Newbie 1067 - Game over - Town Win!

[Nachomamma8]

Hey Kcda, Escho, Mist, and Hazard! I'm not used to so many familiar faces in a newbie game

Anyways, I'm your IC in this game, and I'm here to make sure you don't do foolish and terrible things before I am promptly NK'ed on N1 unless the scumteam in this game is kind to me. If your used to playing in other forums, then you'll find games here to be much slower paced, and the lynches to depend more on actual play than PRs. My goals for this game in particular are to win, of course, and to help everyone here develop their own scumhunting styles, at least a little bit.

Anyways, to the game.

Les Guillesser, why do you want to reduce the chances of lynching scum today to 0%?

Vote: dysorder

for some serious scum coasting. Yes, I know he's only had two posts thus far, but both (especially his answer's to Kcdaspot's questions) are guarded, and minimal content needed to drift by without serious suspicion.

I won't be answering any questions because I'm done with the RVS.

[Nachomamma8]

Also

Vote: Nacho

CLAIM IC CLAIM!! jkjk UNVOTE:

Why didn't you want to try to push me to claim?

@Hazard:
Serious-time is usually accompanied with serious votes. If you don't have any strong suspicions, do you mind helping me put a bit of pressure on dysorder?

[Nachomamma8]

Mist, that wasn't my question.

Hazard, what is there to lose from your position? There's no point in even having a vote if you aren't going to use it.

[Nachomamma8]

I didnt want to keep my vote up because what if scum quickhammered before I took it down. Where would we be then without our IC. Even if the mafia attemps to kill you tonight, we might still have the doctor around here to protect you. From the other site (epicmafia.com) a common startagy in this kind of setup would be for cop to claim. Mafia don't know if there is a doctor and if the cop is roleblocked we know it is Setup 1 or 2. If cop dies than we know that there is no doctor and we are left with a bunch of townies. Do you guys agree on that situation of cop claiming? I know here it might seem like a stupid stratagy and will lead us nowhere but I'm going to run a test game on EM and see how it works out. BRB.

Are there any other newbie games where you've suggested this plan?
I'm also failing to see exactly what the benefit of your plan is. Cop claims D1, cop dies N1. Doctor maybe protects him, but then doctor is roleblocked. Scum could fakeclaim cop, draw doctor protections to themselves, plow through town.

^ a quick short post -
We would be automatically finding the mafia if nacho was hammered. And btw guys just because someones an IC or a SE doesn't grant them town so don't make assumptions.

Unfortunately, this doesn't always work. Townies quickhammer too...

Nacho:

I wouldn't say my two posts have been guarded, but they were very brief. My first post was on a Sunday morning at 8.46am here, before I rushed out and went to an all day event (UFC, for those wondering.) The second post was at 6.23am this morning, before I rushed off to work. Most of the posts seemed to occur in my overnight and waking up, I don't have too much to say. Even if I did, it'd be "quick, type this and hit send" and then run out the door.
Being an absolute noob doesn't exactly help, either.

Well, I see you have excuses... But do you have suspicions? Give me some content and I'll be perfectly happy to remove the vote. Otherwise, I'll do my best to make sure you die today.

other hand: nacho we need some content please.

Why ask me to provide more when you don't comment on what I've already provided?

[Nachomamma8]

Mod, prod Les Guilesser please?

Unvote, Vote: Hazard With a Glove

Unvoting as promised. Your post does have some good thoughts in it, dysorder; you just need to push the line of thinking a little farther for each and put a vote down. Which one is scummier to you?

My vote for Hazard is serving as a little incentive for him to answer my question, since we haven't head from him in a little while.

As of now, I have slight scum reads on Hazard and Les Guilesser, a decent town read on mist and inspirateloos, and a slight town read on dysorder.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Les Guilesser

L-2

Now, Nacho, which question are you referring to? The only thing I see is asking me what I have to loose from helping you pressure Dysorder, even though you no longer believe to be needing it, and whom I never did.

I wanted to know why you didn't want to put pressure on Dysorder in the first place.

I don't really see anything that suspicious right now, Les Guilelessers vote is strange, but more in a VI than scummy way.
Escho and Hazard have been too quiet, but Hazard promises to be better and Escho is away for now.

What's the difference between the scum strange and the VI strange, in your opinion?

Guilelesser's statements are a bit... strange, but okay.

Why is it okay?

I'm saving reads until page 5.

Why?

Nacho... how do you feel about Perry? I'm getting slightly bad vibes there.

Scum. He's too worried about making super long posts and providing content, but all he's done this game is provide excuses.

well right now ive got nothing to really say. not trying to lurk but im new here trying to learn the ropes here, much much different than EM or in person. if you can squeeze a paragraph out of me its a miracle ^.^

Why would you say something like this after promising us pages?

1). From the very beginning some people prefer to keep a low profile, others - to write a lot (tastes differ!). Posting or not posting on the 1-st day does not mean, of course, that we can accuse this or that person justly as a maf.

We can accuse anyone of being mafia for any reason. You should be doing the same.

3) I shall unvote Mr. Dysorder who showed warm and heartfelt friendliness by unvoting me. Now, the chance that Dysorder is with Mafia is really low; 2 : 8 (or to be more specific, it is 1 : 4). But even more, I am going to support him (do you hear this, Dysorder?) as long as he clearly shows to me to be on the side of the town. I agree my decision is very straightforward (SPOILER: he-he!) but I see this consolidation as our chance to win.

Could you explain why you believe this to be the correct plan?

4). I think I know who the cop is (or may be). I have this intuition based on the way he has already expressed himself. So I am going to support him and his decision as well (though very indirectly).

You shouldn't be looking for the cop this early in the game. Only the mafia needs to know that.

5. Nachomamma, please do not ask Mod to prod me any more. Last week we had minus 30 degrees C. here in Moscow. Now it's only minus 20 C.; if the temperature rises up to 0 C. you will know how prolific and intellectually productive I can be...

Just trying to make our mod's job a little easier active and keep everyone active. I have no idea what's going on at your house, I just want you to be here and posting.

#76 is a big post with no vote. Don't kill this town read I have on you...

And yes, roles are revealed on death.

[Nachomamma8]

There are solid leads to go on.
Everyone's posted so far.

And why sit around and wait? Surely you don't expect to REevaluate the game if you haven't decided to evaluate it in the first place.
And seriously, what differences will these next 8 posts make?

[Nachomamma8]

Perry, I see you. What do you think of Les? Please answer before logging off.

Responding to Escho's post... now.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm 50/50 on Les, at one point seems like a typical newbie and then other times a typical scum.

Could you be more specific? What seems like typical newbie, and what seems like typical town?

@Les: Why did you decide to claim a townie so early and how could we have possibly seen that you are obv town considering you made very few and contentless posts? Also, why are you so inclined to not vote people who arnt even close to L-1?

You're misunderstanding him; he never claimed Vanilla Townie; he only claimed townie as in a member of the town . I like the rest of your questions, though.

So yeah...are you trying to say that no matter how scummy you look dont ever vote you cuz you will be town? Just seems like to me that you are trying to take off all the future suspicions that might be put on you for attempting to start a policy lynch on Kc.

You're reaching a bit with this. Why does "I am always scummy" translate to "I am always town"? What about his vote on Kcdaspot seemed like policy?

[Nachomamma8]

Well, dysorder, let's look at what he's posted inbetween my two posts from Les.

The reason I have voted for dysoder is because I want to protect myself against the line of conduct wrongly made by him.

His reasoning for voting is "I want to protect myself", not that "I think he is scum". This shows that his primary goal is to survive, not to find scum, which strongly suggests that he himself is scum; as a general rule of thumb, townies look for scum, scum protect themselves.

1). From the very beginning some people prefer to keep a low profile, others - to write a lot (tastes differ!). Posting or not posting on the 1-st day does not mean, of course, that we can accuse this or that person justly as a maf.

Saying that you cannot accuse people of being mafia is a bit too overcautious for my tastes, and I believe this might be an attempt to protect himself and his scumbuddies.

3) I shall unvote Mr. Dysorder who showed warm and heartfelt friendliness by unvoting me. Now, the chance that Dysorder is with Mafia is really low; 2 : 8 (or to be more specific, it is 1 : 4). But even more, I am going to support him (do you hear this, Dysorder?) as long as he clearly shows to me to be on the side of the town. I agree my decision is very straightforward (SPOILER: he-he!) but I see this consolidation as our chance to win.

Supporting someone as long as they don't suspect you gives them incentive not to suspect you. This is again, a move to protect one's self, and not a move to find scum.

4). I think I know who the cop is (or may be). I have this intuition based on the way he has already expressed himself. So I am going to support him and his decision as well (though very indirectly).

Scum instinctively seek out threats, especially PRs. He's instinctively seeking out a PR here, and I find that scummy.

[Nachomamma8]

But, I will say that I'm not interested in Les's lynch just yet. The day is still young yet, and I fear we may be losing a lot of information due to the language barrier.

So,

Unvote, Vote: PeRrY-_-

until he gives us that huge post he keeps promising.

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry for the absence guys. Two big posts upcoming.

First off, I think that Les is town, based on the following things:

First of all I would like to ask you a question, guys. When a player is lynched will his role be revealed to the other players?
And if it is so, please note that it is Hazard with a Glove who proposed for me the death penalty.

This shows a townie mindset in a couple of ways. First off, the question is asked as if he was going to be lynched soon, which is important. If it wasn't, there would be no reason to ask it. This means that he's asking us to look at Hazard after he is lynched, which is important because this makes no sense from a mafiate standpoint.

As a result my post has brought out a storm of "brain analysis" and is coming down to its conclusion ... lynching Les Guilelesser.

Mafia has already won this day! Sorry, but this is the truth. Mafia may call it the day!

This seems to me to be more like resigned townie than anything. Although, I would love to hear Kcda's interpretation of it.

What I propose is to unite true town members and increase our chances of hitting the right target.

I have revealed my role (a Townie); so do not vote me, of course. By supporting me now the Town increases the chance to lynch a maf (mathematically our chance to lynch a maf rises up to 3 out of 7).

He writes this as if we are supposed to know he is town once he's claimed, which doesn't come from a mafia point of view at all.

There's also the added fact that the only person protesting Les's lynch is myself... I've never met mafia so eager to lynch their partners on D1.

[Nachomamma8]

Next, why Perry is scum:

Hey guys, just checking the votes really quick since I'm on my phone and ill look at it more when I get a chance, so ill vote later

Promise, but no content. He's also admitting to logging on just to check the votes; which, honestly, shouldn't be interesting at all to a townie. Mafia, however, is looking for who's voting them and their partner.

All right sorry for lack of posts, at school atm so I can't make a super large post (on a phone) so ill vote
VOTE: nacho
Because I'm hungry

His only vote of the game, random, unvoted two posts later.

well right now ive got nothing to really say. not trying to lurk but im new here trying to learn the ropes here, much much different than EM or in person. if you can squeeze a paragraph out of me its a miracle ^.^

Scummy, considering that he's been promising books and huge post... Why make a promise you can't keep, unless you're just trying to look good?

And now i start my book (or as close to one as i can >.>)

i cant really tell if less is just acting noobish, or is one(like me) but some things hes said kinda make me suspicious like :

The core problem and fatal weakness of this Town Community (for those who on the Town's side) in this game is that they have adopted "why he said so?" approach so early brought in by more experienced players (Nachomamma8, for example, purposefully?).

As a result you have overdone it and lost in the blind alleys of misunderstanding and false decision making.

To change this I put forward some provocative and not matching terribly well statements in my post # 75, thouthg clearly indicating that I am a Townie. (Sure, I read lots of manuals on this game and I also know, as some of you do (Lady Mist7676, for example) that the player who mentions Cop for the first time can well be on the Mafia side and other tricks that are not so obvious for a newcomer; I played this game a lot with cards when a student with slightly different rules, though I am playing it for the first time on the net.)

As a result my post has brought out a storm of "brain analysis" and is coming down to its conclusion ... lynching Les Guilelesser.

Mafia has already won this day! Sorry, but this is the truth. Mafia may call it the day!

now to me, this is kinda scummish i kinda agree with kcdaspot on the fos. again he could just be new but i could be wrong. ive seen people play the newbie card pretty well and not be newbie. i dont really want to vote putting him L-1, so ill hold off so we can at least have more info

im kinda like Les right now, trying to stay alive, but im trying to find scum so i feel somewhat safer, so for now ill wait for more posts to see if i can find out if people are anywhere remotely scummy

This is one of two posts with content, only commenting on Les. This demonstrates tunneling and sheeping...

And for those that believe that Les is scum, Perry is the most likely buddy. He says that although he believes Les is scum, he doesn't want to vote him but "will if he has to". He also chainsaw defends Les in his ISO #21 where he attacks inspira for his desire to prolong the day.

[Nachomamma8]

so what your saying is that perru is scummy with les... but what if... and i'm streching here but what if les flips town? I've dealt with this kind of play before, most of his scummyness came from the fact he was from a different country.

No. I'm saying that Perry is individuallly scummy, and that Les is town. But on the offchance that Les IS scum, then Perry is almost certainly the buddy.

if you guys believe its me, go ahead and vote, i dont care, itll help narrow down who the scum really is

This is a fantastic reason that Perry needs to die, now. Note the differences between Les and Perry as they begin to fall under pressure, and how Les is trying to find the mafia while Perry is saying that he doesn't care if he's lynched or not despite saying earlier that he was trying to survive.

[Nachomamma8]

Just posting here to say that I'm not disappeared or dead.
I've been a non-presence in this game, but that will change.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Kcdaspot

There comes a time when playing a game when you have to rely on your gut. And my gut is screaming that Perry is town from those last two posts. So, my next suspect is Kcda. I'm voting him because he unvoted back in his ISO #8, saying that he wouldn't offer reads until page 5. He STILL hasn't given us those reads, and he STILL hasn't voted because he didn't want to put the last two popular wagons {Les, Perry} to L-1. This is the height of scum opportunism because it demonstrates pretty nicely that he's only looking at the main wagons without a care for anywhere else. It was also pretty scummy when he posted a town newb read on Les, then immediately recanted that read based on ONE post once Les started falling under heavier pressure and it became more likely he would be lynched.

[Nachomamma8]

Where's my predecessor on your reads mist?

Why do you care?

[Nachomamma8]

@Mist: Your switch wasn't as scummy as kcd's because you didn't declare Les to be obvtown before switching. Also, what makes my approach toward Les different from my approach towards Perry?

[Nachomamma8]

My kcda vote wasn't based on gut. My Perry town read was based on gut.

And controlled tunnel is a good way to harvest town reads. It's hard for me to read people when they aren't being pressured to do something, so I put pressure on them. If content is good and townie, I back off. If not, I drive to a lynch.

[Nachomamma8]

dysorder, I know that I will not get absolutely any content from Hazard thanks to this game. It quite literally took him until LyLo to produce ANYTHING worthwhile reading.

[Nachomamma8]

Can we let him produce some content before hammering him, kcda?
Doesn't that make much more sense?

[Nachomamma8]

So, Kcda's target flips town, and then the only person who had their eye on Kcda is NKed.

Hmmm...

If you're going to post something like this, I expect a vote as well. It's not good to aimlessly plant seeds and wait for someone else to grow the plant of suspicion for you.

Vote: Kcdaspot

, however. I have my eye on dysorder.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm really sorry for flaking, all. Life came up at around this time, and I forgot to respond to the prod quickly enough. I hope that I'll get to make it up to you sometime in future games!

Uncle Pain, thanks for replacing my spot and doing it justice.

Kcda,