Newbie #315 - Trouble in New New Jersey (Game Over!)

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Confirm!

[Hemisphere Dancer]

If Hemisphere Dancer (who has not said anything yet besides confirmation) also votes for me, it stands to reason that the two summies just waited until some poor sucker got two votes (and made himself suspicious through other means) and then just bandwagon him to be burned at the stake...

therefore:

unvote: Vulcanraven

and

Vote: Hemisphere Dancer

Um... tell me again why you're voting for me? Because I don't understand your reasoning here... I haven't voted yet, so I'm automatically scum?

Randomvote: M4yhem

and a

Fat FOS: Dr. Doom

for starting off with a useless semi-roleclaim as his

first non-confirm post

and just voting me for... well, reasons I don't quite get yet.

Hey Doomie, have you played Mafia much? Just out of curiousity, because that didn't seem very well-thought-out.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

MMkay,

unFOS Dr. Doom

. Jeebus, I've played Meatworld Mafia and we've had games that lasted maybe ten minutes. With nine people playing. Generally MafiaScum games last a lot longer- like M4yhem said, weeks. Months. Looong games.

Although the early townie claim does seem suspicious, I realize you're nervous. :3 I nearly had a heart attack my first game... fell for a false cop claim in the end and lost it for the town, too. v.v But once you realize most of the people on here don't bite, it's a lot of fun!

And what you're referring to as changing your vote is, I believe, being wishy-washy. Been accused of that before. D: Really it's lots of vote-changing for crappy reasons or just to follow a bandwagon. I can't really tell if your unvote of me counts as being wishy-washy as I'm a little biased in this particular case!

And blahgo, if you're town, don't offer to change your vote just because it's ticked someone off. That makes it easy for scum to influence your vote, just by acting angry.

And besides, you're definately going to tick someone off by voting to lynch them. That's a given.

And now I don't remember the point I was trying to make with this post. Crap. Lessee.

I want some input from AC. He basically says "Hi, Dr. Doom's scummy, bye." And that's that. VR did about the same thing. (Granted, I did too, but here's my input!)

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Yeah. WIFOM.

But he's a newbie in a newbie game. I give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Haha, WIFOM again!

I'm not trying to influnce your vote; vote whomever you want. If you find my actions scummy, vote me. If you still find Doomie scummy, vote him. If you think M4yhem is scummy, vote him. Which reminds me;

unrandomvote:M4yhem

because I think we've moved on to strategic votes now.

And my defense: I'm a more experienced newbie that's trying her darndest not to make as many mistakes this game. Newbie games are more for teaching and learning; that's what I'm trying to do. ^-^ Teach AND learn. Mostly learn. D:

[Hemisphere Dancer]

I think I get it.

It sounded kinda like a pre-emptive OMGUS at the beginning.

Anyway, instead of "I'm voting HD because she might hammer me" it would probably have been better to have said "If HD hammers me, that's scummy." or something along those lines, to get your point across.

A little redundant, though, since a page 1 or 2 hammer is VERY bad for the town and most of the time the hammerer would be under scrutiny the next day anyway. Unless you were scum. Then I think it depends on the players. Personally, I don't know. Haven't experienced that particular situation before.

But yeah. Wouldn't really have mattered since you weren't (then) in a position where you'd be hammered.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Okay, I think I understand too.

Game's slowing down a little, I suggest someone (but only one person) votes for Blahgo.

Mm... I'm not really feeling that. In fact, well, not too many posts ago you were saying you didn't want a lynch until at least page 6, and now you're calling for someone else to put blahgo at Lynch -1. I understand that you want the info, but I don't want to risk a lynch on page 3 without much information.

However, blahgo, with the threat of a Lynch -1 and the possibility of a lynch, you should do something to protect yourself IMHO. A claim, maybe?

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Oh. And ICs? I'm still a newbie myself, so if I've misled any other newbies, feel free to tell them the smarter way to go. I'm open to larnin' too.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Oh. Ouch. Run-on of d00m there.

Decent defense of a nonclaim, although I believe "It's too early to claim" would have been simpler and just as effective.

Although I'm not getting this, because what you're saying is also hinting at your having a powerrole, I believe, and that's generally not a good thing to hint at this early. It'll get you either lynched (under suspicion of being rolefishing scum) or nightkilled (under suspicion of actually being doc/cop), depending on how suspicious you look.

And I realized shortly after my post that asking for a claim on page two was ever-so-slightly stupid. Although it certainly would have been interesting.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Also not liking that powerrole mention. Dont really see how scum could come up with a better claim either, as we know exactly which potential roles there are in the game.

t.b.h. I don't see how you can be happy with lynching Doom (albeit after some more info) when you are basing your vote on the fact that he said he was innocent in his first post. As for defending him, I see it more as attacking your actions so far ...

I'm not entirely sure who this is directed at?

Hemi- You say that blahgo is not scummy enough to vote for but then you suggest he claim; there's a clear contradiction there. If Blahgo is not scummy enough to vote for, there is no way you can be anything other than against a claim.

Claiming is a last resort, which should only happen after the person has defended himself/herself as well as they can but is still in imminant danger of lynch.

I'm not sure if you are fishing or if you're just not thinking too hard about what you say, but you have this disarming honesty about you, so I'll leave it for now.

I'm still trying to get a handle on the whole idea of claiming. You know, what info you can get from it. It's a given that most people will claim vanilla just to cover their hides, be they scum, powerrole, or actually vanilla. If someone could direct me to somewhere that can explain it, that would be awesome.

For the most part, I was treating it as if blahgo already had a third vote on him- since you were calling for one- and it was sort of a knee-jerk reaction to a possible lynch -1. Kinda dumb to use a tactic you don't really have the hang of yet, I know. I said I realized it was stupid. ^^;

And quite frankly, I'd love to know what powerroles we've got in this game. C9 is a little less nerve-wracking than one where you're totally in the dark, but still. It would be great if the town had some backup. (not pushing for a claim in this case; just lettin' ya'll know my opinion.)

Now, uh, I've got to keep watching to see if anything jumps out at me, but it would be great if AC would post more often. Most of his stuff is one-liners, and he's had an unvote without an explanation, I believe (looking at the recent posts in the thingy on the bottom of the page here).

[Hemisphere Dancer]

im jsut unvoting until further evidence can be brought up.

Actually, he does give a reason for his unvote. Not a very good one in my book- although my random unvote wasn't much better, at least I had a viable reason- soooo I'm thinkin' AC looks scummy. So a

FOS:AC

that might turn into a vote if I don't see some input.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Mmm, lists. Yummeh.

blahgo: Scummyish. A few red flags, but it could be chalked up to being a newbie. However, if we don't have some new information by page 5 or 6, I'd be content with a blahgo lynch. But I'm still waiting for info.

M4yhem: You actually seem a little scummy to me, calling for the third vote on blahgo and telling me not to trust the ICs (helpful, yes, thank you. But also makes me wonder if there's some deeper reason I shouldn't trust you, yanno?)

Dr Doom: I'm seeing newbie here, but I can't help but wonder if his scumminess is actually scumminess as well. It makes my brain hurt.

ac1983fan: Post. Post or I will stalk you. Lurking scum?

VulcanRaven and riktus: I'm having trouble getting anything about you two. I gotta pay more attention.

Me: Hi.

Huh, I think my impressions coincide with riktus's too much. D: But that's what I see, anyway.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

...ooh, wow, look at the input.

Jeebus, AC. Make us wait all weekend, why don't you.

I give up.

vote:AC

for lurking. Maybe a little heat will inspire activity.

Seriously, AC, you've got to post. With nothing for us to go on, you look horribly suspicious. Lurking can be attributed to newbieness, but my

god

...

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Hemi: Im sure you are town, or a really good Scumplayer who deserves the win then. You putting pressure on ac now seemed a bit strange to me, but otoh you opposed putting pressure on blahgo back on page 2, so I dont think you are scum.

I'm just getting irritated at the incredible lack of input. It's shark week for me, so I tend to get irritated easier than usual. D:

Just out of curiosity, are there any other girls playing? xD

Oh, and Doomie, where does your name come from?

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Hemi- How do you play as scum or, if you’ve never tried it, how would you play?

I've only been scum in one game, and I was lynched day 1 after a lucky investigation on a night start, so I'm not the best example of scummary. I think generally I wouldn't change my playing style at all, since that's the first glaring clue that something is different. Except right now I'm still trying to FIND my playing style, so it's CONSTANTLY changing, at least between games. Probably not very helpful, right? By the way, why did you ask?

What’s a ‘shark week’? Or do I not want to know?

One of those female issues you hear so much about. xD

No comment on the OMGUS vote, but I'm not shifting

my

vote unless I get some further information from AC.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

I'm not exactly sure how scummy M4yhem is, because he was confirmed vanilla in 101 Mph and was still lynched for acting scummy. Um, just my thoughts there.

And I'm not sure who is scum because at this point

everyone

looks scummy. Heck, I look scummy. I could even call my over-honesty as scummy and campaign for a lynch on myself. Granted, I could also explain it- I'm trying not to be so much of a lurker, so I have to say near about anything that comes to mind. :3

D: Man. M4yhem, I really AM getting paranoid. Ouch. I blame you.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Um, thanks for the warning, M4yhem, but wouldn't that count as buddying up to someone, even if you're being helpful?

...and here I am contradicting myself, and trying to be helpful. D:

Just out of curiosity, but I find it odd that even though I can see plenty of scummy points in my posts, not many people are picking up on it. Am I just one of the least-scummy people here?

And for the record, my top three of scummy is blahgo, Dr. Doom, and acwhatever, with M4yhem coming in pretty close.

Still watching, though. D: This seems to be my MO for the game.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

*SIGHS* if i ask questions, i will be considered scummy. if i try to act town, i become "scummy". no matter what i do, im scummy for one reason or another.

I've made that argument before, mostly just to get people to back off and leave me alone. All in all, it's just an excuse not to post. Don't use it; it doesn't work; it makes your case worse. It's almost like a red flag saying, "Hey! Getting worked up over little things! I break under pressure!" Not good for you.

Besides, M4yhem's vote only put you at two votes. That's not a case for "I'm scummy no matter what." Using that as an excuse to lurk makes you look like a drama queen, and beyond that, possible scum.

(And fyi, lurking is

not

acting town. It's lurking.)

(Also, for the record, playing Phoenix Wright makes Mafia so much more fun... </random> :3)

[Hemisphere Dancer]

AC, from what I know of M4yhem... that's his play style. I think I mentioned earlier how the cop got an innocent result on him and we

still

lynched him for acting scummy.

But yeah, I guess I should be more involved. Since I've got a little free time, as I'm home because I feel like crap, I'll go through every post again. :3 Make notes.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Actually, lurking in my book is just not posting, whether you're paying attention or not.

Oh, and for future reference- I'm not sure how often I'll be able to get on for a while, as my stepdad's gone a little militant about our computer. I'll be on whenever I can be, which would hopefully be at least once a day.

And I didn't get to do the re-read... I kinda took a nap instead. D: I still don't feel to great. I love random unexplainable illnesses. They're so fun.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Crud. I forgot there was a page five...

Welcome to the game, BillyTwilight!

And ac's unwillingness to answer any questions looks

very

suspicious.

Also, it's a common mistake to "not post unless I have something to say." That's also lurking; something I'm trying to break myself of. I'm not advocating senseless spam, but comment on anything that needs commenting, whether it's been touch on before already.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Protecting yiour scumbuddy here, are you? Just kidding (or am I?)...

I could argue the same for you and ac, considering your last post.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Well, what would you say if i was a coworker at your office, and i jsut came up to you and asking random questions.

...I can tell you this much, that is a

totally

different situation. This is a game of Mafia, not a day at work. Questions are

expected

, random or no. A question that may mean nothing to you could have a lot of meaning for another player.

You reeeeally need to get used to random questions if you're playing Mafia. Seriously.

And also, generally, one or two players in a game tend to be pushy. They could be more experienced, they could have information that the town doesn't, etc. It could just be their playstyle. But pushy people? A fact of Mafia. It's gonna happen. Doesn't automatically make people scum.

(See? See? I'm trying to contribute! Thanks for the get-wells, too, ya'll. Still not too great, but it's bearable.)

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Oh. Hi. BT managed to post before me!

I guess I could go ahead and comment on things related to myself?

I get a slightly lurkish-by-way-of-posting vibe from Hemi. She seems to be trying to stay out of the spotlight but maintain a presence in order to avoid a lurking fos.

Yeah, I've been accused of lurking before... I usually try to observe more than anything else, but I know that's dangerous, whether I'm town or scum. I've been trying to pick up my posting, and be helpful, but this is the first game where I've actively tried not lurking, so I'm working out the kinks.

Currently her vote against AC is mostly due to his early lurking and she hasn't really qualified that vote with anything new since AC has been posting more regularly, and I feel that AC has given her ammunition to maintain her vote, imo.

I was about to make a post about that, too. But my vote was originally on him due to the lurking, but now that he's started playing more I haven't seen a reason to remove my vote from him. I'll make a post about this in a bit.

Her early call for a role claim really surprised me, especially given that everyone seemed to be wanting to wait for 4 or 5 more pages to do the first lynch.

Um... yeah. About that. I still haven't quite grasped the logic behind a roleclaim, and I remember someone once asking for a claim at Lynch -1. Actually, several someones. It was mostly in the hope that more experienced people could glean some information from it. Why I didn't wait for someone else to ask, I dunno. But is there a wiki page about roleclaims?

[Hemisphere Dancer]

EBWOP

*

Mine

was mostly in the hope that more experienced people, etc, etc.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

soo... Dr.Doom, why the emphasis on you being town? that's very scummy, you know. Very scummy. Scummy enough to cause a vote:Dr.Doom from me.

Um, why the emphasis on him being scum? Either trying to tell a scumbuddy to watch what he says, or trying to cast blame on Dr. Doom. I'm betting on the former.

well, i guess he could be townie making newb mistakes.... or he could be mafia pretending to be a townie making newb mistakes

Wifom wifom wifom.

woops, i ment to unvote

Unvoting without a reason. Scummy.

nothing, im jsut unvoting until further evidence can be brought up.

Backing up an unvote with a

scummy

reason. "Until further evidence can be brought up" is just like saying, "Crap, I didn't mean to be so obvious with my bandwagon. Let's try that again."

(...) there's a clear contradiction there (...)

Absolutely off-subject, but this is awesome. I'm a Phoenix Wright fan, sooo... yeah.

Post 65, ac says he'll post Monday.

Post 70, he OMGUS voted me.

Post 78, he agreed with VR and Riktus that M4yhem was "the scummiest." Except at that point, he wasn't. Those quotes weren't saying he was

the scummiest

, just that he

was scummy

.

I OMGUS whether or not I am scum. and anway, as i said, it was a temp vote. vote:M4yhem. Sorry if you are town, which I doubt.

I'm a little disturbed at why I didn't catch this. "Sorry if you are town, which I doubt." That just doesn't sit right with me. This is almost like insurance... in case we did lynch M4yhem, and he was town.

The comment about his OMGUS voting, too, is strange. There technically is no point in OMGUS voting... and it's more of a scummy response than a town response. Why would a townie have a reason to vote for someone who voted them? I mean, "X is scummy because s/he (insert action here), so my vote is on X." is better than "X voted me, that's scummy, so I'm voting X." If their vote on you is the only reason you're voting... uh... why did you vote in the first place?

Post 79: Dr. Doom also votes M4yhem. The post directly after ac's... hmm.

Post 81: Dr. Doom unvotes because he "didn't notice that (his) was the third vote." Uh... covering his butt, maybe?

Post 84: Dr. Doom fails to correctly count to six. This could be a distraction tactic, or it could be problems with basic arithmatic. I honestly don't know, but its worth mentioning.

[quote="ac, post 91]*SIGHS* if i ask questions, i will be considered scummy. if i try to act town, i become "scummy". no matter what i do, im scummy for one reason or another. [/quote]

Mentioned this already, but I've used this when I wanted people to, essentially, just get off my ass about things. Quite frankly I find this pretty dang scummy, as it is

also

an appeal to emotion like what Dr. Doom pointed out in M4yhem's post... if it's scummy pertaining to M4yhem, why wouldn't it be scummy in ac's case as well?

Okay, fine.
M4yhem: Your attitude seems very scummy and pushy. is this jsut the way you play?
Blahgo: (if you ever come back) Why did you disapear?
Response to M4yhem: I generally have a hard time making my own explainations, so i borrow others thoughts and restate them. Basically, i think you're scummy because you're pushy. vote stands.

M4yhem is scummy because he is pushy. Um, that's a personality trait, not a scumtell. At least in my book. And if that's the only thing you can find that makes M4yhem look scummy, look harder. That isn't very good evidence.

i wasn't lurking. I wasn't even paying attention to the game. lurking is paying attention but not posting, isn't it? OMGUSing doesn't help the town, but its just what i do. I dont know if most people find it scummy, but i find asking qustions for no reason other than to gather information pretty suspicious. so far, i haven't found anything to question.

If OMGUSing doesn't help the town, why do it? Generally if something doesn't

help

the town, it

hurts

the town.

And generally you ask questions to gather information. Flimsy argument, doesn't hold water. And if you haven't found anything to question, you seriously need to look harder.

If somebody did something questionable, i would question it.

This is Mafia. Everyone's doing questionable stuff. Question them.

Acting town as in playing the game like town. Becuase, whether or not i am scum or town, i have to play the as town.
the quote... damn, i screwed that up. I was trying to quote something from you... but i ended up quoting vulcanraven twice... shit.

In reference to the quote, it's rather obvious that he quoted VR twice. However, he [i[didn't answer Riktus's question[/i].

Oh-and what exactly were you quoting from me? - reference to post 78

This question. I'd personally like the answer to it as well.

I believe he's deliberately avoiding answering it.

Post 107, Dr. Doom dredges up an old comment of mine to try and implicate me. I was using metagame experience to answer ac's question, just for truth's sake.

Post 108, Dr. Doom defends ac against me, using "he is new" as an excuse. I was willing to be lenient a week or two ago, but not so much any more. The game is getting a little more serious, you know?

I dont like pushy town. you seem liek scum by being pushy to me.

Like I said earlier, pushy is more of a personality/playstyle than it is a scumtell. He's grasping at straws.

Well, what would you say if i was a coworker at your office, and i jsut came up to you and asking random questions.

Using a completely unrelated example to defend himself... doesn't make any sense. Office=/=Mafia game.

...loong...

Anyway, all I've got to say about this is that I feel I have good reason to suspect ac as scum, and beyond that I'm suspicious that Dr. Doom is his scumbuddy. Just my thoughts, but ac is really, really coming across as scummy to me. Dr. Doom's defending him makes him seem scummy as well.

(oh, and I defend myself here:)

The only problem I have with this is that blahgo was being so wishy washy at the time that calling for a role claim might have immediately been followed by him doing just that. Given that whatever his claim might have been would have been a victory for scum (even a vanilla claim would have given the scum one person less to worry about for a NK) and given that you ARE a more experienced player, it really raises my brows.

Erm... I kinda didn't think of that particular angle, to be honest. I did realize afterward that asking for the claim was stupid, mostly because it made me look suspicious, but I wasn't sure if he'd actually claim. I was sort of expecting him to say it was too early, anyway.

But like I said, and I doubt you even paid attention to this part, I don't have a full grasp of the concept of claiming. Just because I'm more experienced doesn't automatically make me an expert in all things Mafia... I'm still in here as a newbie,

because

I'm still learning. I've asked twice already for some help on the subject of claiming... ac's response immediately after yours doesn't help at all, and even comes across as pretty much just buddying up to you (BT). If someone could direct me

somewhere

that I can learn, such as a wiki page or something, that would be great. If an IC could explain it to me, that would be great, too.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

(...) Hemi's newfound crusade against AC makes me a little bit nervous (...)

Haha, well, I figure we're approaching page 6, right? And getting closer to a good time to lynch. And since a no-lynch is generally bad for the town, we've got to lynch someone. Since AC is coming off as scummy to me, I figure, he's the best choice for a lynch in my book. Since only myself and M4yhem are voting for him, I needed to convince at least two other players that ac is the best candidate for lynch.

While I'm not 100% sure that ac is scum, he's scummy enough for me to call for him as our Day 1 lynch. Unless some stronger evidence is presented, my vote isn't changing.

*bows*

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Ooh, page six. :3 Oh, the irony.

Anyway, I forgot to mention in my last post- Thanks, Riktus, for the insight about claiming. I'll remember that. And if M4yhem has anything to add later, I'll listen then, too. :3

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Ugh, ac's constant avoidance is really getting on my nerves.

Man, I just made a three- or four-page post attacking you from all angles, and you ignore it? Are you not even interested in defending yourself against me?

Hemi- What is it in particular you want to know about roleclaims?

Well, sort of what it means. I mean, you know, default claim is vanilla- whether you're actually vanilla, scum trying to stay alive, or powerrole trying to keep out of the scum's radar. Although I know some powerroles are best claimed before they're lynched. What information can you get from it?

[Hemisphere Dancer]

if it will take a lynch to convince you im not scum, then fine.

unvote vote:ac1983fan

Appeal to emotion. Scummy.

Besides, a self-vote is a bad idea no matter what side you're on. If you're town, you're contributing to the death of a townie that you

know

isn't scum. If you're scum, it's just stupid.

However, go ahead and vote yourself. That's one less person I've got to convince to vote you.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Ac, some of my points were directed at Dr. Doom and not you; I don't know exactly which ones you're talking about. Quote tags are really simple to use... and much easier to read, too. Could you please use them?

Also; have a good time, Riktus! :3

[Hemisphere Dancer]

M4yhem, I'm perfectly ready to lynch AC. Except, yanno, you and I seem to be the only ones who think he's scummy enough to lynch.

By the way, I'm still trying to figure out what responses go where with ac's response to my longpost-o-d00m. I made a lot more than 12 points- somewhere around 20 or so, I believe- so I STILL don't know what goes with what. It's confusing me.

Although I did find this:

point number six: why is everything i say to convince everyone i am town considered an "appeal for emotion" by you... seriously...

Interesting. I've only ever called one thing he says as an appeal to emotion, and it's only happened one time before that in this game, if any (I can't izzackly remember, but it ain't much.). Why would he be making such a big deal over this?

M4yhem's been called on appealing to emotion more than he has. There's been a whole discussion over it.

So, Ac, you want me to change my vote? Respond to my post in a way I can understand. Um... once you get back, of course. There's a quote button for a reason! :3

(By the way, I won't be on the 9th or 10th myself. School trip.)

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Quoting to refresh memories.

soo... Dr.Doom, why the emphasis on you being town? that's very scummy, you know. Very scummy. Scummy enough to cause a vote:Dr.Doom from me.

Um, why the emphasis on him being scum? Either trying to tell a scumbuddy to watch what he says, or trying to cast blame on Dr. Doom. I'm betting on the former.

well, i guess he could be townie making newb mistakes.... or he could be mafia pretending to be a townie making newb mistakes

Wifom wifom wifom.

woops, i ment to unvote

Unvoting without a reason. Scummy.

nothing, im jsut unvoting until further evidence can be brought up.

Backing up an unvote with a

scummy

reason. "Until further evidence can be brought up" is just like saying, "Crap, I didn't mean to be so obvious with my bandwagon. Let's try that again."

(...) there's a clear contradiction there (...)

Absolutely off-subject, but this is awesome. I'm a Phoenix Wright fan, sooo... yeah.

Post 65, ac says he'll post Monday.

Post 70, he OMGUS voted me.

Post 78, he agreed with VR and Riktus that M4yhem was "the scummiest." Except at that point, he wasn't. Those quotes weren't saying he was

the scummiest

, just that he

was scummy

.

I OMGUS whether or not I am scum. and anway, as i said, it was a temp vote. vote:M4yhem. Sorry if you are town, which I doubt.

I'm a little disturbed at why I didn't catch this. "Sorry if you are town, which I doubt." That just doesn't sit right with me. This is almost like insurance... in case we did lynch M4yhem, and he was town.

The comment about his OMGUS voting, too, is strange. There technically is no point in OMGUS voting... and it's more of a scummy response than a town response. Why would a townie have a reason to vote for someone who voted them? I mean, "X is scummy because s/he (insert action here), so my vote is on X." is better than "X voted me, that's scummy, so I'm voting X." If their vote on you is the only reason you're voting... uh... why did you vote in the first place?

Post 79: Dr. Doom also votes M4yhem. The post directly after ac's... hmm.

Post 81: Dr. Doom unvotes because he "didn't notice that (his) was the third vote." Uh... covering his butt, maybe?

Post 84: Dr. Doom fails to correctly count to six. This could be a distraction tactic, or it could be problems with basic arithmatic. I honestly don't know, but its worth mentioning.

*SIGHS* if i ask questions, i will be considered scummy. if i try to act town, i become "scummy". no matter what i do, im scummy for one reason or another.

Mentioned this already, but I've used this when I wanted people to, essentially, just get off my ass about things. Quite frankly I find this pretty dang scummy, as it is

also

an appeal to emotion like what Dr. Doom pointed out in M4yhem's post... if it's scummy pertaining to M4yhem, why wouldn't it be scummy in ac's case as well?

Okay, fine.
M4yhem: Your attitude seems very scummy and pushy. is this jsut the way you play?
Blahgo: (if you ever come back) Why did you disapear?
Response to M4yhem: I generally have a hard time making my own explainations, so i borrow others thoughts and restate them. Basically, i think you're scummy because you're pushy. vote stands.

M4yhem is scummy because he is pushy. Um, that's a personality trait, not a scumtell. At least in my book. And if that's the only thing you can find that makes M4yhem look scummy, look harder. That isn't very good evidence.

i wasn't lurking. I wasn't even paying attention to the game. lurking is paying attention but not posting, isn't it? OMGUSing doesn't help the town, but its just what i do. I dont know if most people find it scummy, but i find asking qustions for no reason other than to gather information pretty suspicious. so far, i haven't found anything to question.

If OMGUSing doesn't help the town, why do it? Generally if something doesn't

help

the town, it

hurts

the town.

And generally you ask questions to gather information. Flimsy argument, doesn't hold water. And if you haven't found anything to question, you seriously need to look harder.

If somebody did something questionable, i would question it.

This is Mafia. Everyone's doing questionable stuff. Question them.

Acting town as in playing the game like town. Becuase, whether or not i am scum or town, i have to play the as town.
the quote... damn, i screwed that up. I was trying to quote something from you... but i ended up quoting vulcanraven twice... shit.

In reference to the quote, it's rather obvious that he quoted VR twice. However, he [i[didn't answer Riktus's question[/i].

Oh-and what exactly were you quoting from me? - reference to post 78

This question. I'd personally like the answer to it as well.

I believe he's deliberately avoiding answering it.

Post 107, Dr. Doom dredges up an old comment of mine to try and implicate me. I was using metagame experience to answer ac's question, just for truth's sake.

Post 108, Dr. Doom defends ac against me, using "he is new" as an excuse. I was willing to be lenient a week or two ago, but not so much any more. The game is getting a little more serious, you know?

I dont like pushy town. you seem liek scum by being pushy to me.

Like I said earlier, pushy is more of a personality/playstyle than it is a scumtell. He's grasping at straws.

Well, what would you say if i was a coworker at your office, and i jsut came up to you and asking random questions.

Using a completely unrelated example to defend himself... doesn't make any sense. Office=/=Mafia game.

...loong...

Anyway, all I've got to say about this is that I feel I have good reason to suspect ac as scum, and beyond that I'm suspicious that Dr. Doom is his scumbuddy. Just my thoughts, but ac is really, really coming across as scummy to me. Dr. Doom's defending him makes him seem scummy as well.

-snip-

Want ac ded naow plz.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Dangit, I

still

messed up on some formatting. D:

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Hrm, Im a little bit concerned about your crusade against AC, when there was not really much input from Vulcan, Billy and riktus. Of course, of the 4 other people, AC might have been the scummiest, but lynching teh scummiest of the visible players allows the mafia to stay invisible and let the town lynch themselves.

Unless, of course, the scummiest of the visible players is, in actuality, scum. Yes? My crusade against ac is a direct result of how scummy he's coming across as- my aim is to convince the other players that he is scum; all of you are under no obligation to share my convictions. I wouldn't act this strongly if I didn't have what I believe to be a good, solid case, though.

Although, now there have been enough posts by all people (imho) and pressure has been applied to everyone (although I'd be really happy if we could put everyone under pressure some serious time before we lynch - the later we lynch, the more difficult it gets for the mafia to stay calm - thats why "I want ac ded naow" is a hefty scumtell, as is the "well, were approaching page six, so lets git someone!")

Mm, I don't really think so. The former, I was putting my argument into one very short, easy-to-understand sentence. :3 The latter, well, I didn't exactly say that. But what I meant was that I felt like I had scum, and I thought I had waited long enough. What I had was actually a whole lot more evidence than usual for a Day-1-Day-start, so I figured I could act on it. Also, honestly, I'm a little impatient. I don't like waiting when I know what I want to do.

In your long Analysispost, you also implied often that either AC or I is scum (or both). Implyinmg is a mean faulty Logicdevice, because its very hard to detect, but sells the point nonetheless (although sometimes people do find teh conclusion shaky, but for the life of them cant figure what exactly the shaky thing is).

Haha, I think I a little more than "implied" it. I stated plainly that it was my personaly suspicion that you, Dr. Doom, are acfan's scumbuddy. :3

Oh, yeah, and dont rely on Roleclaiming. Its easy for the mafia to fake, and presto: its wifom. And with a clever mafia, you have serious trouble getting out of that wifom, because they can add other layers at will, with a high probability of making teh town believe that a mafiate is the cop.

Mmyeah. I've got to agree here, but it does depend on the Mafia. It takes a lot of logic and a little luck to pull off a successful power-role roleclaim. Vanilla claims, generally, are useless, I believe. I've had this explained to me somewhere, but... a vanilla claim could be scum trying to keep off heat, a powerrole trying to keep from being nightkilled, or a vanilla townie actually truthfully roleclaiming. D: This is why I don't get roleclaiming; if you're vanilla, you are

screwed

.

A possible scenario about Hemi:

At the beginning, most people that posted seemed to trust Hemi (including me), and let that be known. Then, she began her crusade (being assured that the trust of teh others and the general scumminess/strangeness of AC granted her enough protection to not get attacked for attacking AC so much), maybe trying to get the town to lynch a newbie instead of a mafiate. Of course, if Ac would not be scum, she coudl say: Well, but there were really hefty scumtells etc, so maybe she would get away with it. If Ac would be scum, it would be all the better: Everyone would trust her then, and if she played her cards right, could lead the town into a mislynch, get away from that unscathed because she was right with Ac and there really were enough scumtells to lynch Mr. Townspersonplayer, etc, blahblah, and then win the game.
I dont say that that really uis the case, I just say be careful, Hemi might be scum.

You have an amazing imagination, Mr. Wright.

No, really, that's a pretty good plan. And part of it is what I wanted to do: if I don't have to worry about being lynched myself, then I can get down to the point of the game, and that's weeding out scum. I admit that, since we don't know what ac's role is, then I could be wrong. And yes, I'd use that massive mountain of evidence to protect myself, because that is an assload of scumminess. But honestly? I'm pretty sure he's scum.

The only flaw is that you're automatically assuming I'm acting from the position of scum. I admit, this is the point of the game. But if you look at it from the position of Town, the plan works as well. Except as town, I'm convinced that ac and probably Dr. Doom are scum, and I'm campaigning for their lynches with the best interests of the Town in mind.

Teh tells in Detail:

1) Early call for claim

(okay, she defended that and I'll give her the benefit of doubt, so lets cross that out)
1) yearning to reach page six to finally lynch AC
2) starting a crusade on someone without having enough material from the other players

but all in all, Im not thinking shes scum, but Im holding my eye open.

There's only so much you can go on Day 1. Like I've said, I've gotten more off of ac in 1 Day than I have off of other scum in whole games. This could be chalked up to him being a newbie, but seriously, I'm pretty sure I've got scum.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Oh, I actually agree with waiting for AC to post before we lynch him. I know this goes totally against my so-called "crusade," but (1) I'm not heartless, and (2) if he can give good, solid explanations for his actions, I'll rethink my vote.

Also, now, with two players MIA, I also think we should suspend play until at least Saturday. There's not much to go on if the main suspect is absent, yes?

Anyway, my last post tonight, too. I've also got to say that this is already one of the most fun Mafia games I've played. x3

[Hemisphere Dancer]

....I'm not going to ask ac any more questions. I still want a decent defense against my post two pages ago!

Also; BT.

C.) Why you think Dr. Doom looks the most town (I am especially interested in this, since I feel like I have caught Dr. Doom in as close to a lie as I have seen in a mafia game)?

Everyone else: I would appreciate some feedback on question C as well - I feel like Dr. Doom has sort of trapped himself and the only other player to even comment on it has been VR. Am I just blowing his behavior out of proportion?

My input: I don't think he looks the most town. I can't remember if it was you or VR that said it, but my ac/Doom scenario was "too perfect" or something like that. xD

Anyway, I know I'll be under the most scrutiny tomorrow if ac ends up town. That was a chance I was willing to take, because I was as close to sure as I can get that he's scum. :3 Doom's the next one on my list, unless something big comes up.

Also; sorry for not being on the past coupla days. I had a lot of schoolwork, and then a field trip for school. xD

[Hemisphere Dancer]

xD True. None taken.

Considering that it's still day one, with not that much to go on... it wasn't TOO bad. ^-^ But yeah. Little far-fetched.

Also; I can see where Ac might think that it's myself and M4yhem as the scum for this game. I'm going to wait until after he posts why HE thinks we're scumbuddies to say what I think, though. (Imagine that. Making a case against myself.) I don't want him using MY evidence to cover HIS tail.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Sorry for disappearing; I was out of school for a week and had a lot of work to make up.

Um.

v.v I know this is going to seem scummy, but... I still seriously want AC lynched. He's either been ignoring everything we've asked, or giving short, shoddy answers.

It bugs me.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

BT, I completely agree with your argument. I was going to go after Doomie tomorrow, anyway.

But after my longpost-o-d00m against AC, I don't... feel that it's exactly right to be changing my vote from ANOTHER person I'm pretty sure is scum.

Supposing we manage to get AC lynched today, I feel that whether or not AC is scum, Doomie is our next best bet to lynch tomorrow. If we get Doom today- by the way, two more votes on him and I'd hammer him myself, honestly, because it'd be hopeless to keep campaigning for AC's lynch then- then I'll go after AC again tomorrow, unless circumstances change (like he randomly gets NKed... which I highly doubt would happen).

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Crap.

Must withdraw and rethink my strategy.

Dammit, I was

so sure

ac was scum!

But riktus, if it's between myself and VR, might I strongly suggest looking harder at VR?

And at least I chose right in trusting M4yhem. *nod*

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Answering a prod; sorry I haven't been around.

I've got to say that I honestly don't

remember

what was going through my head when I said I'd go for Doom today. I know this makes me seem really scummy, but I can't remember. I remember thinking he was scummy, but that was based mostly on how he was reacting to ac, and my assumption was that ac was scum. Since ac turned up town, the connection I saw between Doom and ac is obviously moot, at least for the time being.

And besides, all my input from here onward is probably going to be me defending myself after calling so strongly for a lynch on ac. I put up a convincing argument that got a townie lynched, so I'm betting anyone else I campaign to lynch will be put through considerably more consideration.

Mm... sometime this week I swear I'll try to make an analysis on the remaining players. Maybe that'll give me a new direction.

[Hemisphere Dancer]

Hemi, this bothers me a lot. In post #214 you explicitly state that you felt Dr. Doom is our best lynch regardless of AC's revealed status. Now you are saying that the whole thought process of going after Doom was based on AC being scum? At the end of day 1 you believed Doom was a good lynch based on Doom's play (or that is what it seemed to me) and not on a specific connection with AC. What changed between then and now that makes you think he was only a good target if AC was scum?

Okay, this is going to cast me in a bad light, but after reading over what I said in post #214- handy, having numbered posts. Not as much quoting having to be done- I think I remember it being something along the lines of me liking the way you were thinking. But still, I said that being completely assured of my rightness in pinning ac as scum. Now that he's town, I don't have any more stable footing, not to mention how much I'll have to question my

own

judgement and instincts from here onward.

So I'll put it plainly: I was completely sure ac was scum. Ac being scum would add to my theory about ac and Doom. The chances of ac

not

being scum in my eyes were just barely high enough to acknowledge their existence, but not nearly high enough to consider as serious. As such, my "whether or not ac is scum" was, in my mind, "once ac is discovered as scum."

It was dumb of me to be so assured of someone's guilt without any concrete evidence/outside information to go on.

And as for me and VR being scumbuddies... well, personally I'm not scum. VR, though, I can't say. Riktus, well, I'll have to look into it. I should have some time on the good computer- this one, frankly, sucks- around Wednesday.