Newbie 1086 (GAME OVER)

[Darkcoffeejazz]

*With the tip of his fedora and a wink of his eye, the great coffee addict walked through the front door of the game. Normally.*
Couldn't resist, sorry. Well, first post is fulfilled now, so I will go and reread what's been going on in this game (other than the replacements, as I imagine this isn't the first one that's occurred).

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Well, I'm not well acquainted with the way MafiaScum.net handles it's games, newbie or not, so I have no idea if the vote of my predecessor counts after he's been replaced. I'll

UNVOTE

now if that's the case (if not, just ignore it).

I've read the thread, and for the most part my head hurts; that is to say I'm not sure what to make of everything, not even my predecessor's posts (rocky). I'm going to have to brew some coffee and mull over the thread some more, I'm thinking, but instead of the first read-through of a broad viewpoint (taking in all posts at once and overloading my brain), I might read it through with specific people in mind.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Well then, good thing I was thorough. Anyway back from a shower, brewed some coffee (and placed in some mint choco chip ice cream into it), so I'll probably spend the rest of today digging around the thread. Whether I find anything relevant or not though is yet to be seen...

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Ahem. Allow me to explain, as I am well acquainted with the ways of EpicMafia (henceforth referred to as EM).

EM is a live chat-based site for the playing of Mafia games. Moderators police the community in the event of trolling, etc, but they do not actually assign roles or host games. A player creates a game using a predefined "setup", or makes a setup of their own from the roles available on the site (they add new ones once in a while, too). Once a game is created it is posted in the lobby automatically. The number of players varies from setup to setup, but once the quota is reached (players click "Join Game" via the lobby), the game waits 10 seconds before starting the game. Once the game starts, the site's system uses the setup to assign roles randomly among all players, and it goes to Night 1 (or Day 1 if it is a Day Start setup). Mods do not even have to be in a game to play one.

Basically, the setup determines what roles are used, and the system randomly distributes those roles once the game starts, but before the first Night/Day.
So yeah. Long explanation is long I know.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Yeah I noticed some confusion in the thread regarding EpicMafia earlier. I thought it had been resolved so I didn't say anything before now.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

After isolating everyone's posts one by one and making notes for myself, I still do not believe I am ready to vote for anyone as of this moment, however; this is mostly due to the fact I wasn't part of this game until today (as a replacement). It's harder for me to get any good reads unless I'm actively involved in the conversations going on around me.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Do you have any impressions you'd like to share? There must be something you've gleaned from all that reading.

I'm not sure I have anything of substance, but I suppose I can share a few of my first impressions upon reading the thread. Please keep in mind they are just observations I've made, as well as general impressions of some of your actions. So don't expect much in the way of a vote to lynch anyone just yet. Yes... it is a wall of text. If you are going to quote this post, please edit out anything not directly contributing to what you have to say about whatever it is you are specifically addressing.

TOGTFO

: I noticed that he FoS'd projectmatt, and after that I didn't see much contribution. Maybe one or two comments on the Mogri/Jason exchanges, but not much else I could glean on first glance. Considering he replaced someone, I'm not entirely shocked either. I'm still trying to transition into this game myself. However, I'll be keeping an eye for future posts from this person.

ZengarZombolt

: I'm not entirely sure how to perceive this person. While I understand the concept of a random and/or joke vote in the RVS stage (as you all call it here), I find the jokevote against the Mod and the use of a randomizer slightly odd. I only say slightly because, well, the first was a joke vote and the second was literally a random vote. As has been mentioned, though, use of a random generator does create a disconnect between the poster and their vote. But is it scummy? I'm not sure.

Mogri

: I've noticed you and Jason have exchanged words on several occasions this far into the game. While I won't go into detail on every single argument, the bulk seemed centered around projectmatt and his actions. Usually with you defending him. It's a bit too early for me to tell for sure, but I'm getting town vibes from you. And not just because you unvoted when I came into the game, either.

projectmatt

: I am familiar with EpicMafia so I understand the whole "mod" confusion, I suppose. I do agree that you do slightly imply you are town with the way you talk, but then again, I think this may have been something you picked up from EM. For every town tell I get from you, there's a scumtell to counter it, so at this moment you're in a neutral standing with me. Also I believe the bandwagon on you was due in part to a large misunderstanding and a failure to gain information before making accusations. It was also partially your fault for not adequately explaining the mechanics of EpicMafia. However, something I did not really like at all was that you kept repeating yourself when it came to your statememts of "mafia would be cautious", and that you yourself "are cautious". Whether this is a scumslip or just a failure to communicate adequately once again, I'm not sure. But I'm going to be watching you in any case.

JasonT1981

: I'm curious as to why exactly you felt the need to random vote, unvote, and then vote again in the same exact post. While this may not be scummy in and of itself, I felt that your random vote then became an unnecessary part of your post. I realize this may have been a joke vote, but still. I just found it a bit odd is all. From what I can glean, you were all for voting projectmatt, due in part to the large misunderstanding of the use of the word "mods" in regards to EpicMafia, as well as projectmatt's inadequate explanations of the site itself. I am not entirely sure how I feel about you at this moment in time, to be quite honest. I felt you were tunneling a bit on projectmatt a bit, again due to the EM misunderstanding. I also believe Runner posted something to this effect as well, in his ISO post #4.

Runner

: I'm not entirely sure what's going on in your real life, but despite being an SE in this game, I felt you haven't posted as much as anyone else. I counted and apparently you have a whopping 6 posts. This could just be your play style, as I know people who prefer not to talk unless they have something of worth to add, but at the same time it minimizes the tells that players can read from you. I'd just like to hear your thoughts on everything that's been happening so far in a bit more depth than you have previously posted.

Space Pope

: I felt you were the largest contributor to the votes against projectmatt, if only in the sense that you called him a liar, and that we must "Lynch All Liars". I saw little to no effort to help resolve the EpicMafia "mods" issue, you just assumed he was lying due to your experience on MafiaScum, since moderators here are different than the moderators over at EpicMafia. You also failed to notice that it was Zengar, not projectmatt, that voted the mod. I am glad you backed down a bit after projectmatt defended himself a few times. As to whether your actions thus far are that of scum or aggressive townie, I'm not sure of at this point. Also, I'm not sure if this is important or not, but I don't think you voted at random at all during RVS; the first vote I can find from you was one on projectmatt. I'm not saying not randomly voting is scummy; it's just an observation I made.

MOI

: Magna, you also didn't random vote, unless I'm missing it. Again, this is just an observation. I don't know why you feel that anyone who thinks that RVS is devoid of information must be scum, however, when you yourself did not randomly vote. I do not count the vote on Rocky as random, as you were voting him for a specific game-related reason. If I am wrong about this observation, please enlighten me as to why. I also noticed you exchanged some words with Mogri as well. I am glad that you disagreed with Space Pope's assertion that only scum would say or imply they are town, however, and in general I get a town read from you.


I think this is everyone. I obviously couldn't cover every single detail of this game, but these things are what stuck out the most to me upon reading the thread a few times. Again, if you are going to directly quote this post, please edit anything that doesn't contribute to what you are trying to respond to. These are all first impressions of each specific player, after all.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

@Magna: 6 days? Huh. I thought it had been longer than that, not sure why. Guess I shoulda paid attention to the times more. Nevermind about that then. Also, it was at first glance so I wasn't sure if your vote had been truly random at that point. Thank you for clarifying a few things at least.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Mogri, I'm going to have to be blunt here; lynching MOI just because of his statistics is a horrible idea. All it means is that he's won more times as scum than town. It doesn't mean he's more likely to be scum, however.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Well you have to remember that they were all first impressions. Naturally impressions can be wrong. I see your point(s) however, so thanks for clarifying.

And ow, cut (aka I was posting and someone else posted D:)

[Darkcoffeejazz]

I don't think I'm ever going to figure you out, Mogri.
*sigh*

[Darkcoffeejazz]

I don't think I'm ever going to figure you out, Mogri.
*sigh*

Please explain the game impact of this. Are you suggesting that you will not be able to read Mogri’s alignment based on his posts?

Because if I think of him as a townie, he's quite twisted. I was having trouble figuring him out, and every time I thought I had him figured out, he does something that not only irritates me, but makes me rethink all my previous reads on him. Sigh. However, that's if I think of him as a townie.

If I think of him as mafia, however, his actions actually make sense:

-Unvoting before I'd made a single post, then commenting on my "town play", as if to buddy with the "new guy".

-Saying Jason is his number 1 suspect, yet not voting him one single time, despite the impression that his suspicion is rather strong. He also attempts to cover for this by saying he's "still trying to pin down a read". In my personal experience, when someone suspects someone as strongly as to state they are his "number 1", there is no reason that the player would not have already had a considerable read on the subject in question. Reads come before suspicion- it's the whole reason why the suspicion is there in the first place. I think someone called this a "cognitive dissonance". I agree.

-He also made "idle banter" about lynching someone based on their statistics, earlier. I get the feeling that had everyone agreed to the lynch suggestion, Mogri would have been voting along with them, with no hesitation. This is just a feeling, but one I feel is plausible. If it had been a joke in the first place, wouldn't he have stated so in the same post? At the very least he would have made it known very soon after that post that he was kidding. But he waited until several people reacted to it before covering it.


I have enough of a read now that I can't ignore this any longer.
As a townie, he's rather twisted.
As the mafia, everything fits.
VOTE: Vote: Mogri

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Also, I fail at tags.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

I never said he was obvious. Even so, unless a better case is presented and I agree with it, my vote isn't moving.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Projectmatt, when you get on, I know you've tried to unvote several times now, but perhaps you should try it one more time.
This time using ALL CAPS and bolding the word "UNVOTE". Ok?

[Darkcoffeejazz]

EBWOP: Meant to add this in, sorry. As an addition to teh above post, I meant to say one thing:

Mogri, while we're on the subject of logical fallacies and using them against people, why don't you review your own Appeals to Ridicule?
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... icule.html

Aka "So you ARE bad at logic", which is, technically, a way of trying to discredit the person you are arguing against.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Well I'm getting a bit tired of the cherry picking, or whatever you're going to define your actions as next post. Logic isn't the be all end all, you know.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

I agree. While fallacies HAVE lead to scum in previous games I've been in, they're not the be all end all either. They should be used sparingly, at least as far as discussion goes, and just like any other tool, used as a supplement. This is just how I feel about it anyway, YMMV.
I mean, when it gets right down to it, I could associate a logical fallacy with every single person here, myself included. So yeah. Let's not try to get too distracted from scumhunting, yes?

And I'm still keeping my vote on Mogri for now. While he makes some good points, I remain unconvinced as to his own innocence.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

I think you're going to have to wait until Zengar answers him, if he isn't replaced out for inactivity. Space has mentioned several times that he'd like Zengar to respond, you see.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

I should probably point out, from the sidelines at that, that a conversation involves dialogue. Not quoting one person in one post. Just my two cents is all.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Well that's all well and good, MOI, but this is assuming he hasn't given up and quit the game already without telling us. I'm really getting sick of all the replacements, tbh.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

I have already given plenty of reasons as to why I am voting you, Mogri. I don't feel like repeating them. If you truly wish to know then reread.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

I thought MOI answered you already Mogri. Several times.

Also, I'm really not ok with a no lynch. A no lynch will tell us nothing new, and in my experience you get more information from a lynch than you do from the mafia's first kill.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Yes, let me answer something that MOI should actually point out. That's smart.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

And sorry if that came across as mean. It wasn't my intention.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

For once, I completely agree with everything Space has said in the above post. And I think I already stated that I would be opposed to a No Lynch, but I'm saying this again just in case people missed it.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Welp I guess that's the end of Day 1. We'll see what happens next I guess.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Obligatory death post.

Stupid mafian jerks.