Newbie 1122 (Game Over|Scum Win)

[Maruchan]

M'kay, Hi everyone, I spent a couple of hours yesterday reading most of your game. I thought this would be relatively similar to the previous mafia games I have played (all in online chat-based mafia websites), but Forum-based mafia I have learned seems a bit tougher.

I do like how you guys start in a day cycle by default. Means the town DOES have a mislynch right off the bat. Not saying it is always in town's best interest to use it, but it is helpful to know the first lynch that happens doesn't throw us into an auto-lose setup if they aren't mafia.

Greetings, Maruchan! I believe I've eaten some of your ramen.

I do believe I have the best Ramen. I avidly recommend the Cups o Noodles myself.

1) About how many games have you played on MafiaScum.net? About how many have you played elsewhere?
2) Which time zone are you in?
3) Cake or pie?
4) Are you scum? Why or why not?
5) Do you prefer scum or Town roles?

1. 0 on this site, this will be my first. Elsewhere, probably around 300-400. Chat-Based though, so a game only takes roughly 10 minutes if you're fast to 2 hours if you're slow as a turtle.
2. I am in Central Timezone, which as the IC earlier pointed out, is currently in Daylight time, so I am for now in GMT-5, although usually it would be -6.
3. Pumpkin Pie. Nothing beets Pumpkin Pie with Whip Cream. Of course, if Pumpkin isn't an option, I'll take a slice of cake any day.
4. I am total Scum. No I joke. What scum would answer this question truthfully though? Isn't that a punishable offense.
5. I have yet to play a game in forum-based so as such I do not have an opinion. In the Chat-Based site I use, I prefer Town, just because as long as you aren't in the site's "basic setup" (1 cop 1 doc, 2 regular maf, 3 vanillas), the town usually has an advantage.



Now that I have the pleasantries out of the way, I believe I will follow in Ellf's footsteps and VOTE: numberQ.

At first, reading through, I thought that zMuffinMan seemed rather scummy early on, then when he flipped the vote to the other player he was "arguing" with, I thought it seemed rather erratic. But I think that is just his Meta? as you guys call it. Meta here means your playstyle or something similar right? I think MuffinMan just has a confrontational, up "in-your-face" playstyle. Yes, he is still on my "to watch carefully" list, but I am less inclined to think without a doubt he is the scum. So if the goal of day 1 is to perform a lynch, rather than a no lynch, numberQ seems my likely suspect, after reading some of the debates for why people think he is scum.

However, I think it is personally in the greater interest of the town to perform a no lynch, due to someone will die tonight anyways, and it gives the cop a free report. He can investigate whoever he thinks is the scummiest, and then we might get a good kill. This is usually the strategy played in the other mafia site I visit, but like I said, Forum-based has different strategies and tells than chat-based. It is much harder for mafia to "blitz" in forum-based, due to the non-instant form of communications.


I think that about sums up what I wanted to say?

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: I read earlier on that there was a feature that if someone posts while you are typing it'll show you the new post before you have to submit your post, for soem reason it didn't do that for me


Also, whoever mentioned the idea that the odds are one of the experienced players is a scum, I agree, there is a likely chance one of them is, not due to their experience, but because of the ratio of experienced players to how many scum roles there are.


(I started typing this about an hour ago but had to go sell my car real fast)

Think about it, zMuffinMan.

Also, I find that his vote on NumberQ is very bad. It looks like an opportunity vote and his justification is weak.

Also, Oman and Packbat where are you guys?

Oh you're right I see. then No Lynching is DEFINITELY bad because there is a 100% chance of a scum RoleCop, and only a 58% chance of a town Cop. so Lynching IS the smart option, thank you for correcting me.

Small: Okay, I have to know, are you one of these super-young scummers that make me feel old?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I feel like answering it anyways. Yes, I am. 17 years old here. X.X

--

What about my play did you think was scummy? The confrontation or the erraticism or was there something else?

Is there any other reason for your vote than following in your predecessor's footsteps? Do you have an opinion on numberQ?

I just found you're whole bearing towards accusations thrown against you a bit off from what I would personally expect. I found that you didn't change your vote at all from your RVS until around page 5 or 6 a bit off also, means you know something about the vote you are voting on, which if you were scum you'd know the best player in the game (hypothetically) is NOT on your team. See my reasoning? However, you did change your vote eventually, albeit it it was what in my mind I see as a form of OMGUSing, voting on the person who is confrontational with you. But like I said, the more I thought about it or read other players' arguments, I realized that might just be your personality. I know in the Chat-Based when I am a PR and its day two or three, I get really up in your face like that, and alot of people dislike me for it, even when I am the un-cced (not sure if you guys have this term, un-counter claimed) PR. But personality doesn't mean I totally erase you from my mind in all pictures of scummieness, after all, from my POV, you all are scum. 6 of you are just less scum .

----
In case anyone is wondering why I said 58% chance of cop rather than 50, there is a 25% chance 1 player gets cop (four roles to chose from) leaving one person with THREE roles in the "role bin", for a 33% chance of each. So, unless there can be two cops or two docs or two jailers, there is a 58% chance of any given role in that setup being in play. if there CAN be two, then there is a 50% chance there will be at least 1 of any given role.

_{Fixed Tags
~Robo}

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: i fucked up my post tags /facedesk

[Maruchan]

EBWOP again: god I can;t believed I missed this! To answer MuffinMan asking why I was keeping my vote where I was, rather than just following in the footsteps, I rather agreed with the arguments for scum on numberQ back on pages 2-3. I don't think I saw any counter-arguments against his scum other than the "Scum or PR", which by saying this, means scum might target him tonight anyways, so he dies anyways, in which case, I would rather lynch a 50/50 scum/PR so that I get the 50% chance of the scum dying rather than the 0% chance of scum 100% chance of PR dying.

[Maruchan]

That said, I'm beginning to wonder about the people reiterating suspicions of zMuffinMan - it would not surprise me that scum would want to try to keep that option open.

Does my post con't as reiteration, or uhm (what would you call reiteration without the "re"?)?

[Maruchan]

Wait. Maru, aren't you voting Number and advocating a no-lynch at the same time?

I was, but I changed my mind when I realized the setup. I still had in my mind a guaranteed cop.

Someone pointed out which I forgot, there is a random of the four possibilities, so we might not have a cop. in which Case I'd rather not NL.

No.

Why couldn't I have voted Packbat early if he is my scum partner?

In the first place, why does this mean I know something about Packbat? Wouldn't it make more sense to assume the opposite?

It would, if you hadn't defended why you were voting him. and kept wanting to vote him for 4 consecutive pages when he was supposed to be just a RVS vote. Thats why I said when you changed your vote, you're scummieness died just a little in my eyes, except you're new vote is what I consider a form of OMGUS.

So you'd rather lynch a player who has a chance of being a PR then let scum try to NK them?

What about the arguments on p2/3 did you agree with and why?

1.) I didn't even consider the scum NKing to lull the town into being complacent thinking there was a doc. that is a viable strategy, I just hadn't thought of it. In which case you are right it does make sense to not want to vote of the person we think is 50/50 PR/Scum
2.) I agreed at the fact that he tried to justify his first vote while calling it an RVS and OMGUSing it all at the same time seemed rather scummy. Along with the arguments on page 4 or 5 someone said along the lines of accusing you of trying to mentor him into voting by asking why he had no vote? Which goes along with my reasoning that you seem slightly scummy to me.

for now, UNVOTE: numberQ but this is just more to not have to defend vote rather than because I don't truly think he is scummy, I have no guaranteed plan of action as of this point, but my current leads are Muffin and numberQ.

--
HEY, this time the post while you were typing thing worked. sweeet.

I am - although it was really Maruchan's post which attracted my attention in the first place. His attitude toward zMuffinMan seemed inconsistent on casual reading.

Anything in particular to point out, so I can see what I said that made you notice me? Just a general "help me get better" thing, or so I can explaign my reasoning.

--
TAKE 3:

EBWOP: Not a town-tell - that post was actually IIoA.

I refrained from answering because I wasn't picking up any tells from it. now I understand why I wasn't picking up tells. IoA and IIoA are something you don't tend to have to deal with in chat-based. Although now that I have learned of them, I will be looking more for it in my chat-based games.

[Maruchan]

Maruchan, it is generally better to lynch someone rather than a no lynch as you are effectively taking away a town's "kill" and giving a free one to the scum. Basically you would be starting off the game as if it was night instead of day, something that I am pretty sure you said you didn't like from your chat based games. That seems contradictory.

I see what IIoA is now. Although, this is the only game that I have ever seen someone actually bring that up. O_o

And based off what zMuffin said, wouldn't IIoA be a scum tell? Since you aren't actively looking for scum?

I am beginning to doubt the NumberQ scum and feeling more like Maruchan scum. Your unvote seems like an attempt to backpedal and step out of the spotlight so you don't feel pressured. It doesn't feel like a town thing to do, especially given how many games you've played on your chat based Mafia site.

Please do not use my experience to think I am good.

Quick run down of a chat-based game:

cop: cop here guilty
maf NO IM COP GUILTY ON HIM NOT MY PARTNER
third random townie kid: NO IM THE REAL COP
-commence lynching real cop-
third townie kid: oshit i retract
-commence lynching third random townie kid-
-town loses-
THE END

This is much more in depth than a chat-based game by far.
Also, I am not backpedaling I still suspect muffinman and numberq, and am watching them the hardest, but I just removed my numberq vote because muffinman DID point out that lynching the kid if we think he is either scum or PR is a bad idea. I was originally telling myself it is a good idea, because I did not realize his strategy of maf NK to "prove there is a doc".

Therefore on the chance numberq really is a PR, lynching him is no longer a safe bet in my mind, originally I thought it was, due to the chance of scum. Get what I mean?

[Maruchan]

IIoA isn't a scum tell, but it is a nice way to look like you're contributing when you aren't really contributing.

Like this post, for example. Man I'm good at contributing.

Yakno, I think I might just like you. even if you're scum, your playstyle is cohesive to mine.

[Maruchan]

To Quote

Code: Select all

[quote="Player Name Here"] What they said goes here. [/quote]

Which would appear as,

What they said goes here.

Don't forget the quotation marks around the player name.

Remember, the preview button is your friend. You should preview your post for mistakes before posting. Due to the fact you cannot edit.

Hope this helps,
~Robo

thanks for the help. Every time I type the quote tags, every site is different, some require the " some is ' some nothing, so I always screw up the first time I try typing them by hand.

[Maruchan]

I could've sworn I just posted something......

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: I posted it in the queue thread rather than here.

/facedesk

By the way, what's this "QuickTopic" thing I've been hearing a bunch about in the rules and such? I'm not understanding how the mafia can converse at night, while making it "public" so the mod can monitor it, while also keeping it private so the town members can't see it.

O.o

[Maruchan]

ENWOP again: Also someone answered. its a whole other site. I thought it was a feature on this site or something.

[Maruchan]

...I would say that, if you are town, you might lay off on the stream-of-consciousness stuff in your posting. It is worth being aware in your own head of what is shaping your opinions, if only to be able to figure out how you ended up fooling yourself post-mortem, but it is much more profitable during the game to present your best conclusions at the time of writing, integrating everything you've seen. For one thing, it reduces the extraneous data.

It wouldn't be stream of consciousnesses if I had spread it out throughout the 7 pages worth of discussion I missed.

Basically, since I was coming in late, I was trying to recap my thoughts on the game as I read through from beginning to end.

TO kind of "act like I've been here all along" kind of thing.

Also, you just did the "oh, people don't like it, so I'm unvoting" thing. I didn't like it when numberQ did it, and I don't like it from you.

I then went on to explain that it was pointed out to me that lynching the person I thought had to be either scum or PR was a bad idea, due to the no kill to "feint a doc" option. That strategy by a mafia player is really what made me realize that killing him was bad, he MIGHT not die tonight, due to A.) that strategy being used, B.) doc actually being in the setup and being on him.

So I realized since it wasn't guaranteed if he was town he would die tonight (from my take on the situation), it no longer made sense to lynch him of the chance he wasn't town.

That is why I actually unvoted. He still seems scummy to me, but I am no longer lynching him in the case of scum/PR either way he is. only if he is the first.

Does that make sense?


Also I'm with numberQ on the bolded section, I don't get what you're saying there.


Also, on a side note of Information instead of analysis, if any of you picked up any tells on Ellf before I joined, even though the posting wasn't by me, the tells still apply to me. just keep that in the back of your mind. Town or Maf.
Same goes for Robo/whoever replaces him

----

PEdit: nevermind, you replied to numberQ so no need to reply to my reiteration of numberQ's statement.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: on the chance, not of

[Maruchan]

my continuous look on you two has nothing with current or new information, it has to do with my original FoSes on you about pages 2, 3, 4, or 5, and a lack of anyone else pointing in either direction since. Does that make sense?

I mean I have seen most the counter arguments for my original reasons on you, and MuffinMan I think he just has an abrasive personality (his "meta" persay?). But I did FoS you two over others early on, and my gut is usually the smartest thing to follow when I have no leads from my brain. Do you get what I mean or am I being to complicated? Its like I took it off because like I said earlier, I have no set people I am 100% sure I believe are scum, but you two have had the only scummy behavior I've really picked up on all game. So until someone else acts remotely scummy, I don't move my FoSes. I've learned and have always played that I should always have my finger on two people at any given time, and nobody else has done anything scummy that I have noticed, so although the scum has been questioned, spotlighted, and partially removed, my finger still resides on the two of you.


Completely off-topic, I have an alt on another sight called TheMuffinMan so every time I see MuffinMan I'm like -reads about me- oh hey that was nice -realizes it isn't me- -scrolls down- -reads about Maruchan- that... not so much.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: nothing to do * missed the "to do" in the last post. Thats what happens when you write a reply to an analytic thinking game after spending 3 hours hanging out with friends I guess. lol

[Maruchan]

/facedesk also the "do you get what I mean" comments aren't sarcastic to make me seem condescending, they're serious. I usually have a hard time putting my thought process into words other people can't read without going "huh?"

[Maruchan]

I don't know whether this is genuine or not, but that seriously muddied the waters in terms of my read on you.

I don't know if thats good or bad for me, as i don't know what your read on me before was, but I am sorry for making the game more confusing for you.

[Maruchan]

Because it's much easier for scum to just ignore me and call me town than confront me. I'm a confrontational, argumentative player. I like that sort of stuff. Generally scum want to avoid me like the plague because they're more likely to slip up in heated arguments with me than in logic battles with less argumentative types.

Because of your comment below, does this mean you see Val as town then, and just misguided, or do you think she is scum, and you just contradicted yourself? I'm just curious about your feelings on Val, as I just isolated her posts and her feelings on you are quite clear. Also you're "I'm a confrontational argumentative player" argument I am going to go check out by seeing if these forums utalize a feature on scummers profiles that allows me to view your past games. If its true, which I believe it is as it is rather hard to fake, that actually does make you look less scummy to me, unfortunately, which leaves me confused as to who it may be if not you.

That said, are you going to do anything other than tunnel on me this game? You know, even if I were scum, I'd have a partner. And if I'm town and you're wrong, you're not doing anything to find actual scum. Wanna give your thoughts on the rest of the game?

I didn't notice it till you pointed it out, but Val he is right. You are tunneling him, and tunneling is never a good play for either town or scum. Just as a friendly piece of advise.

[Maruchan]

Has smallpeoples been around recently? I think I'll go with an isolate his posts and see what he's been saying.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP, Oh I see he just recently got back from a V/LA so I hadn't seen much of him in the page or two before I replaced in.

gah, V/LA's make it hard to get tells on people, because its like they aren't there during the discussion, just after it to see outcomes. oh well.

[Maruchan]

Quick Question, numberQ, what is your experience in terms of past Mafia games, real life, online, or otherwise, and what would you say your skill level is if you had to guess?

[Maruchan]

I was just entertaining in my mind that maybe you were using a complex strategy of allowing everyone to think you were a PR or scum, so that we wouldn't lynch you, hoping for a PR, then the maf would kill you.

Its called softclaiming. but I have like never seen newer players pull it off, or even consider it, so I'm back to thinking you're either scum or PR.

Sorry Bro. <3

[Maruchan]

UNVOTE: numberQ
VOTE: Maruchan

With every post he makes, his intentions look less and less towny.

could you explain what looks not towny for me please?

[Maruchan]

MuffinMan, good luck on the IC game.

[Maruchan]

it protects the real PRs. if a blue were to softclaim, and draw all suspicion onto themselves, and they AREN'T lynched, then the mafia would think they are PR, and kill them, a blue, rather than hitting a PR.

So if the mafia are killing someone anyways, its would be smart to softclaim a role as a blue, to attract suspicion from the mafia. But softclaim too hard, and the real role might claim and then you look scummy.

[Maruchan]

It's 1 vote. Am I supposed to be scared?

No. Are you?

I asked whether you had anything to add to the game, I'm not sure how that implied that you should be scared because someone voted for you. Your #217 was a bit... lacking in content...

Do you have any suspects outside of numberQ?

--

@maru,

Any particular reason you're not voting at the moment? Who is your top suspect and why?

right now I honestly don't know. the past 2 days I've been side tracked, I plan on going through and isolating everyone's post and reading ti separately, then reading through the whole thing again and then voting.

[Maruchan]

M&M as in me and muffinman?

So you think I was bussing my continuous FoS on him for a page and a half till i realized thats just his meta.

[Maruchan]

M&M as in me and muffinman?

So you think I was bussing my continuous FoS on him for a page and a half till i realized thats just his meta.

Meta is a horrible reason to vote or not to vote someone. And yes M&M as Maruchan and zMuffinMan.

beyond the point I was trying to make. and I hadn't voted him before I just said I suspected him. and then I realized his aggressive in your face behavior wasn't scummy, it was his personality.

[Maruchan]

VOTE: ValiliaRei

The tunnelingg seemed really scummy. every single post involved a finger at MuffinMan.

[Maruchan]

Speaking of which: Maruchan seems way more on top of things than his "oh, I've only played chat, I don't know how to play forum" stance suggests. I don't think anyone even suggested the

idea

of softclaiming in this thread before Maruchan brought it up, for example.

Just a side note, softclaiming is highly encouraged in chat-based in when you play Competitive (that is, you're playing with other experienced players who understand the game), because if you softclaim as doc, then the mafia will try and kill you, saving the doc. I was just curious of his experience with Mafia, because softclaiming is something I never understood until a month or two after playing Mafia. He then asked why I was curious about his past experience, so I was telling him the theory that lead me to it.

[Maruchan]

Also, As I stated earlier, I still agree with the original stance of "One of the experienced players is likely to be scum"

So I think Panacea, PackBat, or MuffinMan is part of the scum team.

[Maruchan]

Also, As I stated earlier, I still agree with the original stance of "One of the experienced players is likely to be scum"

So I think Panacea, PackBat, or MuffinMan is part of the scum team.

That's not how the setup works. In

every

newbie game (and most non-newbies) the moderator assigns roles completely randomly - they make a list of players, a list of roles, randomize one list and assign it to the other. The scum team could end up being two complete novices who proceed to make a hash of the entire thing -

and often is.

In fact, by the numbers, with one IC and two SE's, exactly

half the time

both scum will be newbies.

This is a subject we discussed on page three of

this game

- I can see no reason for you to be this obtuse about it.

read one of my earlier posts. I explained why I think his assumption is correct, and it has nothing to do with their experience levels. it has to do with the fact there are 3 experienced players out of 9, and 2 mafia roles. so there is a 1:3 ratio of experienced members to non-experienced, meaning 1 in every 3 players is an SE or IC. therefor there is like somewhere between a 33 and 49 percent chance at least ONE of them is mafia.

add that to playing from my PoV, and it means 3/8 of the other players is experiences, and 2/8 are mafia. so if you play from each players' PoV, rather than from the overall town PoV, there is an even greater chance that an experienced player is mafia. Just due to odds, nothing to do with their experience.

[Maruchan]

yes, there are two mafia. I haven't seen scum from you guys yet. I saw tunneling from Val.

[Maruchan]

Also I think with day-starts the way the forum mafia is set up, you don't really see as much "tells" persay from anyone day one. I think the game will get more obvious day 2. Thats why I refrained from voting for a few days to is I wasn't picking up any tells, so I wanted to re-read to see if I could pick up tells but I really wasn't picking up much, the only scummyness detected (besides's muffinman's attitude-type personality) was the tunneling.

[Maruchan]

"Tells" are overrated. You don't find scum by looking for "tells", there are far better ways to find scum, and "tells" are unreliable.

For example, right now, I'm working off PoE and town reads. To that end, I think at least one of you and Oversoul is scum.

town reads/town tells are the same thing pretty much...?

[Maruchan]

so one is based on what information is in a game in a post, and one is based on your gut feeling (which can be biased based on personal feelings for said player), and the first one is the one that is inaccurate?


PEdit: Muffinman, I see what you mean, and that does make sense yes.

[Maruchan]

Oh! Maru, will you consider an avatar? It makes reading a lot easier, believe it or not. G'night, all!

yes I have one I just haven't bothered to upload it on THIS site yet. gimme a sec.

[Maruchan]

better?

[Maruchan]

I had been reading it, and i was merely curious. it seemed like an ineffectual way of keeping mafia meetings secret, so it confused me. I like Knowing. Its the way I am, when I am curious about something it bugs me and bugs me until I figure it out, and I didn't want to wait until I got a mafia role, because that could be awhile. We'd have to finish this game first, then I'd have to finish however many more until i got one.

[Maruchan]

I wasn't then, but now I get it. You guys are thinking I may be scum asking how to access my QT. But doesn't the mod PM a link to the QT? I thought I read either in the mod rules on this thread or in the wiki that when the confirmation stage happens, the scum get the links to their WT. Which is why I was curious what a QT was, as I had never heard the term before.

[Maruchan]

Oh. I thought you were implying I might be mafia asking how to ask my QT. O.o I was way off then

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: access*

[Maruchan]

@Maru: I know some time has passed, but what prompted you to mention reads on Elff back in #207?

Was trying to be helpful to everyone, as I realized before I even subbed in that people who sub in have to hope the person they subbed for was good at playing. I realized that RTBW had to rely on any tells the person he subbed in for had (except then i realized the person eh subbed in for didnt ever post), so I was just trying to be helpful in telling everyone, hey. Ellf's tells are my tells. Thats what happens when you sub in. Just trying to throw out a tidbit I realized that I wasn't sure if everyone had realized.

@Maru: Why did you bring up softclaiming D1 like that? From my perspective, it looks like you're scum trying to gauge whether the most scrutinized player is a PR.

I wasn't going to bring up softclaiming if I thought he could pull it off. Once I believed he wasn't experienced enough to pull it off, and asked me why I wanted to know, I saw no harm in telling him my theory that i no longer believed. If I thought he did have the experience to know to allow us to all think he was PR as a softclaim, I would have let him so as to sacrifice himself for the mafia. Now the mafia are wondering if I am wrong, and he DOES have the experience to pull off a softclaim, or if I am right, and he really is a PR. might just save him tonight if the mafia decide to kill.

So I think Panacea, PackBat, or MuffinMan is part of the scum team.

And... your vote is on Rei..? Surely you don't think this setup is 4-way mafia?

I said part intentionally. I think the other part has more likely odds to be a newbie. I'd rather be wrong about a newbie being maf and lynching someone who doesn't know how to play as well, then be wrong about an experienced player being maf, and lynch someone who DOES know how to play well.

@Maru: Where'd you hear about QuickTopics, exactly?

I read about like 30 wiki pages, all the rules, and the instructions on the Queue thread, along with read through most of the interactive newbie guide before I even began to sign up for the sight. I could prowl my Browser History if you like, and tell you the exact page I first saw it on?

[Maruchan]

I've ISO'd Maruchan's posts. The first thing I noticed was that very single opinion he's had has been a rewarmed opinion from somebody else.

But personality doesn't mean I totally erase you from my mind in all pictures of scummieness, after all, from my POV, you all are scum.

6 of you are just less scum

.

This caught my eye because the math seemed off. Maruchan minus "most scummy person" leaves seven people remaining. But, Maruchan minus scum partner minus "most scummy person" leaves six people remaining. Scumslip?

9 people-me = 8 people -- As I said, from my PoV
8 people-2 scum = 6 people -- how many town are left

If you had read that much on the wiki and website, then why didn't you try to wiki "quick topic" before you posted? I tried it just now to see and it had the explanation and link to the external site right there on the page. I also checked the timestamps on your posts, and you posted your question in the queue, received your answer, thanked them for answering, then reposted the question here for us to see. Why did we need to see it? Were you trying to make yourself look like a "confirmed town" since *sarcasm* scum couldn't possibly be that clueless about quicktopics */sarcasm*

I honestly just did not think about wikiing quicktopics. I am a very intelligent person (not trying to brag, this is inherent to my point), however I have ZERO common sense. I hate Google, because I can't usually ever find what I need on it. I never see the easy option, and I always make things 10X harder for myself than they need to be. If you'd like, I can go see which of these pages exactly got me my first mention of quicktopics.

As for timestamps, I posted here before I read that, saying "I could have sworn I posted something..." Then I quoted what I posted, so you all knew what the f I was talking about. Although you are correct, I should have added in "They already answered it for me"

Wednesday, July 6, 2011
11:54 PMmafiascum.net • View topic - Newbie Game Queue (Players and Mods)
11:54 PMmafiascum.net • View topic - Newbie 1122 (Day One|Dealine: July 19th)
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[Maruchan]

EBWOP: THe oldest is at the BOTTOM, it goes up

[Maruchan]

EBWOP2:

Mod wrote:
Mafia

name (a Mafia RoleCop) and name (a Mafia Goon) are part of the local Mafia crime family. Since your plot to quietly overtake the town has failed, you will attempt take it by force by eliminating the others until you outnumber the populace.

During the day, try to blend in with the normal Townies and attempt to get someone lynched.
During the NIGHT cycle ONLY, you may talk with your fellow Mafia (via QuickTopic, linked below) and choose another player in the town to kill that night.
One of you must send the moderator a PM with your choice of who to kill and who is performing the kill before the Night deadline.
The Mafia RoleCop has the ability to investigate another player and learn their specific role (Townie, Cop, Doc, or Jailkeeper).
One of you must send the moderator a PM with your choice of player that you want to investigate (usually along with the kill) before the Night deadline.
If the Mafia RoleCop is blocked by a Town Jailkeeper then the RoleCop will receive a PM stating “No Result”.
You may communicate privately via QuickTopic with your fellow Mafia up until the game thread is opened (this is called Night 0). Once the game begins, all outside communication must cease until the night cycle.
Please do not communicate with each other outside of the QT.
You win when the number of Mafia equals or exceeds the number of remaining Town players, whether you survive to the end or not.

This, found in game table 1119, is the first mention I had of QuickTopics, by which time I had quit scrounging the wiki, and had therefore not considered wiking it.

[Maruchan]

Nah I just like proving points. ^_^ When I have an opinion or a point, I stop at no ends to make it. proof of this would be a debate I got into about a Harry Potter thing
http://ihoggy.net/index.php?showtopic=62054
I'm TheGavin. If you can see, I worked hard to find details to prove my points. Even when I had nothing staked on it, like I do in the game. I have no life, therefore it gives me loads of time to scrounge for every little bit of information I need when I need it.

[Maruchan]

For the sake of accuracy, the second quote in Maru's #286 is Rei's, not mine.

Maru, your HP link is not relevant to this game. You also have to set up an account to view it, anyway. That would be a good way to bolster the number of that site's members, though, lol.

Completely off topic aside, but AHHHHH!!!! 2.5 days!!!!!!!!!!

He is right, I miss typed the name in my quote in #286, also sorry I didn't realize the site requires registration to view. it didn't used to. And idc about bolstering the # of views the site gets, they are a very specific Roleplay, based in another online website's game, and have a small but dedicated memberbase, they have thousands of "registered" users that have logged in once and never come back.


also. you're right. only 2 and a half days left, and unfortunately I'm a prime suspect.

[Maruchan]

If you'd like I can provide the entirety of my history from the end of this till today, but I never once looked up quicktopics.

also anything you mention I wikid after I sign up, was all wiki articles that were linked to somewhere on the site. I didn't search for them, I merely clicked links.

And the reason I didn't immediately ask because I thought it might make a scenario like:
-register-
-sub in-
"Hi everybody! I'm subbing in! Whats quicktopics?"
-everyone is wondering why my first thing I say involves the mafia's means of communication-

get the picture?

Karma was linked from Vel's page. Vel's page was linked from the Nebiw Queue topic. WIFOMproducts and WIFOMGUS were linked from OMGUS. OMGUS was linked from a previous post by you.

Commonly used Abbreviations is linked on the front page of the wiki, and I saw terms I didn't know what they meant, such as IIoA or IoA or OMGUS. FoS and LaL were linked from your posts, Moderator, I am honestly not sure how I found that page. You might know better than me where on the site links to the page Game Moderator?

As you are the IC, and your job is to help educate newbies, every link you post, I click it and read it, and often click other links on the page you linked to. I figure the more information I know, the better player I am.

So please, don't suspect me for clicking links that you yourself provided? dat makes me sad, like you don't expect anyone to actually read your Informative posts.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP, in fact I keep a permanent tab up of the Commonly Used Abbreviations, just in case I happen to see another I don't know.

[Maruchan]

Panacea, I Copy pasted my Browser History, Packbat was just smart and overly-scrutinized my history log.

as for the HPDHP2, omg eff you numberQ. I don't get to see it till NEXT Friday!!!!! I'm going on my dad's day off to a matinee with him to make it cheaper.

RQS:

What is everyone's opinions on Harry Potter? Books/Movies/Games/Any combination of the three

[hr]
PEdit: numberQ, I didn't want to keep havign to defend my vote on you, because I had already exhausted all my reasons for voting you. Its also abotu the time I came up with the SoftClaiming possibility. It is ALSO when MuffinMan pointed out the possibility that the mafia might NK, to make us all "think" we have a doc, when we might not. I was wanting to lynch you (all the previous posts say this btw) because I agreed with someone's comment stating they think you are either scum or a PR. My mind was looking at it like this "If he is PR, he dies tonight, as the mafia will be on him. If he dies tonight anyways, he will be dead before tomorrow. If he is scum, I'd rather get rid of him NOW before the night phase happens, so that if he is RoleCop, the mafia lose his ability. If he is a PR, he is dead either way, so why not kill him ourselves on the 50% chance he is scum." THAT was my basis for keeping my vote on you. Then I was told by MuffinMan that the mafia might NK, even if you are a PR, just to make us think we have a doc. Or, we might actually have a doc that is on you.

Because of the realization you MIGHT not die tonight if you were a PR, it became no longer in my mind beneficial to rid you on the 50% chance of scum. We could always kill you tomorrow if we decided you were scum, we couldn't get back our dead PR if you were PR.

[Maruchan]

OSHI, White Collar is on. be back in an hour. sorry, forgot tonight was Tuesday.

[Maruchan]

I want to keep a sharp eye on Maruchan - everything I said before about his play still goes - but I don't think it's a good idea to let Oversoul fly under the radar, either.

Sharp eye on me? How ya supposed to keep a sharp eye on a dead guy?

[Maruchan]

EBWOP< meant to hit preview not submit, I was going to add:

"With the number of votes on me, I think I'm at L2 or one away from it, so I have a feeling I'll be dead soon.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: just re-read, yup L2. 2 OMGUSes and yours Packbat.

[hr][/hr]
PEdit: MuffinMan was right about what? and L2 COULD be bad, if both maf hadn't voted yet and played their votes well.

But you're right, L2 isn't bad if the town are smart, especially since I think 1 maf is already on me.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: I EVEN HIT THE HR TAGS AND THEY DIDN'T WORK!! >:(

[Maruchan]

Thats really odd confusing and seems counter-productive.....

[Maruchan]

@Panacea: I knew you were talking about Harry Potter. Going to the midnight premiere, aw yeah!

Books are better!

OSHI, White Collar is on. be back in an hour. sorry, forgot tonight was Tuesday.

White Collar ftw

You're now my favorite mod jsyk

[Maruchan]

Hey, Vader2401! Any thoughts?

Also this.

Hey Vader, welcome to the flock. have you already read the rest of the game?

[Maruchan]

its supposed to have over an hour of nothing but the war.

gunna be EPIC

[Maruchan]

Hey, Vader2401! Any thoughts?

Also this.

Hey Vader, welcome to the flock. have you already read the rest of the game?

He just joined.

Maru, if you keep up you are going to sprout wings and fly away. O_o

I was looking through Maru's iso and some of the things he says... I don't know if it is just an act or what, but I think he is using his newb handicap to his advantage. Plus he is parroting other posters quite a lot.

I was just being curious.

I read through the entire game before I even sent robocoptor a PM asking to sub in. in the PM i sent him I told him even if I DIDN'T get the space, i planned on reading this game till the endgame, just to get a feel on forum mafia, as I did feel it played differently than chat mafia. I can copy the exact PMs if you like, I have no problem with it.

I realize not everyone is as devoid of a life as I am, but I figured I'd ask just to know.

Also, care to point out which things?

@HP shit, Australia already premiered the movie. I have Australian friends. I hate them so bad.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: just re-read, yup L2. 2 OMGUSes and yours Packbat.

I'm having a hard time reading this... Could you re-word it?

"Yup, I jsut re-read since the last post count. I am at L2 (2 away from being lynched). 2 OH MY GOD YOU SUCK votes, (they vote me for pushing on them first/voting them first) and yours Packbat."


better?

[Maruchan]

No probs. Here to help in any way I can. Anyways, I'm off to bed guys. Night peeps

[Maruchan]

This type of game is in a whole other league, so I'm not sure what experience the chat games bring.

That was my problem. I thought by playing the chat-based I'd have a decent amount of experience. but I've realized this is an entirely different experience.

[Maruchan]

Vader, could to set up an avatar when you can?

Oversoul, I laughed so hard at your ^^^ post.

OMG, I didn't notice it till I read this post, but...

MEET THE DOC!! LMFAO EPIC

[Maruchan]

Not nearly enough porn in Manruchan's history.

I caught this site after my daily porn fix, and ended my history report before the next day's

[Maruchan]

M'kay read up since my last ACTUAL game-related post.

Packbat, I think I learned to not sub into games. It may just be you had feelings on Val before the switch, but I think the subber gets put under the spotlight for awhile. Glad to know it wasn't just me.

Panacea, you mis-counted. I would only have been at L-2, due to the Val is Vader paradox. hard to wrap your head around I'm sure, after playing with Val for so long. And Packbat is right, your statement could just as easily been town or scum, but Vader's tossing out only the scum half option, makes me think either he was partially distracted, or he was trying to set up a basis for voting you on a later day, which again means either they aren't fully paying attention to the implication of his statement, or could be (like you all said I was doing. ) setting up for a later lynch as scum.

---

TESTING THE HORIZONTAL RULE AGAIN, CROSSES FINGERS

PEdit: Vader may be correct. Thats the rpoblem with re-reading all at once rather than reading throughout in-context.

On a side note, normally I would have gotten into the thread about 6-7 hours ago, and been able to keep up active discussion, and if you guys would like for me to try to be here during the mid-day (in America) times, I can. I just sit at the library from around noon till 4 (2.75 mile bike ride, trying to get the habit for the 2 mile bike ride to school once school starts back up), I can take my laptop with me though if you guys think that time is easier on you for discussions of any sort.

Double PEdit: yes plz, don't mix me up with someone else! X.X

[Maruchan]

Not nearly enough porn in Manruchan's history.

QFT. Only thing I took away from looking at that browser history.

Like I said, I found the site RIGHT after my daily porn lookage, and i didn't look at any on Thursday the 7th

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Deleted.

(all the #.jpgs were 4chan pics)

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: The blue waffle google searches were cuz a person on that HP site asked what blue waffle was, and I HAD to be the one to tell them.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP #2: I DO NOT SUGGEST CLICKING THE BLUE LINK IN MY POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Maruchan]

Don't post that crap in my thread Maruchan.

SORRY! they thought I was hidng stuff. I wanted to prove I wasn't hiding stuff. ^_^

[Maruchan]

is it just me or have smallpeoples' posts been rather hollow-seeming lately?

[Maruchan]

is it just me or have smallpeoples' posts been rather hollow-seeming lately?

Yes I do think they have been a little.

BTW what stuff might you have been hiding?

Off topic: I enjoy your Cave Johnson signature, Robocopter.

pron ofc

[Maruchan]

mkay for serious now, the second posting of my history was just for the lulz. I got a bunch of "not enough porn" so i posted a section of my history that involved the porn.

@numberq. I think one of them COULD be, but I am always open to being proved wrong, and have not seen too much scummyness from them yet.

[Maruchan]

MEET THE DOC!

! LMFAO EPIC

What? Is this a joke I'm not getting, or are you talking about roles again?

youtube "Meet the Medic"

@Vader and Maruchan: I kind of feel like there could be something going on between you, though after some iso's, I think what I'm getting is a connection that you both recognize, the fact that you're both coming to this game as your first non-chat ones. That being said, if we found ourselves in a Lylo situation, would you each be less inclined to lynch the other?

I wouldn't let our shared newbitude get in the way of lynching him if we got into a lylo situation and he was the scummier tell of the two, however by current views, I don't think me and vader will make it to a lylo situation together.

[Maruchan]

Code: Select all

[img]HTTP://www.yourimagehostsitehere.com/bunchofrandomnumbersandcrap.TYPEOFIMAGE[/img]

[Maruchan]

test post threads are always helpful. lets you know of spoilers and such are enabled on certain boards.

[Maruchan]

if*

[Maruchan]

TOo bad you're probably too old for me....

Le Sigh.

OH WELL

[Maruchan]

Pan, you're a bad example.



I'm the one on the left (obv), and know that isn't my girlfriend or anything, its my mom. Brother's wedding also, not mine. I'm just a groomsman

[Maruchan]

no* wow my english sucks today

[Maruchan]

is that good or bad?

[Maruchan]

lol. sorry. <3

[Maruchan]

@Packbat If you think I should go back and talk about things that already happened, I will. I thought people would get a little peeved if I did that because someone brought something back up earlier and NumberQ got a little testy. I assumed that once it was talked about, it was done, or maybe I got a wrong impression.

Totally off topic, danke schoen to Packbat for putting L-2 next to his vote. Helps me a lot there. Maybe we should all do it?

See that was my problem. I had just subbed in and had the same thought process, I will go back and talk about stuff that happened earlier, because from my PoV, I JUST learned of it. and since I wasn't here to throw in input when the original discussions were happening, I felt like I had to add in what i thought about the discussions.

unfortunately it backfired on me and made me scummy for awhile apparently.

[Maruchan]

Chat Mafia is the worse thing ever... how can people honestly enjoy that?

It was the first mafia I had even been introduced too.

and it isn't so bad as long as you have 1 person you are good friends with or know rather well playing with you. then chat mafia is much much more bearable.

[Maruchan]

Did you look at a game or are you getting this impression straight from me?

No, you actually play mafia.

I just played a couple of games and it is horrible. 30 second deadlines where you have to spell the person's name right exactly?

Themes that don't tell you the command to do your action?

People who blitz claim a power role and ask for PMs from other Power Roles?

Generally assholeishness. It is too much too handle and so fast paced it is ridiculous.

sorry about the triple post I didn't see this post when i replied to the other. /facedesk

Whatever chat-mafia you're playing sounds horrible. epicmafia (the one I play) has 10 minute days and 2 minute nights. its all contained in a Java console, so the only typing you have to do is to interact with the other roles. Everybody has their name across the left side of the page with the dead players listed underneath the alive players. during the day phase, and if you have night actions the night phase, on the right hand side of the screen is an interface allowing you to pick your votes by clicking. It really easy to control, the only difficult part about it is learning the strategy (as i was a newbie to mafia in general, to you you might already have a decent footing in the strategy to not have a problem). in most setups, you know the setup before you even join a game, and if not then its something called a "multiple setup" where it lists from 2 to 6 setups, and it is ONE of them, randomly picked. THe strategy is usually for a PR, or un-ccable role to claim day 1 (when maf kill happens before the day 1 phase), and lead the town. Sometimes when this role is un-cced they will have everybody whisper-claim to them, and then they will elad a lynch on CCs. Its really easy to play, the only difference from this is the intelligence level of the people you're playing with. People on the chat-based seem to be idiots with 1-track minds, and trolls who their entire purpose in life is to screw up games to make other people mad. (no offense to Vader, about 20% of the players I'd say are actual decent players)

But sorry for getting so off-topic. Back on topic

@Packbat, I wouldn't know, but to me it seems switching FoSes on a day 1 in this type of situation is not something that is rare. due to the fact we are all just starting with no information to lead on, it seems really likely you could go through a FoS on each and every player tbh. I don't think its a problem that you switch FoSes (and I'm NOT jsut saying this out of relief of you not FoSing me, I changed my FoSes too. originally reading I thought MuffinMan was uber scummy, then i realized its just his personality to be an aggressive player.

(completely off-topic sidenote: I miss laptop keyboards. i just realized I have 10X less typos on a laptop keyboard than on a regular keyboard.

[Maruchan]

Was Val here from the beginning, or is that replacement #3 for that position?

[Maruchan]

ah, it was Oman's spot that is at the 3-replacement mark.

[Maruchan]

@ your comment about #18, this also fits with your earlier "references" towards a certain buddying team, considering who originally lead the vote on oversoul.

Not saying I suspect MuffinMan (again) yet, as I didn't see returned buddying, just the one-way. And one-way buddying doesn't always mean the person being buddied is scum. From my experience (slim to none), scum might WIFOM a buddy so as to throw suspicion onto an already suspicious townie, or sometimes a not-so-smart townie will buddy with someone (either scum/town, they have no idea) just because they unconsciously agree with a lot of what the said person is saying.


And also your whole posts reinforces why I think that role position is scum, originally Val tunneled, them OMGUSed when i voted her (which doesn't mean scum, just is an interesting sidenote), then Vader (who I think I might have gotten addicted to my chat-based site, and might befriend on it) comes in and as you pointed out, uses a MuffinMan "scumtell" (in his opinion" to vote me, then realizes it wasn't me and drops the vote on me, and never even once mentions his thoughts on MuffinMan.


So I will continue to keep my vote where it has been for the past 4-5 pages, on the now-empty Val/Vader spot.

[Maruchan]

Thats like I think I mentioned earlier, that this entire day is pretty much random, all over the place FoSes, due to no confirmed roles or reports or anything.

[Maruchan]

I might do a study of D1 lynches over a span of like 100 or so games. or all games with the new setup.

Just to see if scum are lynched d1 more often

[Maruchan]

@Packbat, I THINK it means when the clock switches from July 19th, 11:59 PM to July 20th 12:00AM

[Maruchan]

he is right. A way to look at it is if a PR does NOT counterclaim, it sets up the scum to be "cleared" then they basically threw the game because nobody would believe their late claim the next day.

The only question to ever ask is "Is it worth it to out the PR". once someone has claimed, it is always smart to claim, UNLESS, say the un-cced cop gets a guilty on me, if I claim doc, if there really is a doc, that doc should not say anything.

[Maruchan]

DAT HAMMER

[Maruchan]

Okay, first question we have to ask after seeing the night-kill: why zMuffinMan?

In my estimation, there are only three factors the Mafia will use for picking who to kill each night: either they will pick someone who is a confirmed town player (e.g. a claimed PR), they will pick someone who is pushing for their own lynch, or they will pick a WIFOM candidate - someone whose death will deceive the town.

WIFOM NKs are uncommon on Night 1, in my experience.

zMuffinMan was not confirmed town - he was not even universally

considered

town.

Therefore:

So, yeah. Love when games stall.

Still thinking Oversoul>vader>small as my suspects.

That's mostly due to town reads of varying strength on every other player.

VOTE: Oversoul

So you're saying you think MuffinMan was killed for option two? Not trying to be accusatory here, I am purely curious as to your reasoning, so as to help me find my suspects, but how did you go about ruling out option 3? That it was a WIFOM, and MuffinMan was killed directly BECAUSE his prime suspects for mafia were the town, and therefore by killing him and pushing for option 2, the mafia could get a town lynched. That is still a very real possibility I think, unless you see something I didn't that disproves it.

Be my guest to point out something I missed, coming in late, I may have missed a small factor that you may have caught in why you are reasoning that he is dead due to #2. I would be glad to rule out either option Two OR Three, as that helps narrow down our suspect list, either way.

But as I have not ruled out either of those options yet, I think I will keep my vote off of everyone for now, so as to stop any bad-vibes towards myself by a wrongly placed vote.

1) Um. Obviously I'll not be pursuing the beforementioned Vader-MuffinMan scumteam. :/

I seriously laughed allowed at this after I fully comprehended it. I immediately understood why you wouldn't suspect MuffinMan but it took me a few seconds to remember we lynch Vader 2 days ago. Then I was like in my mind "LOL he suspected the first two dead townies as a scum team". Thats easy to do as town, but I might keep an eye out on you for a bit, because you'd think most townies suspect at least 1 of the mafia and are correct in their suspicions.

2) Packbat is possibly correct. To that end as well, we are all here because we did not pose a direct threat to scum. Whether because we didn't sniff them out at all, or because we did but not enough to spook them. Presumably, MuffinMan did.

Small correction, We are all here because we didn't pose a direct threat to scum,

OR

are scum. Just a small little addition I felt needed to be added.

I'll say more on that later.

I look forward to learning what you are implying here.

For now I suppose I'll just FOS Maru and refer back to my post with my vote on him for details.

Anyway, Maruchan has been bumped past Oversoul as "most suspect." Bad logic, panicky defense, and the only statements you haven't recycled from someone else are either extremely general and vague or aren't very good statements.

In #192, you unvoted me because you said you didn't want to defend your vote, though you still thought of me as scummy. Nice way to cover all your bases there. What's the point of unvoting me if you thought I was scummy? With your vote, there were only 2 votes on me. That's nowhere near a lynch (as I've learned in this topic). If you truly thought I was scummy, wouldn't keeping your vote on me and all the potential pressure a vote brings be for the better?

My other reasons have already been said by other people (though I think the QT thing isn't telling either way. he's either scum trying to fool us or town curious about it, and all this time stamp analyzing, aside with being against the rules, just seems useless to me).

Can you point out the Bad Logic and Panicky Defenses for me please? Not saying they aren't there, they very well could be, but I want to see what others classify as bad logic and panicky defenses, so I know to avoid them for future games as either town or scum. After all, every game is a learning experience, and we can all teach each other things.

@your comment about most of my statements being recycled, I personally agree with you that originally many of my statements were recycled, but that has to do with the fact I wasn't here for the majority of Day 1, so I was not there to have a chance to say them when I originally thought them, when whatever discussion they concerned was originally happening. Anything that I ever re-said that was already said by someone else, its because I took what you guys took as a week's worth of discussion, all in 1 hour. So to me, it all seemed like it "just happened". I know for future reference when I sub-in to a game, to not go through a narrative on what I am thinking on the so-far of the game. Apparently most of you didn't like that. As I said, every game is a learning experience, and we can all teach each other. Lesson Learned: when subbing in, don't voice opinions on past events of the game, unless asked.

@ your comment about my unvoting you when I still thought of you as scummy, I then went on to LATER explain why. Originally my vote on you was because I thought you were either A: A TOWN power role, or B: Scum. In my original frame of mind I thought that lynching you on the 50/50 chance was helpful to town, due to the maf would kill you at night if we all thought you were a power role, or you'd survive to the next day if you WERE maf. You can go back and Iso my posts to see where I originally went over this, you may have missed it because as you said, you've been busy lately. I UNVOTED you when I was told that if you were a town PR, the mafia might no kill, to make us think we had a doc, or there might REALLY be a doc on you. That made me realize we should not kill you on the 50/50 you were maf/town PR. I still believe you are 50/50 maf or town PR, due to not having even tried to deny it yet, but the lack of denial makes me lead towards thinking you are a doctor or jailkeeper, due to the fact that if you were maf you'd deny it. Or, as I stated earlier, you may be a town softclaiming as doc so as to protect the real one. Either way, I'm at 60/40 on you right now. I think you're more likely town PR or townie protecting a town PR than a mafia.

My other reasons have already been said by other people

Which reasons are these exactly, just so I know exactly what it is you find scummy about me, this refers back to the "Every game is a learnign experience" point.

[Maruchan]

...wow, Oversoul/Maruchan scumteam, anyone?

Maruchan: I can't rule out a WIFOM kill, obviously, but I think it's kinda uncommon early in the game because there are so many players and so many things to look at. Newbie scum in particular are inclined to aim at people going after themselves - I know I was.

Hey now don't stick me with him! he and you are two of my top suspects, you for immediately jumping on option #2, if you WERE scum, you could blow off you're telling us about the WIFOMability if the night kill as being a good IC, and then be trying to push that it isn't a WIFOM. Him being a prime suspect, in case it is NOT a WIFOM kill, it makes him the prime suspect.

So the 3 people I plan to keep an eye on are:
Packbat
Oversoul
Panacea

Smallpeopels and oman have just been SO quiet lately I don't know anything one way or the other. Oman I think would be smarter than to lurk as scum, so I think he quietness MIGHT bean he is a bored blue and his other games are playing out more interestingly for him, being scum or PRs in them and whatnot. Smallpeoples his lack of input could be scum or could be bored blue either way.

NumberQ I am leaning on towards town and I have no clue honestly. I think he did NOT die, just because the scum were hoping me and oversoul would push the argument "he was scum or PR and didn't die n1, so probably scum". I think his LIFE is a WIFOM, if that makes sense?Or maybe scum were preparing for every eventuality, and thinking town had a doc did not target NumberQ, just so the town wouldn't get a save. Therefore I am leaning on him being town 50/50 on whether he is a PR or just a softclaiming townie.


&One other thing at Packbat, if you are pushing for Me being part of the scum team, while also pushing that the kill was a "poses a threat to scum" rather than a WIFOM, those are contradictory claims. If you read my past posts, I hope you'd be willing to agree with me that I have the experience to tell my scum partner to not kill MuffinMan, as that incriminates said scum partner.


PEdit: @Oversoul, I'm not liking that OMGUS much. OMGUSes are used by idiot townies and desperate scum. And bro, I REALLY don't think you're an idiot

[Maruchan]

Hey, lurker Panacea

I probably refresh this page 12 hours out of the day more often that anyone else does during thsoe twelve hours, and I have seen just about every player in here lurk once or twice at least.

sometimes when the argument isn't on a person, that person tends to stay out of it until they jump in to point out how one side is being scummy, or until someone points a finger at them.

So Panacea could be just waiting till he finds something he wants to comment on, since most of the recent long posts haven't involved him, or he could be scum staying out of the fray to make sure he doesn't set off anymore scumdars.

Either way, I've caught just about everyone lurking at one point or another, so I have decided to quit using the Active Readers at the bottom as a scumtell.

[Maruchan]

On an off note, has MuffinMan been in yet to see that he is dead? and does he plan on leaving us a farewell and good luck post?

[Maruchan]

I thought they could say goodbye and all, just not say anything game related

[Maruchan]

So Panacea could be just waiting till

he

she

finds something

he

she

wants to comment on, since most of the recent long posts haven't involved

him

her

, or

he

she

could be scum staying out of the fray to make sure

he

she

doesn't set off anymore scumdars.

SORRY! I'M REALLY BAD AT THAT!!!!!

/facedesk

[Maruchan]

Here's the sequence of events I'm seeing.

1. A nightkill on an odd target.

2. A very strange post arguing against drawing any conclusions from the nightkill.

3. Two players expressing suspicion of each other,

not voting

each other ... and then chatting merrily and amiably without any sign of their mutual suspicion.

I need to go back and check against D1, but the N1/D2 behavior makes a whole lot of sense if you hypothesize that scumteam.

PreviewEdit: Panacea has pointed out one thing I found particularly strange in the very strange post - the focus on the poster's own appearance.

Well I would rather be slow and cautious to vote than quick and hasty.

quick and hasty causes reactions to votes.

As to your number 2, of course I am saying to not draw conclusions, if you are implying, once again, that it is me and oversoul if it quells your fears VOTE: Oversoul. I think ONE of you three (you)you over and panacea) is scum, I was being hesitant to vote until I decided which of you was scum.

Also once again, I reiterate, I take you implying it being me and oversoul as a scum team, and MuffinMan dying, AND me defending oversoul after said chain of events. I find this an insult to my intelligence. First you're implying I was stupid enough to let my partner talk me into killing the most obvious person for him to want dead if he was scum. Second off you are implying I am even stupid enough to buddy him during the daylight hours. Now if I was a complete novice, I wouldn't take these assumptions so hurtfully, but the fact that 500+ chat-based games should give me the experience to decide upon good night kills, and the essence of WIFOMing, bussing, and not-buddying makes those rather hurtful to my self-esteem.

@Panacea, your asking numberQ to claim before you wouldn't mind a lynch on him, I see as a bit pointless. if he DOES claim PR then we have to debate over his being alive being because he is lying or because it was a WIFOM, and if he claims blue. that gets us no closer to deciding if it is a lie or not either.

I would rather NOT have the last-alive power role claim, and not even ask someone to claim, because that could in turn force out our last alive power role. And in this situation, we are praying we have one more power role, and if so relying on said power role helping us out.


@Packbat, your #2, of course I am arguing against drawing IMMEDIATE conclusions from a kill. I would rather we all post what conclusions we think are POSSIBLE from the kill, decide who each of those conclusions throws into the limelight, and then start ruling off conclusions one by one, as a group, till we decide on the 2-3 most likely conclusions. Rather than the first post after the kill immediately assume that the obvious kill, was an obvious kill.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP, meant to add this to the end of my post

UNVOTE: Oversoul I really only said that to prove a point. if he still wants to push for an oversoul/maruchan scumteam after my post I will gladly vote oversoul and not drop my vote until the lynch, but I would RATHER make an EDUCATED vote than a blind stab in the dark vote.

[Maruchan]

@Panacea, your asking numberQ to claim before you wouldn't mind a lynch on him, I see as a bit pointless. if he DOES claim PR then we have to debate over his being alive being because he is lying or because it was a WIFOM, and if he claims blue. that gets us no closer to deciding if it is a lie or not either.

... No. If he does claim PR and he's scum, the other real remaining PR calls him on it and we have confirmed scum. If he claims PR and no one counterclaims, we don't lynch him and spend the rest of the Day with a confirmed Townie and narrow down our suspect pool, 2 of 6 instead of 2 of 7. If he claims Vanilla, we lynch him regardless. Right now, he and Maruchan are my top suspects, so, again, not overly opposed to a NumberQ lynch at the moment because I don't see him not claiming PR. However, given my record so far this game, I'll not be voting him just yet.

If he claims PR, and nobody CCs, he is not clear.

we could ALL be vanillas left, with no PRs.

[Maruchan]

Also,

one vote

does not force the town to lynch hastily.

No you're right one vote doesn't cause us to lynch hastily.

but if EVERYONE votes that one vote, yes that causes the town to lynch hastily. So I will be one of the group to hold on to their vote, while you and Oversoul can be part of the group that tosses out their vote.

and @ your my comment being the textbook definition of WIFOM, usually WIFOM works better when somebody ELSE suggests it, me pushing for my own WIFOM, makes for a shitty WIFOM. When you have to suggest to the town how your own plot works, and hope they believe you, you need to learn to WIFOM better. The best WIFOMs are the ones where another smart townie points out what the scum wants pointed out. And no amount of WIFOM would cause me to night kill the most obvious night kill of my partner and then buddy said partner all day. Trust me, I KNOW I am not that good at deciet.

Anyways Since Oversoul kinda died out of the discussion after his OMGUS & "when I die town lynch Packbat", I am leaning towards either a Packbat or Oversoul lynch right now. Panacea is still getting on my nerves a little with heavily analyzing everything I say when I say exactly what I mean, but thats townie, so My eye is off of her, for now. Tomrrow we'll have to see again.

&Also, if we lynch wrong tonight, that makes tomorrow LyLo correct?

[Maruchan]

Panacea, my point exatly. There might not BE another PR. We have a 25% chance that we have another vanilla

[Maruchan]

yes.. and we Killed the cop, so we could have a vanilla townie....

[Maruchan]

Oh!! OH!! I was definitely reading that all wrong! Sorry. Maruchan, you were right, I was wrong. Sorry!

lol its completely all right. dw about it.

On another hand, have we lost smallpeoples and oman?

[Maruchan]

Panacea I mentioned I was keeping an eye on Panacea over others because of the fact that not even ONE of her FoS's was scum. Usually you'd think town would suspect at least ONE true scum member. the only people guaranteed to not FoS a scum member, is other scum. Since I have no read on smallpeoples or oman, That makes Panacea scummier thaneither of the, and since I have decided that I think you're a greater chance at being town than scum, that places her over you.

On that note, you al lseem to think I am trying to defend oversoul, which in no case am I trying to do. I am trying to defend myself by saying if I WAS with oversoul, I wouldn't do what happened. On that note, in order to cement this in your minds I feel I have to VOTE: Oversoul. Maybe then you guys will stop accusing me of being a scumteam with him. He and Packbat are my two main suspects at this point, with Panacea being the only other person I can see as being the partner. numberQ I think is just a townie with his vote placed badly. Smallpeoples and Oman I have no freaking clue.

[Maruchan]

Oh yeah, [n]L-2[/b]

[Maruchan]

WOW FAIL.

L-2

*

[Maruchan]

Oversoul I would not want to lynch until we hear from Oman and small. Him and Maru are the two most scummy people right now imo, and him far less than Maru. But I still feel uncomfortable about Oman's and small's absence.

SO me and him are scummy, in most of the towns eyes because of the night kill+my defending him, and yet somehow I am more scummy than him?...


Can you explain how you got that?

[Maruchan]

you, packbat, and numberq, in all your eyes (or so it seems), he is scummiest do to the nightkill, and I am scummy for trying to show that it isn't necessarily him right off the bat.

by most of the towns eyes, I was just saying that the majoirty of the players left.


yea yea you can all take it and spin my words around and twist them and convolute them to make it seem like I said "me and oversoual are scum and everybody who thinks we are is town". but thats not what I Was saying. I was typing in a hurry and didn't feel like second guessing every single word I typed to make sure someone didn't want to pick at it and determine it meant I am scum.

[Maruchan]

you, packbat, and numberq, in all your eyes (or so it seems), he is scummiest do to the nightkill, and I am scummy for trying to show that it isn't necessarily him right off the bat.

I never said I wanted an Oversoul lynch. But now that you've mentioned it, would you please answer the question posed to you in #500?

Right this second? I don't want ANYBODY lynched, How do I feel about an oversoul lynch? I say its a bad idea to want to lynch anyone without first discussing as a town what the night action implicates, and what it could implicate, and reasons why we think certain implications are unlikely.

I'd prefer for us all to PRETEND there are no scum, and learn to work together for 5 minutes bettering the town as a whole, rather than spend all of our time discussing who we DON'T trust. Seems pointless to me.

So to directly answer the question, in the simplest terms: I am opposed. NOT because I am opposed to an Oversoul lynch in particular, I am just opposed to any lynch until we can all learn to discuss without being at each others throats. Once we discuss, and we analyze and we determine that Oversoul being scum is one of the most likely implications from last night, I would be all for an Oversoul lynch though.

I was typing in a hurry and didn't feel like second guessing every single word I typed to make sure someone didn't want to pick at it and determine it meant I am scum.

I'm doing what my role PM says to do...

Yes I know, and I am sorry for jumping at your throat, I was just kinda POed because of rl things and I was sick of being treated like I am talking to a panel of 6 shrinks whos job it was to psychoanalyze my every word.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: Lets face it, with that level of spotlight, everybody is going to say things that look "scummy", everybody is going to do things that look self-interested, why? Because we are human. And Humans aren't perfect.

[Maruchan]

Maruchan, I think you have daddy issues.

(OMG, I'm TOTALLY kidding.)

But seriously, I think you're in the midst of a culture-shock... Games on this site don't generally work if you try to do the optimistic "let's all work together!" thing.In theory it sounds nice, but you have to remember that you have two teams here, and one of those teams only wins by pretending to be the members of the other. I'll certainly be willing to hear you out, though, if you have some chat-mafia tactics to bring over that would actually work the optimistic way.

They win by pretending to be the other is what you said, therefore they have to at least PRETEND to help us discuss things. So I don't see a down-side to working together for 5 minutes and then going back to being at each others throats.


This isn't a Chat-Mafia tactic either. This is a Maruchan Has An Epiphany That Nobody Ever Listens To Tactic. Even when I play as scum in chat-mafia, I actually try to HELP town. I try to TEACH strategy, by helping show the strategy, and such, rather than just play for myself. Its more fun that way. Whenever I say I think the TOWN should do something, I actually legitly mean it, no matter which side I am on. IDC if you all think this is me playing another elaborate WIFOM, lemme tell you, NOBODY is good enough to have every statement they ever make be a WIFOM and get away with it, and I am definitely not stupid enough to try.


I just really think its better for us ALL (scum or town) to spend a little bit of time discussing the events of the night and what they IMPLY, rather than jumping down everybody's throat. Packbat agreed with me whether subconsciously or not, he did. His first post after the day ended was to try to point out the three reasons someone might have been killed. I liked that. Packbat got my hopes up that MAYBE day 2 in a forum-based game wasn't so random as day 1. Maybe they actually worked towards deciphering the events of night 1 rather than ignoring them completely, and returning to the same discussions as the day before.

[Maruchan]

Right this second? I don't want ANYBODY lynched, How do I feel about an oversoul lynch? I say its a bad idea to want to lynch anyone without first discussing as a town what the night action implicates, and what it could implicate, and reasons why we think certain implications are unlikely.

I'd prefer for us all to PRETEND there are no scum, and learn to work together for 5 minutes bettering the town as a whole, rather than spend all of our time discussing who we DON'T trust. Seems pointless to me.

So to directly answer the question, in the simplest terms: I am opposed. NOT because I am opposed to an Oversoul lynch in particular, I am just opposed to any lynch until we can all learn to discuss without being at each others throats. Once we discuss, and we analyze and we determine that Oversoul being scum is one of the most likely implications from last night, I would be all for an Oversoul lynch though.

Okay. Then how do you feel about an Oversoul lynch

based on the argument that he was MuffinMan's main suspect"

I think that sounds like a good reason for a non-oversoul mafia to kill him, to make us all THINK that he is mafia. Isn't that the definition of a WIFOM? And since out IC generously provided a link to the WIFOM page early on in the game, most of the people should have learned what WIFOMing is before the night phase started.

[Maruchan]

idk. by discussing why we think MuffinMan was killed. like Packbat did originally. As he said, Muffinman wasn't widely considered town, so he didn't die for the first reason, but I don't want to be so sure to eliminate the third reason, I also want to point out a fourth reason, the scum where trying to play 2-moves ahead and think "If A was doc, he'd be on so and so, if B was doc, he'd be on so and so" and so MuffinMan's death may be completely random. He may hvae just died because the scum felt he was the least likely to be protected.

so so far theories we have come up with, whether likely or not:
1. MuffinMan was widely though of as town, and was being listened to.
2. MuffinMan was pushing on one of the scum.
3. MuffinMan was pushing on someone who was town, and scum wanted to incriminate said town.
4. MuffinMan was least-likely to be protected.

Anybody else have an other ideas?

[Maruchan]

EBWOP, I meant to add "(WIFOM)" after the end of option 3. as that is the way a night WIFOM kill works.

[Maruchan]

I'm on Oversoul still robocopter. ♥

[Maruchan]

Opinion: Last night was a WIFOM Kill. It was either scum (including Oversoul) killing Oversoul's main aggressor and thinking they could say it was too obvious, or scum (excluding Oversoul) killing MuffinMan in hopes of framing MuffinMan's main suspect. I personally am leaning toward the latter.

Opinion: Packbat is Town setting Townie-Traps with his Oversoul vote (remember the underestimating scum or clever town comment? I didn't want to give it away.)

Opinion: Packbat's townie trap busted Smallpeoples.

VOTE: Smallpeoples

I agree with at least the first part, which is why I have been so adamant to this sheeping on Oversoul. Thank you for someone finally seeing my point.

As for the second comment, I didn't get it the first time I read it through, but then I did after re-reading it. You think Packbat was using it as a trap to try to get someone to sheep him without backing up his vote with reasoning. Like a scum would do if he was trying to jump an opportunistic bandwaggon. Got it. Now I get your comment.

On another note, Me, Oversoual, and Smallpeoples are all at L-2 with only Oman yet to vote.
On this matter, UNVOTE: Oversoul

I'm not to sure I want to immediately jump the smallpeoples bandwaggon, because Packbat seemed to jump it a bit to quickly...

@Packbat, would you mind linking me to the list you mentioned by MuffinMan on who he suspected? I don't remember smallpeoples being one of MuffinMan's suspicions, I just remember the initial push on YOU (hmmmm. adds in to my above mentioned theory), then him changing his push to oversoul after their confrontation.

[Maruchan]

Also, I will not re-vote until I hear at least one word from oman, saying he is still alive and paying attention.

[Maruchan]

@Packbat, would you mind linking me to the list you mentioned by MuffinMan on who he suspected? I don't remember smallpeoples being one of MuffinMan's suspicions, I just remember the initial push on YOU (hmmmm. adds in to my above mentioned theory), then him changing his push to oversoul after their confrontation.

#445

So, yeah. Love when games stall.

Still thinking Oversoul>vader>small as my suspects.

That's mostly due to town reads of varying strength on every other player.

Check his ISO, too - he spends a moderate amount of time interrogating smallpeoples343 about actions the latter takes, notably the "numberQ is PR or scum" bit.

I guess you're right, smallpeoples might've had a bit to gain fro ma MuffinMan death. I didn't even notice that. O.o. So you think MuffinMan was a mixture of a death because he suspected the scum/WIFOM because he suspected another townie.

[Maruchan]

Oman asked to transfer out?

[Maruchan]

Also, I'm not really suspecting Panacea anymore. She could have easily hammered on Oversoul, then said she thought she was putting him at L1, and aroused only minimal suspicion. I find her not doing that to be rather townie

PEdit: Bye Oman!! We'll miss you

[Maruchan]

Hey Stuntman! welcome to the team!

[Maruchan]

Short Summary: everyone does some random RVS and RQS. muffinman turns his RVS into a lead actual vote. leads on that for awhile until someone else gets on his nerves, jumps to heated discussions with oversoul, then voted oversoul. two players swap out, I swap in, give my views on the game so far immediately become scum suspect #1 by most of the players, vader swaps in and i no longer become scum #1, he does. he gets lynched after asking to swap out. He flips cop. Night phase comes, takes longer than usual. Seeing as nobody swapped out, I suspect that either a town PR or the scum had to ask permission to do something. Since town PRs have nobody else they fully trust and can communicate with, I see no reason for them asking permission to do something, therefore I suspect the scum were up to some plan, and either got allowed or not allowed

OR, since oman just swapped out AFTER the night phase, maybe the problem was oman is a town PR or scum, and he was trying to find oman a replacement. JUST OUTTING THE POSSIBILITIES
anyways back2summaray: muffin man dies, game starts back up later than it should've. Packbat gives three possibiliteis as to why night kills commonly are killed who they are, I give a fourth. Packbat rules out one of his three possibilities and says he doesn't think the third is what happened and therefore leads a vote based on his second possibility. I point out the flaw in this and say we should consider ALL possible reasons before making hasty decisions, this is seen as defending oversoul. I then become a prime suspect again in everyone's eyes thinking its me and oversoul. smallpeopels hops the bandwaggon with very few words. Packbat and Panacea see this as scummy and off their bandwaggon on oversoul for a smallpeoples lynch. Oversoul jumps on me for having jumped on him, his second OMGUS of the day. You came in, I summarized the game, you read it, the end.

[Maruchan]

quick question

dissociative-identity-disorder

wutdis?

[Maruchan]

nono, I was protesting to AUTOMATICALLY assume it was true. I even said if we all discussed the sscenarios and decided a MuffinMan was threatening scum and therefore oversoul killed him, I would gladly agree to lynching him.

I just did NOT agree with you're immediately ruling out a WIFOM on the basis "it usually doesn't happen day 1". Isn't that in and of itself a WIFOM? If you, as scum, were to WIFOM, then say you don't THINK it is a WIFOM, because WIFOMs rarely happen n1.

And you being the IC of the game, some of the newbies would just follow your logic like it was the ten commandments. Perfect WIFOM.


not stating thats what HAPPENED, just like I said earlier, stating possibilities. I would rather make an informed lynch than an uninformed lynch to stick us at lylo tomorrow.

[Maruchan]

Good point on that last bit. SO it makes a MuffinMan death even more odd, because he would have made a good miss-lynch today. I didn't realize this, having never played forum-mafia before, but you're right I guess. The Hammer Driver on a townie could very well get a good deal of suspicion. especially if he had lead inquisitions on two (possible) townies the day before.

So why would scum kill MuffinMan if he was such a good ML candidate for today? Maybe they didn't like his play-style and felt it could threaten them later on..?

[Maruchan]

Packbat, I read that wiki. Holy crap that game sounds confusing.

[Maruchan]

is there a website for this Nomic game? if so can someone send me a link?

Also numberq quit tunneling me. js. we all know your feelings for me. they haven't changed since the second I set foot in this game.

[Maruchan]

jus sayin

[Maruchan]

im starting to see your guys' argument for his scummieness, but as I said I won't re-vote until Oman talks, and since he replaced out, I won't re-vote till I hear something from his replacement to avoid accidental hammers or maf hammers

[Maruchan]

smallpeoples, how would you feel about a pac/pan lynch?

i know its way way way way too early, beleive me i know, but i have hunch, dont you smallpeoples? they are persecuting you together and you know your town. so dont you think they are scum?
VOTE: Packbat

No offense, but I REALLY find the tone of this line to just come across me wrong. Like really wrong.

I thought Packbat as a possible scum, and am still considering it.

Panacea though I don't think is scum. she could have EASILY flipped up an oversoul hammer, claimed she thought she was sticking him at L1, NOT hammering, and gone on to the lylo tomorrow with only a minimal bit of suspicion. The fact that that hammer didn't happen just shows too townie for me.

NumberQ I am thinking has a likelier chance of being town than scum, but I am not fully swayed in either direction on him.

Oversoul is one of my scum-liklies, due to the night actions. He could be town though, to much of his D2 play was OMGUS and when I die lynch so and so for my liking.

Stuntman could swing either way also, but right now I am suspecting more scum than town off of him.

Smallpeoples needs to fucking play more, or we need to kill him anyways if he is town or scum, due to the fact the scum will keep him alive for the easy sheep vote if he's town.

so right now my list from most scummy possibility imho to least:

Packbat>Oversoul>Stuntman>Smallpeoples>NumberQ>Panacea

[Maruchan]

Small's suspicion lies in whoever has voted him the most often I am sure. -.-

[Maruchan]

I am to lazy to read through an entire past game, how does that "say" Packbat is town exactly?

[Maruchan]

Completely off topic, lookign at the QUeue Listing for our game,

Game 1122:
Setup: 2of4
Moderator: Robocopter87
Current Update: Day 2
Oversoul
smallpeoples343
Stuntman (replaced Oman, Robin The Boy Wonder, Scholsey)
numberQ
Maruchan (replaced Ellf)
Panacea
Packbat 1
Vader2401 (replaced ValiliaRei), Cop, lynched Day 1
zMuffinMan, Townie, killed Night 1

whatever role Stuntman has, it REALLY isn't wanted AT ALL!!! lololol

[Maruchan]

well?

Give me time for my beauty sleep! I just woke up an hour or so ago.

I will go through all the back to beginning of day one and make a quote dump for you of al lthe scummy reads I had on him. there were 1 or 2 d1, but not many, but moreso today.

Aldo I see him as scum, due to the lack of scum reads from anyone else. He has the most (albeit still really small) scum things out of anyone still alive that I have seen so far.

[Maruchan]

In Post #530, Packbat completely changes his D2 line of attack, after pushing for the majority of the first part of the day on someone else, all because another townie-player points out easy to defend reasons why this new person is scum.

He has completely changed his vote to someone opposite of what he said in Post #516 Where he said he thought me and Oversoul are a scumteam, he hasn't stated he no longer believes that yet now he is leading on Smallpeoples, not one of the previously mentioned suspects of his scumteam.

In Post #461 He states three possibilities for a night kill, then eliminates one which by a general consensus of the death, we all agreed was an unlikely reason for his death, but then goes on to eliminate a second purely on a hypothetical "WIFOMs n1 are uncommon", which honestly if it WERE a WIFOM, that would be a perfect double-WIFOM. Picture scum as thinking this: "WIFOMs n1 are uncommon, so we should totally do a WIFOM kill, just because NOBODY WOULD SEE IT COMING" Based off of this post, I know if I ever play with Packbat again, and I am scum, I am 100% more likely now to do a WIFOM n1 kill than a non-WIFOM n1 kill.


I wouldn't be opposed to a Packbat&Panacea scumteam, although I really think Panacea is town. Packbat has been listening to Panacea rather a lot, but he of course could be like me and just agree that she is likely-town, and so takes her posts at face value.

PEDIT, speak of the devil Packbat, as I stated earlier I didn't want to vote until I had heard from Oman or his replacement. I was waiting. Stuntman has finally come in and said a little, so now I am more comfortable with voting, although I WOULD prefer to wait until he finishes catching up on D2, and then get some input from him.

I would also like from everyone a list of how they place everyone on a scale from scum-town like I did a few posts ago. I find these are very helpful, and will explain WHY I find them helpful after I see one from everyone.

[Maruchan]

and yet you WERE feeling it for the past 4 pages, until you voted smallpeoples? What super-town action did he do to sway your reads on him?

No idea what lexicographical ambiguity means, but to answer your question, easy reasons for the people voting him to use to defend their vote on him is what I meant by easy to defend reasons.

The reasons She gave were easy to get behind as a lynch reason.

[Maruchan]

based on his lack of playing, and the opportunistic looking badwaggon?

[Maruchan]

Completely off-topic, I got in the early registration Day 1 for pottermore, but I am still waiting on my email. Everyone cross your fingers that I get it soon!

[Maruchan]

UGH!!!! I've been working on this post for an hour through a pounding headache, and my computer just restarted for an update!!!!!! I'll try again...

god I hate computers. Sorry for your loss!

[Maruchan]

oversoul too, I think its been awhile since his last hasn't it? And he has been prodded. has that prod come to the point of needing to be replaced yet?

[Maruchan]

Like I said since a few days ago, I am all for lynching smallpeopls, because if he is scum, great, if he is town, we need to get rid of him as the scum will keep him alive for the easy sheep vote.

If we want to wait for a replacement, we can do that if you guys would rather, but What seems to be the general trend, is when someone replaces in, they seem to jump to the top of the majority of the players' scum lists. First I replaced in and I was a prime suspect (still am for some), then Vader replaces in, and everybody changes to HIM being a prime suspect, then stuntman replaces in and now HE is being looked at as possible scum by quite a few players, I just don't want to see a pattern #4.

[Maruchan]

TOWN DO NOT QUICKHAMMER. LET SCUM DO THAT.

By your earlier posts, the two people you suspect of being scum are already on smallpeoples, so how would they hammer?

[Maruchan]

M'kay finished re-reading everything now, and lol @ the -switches to smallpeoples- TOWN DON'T HAMMER ploy you played. me and oversoul had JUST said we were about to vote smallpeoples, so you switched right before we did. I was just waiting to vote until I got a scum-town scale from everyone. I didn't want to vote until that, or until we had more input from you. now we have more input from you and you just completely put yourself in the biggest scum limelight I've seen yet.

[Maruchan]

You know what, fuck it, you all already think I am scummy anyways, and as Panacea pointed out, his "foolproof plan" isn't exactly foolproof, and I had ALREADY SAID I WANTED TO VOTE SMALLPEOPLES, due to his inactivity, so i don't really give a fuck if this makes stuntman think I am scum

VOTE: Smallpeoples

And thats end-day everybody

[Maruchan]

sorry Packbat. I had told everyone I planned on voting him after I got more input from stuntman, so its not like this is an opportunistic hammer, I did exactly what I said I would do.

stuntman just decided to turn my vote into a hammer.

[Maruchan]

I'll be here in the morning unless I'm not.

It took me awhile to understand this!

[Maruchan]

HI ELLF I SEE YOU READING UP IN HERE!!!! HOPE YOU ARE PROUD OF HOW I'VE HANDLED YOUR SPOT!!!!!

PEdit: Packbat, I already knew this but I am sure some others didn't, so it is good that you warned us, but also if the SCUM didn't know this, you've just told them too.

[Maruchan]

i was cheated too. my whole "gambit", the "ploy", was all to get more stuff out of smallpeople so i could use that information against him and others.

He has already told us he doesn't care about this game, and we already know he is putting minimal effort into it. He told us so, if you want to see more from smallpeoples, you're fucked even if I hadn't voted.

Don't try to say your vote was a ploy, first your scum pointing was ploy now your voting and putting it at L1 is a ploy?


maybe this whole "everything I do is a ploy" is just a ploy OMG DUDE NO WAY YOURE REALLY GOD ARENT YOU?!?!?!



nobutfersrs, i never said I don't give a fuck. I said I don't give a fuck what YOU think of me, because you're whole ploy-this ploy-that nothing is true everything is permitted (cwutididther?) bullshit you've got going on, sucks. LEarn to play team-oriented games, AS A TEAM. not trying to manipulate the entire game to your liking. kaithnx.


If you don't want someone lynched, next time, don't put them at L1 when TWO OTHER PLAYERS have already stated they plan on voting him. kay? kay.

/bitchmode

[Maruchan]

your avatar just made me lol. I'm watching all 8 seasons of Charmed in order, and I JUST finished the episode where they go back to the Summer of Love in 1967 and their grandparents own a "Rainbow Bus"

JUS SAYIN


Anyways lookin forward to the flavor, its been interesting so far.

[Maruchan]

I was thinking NumberQ looked town. if smallpeoples flips town, numberq will look the same in my mind, if he flips scum, numberq might move back into the territory of being neutral, possible scum. Because He was the only person (besides small) who didn't either vote small, or agree on small's lynch (oversoul).

[Maruchan]

No.

There is no way he could WIFOM that. he had no way of guaranteeing that only ONE of the town would not vote him. So either it is what it appears to be, or it is nothing at all. No WIFOM possibility

at least thats how it looks to me?

[Maruchan]

or did I completely just miss-read your post?

[Maruchan]

my vote was not a ploy. putting him at L1 was never a ploy. i truly beleived he was scum and voted him BECAUSE HE DIDNT RESPOND. not because i was trying to get more out of him. that would of been used against his REPLACEMENT, which you decided was best to not let someone else speak.

!

i was cheated too. my whole "gambit", the "ploy", was all to get more stuff out of smallpeople so i could use that information against him and others.

you're contradicting yourself here

[Maruchan]

But all of the weak cases, bad logic, backtracking and excessive AtE are not. Let's say he is telling the truth about all of this "ruse" business. You don't think there's anything suspicious about the

timing

of his vote change?

It's consistent with his purported reasons. I'll look over your response to his wall again, though.

my vote was not a ploy. putting him at L1 was never a ploy. i truly beleived he was scum and voted him BECAUSE HE DIDNT RESPOND. not because i was trying to get more out of him. that would of been used against his REPLACEMENT, which you decided was best to not let someone else speak.

!

i was cheated too. my whole "gambit", the "ploy", was all to get more stuff out of smallpeople so i could use that information against him and others.

you're contradicting yourself here

His vote on

smalllpeopes343

was serious; his vote on

me

was a ploy.

the

too

means ALSO, he is replying to Panacea who is saying he doesn't like my vote on SMALLPEOPLES, IE: The post is related to smallpeoples.

[Maruchan]

I had been saying for about two pages before I placed the vote that I had planned on voting him. Everyone was asking why I hadn't placed my vote yet, and I had said, multiple times, that I wanted more input from stuntman before I voted. Then I went to sleep one night and woke up 12 hours later, and saw stuntman had posted, quite a bit. Part of it was to vote on stuntman, while me and oversoul had already stated we planned on voting him. I didn't like his whole "my last vote was a gambit, i never really suspected them ,I just wanted reactions, blah blah blah, -insert more BS here-". Seemed like bad play to me. So I figured I'd ho on with the vote, that I had already told everyone I was going to vote, and I voted WHEN I had already told everyone I was going to vote. I voted who and when I said I would, pages before. Stuntman just caused my vote to be a hammer rather than the L-1.

Maybe it just comes from my roots in hour-long Chat-based mafias, but I felt like D2 was long enough, so I really didn't feel we needed to wait two more weeks to vote.

Off to do my Laundry, when I get back I will iso Stuntman and his predecessors as to why I believe that position is scum.

[Maruchan]

Stuntman, NumberQ, where are you?

Awaiting Maruchan's post.

-coff, look up.

[Maruchan]

OH you mean my stuntman post, yeah sorry me and my dad went to lunch. I'll get right on it now.

[Maruchan]

futhermore they are IC and SE, and they havent died yet.

He pushed this argument on us about ten times. There are in every Newbie Game, 2 SEs and 1 IC. His argument for half of Day 2 was that Packbat and Panacea were scum because they were still alive. However 1 SE did die, and there was only 1 night phase. now 1 SE and 1 IC have dies, and there have been two nightphases. inb4 "Panacea is scum because she is still alive and she is an SE!!!" lolno.

smallpeoples, how would you feel about a pac/pan lynch?

i know its way way way way too early, beleive me i know, but i have hunch, dont you smallpeoples? they are persecuting you together and you know your town. so dont you think they are scum?

Even though smallpeopels flipped town, I still find this little play very... off. It just doesn't feel right. It feels like he is trying to talk smallpeopels into his opinion just for the easy sheepvote.

eh, just the IRC in me.

He uses this when confronted about his impatience with replies to questions he asks. Basically he is saying "I am used to fast-paced games and so I was getting impatient." Yet now he is all over me, BECAUSE i made the game more fast-paced (read: to his liking) by voting quickly (read: like I had already said I would)

what a fitting place to stop, eh? every time i go on 1122 something comes up.

anyway, i think they are too close, or maybe because the name sounds good, still dont know. SPplz would be my ideal lynch from what i can gather now, but imo too soon. espeically with pac and pan on peoples wagon. maybe they are trying to take advt. of his play. futhermore they are IC and SE, and they havent died yet.

smallpeoples, how would you feel about a pac/pan lynch?

i know its way way way way too early, beleive me i know, but i have hunch, dont you smallpeoples? they are persecuting you together and you know your town. so dont you think they are scum?
VOTE: Packbat

As numberQ pointed out this post reads like this: "I agree, I want to lynch smallpeopls. He is my first choice to lynch. Smallpeoples don't you want to defend yourself? Smallpeoples, don't you think packbat and panacea are scummy? Its WAY TO EARLY to vote. Vote:Packbat"
i honestly just don't get the back-and-forth contradistinctions in this post. I'm used to having to point out contradictions people make in SEPERATE posts. this is a first time I have had to point out contradictions made IN THE SAME POST

@numberQ, i said i knew it was too soon to vote pac, not small. im not jumping to conclusions, i have some good arguments i said above.

He says he was saying (in the above quoted post) that his goal was to say it was TO EARLY TO VOTE PACKBAT. then goes on to vote packbat.

TOWN DO NOT QUICKHAMMER, LET SCUM DO THAT

This being said when A: his two prime suspects as scum are already voting. B: when you vote someone, its generally because, YOU THINK THEY ARE SCUM, meaning the scum partner isn't going to HAMMER on his partner.
SO basically either way, how does this work? Both scum are already on him "let scum hammer" sooo..... OR he is scum, hence the vote on him, so of course his partner won't hammer... This looks like an easy way to set up and townie who votes last to look like scum...

smallpeoples, someone who i fully beleived to be as scum (just by de facto being lurking, and now that ive looked at them Pac/Pans reasons against him)

Would these be the same reasons that you said meant Packbat and Panacea were scum? OHOHO I JUST NOTICED SOMETHING! stuntmans action so far: [stuntman impersonation]-joins game- -votes packbat- HE IS IC IF HE IS STILL ALIVE HE MUST BE SCUM -rages about packbats scummieness- -notices nobody is following his IC lynch- -jumps on the biggest bandwaggon- -townie dies- -the guy he wanted to get lynched dies that night- MY EVIL PLAN WORKED OUT PERFECTLY. [/stuntman impersonation]

i voted Packbat to illicit a response as a player did to me when replacing in my last game when she couldnt decide my allingment. then, in a mirror of what IaI did (he was mafia that game, but did this to either appear town or to manipulate me in mafias favor, kind of a win win for him regardless the turnout) i tried to get smallpeoples to agree with me on something i do not beleive in, that is choosing his persecutors (Pan/Pac) and trying to see what his reaction would be to find out a town player (assuming he was scum which i thought he was) pushing a lynch that would benefit him and scum (as atm i assumed pan was very town) and expose him. his response would impact my view of him. having pac onboard with the vote was killing two birds with one stone, making everything come together. seemed more legit when i coupled both things. i mean, no one saw through my plan, except maybe smallpeople which i doubt.

So let me get this straight. Your entire first 2-3 days in the thread everything you did was a LIE (Notice to townies: let scum do all lying, lying and gambits and tricks yourself, don't turn out well for the town). The entire thing was some master plan of yours that nobody else can understand. You expect us to go along with this? Manipulating the game according to their OWN PERSONAL AGENDAS, lying, and master plans are scum-tactics. Try not to use them as town.

which defeated the entire purpose of this and i grew tired waiting

just reinforcing my earlier "he likes things FAST then gets mad at me when I make things FAST" point.

oh btw the game is 1107, mafia won only because i lynched way way too early in lylo.

Lets NOT see a repeat performance please.

im not going to take this seriously unless you acknowledge that was a different stuntman saying those things.

A: Threatening the town with an Ultimatum. Also a scum tactic. Repeat: Do Not Use Scum Tactics As Town.
B: What is this? we have to pretend everything you said before this line was complete drivel? lolno. I will take every word you ever said in this game, at face value. don't like this? don't feed us BS to appease us.

all stuff i said about you and pac, didnt mean a thing.

I know you guys are probably tired of me repeating myself, but one more time for the luls: LYING IS A SCUM TACTIC. DO NOT LIE AS TOWN.

it was all a scam.

Town should not attempt to scam other town.

i said those things to send pac into a bit of a rage to see if he would scumtell and mainly to see how smallpeople would respond

[stuntman impersonation]"I only said what I said hoping to make the IC look bad so we could lynch him, but since he didn't make himself look bad I am willing to vote smallpeoples out of the town since it still helps my overall scum agenda"[/stuntman impersonation]

and that TOWN DO NOT thing, well imo it kind of foolproof. town wont vote town,

By this argument, the scumteam consists of: Panacea, Packbat, Stuntman, Maruchan, Oversoul, zMuffinMan, Vader. Why? all of these people at one point in the game voted a confirmed townie. The only person free of this suspicion, is numberQ. why? His vote has been on me almost the whole game. so good for him. Lets pretend this theory is 100% true, we should all at this point sheep numberQ as being the only confirmed townie.

and scum wont vote scum.

I beg of you to read This Article in its entirety. By your ploy, a scum could have hammered his scum buddy, JUST SO YOU WOULD THINK HIM AS CONFIRMED TOWNIE. wow what a ploy that would have been.

pac agrees with me, he sees its town. so i guess your calling him scum too then.

Humans can be wrong. Just because someone else doesn't see it as scummy, doesn't mean that someone else is right. People Can Be Wrong. proof of this: We lynched Vader d1, and smallpeoples d2.

i dont see how i put myself in the lime light.

Raise of hands, who here at least SLIGHTLY suspects stuntman after his gambit-filled, ploy-centered play style of yesterday? I think most of the town is raising their hands at least slightly. Thats how you got put in the limelight.

i was cheated too. my whole "gambit", the "ploy", was all to get more stuff out of smallpeople so i could use that information against him and others.

Using information against people. Sounds scummy. You could've worded this better, that is unless you were scum.

I also wanted more Stuntman... On the bright side, I doubt Tomorrow will be Lylo, but I guess we'll see soon.

gah! that is very scummy to me. you doubt tomorrow will be lylo? only scum would know for sure. please enlighten me to your doubts.

What she said was not scummy. she didn't say she was SURE today would not be lylo, she said she doubted. as we all SUSPECTED smallpeoples of being SCUM, we ALL should have DOUBTED today would be lylo. Why? If we had lynched scum yesterday, today would not be lylo.

that is no excuse not for you not to care about what I think. your confirmed town to yourself, and from my pov im confirmed town, and so if i think your scum and you should beleive your really not, scum WILL take advantage of that. bad play right their.

I really don't see how it is bad play to not care what SCUM thinks of me. Scum will target anyone they feel is more likely for them to get an easy lynch. Why would I care what scum thinks? its not like scum would really FoS me. They know who all the scum are. They only fake FoSes on town.

my vote was not a ploy. putting him at L1 was never a ploy. i truly beleived he was scum and voted him BECAUSE HE DIDNT RESPOND. not because i was trying to get more out of him. that would of been used against his REPLACEMENT, which you decided was best to not let someone else speak.

NOT because you were trying to get more information out of him? but three quotes ago you said you WERE trying to get more information out of him. to use against others. Or did you forget that....

Now to move on to the scummieness I saw from his predecessors, since they were the same role as him, I feel it is relevant:
Oman:

4) No I'm not. Because I'm not lucky enough to be tricking newbies
5) Scum. It requires less work. Honestly.

Honestly, those two lines just come across kinds iffy to me.

He posted like twice and left, the dude wasn't enjoying it/wasn't interested in the long haul. It's pretty common.

Seems like this is a trend with this role.

Packbat/Val scumpair is kinda likely.

Convenient that between the Stuntman and Oman, this role position has FoSed every dead townie so far in the game as their mane suspects.....

After this we enter a night-phase. During this nightphase, we get a night-phase extension. This means somebody with a night-action role had a question, problem, issue, or needed a replacement. Immediately following this night-phase, Oman is MiA for 3 days. He is then replaced. This would fall quite nicely into the reason the night took so long. Oman wasn't posting in his QT. His partner asked the mod to stall the night to try to find a replacement quickly. Mod stalls the nightphase. Replacement can't be found. Game continues, Oman is left in the dust, Replacement becomes necessary.
Either this is a very surprisingly well-timed COINCIDENCE, or wow that is scummy. (I don't believe in coincidences btw)


If anyone has any questions by anything I said in this post. please speak up I would be happy to clarify.

PEdit: NumberQ, not smart to vote unless you're sure

[Maruchan]

Maru's hammer was too hasty. Yes, SP looked scum, and yes, I still agree that it was one of the best choices at the time. But we had two weeks to wait for small to claim, and there's absolutely no reason the hammer couldn't have waited.

---

Still want to know what this post means. : P

---

So yeah. UNVOTE: Maruchan VOTE: Stuntman

So if we had waited, and smallpeopels had claimed Vanilla Townie, would we have all off-voted or something? What is to gained by this magical waiting game everyone keeps mentioning?


And by what I meant, I thought Panacea was trying to insinuate that my whole "if smallpeoples flips town, I am almost 100% sure numberQ is town" could be a WIFOM gambit, then my post was to point out that it is impossible. There was no way for a scum team to be sure that if you (if you were scum) were to stay OFF the main town vote, no other townie would also. My point was numberQ (you) was the ONLY player in the game to not either BE voting smallpeoples, or FoSing him, besides myself.

The fact that he flips town makes me think of you as moretown. If you were scum you would have taken advantage of the smallpeopels lynch yesterday. I believed panacea was pointing out this could be a WIFOM ploy, and mentioned post was me pointing out that WIFOMing that would have been impossible to guarantee.

[Maruchan]

@Oversoul I see your name, you better step in and say something.

[Maruchan]

I only notice it because I have no life so this game is my life so when this game's no-posting period gets extended I get all

[Maruchan]

huh. looks like either, scum are leading a lynch, the lynch is ON scum, or scum haven't seen the lynch yet.

My vote is on #2, but I won't vote until I see stuntman and panacea post to see their reactions to the vote.

[Maruchan]

VOTE: Stuntman

PANACEA YO UBETTER SEE THIS

[Maruchan]

@ packbat ill link the QT in a few hours when I'm home and not on my cell. I think you'll find it a nice read.

@anyone commenting on my agressive play, that's me. Scum or town, that's how I play. As such I won't really. Take these comments to seriously (no offense). Anyone commenting on my hastieness? I was avoiding the vote like the plauge, hitting ctrl r every 1 minute for an hour WAITING for panacae to log in. She finally logged in at 2 40 and was reading the topic. I was like QUICKVOTE TIME and like 5 seconds later I realized I was an idiot for mentioning her name. That was an honest mistake. The quickvote though I wasn't trying to be hasty, she just happened to be at a red lightand on for 2 seconds. The quickvote the day before I realized was scummy but I would've done it as scum or town.

As I said when I get home ill link the QT.

@muffinman me asking for the qt I was doing it on pupose. I knew it had the risk of backfiring in my face but it was calculated risk in my opinion. I knew the qt and had created an acccount and everything even before I posyed asking it. I edited the qt out of my browser history both times.

My favorite thing so far this game was a ploy I used that didn't get to see the fruits of its labors. The whole 'oman being replaced is what caused night extensionS was imho an awesome ploy. I caused the extension actually by asking a question the mod had to get clarified for me. Again, this will show up in the wt when I link it.


After reading the qt I think you guys might think my play was slightly more calculated than realized.

Also, stuntman no hard feelings. I'm sorry for every bs reason I threw in your face. I only did it as scum trying to convinve town of towns scummieness. I would never take half of the "tells" I posted I had on you as actual tells.


Sorry for typos this was made as walking around the wisconsin state fair following my parents while on my cell in 90 degree temps.

[Maruchan]

I've seen other games where I swear the mods linked the QT post-game.

It al lgets recorded somewhere, and now that the game is over, I see no harm in posting the QT. I will go re-read some of the rules, but I think MuffinMan and Packbat in particular wil lwant to read the QT. if you think my Stuntman Post was long ,wait till you so me Pro/Con's of nightkill/keep alive for each player.

[Maruchan]

Robo's rules make no mention to the post-game

Robo: Can we link the QT so as to show the scum's night-discussion?

[Maruchan]

Hope you guys enjoy reading

[Maruchan]

Packbat, I look forward to playing with you in Crazy's campaign mafia.

[Maruchan]

Just started reading the QT.

I'm not sure. I was thinking maybe MuffinMan, and then we could say that Oversoul stood to gain the most, but part of me thinks that might be too obvious. Plus MuffinMan seems to think you're Town, which is bueno.

we can kill muffinman, then NOT plant the he oversoul had the most to gain ourselves, but let someone else say it.

Da-a-a-ang.

could you clarify your dang for me please? I THINK its a "dang good play there" kind of dang, but I want to be sure


did it surprise you? not only did we do a WIFOM kill, but we let YOU be the person to state why it implied oversoul! XD

[Maruchan]

If you notice, I was trying to tell you to not automatically assume he was scum. I was being helpful to town.

its how I play. even as scum I will point out to town errors in their arguments or logic that may lead them closer to noticing it was me. I prefer all of town to be so good that it makes the game hard for scum. Hard games are more fun. Which is why in chat I'd always get so irked, everybody would just ignore anything I would say, so some games I would get to the point where I just go, OKAY IM FUCKING SCUM NOW LISTEN TO ME!!! YOURE ALL BEING IDIOTS!

then they still dont listen to me, they just spam "LYNCH HIM LYNCH HIM"