[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Thok]

Nominate Dethy

Second hohum's choices.

[Thok]

Clever name goes here

2 Scum
1 Recruiting mason
6 Townies

Scum & masons each get a quicktopic, recruiting mason dies if he targets scum, recruiting is not compulsory.
I was considering putting a watcher/night watchman in there, but wasn't sure if it was necessary... thoughts?

I'd suggest making the masons not have the ability to night-talk. Otherwise the recruiting mason ends up being too much of a cop. Hypocop issues might be a problem also (have everybody claim their night targets each day.)

[Thok]

If the roleblock and jailkeeper target each other, is the roleblocker protected from nightkills?

(Everything else is straightforward.)

[Thok]

Mith's definition is stupid as any game could be played in a way that's not mafia. So every game is broken. So I was right.

You're missing the words "optimized" or "optimal". The point is that there's no reason to play any other way because it lowers the chance of winning.

[Thok]

If Mith is right then the Texas Justice method isn't broken because its random instead of scum hunting, right?

The only random part is the pairing up. If you really want, I can make that not random by making the algorithm for pairing up concrete and saying that you should always pair the 1st, 3rd, 5th, ... player on the list with the 2nd, 4th, 6th, ... player respectively.

Sera: So every game is broken because there is always an optimum way of winning.

You've also seemed to have missed the "boring and not mafia" part of the definition.

Basically, the real point is that mafia is about discussion (asking question, presenting cases and persuading your fellow players), and the broken strategies don't involved discussion.

[Thok]

Thok: That's still worse that scum hunting.

If you're saying that the game isn't broken because the Texas Justice strategy doesn't work as well as scum hunting for that set up, then I agree (because the Texas Justice method only gives a 25% chance of winning in that set up.)

I thought you were saying that the process wasn't optimal because it's random.

I was responding to Sera's definition. Where was "boring and not mafia"?

Not mafia was part of mith's definition. Boring was an addition of my own: the problem with broken games are not they aren't balanced (if that was the case then nobody would want to play SK), but because they stop being interesting because there's much less actual play involved.

The difference is between "Lynch the person the cop says is scum each day" and "Lynch the person that seems the scummiest after 3-7 pages of discussion." One of these requires skill and the other requires one person to remember to do a night action each night and the rest of the people to vote what that person says.

[Thok]

Normal 4P

2 Mafia

2 Double Voters

Weird set up. I think it's broken by having a random player X vote a random player Y and waiting for a vote count before any other votes (as in quick lynch anybody who doesn't agree to follow this plan.)

1/6 of the time you just lose (townie votes townie)
1/2 of the time a mafia is forced to vote, and no quick lynch is possible. Then you have one confirmed scum, and you vote that scum one player at a time, waiting for a vote count to determine whether players have one or two votes.
1/3 of the time townie vote mafia, and you get a confirmed townie and a confirmed mafia (townie has 2 votes, mafia wasn't quick lynched) and have the other two players vote the confirmed mafia one at a time.

So that's a town win 5/6 of the time (or roughly 83% of the time) with a degenerate strategy.

There are some variations to the above with scum quicklynching themselves and choosing not to nightkill, but to make this playable you need to do something about vote counts.

[Thok]

Doc can't stop a Grenade:

3 Vanilla
1 Doctor
1 Cop
2 Mafia

Mafia has a nightkill, which they have a one shot ability to make unblockable. (Hence the name: normal the mafia shoots people, but once a game they throw a grenade instead.)

[Thok]

Mafia is OP....
In a newbie game there are 2 mafia 1 cop and once doc and 5 townies sometimes and that is balanced... This has 2 less townies and mafia has more power. It's lylo day 2.

3 Vanilla, cop, doc, 2 mafia favors towns.

That said, the whole "Lynch or lose on day two" is a reason to push it to 5 vanilla + cop + doc + 2 mafia with a one shot unblockable kill.