Newbie 280: Longest Newbie finally ends, but who won?

[Brutal Assassin]

/confirm

[Brutal Assassin]

Time to replace Team Bicep Dave?

[Brutal Assassin]

Vote Short4Now

because he is scum.

[Brutal Assassin]

Why are you being so defensive, scum?

Voting someone because they voted you isn't exactly a smart move.

[Brutal Assassin]

You didn't defend yourself, you simply attacked me in return.

Perhaps saying "I'm not scum" would have been a defense there (Which is besides the point, since we're still in the random phase and no accusations are based on fact right now)

[Brutal Assassin]

Getting that same gut feeling, Spectrum. I may have gotten lucky picking my random fight

[Brutal Assassin]

**Trying to spur discussion**

So what do you guys think about a Short4Now lynch?

[Brutal Assassin]

Just pushing chat along *Sigh* Slow day lol

[Brutal Assassin]

Pablito: Soooo many of these newbie games hit this stage and just drop off, taking weeks of non-talking in order to make any progress and eventually just making a stupid lynch.

Wouldn't you rather not have this take 3 months?

[Brutal Assassin]

I don't think anyone is quite THAT bad Sage. lol

[Brutal Assassin]

Viper hammered himself? Lol

More boredom than anything pablito. Take it as you like. Also didn't realise how little time had passed since my Speed Mafia game went 6 pages in about 10 hours and my times are all a bit off right now.

I was hoping someone would place a 3rd vote so we could get things started, but since that isn't happening,

Unvote

[Brutal Assassin]

Spectrum hasn't seemed very scummy to me. It isn't the vibe I'm getting at all.

Although to be honest, I haven't really gotten any vibes at all. I just randomly picked someone hoping for a scum to make the mistake of placing a 3rd vote and that didn't work (spectrum made a 2nd, all we have to go by). No-one else has done anything terribly incriminating.

Mikanoff trying to call out a scumpair already is rather suspicious as well, seeing as the only thing that has happened was "You're scum!" "No I'm not" "Oh, ok" lol

[Brutal Assassin]

2+2=4.

*Waits for pablito to yell that math is scummy *

[Brutal Assassin]

Vote Drunky

Arrested Development wasn't funny.

[Brutal Assassin]

Gotta hold off the boredom somehow Pablito lol.

[Brutal Assassin]

But at least I've got something on Drunky. Who the hell watched Arrested Development?

[Brutal Assassin]

Don't help him mod!

[Brutal Assassin]

Unvote, vote spectrumscum

for attacking an attempt at activity and content.

[Brutal Assassin]

Then you could have at least given a good enough reason behind it. I'm not buying it. My vote stands.

[Brutal Assassin]

Pablito, how are we going to put pressure on people to get content if you keep backing down so quick?

Suppposed to push hard, see how they respond, then back down. Not push hard, be told that its scummy, then back off without having gained anything.

[Brutal Assassin]

Unvote, Vote Short4Now

Granted, it was only a 2nd vote and not a 3rd vote (I personally had to check to make sure it wasn't), it carries the air of a 3rd vote due to the string of FOS's.

Especially interesting since if Drunky hadn't removed his vote from Spectrum and put it on me in jest, it would have been a 3rd vote. And I don't feel any of said votes/FOS's even are based on anything really solid.

[Brutal Assassin]

Just letting you all know I'm here, watching the debate with interest, but don't really have the time to analyze it all right now.

[Brutal Assassin]

Wow, I logged on today and saw all of that, paniced for a moment.

Kind of sad that for all my little bait tactics, it is an original PBPA that ended up generating discussion despite, in my opinion, having very little content to provide. The PBPA's explanations and the retorts which I've seen have provided more content than any of the cases which were presented in said original PBPA.

Will watch the back and forth banter and chime in once it is time to start making votes. So far Pablito is giving a town vibe and I don't feel Drunky made that good of a case, but as I said, there was very little content to go off of.

[Brutal Assassin]

Oh, he added more now. lol, that is a bit much. Reading

[Brutal Assassin]

BA 56 wrote:
2+2=4.

*Waits for pablito to yell that math is scummy *


I know this isn't Sage. But hmm. On re-read it's of importance. It's almost as if someone knew I'd say something stupid once the request for volunteering started. In my anti-Sage eyes, this either implicates BA or Sage. Hm, new thought.

Just quoting it and explaining since it has been the only thing brought against me. Was refering to Speed Mafia which you had just recently read after joining as a replacement. The 2+2=4 thing was meant as an inside joke of sorts, since we were just messing around waiting for things to start.

I've liked your PBPA so far, a lot of the statements have been very good and were the same way I interpreted them. You don't try too hard to push an argument, which is good, but in doing so I don't feel you really are making a case, so to speak. I'll have a larger post on everything later, but what I will say is that citing your playing style as a reasoning for why you posted a certain way (especially a scummy way) is scummy generally. When a lurker says "I always lurk" it doesn't mean they aren't scum in the slightest, and actually would lead me to be more suspicious simply because of the fact they are advocating anti-town sentiments. Not that you are a lurker Just an example.

[Brutal Assassin]

Going to break my own rule in stating my general playing style:

Mikanoff, I generally will jump from vote to vote just in the interests of judging reactions. I'll encourage bandwagons in hope that scum will hop on thinking that it will be an easy lynch. Sometimes I don't believe the person I'm voting is scum, but a lot can be learned from the reactions of the people I'm voting.

You can also learn a lot from watching the reactions of the people who decide not to vote, and the reasons they state for doing so.

I'm not going to state the exact things which I look for, but intigating and pushing is something which I tend to do and have been trying to do a bit more frequently. I've recently been called out on "vote hopping" several times, lol.

That said, I'm going to

Unvote (If I was voting), Vote Drunky

. Doing another PBpA would be rather pointless at this point in time, but I disagree with some of pablito's views. I felt Drunky was rather over-defensive in a case where he had little to no suspicion on him whatsoever. He alternated between attacking and over-defensiveness, which is how scum traditionally play.

[Brutal Assassin]

In agreement with what has been said. Short needs to be contributing more, instead of being afraid to say anything because he may be lynched. That is scum sentiment, as I've stated in the past (At least, I believe I did).

Sage, was just a precautionary measure to make sure I unvoted before voting someone, for the mods sake. I don't think I had a vote on anyone. Would have to go back and look.

Unvote, Vote Short4Now

Unvote

To see what Short has to say. Consider yourself -1 right now.

[Brutal Assassin]

Only had 2 votes prior to your unvote, pablito.

[Brutal Assassin]

Really, really disliking how you put words into Spectrums mouth at the end.

Also really disliking the first sentence there regarding activity and fear. Certainly not the kind of response I was hoping to see in response to the votes.

I'll

ABSOLUTELY FAKEVOTE!: Short4Now

while I await the responses from the rest of the town. If we're in agreement, I'll make my vote.

[Brutal Assassin]

Pablito and Sage: Are you both suggesting you would rather I actually voted instead of motion to do so? Thats ridiculous.

I didn't realise that Spectrum DID actually make that last quote which Short4Now bolded. I just looked back through today and found it. It seemed like Short was editing it in for effect. Thus why I said the whole putting words in ones mouth=scummy etc. etc.

Unfakevote: Short4Now

on the misunderstanding.

*Blinks that Spectrum claimed to be a liar back on page 4 and I missed it.*

lol

[Brutal Assassin]

offtopic

Realised just today the extreme differences in Pablito's and my own playing style. Placating vs attacking. Rarely Voting vs Rapidfire Voting. Good cop vs bad cop.

Some interesting differences there. Almost all of your posts give a warm feeling inside, even the last pablito

Anyways....

/offtopic

[Brutal Assassin]

Complimenting good play is anti-town? Since when?

You were being over defensive in the sense that you made a ridiculously long post in response to a tiny allegation. You then basically OMGUS'ed Pablito for said tiny allegation. That is an over-reaction.

I don't think I've been lynched once in any game I've played, Drunky, but usually the aggressive playstyle helps out scum who are willing to jump onto bandwagons with me or people who will outright try to lynch me based on the bandwagons.

I've provided a reason to some extent for every vote I've made. During the slow times they were questionable reasons (as were almost all of our votes, I feel) but that is typical of a game of mafia. I'll go ahead and give a self PbPA of each vote I've made this game in the next post.

Vote Short4Now because he is scum.

Typical opening play, pick someone at random and try to push aggressively to see how they react. I know that I'm more likely to get something out of someone new than I am, say, targetting Spectrum or Pablito, who would just shrug it off or a joking OMGUS. Note S4N follows up next post with an OMGUS, telling me random accusations aren't a smart move.

Vote Drunky

Arrested Development wasn't funny.

As a supporter of bandwagoning and aggressive play, I'd be a hipocrit if I didn't accept the bait. This was to help spur discussion more than it was me thinking you were scummy.

Unvote, vote spectrumscum for attacking an attempt at activity and content.

This was following Pablito "Why not jump on the Sage wagon? (To spur activity)" and Spectrum voting Pablito for asking people to wagon Sage. Again, it would be against my own game theory beliefs to let this go un-noticed. Spectrum had no votes at the time so I wasn't harming anything by making the notice of it.

Unvote, Vote Short4Now

Granted, it was only a 2nd vote and not a 3rd vote (I personally had to check to make sure it wasn't), it carries the air of a 3rd vote due to the string of FOS's.

Especially interesting since if Drunky hadn't removed his vote from Spectrum and put it on me in jest, it would have been a 3rd vote. And I don't feel any of said votes/FOS's even are based on anything really solid.

Fluff post, putting pressure on Short4Now. There was 1 votes and 2 FOS's, and Short4Now followed up with a vote, pushing it to 2 votes.

Short4Nows reasoning was as follows:

"Sorry I haven't been talking, I haven't reall known what to say. However, spectrumvoid is looking suspicious. After reading all the posts I have come to the conclusion that she is mafia. First, she said she voted for me because of her gut, the same reason DA gave. She then said that she wasn't picking up and vibes on anybody, which goes against what she just said. Also, she was quick off the bat to agree with sage to hear from me. "

I felt this was a poor follow up to the discussion which had been started, and that if short was going to put that vote on and push for the lynch, it should require a much better case. 2 votes+2 FOS's means that we, as a town, were seriously considering the lynch. The vote seemed like a poor, blatent attempt to push the 2 FOS'ers to vote.

Going on....

Going to break my own rule in stating my general playing style:

Mikanoff, I generally will jump from vote to vote just in the interests of judging reactions. I'll encourage bandwagons in hope that scum will hop on thinking that it will be an easy lynch. Sometimes I don't believe the person I'm voting is scum, but a lot can be learned from the reactions of the people I'm voting.

You can also learn a lot from watching the reactions of the people who decide not to vote, and the reasons they state for doing so.

I'm not going to state the exact things which I look for, but intigating and pushing is something which I tend to do and have been trying to do a bit more frequently. I've recently been called out on "vote hopping" several times, lol.

That said, I'm going to Unvote (If I was voting), Vote Drunky. Doing another PBpA would be rather pointless at this point in time, but I disagree with some of pablito's views. I felt Drunky was rather over-defensive in a case where he had little to no suspicion on him whatsoever. He alternated between attacking and over-defensiveness, which is how scum traditionally play.

Stated playing style since Pablito had already brought up his, and since I know a lot of people don't know how I tend to play, and that I can often appear to be an over-eager scum at times.

To clarify, Pablito brought up a couple of minor points about you and you shortly thereafter came at him with a long post looking into Pablito being scum. This prompted (or at least, was followed by) the long PBpA where Pablito basically said he didn't think you were scum, then you pushed a little more then dropped it. This would appear to be banter between 2 scum, or just one scum who got caught defending when there was no real scare to begin with. Thus my vote.

In agreement with what has been said. Short needs to be contributing more, instead of being afraid to say anything because he may be lynched. That is scum sentiment, as I've stated in the past (At least, I believe I did).

Sage, was just a precautionary measure to make sure I unvoted before voting someone, for the mods sake. I don't think I had a vote on anyone. Would have to go back and look.

Unvote, Vote Short4Now

Unvote To see what Short has to say. Consider yourself -1 right now.

We went 3 days with almost no conversation, and S4N hadn't posted in 5 days. Nearly every time S4N has posted, it has resulted in a vote from me, although often temporary. I don't like the sentiment that "I don't post because you guys will find me scummy" because that is the mindset of lurker scum. The only way to get lurkers to post is usually by putting a couple votes on them so they are pressured. Again, this fits my playing style because putting people near lynch is where you'll get the vast majority of the information on whether someone is town or scum.

Really, really disliking how you put words into Spectrums mouth at the end.

Also really disliking the first sentence there regarding activity and fear. Certainly not the kind of response I was hoping to see in response to the votes.

I'll ABSOLUTELY FAKEVOTE!: Short4Now while I await the responses from the rest of the town. If we're in agreement, I'll make my vote.

Surprise, surprise. The lurker posts once pressure is put on. The first part of this vote I later point out my confusion. Spectrum did indeed make that final post that was quoted, but I had appearantly missed it earlier.

This vote really stems from the fact that Short4Now has, once again, pulled the lurker scum card. I don't want to place a 3rd vote on Short so that scum could lynch, obviously, and would rather hear what everyone else has to say. What IS alarming is that Short4Now didn't make much of a defense and instantly Pablito, for the 3rd or 4th time this game, jumped off the wagon and picked someone else. A running theme this game has been we start looking into someone, they post making a defense, then we back off entirely, while keeping an eye on them.

If they were scummy, and failed to defend themselves well, it warrants a lynch in my eyes. Otherwise why are we bandwagoning people? We're judging REACTIONS. If the reaction is poor then it should be noted as being scummy.

Pablito and Sage: Are you both suggesting you would rather I actually voted instead of motion to do so? Thats ridiculous.

I didn't realise that Spectrum DID actually make that last quote which Short4Now bolded. I just looked back through today and found it. It seemed like Short was editing it in for effect. Thus why I said the whole putting words in ones mouth=scummy etc. etc.

Unfakevote: Short4Now on the misunderstanding.

*Blinks that Spectrum claimed to be a liar back on page 4 and I missed it.*

lol

Pointing out my mistake from line one of the fakevote. Unfakevoting to acknowledge my misunderstanding.

[Brutal Assassin]

^^Was wondering the same.

[Brutal Assassin]

Going to hop around in replying to this, to try and best organise everything.

BA post 121 wrote:
I've liked your PBPA so far, a lot of the statements have been very good and were the same way I interpreted them. You don't try too hard to push an argument, which is good, but in doing so I don't feel you really are making a case, so to speak. I'll have a larger post on everything later,

but what I will say is that citing your playing style as a reasoning for why you posted a certain way (especially a scummy way) is scummy generally.

When a lurker says "I always lurk" it doesn't mean they aren't scum in the slightest, and actually would lead me to be more suspicious simply because of the fact they are advocating anti-town sentiments. Not that you are a lurker Smile Just an example.

Emphasis mine

This was in reference to the pbpa that pablito had done.

I know, I pointed this out and gave a reason for doing so in post 135:

Going to break my own rule in stating my general playing style:

Mikanoff, I generally will jump from vote to vote just in the interests of judging reactions. I'll encourage bandwagons in hope that scum will hop on thinking that it will be an easy lynch. Sometimes I don't believe the person I'm voting is scum, but a lot can be learned from the reactions of the people I'm voting.

You can also learn a lot from watching the reactions of the people who decide not to vote, and the reasons they state for doing so.

I'm not going to state the exact things which I look for, but intigating and pushing is something which I tend to do and have been trying to do a bit more frequently. I've recently been called out on "vote hopping" several times, lol.

........

Stated playing style since Pablito had already brought up his, and since I know a lot of people don't know how I tend to play, and that I can often appear to be an over-eager scum at times.

Regarding your analysis of my considering reactions scummy when others do not, to that I will simply state that that is what helps a town find scum. We all have different opinions, different reads, different observations. If we all read from a booklet of "things we find scummy" and played based on that, town would consistently lose in every game.

I have my own set of reads and observations which I look for and which I will take mental notes of (as stated earlier) towards whether I feel they are pro-town or scum. My own way of getting reads is to instigate and be aggressive. This will tend to get a lot of OMGUS replies, or responses which show annoyance that the person is being looked into. These kinds of replies don't mean the person is scum, by any means, but it is something which

I

feel nessecary to take note of as part of my own investigations. You may see it as nitpicking for weaknesses, but if I post it up then my own intentions are to see how that person, and others respond to my noting the little things. It is all to get content which I can base my own theories on. You don't have to agree, hell, I'd prefer if you didn't so I can bandwagon until I've got a solid case on someone and then we can act.

Anyways, going on.

Regarding the "little allegation" I did indeed mean:

Where's Drunky? I'm ready to vote him.

Which you followed up, immediately with *after a week of not posting*:

Right now, for me, pablito is the most scummy looking person in the game. He has been way too placating to just about everyone he talks to, and is very quick to agree with someone, even if it means contradicting himself:

Then a long post PBpAing Pablito. Thats what I meant by over-reacting, because it seemed that as you came back you instantly singled out Pablito for a PBpA simply because he was the one prodding you and saying he may vote you.

You may not have seen it as much, but I thought the fact that out of no-where you went and PBpA'ed Pablito based on that (I say that you targetted just him, because it seems that you re-read looking specifically at Pablito's posts. I dont see anywhere else where you specifically stated you thought Pablito was scummy.

Again, small observation, but one which I felt needed to be pointed out since, while I was reading this, the whole post seemed to come out of no-where.

NEXT TOPIC

Spectrum claiming to be a "liar"

My usual playstyle as scum is also to share everything, but lie all the way.

The only signficance of it was that I thought S4N had put it in there himself. This wasn't the case. So when I said "spectrum claimed to be a liar" I was just addressing the fact that the post was indeed made, and S4N was not making it up. I stated this earlier in the post as well, as it was reason for my "unfakevote".

NEXT TOPIC

Regarding Short4Now and why I vote him after nearly every post: Every single post he has complained about being attacked for being scummy. That in itself is scummy and I will attack if every time, I promise. When Short can step up and start providing content, not hiding, then I will stop attacking the matter.

The reason scum lurk is because the most posts one makes the higher chance there is of them slipping up. Short4Now has basically stated that is the reason he's lurking in every single post he's made. That is ALWAYS going to make the statement true.

NEXT TOPIC

Regarding the choice of a new player at the start for a bandwagon. Your quote was:

By choosing a newb to pick on with this you might indeed find a newb scum, but just as often as not, you'll get someone that isn't scum, but that makes a rather scummy opening play because of the pressure.

I wouldn't instantly say (nor did I plan on saying): "OMG, SHORT4NOW IS SCUM BECAUSE HE SAID "THIS"!!!! VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE!!!!" I'd note the reaction to an early bandwagon (which, whether you'll acknowledge it or not, new players are more likely to act their role than an IC) for use later. I'd like to point out how it actually worked out. As a result of some of the early pressure Short4Now would vote me, then back down instantly and not push for anything, prefering to slip into the background. This alone wasn't terribly scummy. Once he re-appeared, however, he made the statement about tending to be called out for being scummy whenever he posts. He has repeated this sentiment several times since. There has been a conscious attempt all game by short to stay out of the spotlight instead of taking an active town role of trying to find scum.

FINAL TOPIC

BA wrote:
I don't think I've been lynched once in any game I've played, Drunky, but usually the aggressive playstyle helps out scum who are willing to jump onto bandwagons with me or

people who will outright try to lynch me based on the bandwagons.

This doesn't even make sense. So you are saying that you do this to help the scum? I mean, that is the only thing that acting like you are could do, as it doesn't seem to be very useful to the town. And the last bit of this that I have bolded just doesn't make any sense at all. You are going to have to explain that again, because I don't see how you being aggressive (which is not what I see you as being, I see you as being antagonistic, which is totally different) is helpful to people that want to try to lynch you...

The point being made is that a lot can be learned based on who will go for the easiest lynch in a given situation. If a town, say 1 or 2 people, start to accuse me of being scummy due to bandwagoning and vote me, then a couple others switch and start pushing in that direction as well, then the odds are that the scum have outted themselves somewhere in that group (unless I did some outstanding thing which would get an entire town against me).

It is all about reactions. When you're pressuring someone you'll get a lot more reactions at much higher degrees than passively playing and noting things. Being aggressive is helpful to a town because you can note voting patterns and gather the reactions made by the rest of the players.

I think that addresses just about everything. I feel I've also made a bit of a case against Short4Now here and would like to hear what others thing of it all (And an answer for why Sage said he is definately not voting Short4Now, when no real defense has been made.

[Brutal Assassin]

Being in a game, consciously participating, but not posting frequently=Lurking.

Noted is the fact we've gone 4 days discussing Short4Now (albiet through Drunky attacking me), and short hasn't posted even then.

[Brutal Assassin]

Sage put S4N at 3 I believe, Spectrum Unvoted, I pointed out that we were approaching deadline and that it was not the time to be attacking a 3rd vote (addressed to pablito), Then pablito stated that he agreed, voted Short4Now offering to let spectrum hammer as she saw fit. Spectrum never posted prior to the site going down.

[Brutal Assassin]

I have the odd feeling that this will be one of the longer newbie games ever.

Sage, care to restate your suspicions on short4now and your willingness to see s4now lynched?

It has been an interesting game.

I personally still support a Short4Now lynch, for my aforementioned reasons. Short4Now has done nothing to change my opinion.

[Brutal Assassin]

Odd, Spectrums post WAS ahead of Pablitos.

"Gut" won't get us a lynch Pablito. I dont think Sage has done much which has triggered my scumdar this game.

Still in shock that S4N is still alive under the premise that he doesn't want to post because he may be found as scummy.

Oh, and welcome Lowell

[Brutal Assassin]

Lol, spectrums post is broken.

[Brutal Assassin]

BRUTAL ASSASSIN. He has been buddying up to people and ideas too much for my liking. That's how I play when I'm scum, and that's why I have usually gotten caught. It's also one of the hardest scum tactics to shake, no matter how much you want to. My feeling is that his hiding is deliberate.

So, right now my two biggest suspects are Drinky and BA. If I'm right I want a parade in my honor.

unvote

in case there was one,

vote Drinky

Eh, I agree with most of your points except in regards to myself and S4N. By "buddying up" do you mean that I am supporting peoples arguments too much? When something sound is said I should just sit idle and let them duke it out? Surely the resulting lurking is much more pro-town behavior. If anyone, Pablito has been the one buddying up to people on the whole (He even admitted to it at one point), but I won't say he is scum just because of that fact.

Also not sure what you meant by hiding :/ I've been here, front and center, and defended myself when Drunky brought up his allegations against me (Did we lose this argument in the crash?).

A Drunky lynch would be OK with me, but I really think Short4Now deserves it a lot more. Drunky seems more like a townie making his arguments too aggressively than a scum pushing hard for a lynch.

Short4Now, on the other hand, has still yet to produce any content at all. Even IF he is town, he's not helping by being afraid to post. He is openly taking the position of lurker scum.

Mikanoff fell into that same catagory, but now that Lowell has stepped in I hope to see a lot more content from that direction. I wasn't able to get any kind of a read on Mikanoff due to him not posting enough and not posting much when he DID post.

Pablito: What are your suspicions except for the "gut" feeling on Sage?

[Brutal Assassin]

Any time someone pushes aggressively for a lynch I consider it rather suspicious, ESPECIALLY when the argument being made isn't all that great. I'm refering to his posts arguing his case against me, which eventually boiled down to a "Yeah....well I still think you're scum" attitude despite most of his points being refuted. This in itself is extremely suspect.

Need to go to school, will make the rest of my case later. I believe I did state earlier that I thought he may be scum but that he was more likely just being stubbourn. Regardless, he

is

my 2nd scummiest right now behind Short4Now, whom seems to have gone away.

[Brutal Assassin]

Hello everyone. I'm replacing short4 now. You will no doubt be pleased to hear that I'm pro town. This game looks pretty meaty, but I've got alot of work to do tonight, so I probably won't get round to reading up until tomorrow. Just checking in.

Here's hoping you won't be afraid to post as scum to give us content.

Pablito: I think a lot of the points you made were rather weak. Not to a point of over-aggressiveness, but they were disconnected and the majority of the time you had nothing to say about his posts or you found it to be town. Sometimes you made some questionable "scum tell"s up. lol

[Brutal Assassin]

Going to do a PBPA of several players sometime this weekend, and try to address some of the attacks on me currently. A bit surprised to see people saying I've been "Buddying up" since this is the exact opposite of how I usually play. I attempted to pressure Short4Now to post since the things he was saying WERE extremely scummy. I don't see how anyone could defend "I'm not going to post because if I post you guys might find me scummy".

To be more accurate, you guys would need to figure in when Short4Now posted to when I swinged my vote that way. I think you'll find that nearly every time Short4Now made a scummy post I changed my target back to Short4Now. In a normal situation, where Short4Now was ACTIVE, I would have kept pressing in order to see what kind of other scummy actions would be made. This is how the game works, you look for scum. If we all sat here and waited for people to do scummy things we'd never win, since the scum are doing the exact same thing. You have to be aggressive, particularly in the begining of the game, in order to get reads on people. I think I made this entire argument back in my PBPA of myself some pages back (Not sure if we lost it or not) but I defended myself against most of the points being made by the newcomers not too long ago.

I never completely stated my list after Short4Now because I wasn't getting much information from anyone else until Drunky started his attack on me, which wasn't terribly good IMHO. I felt like it was an over-agressive push as a result of over-defensiveness, and I posted THAT entire case back when I voted Drunky. I have to check, but I know I had a post where I outlined that Drunky was acting rather scummy but that he may have just been a defensive townie, then said that it was likely that he was just the latter, but that I'd be keeping my eye on him. Not sure where this post went, or if you guys are just convieniently overlooking my previous comments on Drunky.

Lastly, regarding my offtopic comment to Pablito, I was genuinely noting a complete contrast in styles and that I thought pablito's general tactics were good. I'd never seen anyone buddy up so much in a game, but it seemed that he was largely setting up scum traps as well. It wasn't really extremely offtopic in the sense that I felt how pablito was playing was pro-town.

ALL of these points were addressed in my own PBPA. It IS still there isn't it? Did our new people just skip over it because it was so long? :/

Sage's PBPA was pretty good, however, I personally DO feel that in the early going laying scum-traps is a good way to find scum. The only reason it didn't particularly work is because Short4Now opted not to post at all instead of defending himself. Now that Short has been replaced, the entire point is moot. However, I still have to think alignment had to have been a major role in why Short4Now didn't post. If you're town, you have NOTHING TO HIDE.

Lowells quick switch from Drunky to myself is alarming, ESPECIALLY his claim that I never had a case on Short4Now. That seems quite opportunistic after Patrick posted with his main case being that I thought Drunky may be scum. Drunky was at the top of Lowells own list! A rather quick switch.

Regarding your comment that when not being pressured I've been more aggressive than when I was being pressured, it really is only common sense. If people are voting me, I need to get them off of voting me before I even consider any other targets. Counter-cases don't usually work because it is seen as dodging the issue. Then I can go back to my usual aggressive play.

Anyways, will do a little bit of PBPA this weekend if I can find the time.

[Brutal Assassin]

Here, no time to read at the moment. Will look at the new posts shortly (didn't notice anyone posted in this one)

[Brutal Assassin]

I would like Lowell to say however how he suddenly went from voting Drunky and feeling more confident about his case on him to switching to his other suspect BA. There is a strong chance they’re both scum in your mind (as clear from your intial analysis), but what made your priorities switch?

I think I addressed my concerns regarding this earlier as well. Never got an explanation. Found is especially alarming since he posted it right after Patrick had posted saying he suspected me. It rang out to me as being opportunistic, as I said back in post 267:

Lowells quick switch from Drunky to myself is alarming, ESPECIALLY his claim that I never had a case on Short4Now. That seems quite opportunistic after Patrick posted with his main case being that I thought Drunky may be scum. Drunky was at the top of Lowells own list! A rather quick switch.

That said, I'm also surprised that Lowell thinks that Drunky and I may be a scum team, considering the rather long dispute we had in the middle of this game. You didn't bring it up as a reason WHY we're appearantly a scum team, and never even mentioned it. As a matter of fact it seems you've left out A LOT of the game in your reasoning and attacks so far. Understandable considering you just replaced in, but the zealousness you have as you join the game and hop on a bandwagon without having a full understanding of past events is alarming, and can easily be seen as a scum tell.

I've already addressed most of the rather loose claims which are being made against me, but if anyone has any other questions on my past actions go ahead and shoot. I've already responded to the pressure put on myself, and no-one really had anything to say regarding it.

[Brutal Assassin]

Hottest people?

[Brutal Assassin]

Sage - 152 posts
Lowell - 310 Posts
Pablito - 1235 Posts
Patrick - 1098 Posts
Drunky - 72 Posts
Spectrum - 1157 Posts
Myself - 333 Posts

Nah, not really a newbie game at all.

Not sure what it is you really want, Lowell. The reasons for why I'm being considered scum at this point are very fuzzy and are being made mostly by 2 guys who JUST came into the game and who have shown they may have missed some parts of the game altogether, or weren't able to piece together some of the reasoning.

[Brutal Assassin]

Under that logic, you think we should wipe away 10 pages of information on both Short4Now and Mikanoff just because someone else filled the shoes of that role? That is stupid, and extremely limits the information we have in searching for scum. If that really IS the case that is trying to be presented, when we need to look closer into Patrick and Lowell instead of the 5 or 6 posts they've made.

I find it remarkable that 2 people can join, make a few posts, and have 2 or 3 people in the game saying they are nearly confirmed town. Look into these guys. Their cases are shaky, they've created a bandwagon a matter of minutes after joining the game. I find the fact that Sage just hopped on so quickly with such poor reasoning highly opportunistic as well. You've shown almost no suspicions towards me all game then vote me based on the fact that I want to keep past actions of the replacee's in mind instead of giving them a completely clean slate. That is NOT pro-town play at all.

Regarding playstyle, at the time I mentioned playstyle 3 others had mentioned their own playstyle at some point during the game. Under the logic that using playstyle is scummy, then half the game is scummy, including Short4Now/Patrick, who used playstyle as an excuse in every single post he made.

Posts in which I have made defenses:

The playstyle post, note how I mentioned Speed Mafia, which I was in with Pablito. I tend to play very aggressive in most of my games, and the reason

I

cited playstyle was because I had just played in Speed Mafia with pablito and it was of relevance. I think spectrum was in it too, can't remember now and it is off my watched list + search is disabled.

Quote:
BA 56 wrote:
2+2=4.

*Waits for pablito to yell that math is scummy Smile*


I know this isn't Sage. But hmm. On re-read it's of importance. It's almost as if someone knew I'd say something stupid once the request for volunteering started. In my anti-Sage eyes, this either implicates BA or Sage. Hm, new thought.


Just quoting it and explaining since it has been the only thing brought against me. Was refering to Speed Mafia which you had just recently read after joining as a replacement. The 2+2=4 thing was meant as an inside joke of sorts, since we were just messing around waiting for things to start.

I've liked your PBPA so far, a lot of the statements have been very good and were the same way I interpreted them. You don't try too hard to push an argument, which is good, but in doing so I don't feel you really are making a case, so to speak. I'll have a larger post on everything later, but what I will say is that citing your playing style as a reasoning for why you posted a certain way (especially a scummy way) is scummy generally. When a lurker says "I always lurk" it doesn't mean they aren't scum in the slightest, and actually would lead me to be more suspicious simply because of the fact they are advocating anti-town sentiments. Not that you are a lurker Smile Just an example.

Here is the post in which I state my own playstyle, as a defense from LIGHT allegations in which I had almost no pressure at all. Nothing much was happening and Mikanoff made a comment about my jumping between targets. At the time I think I had only voted once, and a few times in joking (Arrested Development).

Going to break my own rule in stating my general playing style:

Mikanoff, I generally will jump from vote to vote just in the interests of judging reactions. I'll encourage bandwagons in hope that scum will hop on thinking that it will be an easy lynch. Sometimes I don't believe the person I'm voting is scum, but a lot can be learned from the reactions of the people I'm voting.

You can also learn a lot from watching the reactions of the people who decide not to vote, and the reasons they state for doing so.

I'm not going to state the exact things which I look for, but intigating and pushing is something which I tend to do and have been trying to do a bit more frequently. I've recently been called out on "vote hopping" several times, lol.

That said, I'm going to Unvote (If I was voting), Vote Drunky. Doing another PBpA would be rather pointless at this point in time, but I disagree with some of pablito's views. I felt Drunky was rather over-defensive in a case where he had little to no suspicion on him whatsoever. He alternated between attacking and over-defensiveness, which is how scum traditionally play.

After this followed a series of votes for Short4Now, eventually putting Short4Now at -1. (+2, technically, in "Please talk" votes). Short4Now posts once, votes go off, and doesn't post again for a long time.

Post 162 is responding to Drunky saying that I vote hop too much. This is where I show how the playstyle profile I claimed like 4 pages earlier is exactly how I've been playing, and I defend each of the votes I had placed so far.

Complimenting good play is anti-town? Since when?

You were being over defensive in the sense that you made a ridiculously long post in response to a tiny allegation. You then basically OMGUS'ed Pablito for said tiny allegation. That is an over-reaction.

I don't think I've been lynched once in any game I've played, Drunky, but usually the aggressive playstyle helps out scum who are willing to jump onto bandwagons with me or people who will outright try to lynch me based on the bandwagons.

I've provided a reason to some extent for every vote I've made. During the slow times they were questionable reasons (as were almost all of our votes, I feel) but that is typical of a game of mafia. I'll go ahead and give a self PbPA of each vote I've made this game in the next post.

Vote Short4Now because he is scum.

Typical opening play, pick someone at random and try to push aggressively to see how they react. I know that I'm more likely to get something out of someone new than I am, say, targetting Spectrum or Pablito, who would just shrug it off or a joking OMGUS. Note S4N follows up next post with an OMGUS, telling me random accusations aren't a smart move.

Vote Drunky

Arrested Development wasn't funny.

As a supporter of bandwagoning and aggressive play, I'd be a hipocrit if I didn't accept the bait. This was to help spur discussion more than it was me thinking you were scummy.

Unvote, vote spectrumscum for attacking an attempt at activity and content.

This was following Pablito "Why not jump on the Sage wagon? (To spur activity)" and Spectrum voting Pablito for asking people to wagon Sage. Again, it would be against my own game theory beliefs to let this go un-noticed. Spectrum had no votes at the time so I wasn't harming anything by making the notice of it.

Unvote, Vote Short4Now

Granted, it was only a 2nd vote and not a 3rd vote (I personally had to check to make sure it wasn't), it carries the air of a 3rd vote due to the string of FOS's.

Especially interesting since if Drunky hadn't removed his vote from Spectrum and put it on me in jest, it would have been a 3rd vote. And I don't feel any of said votes/FOS's even are based on anything really solid.

Fluff post, putting pressure on Short4Now. There was 1 votes and 2 FOS's, and Short4Now followed up with a vote, pushing it to 2 votes.

Short4Nows reasoning was as follows:

"Sorry I haven't been talking, I haven't reall known what to say. However, spectrumvoid is looking suspicious. After reading all the posts I have come to the conclusion that she is mafia. First, she said she voted for me because of her gut, the same reason DA gave. She then said that she wasn't picking up and vibes on anybody, which goes against what she just said. Also, she was quick off the bat to agree with sage to hear from me. "

I felt this was a poor follow up to the discussion which had been started, and that if short was going to put that vote on and push for the lynch, it should require a much better case. 2 votes+2 FOS's means that we, as a town, were seriously considering the lynch. The vote seemed like a poor, blatent attempt to push the 2 FOS'ers to vote.

Going on....

Going to break my own rule in stating my general playing style:

Mikanoff, I generally will jump from vote to vote just in the interests of judging reactions. I'll encourage bandwagons in hope that scum will hop on thinking that it will be an easy lynch. Sometimes I don't believe the person I'm voting is scum, but a lot can be learned from the reactions of the people I'm voting.

You can also learn a lot from watching the reactions of the people who decide not to vote, and the reasons they state for doing so.

I'm not going to state the exact things which I look for, but intigating and pushing is something which I tend to do and have been trying to do a bit more frequently. I've recently been called out on "vote hopping" several times, lol.

That said, I'm going to Unvote (If I was voting), Vote Drunky. Doing another PBpA would be rather pointless at this point in time, but I disagree with some of pablito's views. I felt Drunky was rather over-defensive in a case where he had little to no suspicion on him whatsoever. He alternated between attacking and over-defensiveness, which is how scum traditionally play.

Stated playing style since Pablito had already brought up his, and since I know a lot of people don't know how I tend to play, and that I can often appear to be an over-eager scum at times.

To clarify, Pablito brought up a couple of minor points about you and you shortly thereafter came at him with a long post looking into Pablito being scum. This prompted (or at least, was followed by) the long PBpA where Pablito basically said he didn't think you were scum, then you pushed a little more then dropped it. This would appear to be banter between 2 scum, or just one scum who got caught defending when there was no real scare to begin with. Thus my vote.

In agreement with what has been said. Short needs to be contributing more, instead of being afraid to say anything because he may be lynched. That is scum sentiment, as I've stated in the past (At least, I believe I did).

Sage, was just a precautionary measure to make sure I unvoted before voting someone, for the mods sake. I don't think I had a vote on anyone. Would have to go back and look.

Unvote, Vote Short4Now

Unvote To see what Short has to say. Consider yourself -1 right now.

We went 3 days with almost no conversation, and S4N hadn't posted in 5 days. Nearly every time S4N has posted, it has resulted in a vote from me, although often temporary. I don't like the sentiment that "I don't post because you guys will find me scummy" because that is the mindset of lurker scum. The only way to get lurkers to post is usually by putting a couple votes on them so they are pressured. Again, this fits my playing style because putting people near lynch is where you'll get the vast majority of the information on whether someone is town or scum.

Really, really disliking how you put words into Spectrums mouth at the end.

Also really disliking the first sentence there regarding activity and fear. Certainly not the kind of response I was hoping to see in response to the votes.

I'll ABSOLUTELY FAKEVOTE!: Short4Now while I await the responses from the rest of the town. If we're in agreement, I'll make my vote.

Surprise, surprise. The lurker posts once pressure is put on. The first part of this vote I later point out my confusion. Spectrum did indeed make that final post that was quoted, but I had appearantly missed it earlier.

This vote really stems from the fact that Short4Now has, once again, pulled the lurker scum card. I don't want to place a 3rd vote on Short so that scum could lynch, obviously, and would rather hear what everyone else has to say. What IS alarming is that Short4Now didn't make much of a defense and instantly Pablito, for the 3rd or 4th time this game, jumped off the wagon and picked someone else. A running theme this game has been we start looking into someone, they post making a defense, then we back off entirely, while keeping an eye on them.

If they were scummy, and failed to defend themselves well, it warrants a lynch in my eyes. Otherwise why are we bandwagoning people? We're judging REACTIONS. If the reaction is poor then it should be noted as being scummy.

Pablito and Sage: Are you both suggesting you would rather I actually voted instead of motion to do so? Thats ridiculous.

I didn't realise that Spectrum DID actually make that last quote which Short4Now bolded. I just looked back through today and found it. It seemed like Short was editing it in for effect. Thus why I said the whole putting words in ones mouth=scummy etc. etc.

Unfakevote: Short4Now on the misunderstanding.

*Blinks that Spectrum claimed to be a liar back on page 4 and I missed it.*

lol

Pointing out my mistake from line one of the fakevote. Unfakevoting to acknowledge my misunderstanding.

This post below explains my reasoning for picking Short4Now, again fitting into the general plan of things since the begining. I also respond to even more of Drunky's allegations.

Going to hop around in replying to this, to try and best organise everything.

BA post 121 wrote:
I've liked your PBPA so far, a lot of the statements have been very good and were the same way I interpreted them. You don't try too hard to push an argument, which is good, but in doing so I don't feel you really are making a case, so to speak. I'll have a larger post on everything later,

but what I will say is that citing your playing style as a reasoning for why you posted a certain way (especially a scummy way) is scummy generally.

When a lurker says "I always lurk" it doesn't mean they aren't scum in the slightest, and actually would lead me to be more suspicious simply because of the fact they are advocating anti-town sentiments. Not that you are a lurker Smile Just an example.

Emphasis mine

This was in reference to the pbpa that pablito had done.

I know, I pointed this out and gave a reason for doing so in post 135:

Going to break my own rule in stating my general playing style:

Mikanoff, I generally will jump from vote to vote just in the interests of judging reactions. I'll encourage bandwagons in hope that scum will hop on thinking that it will be an easy lynch. Sometimes I don't believe the person I'm voting is scum, but a lot can be learned from the reactions of the people I'm voting.

You can also learn a lot from watching the reactions of the people who decide not to vote, and the reasons they state for doing so.

I'm not going to state the exact things which I look for, but intigating and pushing is something which I tend to do and have been trying to do a bit more frequently. I've recently been called out on "vote hopping" several times, lol.

........

Stated playing style since Pablito had already brought up his, and since I know a lot of people don't know how I tend to play, and that I can often appear to be an over-eager scum at times.

Regarding your analysis of my considering reactions scummy when others do not, to that I will simply state that that is what helps a town find scum. We all have different opinions, different reads, different observations. If we all read from a booklet of "things we find scummy" and played based on that, town would consistently lose in every game.

I have my own set of reads and observations which I look for and which I will take mental notes of (as stated earlier) towards whether I feel they are pro-town or scum. My own way of getting reads is to instigate and be aggressive. This will tend to get a lot of OMGUS replies, or responses which show annoyance that the person is being looked into. These kinds of replies don't mean the person is scum, by any means, but it is something which

I

feel nessecary to take note of as part of my own investigations. You may see it as nitpicking for weaknesses, but if I post it up then my own intentions are to see how that person, and others respond to my noting the little things. It is all to get content which I can base my own theories on. You don't have to agree, hell, I'd prefer if you didn't so I can bandwagon until I've got a solid case on someone and then we can act.

Anyways, going on.

Regarding the "little allegation" I did indeed mean:

Where's Drunky? I'm ready to vote him.

Which you followed up, immediately with *after a week of not posting*:

Right now, for me, pablito is the most scummy looking person in the game. He has been way too placating to just about everyone he talks to, and is very quick to agree with someone, even if it means contradicting himself:

Then a long post PBpAing Pablito. Thats what I meant by over-reacting, because it seemed that as you came back you instantly singled out Pablito for a PBpA simply because he was the one prodding you and saying he may vote you.

You may not have seen it as much, but I thought the fact that out of no-where you went and PBpA'ed Pablito based on that (I say that you targetted just him, because it seems that you re-read looking specifically at Pablito's posts. I dont see anywhere else where you specifically stated you thought Pablito was scummy.

Again, small observation, but one which I felt needed to be pointed out since, while I was reading this, the whole post seemed to come out of no-where.

NEXT TOPIC

Spectrum claiming to be a "liar"

My usual playstyle as scum is also to share everything, but lie all the way.

The only signficance of it was that I thought S4N had put it in there himself. This wasn't the case. So when I said "spectrum claimed to be a liar" I was just addressing the fact that the post was indeed made, and S4N was not making it up. I stated this earlier in the post as well, as it was reason for my "unfakevote".

NEXT TOPIC

Regarding Short4Now and why I vote him after nearly every post: Every single post he has complained about being attacked for being scummy. That in itself is scummy and I will attack if every time, I promise. When Short can step up and start providing content, not hiding, then I will stop attacking the matter.

The reason scum lurk is because the most posts one makes the higher chance there is of them slipping up. Short4Now has basically stated that is the reason he's lurking in every single post he's made. That is ALWAYS going to make the statement true.

NEXT TOPIC

Regarding the choice of a new player at the start for a bandwagon. Your quote was:

By choosing a newb to pick on with this you might indeed find a newb scum, but just as often as not, you'll get someone that isn't scum, but that makes a rather scummy opening play because of the pressure.

I wouldn't instantly say (nor did I plan on saying): "OMG, SHORT4NOW IS SCUM BECAUSE HE SAID "THIS"!!!! VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE!!!!" I'd note the reaction to an early bandwagon (which, whether you'll acknowledge it or not, new players are more likely to act their role than an IC) for use later. I'd like to point out how it actually worked out. As a result of some of the early pressure Short4Now would vote me, then back down instantly and not push for anything, prefering to slip into the background. This alone wasn't terribly scummy. Once he re-appeared, however, he made the statement about tending to be called out for being scummy whenever he posts. He has repeated this sentiment several times since. There has been a conscious attempt all game by short to stay out of the spotlight instead of taking an active town role of trying to find scum.

FINAL TOPIC

BA wrote:
I don't think I've been lynched once in any game I've played, Drunky, but usually the aggressive playstyle helps out scum who are willing to jump onto bandwagons with me or

people who will outright try to lynch me based on the bandwagons.

This doesn't even make sense. So you are saying that you do this to help the scum? I mean, that is the only thing that acting like you are could do, as it doesn't seem to be very useful to the town. And the last bit of this that I have bolded just doesn't make any sense at all. You are going to have to explain that again, because I don't see how you being aggressive (which is not what I see you as being, I see you as being antagonistic, which is totally different) is helpful to people that want to try to lynch you...

The point being made is that a lot can be learned based on who will go for the easiest lynch in a given situation. If a town, say 1 or 2 people, start to accuse me of being scummy due to bandwagoning and vote me, then a couple others switch and start pushing in that direction as well, then the odds are that the scum have outted themselves somewhere in that group (unless I did some outstanding thing which would get an entire town against me).

It is all about reactions. When you're pressuring someone you'll get a lot more reactions at much higher degrees than passively playing and noting things. Being aggressive is helpful to a town because you can note voting patterns and gather the reactions made by the rest of the players.

I think that addresses just about everything. I feel I've also made a bit of a case against Short4Now here and would like to hear what others thing of it all (And an answer for why Sage said he is definately not voting Short4Now, when no real defense has been made.

I responded to every one of the allegations made on MORE than one occaision, and it was accepted by people in the game THEN. Just surprised I'm now having to defend myself on the exact same points in much vaguer terminology now that Lowell and Patrick joined in.

Big FoS: Sage

for how quick he hopped on such wagon.

Will need to go through the recent posts to see if I can get a better reading on my scumdar of Lowell and Patrick, since I can't really tell much yet. Now sure how much of it is opportunistic and how much of it is innocent misreading. It is hard to judge people based on so few posts since appearantly it is "scummy" to use previous posts by the person they replaced. Which is why I'm surprised that Pablito practically cleared them so soon after they replaced in.

[Brutal Assassin]

Also, why only looking at Drunky and pablito? It's like everyone suspected us two - very fashionable to do so.

I'm suddenly liking BA as a lynch right now. BA could have easily used the history that we had together to convince me to not go after him.

I think we've all been suspected, with the exeptions of Patrick and Lowell who just replaced in. This is a newbie game full of great players, I think we'd be idiots to not say we've suspected everyone at some point in time.

Or perhaps I used the history that we had together to show point out to you and Spectrum that I am playing exactly as I normally do.

That said, am going to go back through and look at spectrum a bit more. I always have a tendency to believe she is town from the start, because she usually is I guess. Will look through again though.

[Brutal Assassin]

That said, am going to go back through and look at spectrum a bit more. I always have a tendency to believe she is town from the start, because she usually is I guess. Will look through again though.

What he's saying is, he is going to look back through your posts, and he's commenting that you usually look townie to him, though maybe that's because you usually are a townie. I don't think he was actually calling you out as town in that post, though maybe I'm wrong.

^^^Right.

[Brutal Assassin]

Spectrum went up a few notches on my list for the post, actually, as I think she did on everyone elses as well.

I wish I had more time to do a proper re-read and a few pbpa's but with Finals, holiday rushes at UPS Store, and general xmas stuff I simply don't have the time. I'll try to fit in time at some point to at least re-read the past 4 or 5 pages. Would like to at least re-read Patrick and Lowell.

[Brutal Assassin]

Spectrum, based on that latest post, Patrick (Replacing Short4Now, also was quick to bandwagon once he got into the game, never really addressed any of my arguments and unrelentlessly attacks the same points while never really addressing why none of my answers satisfy him. He's trying really hard), and Lowell (Rather similar to Patrick in the latter regards. I never really felt right about Mikanoff either, but then again, he never did much of anything.).

Patrick+Spectrum are my highest currently.

[Brutal Assassin]

Did ANYONE have high suspicions of Spectrum? Don't be a hipocrit. Everyone in the game was shocked by it. To say that because I suddenly suspect Spectrum her and I must be scum together is fucking stupid.

I DONT believe that you and spectrum are scum together. What is with you and all of this package suspicion nonsense? Just because 2 people are the highest on someones list doesn't mean they fit together as a scum pair. You're trying really hard right now eh?

[Brutal Assassin]

unvote Drunky, VOTE BA

I read back through the thread, per Sage's request. I no longer think Drunky is the most suspicious. Many of his posts, particularly the early ones, do have the feel of a pro-town player.

BA, however, looks worse than I remember. A few things stick out.

1) He has been at the forefront of the "lynch short4now" wagon, without giving any good reasons as to why (put all his posts together and read if you doubt it).

2) His general tone throughout this game is off. He has been too "chummy" for my taste. Take a look at most of his posts. They agree with somone else's reasoning, ask inocuous questions, and target the easiest kill. In short, they buddy up to the assertive players. Posts 80 and 89, for example (which I choose only because that's the page I have open right now).

3) He seems emboldened to take strong stances only when the pressure is off and he feels free to move around a bit. One of the problems I have when I'm scum is that, at some point during the game, the suspicion is somewhere else I can't help but appear a little to "happy" about it in my posts. Likewise for BA.

Sucking up and targeting the weakest players are, to me, a scumtell. Wanting to find a "general consensus" is as well. Vote BA for lynch.



(The above produced and endorsed by the Citizens for a BA Lynch committee)

For better or worse I'm sold on Pablito and Patrick being town.

I'm here.

BA is still guilty.

*continues posting spree*

M'eh, Drunky may be guilty, but BA definately is. Somebody listen to me!

BA- No, I don't have some sort of silver bullet that confirms that you and Drunky are scum together. For now I'll just say that (a) I found you two the most scummy, independently, (b) a "fight" between you doesn't do anything to absolve either one of you, and (c) basically the reason you jumped over drunky to top my list is that Drunky made a post I bought as pro-town whereas you have not.

BA is still scum, people. Pablito's quest for "longest newbie game ever" notwithstanding, let's just do this.

We found a scum, people, let's end this. This "package deal" nonsense doesn't work as well as you think it does. In fact, it helps scum to decide who to kill during the night.

Those are all of the posts which you have made since voting me. During that time, I've posted probably a good 15-20 times, addressing your points multiple times. Something productive would indeed be nice.

[Brutal Assassin]

So you think Sage is scum but you'll put me at -1 while we're waiting for a read-through by CTD? Wtf Spectrum?

[Brutal Assassin]

Still waiting on some analysis by CTD, but please let me have a post prior to hammering. Don't want to rush to anything.

[Brutal Assassin]

Someone mind unvoting before Pablito does something stupid? I'd like to hear CTD's opinion prior to my claim. It seems since Pablito is at the top of CTD's very vague list he's set to hammer before CTD posts. I don't see any reason to not let CTD get his thoughts out there prior to any hammering.

[Brutal Assassin]

I'll have limited access 23rd-27th. Will try to fit in time to post my claim once CTD posts his thoughts.

[Brutal Assassin]

Not sure what to think anymore. Sage's quick change of feelings after pablito accused him of....quick changes of feeling...is extremely alarming.

I didn't want to claim early because Pablito's eagerness was alarming. The fact that you were going to "lynch me after CTD posts" meant that when I claimed you would pull the "BULLSHIT! Vote BA!" routine. It was basically setting up the easy lynch. And, as has been brought up, you're starting more and more to give off a frustrated scum vibe. This day has lasted 2 months but you weren't going to give CTD a couple more days to formulate and post his thoughts? Only a scum worried about losing his kill would think that way. Combine this with the sharp change of heart awhile back (The "BA has been "using me" accusation") and bells are starting to go off in my head. Self-votes also tend to be a scum tell, especially given the frustation tone your posts have had as of late.

That said, I'd like an unvote down to 2 votes prior to my claim (provided it is still expected of me. I am either the cop or the doc, as has been obviously shown. If I'm not going to be the lynch for today then I'd really rather not give the scum any more information.) to avoid any hasty actions by Pablito or any other scum. And I'm also going to

Unvote, Vote Pablito

on the above grounds.

[Brutal Assassin]

PbPA of PABLITO starting with Post 316:

I mean, wtf? Just because Drunky and I have posted better answers it is suddenly more worthwhile to vote Sage?

Also, why only looking at Drunky and pablito? It's like everyone suspected us two - very fashionable to do so.

I'm suddenly liking BA as a lynch right now. BA could have easily used the history that we had together to convince me to not go after him.

This is where the alarms started to go off. You haven't been one to bandwagon all game, and actually earlier I believe you unvoted because you were concerned with the speed of a bandwagon earlier. It was uncharacteristic of you to hop on this without any proper analysis. The last statement I found scummy simply because it SHOULDN'T have been a reason to "not go after me". It sounds almost like you struggled to come up with an excuse to look at me further.

I'm definitely for the spamming idea. Although on a superficial search, I think we've got longest D1 for a newbie. But it's pretty clear we're on track to make longest newbie game ever.

and I do not find it coincidence that I'm responsible for two other games in the top 10 longest newbie games.

so, spectrum can you hone in on any specific Sage posts or answers that tipped you off or was it more of a general tone that Sage didn't give you?

Nother of importance, but you quickly jump at the Spectrum post just like everyone else does. Can be interpretted as a town play since just about everyone sent red flags up with that post.

I'm more confident that BA is scum than spectrum, but one of these two is better than Sage or drunky at the moment.

More alarming, as you're starting to single me out without ever having actually SAID anything. Your convictions haven't seemed strong at all, instead it seems like you're just pushing the wagon a bit more to get it started. Latent scum behavior, trying to slowly push towards my lynch without having much to say. This is VERY uncharacteristic of you, given that you did 3 pbpa's throughout the game (not counting the one on yourself).

booo, we're not even going to get longest D1, that was 16 pages and that was newbie 241 summertime mafia.

I will vote once we get that vote count I requested.

I think we're a little premature on assuming that BA is going to turn up scum. I think most of us are at the conclusion that he's likeliest.

But I really think it's poor play to hypothesize and plan a scum partner lynch for the next day already. FoS: Patrick

Considering that most of us would be willing to jump on him and spectrum during D2, I don't think it's horrible if we don't decide what action to take with Drunky. Nonetheless I would still support interrogating him now - I've been for putting pressure on Drunky for a while. And we've already asked for the prod, so I don't know how much more pressure we could place on him.

Italicized a part for reference later. Attacking Drunky's activity and pointing out that you've suspected him for quite some time is conflicting again. This sounds more like a call for activity than wanting to put pressure on him. To address 3 people as possible scum in this post, combined with the Sage implication in the above post, is really confusing. you've got everyone who hasn't recently been replaced on your list of potential scum at this point.

You are showing no absolute direction at this point

REFERENCED FOR LATER!

Well, let's not be too hasty until spectrum returns - at the least.

Wait, who's BA suspecting right now? or was the last person he suspected?

MY REPLY

Spectrum, based on that latest post, Patrick (Replacing Short4Now, also was quick to bandwagon once he got into the game, never really addressed any of my arguments and unrelentlessly attacks the same points while never really addressing why none of my answers satisfy him. He's trying really hard), and Lowell (Rather similar to Patrick in the latter regards. I never really felt right about Mikanoff either, but then again, he never did much of anything.).

Patrick+Spectrum are my highest currently.

This was understandable, and I went ahead and quoted my post as well to show that I was indeed NOT suspecting Pablito at this point. I hadn't been able to get a read on anyone since everyone was basically saying the same things about me, which are all understandable points which appearantly cannot be defended against. Patrick and SV were indeed my highest suspects at the time of post, but as you can see by the reasoning, they weren't solid reasons, just hunches. It is the sharp change in your behavior which follows which made me sway so quickly.

Once we get word on DMcD's status I will place an intent to vote BA with a deadline.

I think BA is as good as we're going to get today

.

This whole post reaks of scummy. The fact that you are so quickly willing to hop on the bandwagon after just 2 pages of discussion is completely against how you've played all game. "as good as we're going to get" sounds rather pessimistic, as if you don't entirely believe that I am scum yet you are so quick to want to hammer. The aggressiveness of the following posts in contrast to "as good as we're going to get" is a further tell.

CrashTextDummie replaces Drunky

vote: BA, unvote: BA and it will change into a vote in a few days

I'd like to actually see CrashTextDummie post.

The eagerness to have CTD post just one day after being replaced gives off a tone of a frustrated scum who doesn't want his wagon to die down. You were hoping for CTD to post, convict me, then hammer quickly to end the day. When this doesn't pan out.........

ha. ha. funny.

^^^This followed spectrum voting me

to prove he's not distancing, he puts BA at three votes even though it's clear that I'm willing to put a fourth vote.

spectrum was too hasty with that vote and should've been sure as hell that BA is scum before putting that vote. I smell scum trying to hop onto the wagon to hide.

I do not see how spectrum as pro-town would've put a vote like that on a time like this.

sorry, I meant "to prove she's not distancing"

well, even though I'm still certain BA is scum, I'd be willing to vote: spectrumvoid to see where things go.

More assuredness that I am scum, and instantly draws an SV-BA line, despite what he said earlier about trying to direct lynches for the next day being scummy. This was in itself extremely hasty, as scummy as SV's vote was. You also use this to further push the case of myself being scum, simply because SV voted me and SV has to be scum with a vote like that. Nevermind the fact that you didn't have sure convictions yet were just as quick to place a third vote (albiet, unvoting and threatening to hammer).

So far we've lasted a while with three votes, and Patrick and I have both posted without hammering. (so far I have Lowell, Sage and spectrum as the three votes)

We also have CTD about to give input on his initial read.

So um. yeah?

Pushing for the lynch, yet not wanting to be the one to do the hammering. A bit of WIFOM with the "3 votes, and Patrick and I haven't hammered!" sentiment. Trying to set yourself up to be able to hammer later is the tone which this rang of to me.

unvote: spectrumvoid

I never voted you to try to lynch you, I was only putting a vote to see what types of reactions I could get from you and others.

In other words, it was an unvote to put me back on the right track and ready myself for future necessary action.

Buddying up? Same thing you're accusing me of, is done right here. Hell, same thing I've been accused of all game you're doing right here with the spectrum vote. I'm all for the "vote to get impressions" but you have to at least have some kind of conviction behind it. Not sure I understand the "ready myself for future necessary action". I presume you meant to hammer me? If this is what you meant then you're further settng yourself up to be the one to hammer without much suspicion on you.

CTD POSTS BEFORE THE NEXT POST, WITH THIS LIST OF SUSPICION WITH PABLITO ON TOP:

Hurry up CTD, wake up and post.

I'm gonna drop the hammer once you do so.

Whoah whoah whoah whoah. All of the sudden you must lynch me immediately following CTD's post. Don't want that wagon to die down. But wait, whats this!!!

Well, I'm not going to wait until CTD posts anymore. But I will at least give BA the chance to claim if he is going to.

Now why the hell would I claim under that? You've already decided to hammer me, just a matter of waiting for me to post. Hell, for awhile it wasn't even a matter of waiting for me to post. Given the actions you had taken up to this point it was clear you were setting up for a "BULLSHIT!" call on any claim I would make then would hammer immediately. It is what you've been building up for the previous 10 posts. As I stated in a later post, there is NO reason not to wait for CTD to make his post, except that you were afraid you'd lose the lynch for the day. This is supported by all of the joking about getting this game to be the longest D1 ever. Why would you hold that stance but once suspicion is on you and moving away from me it is a "HAMMER NOW!" mentality.

SV UNVOTES AS I ASKED, THEN PABLITO:

Well, to place pressure back on spectrum/BA pair, let's vote: BA I would've waited but I have no patience for you slacker scum.

Realising the chance to draw the line once again, you do, and you place the third vote on me hoping someone else will hammer before CTD's post.

The fact that BA wanted to wait until after CTD posted to me was telling. If you're on the line and know that a hammer is inevitable, why bother wait until later unless you know you're scum? I don't see how BA could put a level of confidence in the town that he knew that he wouldn't be lynched. As much as we've discussed everything and that we know each other's voting pattern in this game, I would never feel confident at three votes that I would get a "final post" out before twilight.

BA's defenses in light of his wagon is extremely suspicious. To me, it's not necessarily the argument that started against him, but the way he's been fairly detached from his agressors and the way he lacked a passion of defense is scummy. I feel more confident that BA is scum by the way he reacted to his bandwagon and also how others have reacted to the wagon.

And to somewhat answer CTD's point on me regarding spectrumvoid - she was always just kinda there for me. She never stood out, but I believe I pointed out earlier that it's rare for me to not suspect her in any given game - so that was something of interest.

And to somewhat answer CTD's point on me regarding BA. I've noticed that BA has often defended me and may be guilty of trying to "buddy up" to me (which I probably did as well). Therefore the viewpoint I have had on BA has always been biased. I tended to think he was town because he and I shared similar viewpoints. Once I started to realize that perhaps I was being used and that BA may have been using me as a shield, I found it difficult to muster up an explicit argument against him. Mainly because if I found anything suspect, it would both incriminate and embarass me at the same time - for foolishly finding him as pro-town.

But I think it's clear that I've had a list of people going the entire game and I have gone through everyone (a tell in itself perhaps) - and that it has been a process of elimination. Once I drop a suspect, I pick up a new one and it has gone through until I've pretty much cycled through everyone. Yeah, it looks scummy, but I admit that it's actually what I've done.

Frustration. Lots of frustration in this post. Falls back on the play style excuse which he is accusing me of using in his own defense, stating that he cycles through people until he finds one he likes.

I don't understand the sentiment that I haven't attempted to defend myself against the wagon. You had this in another post as well. I defended myself the entire thread against the same things. I think most of the people in the game acknowledge that I made any defence there was to be made, but the ultimate reality was that they found it scummy. For you to say that I didn't try to defend myself is confusing and surprising, and sounds like you may just be looking for more reasons to press the attack.

There goes progress.

I hate this game, unvote, vote: pablito I don't care. I'll read later and make an actual worthwhile post.

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: 391

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

unvote I'm doing it because this game thoroughly annoys me now.

Could we at least force BA to claim and then have gotten off of him? That's a lot of where my frustration lies right now. It's that immediately after CTD posts and not one moment sooner everyone drops likes flies off the wagon. I suspect one person did it out of genuine thought but that someone if s/he was scum did it prior to BA's post to muddle things up. I haven't even bothered to look at everyone's subsequent unvote posts so I couldn't even bother make a distinction yet.

But right now we got so close to having a legitimate wagon, and it stayed for how many days? and everything crumbles and everyone moves in separate directions just because of one post.

I don't get why everyone was so willing to keep BA at three votes for so long and suddenly these "new events" change everything. My insistence to hammer and vote BA was nothing new - so that's bullshit. CTD's stance was not new. Some of the points were good and were new, but CTD was clearly not pro-lynch-BA and I feel aggravated that people would be willing to drop the wagon after it. I feel that an honest townie would take CTD's comments in stride, but also start to doubt thinks and unvote BECAUSE they wanted to take extra time with things. I do not feel like an honest townie would take CTD's comments in stride, drop the wagon and immediately know who to target next.

I feel Lowell is townie because his subsequent unvote then vote followed his logistical progression - it is something that he has supported before.

But you Sage - I question why you suddenly move toward me if you had seen that I had been clamoring for the BA hammer for a whole week now. What the hell changed, because I don't feel that whatever changed was not significant enough to warrant the quick vote/unvote. The unvote was justified, but I don't get how you were so swayed to vote so quickly as well. And I admit, I didn't even bother read everyone's posts, but I think the fact that you guys vote and unvoted sent enough of a message to me to know some intentions.

I completely felt that you were town Sage, but I begin to doubt you again. But I know better than to reignite my attack on you because I remember removing you from doubt so well before, that I shouldn't go back to that argument.

Sigh. Does that better explain my stance than the foolish self-vote? Because I'm feeling better having said what I had and feel that I made it clear.

More frustration, frustration, frustration. After all of that eagerness to hammer the attention is starting to go away and you're giving off nothing more than a frustrated tone. You have to see why you look extremely scummy at this point.

Anyways, I'm freezing and my fingers are about to fall off from typing on a keyboard which I dont usually use, so I'll leave this at that and do the final couple posts later if I find them terribly important. The ultimate reason that I'm suspecting Pablito now is because of how he handled the attempt to lynch myself, and his reactions following CTD's post. He was quick on the wagon, ready and willing to hammer, and frustrated when the wagon died down after having been so close.

[Brutal Assassin]

Unvote, Vote SpectrumVoid

Consider this a counter-claim. Am a bit surprised she claimed, to be honest, as I thought that scum would wait to counter-claim whatever I said. That said, SV hasn't gotten much pressure all game so I guess she cracked under pressure and thought she was at a point where she had to claim.

[Brutal Assassin]

Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone!

[Brutal Assassin]

I'm not sure where to start. The strangest thing happened just recently, and I find that it may answer some of your questions.

It was Christmas Eve around 9 PM when it happened. I heard some commotion outside my front door and went over to inspect what the noises were. I opened the door and sure enough, there stood 2 martians with strange looking guns. They fired, and froze me in place instantly. Surrounding me, they took me away and loaded me onto their large, saucer shaped craft. After about an hour, the freeze wore off and I found myself in a cozy jail cell aboard the martian ship. A martian by the name of Voldar tells me in perfect English: "We're here to kidnap Santa Clause. This will help you co-operate."

He placed a strange cap on the top of my head and posted an investibot at the front door of the cell to keep watch. It was as if I was in a trance of some sort. In my cell was a computer hooked up to the internet. Bored, I wound up on Mafiascum, in a complete trance due to the mind control device. After reading Spectrums claim, I glanced over at the guard at the door only to notice that it was a MALE INVESTIBOT! Spectrum could simply NOT be the investibot as SHE claimed, for it was quite obviously male! To avoid the town from being fooled, I decided to counter claim the faker, despite being a simple normbot myself.

Imagine my surprise yesterday as I read that Spectrum was indeed the investibot!

Damn unisex bot alloys

[Brutal Assassin]

I take it no-one is buying my martian investibot theory?

[Brutal Assassin]

List of Suspicions

(From highest to least)

SpectrumVoid
Mikanoff
Lowell
Everyone else

Pretty sure one of those first 3 is scum.

The real criminals here are those damn martians.

[Brutal Assassin]

k, lets go ahead and end this day. Considering we had the longest day 1 EVAR, you'd think that today would be an easy lynch considering that the martians framed me.

Vote BA

[Brutal Assassin]

Only in this game can we make a sure-fire lynch last 4 pages. Lol, pretty interesting reads from my perspective though.

But I am by no means giving up, considering starting a "Lynch the Martians" campaign to get the correct criminals put away.

Btw, cop results for last night were that SpectrumVoid was indeed innocent! Wow!

[Brutal Assassin]

Don't be silly Patrick, you're my scumbuddy!

((OOOoooooo, something for everyone to read into to stretch this day longer.))

[Brutal Assassin]

Impossible! I'm the doc!

Unvote, Vote Pablito

Consider this a counter claim.

[Brutal Assassin]

^^^ What I'm gathering from that is that you guys are planning on lynching me then? Wtf? Without any discussion about it?

[Brutal Assassin]

*SV's ghost flits around the room*

And is abducted by a yellow beam from the sky.

Told you so.

[Brutal Assassin]

Wouldn't it blow you guys away if Short4Now was scum with me? That would have been ridiculously well played on our parts.

Discuss.

[Brutal Assassin]

((Pushing for longest day 2 with a confirmed Guilty in a Newbie game. I think that we've got a shot at this record too. SHATTER THEM ALL!!!))

[Brutal Assassin]

lol....^^^^

[Brutal Assassin]

*Throws partner under the bus*

[Brutal Assassin]

I resent that statement, Pablito! I am not a loose cannon! I really am a peaceful person.

[Brutal Assassin]

Are you suggesting that I am misguiding you?

What false accusations have I made? Are you a martian lover?

I'd like these questions answered before the end of day 2.

[Brutal Assassin]

I say we lynch CTD for inactivity. No point finding a replacement into a newbie game this far in.

[Brutal Assassin]

Unvote, Vote Pablito

I can't believe you can possibly think I'm scum! I'm the most pro-town person here!!!!

Why would you lynch your cop?

[Brutal Assassin]

You're suggesting that anything I say is being taken seriously right now?

Pablito is my scum partner! No, wait, it is Sage! Wait, wait, well played Patrick!!! Expert performance!!!

CTD lurker-scum, good work on getting them to just end the day!!!

I mean come on. lol

[Brutal Assassin]

Unvote, Vote SV

False cop claiming scum!

[Brutal Assassin]

I'll help.

Unvote, Vote BA[/u]

[Brutal Assassin]

Good game everyone.

I based my entire angle this game on messing with Short4Now, knowing enough about Mikanoff to know that he tends not to have extremely strong suspicions. Was hoping to make a scum-pair facade which would end in a S4N lynch. And I knew Short4Now would slip up enough (after his first couple posts) that it wouldn't make me look entirely over-eager. Also knew a LOT about Pablito and knew I could use my speed game playstyles (which were absolutely over the top) to my advantage.

Only problem with all of this was the replacements. Patrick and Lowell replaced in and I instantly went from no suspicions to the chopping block. Thank god CTD came in and let me buy enough time to out the cop. If it wasn't for the replacements day 1 would have gone longer and I could have voiced Sage suspicions.

Was a lot of fun. Certainly was NOT a newbie game.