[SETUP] Pick the Deck

[Irrelephant11]

I think this is awesome (Ausuka showed it to me before posting here and I gave minor feedback).

I'm curious if anyone wants to try to make the "overly scumsided setups" that a setup like this supposedly threatens to create. I think it's easy to suggest an obvious scumsided meta would come about, and harder to prove it

Like, taking S_S's idea that a bunch of town protectives would be scumsided:
Doctor (8)
Rolestopper (7)
Jailkeeper (8)
Roleblocker (6)
9 VT
-
1-shot strongman (.3x12 so 4)
Backup strongman (.4x12 so 5)
Goon

Town now has 4 protectives who, once claimed, are semi-cleared (because if they're not the TPRs, who fills the giant power gap? It's not like scum will want to jump into that mechanical PoE w/ a fakeclaim most of the time)

Town has a good chance of stopping 2 kills, meaning scum has to miselim 6 times before town elims the 3 mafia. That doesn't feel that scumsided to me?? Especially because as soon as a mafia strongman flips, the four TPRs are basically confirmed town. Maybe scum busses the 1-shot strongman to activate their backup strongman. Town then has a reasonable chance at guessing that happened by way of setup spec, and knows to look for bussing. I think the open nature of the setup eliminates a lot of the fears of scumsidedness people are expressing

[Irrelephant11]

Because town has to hit 20 points minimum.

So either:

1. Scum gives three very powerful TPRs and takes 0 counter-roles. Scum can fakeclaim easily but now town has three very powerful TPRs with 0 mafia counter-roles. Not that scumsided
2. Scum gives 5 very powerful TPRs and takes some counter-power, like a strongman shot or two. Scum has ways to counteract town's night actions, but can't fakeclaim very easily (because they'd get cc'd, since there can't be duplicates of things)

Yes, the fact that both of these are possibilities means you can't 100% trust when a TPR claims. But in a massclaim scenario, you've now got e.g. 5 strong roles, and there's no way that more than 2 of those are lies. Or you've got 5 weak claims and 2 strong claims, and it's extremely unlikely both strong claims are lies, etc. And then any future scum flips help narrow down how likely it is that the PR claims are town or not, based on the point values of things.

Like I said,

make

the "scumsided" setup. Then when you spend a little longer considering the open nature of that setup, I think the fears of scumsidedness melt away a significant amount.

[Irrelephant11]

If this gets run a million times, I'm sure some of the role choices will become obvious and it will need tweaks to stay interesting

But from where I'm sitting it's an interesting setup without obvious choices (partially by virtue of being complicated) meaning scum will have to experiment for at least the first few times it's run. I don't see huge flaws and I think anyone who signs up for this setup is likely to be the kind of person who would enjoy rolling scum and designing the setup

I'm sure lots of little tweaks could help, though (but also some of it probably just needs run to see how it actually ~works~). Maybe strongman should be 4/kill-stopping TPR?

[Irrelephant11]

I like GUNPHORIA

In practice it's vengeful, innocent child, 1-shot vig, gunsmith-who's-worth-roughly-one-inno (either by claiming or by finding a town neighbor), against 2 goons and a white flag traitor. It's super weird and setup spec would be bizarre (and there's a chance the gunsmith is mafia, which certainly adds WIFOM) but as long as players remember to prioritize dayplay (since nightplay setup stuff is full of WIFOM) I think it's fairly balanced, especially because it's 15p.

I also like SS's setup. Silly, yes, but 15p cop+weak gunsmith (both of whom are conftown themselves unless scum dare to muddy the roleclaim waters) seems pretty townsided actually. By day 2 you could have 4 semi-innos. 6 semi-innos by the time it's down to 11 players.
Ohhhhhhh I see the problem with this setup now - haha ha scum knows exactly who the cop and gunsmith are. Yeah maybe an upper limit on the # of neighbors is needed