Datisi's Mini Normal Review, January 2022

[Something_Smart]

Ego. At first glance it looks extremely unlikely that the watcher gimmick will actually matter.

[Something_Smart]

It's 50/50, unless the watcher claims or softs, or if the enabler softs their info. Even if the enabler does die first, the mafia watcher enabler might already be dead, or the mafia might be able to figure out the watcher from the enabler's ISO, or the watcher might end up randomly run up or NK'd before they can use their power.

And even if they avoid all that, the watcher will have one or two days to catch scum before massclaim, if they're lucky.

[Something_Smart]

hmm. my first thought is to maybe buff the watcher into something like a cop, so that at least they can get each day's worth of usage if they do manage to outlive their enabler. though i haven't thought it through fully yet

This feels like a step in the wrong direction because it's dependent on so many things out of their control.

[Something_Smart]

i am assuming that silence means the answer is "no".

it actually means "it was a difficult enough question that I thought about it and then forgot about it".

I'm not a fan of enabler gimmicks, I generally feel like they add complexity and swing without really making the setup better.

I like the rolestopper vig idea better, I think. Why do you have an informed and an enabler rather than an informed enabler and a goon?

[Something_Smart]

I would not recommend putting a vanilla cop in your setup if your philosophy is that mafia goons are boring, is the thing.

[Something_Smart]

The bodyguard feels a bit counter to the point of the setup, because scum know they can bus the enabler to disable the protective and then oops there's another one. And a one-shot bodyguard can really only accomplish much if they wait for a PR to claim and then guard them.

I think there's significant swing on whether people treat gunsmith clears as clears; obviously in the worst case, they do consider them clear and then the doctor gets checked. If they don't, which is more likely and also happens to be correct, then I don't really see where town's power comes from.

[Something_Smart]

i was under the impression that gunsmith clears are generally considered to be Very Likely clears since there's very few roles that give a false negative. i know it't not 100%, but there's a middle ground?

weren't you the one that ran the game with 4 townies with guns and 3 mafia doctors or something

[Something_Smart]

if your point is that people will modmeta me and see that i like to test the limits of nrg like that, fair point i guess?

Yes, but more likely, your game is just going to naturally attract people who enjoy you as a mod and are familiar with your past games. If the gunsmith claims while any of these people are alive, they're likely to say something.

[Something_Smart]

With this many false guilties why does the gunsmith even have a false inno

Right now their results are barely more AI than flipping a coin.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah follow the cop seems a bit problematic. I like the alien change.

I guess it's probably

somewhere

in the realm of balanced with that? It's still swingy as shit, and it contains your favorite venge + vig combo. But that is pretty rare, especially since scum have a counter if the JK is alive.

[Something_Smart]

In general it's often not a

huge

problem, but it's worse in the normal queue because people want, you know, normal games.

That said, you do have a mod reputation, so you will probably attract mostly people who can handle the complexity. It's definitely still bad, but I wouldn't call it a deal breaker.

I think less swingy games are on average more fun though.

[Something_Smart]

Looks better for sure.

The main issue that comes to mind now is that if the miller claims miller they are likely to attract a gunsmith check which is Really Bad for town.

if you want them to be confirmable by the rolecop maybe backup vig or backup IC?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah.

I would probably drop the N2 from the JOAT in that case, both to give town a little more power and increase the chance of the rolecop check landing on the backup vig.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah.

[Something_Smart]

Everything Chaos said is correct, yes. Nothing else looks wrong; I'll give it another look just to double-check once you fix those things.

[Something_Smart]

/pass