[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Amrun]

^^ How would 2 mafia lovers work?

[Amrun]

I really like it, Tragedy! That's a good idea. Very original.

[Amrun]

Crazy, isn't your game nightless? How does the mafia win in that game? Is he just a guy with a vote that has to be one of the last two in LyLo?

[Amrun]

Okay, let's see if this is better.

Operating Room

MAFIA

1

Mafia Goon

1

Mafia Roleblocker

1

Mafia Doctor

TOWN

3

Doctors

7

Vanilla Townies

Special Mechanics:

~If 2 or more Doctors (Including the Mafia) target the same person, that person dies.

Out of curiosity, what is the flavor justification for mafia roleblocker?

I like the special mechanic a lot.


I kind of want to use this set-up, to be perfectly honest, but I didn't think of it myself.

[Amrun]

Why would a doctor announce who he/she is going to protect anyways?

With 4 doctors in the game (3 town doctors), it's likely one will announce, because if 2 people protect the same person, that person dies.

Not sure how announcing gives scum a free kill.

However, a viable strategy for scum is to announce I'm going to protect x so that they get a free kill that night.

[Amrun]

Oh, wait, nvm, I do see how it gives scum a free kill. Hmm.

Well, that would be the risk in announcing protect, therefore it's unlikely doctors would claim who they protect.

Interesting.

[Amrun]

Okay, let's see if this is better.

Operating Room

MAFIA

1

Mafia Goon

1

Mafia Roleblocker

1

Mafia Doctor

TOWN

3

Doctors

7

Vanilla Townies

Special Mechanics:

~If 2 or more Doctors (Including the Mafia) target the same person, that person dies.

I think this is more balanced if the mafia doctor doesn't count towards (2 or more doctors) requirement.

[Amrun]

^ UNLESS mafia gets no faction kill until the doctor is dead.

[Amrun]

chkflip, pretty sure your set-up is too swingy for a lot of people on this site to like it. Personally, I don't mind that, but it annoys most people here.

[Amrun]

Olinea, what is Macho?

Question about this thread: How do we know if any set-up in this thread has been "approved?" Do we just propose it to farside ourselves if we want to mod?

[Amrun]

shotty, I like it. I'm all for short, fun games. :p

[Amrun]

I like that twist on the faith healers, but it also makes the set-up even swingier, imho. Both options look interesting to me.

[Amrun]

If the Goon kills everybody at the party they attend, how is the Watcher useful? He only observes the party that he attends, so he'll die.

This. Also, how are party attendees determined?

[Amrun]

I'll nth or vote the faith healer mafia. It looks fun and I liked it when it was proposed.

[Amrun]

Do scum also get a normal NK in that scenario?

[Amrun]

Scales of Justice:

5x vanilla townies
2x (33% chance of mafia roleblocker, mafia godfather [receives a goon role PM], mafia goon [no duplicates])

-- if mafia roleblocker + mafia goon --
1x doctor
1x (50% chance of cop or watcher)

-- if mafia godfather + mafia roleblocker --
1x watcher
1x (50% chance of doc or cop)

-- if mafia godfather + mafia goon --
1x cop
1x (50% chance of doc or watcher)

I generated a few games with this setup with the results in spoilers.

Spoiler: Results

FOR SETUP GENERATION:
1 - goon
2 - gf
3 - rb
4 - cop
5 - doc
6 - watcher
7-11 - vt
________________________

1. --goon--
2. --gf--
3. cop
4. watcher
5-9. vt5, --vt6--, vt7, vt8, vt9

d1
lynch gf

n1
goon kills vt6
cop investigates goon
watcher watches cop

d2
lynch goon - GAME (TOWN)


1. goon
2. --gf--
3. --cop--
4. --doc--
5-9. --vt5--, --vt6--, --vt7--, vt8, --vt9--

d1
lynch vt6

n1
goon kills vt5
cop investigates vt5
doc protects goon

d2
lynch gf

n2
goon kills doc
cop investigates doc
doc protects goon

d3
lynch vt7

n3
goon kills cop
cop investigates goon

d4
lynch vt9 - GAME (MAFIA)


1. goon
2. rb
3. doc
4. cop
5-9. --vt5--, --vt6--, --vt7--, --vt8--, --vt9--

d1
lynch vt9

n1
rb kills vt6
rb blocks doc
doc protects vt8
cop investigates vt8

d2
lynch vt7

n2
rb kills vt8
rb blocks doc
doc protects vt5
cop investigates vt5

d3
lynch vt5 (cop is ccd) - GAME (MAFIA)


1. rb
2. gf
3. --watcher--
4. doctor
5-9. --vt5--, --vt6--, --vt7--, --vt8--, vt9

d1
lynch watcher

n1
gf kills vt7
rb blocks vt6
doc protects vt8

d2
lynch vt6

n2
gf kills vt5
rb blocks doc
doc protects rb

d3
lynch vt8 (GAME - MAFIA)


1. gf
2. --rb--
3. --watcher--
4. --doc--
5-9. --vt5--, --vt6--, --vt7--, vt8, vt9

d1
lynch vt6

n1
gf kills vt7
rb blocks vt8
watcher watches vt8
doc protects vt5

d2
watcher outs
doctor outs
gf claims doctor
rb claims watcher
lynch doctor

n2
gf kills watcher
rb blocks nobody
watcher watches himself

d3
lynch rb

n3
gf kills vt5

d4
lynch gf (GAME - TOWN)


1. --goon--
2. gf
3. --cop--
4. --doc--
5-9. - --vt5--, --vt6--, vt7, vt8, --vt9--

d1
lynch vt9

n1
goon kills cop
cop investigates gf
doc protects gf

d2
lynch goon

n2
gf kills vt7
doc protects vt7

d3
should doc out (if him or vt7 not being lynched)? (y/n) n
lynch vt7 (doc outs with saved, lynch cancelled)
lynch vt5

n3
gf kills doc
doc protects vt7

d4
lynch vt6 (GAME - MAFIA)

Thoughts and nominations kthx

Looks interesing.

Nominate.

[Amrun]

Doc who's protection works over two nights instead of just one.

Does the mage protect each night?
If so bad

I was a white mage who protected every night, once. But I was scum on a small team in a large game.

[Amrun]

CJdrum: Thieves do not RB.

Unless it is a specific part of the mechanic, mafia cannot delay kills like that.

[Amrun]

Thieves don't steal abilities.

[Amrun]

Make the bulletproofs 1-shot.

[Amrun]

Or one of them 1-shot and one of them 2-shot.

[Amrun]

Nightless Vengeful Mayhem

2 Mafia Goons
1 Two-Shot Day Goon

8 Vanilla Townies

Notes

Two-Shot Day Goon can choose to shoot anyone during the game any time. Limited to two uses.
When a VT has been lynched on D1, s/he can choose to take someone else down with him/her. Only affects D1.

Interesting.....
I assume the scum member PM's the mod to let them know who they would kill. Also the mafia member who is the shotter should only be allowed to do the action once per day.

Nominate

this with farside's adjustments.

[Amrun]

I like the medical one a lot.

[Amrun]

I think the flavor should be like field surgeons in Afghanistan or something, and a catchy title could come out of that.

[Amrun]

Two protective roles? No.

[Amrun]

2 Mafia Goons
1 Town One-Shot Executioner
9 Vanilla Townies

-Mafia have daytalk.
-"Half the required lynch votes" is rounded up.
-An execution does

not

end the day.

Does the executioner work in LyLo?

[Amrun]

I don't understand how it's generated.

[Amrun]

I don't understand how it's generated.

- Every player PMs the mod with the alignment he wishes to receive.
- The mod counts alignment choices.
- If less than one or more than six players selected "anti-town", some players' alignments are changed randomly.
- The setup is selected depending on the number of anti-town players.
- Everybody gets his role PM with the chosen alignment (or the changed alignment) and a random role.

This is cool.

Nominate this Set Up

[Amrun]

Do scum get a kill?

[Amrun]

My initial impression is that it's town-sided.

[Amrun]

Interesting... Is the governor ability x-shot?

I'd like to see this run. I feel like there might be kinks to work out but I don't see them yet. My initial thought was town-sided, but after thinking about, I'm not sure.

One thing: would town's optimal strategy be to claim letters from the start? (Probably not.) Alternatively, would this game be broken by townies one at a time sacrificing themselves if they have the right letter?

[Amrun]

See the Execution Mafia series.

Which is town sided...

[Amrun]

Basic balance facts:

10:2 mountainous is heavily scumsided
11:2 maayyyy be balanced, but is probably still scumsided.

All setups should take that into consideration.

That's a good point.

What would you say about 12:2 mountainous?

[Amrun]

Basic balance facts:

10:2 mountainous is heavily scumsided
11:2 maayyyy be balanced, but is probably still scumsided.

All setups should take that into consideration.

That's a good point.

What would you say about 12:2 mountainous?

More scumsided than 11:2

Why?

[Amrun]

Follow the Cop ... Or Not is the name of a previous set-up.

[Amrun]

I really like the idea actually. Good scumhunters become suspect, because what if they are mafia with a result? Interesting.

It def. needs more town.

[Amrun]

wut

[Amrun]

Second all of the above.

[Amrun]

I actually really like turning the Mafia Godfather into a Rolecop. I think that's a better solution.

I'm pretty confused by JasonWazza saying something is scum sided and then suggesting that the power be decreased?

Yes, as soon as the Watcher reveals, he's dead. That's basically the same as any PR ever. A follow the cop situation is bad.

[Amrun]

Rob, I think we should change gf to rolecop.

[Amrun]

Yeah, but new change would give scum a rolecop there to combat it. That was one of my concerns but I hadn't figured out a way to fix it. RC is the obvious answer.

[Amrun]

Yeah, a doc+watcher is not going to happen.

[Amrun]

I think watchers are balanced for incorrectly most of the time. They're extremely OP.

[Amrun]

In which set up?

[Amrun]

Yeah, not sure why you think that makes it less "scum sided," as that's a nerf and I don't like it anyway.

It isn't a scum sided set up at all, though. It's actually one of the more town sided ones.

[Amrun]

Why would you do that?

[Amrun]

Tamuz, there's very little actual pro-town motivation to do that.

Siv: how so? We thought a long time for a way to solve that problem. It's a tough one to solve.

[Amrun]

Okay, now that I think about it, it's still probably more optimal to claim "doctor or commuter." That's an issue we can work together in the thread to solve. (We considered just putting a VT there, for example.)

But it does solve at least half the BP problem. The optimal option isn't to straight up lie and it doesn't teach newbies to claim BP which is likely to get them lynched in any other type of game.

[Amrun]

I really dislike jk+rb+bg in the same set up (and bg for this in general). I dislike jk+rb in the same set up if its meant for newbies, a d cop+doctor in the same set up at all.

[Amrun]

Not really.

[Amrun]

And...?

[Amrun]

Oh, derp. Aha.

[Amrun]

Doctor	Macho Cop	Mafia Rolecop
Vanilla Townie	Mafia Roleblocker	2-Shot Watcher
Mafia Goon	Tracker	Vanilla Townie

Discuss.

I like this pretty well, actually.

[Amrun]

For reasons not quite clear to me, that made me think of a possible improvement for Matrix6: what about replacing the 1-shot BP with a Universal Back-up (I'd probably drop the Universal part of the role name to avoid it looking too intimidating)? Seems like a reasonable and straightforward enough role (especially in a semi-open where you have a very good idea of what your role does) and I think it interacts nicely with both Jailkeeper and Tracker although admittedly it interacts less nicely with the Mafia RB.

That fixes just about every issue I had with the original for newbies. I think this is a sound improvement.