Newbie 1066 (Game Over!)

[Thian]

Vote: Mozamis

Why are you holding a vote back against Bvoigt?

[Thian]

RaudhrGarm:
What has bvoigt said that is suspicious already?

[Thian]

This game sure has started swiftly.
Anyway it seems that I am a SE this time, which means if the newer players have any questions about the game feel free to go ahead and ask me. I will gladly re-direct your questions to Nobody Special, the IC of the game.

Before we get I start playing the game I have 2 questions for everybody.
1) How much experience do you have playing games on this site here?
2) Do you have experience playing this game outside of this site?
Experience tends to be useful to know for future reads.
____________________________________________

Vote: Mozamis

Why are you holding a vote back against Bvoigt?

This caught my eye. Mozamis had no need to vote there. He simply explained that he found the action suspicious. In short I don't feel that justifies a vote on him.

Thian, I'm guessing Raudhr felt (like me) that it was suspicious that after Raudhr voted for me as a joke, Bvoigt quickly voted for me too.

If a question is directly asked to another player like this one was, it is generally not a good idea to answer for the player. That player - who might be a mafia member - may use the reason you came up with to hide behind and it may look like the two of you are a mafia team working together. Small warning.

1. 4 games complete. replaced into 1 ((it is in the wiki))
2. Yes, the info is in the wiki.

Mozamis: Part of scum hunting is putting votes down on people. Would you say, stating suspicions about people and not voting is suspicious in itself? Not placing a vote means you are holding back information to analyze for later on. Vote analysis.

The last part about answering for another player. Is what I state periodically. 1 it makes you look like you know what the other person is going to say or think. it stifles natural conversation and 3. prompts the other person to formulate an answer based on what another person says.

[Thian]

ok, so on the limited amount of evidence so far, my feeling is that Thian and bvoigt are scum. they seem to be the only players working in tandem/together. Of course, that might be completely wrong But they seem to be very eager to lynch someone as quickly as possible, whereas everyone else so far seems a bit more cautious, becuase they don't want to lynch a townie. bvoight and thian don't seem to be so worried about that...

Mozamis:
observations, okay we get it, you're a noob. Scum hide in "Noob" cards all the time, why are you bringing up your noob factor this much. Also reason for your want to pair myself up with bvoigt because we are working in tandem? You are purposely trying to misdirect suspicion off of you onto 2 others right now as a divide and confuse tactic. I don't like it.

[Thian]

Forthwith:

1) Are you having fun yet?

2) Chocolate or vanilla?

3) How many Mafia games have you played (here or elsewhere)?

4) Lynch all Liars?

5) Math or Sports?

6) Lynch all Lurkers?

7) What do

you

think of the RVS?


I'll post my answers soon, or after everyone, depending on consensus.

1. Yes

2. Vanilla

3. 4 games completed plus 1 replacement game completed. on sight. Off site its in my wiki, hosted 7 installments of werewolf. played in a handful on that site, and handful in meatworld.

4. Lynching a liar? There are factors that can play into this policy when judging if this policy is good or not.

5. Math or sports?
Not into math, not into sports.

6. Lynch a lurker? again this policy is not a dry cut answer. It's up to everyone to bring out a lurker by inviting them into conversations. Power posting, and over dominating conversations can push newer people into the background. So it's best to hear from everyone. If they have been invited into conversation and refuse to participate, towards endgame they can be dead weight and dangerous for not being transparent enough.

[Thian]

^^^
really?


Mozamis:
Why are you agitated? Your posts are coming across this way. Now that you agree that you have made the mention of your "noobness" more than just once. i will re-state, the fact that you are playing the "noob" card doesn't excuse you from being mafia or being questioned. Often times, newer players will throw the Noob card out there to get a free pass. I found it odd that you are throwing that around like you are hiding in it to get sympathy points.

Also, just stating suspicions only gives us half of what you are thinking. You can throw fingers all around, but until we see who you avoid voting for or will vote for we can't determine anything later down the road.

[Thian]

Raudhrgarm:
thinking about your last post, it seems slightly selfish to enter a game just so you get into theme games. How are you helping our win condition if you don't care about being lynched?!

Also, why is it better to start off with a night stage in your opinion?

[Thian]

Replace out and let someone who genuinely wants to play.

[Thian]

lol fingers is multiple. otherwise it would have said. throwing "A" finger around. It is far from exaggerating.

at any rate. Why would you not want him replaced if he is only thinking about himself? He isn't thinking about the group.

[Thian]

Mozamis:
it isn't harsh at all. He stated he is only thinking about theme games when he is in "This" game. Quick to defend Raud are you Mozamis, why?

1. Raud as scum is appealing to emotion. Trying to make it look like he doesn't care that he is just a townie and the numbers go down, woe is me, don't look my way.
2. Raud as Town is extremely anti town as mentioned above and bad to have around regardless.

this is why I am saying replace out. it is better for him to replace out now so we get someone who will actively want to participate and we won't have to "get to know" half way through our game again.

Point of advice, often replacing in and out of games is very stressful for everyone around.
1. you have to get used to someone new, and that is hard when trust levels are already low
2. replacing in after 30 pages of information can be VERY difficult for the replacement and it slows the game down while everyone waits for the "first impression post" from the replacement.

I'd rather have him replace out now and have someone who cares about the game get into it from the start to help us.

[Thian]

oh god... really?!?!!? wtf are you doing Raud!

[Thian]

1. from all games I have been apart of on this site, I have yet to see first day round end quickly.
2. Are you purposely trying to role fish?
3. If it is a night phase first, all people with night actions get 1 step ahead, yet you are garunteed a dead villager by the morning.

[Thian]

bvoigt, any reason for Nobody special?

[Thian]

^^
noticed the failures all around

Bvoight, your votes are coming across as your only reason ((a safe reason at that)) to get people to talk. Have you not come up with anything else other than using the same excuse ((written differently each time)). Instead of asking where people are and using your vote as leverage to get people to speak up, let's hear your thoughts on what players are doing, instead of what players are not doing.

[Thian]

Mozamis:
I don't see myself voting for a lurker just yet. Some have stated they will not be around. So my vote isn't moving from you just yet. you are not out of the woods that easily. You stated you want to move the game along. I am assuming you want the night phase to hurry up? Why is that?

[Thian]

Trendall:
In response to you assuming that I believe people who vote half hazardly is town, and those who don't are suspicious? Wrong. I believe people who state suspicious behaviour and don't follow it up with a vote, suspicious.
This makes me question why someone would state a suspicion yet, not vote. Especially in RVS. Usually RVS votes do not stick, unless that person continues to look scummy. I am still not comfortable with Mozamis's response.

Also Trendall, I don't want to bring the context of other games into this one. However, Mishka in the game I had replaced stated they were new a couple of times. Trying to hide behind the fact that they were new. Also Eggylvl in another game did the same thing, but was lynched and a few others. These games are all completed and finished. If you want, please look into my wiki and do some digging. I really dispise bringing up other games into current games since they are over and done with.


Mozamis:
I'm male, not female. You have called me he, then she. Also, which is it Mozamis? I think you are scum because I am town? or I'm scum? You're reactions are getting overly defensive. Why is that?
in your latest posts, Why did you feel the need to state "not because I'm new or trying to avert attention" ?

Thewayitends:
Which votes do you like of BV's?
you also stated that maxous hasn't posted at all, and there is good reason to be voting for him. Your vote has fallen on me due to my first post? try harder. Why aren't you on the maxous vote? Are you avoiding someone? Do you not feel mozamis is scummy, or RG?

[Thian]

Mozamis:
It is fine, gender confusion happens.

You gave us the reason "why" you stated "Being new....avert attention". However, why do you feel the need state it? Even prior to me questioning you about the subject, you kept stating it, unprovoked, why did you feel it is necessary?

[Thian]

Mozamis:
I am talking about the following quotes from you. That were unprovoked.

no exoerience on this site. played a couple of times with my mates years ago.

so TOTAL NOOOOOOB really

although, in fairness to bvoigt, he is right, that RG made three other posts (about deadlines for the game etc). only after i piped up saying thatbvoigt was suspicious did he say he thought bvoigt was suspicious too.
sigh [/b]*confused noob face*[/b]

Those are unprovoked statements of calling yourself noob.

I don't want to be caught off guard by someone who will use their "newness" as a buffer to escape answering questions or pretending to not understand something because they are new. So yes, I am leery and will be when someone shoves that around.

You are explaining to me WHY mozamis, you aren't explaining why did you feel that you have to say you are newb or new.


Trendall:
Why? Someone who states they are suspicious of (insert name). Yet won't vote for them? We don't have loyalties to anyone, only scum do. So what motive would town have not to vote? None. Especially that early? The only reason I can see is mozamis not voting ((at that time)) because they didn't want to get lash back from another person and start causing ripples. This was an early alert.

It was RVS, votes don't stick normally, why would someone cast their suspicion and not vote. everyone is on even ground right now except for mafia, so they are going to be more cautious of where they place their votes!

[Thian]

So your conclusion leads to believe:

I am townie
I am scum

What part of post 151 are you responding to when you told me to look at post 38, 54 and 57? Were you responding to the section that was addressed to Trendall?

[Thian]

TheWayItEnds:
I had a game in past, that scum was the first to post. The town went on that theory and it was prooven to be true. I believe the theory was 50 percent of the time, the first person to vote is scum. ((obviously not a great theory to begin with and it was questioned)). I am drawing from past experiences that are creeping up into this game. Fair enough on your assessment, that it can be looked at as tunnelling.

however, why are you stating he is easy lynch bait? You are asserting that he is bait?

[Thian]

Mozamis, you posted an end game thought? lol what are you doing? Really.

[Thian]

Thewayitends:

several hours? lol. anywho you still are asserting to the fact that mozamis is bait, this means you know they are town, and you are defending them why? To look more protown? Mozamis, don't start cheering on someone if you don't know their alignment. They may come to your aide, but what purpose is it showing.

[Thian]

Mozamis:
The pressure is fine. Votes are votes. You need to realize, that TheWayItEnds, is just as guilty as the next person in this game. Just be careful when someone is coming to your defense, you shouldn't just readily accept it because they could just be mafia trying to buddy up to you, then night kill you and no one will know any better because you didn't suspect them.

[Thian]

Mozamis:
So you won't bother questioning why TheWayItEnds is defending you? Or Why he called you bait? Do you know how he knows you are lynch bait. He is essentially confirming you are town. How would anyone know that except for mafia. Wake up mozamis. Please.

[Thian]

Vote: TheWayItEnds
Unvote: Mozamis

[Thian]

You are unvoting now because my vote isn't on you.

[Thian]

TheWayItEnds:
You stated you don't know if Mozamis is town, but you are now preventing a townie lynch? My vote is hardly omgus so don't throw that term around. Seeing as you know ((for some strange reason)) that Mozamis is town.

[Thian]

That reasoning is weak, same as your vote on me, and then backing it up that it was out of spite more than believing in the vote that you are casting. As soon as I remove my vote from you, you remove your vote from me. Why is that mozamis?

[Thian]

because I wasn't targetting you anymore?

[Thian]

lets crank up the pressure on Thian

UNVOTE VOTE THIAN

UNVOTE

In hindsight, my vote on Thian was a bit OMGUS.
Sorry about that.

THIS is why you are suspicious, you are voting out of spite. Your arguements are hidden between "I'm a noob" and "don't be mean", you are appealing to emotion and people just assuming you aren't scum.

Now, you are stating the only reason why I am voting TheWayItEnds is because he defended you? You haven't even bothered to question as to why he came to your side. Or look into his defense of you. You are just going along because someone who defended you came to your aide.

another part is because he clearly stated that you are easy lynch bait, and has attested to the fact that you are town. Then later on covered it up by saying he doesn't know, you are town. Yet he is defending town. That to me is suspicious as well and as I had stated before the only people who know for a fact others are town, or will be town, is scum.

[Thian]

Trendell:

You came back just to say you weren't convinced about mozamis?

Mozamis:
What scummy vibes are you getting from NS? more so than RG at the moment?

[Thian]

sorry that should be Trendall.

[Thian]

Mozamis, just so I am getting this right.

Because NS is not really contributing too much ((at least to your liking and a few others)) that he would be the better lynch? would it be a better lynch because he is scum or just because he is not participating?

[Thian]

Alright:

RG, it's already been mentioned by that quick vote, costing us a lot of discussion time was pretty scummy. I don't like it. can you confirm, the reason why you wanted the night phase so quick?

Thewayitends:
post 317 I am guessing you meant to say we shouldn't rush into the next night phase, instead of should?

Mozamis:
who do you believe is bussing each other right now? RG and Bvoight?

[Thian]

TheWayItEnds:
Yea, I kinda figured it was sarcasm, but I just wanted to make sure I was reading it in the right context. There can be times when sarcasm doesn't ring out very well and then it can get twisted up.

[Thian]

Breadcrumbing? Why are we talking about breadcrumbing and potentially outting someone to mafia! *face palm*

RG is either scum or very anti town and neither is good.

[b[Vote: RG[/b]

[Thian]

that should be

vote: RG

[Thian]

Maxous:
Points have already been brought up, so I will be just explaining things that may be repeated, so be patient at least with that.

His disinterest in the game could be acting, why would he rush a night phase so early? we lost quite a bit of investigation time on week one on account of him. He hammered without real explanation and went after the IC. Unfortunately with the title IC, it brings about a certain idea that they are some how better than a newer person. This could scare or intimidate mafia to either be lynched quickly, or night killed the first night or second night. That is my guess as to why the quick hammer. Get rid of the IC immediately and not have to worry about being questioned by them later on.

[Thian]

Maxous:
No, I haven't from Mozamis. So yes, I am still wanting to vote either or. RG or Mozamis. Thewayitends, I re-read and it is coming across more townish.

TheWayItEnds:
Eventually someone is going to be at L-1, I think the reason why L-1 is rubbing you the wrong way is because of what happened on day one with a quick lynch. Would you feel better if I voted for my second suspect Mozamis twie?

[Thian]

**off game note**
Had a long weekend was out celebrating with staff from my friends work place. I am back
**end off game note**

Mozamis:
You are right in a sense that being concise with what you say is good. However, you do need to have conversation if you are going to weed anything out. So I disagree with you in that sense. Less talking? Where were you going with that?

[Thian]

Thewayitends and bvoight.

Where are you placing your votes? Are you hesitant to do so? is that why they are in limbo?

[Thian]

TheWayItEnds:
So you are willing to stall the game and get no where with RG until he comes back. Which is worse? Waiting around waisting time? or Quick Lynch? ((sarcasm jokingly)) Why are you hesitant on voting RG? Do you agree he has been helpful or not helpful?

bvoight:
Not true, speculate what you want. why would I bus RG in your opinion? Would the situation be different, if I went back to my first feeling on mozamis day 1? Getting ridiculed for it as people claim that Mozamis "IS" lynch bait? If you take into account that calling someone Lynch bait, is pretty much telling the town in some slip or another, that they know mozamis is town and just an easy target?

[Thian]

Mozamis, I really am worried that my first hunch was right about you, in that you are scum.

[Thian]

I've obviously seen enough. . . . - _-

Vote: Mozamis

[Thian]

TheWayItEnds:
Why did you boher emphasising do not place a vote? One thing is for sure, we know that one wrong lynch and we lose... so why bother restating a fact we already know, we are intelligent enough to understand at much. And as you know pairing people up isn't going to be the best route. It has happened already in this game and both times they were wrong. Seeing as though no one has called you scum since I did first day, what does that make you think?

[Thian]

And one last question TheWayItEnds. You don't want to lynch RG, why? Protecting him from what?

[Thian]

RG as scum would definately hide at this point. Imagine when he does come back how much ridicule and scrutiny he would get for things he hasn't even been a part of? I am still confused as to why you won't vote for RG TheWayItends? If you are playing to your win condition you would have no problem putting your vote on anyone if you are town.

[Thian]

Why are you getting so defensive too? It isn't faultless logic, I have dealt with scum PRIOR to this game who have done EXACTLY what RG has done this game. so perhaps my game experience is slightly different than yours and you don't have that to go off of, but I do.

[Thian]

Maxous:
At this point, I feel scum is definately in RG. I am confused as to what pro town thing RG has done and why TWIE will not vote for RG. I am Leaning on a scum vibe from TWIE, for his behaviour and his unwant to vote for RG. that comment he made was pointless Maxous. We all know it is a lylo situation currently, so why push that fear into people and emphasis it, just to look pro town? It has raised an alarm signal.

[Thian]

the fact that you are trying to force 3 other people to vote for RG and you avoiding it? pfft.

[Thian]

EBWOP:
That above comment was directed towards The Way it Ends.

[Thian]

TheWayItEnds:
Right TheWayItends, he did hammer in a scummy fashion and you are so casual to dismiss why he hasn't posted a proper reason for his horrid hammer? He will be scrutinized, and then probably slip. He made an error and it seems as though he is cowering. Any and all comments in this game can be looked at by anyone TheWayItends, why are you getting so tempermental about me stating that that comment was a little pointless.

[Thian]

VT

[Thian]

Also

FOS: RG

This is my prevote before it comes official.

[Thian]

Why would you have to hedge yourself with "honestly" were you not being honest in your opinions prior to this one TheWayItEnds?

[Thian]

I am fine with finding other scum, since I am finding your resistance to RG vote, telling, in itself.

RG you missed it. post 470
VT.

[Thian]

And you are confident that you are preventing a townie mislynch TheWayItEnds?

[Thian]

Yes, we are. It is raising alarms everytime you do it. You keep bringing it up and you seem to be confident in attesting to RG being town. Even if you have hunches or guesses, or guts, you keep bringing it up so you must know he is.

[Thian]

Also you avoiding mozamis lynch too at the end of last day? You knew he would flip town and you avoided it so as not to incriminate yourself on that lynch.

[Thian]

maxous, I thought I answered that a while back when you asked. but yes. I am leaning towards it maxous.

also I like the way RG is throwing out a vote on vordark as soon as TWIE is getting targetted. He comes around lazes about and then when he sees trouble for his partner, he throws the vote out hoping to get a wagon going on a potential innocent.

[Thian]

that effin vote was scummy RG.

[Thian]

right, I've stated my suspicions on TWIE and RG.

[Thian]

and with RG's last couple of posts, I'm more convinced.

[Thian]

Of you suspecting me?

[Thian]

I didn't read it as you addressing him solely TWIE's, I read it as a general statement. Telling everyone that in case he comes back, don't vote.

[Thian]

minus the 's :S

[Thian]

Alright so

Thian: FOS RG
Maxous: FOS RG
Vordark: ???
TWIE: ???
RG: ???

[Thian]

@ RG ((Off Game Note))
I questioned the FOS to another IC in one of my games, she stated that it is useful in these instances where it is lylo, to avoid quick lynch. So it made sense to me, to apply it in this situation.
((end off game note))

[Thian]

I'm confident. It seems as though this is just going to go around and around at this point.

[Thian]

alright I think we came to a consensus

Vote: RG

[Thian]

Good game everyone.

Some points I'd like to bring up, that I have experienced when it comes down to the game.

1. RG, you really should have replaced out when you get the first idea in your head and actually form that thought into a post. Not to be all lecturish, but as stated prior. It is sometimes hard to get to know a new person mid game, or half way through the game when trust levels are already at an all time low. However despite that fact. I think this is the first time I have played a game where all original members stayed in. So really to the group, taking that on board is really helpful. Not only to the other players, but for the host as well.

2. Mozamis, slow down your posts a bit, your second day play was a LOT better than your first day play ((until the end)). This was a mistake I made going into my very first game, and I was strung along until the end game and got lynched. Infact, I wanted you towards endgame but unfortunately you were lynched one day too early,

3. Trendall, you had me shaking, good play.

4. TheWayItEnds, you as well good play, was definately nervous of you.

5. bvoight, you did have good play too.

6. Maxous, you did fine, I think you easily trusted a few people. Try to watch out for buddying.

Just to sum up the game play. I found this is the quickest game of mafia I have played in the newbie queue. Allow for conversation to happen, although you don't need to take the full 3 weeks, sometimes it is best to have more discussion, than fairly quick lynches.


QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/X7aY8jwsYrxRz

[Thian]

also vordark. you did really well in my opinion, and kinda held it pretty much together. Glad to have had a good scum partner in you.

[Thian]

haha, glad you enjoyed the QT TWIE. I really did enjoy this group a lot too. I don't know why, but you guys really were pretty reasonable people at the end of it all. I was so paranoid there was a cop and doc set up.

[Thian]

Ya that was one thing I really got scared about, was the fact that you had brought both of our names up right in pretty much the first post. was like, jeezus, do we keep you in and pass it off, or prepare for the back lash of speculation.

[Thian]

As well Crazy:

you were a great mod to have as well. thanks for being diligent and patient with us in the QT.

Oh god... 8 pages?!?!?!?! crap! I know if I play against you next time. I'll be gunnin for you jk.

[Thian]

LOL TWIE your signature!

[Thian]

To me TWIE, your points were fine, but it is like you said, the scrambling.

to me, it was the not willing to vote for RG. As a town, really you don't have any alliance / reason to avoid someone. I think because you refused to look at him is what was latched on to. As well, something I was going to use, was your hesitation to vote for Mozamis. I mean yes, he was easy lynch bait. But saying to someone, you are easy lynch bait. Essentially saying that they are just bait, alerts to someone knowing they are town. As a town who is uninformed, why would you know that? If that makes sense? Plus as you said, you did scramble a bit in responses. Plus with everyone on and no time given between posts. I really got this urgency feeling from the group that we had to get someone, and get them now. type deal.

[Thian]

@TWIE:
What has changed is that we're in lylo, and one mistake costs us the game.

Also TWIE

This exchange between you and RG, I woulda used the crap outta that. RG kind of sealed it by replying to your post.

"Cost us the game" scum pair talking to each other.

[Thian]

vordark. I so wanted a TWIE NK. I wanted to kick myself for not sayin something in QT, lol when the day started all I could do was watch in horror at TWIE pinning us both down at the end and forcing an RG TWIE vs. us and then having it all lay on the line with maxous.
I am glad though that maxous felt comfortable enough with you in the game.

[Thian]

LMFAO I keep looking at your sig and lol every time. Yeah, it was a bit buddy tastic of RG. However, it really wasn't anything to do with you, it just pinned you both together. that's why it is so important not to answer for someone or assist them in guiding a train of thought.

[Thian]

hahaha did you really go out for a smoke? When Maxous put his vote down, I was like ohh I pray pray pray vordark would be around to see this. I kept refreshing periodically from work.

[Thian]

ah haa haa. when I saw RG's vote. I was frozen. everything slowed down and all I could hear was. "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"

[Thian]

have to say, scum played great. Guess i played pretty bad. Was definitely an excitable pup day one! And me suspecting EVERYONE prob didnt help lol.
@bvoigt yeah i know i shouldn't have given up, but i was just broken by the tunneling at that point.Plus, no one seemed to notice how vordark spent the whole game not answering questions, but asking them and keeping the pressure on other people.
Glad you were scum Vordark -its restored my faith in hunman nature You played a blinder.
But right to the end i was convinced it was Vordark and Maxous, so have to say: Thian, bloody well played! Apart from early day one, you were never seriuosly on my radar.
And i said it was just like an Agatha Christie -that bloody massive Red herring/RG kinda threw all of us off track!
But yeah, scum played great
Really enjoyed this game, thanks peeps and thanks Crazy

Mozamis, Thanks. Honestly, I can fully well understand the excitedness to play. You on day one, I thought you were fooling around yet you knew what you were doing when you threw out some tactic responses that scum would do.

[Thian]

Yeah, it isn't really a wise idea, after claiming VT to claim cop either