Blitz 18: Wedding Invitational Mafia - GAME OVER

[Tammy]

Yay, congraulations Cabd and Penguin.

Confirming that the ffery curse is apparently only limited to newbie games, so yay on that one too.

Also also, I'm going to go grade and let you guys argue this one out. But, I don't see a problem with the pair claiming; I thought from the way that Bro was talking it was assassins in the balance or something, but meh scry's right it says lynched.

Bro - why would you assume scum get something if they kill cabd/peng?

[Tammy]

HA HA HAHAHA, silly nacho.

Yes, it means I'm town! The ffery curse is that I draw scum in games she mods, but that's apparently only limited to newbies, so yay.

[Tammy]

Also that took me way too long to post. Off to grade.

[Tammy]

I'd vote empire, but apparently I wasn't invited to the party

[Tammy]

I quickly skimmed and have thoughts but I'm in bed near ready to pass out so that will have to wait. This game started at a not great time for me as next week is finals and I'm piled high. I should be able to carve out some time tomorrow, but if not there should be some time on Friday.

I am town, and that will be clear once I really get into it, but if you could give me some patience this game day I'd really appreciate it!

Coupe questions:

Ceph - what was weird about my post?

Nati - I'm vacillating between wanting to know why you would want to wait until day two for the claim and thinking you have a reason. I'm not sure if I really want you to respond right now, but this is something I'll probably want to come back to tomorrow. So, this is kinda a place-holder.

Yes, I know really uninteresting things for me to comment on. Also this self-aware :p. Okay I'm starting to get delirious.

A domani!

[Tammy]

Its because we're unlikely to lynch the couple today and we'll have info if scum want to CC tomorrow.

Oh I remember you saying that. It just struck me as odd cuz I've always known you to be the type to desire early claims, so I was trying to figure out if there was anything to that.

[Tammy]

Ceph - Do you even know what I was talking about? I don't know why it was strange for me to mention what was literally going through my mind before and after I read my role pm. I mean I could see if you were accusing me of trying to look town by coming up with a reason for me to say that I was town, though that feels weird, or even saying that my tone didn't match my happiness or relief at being town, which is something I was actually kinda expecting. But I don't see what was strange about bringing a curse I have mused about. Feels like commenting for the sake of commenting but not really commenting on the right thing.

Mala - I know you said you don't know why, so I won't bother asking, but I'm going all >> << >< over you even slightly town reading me from that post.

Also, I knew this going in to the game, but it's really being reinforced that being town is a double-edged sword here. Being scum in this player list would suck so fuck that, but in some regards it would be better. Nacho could get that day one lynch from me he's always wanted and then I could sit on the sidelines and drink champagne with the happy couple and enjoy the how. Game after recent game is just proving the fact that I have a really hard time scum reading people I enjoy playing with and even when I am scum reading them, I spend too much time feeling bad because what if I'm wrong and I don't want to mislynch them, so I end up in a kind of paralyzed state for at least the first couple days until something clicks in my brain and Im able to be a bit more objective. I'm really tempted to just find a town read that I think is town without a doubt and just sheep that shit. (Empire should call me scum for congratulating the playerlist, and someone should call me scum for abdicating responsibility. :p) I don't really plan on just sheeping, though I suppose it could turn out that way. I'm really trying to shake my affliction, but it's hard.

Okay enough of too early in the morning ramblings, I've got to go to work.

[Tammy]

AP - if this is going to be another one of your hate all over Tammy fests ala your crap from beg where I'm literally not aloud to scum hunt and you'll policy lynch me because you're just oh so much better than me tell me now and I'm fine leaving.

Answer me this big bird. If I make awkward posts every game, then why would a post like that be weird or strange for me to make? Seems like this would be par for the course? And then why am I not allowed to question someone's reaction to a type of post I allegedly make evedry game? Is everyone allowed to scum hunt something that feels odd but me or do you just always feel the need to make sure you let me know I'm crap?

[Tammy]

And I didn't eviscerate you copy I asked you a question because it felt off that you would think its weird for me to comment on what I was thinking at the time.

[Tammy]

Sorry that I got sensitive. I got flashbacks to bsg and thought you were heading down a same course here.

I don't remember calling you scummy for reacting to my first posts, definitely not enough that it would become a record.

I had to start calling myself town in my first posts as scumbecause it became a habit when I was town, and somewhere along the line it became a hassle to try to figure out ways to do it scum of town, so I stopped unless it was something naturally occurring or something I was thinking about, ie here.

I don't care that it was brought up. I expected someone to say something about me faking something in some way. Ceph usually reads me on tone, so that's what I was expecting him to say was weird. I thought he was going to say my tone was flat or the ha ha thing felt forced. It felt off that it was that I brought it up that was weird as it is something common for me, though less so these days.

So sorry for being sensitive I want this to be a pleasant game, and I've gotten less reactionary about being called scum over the past year or so even though I still don't particularly like it. And even though it's gotten less distracting for me, I'm not going to stop scum hunting reactions or suspicions.

Ceph - I don't know why you would assume I would eviscerate you. In two recent games you've called me scum or been suspicious of me and I haven't eviscerated you, so I don't know why you'd just jump to that.

Ceph - talk to me about pie.

[Tammy]

That should be mara talk to me about pie

[Tammy]

Heading out to trivia. I'll try to come back tonight but I'm just as likely to pass out.

Empire - I was joking with the you would call me scum for that thing. Some time ago we were following a game and both thought someone was scum for a making a congratulating the playerlist post. I'm not sure what I think about Ceph yet.

Mala - My problem isn't with people town reading that post. My problem is with you specifically town reading that post. I can't remember the last time you were actually able to read me as town except for that time you were scum and you read me as town even though I was lurky as hell. In all, I think that most all of my posts after are far more town, so I have no idea why you think a null sort of post from me looks town whereas posts that more represent town me you have null unless you realize your mistake in town reading me when you shouldn't and are calling everything else null to make up for it.

IDK but I'm heading out!

[Tammy]

Empire - I was joking with the you would call me scum for that thing. Some time ago we were following a game and both thought someone was scum for a making a congratulating the playerlist post. I'm not sure what I think about Ceph yet.

I don't remember that! >_> I'm asking you about Ceph because I got to you-town fairly painlessly this time around (I know, it surprised me too). I think Ceph might be town and I see a number of positives in his ISO and I know we've talked about reading him in the past, so let me know what you think of the following:

1) He is not committing the "oily politician" tell.
2) He seems overall pretty unapologetic about his play and his frustration with people being deliberately obtuse seems town.
3) He doesn't seem to be keeping track of this game all that closely and that doesn't seem faked. From what I remember, he prefers scum and I think he'd be a lot more on top of shit as that alignment.
4) He had that one post earlier where he was like "how do I deal with x type of player," came across very much in a "speaking-from-the-heart" type of way.

Not gonna lie, I haven't been following things as closely as you have so I haven't picked up on those nuances. Though he did in some game earlier this year? try to pull a I'm a lurker cause I'm town and I care more as scum type thing. My concern with Ceph is he knows very well what town Ceph looks like and can emulate that and change once one thing is picked up on.

I was feeling decent about you being town early on too and it was kinda scary when you self-metad why I thought you were town. Then I went what if he's behaving how he knows I'll town read him and when looking for allies he didn't mention that I would know what he was doing because he thought that I would get paranoid at that and so yeah I'll just watch how this conversation plays out and see how I feel.

[Tammy]

Mala - My problem isn't with people town reading that post. My problem is with you specifically town reading that post. I can't remember the last time you were actually able to read me as town except for that time you were scum and you read me as town even though I was lurky as hell. In all, I think that most all of my posts after are far more town, so I have no idea why you think a null sort of post from me looks town whereas posts that more represent town me you have null unless you realize your mistake in town reading me when you shouldn't and are calling everything else null to make up for it.

I don't really have much of a problem telling your towngame apart recently, but that's mainly because you have only rolled town recently. I think I have learned to read you better after we hydra'd together for a bit than when we didn't I would always be steamrolled by your scum game. I mean to each their own, but I don't think your posts have been as town as you think they are. I'll give you credit that you are decently good at emulating your town game when you're playing scum.

I'd include a gif that expresses how I feel reading this post right now, but I'm buzzed and tired and don't have the energy to search, but suffice it's one that expresses complete incredulity.

For more than a year now, you've been absolutely terrible at discerning town me. Every single game, all i remember from you is, "Tammy doesn't look town yet, Tammy's not town, Tammy's not convincing me she's town, etc." so I have no idea at all where you're getting that you don't have a problem telling my town game apart. One game you literally claimed I was read best on tone and while I was a mason spent the better part of day one dogging me and trying to claim that I'd scum slipped by using a tone or phrase you didn't think I would use.

So, no offense, but an arbiter of my town game you are not. Not even close. I am an expert on my town game, however, as I know when I'm speaking with my heart and I know when I'm lackluster as town. The post you called me town on, YOU should never have town read.

You used this same hydra thing when you were scum iirc. You claimed that you had a better understanding of my town game after we hydrad in we the purple when I lurked and wasn't around much until day three. And you used that to give me an easy town read when you really shouldn't have. That is what it felt like for you town reading that first post.

And if you are town here, you have absolutely no idea what makes me town or an understanding of how I look a the game and why, which is pretty clear from calling a null post town and saying the rest is null. And what was the last sentence about? Cuz it feels like you throwing shade for the sake of it and not at all anything natural that should have been following.

[Tammy]

Mara I think Bork and Pie are town. They are y friends and friends aren't demons! Friends are friends!

You don't think that Pie's "I give you one chance to retract your statement Empire" was a little over done? Or am I just annoyed with Pie's attitude?

[Tammy]

honestly I still like it but more because it didn't come off forced to me. in my recent memory whenever you'd emulate your "you're not lynching me" or "I'm super town" or whatever, it would feel off timing-wise.

I just think it's an easier thing to have bravado about than you're making it sound; I just lack trajectory on that slot so far and that point isn't doing it for me right now; I'm not scumreading him atm

I'm town reading empire, and I agree pie's point wasn't strong.

[Tammy]

I don't have a town read on Tammy. someone point me to where she's town told bc if she did I've missed it.

You can always ask Tammy.

Completely serious here.

Oh oh hey this is right!

[Tammy]

I have to get up in a couple hours so I'm passing out.

I'll catch up and continue with Mala tomorrow!

[Tammy]

I've been trying to keep up though the day, so I'm not sure if I'm going to remmed everything I wanted to comment on during the day, but here goes:

Mala - I never said you *had* to be scum. It is off, and yes you may have eventually realized I was town in those games but it came after commenting on most of my posts and how they weren't town yet. You did try to keep Titus off of me in Mafia on the Air but that came after I got fed up with the continual harping and threw a fit. What you eventually end up doing isn't my problem or point. It felt like too easy of a town read - vague, leaning, light or otherwise - too early and on really null post. That pinged especially since you did that in the micro where you were scum and I lurked and lurked and lurked. If you're scum, you know I'm town and therefore I'm an easy town read to give. You know I'm likely to be widely town read and there are people here who are quite capable of reading me, so that's the easy route to go. I mean who knows, maybe you actually are getting better at reading me - although calling everything else null says that you don't really have an idea of how to read me, but hey - but I'm not going to not point out something that pings because maybe that's what's going on. I should have said something in that micro because it struck me as odd, but I let it go. If you are town, I feel like I'll see it eventually.

Also, just because you guys didn't get to post in bsg before I was dead, doesn't mean he didn't mention me at all. In fact, his first post in the game was that scum shouldn't have killed me because he was going to policy lynch me (which was based on me scum hunting ffery and her fake paranoia on me.) There was also a neighborhood with posts which I also read.

Nacho - I don't think mala voting you is a town tell. You saying that feels like when Sir Chris town read DCIII BECAUSE he attacked him when he didn't think DC had the nerve to attack him while scum. Mala has played with you enough and been your scum partner before that I don't see her afraid of voting you there just because you're widely townread. And in team mafia iirc she attacked fen church while she was widely town read, so your picture of a weak mara isn't something I completely buy especially since she's said that she's started to enjoy playing scum more. (Also, I'm pretty sure her bemoaning her ability to read people and how she's been reading people completely wrong lately is really close to her posts in team mafia if I'm not getting that game confused with another.)

Anyway, I'll be interested in Pie's updated thoughts on Mala as she was really the one to identify that Mala was scum in Team Mafia.

Speaking of Pie - Trying to read me on things you think I'm able to fake is a pretty bad way to read me. Once you figure out what I *would* fake, what I would think of faking and what I would react to and how as either alignment, then you'll have it down. Also, you still feel weird to me.

Empire - I have been pretty good at reading Nacho. I do sometimes struggle in the early game, ala swagwars, but overall I think I do fine. We've played together at Westeros several times and at mtgs where I've actually had an easier time reading him than here weirdly enough. So, yeah, I feel confident I'll get it right even if I'm wrong early. That said I've liked his posts so far. I was concerned early on though because lately almost every game we've played together he's started off with some kind of banter about whether or not I'm scum and he didn't here. So that worried me at first, but his early pushing to get you voted reminded me a bit of that game a couple years ago when Syryana and I were scum together and he pushed to get a syryana wagon going to get a read on him. I do have more markers for his town game than I used to and I do like the presentation of the GM case in that it reminds me of a recent mtgs day one town behavior. I had some slight early pings on GM myself, but I want to go back and look at the game I replaced into that she was scum in a while back because I think she has a lurky tendency, oh yeah I'll look at bsg probably really quick. Anyway, I don't have a problem with him right now and I don't feel like I'm struggling which would be an indicator so I have hope!

Oh Ceph probably doesn't know what you look for, and I do agree that he doesn't look like an oily politician.

I feel like there was something else I wanted to respond to, hrm.

pedit: The where is the case on me thing isn't very attractive at all. Also, I'm being prodded I posted yesterday.

[Tammy]

Although empire - I kinda would have expected him to correct pie or respond to that when he wanted to know if I'd town told, but he ignored that when he's been interjecting about others. I'm not sure if that means anything though. Pie looked like she was correcting herself and you'd already pointed out I was town, so IDK.

[Tammy]

tammeh -- how do you feel about cephrir & GM?

ceph will take me longer than a day to get a feel for how I feel about him.

GM is leaning scum though I want to look at a past game if I have time to see if what pings is just play style. You hydra with her right? What is your read?

[Tammy]

Hi notscience!

Oh I just realized we're going to be in the night phase during my busiest period! My weekend has just become so much less stressful.

[Tammy]

tammeh -- how do you feel about cephrir & GM?

ceph will take me longer than a day to get a feel for how I feel about him.

GM is leaning scum though I want to look at a past game if I have time to see if what pings is just play style. You hydra with her right? What is your read?

Well I'm not liking him at all so far.

I have only hydra'd with GM once so I never really got a feel about how she thinks during it as much as I liked. Plus every single game in the last ~3 months~ she's been scum. I mean I don't even think I know what town-GM would be like anymore ._.

ceph is someone whom I have a tendency to carry a lot of paranoia/think is scum early on and is someone I don't feel confident giving a solid read on early on, which makes this game day one I'll just be flimsy about. The only time in recent history I remember getting him right and getting him early was in Smite where I read him as scum but let some people talk me out of, though I made the correct decision to roleblock him in the midst of that. But he was a replacement of a slot I was already scum reading. So yeah, probably won't feel anywhere close to solid there today.

GM is someone I'd probably vote for. I do like Nacho's case there, and while I didn't find anything significantly different there from the pick your power game from forever ago and bsg, she did ping me a bit, but IDK.

[Tammy]

i didn't read the whole game no, but I don't give much weight to bsg as she was in a neighborhood for the entirety of day one and came in after a scum had been lynched and I was dead, so meh. That other empire game doesn't help either because she was a mason and didn't do shit, so.

She pinged me, so it doesn't matter and I'm probably going to vote her regardless.

pedit: I did read that post and went well she is way different especially considering in pick your power she felt more slimy, but it's hard to compare there too because there's not the same situations. She came in day two after reading all of day one and being in neighborhood and oh wait I misread that as notanaxehole, but I still think that was against someone that offends her on a personal level so not sure that's alignment indicative.

i do like your insistence there though.

[Tammy]

Actually I'm not sure I feel great about nacho :/. I also don't really like pie. Bro and ap easily town reading me feels weird, but bro hasn't done that thing he's done both times I've seen him as scum. Ceph thinking my first post was weird for the reason it was was weird and the evisceration request was weird.

Idk maybe they are all town and it is gm because even as I think that I don't feel great about nacho there were some things I like but I would have expected a bride or groom claim there I think.

[Tammy]

I do think it's pretty funny that it seems like all of us got blindsided by this being a blitz game. I kept wondering why the thread wasn't popping up in large theme :/

[Tammy]

even as I think that I don't feel great about nacho there were some things I like but I would have expected a bride or groom claim there I think.

where?

Sorry, two separate thoughts. That was after good morning's post, I would have expected scum to claim bride or groom I think.

[Tammy]

I'll probably vote good morning as I'm not as suspicious of malakittens anymore. I liked her interaction with cephrir, I think.

It pains me that I'd also vote syryana. I don't expect him to be as aggressive and out there as he was in the last blitz game, but I'd have expected a little more something.

[Tammy]

heh, yeah probably.

[Tammy]

How did you know I was reading his iso and fretting :/

[Tammy]

There are a couple posts that look townish a little.

[Tammy]

The mara meta thing was odd, but tbf I don't know what mara's earlier meta really was. I've never really seen her as bubbly in games.

But I would expect a bit more of a tunnel I guess if he was really scum reading her that strongly.

IDK

pedit: I thought it looked like a soft and I was wondering if everyone in this game and their husband and wife was going to soft.

[Tammy]

VOTE: syr

[Tammy]

How does that fit the flavor for the mother of the bride?

[Tammy]

lol

My issue with Syr's posting today is that it's just all off. He's coming across as bitter and he knows that Nacho can read him, so his interaction there should be different.

[Tammy]

Oh the lol was at the flavor claims request. I'm not being insensitive.

[Tammy]

Syr's interaction with Nacho reminds me of mine in Too Many Heads when he caught me and I wasn't sure how to respond and didn't have the energy to really do it right.

[Tammy]

Waffles is super duper fucking high right now off of pain medication that he's literally snoring while awake.

[Tammy]

If nacho is town with that role, then scum must have a ninja as there's no reason for both roles to exist as town otherwise.

Anyway, this is just a prod dodge post. I'm not doing anything with mafia until I've turned in my portfolio tomorrow.

[Tammy]

Sorry, I'm gonna pop up here for a quick moment to laugh in your face.

What was it? Last week? Week before? You claimed you could read me better when I'm not very active because according to you, oh what was it, oh yeah, when I'm low activity I can't hide when I'm scum. Well, I haven't been high activity and I'm town and you're nervous.

Have you just lost your touch? (Also, how is it possible Empire read me as town before you???)



That gif doesn't really fit I know but a friend posted it on Facebook and I wanted to use it :/

[Tammy]

see that's why i didn't want to say i had paranoia of tammy

You don't like it when I point and laugh at you?

Actually I'm not sure I feel great about nacho :/

although for the record this is basically a scumread so i think we're even this game

You do realize I retracted that in the same post. I felt bad about you as I was writing the post and after writing the sentence I felt like it was dumb.

The gif goes well with the song!

[Tammy]

Would a ninja come back no result? I thought you got the same thing?

[Tammy]

I guess a role blocker works the same way. Ninja was just my first thought upon seeing Syry's flip. I was still expecting Nacho to die last night though, so yeah the Bork death is weird as he didn't seem roled to me, but I guess they could have just been going for strong town?

Also, Nacho I don't think the thing yesterday was your fault. Syry's reaction was very weird. The only thing that in retrospect should have given me pause and probably would have if not blitz and/or me being busy was when he stuck around and kinda taunted us about us being wrong. I should have picked up on that.

[Tammy]

If mala turns out to be scum I'm gonna be all why I oughtta about getting talked out of that burgeoning scum read there.

Nacho - if you are paranoid of me or even nervous yesterday why didn't you interact with me at all in order to nail it down. You saw pie tossing around uncertainty on me and I even mentioned to empire that it was weird you didn't comment on that while calling everyone else town when someone was worried.

[Tammy]

I kinda want to lynch GiF. I think one of the things that ffery reads GiF by is how in tune he is with the gamestate and seeing things the way she's seeing them. I'm not ffery, but he seems quite out of tune with the game. I'm barely reading and paying attention and even I'm recognizing crap. So, that has me concerned. I suppose he could be trolling.

I don't think the bride or groom needs to claim today because neither one of them are going to be lynched today anyway.

I'm going back to working on my portfolio.

But real quick:

Scum definitely are not bussing each other. It feels like they've gone the defend route and that's why we can't get anything done really. That or people are really overestimating their ability to town read each other.

Speaking of: Nacho could you explain your super duper strong out of this world town read on pie? Cuz like the only thing she's done is flare up at empire for scum hunting her. I realize I've barely skimmed this game, but am I missing something?

Also Nacho - If you thought you were going to die last night, which you seemed to think you were at end of day when we thought we caught Syr (Sorry Syr btw ), why wouldn't you explore even not significant paranoia?

[Tammy]

Unless I just don't know how to read, Shes not the bride or groom.

[Tammy]

I think the thing bugging me the most about mama is the no case thing. But I kinda like the looking forward to us seeing her town flip thing. So dunno

Perot: hmmm. Why not use it on one of the claims or soft claims? I get paranoia about nacho.

[Tammy]

That's not what happened in WTP1 by the way. You were scummy and Nacho correctly identified you as scum. You claimed that you got turned into a survivor, not that you started out as a survivor. You flipped a survivor, which you always were by the way, which would have been turned into a serial killer.

How do you not have flavor on hand? Can't you just check your pm?

[Tammy]

Motivator is not an uncommon role. I've been a motivator a couple times. It's usually a town role but I've recently seen it as a scum role.

I'm just surprised at motivating me. I think it's pretty obvious what I am if you've read my posts.

[Tammy]

Do be do be do be do be

Subject: Mini 1507: WE THE PURPLE

So for the record here's what happened.

My alignment during the last night changed. I went from a wincon with the town to a survivor. Meaning I can win with any alignment. This is one reason why I hate bastard games because along with that it says it could possibly change again. ._.

Basically I'm lynched or even NK'd I lose which just pisses me off.

The reason why I'm demanding a case is due to this to see if I can gain any reactions to what the fuck happened to me in the last night phrase.

Subject: Mini 1507: WE THE PURPLE

There is no guilty on me? I thought you were just fucking around about that.

I was nachomamma8 and aligned with the town. I was a VT.

Now I'm just told that I'm a survivor and I have to survive til endgame and can win with either side, but there's a chance that my alignment could change again without notice. I no longer have a name with this new role. ._.

Subject: Mini 1507: WE THE PURPLE

Cabd I think I was the reason for the No kill last night possibly. If mafia has a way to change alignments it would be unfair to allow them to do it and kill on the same night, but maybe I'm used to that from my homesite for balance issues.

The fact is if this is a scum play by me I had to be thinking WAY ahead for me to do this. I would have to no kill and then make sure I was the lynch today to claim, but even then I had to be sure I could pull it off. Do you really think this is a scum gambit for me?

[Tammy]

Oh hey, she demanded a case there too. Hmmm.

Ap - I'm not sure. I just turned in my portfolio which means I'm free to do other things. I still have a fair amount of grading to do, and my brain needs a little break. I'm going to start getting actually caught up here today and tomorrow.

[Tammy]

Gm - I had a question to ask about the reads list. Do you not have a read on Mara? (After all that defending of you she did it just seems kinda rude! :p )

[Tammy]

I'd be up for hearing it. I don't know how much there is to actually hide right now what with all the soft and hard claims.

Mala - Why don't you have a town read on Notty?

[Tammy]

I reread through pie's iso earlier, not sure where empire is finding any meat, and while I don't understand any town read there, I'm also not scum reading her.

My paranoid fantasy has nacho/pie/empire as a scum team who are just town reading each other for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Like I'm completely absolutely baffled that Nacho has pie as his strongest town read. She hasn't done shit. Like the biggest thing was EMPIRE YOU TAKE THAT BACK HOW DARE YOU SCUMHUNT ME IN A MAFIA GAME YOU CAN'T READ ME RAWR which while the overreaction is heartwarming cuz it's nice to know that I'm not the only crazy person, that's literally the only thing she's done. Or the only thing I remember her doing after just reading her iso a couple hours ago. I was going to say that she didn't have any scum reads, but there was that anemic push on AP I forgot about.

I think that Bork's really strong town read on Nati came from her thinking that it was mountainous.

Still don't know why Mala would motivate me.

I had something else. Not sure about Marquis. I don't think that remembering to talk about gif in a game means he's town. Bro could be a mafia miller? IDK

[Tammy]

AP - If I didn't have a decent townread on you I'd be pretty weirded out that you have me a strong town read. Although now that I think about it notty's ability to read me has been declining pretty steadily lately, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised there.

Yeah, I don't really believe Empire is scum, it's just that the strong town read and reasoning has me a bit perplexed. In part because it's basically coming to its conclusion based on the idea that someone can't learn how to inject emotion into their scum games.

[Tammy]

Before I go to bed, really quickly: I thought the reason bork might have died is because the mafia could have thought he was in some sort of masonry or something role-related like that with Nati or maybe they even thought they were the B+G (though it'd be a bit silly considering how bork opened this game)? In my mind, when I thought about it, it could explain why bork townread Nati so strongly as he did basically throughout the entire game despite her not really posting much. The whole idea behind this and the reason I felt so strongly about bringing it up is because it would confirm Nati as town (as they would not have killed bork on this theory if Nati were scum) and she's been in my blind spot for basically the whole game.

Of course, there are some conventional explanations for why bork died. It could be because, silly people notwithstanding, he was widely considered obvtown and they just wanted to get rid of an unlynchable player. Or maybe he was actually on the right track (although I can't remember off the top of my head who he suspected). But I think it's still worth thinking about since I didn't expect him to die and based off of reactions, I don't think a lot of you guys did either.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well and writing this I feel pretty silly even bringing it up but here you go.

Why did you need opinions on whether or not you should bring this up? It's obviously not the case that they were part of a masonry since Bork flipped VT, so what would be the danger in just outing your theory when you had it.

I don't know who in this playerlist would have thought this though. I thought Bork was really obviously a VT yesterday for one. The progression he had on Nati looked like it was due to the players who outed having roles, and my theory is that the super strong town read came from Nati's belief that it was mountainous, which is the thing that makes the most sense to me.

I didn't look at Bork's opening but he didn't make sense with a bride or groom suspicion, but I've known who one of them is since yesterday, so that could just be me.

I'd be surprised if anyone in this playerlist actually killed him for the above.

[Tammy]

Was gonna finish catching up real quick, but I'm heading to the gym, so please hold for about an hour or so. I will be around on and off for most of the day today. I still have a shit ton of grading to finish but it's somewhat manageable, so.

I'm not concerned about Nacho because he hasn't been around this Day. He's been pretty busy, so I know he's not avoiding this game. I still like a few things from yesterday. Anyway I'll talk about my concerns there in a little bit when I get back. I could also be disheartened that he had any paranoia on me really. I guess it's not impossible, but I just think there are some things that I wouldn't have even thought to say or react to the way I did and I thought he'd pick up on that but I could be wrong. IDK.

Anyway, in a little bit.

[Tammy]

Ah gotcha.

[Tammy]

i don't think there's a cop in the game

Okay I just remembered that Nacho made this post, which is the same kind of thinking I had in Butterfly when Mara and I were trackers. We didn't think there would be a cop in the game and so when Cabd claimed an amnesiac cop we thought for sure he was lying.

So, either he is the tracker or he was planning it since the beginning.

The thing is with Syry, I think that AP was questioning Nacho's reaction and read there? I might be misremembering the who's and the what's but that was exactly what I expected from a town Nacho with a potential scum Syr. Nacho does read some people based off of interactions and tone. In ADwD when Syr and I had a neighborhood I had given Syr a town read and said it was mostly because he was making me laugh and Nacho commented that it was a good way to read Syr in particular. In the open game when Syr was my partner, he interacted with Nacho all wrong when Nacho was pushing him and made Nacho 100% convinced that Syr was scum and he was right.

So, if Nacho is telling the truth and he is the town tracker, then scum do have a role blocker and he was kept alive for a reason. Yeah, they get to neutralize him with the role blocker - I left a tracker alive until LyLo once because I was a role blocker and he'd be completely neutralized. The role blocker can make sense for why there's two investigatives maybe? Neither one are particularly strong because they're only really effective either later in the game or if they get a positive. So, scum left him alive for another reason. Maybe to try to get him mislynched because he didn't think that Syr and his role existed as town? But no one is pushing that, so. IDK

I still do want him to answer why Pie is such a god tier town read for him when she hasn't done anything. And I want him to answer why if he was even slightly paranoid of me that he didn't poke at me even the tiniest bit before the day ended when he thought he was dying. He said earlier in the day that if he sees any weirdness from me or empire then he's going to try to solve that, so I don't know why he didn't.

I'm still feeling more likely town than not though, I think. Stay tuned.

[Tammy]

OK. this is going to sound really stupid, but a large part of the reason I gave up on pushing AP so quickly was because he's an insanely active player, and I felt like (and still do, mostly) unless I'm capable of matching it, he's going to be able to twist/mischaracterize whatever I'm saying and fling it back in my face, at which point I'll likely be lynched. I don't have faith given my RL (it was free but now I'm really occupied with something else) that I'd be able to look adequately town or respond to/comment on everything necessary to lynch him. AP, as far as I can tell, is one of those ridiculously active scum players whose main weapon is sheer force of will. the last thing I need to do is launch a push on him, especially when he's universally town read, I'm not, and he's voting me.

I've already seen it happen with the initial 2 points I brought up way back when that everyone now thinks were anemic/not compelling, even though I still think they were good looking back on it. which is kinda dumb because I hardly elaborated on them but it still scares me : x

I have a PR btw and if everything goes correctly, I will not be making it to LYLO this game.

p-edit: the first line of 1373 is exactly what I'm talking about btw

WHAT?

Couple things do not match up here.

When have you ever shied away from pushing someone you think is scum? You also think that you'd be lynched for attacking AP here with this playerlist? That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. Your push was anemic because there was no oomph to it. Yes, you gave a couple reasons for why you thought he was scum, but you didn't do anything with it. You didn't try to get anyone to see it. You didn't push him over it at all.

I'm just completely perplexed that you would not push someone you think is scum because of your fear of being mislynched. That doesn't even come close to the Pie I've ever played with or seen play especially when your pushes are what gets you town read most of the time. In this playerlist a good, convincing case is what people are expecting and looking for - although yes, I know you're perfectly capable of doing that as scum now - but still the fear that you'll get lynched for pushing ap is mind boggling.

Not only that, but you're claiming to have a PR! Having a PR usually gives people a sense of invincibility because having a pr lessens the chance of being mislynched (yesterday notwitshstanding, but it is unusual.) But, yesterday's lynch of Syry doesn't make sense for why you'd have been afraid before he was mislynched and even today you see that people are dancing around gm and mala because they've claimed prs.

So, yeah, none of this makes any sense. I mean, if you were a meek little girl sure, but you have a tendency to drive the game in the direction you want it to go everyone else be damned so I'm not getting this you were afraid to push ap because you might get lynched instead mentality.

[Tammy]

HOW ARE PEOPLE READING PIE AS TOWN???

explain it to me like I'm five because I don't see it not at all.

Nacho - Where the hell is that god tier town read coming from. Like she's just so my mind is fucking blown. And quite frankly I'm insulted you expressed paranoia on me at all while having Pie as your strongest town read. This is me, sitting in the corner, holding my breath with my arms crossed in front of me, insulted.

[Tammy]

Why is your read on Tammy what it is? Was curious that you think shes scummy when most people don't. Not that you're wrong, I'm open to exploring new paranoia any day.

I freaked out at 1346. she's been in a few games with me, and seen somewhat recent versions of both my town play, and my scum play. I do think I've got better at integrating emotion into my scum game, but I'm nowhere near perfect at it, and I would expect her to know this. so, it felt odd that she would essentially entirely dismiss the observation on me Empire (who has also seen my recent town/scum play) made (skeptical yes, entirely write it off no).

I wouldn't lynch her over it, though, since not only is it biased reasoning but I haven't really looked through or tried to understand the town reads on her yet. I've basically just accepted that even if she is scum I'll never get anywhere past looking at her awkwardly time to time because I feel like I don't have a _really_ good handle of what she's done this game.

You freaked out? Really? Because I saw nary a peep about it. Is there anything in that post at all that isn't correct? Are you doing anything this game AT ALL? Where are all those invisible posts I'm not able to see that show you doing something, anything.

I'm waiting.

And step off with you're bullshit. You were in those same games with me, so you don't get to do your hypocritical, she's seen me in games so she knows better when you're doubting any town read on me. And right back atcha chicky, empire pointed out where he thought I town told and you dismissed it as something I could fake, when you absolutely have no idea. And you should probably stop accusing people of shallow reads when dismissing something as "oh she can fake that" without looking at whether or not it would be faked and/or why or what the motivation of it town or scum would be is pretty much the shallowest reasoning for town/scum reading anyone ever. It's stupid easy to say with no backing whatsoever.

Feel free to claim what that "confirmable" role actually is by the way. And do you, supposedly with this "confirmable" role not actually have a problem with the amount of roles already claimed or softed this game???

[Tammy]

I feel like in Tales of You when I had the scum read on the Bork hydra and everyone was reading them as town and I was just so perplexed because Bork wasn't doing anything really.

[Tammy]

Um goodmorning, just so you know you can't complain that someone wants to lynch someone who's soft claimed while also saying that someone shouldn't wonder why someone who is a pr wouldn't be skeptical about people who have already soft claimed as well.

If you're recognizing it's a cabd game, then you'd have to recognize that we have to be careful of the claims and be skeptical of them.

Unless you're saying we should just lynch VTs, in which case you should be lynching me which would probably actually just be fine because apparently we can't get anything done in this game because everyone has to have their pet town reads they're not going to explain or even doubt and scum are probably just defending each other and we're not going to get a scum lynch in this game.

[Tammy]

Oh wait no don't lynch me

I have a role *wink wink*

It's just Wedding Guest

[Tammy]

Wedding Guest

You are just a guest at the wedding. I mean, what, did you really think Cabd and Penguin would start giving out real names of their IRL friends on a mafia game? Nope, no name for you. And no name? That means no role, either. Too bad, so sad.

You win: When the

demons

are completely eliminated and neither the

Bride

nor the

Groom

have been lynched.

Hi please don't say the Bride+Groom are scum when it's clear right here.

PS: If you think this game is anything other than 12-3 with Bride+Groom as the only power roles, I'd say you're 99% to be wrong.

PS: If you think this game is anything other than 12-3 with Bride+Groom as the only power roles, I'd say you're 99% to be wrong.

why?

Think about the purpose of this game.

It could be 13-2, now that I think about it, but unlikely.

I think this is why Bork had Nati as such a strong town read. With the roles that were being softed and claimed, it became more likely that scum would either be large or have a role or two (I could see a potential traitor actually), so Nati originally positing a mountainous with 13-2 means that she's more likely to be uninformed.

The question only becomes does she make these assumptions as scum, because it's something that scum can do. Though I do like the "I'd say you're 99% wrong" thing sounds real.

My only concern is that Nati wasn't up for claiming on day one when she usually is. There was a recent game where she was scum and wouldn't claim, so that had me worried initially, but I'm not sure it's such a strong point of concern considering this setup.

[Tammy]

Hey look at that Tammy towned without going ballistic.

It happens sometimes!

Unless that was sarcasm

[Tammy]

Well to be fair, I thought cabd and penguin were going to be playing in this game and I thought it was going to be a large (still grumbling about that one I really don't think it was right to blindside us with a blitz there's a reason I haven't signed up for blitz games!), so not thinking that part through doesn't concern me a whole lot.

I'm not sure that not picking up on that which could have been an RVS joke is a scum tell.

IDK I suppose, I'm just not sure I believe Nati went the fake dumbtell route.

[Tammy]

Although I kinda want to lynch good morning for the you don't lunch someone who has softed thing.

[Tammy]

Then what did you mean by everyone ignores my posts and then thinks yeah let's lynch someone who's already softed, like that's a great idea?

Me!

[Tammy]

Right there with you notty!

We don't need a parade. If people haven't recognized the obvious yet, a parade wouldn't help.

[Tammy]

I don't get why you not being around makes you afraid of writing a case pie.

I'm listening on marquis though!

[Tammy]

Leaning town, I think. I'm really just starting to get my bearings.

(And I'm posting from the ice rink. How's that for a town tell?)

@notty

[Tammy]

Yeah, I want to lynch good morning. The only hesitation I had was that she was sorting protective but she's not and I'd believe our over her I think. I hate her lists today.

[Tammy]

VOTE: goodmorning

She needs to claim

[Tammy]

UNVOTE:

Think she's at L-1 which is fine by me, but I'm getting ready to head out for a couple hours and won't be near a computer or my phone very reliably.

But, I'm wondering why there's a bodyguard with a tracker and a kill cop. Maybe it's nothing but it's weird.

[Tammy]

Okay I don't know what to do with that or that reaction.

I'll think about it while out.

[Tammy]

Um hold up one sec. I believe we have caught scum.

[Tammy]

Oh wait never mind. I thought marquis claimed mother of the bride. Carry on

[Tammy]

I *believe* what we're seeing is scum-Marquis attempting to claim early

Ah yes, the rare and elusive scum!Marquis in his natural habitat. You'll notice the telltale scummy signs of tripping over himself to claim and if you look closely enough you'll see his primal instincts kicking in, attempting to camouflage himself in with a townclaim in his own habitat. In this particular case, the unsuspecting victim has claimed bodyguard. Unbeknownst to the real bodyguard, Marquis is already on the prowl for his next mislynch. The guise is not perfect though and some well-adapted would-be prey can spot the fake claim encroaching on their territory due to the nature of the flavor and the pixels.

This is the best post ever.

10/10 would read 10 times.

[Tammy]

I don't want you to throw a tantrum, I want you to claim.

[Tammy]

Your shoe size.

Or your fucking role. You know that one ounce been softing, that whole reason you think you shouldn't be lynched.

[Tammy]

Good morning not looking at all these roles critically at all is really concerning.

I mean, let me guess, she's the flower girl and at night she throws flower on people. Or the wedding planner and at night she sends people invitations?

I could potentially see two bodyguards if they were dedicated to one person each, but yeah. Idk I'm going to trivia. Later.

[Tammy]

goodmorning, marquis, bro?

[Tammy]

Goodmorning is probably the best lynch right now anyway.

Also, I doubt that scum get something from killing the happy couple like Bro suggested, but if they were out to kill them then scum are made up of people completely not paying attention, which is part of where I became sure that pie was scum earlier, but ugh IDK.

[Tammy]

Does anyone know what she's at? I'm going to bed soon.

[Tammy]

Okay, I'm going to wait and then right before I go to sleep I'm voting good morning.

[Tammy]

okay going to sleep sooner than I thought.

VOTE: goodmorning

[Tammy]

I still find pie's interaction today with ap problematic though.

[Tammy]

Gif was also problematic though :/

[Tammy]

Idk but I don't have the awareness to parse through two people I've thought were scummy on and off right now cuz I'm really near passing out.

[Tammy]

I don't think there's just one scum left. I think she just redacted the rest of the scum team.

[Tammy]

Heh I just re read Mala's ISO and had the same reaction. Mala says she's only seen gm scum recent.y so she wouldn't know what gm town looked like anymore, but why would that preclude her from seeing gm as scum? She also claims they've been mislynched a bunch recently, but if gm has only been scum recently then how has she been mislynched a bunch. I also noticed her trying to tie gm to Mara which just looked pretty slimy in presentation.

[Tammy]

ffery - shouldn't we have some extra time this day phase?

[Tammy]

Not sure.

But I'm feeling bad on malakittens. I was just looking at her end of the day with good morning and it's all I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH YIU and then interaction about the bgs which looks meh. But what I hate is that she's trying to say that ap is trying to set nacho up for a mislynch

while calling ap town

which makes no sense.

I'll need to retread through notty but I'll probably do that after I get home from the post office.

[Tammy]

Thank you!

[Tammy]

I've been drinking on top of grading so I have no coherent thoughts, but why would we negate a couple due to an established meta if they are independently scummy. That's saying that people can't act against meta in order to fulfill their sinfonia which is just what.

[Tammy]

Potential prod dodge. Grading and stuff.

[Tammy]

the truthfully in post 1354 is bugging the crap out of me.

[Tammy]

I finally submitted final grades!

I have some errands to run, then I'll be back, this is just a prod dodge.

[Tammy]

and yes I have thought about it and I doubt you actually are what you're softing. I think you're hoping you can backtrack out of it later without being called on it.

you can attempt to mischaracterize my posts all you want, btw, it's not going to work. not only should my role confirm me as town under the right circumstances, if you actually try and lynch me, I'll crush your face in. ~

What did you think he was softing and why did you think he could back out of it?

[Tammy]

and yes I have thought about it and I doubt you actually are what you're softing. I think you're hoping you can backtrack out of it later without being called on it.

you can attempt to mischaracterize my posts all you want, btw, it's not going to work. not only should my role confirm me as town under the right circumstances, if you actually try and lynch me, I'll crush your face in. ~

Oh I thought the other part I wanted to respond to was another post.

I'd like you to talk about the crush your face in part. What did you mean by that? Were you threatening that you'd get him lynched instead?

[Tammy]

AP you feel like scum desperately trying to keep your lynch options open in the future.

Is this a serious post that you just made?

[Tammy]

Are you really suspicious of AP?

[Tammy]

Right but goodmorning didn't. She showed no indication she realized what mara had been softing since her earliest posts. But then again neither did Mala or pie.

Goodmorning not seeming to recognize maras softing is why I don't think bros assertion that they got something for killing one of the couple is true because you'd think at the very least you'd pick up on that if you were looking for it.

[Tammy]

Okay this setup is bananas. If we believe everyone so far we've got:

cabd
penguin - two ic lovers

miller
tracker
kill cop
bodyguard
bodyguard
motivator

against a rolecop
roleblocker
???

no one else has indicated any roles.

IDK I'll probably vote mala because that makes the most sense. If she is an actual motivator then Nacho or Pie might be lying.

[Tammy]

I don't think so

[Tammy]

Flew and have been with family all day. I know deadline is soon, but in exhausted. I'll sleep on it.

[Tammy]

I'm debating while running errands.

[Tammy]

Feh. I'm about to be driving the rest of deadline.

VOTE: malakittens

If nothing else this might help clear up the setup and hopefully if pie does happen to be a town bodyguard she'll die tonight and I can stop worrying about her.

[Tammy]

congratulations Cabd and penguin!

[Tammy]

Congratulations demons!

Why did you kill me?

[Tammy]

Thanks for running it ffery and congratulations cabd and penguin!