Newbie 524 - Lunchtime Mafia - Game Over!

[CFK]

random vote: Evafreak

(While you may well not be mafia I'm just trying to get the discussion started)

[CFK]

Oh Ha Ha very funny

[CFK]

Evafreak, how can you justify putting somebody at L-1 after they have only made two posts containing little content. Fair enough, I voted for you, but that was only to spark disscussion, I wasn't putting you in any danger of getting lynched. therefore I am going to:

unvote, Vote:Evafreak

I see your action as potential scummy behaiviour as you have acted without any real evidence and may possibly be trying to get a quicklynch with the help of the other mafia. As I have outlined, page 1 is way too early for this sort of behaiviour and my conclusion is that you are acting scummily.

[CFK]

May I ask why you put me at Lynch -1 Evafreak? I would like to know if there was a reason for it or if you just hadn't counted the votes up.

[CFK]

My vote is still squarly on Evafreak, as he put me at lynch-1 for no apparent reason and has not answered my questions as to why he did that (in other words, lurking). However, I am going to FOS: Mikeburnfire for pretty much the same reason as everyone else, that reason being that he is being shady and answering questions with irrelevant answers.

[CFK]

EBYOP:

FOS: Mikeburnfire

Now with bolding

[CFK]

That being the case, why didn't you state your motive for voting when you voted, thereby saving yourself from all the suspicion that you have drawn to yourself by acting shadily. Even if you

are

town, you are still going against our interests by acting shadily.

As a sidenote: Evafreak has not posted in over a week, even though he has been directly questioned about his answers. Very scummy-looking to me as lurking is a classic scumtell.

[CFK]

You just said you voted for me because I was Mafia, now you're saying it's because I had no votes?

Yes.

That being the case, why didn't you state your motive for voting when you voted, thereby saving yourself from all the suspicion that you have drawn to yourself by acting shadily.

What?

I believe he's trying to ask you why you didn't give your latest explanation the first time around.

I was refering to you not giving your latter reason for voting for thekempo when you first voted for him. Why would you deliberately draw suspicion to yourself when you had a decent reason for voting that would have put you in the clear.

To be honest, you are acting so scummily that I would consider changing my vote for you if it was not for the fact that Evafreak is acting even more suspiciously and has not posted in over a week.

Moderator, I reccomend that Evafreak be prodded or replaced

There is also the fact that if I voted for you then you would be at Lynch-1, meaning that if you are just a fellow townie acting scummily then you could be speedlynched. which would be a bit of a downer as we are only on page two and need more time to discuss.

As a sidenote:Only cool poeple play Pokémon, don't get jealous.

[CFK]

Does anybody else find Evafreak very suspicious, or am I jumping to conclusions?

[CFK]

While lurking certainly plays a part in it, it is mainly the fact that he put me at L-1 on page one after I had only made two posts. This to me seems very scummy as what townie would put somebody that had posted twice at L-1 and risk them getting quicklynched, which would cut off Townie discussion for the day.

[CFK]

Fair enough, I may just have jumped to conclusions as I was angered at being put at L-1

[CFK]

Just to let you all know, I will be unavailable from December 24-26, due to spending christmas with my grandparents.

Before I go I am going to withdraw my vote from Evafreak but keep my FOS on Mikeburnfire.

Unvote

FOS:Mikeburnfire

FOS:Evafreak

As the game has progressed from when I initially placed my vote on him, I feel there is no longer any need to vote without a complete belief that somebody is

definitely

guilty. While I still think he is suspicious, I am also to blame for jumping to conclusions. I am keeping my FOS on Mikeburnfire though because he has definitely been acting very scummily and, whether he is town or not, he is being a liability to the town with his irrelevant answers to questions.

[CFK]

okay ive read up on all the stuff and i have meh 2 major candidated for scum

mikeburnfire- acting very suspicious. he wont give any real reasons and seems to be trying to slip out of the his vote which was a mistake for him.

CFK- this isn't OMGUS and CFK isnt super suspicious it's just that he's making a big deal out of something that was a noob mistake. i just want to say that evafreak was obviously not able to respond so i hope u drop your suspicions

Hello everyone - I am back from granny-land.

The reason that I made a big thing out of it was mainly that I was angred to be put at L-1. This made me quite emotional in my attack on Evafreak, but I have abolished my vote on him so that is in the past now. I was also under the impression that he was the IC for this game as I had seen an IC with the same avatar and jumped to conclusions.

I hope everybody had a nice christmas

[CFK]

Defense of what? Being flaky and indifferent? I already told you that I was screwing around. How much clearer can I be?

You may just be saying that you were screwing around as cover for your mess-up earlier. To be honest, even if you are pro-town, you are not acting in the town's interest by behaving in this manner.

FOS:Mikeburnfire

[CFK]

On what basis may I ask?

[CFK]

Your lurking is suspicious.

FOS:thekempo

I agree, if you want to play in this game then actually contribute to it. At the moment, you are a liability to the town because we have no idea of how scummy you are, as you have posted so infrequently (that post was your first since the 15th of december). If you want to get a replacement then that's fine, otherwise please be a little more proactive in your posting.

FOS:thekempo

(for lurking)

My feelings on the phantom are mixed. I'm not sure if he is a mafia who has slipped up, or a townie who has just been a little aggressive in attacking somebody he thought was scum. For now, I'm going to FOS him, though it is by no means permanant, I just want to see what he has to say in his defense.

FOS: thephantom

MOD: Put under the right player's name.

[CFK]

Why? Nothing has gone on since I've made my vote, and I still believe my vote is right. I've got no reason to say anything, so I don't say anything.

Well explain your feelings about Mikeburnfire's defense then and give us your opinion on thephantom, who is also in the limelight right now.

Remember that there are

2

mafia in this game, so even if you are sure that Mikeburnfire is scum, you could still tell us who you think his parter is.

[CFK]

Oh right.

Well, I found it kinda strange how Mike voted for me for no reason, then when I asked him for his reason, he said it was a secret. After further probing, he said it was because I was Mafia. THEN, he changed his mind again and said it was because I didn't have a vote against me.

I don't see what thephantom has done to be put in the limelight. He called Mike on his behaviour 'n that doesn't seem all that bad to me.

So what do you have to say to his argument that he was just screwing around?

[CFK]

Dammit. This happens in literally ALL of my newbie games. I screw around for a few pages and end up getting lynched because newbies can't find anything else suspicious. You'd think I'd have learned by now.

I still say that thephantom is scum, for what it's worth.

Saying "I was screwing around" is not a very good excuse for acting so scummy in the first few pages. Even if you were "screwing around", it is not really in the interests of the town, is it?

As to the phantom, I'm not sure whether he is scum or not. While he has used some logical fallacies, I can't help wondering if he just mis-phrased what he wanted to say, as he has otherwise been very pro-town.

In response to CFK, I have often been in a game where the townies stay on the defensive and the scum pick all the fights, and I have seen that end in a Mafia win most times. On the other side when the town searches out all the scum and attacks them, the town usually ends up finding the mafia. I have nothing to hide, I am not scum, check all my posts and ask about anything that I have said and I will be more than happy to elaborate on your question.

For those that might be wondering, my computer crashed about four days ago and I have finally gotten it back up and running.

This post in particular I found very pro-town. He even invites us to question him and be pro-active, things that a scum would definitely not want. While I am going to FOS him, it is only a minor one and I'm not even sure if he deserves that.

Major FOS: Mikeburnfire

Minor FOS: thephantom

[CFK]

CFK has been a bit wishy-washy, supporting my lynch without actually being a part of it, and trying to look like he's suspicious of thephantom when he obviously isn't.

The reason that I was supporting your lynch without voting for you is simply because it would have put you at L-1.

You know what kind of person puts somebody at L-1 within the first five pages?

Mafia.

you

even said that it was not wise to put somebody at L-1 this early so I don't see how you can try and blame me for not voting. Even if you are scum (which I think is likely), I would rather wait until we have fully discussed the issue before making any hasty moves. They say that short days hurt the town and this is certainly true in our game.

On the issue of thephantom, I initially thought that he was quite scummy, due to the falacies which you pointed out, but by post #101 I wasn't so sure, and by post #111 I thought that he probably wasn't but I gave minor FOS simply because of his falacies. At this point in time, I am slightly suspicious of him because of this post, which as you pointed out, makes no sense.

I will make a promise right now that if you are not scum and I have made a mistake I will be the first person to vote for my lynch tomorrow if I manage to survive the night.

You are still my number one suspect to be mafia though.

[CFK]

I have to admit that sockpuppet has not been very pro-active in this game, but neither has tyfo.

I just think that we have to consider the possibility that mikeburnfire is innocent, and we need to decide as a group our plan of action in that eventuality.

If mikeburnfire is innocent, then I think the phantom is probably scum. I can't really see them as scumpartners as they have been so agressive that they risked lynching the other person, something that mafia would not find beneficial. On the other hand, they have both said some scummy-sounding things at one point or another, so one of them is probably scum.

Obviously, if we do lynch a townie then I will not vote for somebody straight away, this is just what I think at this point in time.

[CFK]

I would like to see what sockpuppet would have to say in his defense. He hasn't exactly been very pro-active in this game, and though neither was tyfo, at least tyfo has explained why. Admittedly, he will be unable to explain Evafreak's actions, but at least he can explain his own lack of posting.

At the moment, I don't find him suspicious enough to warrant a vote but I'll FoS him. There is also the matter of the possibility of him being scumpartners with thephantom, as mikeburnfire pointed out.

FoS: sockpuppetmakay

[CFK]

just waiting around for sockpuppet really, I'd like to say what he has to say in his defense.

[CFK]

While being pro-active is certainly a good thing for a townie to be, it would be nice if you could be a little less personal

all of you

.

Posted by Trouserdemon:

Both of those statements are true, and I don't see how something like that makes him scum.

I fail to see how when they contradict each other.

To be honest, even if mikeburnfire is suspicious, then lets at least talk about the other players, such as sockpuppetmkay, before we lynch anyone. even if we decide to lynch mike eventually, I would rather that we did so knowing who else may well also be scum. Otherwise, we will go into day 2 without a clue.

[CFK]

along with the other bad materials

I'm probably missing something here but what were these "bad materials" exactly?

I would also like to see what you have to say about your alleged link with thephantom which a few players have pointed out.

This is slightly irrelevant, but could you talk in standerd english rather than "txt tlk" It does not take much longer to type and makes it a lot easier to read.

[CFK]

I do find it slightly suspicious that sockpuppet blamed thekempo for focusing on him but I am still finding thephantom suspicious as well for the evidence that has already been pointed out.

Trouserdemon is seeming fairly suspicious as well, and these posts particulary confuse me:

[quote[mikeburnfire]And yes, I am still pretty intent on getting you lynched. My biggest beef with you has to do with your complete reversal from "Wacky posts on the front page are fine" to "Wacky posts on the front page are scum trying to confuse the town".[/quote]

mikeburnfire says this but trouserdemon responds with:


[quote[touserdemon]Both of those statements are true, and I don't see how something like that makes him scum.[/quote]

How can both statements be true, they completely contadict each other. I questioned him about this earlier and he failed to reply.

[CFK]

Mod can you sort my tags out please?

[CFK]

You know what, vote for me then, if you think that I am scum then get rid of me. Practice what you preach, if you think I am scum then do it, lynch me. My point is that I am not scum and if I was I certainly wouldn't be advocating that, I would be posting in depth explanations of my actions much like mike but I am not doing that. Lynch me if you want but I promise you that I am not scum. If you don't believe me lynch me and find out what I am but you would be lynching an innocent person.

This is neither here nor there and could be interpreted as an appeal to fear. I'm going to put you at L-1 thephantom, and we'll see what you have to say in your defense. True, everybody is going to jump on me because the third vote scumtell is the oldest in the book, but I think it is worth it even if I am jumped on as a consequence because at this moment in time we are just going round in circles and at least this way we'll actually get somewhere because he'll be forced to say something in his defense.

vote: thephantom

[CFK]

I am not going to defend my actions because I am not scum.

This is a terrible answer. Surely if you were town it would be in your interest to defend yourself, because if you get lynched it cripples the town's chance of winning. It also contradicts this:

I have nothing to hide, I am not scum, check all my posts and ask about anything that I have said and I will be more than happy to elaborate on your question.

Here you are saying that you would be happy to explain your actions at any time.

Vote for me Tyfo, Im not appealing to fear, Im not scum but if you want to go along with mike then get rid of me.

What sort of townie asks to be lynched? He also only mentions mikeburnfire when thekempo and myself are also voting for him.

I have no vested interest in the survival of the town once I am gone.

that is just plain scumminess

[CFK]

Well, the point about screwing us all over by being an idiot remains.

Ditto

[CFK]

I'm curious as to why no-one was killed. We KNOW we don't have a doctor anymore, and we have no roleblocker, so it seems odd to not kill someone.

There are currently 6 players left alive. 2 of these are mafia. If we lynch another townie today then they will nightkill another and we'll be down to 4 players, which will equal a townie loss. Prehaps they knew this and decided to leave 6 players in the game. With another player still alive, they will have more chance to lynch an innocent if everybody acts equally suspiciously. They KNOW there is no doctor left so they are certain that if towniis lynched today, they will win. Bearing this in mind, I would urge everyone not to vote until we have made a group descision, because if two townies vote for somebody, the mafia can speedylynch.

My reason for putting thephantom at L-1 is simple, the game had slowed to a standstill and I decided to take things to the next lvel by forcing thephantom (who had been acing scummily) to defend himself. He answered shadilly, so I kept my vote.

[CFK]

Well, my suspicions for mikeburnfire are reignited.

Vote: mikeburnfire

This to me seems a little hasty. We've started a new day and all you do is charge straight into a vote without discussing it with the other members of the game first or even giving really good reasoning. By all means FOS him or give a strong argument on why you voted, but for somebody to be throwing votes around this early on day two is plain scummy.

[CFK]

However, if you check his voting record, you'll see that the only person he voted besides thephantom was Evafreak, and that was when it was opportune. Afterall, we can't argue that putting somebody at L-1 is scummy. Other than that, he's FOS'd everybody except TD and Tyfo, but they were never really under the magnifying glass. This leads me to believe he is scum, playing it cautious and only voting somebody when they look so bad that it would be suspicious NOT to vote.

I have explained my reasons for voting Evafreak, the main one being that he put me at L-1 after I had made two posts. Fair enough about the FOSing, I am easily persuaded. On the voting side of things, I prefer not to rush in to votintg somebody unless I'm fairly sure they are scum. At the point in the game where I voted for thephantom, everybody was pretty sure that he was scum for a good reason. He had been acting scummily, and I wasn't just following the crowd, I was following him because he looked like scum.

As to your cop claim, I am in two minds. If we don't lynch today we lose, so you might as well tell us who you investigated.

[CFK]

Sorry about my recent lack of posting, i've been very busy.

It goes without saying that either mikeburnfire or trousersemon is scum. That means that either tyfo, sockpuppet or thekempo is their scumbuddy. I'm seeing thekempo as being the most likely scumbuddy, especially if mbf is scum.

^ Cool.

Vote: TrouserDemon

He says this and votes for trouserdemon.

He claims he made the vote because he didn't know you could make a false claim, but I have my suspicions.

What I find even more scummy is this post:

If Mike's not the cop, then the real cop should come forward. If no one claims that they're the cop, then Mike will obviously be the cop, as letting a Mafia member claim that their town would be bad for the town.

So, if you're the cop, come forward.

I can't think of a more convenient way of making sure the real cop can be nightkilled (if mbf is lying) whilst protecting my scummate. Basicly,if mbf is lying, the cop is forced to come out. The cop knows that if mbf is lying then he is scum so he will not want to

not

claim because that would be letting a mafia become innocent in the rest of the town's eyes.

[CFK]

Trouserdemon, that would be a very stupid thing to do, on the account you would probably be modkilled.

I don't think we should rush the voting. While it's not clear who the Mafia members are at the moment, I'm sure more evidence will appear the longer the game goes on.

I'm going to have to agree with this, the more the scum are forced to post, the more likely they'll slip up. However, I can understand trouserdemon's reasons for voting. If mikeburnfire

is

lying, then it makes perfect sense for trouserdemon to vote for him.

[CFK]

I can understand that mikeburnfire might have had to claim to keep everybody else off his back, but he should definitely keep his arguments based in this game, not another - thank you tyfo for that point!

Would like to hear some opinions from sockpuppet, who is staying mysteriously quiet at the moment (while he did post on monday, it was virtually contentless)

[CFK]

Waiting to see what sockpuppet has to say (he hasn't posted since Monday)

[CFK]

not night killing is smart and trouser (no insult intended) seems too single minded.

I'll have to disagree with you there. If trouserdemon

is

innocent, then he knows that MBF is scum, so he has no reason not to vote for him. I think he may be a little smarter than he lets on.

thekempo seems like he might be smart enough. of course thekempo claims not to have knowledge of the rules so he might be innocent.

I fail to see where you are coming from here. Are you implying that if somebody has no knowledge of the rules, they are less likely to be scum?

I think that thekempo is more likely to be the scumbuddy of mikeburnfire,
rather than Trouserdemon.

^ Cool.

Vote: TrouserDemon

He votes for trouserdemon here without providing any reason of his own, in short he just follows mikeburnfire.

Wait, you can make unfounded claims? Oh, I didn't know that. I thought you had to be telling the truth if you were to claim you were a cop.

Unvote

After people question his thinking, he uses this as a copout. He could genuinely not know the rules, but I believe that not to be the case.

[CFK]

When I was writing the above post, thekempo's post hadn't come through yet (it was only 1 minute before mine). He could still be busing his scumbuddy though.

[CFK]

When I asked Sockpuppet who he thought was scum out of Mike and Trouser, I said to myself "whoever he says is scum, the opposite of what he says will be true". He said TrouserDemon, so I think it's Mike who's Mafia.

I don't really agree with the reasoning of this post. Even if Sockpuppet is mafia, what's to say that he will not distance himself from his own scumbuddy.

[CFK]

I don't think Sockpuppet is a very intelligent player. He seems to just point the finger at whoever and merge into the crowd. I think he's Mafia, and I think he said TrouserDemon was more likely Mafia to protect Mike.

Might not an intelligent player, act in an unintelligent fashion, to create a false image of his/herself?

[CFK]

Maybe. But I don't think so in this case.

That's up to the rest of us to decide.

[CFK]

i'm implying that if thekempo did not genuinly know the rules about night killing and such he must not be mafia

So basicly, you are saying that not knowing the rules makes somebody innocent. I fail to see how this works.

I already told you I didn't know that particular rule. The fact that no one got night killed on the first night threw me off.

I have little tolerance for people who can't be bothered to check the rules. You wouldn't play a game of chess without knowing the rules, so why is a game of mafia any different?

you're ugly

Logical falcacy, attack the person(https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... the_Person)

[CFK]

Should I paste that six more times in case you feel like asking it again?

My bad, I only brought it up because I found this post a little perplexing:

i'm implying that if thekempo did not genuinly know the rules about night killing and such he must not be mafia

[CFK]

I would like to see some OTHER players paricipate in this discussion (subtle hint)

[CFK]

To be honest, the only way we'll find out if Mikeburnfire or Trouserdemon is scum is by lynching one of them. Several players have brought up the issue of Mikeburnfire's claim being pointless, but I feel that there is nothing wrong with claiming earlier on. This is because a claim is a lot less believeable if you make it later in the game, because people may think you are only claiming to get people off their back. Having said that, I am stil going to :

Vote(hammer): Mikeburnfire

You were scummy on day one and the only thing that kept you alive today was your claim. Not only did you claim, you kept on using it as an argument from repitition (as tyfo pointed out). It was also a very handy "coincidence" that trouserdemon, who had had you marked down as scum from day 1 turned out to be scum.

This also makes me feel that you are scum:

But the fact remains that I am uncontested, and that should be enough to convince you that I'm telling truth.

This is basicly a thinly veiled attempt to draw the cop out. Thekempo tried to do this earlier, so you can not use innocence as your excuse. What a great way to take the cop down with you.

[CFK]

/Bump

[CFK]

I agree with tyfo on the above, let's not rush to lynch somebody today. I am not too suprised that trouserdemon died, because he was basically a confirmed townie. I am going to do a reread of this game and see if I can find any conections between mikeburnfire and anyone.

[CFK]

Still rereading, just thought I'd let you know that I will be away from the 23rd of feb to the 2nd of march. no I am not lurking, I'm going on a sking trip with my school to italy. Sorry for the inconvenience

[CFK]

Right now I'm getting a fairly pro-town vibe from tyfo, although I wish he would say a bit more. Sockpuppet may have been the only one not behind mikeburnfire's lynch, but right now my main suspect is thekempo.

Why did you vote for me?

It's a secret.

COS YOU'RE MAFIA

OMG HE'S MAFIA!

Wink

This is where it all started off, with an attempt to distance yourselves.

later you change to this standpoint:

I just find mike's behaviour kinda strange. It doesn't help if he's Mafia, it doesn't help if he's town.

Maybe he either:
A) Was legitimately screwing around, 'n is now trying to redeem himself by what he's been saying lately,
or B) Screwing around on purpose, so that when we called him on it, he makes us question the logic of doing what he's doing, therefore stopping himself being lynched.

It's a tough one, for now though, my vote still stays firmly on him.

You say this after he posted the defense of himself:

^ Pretty good defense. Unvote for the moment.

You seem to be quite quick to change your mind here, not even questionning him on any of his points.

You're an ass. Seriously.

I'm not sure whether you're town or mafia, but no wonder people take a dislike to you when you act like such a douche.

This is neither here nor there, in facrt it is a logical fallacy (attack the person)

More to come soon!

[CFK]

Mike didn't randomly vote me, you're misinformed on that.

He voted for me without any reason

The above quotes are from the same posts and are contradictory, notice how he is defending mikeburnfire.

Gladly. This is the final bit of convincing I need.

Vote = thephantom

You really started thephantom's bandwagon rolling here, while it was the 2nd vote, mikeburnfire had been voting him for a while, so yours was the first "new" vote. He turned out to be the doctor.

I'm curious as to why Mike was pushing him as Mafia so hard at the start even though he wasn't all that suspicious.

So, why was that Mike?

You start day 2 by attacking mikeburnfire, it would have been suspicious not to.

I get good vibes from him.

This was in his analisis post, in fact you were the only one that he though was pro-town.

^ Cool.

Vote: TrouserDemon

So after mike's analisis, you basically just join the trouserdemon wagon. No reasoning of your own, you were just following mikeburnfire.

Wait, you can make unfounded claims? Oh, I didn't know that. I thought you had to be telling the truth if you were to claim you were a cop.

Unvote

After people start questionning your desicision, you try to cop out with this. I find it highly unlikely you were telling the truth as the whole point of mafia is that you can lie.

If Mike's not the cop, then the real cop should come forward. If no one claims that they're the cop, then Mike will obviously be the cop, as letting a Mafia member claim that their town would be bad for the town.

So, if you're the cop, come forward.

Trying to draw the cop out were we?

After this comes the whole issue about you not reading the rules. I don't know whether you did read them or not, but you defineitly should have done.

After you realize that mikeburnfire is probably gonna get lynched, you vote for him and give this reason:

When I asked Sockpuppet who he thought was scum out of Mike and Trouser, I said to myself "whoever he says is scum, the opposite of what he says will be true". He said TrouserDemon, so I think it's Mike who's Mafia.

This is one of the worst reasons I can think of for voting somebody.

And that brings us up to now, I

think

that thekempo is the second scum, but I may just be trying to see links where there aren't any.

FOS:Thekempo

[CFK]

This was in his analisis post, in fact you were the only one that he though was pro-town.

I meant "thought", not "though", sorry

[CFK]

Sorry if I seem to be picking on you, I felt I had to see if I could make any links and your name seemed to stand out . I'm not saying you were defineitly scumbuddies, just that you seemed to have the most links with him, although that could have been a ploy of his to try and make you look scummy.

[CFK]

It's pretty much WIFOM I'm afraid. I don't think he said it to distance himself from tyfo, rather to try and stop the impending hammer.

[CFK]

At this point in the game, i'm not really seeing tyfo as scum. Sure, he may not have said much, but I have no problem with what he does say.

[CFK]

I don't think we should take Tyfo out of the equation, I'm just saying he is not as high a priority as sockpuppet or especially thekempo.

[CFK]

Bump

[CFK]

it seems like its between thekempo and me unless some1 has something on CFK. if no one does then the neutral parties should find the flaws with me and thekempo and will work off that

Just noticed this. You suggest here that either you or thekempo is scum. If you are pro-town, why would you put yourself forward as a candidate to be scum.

[CFK]

I've been neglecting this out of, well, laziness, lately. I'm still going to do an evaluation of everything that's happened so far, I'll do that in the next day or two.

It's been nearly a week, when will it be ready?

[CFK]

Mod, can you Prod thekempo please

You are still my number one suspect, especially as you have failed to deliver on your promise, even when prompted.

[CFK]

Calm down. When you "prompted" me, I was at a house party.

I'll get round to it whenever I get round to it. Most likely in the next day or so seeing as how my laziness is now apparently scummy.

Your laziness is scummy because everybody else is being pro-active apart from you.

[CFK]

I don'tave the time to make a deatailed post today, but I'll make one saturday (I'm in france from 5:30 am to 12 midnight tommorrow). What I would say for now is to change your vote to an FOS, that way a speedylynch can't happen if you're wong.

[CFK]

Seeing as a lynch requires 3 votes and there's only 1 mafia left, I think we will be safe for now.

Fair enough, I was forgetting that we would need 3 votes, not 2.

[CFK]

The way I see it is this: Unless Tyfo is playing an incredibly good game here, either sockpuppet or thekempo is mafia. They are both obviously going to go for each other, and I'm not particualry biased either way so I would like to see what tyfo has to say.

[CFK]

When you're ready tyfo...

[CFK]

I don't really have much to say, neither thekempo or sockpuppet looks completely innocent, and while I'm more swayed towards thekempo, it could easily be either of them. Everything I want to say has already been stated, so I'm not really sure what to say.

[CFK]

Yeah, a no-lynch result would hardly help as we would end up in the same predicament as before but without either tyfo or myself. The only good that could come of it would be that it gave the cop another day to do an investigaion, which could help to seal the game. As for the moment, I am going to put my money where my mouth is and:

Vote:thekempo

I feel that he is more likely to be scum than sockpuppet, due to his connections with MBF, although there are strong arguments for both sides.

[CFK]

Elaborate on your reasons why please.

Mainly the fact that you have used a lot of the same reasoning as MBF, as well as the Evafreak L-1 affair, as well as this:

When I asked Sockpuppet who he thought was scum out of Mike and Trouser, I said to myself "whoever he says is scum, the opposite of what he says will be true". He said TrouserDemon, so I think it's Mike who's Mafia.

So basically, you justified your change of vote based on a hunch that sockpuppet and MBF may be scumbuddies.

To be honest, I can't really see anybody getting lynched by the deadline unless tyfo changes his stance because its just your word against sockpuppets

[CFK]

Oops... my bad , sockpuppet replaced Evafreak, not you. I'm really sorry about that, it was just me being lazy. I can see I'm going to have to reconsider my argument.

Unvote

[CFK]

Sorry for my recent absence. I am at my grandparent's house and I assumed they would have internet access but unfortunately they don't. I'm not getting home until Monday but I'll be happy to make up for my abscence then. I am writing this at an internet café.

[CFK]

Sorry for the delay - I'll start with my feedback to Strife's analysis before moving on to the subject of claiming.

I can't think of a more convenient way of making sure the real cop can be nightkilled (if mbf is lying) whilst protecting my scummate. Basicly,if mbf is lying, the cop is forced to come out. The cop knows that if mbf is lying then he is scum so he will not want to not claim because that would be letting a mafia become innocent in the rest of the town's eyes.

Can you clarify this CFK? Are you implying that if Mafia claim cop then the real cop should keep quiet? I don't understand how you guys managed to lynch MFB D2 without a cop counter-claim, but that is certainly not the usual situation

I am not implying that, I'm just saying that if somebody who looks shady (like MBF) claims cop, then surely it is worth the real cop (who will know that he is scum) trying to

steer

the game so that the scum gets lynched before they actually come out and claim. Obviously, the cop did a good job, because we lynched the scum and the mafia couldn't NK the cop (although they did bag the confirmed vanninlla)

Which, to me, means MFB's partner either bussed him or hammered him. I really have no idea at this point, but I'll place a weak FOS on CFK.

If you're town and he's scum, then your lynch would have been spot on and your 'why I lynched him' post would have no real bearing on D3.

Precisely

CFK, your post 358 is very scummy. You say that a no-lynch would mean you or Tyfo would get lynched that night and that we'd be at the same situation as D3. This implies that you think there is a 0% chance of Tyfo being scum, which, unless you're the cop, would be impossible. You admit that the no-lynch would give the cop another night, yet you vote for Kempo? How is giving the cop another night not a good thing! FOS CFK. You seem to know that no-lynch is the most pro-town option but yet don't do it.

I'm not saying there is no chance of Tyfo being scum, I'm just saying that he has done practically nothing to make himself look scummy compare to you or Kempo, which means that the Scum is likely to kill him. While a no-lynch would get the cop another night, the chances of him being NK'ed or roleblocked are incredibly high (3 townies left means a 2/3 chance of the scum either roleblocking the cop or killing him.) Also, while there would be a lower proportion of townies to scum after a no-lynch, the townie who is NK'ed is likely to be somebody who didn't look scummy anyway (tyfo for example) meaning we will be no closer to working out who the scum is, but we will have have one less mind to work it out.

As for claiming, I am not claiming cop so if the rest of you want to to a no-lynch, feel free to do it. I may be against it but I'm not stopping you if you all feel it is the right thing to do. I would think very carefully about it though.

Finally,

Why would he want to claim cop? Surely that'd just make him a prime target for a night kill?

I find the amount of ignorance here astonishing.

[CFK]

Elaborate on your last sentence, please. I'm not sure I get it.

He asks this after strife explains it perfectly clearly, which makes me wonder if he has actually read was written.

And FOS: CFK for thinking that choosing 1 out of 4 to lynch is in any way better than choosing 1 out of 3. Even if you're 99% sure Tyfo is town (which I'd certainly hope you don't think), we'd be better off with a no lynch

So you are suggesting that if Tyfo had a 99% chance of being town (which would basically be the same as having a confirmed innocent) you would still no-lynch, even if it led to him being killed. Personally, I would much rather have a confirmed townie (or at least somebody who is very likely to be town) than a 1/3 chance of the cop actually getting to investigate somebody.

[CFK]

I'm not saying that Tyfo is 100% town gaurenteed and I'm not trying to buddy up to him. I'm just saying that he has done very little to make himself look scummy compared to you or kempo. I am fairly confident that either you or kempo is the scum, due to the fact that you have done fairly scummy things (which I won't bother to list because they can be seen in earlier posts), so by the process of elimination he is likely to be town. The fact that he went after phantom a little on D1 is neither here nor there because the phantom brought his lynch upon himself with his "i don't care if you lynch me argument". Yes, I do think it is likely that he will get NK'ed tonight because the remaining scum will find it easier to manipulate the lynch towards somebody who has come under attack recently (myself, you or kempo).

Not that I'm implying that I think Tyfo is the best scum-candidate here

So basically, you don't find him particually scummy either but you won't come out and admit it because that would make you look like a hypocrite.

There's nothing Tyfo can say tomorrow that he can't say today.

I'm not sure quite what you are suggesting here

The only thing the 4th person offers is their opinion, which is just as good today as it is tomorrow

Not really, because their opinion now is based on only what they know at this point in time.

If this whole no lynch scheme matters so much to you, then fine but on your own head be it

vote:no lynch

[CFK]

So if I get NK'd, I'll advise the cop to claim and give up everything they know.

I agree, if the cop isn't NK'ed they should definitely spill the beans tommorrow.

[CFK]

Before I go any further, I would like to say that I am going hiking on friday and saturday so I will be unavailable on those days.

I'll start with the obvious,

nobody vote for anybody until we reach a consensus or we risk a speedylynch

. If you suspect somebody, by all means FOS them but don't vote. Looking back, no-lynch may have been the wrong move, because we lost our cop, but we'll have to deal with it. Right now, I am equally suspicious of both Strife and kempo so I'll wait to see what you have to say before making any sudden moves.

[CFK]

Of all people I'm incredibly confused why Tyfo did not want a no-lynch.

I agree, if anybody wants an extra night then it is bound to be the cop. He could, however have been trying to mislead the scum into thinking somebody else was the cop.

What I'm most interested in is to hear how CFK was so confident that Tyfo was town. In hindsight, it does look like buddying up.

Your predictions as to what would happen were a suspiciously accurate. Tyfo was town (like you were quite sure of) and on N3 Tyfo was lynched (like you were quite sure of). When looking over Tyfo's post history the only thing that made Tyfo seem the most likely town was his part on the MFB lynch

I wasn't "quite sure" that he was going to be NK'ed. I said I thought that it was "likely" but that does not amount to the same thing. As to why I was nearly certain he was town, it's simple. He hasn't done anything wrong. If you look back through the game, I'm sure you can find points where any of us three has said something that sounded a little scummy, whereas I think you would be hard pressed to find something scummy that Tyfo said. As far as I am aware, he has not been FOS'ed all game. Also, he was very decisive on MBF's lynch at a point where it could have gone either way. If he was gonna bus him, he would have waited until he was sure he couldn't get TD lynched. That's why I found it highly likely that he was town. As to why I suspected he would be NK'ed, if you were scum, who would you go for: somebody who looks fairly innocent, or somebody who looks fairly scummy?

[CFK]

I would like to here more from Kempo

[CFK]

CFK hasn't peaked my suspicions much throughout the game, I did find it kinda strange how he confused me and Evafreak though. That was odd.

My bad, I wasn't thinking straight.

I agree with you about Evafreak, that was neither here nor there.

The natural thing for scum to do if they make a list like this would be to throw a scum in the midst.

I disagree, if MBF was fairly confident he could get thephantom lynched, then he would only need 1 more townie lynch to win the game, and either trouserdemon or myself would have done fine. Besides, at this point in the game thephantom genuinely looked scummy, so his list would have been believeable.

*Shameless self-promotion; Sock wasn't part of the lightning fast Phantom lynch!*

He wasn't part of any lynch so that is neither here nor there.

Post 219 I'm going to mark as incredibly significant. It's the post where MFB claims cop and votes Trouser, and Kempo takes it for gospel and votes. He then unvotes after Tyfo points out the behaviour.

I find your second option more likely, he seemed to be fairly aware of the rules.

Do you still think Kempo's counterclaim request was scummy and points to MFB and Kempo being scum?

Got it in one.

Post 265 CFK sympathizes with MFB's claim for outing his cop roll early. In this situation, kempo was correct that a cop should not claim like that.

Peronally, I think a cop should claim at the start of the day. That way if they end up under pressure later, it doesn't just look like they said it to prevent their lynch.

Yes, I still think kempo and MBF are scumbuddies. On D2 especially, kempo took what MBF had to say "as gospel" and made a lot of posts that basically just used MBF's arguments. He has also used the whole "Noob mistake" thing but I think he is just using that argument to defend himself. While at the start of this day, I put strife under pressure because he cocked the "no-lynch thing up (at least in my opinion, the main reason was because he was quite aggressively attacking me. Now I've thought about a bit more, I am more inclined to think that he is town because his attacks haven't been just on me and it shows that he is being pro-active. On the other hand, Kempo has had very little to say, which is bordering on lurking.

[CFK]

Waiting for Kempo

[CFK]

Especially as I know I'm town and he keeps attacking me.

That's a very poor argument, in my eyes you are scum and I'm being pro-active.

[CFK]

Also, I will be unavailable tommorow or sunday because I am camping.

[CFK]

Alright I have a few minutes to contribute, so I'll just put out my opinion. Based on my read-through, I think CFK is my best guess for the last scum. As a whole, it seems that Kempo's potentially scummy actions are more likely pro-town than CFKs. My reasoning should be fairly clear from previous posts, so I won't bother re-itterating. I'm not confident enough to vote, but I will FOS CFK to mark him as bz main suspect

I would like you to re-iterate, because I came up with a perfectly logical counter argument for every argument you made. if you can find something that reveals me as scum, I would like to see it, so I can explain why I wrote it. You have been constantly attcking me in a biased manner for a while now, so I am going to

FOS: Strife220

[CFK]

What I basically mean is, why should we believe what you're saying, when you don't believe what I'm saying?

You have a point, sort of. Mostly, its because I don't think your answer has been adaquate. I'm in the process of a re-read, so I'll post when I'm finished.

[CFK]

Okay, i've had a look through and I feel that I may have been jumping to conclusions about thekempo. I've had a spot of tunnel vision in the last few days and have fortgotten about the rest of the players.

FOS

Strife 220

I'll start with day one, Evafreak puts me at L-1 and then quits (although this is fairly weak because Evafreak was hard to figure out.

Then sockpuppet comes in and says very little for the next few pages, blaming his new computer for his lack of posting.

i don't really have an excuse for the lurking earlier, lurking is just sometimes how i choose to do things.

It starts getting scummy...

mikeburnfire- i suspected him earlier on for his bad excuse, but his recent defense of himself absolves him of my suspicion as much as anyone can be. nice job.

He says this while everybody's attention is on MBF

Hey, sorry i wasn't posting my awsome monitor died on me =[. i have a crummy replacemnet now and i will begin posting again as soon as i can.

He uses a very similar excuse to his last one after people spot that he's been lurking.

i think out of everyone playing that thekempo would seem to be a good scumbuddy for trouser.

This is after the MBF cop claim. As we know, trouser was innocent; so it is likely that kempo is as well.

it seems like its between thekempo and me unless some1 has something on CFK. if no one does then the neutral parties should find the flaws with me and thekempo and will work off that

Sockpuppet is basicly saying that either he or kempo is scum. If he was town, why would he suggest that he might be scum?

After that Strife replaces sockpuppet and has attacked me for the rest of the game, despite the fact that I answered his questions perfectly well.

[CFK]

Try and say what you have before the deadline, so we can vote with as much information as possible.

[CFK]

When MFB claimed cop, Kempo jumped in and followed right along, assuming his claim was true. Kempo then unvotes after people point out that it very well could have been a false-claim. Unless Kempo is scum going for heavy-WIFOM, this is a major town-tell. If he is scum, his mindset must have been something like 'well, I know MFB is scum since he is my scum buddy, so I know that false-claims are possible. But if I pretend that I don't know false claims are possible, everybody will assume I'm town.' This situation just seemed too ridiculous, especially considering it's Kempo's first game. Thus, I took Kempo's behaviour towards MFB's cop-claim as genuine, and good evidence that he was town.

This is a rubbish argument. You claim that kempo is too stupid to pretend that he thought that false claims were not allowed, when it isn't really all that hard to use that argument. And it is my first game too so that argument is pointless.

Secondly, I like Kempo's D4 behaviour much more than CFKs. The fact that hestuck to his guns and was willing to say on the previous page that he thought I was scum, despite me stating my thoughts that CFK was scum, implies that he is playing D4 as a town looking for scum, rather than scum looking for anyone to lynch.

So basically, the fact that I have worked out that you are scum makes me scum.

[CFK]

I can't think of a more convenient way of making sure the real cop can be nightkilled (if mbf is lying)

notice the bit in brackets. Not for one second did I say that I was sure he was telling the truth.

He has also started buddying up to Tyfo, implying with entirely too much confidence that he knows Tyfo is pro-town. So the scum strategy he's going for here is to make friends with one town to form a team and try to get either of the other 2 lynched. All of his posts that mention how he thinks Tyfo is very likely town are huge tells - Tyfo did nothing to deserve such status.

For the 100th time, I didn't buddy up to tyfo, I just said that I thought that it was very likely that he was town. If you really think he did nothing to deserve such status then find me 1 scummy post he made in the entire game.

Post 421 CFK FOS's me for stating that he's my suspect #1, flip flopping again.
Post 431, after Kempo makes it clear that he think I'm scum, CFK makes a more detailed post on why I must be the scum.

To me this behaviour is that of scum looking for the easiest lynch on both D3 and D4. Inconsistent behaviour, flip-flopping, and using Kempo's D2 town-tell as justification for his push on a Kempo-lynch are all evidence of his alignment.

The reason that I changed my suspect to you is that after doing my re-read (which i mentioned in one of my posts) I came to the conclusion that you looked a lot more scummy than I remembered you being. That is why you became my main suspect and you have just confirmed that status by trying a last-ditch attack on me to try and discredit what I am saying.

Vote:Strife220

[CFK]

It's like this: I'm going away on a hike this afternoon and I won't be back till tomorrow afternoon I will probably be able to make a short post tommorrow (providing there is enough time) before we go away to spend half-term on holiday. I am not making this up and I can provide holiday photos to show that I am telling the truth when I get back, if you do not believe me.

[CFK]

I was hoping you'd ask me questions or state agree-ance or disagree-ance with some of CFK's attacks, Kempo. I don't want to go through everyone of them and defend myself with the same ol' counter-arguments unless you think they are significant

So basically you are saying that you are not going todefend yourself unless forced to. I'm seeing similarities with thephantom here.

Picking out CFK as his scummiest target is obv-distancing move since he knew he was soon dead.

Or alternitavely, he may have been trying to get a perfectly innocent townie lynched. Please don't venture into the realms of WIFOM

As previously mentioned, I will be away until next sunday, but I'll answer your questions when I get back.

[CFK]

CFK, how'd you manage to block me three nights in a row? How'd you figure out I was cop?

I was pretty sure from day 1 due to your lack of posting and you confirmed it day two by the way you acted so surely against MBF

good game all, I kind of cocked it up for myself when I went after kempo. He looked like an easy target at the time but I'd have been better off tyring to lynch sockpuppet.

(I'm writing this at an internet café)

[CFK]

I have to commend Strife 220 on his good play. When it was sockpuppet, it was easy to dupe him into thinking Kempo was scum, but Strife blocked my attacks until I ended up going after him instead.