Newbie 1103: Just Another Chaotic Town (Game Over)

[Staeg]

Vote: Quilford

For being the poster above me

[Staeg]

How so? Are you a short-name-vote-above-poster hater?

[Staeg]

I see your line of thinking, but this applies to you too, no?
Firestorm, why didn't your 1st post include a vote?

[Staeg]

You don't HAVE to, but not voting 1st post and then voting on 2nd post is weird.

[Staeg]

I know that feeling.

[Staeg]

I'm actually going to go ahead and disagree about "no sheeping in RVS." All other games go MUCH faster if you make even a 2-man miniwagon from what I've seen. So I'll go ahead and do a semi-random

Vote: Elsa von Spielburg

, mainly for not posting all to much. No posts = no content = no information = good for scum.

[Staeg]

It appears that I didn't

Unvote: Quilford

Vote: Elsa von Spielburg

[Staeg]

@FS: It's...a mouth of fresh air to see an utterly believable post. Yes, playing on MafiaScum is an aquired skill, you have to, at times, give up on what you instinctively think is a good playstyle and follow the meta.

And that is a good thing.

Gonna take that as a compliment lol.

Question; Do the games usually take this long for people to post, or is this a very quiet game compared to normal?

Unvote: Miss JJ

I seriously don't like voting people without any reason, even if it is a lol vote.

I think it was a compliment, too.
Not "usually," the activity in this game was fine before yesterday-today. I don't know what happened. There's been cases of day 1 ending in 1 RL hour.

@everyone: Any comment on my mini-wagon?

[Staeg]

TMW actually explained all I had in mind.

[Staeg]

I simply got lynched at [no mentioning ongoing games] for RVS BWing, so I was afraid to do so this time.

[Staeg]

Actually, I wouldn't mind a wagon on me (as long as I am not lynched prematurely).
Also, the Preview button is a kick in the balls for ninjas.

[Staeg]

1. He placed a vote on someone who was already voted.

Not a town-tell.

Townies should be by far more concerned about scumhunting rather than their own survival.

Vote: Scumhunter

That should be L-2

[Staeg]

Damn unvotes >.>

Unvote: Elsa von spielburg
Vote: scumhunter

[Staeg]

1. He placed a vote on someone who was already voted.

Not a town-tell.

Townies should be by far more concerned about scumhunting rather than their own survival.

LOL one thing I notice about this site is there seems to be a "playbook" where there are rules about what is a towntell or what is scummy, etc. I usually just make my own decisions about what I think. Not everyone is cut out of the same cloth and I can't see looking at it that way. In my opinion, he wouldn't have done that if he were mafia but, of course, that's just one action and we're only on page 4 of Day 1. And yes, I agree that townies should be more concerned about scumhunting than their own survival but what does that have to do with my post?

I should've explained it better, but that was also my opinion, not a hard fact ._.
"If he were mafia..." is WIFOM. That stuff is best kept out of games of mafia.

[Staeg]

Also: Don't claim yet. I promise you won't be hammered until you do, but you can still wiggle out of the lynch without giving maf priceless info.
Don't get overdefensive -- just look for scumtells/scumslips and point them out.

[Staeg]

I'm not even remotely convinced he's scum. He's simply the scummiest player so far.

[Staeg]

As long as there is no hammer and no claim, how is L-1 disastrous? Aside from SOME PEOPLE WHO INSTA-HAMMER CAUSE THEY CAN, I don't see what's the problem for pressure.

Also: Don't claim yet. I promise you won't be hammered until you do, but you can still wiggle out of the lynch without giving maf priceless info.
Don't get overdefensive -- just look for scumtells/scumslips and point them out.

It kind of defeats the purpose of putting pressure on someone. I don't think this is entirely scummy right now, but to coach someone when you're trying to pull reactions from them does not make much sense.

I wasn't trying to pull pressure off. I said that he shouldn't claim (he asked whether he should in another post afterwards and someone mentioned that L-1 is claimville) and "promise" would be, if scum want to trade a 1-for-3 exchange, so be it. I assumed that townies wouldn't hammer because me and some other people explained how dumb it is on page 4/5.

However, his reaction is pretty much like the "town-why-the-heck-are-you-lynching-me" guys;

Unvote: Scumhunter

[Staeg]

@Staeg: The "town-why-the-heck-are-you-lynching-me" card can be played by both town and mafia. Do you deny this?

Ermm... The "town" part of the whole saying is pretty indicative. There's a very small difference between "town-why-the-heck-are-you-lynching-me" and "scum-why-the-heck-are-you-lynching-me." I re-read his ISO and I'm having doubts about which is it. People who start using insults as attacks/defenses ARE scum, usually. So yeah, I do kinda deny it, since ONLY town can play the "town-why-..." card, but this came from me putting the - at the wrong place: it should look like "townie why-the-heck-are-you-lynching-me."
And I don't understand this Meransiel wagon either. We got some useful information.
Could anyone answer

As long as there is no hammer and no claim, how is L-1 disastrous?

?

[Staeg]

It isn't. But you don't know whether there will be a hammer or not, or whether there will be a claim or not when you put someone on L-1. What must've happened at some point was that newbies gained infamy from hammering or claiming early and a kind of taboo around placing people at L-1 evolved.

Well, I and Mer specifically stated not to hammer, and I stated not to claim. I don't think a newbie who reads the game would do either of these.

[Staeg]

What other reasons?

This is gonna sound scummy, but I'll choose to wait until it completes its purpose before saying the reson for my vote.

It isn't.

[Staeg]

It isn't gonna sound scummy. It didn't sound scummy.

[Staeg]

I'm doing this from my outdated phone while I wait for my friend... and this phone is difficult to work with so I'll be brief until I get to a computer.

@Meransiel... No, I didn't think that the L-1 on Scumhunter was deserved. That was the whole point of my post and vote changing.

From what I've gathered from you guys it seems like putting someone at L-1 isn't as serious as I thought.

@Firestorm... The thing about this game is that it's all about discussion and generating content to base decisions on. I don't know how you were taught but if you come in every once in a while with a small sentence with no real content or observations then it doesn't help us. I was just trying to get you more involved so there would be more discussion. I don't believe in the "wiki worship" or in any rule book and that stuff.... I have very little experience in this game or the "official" ways to play... but not adding anything to the discussion is not going to help us. And above all, we're here to have fun

Okay guys this post took me like 30 minutes to write. I'll post more when i get to my computer.

The seriousness of a L-1 is dependent on the case. This was a semi-RVS wagon, so obviously a lynch/claim shouldn't be achieved.
While I agree that Fire isn't all too useful, spamming the thread with wall-posts isn't all too helpful, either.

[Staeg]

snip
Page 4

Post 87 from Staeg is the scummiest thing I've seen thus far - he takes time to ding JJ for using a bad towntell on Quil (aka not wanting Quil to be seen as town) and then sheeps after Quil and pressures Scumhunter on a wagon not based on any tell worth spit.
snip
Firestorm and Staeg are my players of interest at the moment, I want one of them dead.
This Post...I...he...Staeg's best town motivated reason for his attack on Scum was to pressure him to get reactions...he then *immediately* baby-coddles him and tries to talk him through it without even getting a reaction from him. I do not like this, Staeg is my vote when this wall is over unless someone basically claims scum in the next two pages.
LOL Okay, I admit it, maybe I'm confirm biasing because I like his style. But seriously - town tell, right here.

I wanted to point out that the towntell isn't really a town-tell in my book. Defending this any more than I already have (not a lot) would be pointless.
The wagon was a pressure wagon. I'm sure I already said this. I know the reason ain't worth spit. Admitting that the reason ain't worth spit while the wagon was going would ruin the purpose. The reason I "baby-coddle" him is because I was afraid either someone would hammer or that he should claim. A question (non-rhetorical one): If you knew that I was the only one online at the time and didn't warn scumhunter not to claim and he DOES claim, say, doc, I'd be on the chopping block immediately, no?

snip
Staeg "whoah, people are calling Scumhunter town? I'll make a huge post *defending me* for helping run him up and how I did it...now I'll unvote...I have no further direction to offer...yes...

Blatant misrep. I never thought he was scum. You even pointed out how I "guided" him. Would I guide scum? <<<rhetorical question.

snip
TMW and JJ, if scum, are at least half intelligent scum. I lean more townish on JJ of the pair. I strongly doubt they are scum together, I'd bet my beard on it.

A question (not an insult)... Is this saying that I'm stupid? It implies so.

snip
Opinions of what I've seen each page and who I suspect;

Page 1;
Lots of random votes to start with. Not much of a read there, and apparently I am exotic (dunno how to react to that.)

Staeg votes person directly above, Meransiel catches that out, Staeg immediately changes the topic to something else. Scummy read there.

Page 2;
Only posts I see from Scumhunter are about percentages, which is kinda pointless since it doesn't really mean anything at all. Kind of a null read.

Staeg votes Elsa for not having many posts yet. It's only Page 2, I don't get this. Slight scum reading here.

Miss JJ intrigues me. Something about the posts is just strange to me. Parts seem pro-town, yet parts seem scummy, I don't really know how to react there. She kind of flies under the radar for me.

Meransiel seems pro-town so far. Based on Pages 1 and 2, he seems most pro-town.

TripMyWire is neutral so far, not really a strong read from him.

Summary of Pages 1 and 2; Staeg is first suspect, nobody else jumps out yet.

I'll say the rest in another post, because the wall here is getting big.

How so that you attack me exactly after the "sleeper" comes back, who also happens to attack me?
To explain the P1 things: How is my random vote scummier than any other's...? Seriously.
P2: explained this already.

Other questions:
@TMW and Miss JJ: What do you think of Fire's... case?

[Staeg]

spamming the thread with wall-posts isn't all too helpful, either.

what wall-posts?

The one I just made, sadly. It was more of a warning not to do so, outside of catch-up posts.

[Staeg]

Okay, more posts in ~9 hours, but I'm a VT. I'd prefer to state my reads before death, if possible.

[Staeg]

Sorry guys, computer is frying itself. Reads coming up in ~30 mins.

[Staeg]

Okay, fuck, my computer is roast.

MOD: Request replacement

I'll post what I got this far and a short line about everyone else:
My reads:
FireStorm

(Leaning town)

: First, sorry for misrepping you. I don't know why, but I didn't recall your vote on me. I still don't understand how your "part-case" makes any sense. I called it a "case" because it was mainly against me and VERY little about anything else. I'm awaiting the rest of your (re-)read. Question: If I may know already, what was the reason to vote me in the "confidential reasoning" post?
Thor665

(leaning town)

: The answer to your question on ISO post 3: I never said that it isn't a scumtell. The reason why it isn't worth to defend my stance is (quoting you): "Whether or not you believe it's a town tell is rather meaningless to whether or not I consider it a town tell," pretty much says it all; we have different perceptions on different things. This thing has so little meaning it isn't worth discussing. A question: Seeing as you're convinced I'm scum, who's my scumbuddy? What if *gasp* I flipped town?
Scumhunter

(leaning scum)

: "I'm not scummy. You guys just play bad." what the heck is this? I don't see how is such AtE town. Null, maybe. Why, after stating that I'm scum, did it take 2 reminders from Thor for you to vote me? I'm also not following how both Thor and me should be considered scum together yet. Hyperbussing when your partner is under little suspicion... not yet (I realise that was WIFOM, but WIFOMing to this degree is dumb from both perspectives). The part about me "being blow by the wind" is not really true -- I even said not to hammer. VERRRRYYY excited for a mislynch.
Elsa von Spielburg

(null-town)

Meransiel - no read, not even null
TripMyWire

(null)

Miss JJ

(leaning scum)

Quilford

(leaning town)

[Staeg]

Her fencesitting on me. I didn't get a town read on her before, so this put her on "leaning scum."
I'm posting from my Wii. If you think I should stay in the game, say so, it isn't a burden for me; it's a burden for the whole town.

[Staeg]

I can't make multi-quotes nor posts larger than ~6 lines without wasting the whole day making them.

Mod: /retract request

, since you guys said so.

[Staeg]

No offense taken. The reason you wouldn't want to keep your vote on me is, as you said, it seemed like I'd be hammered and you could go all "TOLD U" tomorrow once I flip town. The "You guys can go ahead and lynch, but I'll unvote" is what gave me this feeling.

Vote: Miss JJ

[Staeg]

No offense taken. The reason you wouldn't want to keep your vote on me is, as you said, it seemed like I'd be hammered and you could go all "TOLD U" tomorrow once I flip town. The "You guys can go ahead and lynch, but I'll unvote" is what gave me this feeling.

Vote: Miss JJ

I dislike this comment and I strongly disagree.

What exactly do you disagree with?

[Staeg]

Nope. Hence "leaning."

[Staeg]

You don't have a stronger scumread at this point?

No, I don't. Other than me, who do you find scummy?
Also

Thor: what if *gasp* I flipped town?

[Staeg]

@Staeg: I have to put up with that 5 days a week. Hence the walls. Anyway, questions:

Why can't you read me?
Why did you change your opinion on Scumhunter? You claimed you don't think he was scum, and now you're going back on it.

I don't know.
Exactly - I didn't. I do now. He hasn't scumhunted (a read-list isn't scumhunting), claimed that "we're doing it wrong" and is now tagging along with my wagon.

[Staeg]

@everyone except Thor: if Thor, for whatever reason, would get Modkilled (not suggesting this) and flipped scum, would you change your view on me?

[Staeg]

@Staeg: Not scumhunting and telling us we're "doing it wrong" were things Scumhunter was doing BEFORE you said you don't think he's scum.
So basically your suspicion on Scumhunter is omgus.
And your case on Miss is bad too.

He had tons of possibilities to redeem himself.
Er...no.
Okay...? Why?

@everyone who posted, answer the question in 245, please.

[Staeg]

Can mod fix the ugly quote tags? Pwease?

Done. (Equinox)

[Staeg]

Kay. GG all, even though I was probably the smallest asset. Also...

Also

Thor: what if *gasp* I flipped town?

Oh, and mock you slightly in endgame

Quil, if you're gonna have a win-count in your sig, at least update it ._.