[setup] Hanahaki Disease

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Post Post #1 (isolation #0) » Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:16 pm

Post by Jingle »

Functionally I think this makes the scum kill into a loverize, as Player A will virtually always be the person scum want killed. Player B could ignore this and cascade the rest of the chain but to do so is functionally a scum claim. To that end you can probably safely assume all chosen players are town, RAW.
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Post Post #3 (isolation #1) » Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:11 am

Post by Jingle »

I haven't had a chance to look at all four cases (Or even any cases) in depth, but my impression is that choosing two town is always going to be the right choice if you're allowed to Pair A and B on N1 and B and C on N2.

I think A being scum and B being town is always a bad idea though, just based on said initial impressions.
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Post Post #7 (isolation #2) » Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:29 am

Post by Jingle »

In post 4, Datisi wrote:what about adding in the fix that players who are in a lover pair cannot be chosen anymore, as either role?
It definitely changes the way the setup works entirely, in a way I'm not certain is desirable. Giving the scumteam a way to make the loverize a kill instead of a glorified Sbomb (can't remember the term replace, sorry if it makes you uncomfortable) is probably a little too scumsided but likely could be fixed with numbers tweaks.

Pairing Cases (A/B):

S/S- Designed to make the pair look town, high risk play in that if either player trips up the team loses both. Probably not worth it. Even if scum chooses to decline for towncred, Player B would then be expected to be paired with a scummy player as an A and thus might be incidentally limmed despite being townread, so the bussing is low effectiveness.

S/T- Unlikely to happen, as B would be able to just kill A and scum get's absolutely no utility in that case. Lower chance of occuring if chaining into eliminations is possible. Could be done as a gambit, but still high risk low reward as the S here functionally has to endgame to be useful.

T/T- Probably the most likely result as it's high reward for scum. In the case that the scumteam functions as arsonists, this probably is the only reasonable choice, as on D4 scum can kill 3 players in return for outing their scummiest member.

T/S- Second most likely result, probably ties a relatively weak scum to a relatively strong town. Could also tie a midling scum as insurance should they suddenly develop suspicion, but likely does not sacrifice a scum player that wouldn't have died anyway.

Proposed strategy: Eliminate in the unpaired pool as long as there is guaranteed to be scum within to incentivize S/S pairing, then eliminate scummiest individual regardless of pools, with the caveat that anti associative behavior is probably more interesting as a scumhunting strategy than normal. Based on the proposed scumteam proportion, I think the version without double pairing loverizes is potentially the more balanced of the two, although I would suggest that it offers more potential strategy if instead of being unable to pair an already paired player the loverize breaks all pairs currently on the players it's used on.
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Post Post #8 (isolation #3) » Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:31 am

Post by Jingle »

I still think you functionally always get an acceptance of the lover pairs, though, because scum should never make a pair they think will result in a scum being turned down by town.
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Post Post #10 (isolation #4) » Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:56 am

Post by Jingle »

3v8 is theoretically scumsided for a scumteam with a 1 shot factional, which is probably the closest this models to without seeing it run. If the scumteam kills obvtown prior to XLO, they're making a 1:1 trade which is a good thing for town numbers wise.

Given both the nature of our townsided meta and the nightless adjacent style of the game, that's the set of numbers I'd try to use to establish a baseline. if you're letting the scumteam chain lovers, 10:3 is probably closer to balanced, possibly even a little too scumsided.
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