Newbie 1103: Just Another Chaotic Town (Game Over)

[Miss JJ]

Hi everyone. I'm new - first game on this site and I may not know exactly what I'm doing but I've been trying to read other games. Anyway...

Vote: Elsa von Spielburg

Because, that's just a mouthful.

[Miss JJ]

Vote: Miss JJ

People who start the voting are obviously mafia

Or, they have nothing to hide.

[Miss JJ]

@ Meransiel - LOL @ exotic. Not sure if that is good or bad. From my take, I saw Firestorm eyeing the thread last night before posting and I assumed his (her?) not voting was just because he wasn't sure what to do. I chalked it up to newbism, from which I also suffer. I don't know if that's exotic but since all of the reasons so far have been pretty random or silly (I understand it's to get conversation going which is a good thing), I didn't think it was a big deal.

I did initially think asking Mafia to out themselves was a strange thing to post but I figured Firestorm was attempting humor and wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Miss JJ]

LOL well I admit I have been very excited to start my first game here. I was hanging out.

[Miss JJ]

I also play mafia/werewolf on another forum and it's frustrating because most people are afraid to vote or even post much. That's why I joined this site. I thought I'd try it out. Three weeks for a day round seems so long, though. Should be interesting.

[Miss JJ]

Hi guys and gals, looking forward to a good game and hopefully a town win.

vote: Thor665

For being the IC and last to post in the thread

? at mod or to someone who knows about this setup: When it says "2 of the following" does that mean we could possibly have 2 cops/docs/jailkeepers? I assume it means we have 2 of those 4 roles in the game in some combination but the 25% next to each threw me off since if it really was 2 of 4 roles it would be 50%

Thor is out until the 15th (see mod notes) which is probably why he hasn't posted, lol. Also, I think it's 2 of the 4 roles and the 25% means there is a 25% chance for each to be in the game (1 out of 4)? That was my take at least.

[Miss JJ]

Yes, I'll comment.

I'm actually going to go ahead and disagree about "no sheeping in RVS." All other games go MUCH faster if you make even a 2-man miniwagon from what I've seen. So I'll go ahead and do a semi-random

Vote: Elsa von Spielburg

, mainly for not posting all to much. No posts = no content = no information = good for scum.

I have no idea about whether the "no sheeping in RVS" comment is true or not. I'm not that up on the lingo/acronyms of this site but sounds like it means mafia can still add themselves to a vote and still possibly not stand out by using a random vote? It seems like it's the best way for them to "sheep" imo. It just seems to absolve them of any responsibility for their voting reason since it's random.

Well, asking about your mini-wagon seems to pointedly say "look at what I'm doing" which might not be something mafia would do but maybe that was your motive. To look forthcoming. It also seems like you are trying to move the game along and chose someone who initially posted but has now fallen silent. Aren't these initial votes to get people talking or to encourage activity?


General question (for anyone who wishes to answer): In looking back at Meransiel's "no sheeping in RVS" comment I have to ask, what is RQS? And do people ever take it easy on us newbies by explaining their acronyms? I can certainly go look them up but when there are three or four in just one post I get lazy.

[Miss JJ]

I'm at work so I kept getting interrupted during my post and now there are a few more since I first started. I agree that voting Thor while we know he won't be answering until on or after the 15th makes less sense than voting someone else. Unless votes usually just hang for a while at first but still, what's the point if it's directed at getting a response?

[Miss JJ]

respond to. At this point, it's not really horrible to take a closer look at the more active players: you, Trip, Staeg, FS, myself, and expect everyone else to join in and partake at some point.

Does the "you" mean me? If yes, then yes it makes sense...if no then it still makes sense, lol.

And yeah, I'm so hurt you left me out (of your later post).


EBWOP: what's a ninja?

[Miss JJ]

Meransiel, what's the time zone in Eden?

[Miss JJ]

Okay, thanks. A lot of Ninjas in this game. And I know you were picking at random, was just kidding.

My timezone is West coast - sorry not up on the GMT chart.

Also, what is "vig?"

[Miss JJ]

Hi Elsa, nice to see you again. I'm not seeing anything too alarming right now but as to your slight read on Scumhunter: I wouldn't have thought about that but it could be something. For now, I don't see a reason to keep my vote on you, let alone a reason you should have two. I do want to nudge Quil, though.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Quil

[Miss JJ]

Maybe his other games are more exciting. Could be true for Quil, also, lol, as I saw his posts in another game.


Edited during post: Yeah, looks like he's busy.

[Miss JJ]

Anyway. Does everyone have pretty decent availability? As you might be able to tell by my number of posts, I'm usually always at a computer during the week so I'm on here fairly often.

I'm usually a posting whore but I will admit playing with all you experienced players intimidates the heck out of me.

<<<Little fish in big sea

[Miss JJ]

I'm getting a town read on Quil because of two things:

1. He placed a vote on someone who was already voted.
2. I feel it was for a good reason.


UNVOTE: Quil

[Miss JJ]

1. He placed a vote on someone who was already voted.

Not a town-tell.

Townies should be by far more concerned about scumhunting rather than their own survival.

LOL one thing I notice about this site is there seems to be a "playbook" where there are rules about what is a towntell or what is scummy, etc. I usually just make my own decisions about what I think. Not everyone is cut out of the same cloth and I can't see looking at it that way. In my opinion, he wouldn't have done that if he were mafia but, of course, that's just one action and we're only on page 4 of Day 1. And yes, I agree that townies should be more concerned about scumhunting than their own survival but what does that have to do with my post?

[Miss JJ]

I should've explained it better, but that was also my opinion, not a hard fact ._.
"If he were mafia..." is WIFOM. That stuff is best kept out of games of mafia.

"If he were mafia" is no different than "town read" or "scum read." How is it WIFOM? Again, sorry but I can't just keep my opinions out of the game because they are "supposed to be" according to the wiki. Maybe you disagree with my analysis but I'm not just going to conform to the cookie-cutter mantra of the mafiascum wiki. I would certainly think that players aren't going to form their posts to comply with how they think their role should act according to the wiki. If that were the case, it would be super easy to identify everyone.

[Miss JJ]

Back to Scumhunter. I certainly don't think we have enough information to have him at L-1. What am I missing? Isn't that a bit dangerous? Staeg, how can you "promise" he won't be hammered? I think someone should unvote because there is MUCH more time to discuss.

[Miss JJ]

Yeah stop buddying with me. Get off!

[Miss JJ]

VOTE: Meransiel


For putting Scumhunter at L-1 unnecessarily at this early stage. This is a newbie game and not all of the newbies may understand not to hammer. I think it is a bad bad move.

[Miss JJ]

Wow, a lot to read. I'll make a post shortly.

[Miss JJ]

Okay, so first I want to say that L-1 may not be a big deal to some people but I still think it's too risky to do at this stage of the game. Who knows whether someone would hammer or not? We don't. Period. We can't control others' actions.

Staeg gave me some concerns with his "promise" that Scumhunter would be hammered but, in reading back on Staeg's posts, he did say he wouldn't mind being the target of a mini-wagon as long as he wasn't hammered prematurely:

Actually, I wouldn't mind a wagon on me (as long as I am not lynched prematurely).
Also, the Preview button is a kick in the balls for ninjas.

Which makes me think he didn't see it as a huge concern.


Firestorm makes me stratch my head with his promise to post and then silence. Also, his explanation of why he didn't makes no sense to me. Nor does this post:

Hmmm, I've read everything so far, and while I kinda want to vote Scumhunter for being scummy so far, I won't. That's only because I don't want to hammer when people still haven't seen the game.

(I believe Elsa already pointed this out as I am seeing as I go through the thread)


I'm not getting a scum read on Scumhunter. His posts seem to make sense to me and I just don't see anything standing out as scummy.


This post by Quilford raised my eyebrows:

Also TripMyWire and Meransiel's interactions seem town to me; pretty certain fingers would've been pointed harder if there was scum involved - instead it really just remained as friendly banter.

I assume he must be talking about TMW's vote of Meransiel....however, I don't agree with blanket statements like exactly how hard scum would point fingers. I also don't agree that if there is light banter going on the parties involved are probably town. Is he protecting one of them? Possibly.

Also this one:

Also I would expect more frustration from town about to be hammered than I saw in Scumhunter, but I think this could probably be put down to disbelief in someone hammering.

Don't agree here, either. I would have reacted the same way if I were Scumhunter.

Could be that Quil is trying too hard to keep the votes on Scumhunter by painting Meransiel as town and Scumhunter as scum, where I don't see his points carrying much weight, and I am not seeing Scumhunter as scum.


I still feel Meransiel's L-1 was premature and not warranted based on the post he referred to but I believe Meransiel when he says he doesn't feel it was such a big deal. I might disagree but still not feeling that makes him scum.


UNVOTE: Meransiel
VOTE: Quilford

@ Staeg. You mentioned insults/attacks. I may have missed it but can you point this out?

@ Firestorm. Can't wait to hear what you're holding back but I hope you post it soon.

[Miss JJ]

Thanks for the reply, Quil. I'll look at page 3 again as well as other posts. At this point my vote isn't a strong read on you, just the best read I have at this point.

[Miss JJ]

Hey guys. Just watched Survivor Finale and started reading Thor's post. Thor, I'm just gonna say that it's not really helpful to me to see statements like "page 2 - TripMyWire is town, banking on it." (just an example) I'd like to see what specifically on page 2 leads you to that. I'll get to more comments/questions about your post, as well as posts I just saw after yours, in a bit and I'm glad to see you think I'm "half-intelligent"... I think.

[Miss JJ]

[...]I'm glad to see you think I'm "half-intelligent"... I think.

He said that if we were scum that we were half-intelligent scum.... oh my gosh... did you just confess!?!?!?!?

LOL no, that was just my narcissistic side focusing on the part I cared about, since I dismissed the "scum" part. It's a good question, though, and I wonder if he still feels I'm half-intelligent as town.

[Miss JJ]

Thor, I forgot to say it before but welcome back. Now, onto my questions:

This post by Miss JJ is...well, a sorta sad defense of a very shakey and weak tell. But, it is ALSO the single best explanation of a newbie in showing awareness about what tells really are.

Okay I get it's a weak tell but I felt it was enough of a hint for me at the time but, that aside, I'm not quite getting your second sentence. It's just the whole sentence structure that's throwing me off there. I think you're saying that my "explanation" is what newbies use to explain their incorrect reads? LOL I'm sorry, I'm just lost in that sentence.

Page 3

This is so cute, Meran as town poo-bah on the font of wisdom While I will specifically note, nothing he says is 'wrong' I will add I disagree with a lot of it.

What do you agree/disagree with?

Page 4

Post 87 from Staeg is the scummiest thing I've seen thus far - he takes time to ding JJ for using a bad towntell on Quil (aka not wanting Quil to be seen as town) and then sheeps after Quil and pressures Scumhunter on a wagon not based on any tell worth spit.

Good point here. I am really trying to not use my "gut" in this game but really dissect posts and I really appreciate you pointing this out.


Okay, I'm not going to be annoying and quote the rest of your post but I do agree in retrospect that it would have been a better idea to "let Scumhunter stew" in his bandwagon instead of freaking out. Obviously you and I looked at one post of Quilford's completely differently so I guess I now need to figure out which of us is correct about Quil. As for Staeg, I'm not sad about your vote and intend to look into him further.

[Miss JJ]

I'm a genius and very handsome, probably lots of people should follow this vote.

Although it's incredibly difficult to resist your charismatic personality, and I think I may be in love, but I'm just ready to go that far just yet

Hmmm sucking up to the IC. Not very attractive, TMW.

[Miss JJ]

@ Staeg - I don't think that much of Firestorm's case. In fact, part of his case against you included a second "promise" to come back and comment on/explain something which he did not.

I have re-read these pages a few times and, to be honest, it's a bit difficult since it's only day 1 and there isn't a huge amount of anything to point to in my opinion. Just little snippets here and there but we have to look at something. Part of my problem is trying to wade through all the egos and thinly veiled insults as well as all the accepted rhetoric. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack for me, at least.

Firestorm's game style bugs me the most, though. Too many excuses and weak points for my liking. I can't say that means he's scummy, though. Just that I find his posts to be the least helpful.

[Miss JJ]

Other questions:
@TMW and Miss JJ: What do you think of Fire's... case?

As for the rest of his case... he's only on page 2 so... yeah. I'll wait til he has more.

You could be waiting a long time...

[Miss JJ]

Rules

(References: Hoopla, Nobody Special, Vel-Rahn Koon, zoraster)

Activity

1. You should aim for at least one post per 48 hours to keep the game moving.
2. Prods will be issued to players if they have not posted within a 72-hour period. I will also prod on request as long as at least 48 hours have passed since the player's last post.
3. A player who has been prodded has 48 hours to respond to the prod. If I do not receive a response, I will seek a replacement. If the player responds and is still interested in playing, and I have not yet found a replacement, the player may continue to play.
4. Players who have been prodded 3 times are subject to replacement without further notice. Player-requested prods do not count toward this total.
5. If you anticipate being away for at least 48 hours, please PM me or post a V/LA notice in the thread with the expected date of your return.

How long did you say it's been?

[Miss JJ]

Nevermind, I just ISO'd him. It's been over 72 hours.

[Miss JJ]

I mean 48 - I guess I'm not the math whiz of the group, lol.

[Miss JJ]

@Miss JJ - what's the scum case on Quil again? Last I checked at least three players have listed him as a strong town read. So...you really ought to be screaming your head off about that or putting your vote somewhere it will do some good....like Staeg.

Actually, I will. I didn't have a strong case on Quil, just a couple of snippets. And I do suspect Staeg. My only issue is part of it is a gut feeling...and I don't like to rely on that. But, I think the combined reads make sense for me to place my vote on him right now.

UNVOTE: Quil
VOTE: Staeg

[Miss JJ]

I believe that's L-1?

[Miss JJ]

Re-reading again. This is only Day 1 so we have very little to work with but I'm getting a very neutral read on TMW. Too neutral, I think. I guess should say "scum read" since that's what I now think. I don't know, you guys probably won't like my terms but oh well.

What bothers me is that he's one of the most active players, as well as the most congenial. He comes off as very intelligent but most of his posts are either buddying, chit chat or focusing mostly on players who aren't around and I just think he's been way too observant not to have some stronger statements than he has.

His vote is on Meransiel because of his vote on Scumhunter which was a pretty justifiable vote at the time imo (because I voted him first, of course ), but really that's strongest thing I think he's had to say thus far. And, I do think that vote didn't really put him out on the limb so he felt comfortable making it. And maybe even expected more of a wagon.

I don't have time right now to detail this by quoting his posts but I notice he will very often give a mixed opinion by stating that someone looks bad for one thing, then makes an excuse for them right after. I feel he is trying to stay non-committal on purpose.

One of the things that really bothers me is that he doesn't want to vote Staeg, yet doesn't give a hard opinion either way.

I stated my feeling on Staeg was mostly a feeling. I'm not sold enough to keep him at L-1 and I want to hear what TMW's reads are on everyone.

UNVOTE: Staeg
VOTE: TripMyWire

I'm sure if you guys disagree you can put Staeg back to L-1 but I don't feel comfortable with it anymore and I'm betting he will flip town.

[Miss JJ]

K I'm on my phone so I'll post more later when I get home but let me just say, Staeg you are either mafia or severely brain cell deficient. IF iI were scum and you aren't, why wouldn't I just keep my vote on you? Or better yet, not place it in the first place only to retract later?

Also, your request to be replaced on the brink of an impending lynch reeks of scum.

[Miss JJ]

Okay, first I will apologize to Staeg for the rude comment about your brain cells. I don't know why I felt especially snarky this morning but I really dislike insults in the game and I'm sorry. But, I still stand by everything else I said, lol.

Also, JJ, what you just said seems to be, "I'll vote TMW for not having a hard opinion on Staeg... I have no hard opinion on Staeg".

I agree with Meransiel - slight misrep. I

kind of

understand why you come to that conclusion, Elsa, but that is not quite correct, nor is it a very good summary of what I said about TMW. It's not that he doesn't have "a hard opinion" on Staeg. It's that he really didn't seem to have a hard opinion on anyone.

What got me thinking about TMW and encouraged me to ISO him in the first place last night was his post about having limited internet access on the 18th and 19th. My first thought was that, since it looked like Staeg might be hammered today by Quil, TMW was possibly setting up an alibi to use later, saying he couldn't possibly have been online if there was a NK. Then, I looked again at the deadline for Night and saw it was 72 hours, not 48, so that diminished my idea but I was still intrigued and decided to take another look at our friendly TMW, lol. I just noticed that post after post was friendly banter and he seemed to counter almost every read he had by a dismissal.

While I do understand the feeling of being unsure, I just think he seems to be paying too much attention to this game to be so wishy washy about everything. That being said, I realize some may say the same about me but, frankly, I'm not afraid to be wrong. I'm going to put what I think out there because I really want to figure this out.

[Miss JJ]

Great job, guys! It was interesting to watch...well a bit boring at the end but Thor kept me entertained in the Graveyard QT, Thor, I didn't love you in the beginning...the ego thing, lol....but you grew on me. Thanks for all the advice and comments on the game. You made it fun to keep following this and I really do think this was a good cast. I would also be happy to play with any one of you again.

TMW sorry about my convoluted scenario about you, lol. I definitely overthought that one, lol.

Equinox, good modding. I enjoyed the game. My first. Thanks!

[Miss JJ]

Oh, I also appreciated Equinox's presence and participation in the Graveyard QT. Thanks for a great game!

[Miss JJ]

Well, that was my initial reaction but I came to respect your play...so breed away.