum-light. You're afraid that if you vote for someone and lynch that person, you will be seen as scum for lynching that townie, which you are definitely afraid of. The fact that you refuse to scum-hunt in general is also something that is unacceptable and anti-town, especially since you said that was your "final" vote. My vote stays.

Taking the easier option?? Not really cus that means we have to hit scum in 2 days not 3 days... not easier. I fear consequences?? How? The ultimate consequence -- mafia wins. Obviously I don't fear consequence if I am still going with this plan after everything everyone has told me. I stuck to my guns, despite everything I was told.

I also think it is stupid that some of you have complained about me not posting so often when there others who have posted less than me and their few posts have been one liners.

I never said I wasn't going to play the game, if I am sure somebody is scum end of D1 I will be willing to consider placing a vote to help out the rest of the town, but I still think lynching a townie d1 will hurt us in the end.

[Jack Forman]

Jack. I never said I wanted to lynch you. I never placed my vote on you. All I did was mention that you were being anti-town.
I agree with stels. If you are going for a no lynch, you won't scum hunt. Its going to hurt the town more. For now, let all this no lynch stuff go and try to look at flaws in posts, ask questions do something productive to help the town.

I find it odd how quick you take back a PL after I point out that it is worse than a NL, just seems odd.

Can you explain to me Quaroth how you're contributing? Posting the same wall of information post after post is not "contributing". That is just posting for the sake of posting.

I feel the same way T-Bone, in most of Quaroth earlier post he was making the same points other people had already made. So both Quaroth and Muh give me an odd feeling at this time. I am not sure how I feel about the rest of the people at this time. I will try to make an assessment on everyone for you guys before I go to bed tonight.

Just as an FYI, I work 8am to 4pm so don't look for me to post then, and every wed night I go to school. I will try to post more and again after I get home tonight.

[Jack Forman]

@Muh- What did you mean to imply in post #84?... Here let me make it easy for you, I will quote it.

Guess we have our policy lynch...

This post number is 84 two post after mine (aimed most likely at my post, but tell me if I am wrong), so help me understand how you were not ready to PL me.

[Jack Forman]

Ok here we go...

Ellyssa- You post a lot and ask questions and reply to everyone, and you look like you are doing a good job of scum hunting. You were also very much against the NL idea witch in 99% of the time most would be. I think you are town and doing some good scumhunting.

Quaroath- You flip flop more than a fish out of water with your votes. Lets see, i am pretty sure this is in order- Your votes- 1 stels, 2 rain, 3 jack, 4 bear, 5 rain, and 6 bear. You are all over the board and don't tell me it is to get info out when you have not voted t-bone (even though you have suspicions he is scum), but Splitfavle and Muh you talk about but are posting enough info for you to not vote them for info??

Guess we have our policy lynch...

This post really

really

bothers me for a reason I can't get my head around. It is purely a gut feeling, it just feels wrong. I'll try to figure out why while rereading.

What Muh says here bothers you but you never come back to it... kind of lets say Mafia chat "Muh, mafia friend don't do that". So why did you not come back to this and don't say you "forgot", you post and quote so much that you should have not miss this.

Barefoot- I don't have a very good feel on you right now but if anything I don't think it is a scummy feel. In fact Quaroath wanting to vote you so much makes me think that he maybe scummier than I first thought.

Splitfavle- He just seems to be hung up on the mario thing and has not had very much input at this point.

Muh- Every time you vote or think about voting for someone and it goes south you just back out, like you dont want to make any mad. That is all I have to say about you for now.

Rain- I understand that your job is IC and you are supposed to be helping people with the game, but I wish you would stop putting out so many facts and definitions of the game and tell me something that is useful in the game that we are playing.

Stels- You have not posted very much since RVS and I know that you are on V/LA, so I will come back to you at a later time.

T-Bone- I get a lurking feeling from you and your vote for stels cus you think he is jumping on the bandwagon is a weak vote to me, other than that there is not a lot to say about you cus you really have not said much.

[Jack Forman]

@Jack
A policy lynch is not worse than no lynch, it is in fact better, for the same reason that a lynch is better than no lynch. Also, even if no one suspects you, that does not mean you aren't scum.

A PL is worse if you know that person is town (witch most of you have stated the you think I am town) and so if you are going to hit a townie you would be wasting one of three oh so precious days.

[Jack Forman]

@Jack
A TL is better than NL. The reason lies in the passage you quoted. Let me rephrase it:
As long as you understand that a lynch is better than NL, then any lynch is better than NL, including a PL.

Also, just because some people think you are town does not mean that you are town. The only surefire way of determining a player's alignment is either through cop investigations (which have not happened yet), or have your role revealed after a lynch. Again, you can be scum despite popular belief indicating otherwise.

Rephrasing sounds scummy, if you want to make a good point just flat out quote it instead of trying to twist it to your point of view. None of this is your opinion you just keep telling us the how the game is to work. I understand your role in this game as IC but you are bringing up the game machanics again and again while the rest of us have moved on.

[Jack Forman]

Muh- I hope you have a green mushroom cus you might need it. You post like little or no help in finding scum.

Since muh never answered my question on who else he found suspicious, he seems to be trying too hard to lurk and "stay neutral", isn't contributing except to play defence, and is still on my top-two suspect list, I think I will
UNVOTE: barefoot-fighter
VOTE: muh316 (L-2)
and see if that elicits a response. Even if you are town you're not exactly being helpful, regardless if it's your playstyle or not.

You have always seemed like you don't want to make anyone mad, So I agree with Ellyssa here and I am going to do this now:

unvote: No Lynch
vote: Muh316

Besides you try to set up a PL on me and then side stepped the whole matter when questioned.

[Jack Forman]

Muh's lack of posting makes me think that he could be lurking, but at the same time if someone is playing the role of mafia you would think that he would be checking on the game more often. Even if he is lurking, with 4 votes on him you would think he would be all up in defense mode to stay alive. Since he has not posted in 71 hours this makes me think that he could be town and lacks the interest to play a townie role. Just a thought before we bring the hammer down on him.

[Jack Forman]

Yeah I know, that was a list of people I'd rather lynch for information than policy lynch jack at that time. Don't think a T-bone lynch would be a good idea after the last page. Still feel barefoot-stels.

These are two different quotes, but I would like to know what T-Bone said in the last page that made you change your mind on him.

[Jack Forman]

Ebwop- sorry I had two quotes at first but then took one of the out after I re-read it. Quaroath you said in post 116 that T-Bone contribution= zero and in 117 you say you dont have a good read on him due to lack of contribution. So I was just trying to figure out why you hadn't try voting him to get information out of him like you had done to others.

[Jack Forman]

I didn't say anything in the last page. He just wants the heat off of him.

How do you feel about Quaroath then T-Bone? And I think he was talking about the post on page 6 since you really had no input on page 7.

[Jack Forman]

@T-Bone how do you have no feelings what so ever for Quaroath? Sorry that is just jacked lol

@Quaroath how did T-Bones post #140 and 146 make you swing and why do you think he is town now. I hope you are feeling better and I know what it is like when you have that much going on IRL.

@Barefoot you need to stop worrying about getting a few votes placed on you people are going to get pissed off if either way.

@Muh why do you have no defense against the 4 votes on you and townhuntting sounds scummy to me but whatever you say.

@everyone else Muh doesn't seem to want to play anymore or he just doesn't care. I think we have got just about all the infor. we are going to get from D1 lets lynch and move on to the next day. If Muh is not a lynch we want to do, fine then lets start making cases on someone else. That is all for now I hope everyone has a good day IRL.

[Jack Forman]

@Muh when you quote it is helpful if you say who you are quoting and I don't think that we have be rushing the game you said "this game is too slow for me" but you have done nothing to help move it along and you have side stepped a lot of questions that have been asked of you. Why are you voting barefoot now???? You say our case is week against you but you don't even make a case against barefoot. You said said lets pick up the pace in this game but you didn't post for 72 hours the other day, so how about you pick up the pace!!

@T-bone you want the day to be over but you have done very very little in the last few pages to help with anything. For now I am done talking to you since you never have anything to say to people when asked and I still think that you are lurking and I don't care how many times you say your not you are.

@Rain I would like your input on Muh and Barefoot votes.

[Jack Forman]

@Muh Yeah we need reactions from you...dduuhh. Why do you want more presser on her?? Maybe cus you have too much pressure?? So maybe you shouldn't post, it just seems to be a waste of your time since you really didn't answer anything in that... what you might call a post.

[Jack Forman]

Another waste of space from Muh and T-bone, you guys are killin me... Post something that we can go off of... if you really are town guys then help us so that we don't have to kill off anymore town than we have to. If you guys don't want to play the game then say so, so we can get replacements that would be of some benefit.