Greeting's Mini Normal Review, February 2022

[Greeting]

This feels like one of those setups where even if it were in theory balanced, scum would not enjoy playing it at all. The main problem is that there are too many potential clears being generated from the town prs, and scum are going to be forced to kill clears rather than the people they want even in the worst-case scenarios for town. The cop is a clear, the FN is a clear, and it's quite likely that the cop will generate at least one clear over the course of the game. That's going to be an uphill battle for scum even if they manage to block one of town's prs every night.

What changes would you suggest? I am open to strengthening scum by giving them a one-shot Vigilante, but I am not sure if this is allowed in a Normal Themed Game. I could also remove the Jailkeeper (but I'd much rather leave both Cop and Tracker) and give town a weaker role instead.

[Greeting]

Rule thing; hydras are not allowed in Normals.

Rule advice: I would discourage telling the town that there's precisely four town PRs. Telling the town that there's three scum PRs is probably fine, but telling the town that there's four town PRs has the unfortunate side-effect where if there's precisely four PR claims, they're all conftown, and if there's five, it can force scum to 1v1 town.

When the town being 1v1'd are a friendly neighbor, a cop, a tracker, and a jailkeeper.

Noted, and noted. Hydras will not be allowed, and players will not receive any information as to the amount of power roles whatsoever.

[Greeting]

Prodding Ircher.

[Greeting]

I apologize for not getting back sooner. I think replacing the jailkeeper with a role at a similar power level to the mafia mailman and making the watcher 2-shot or odd night probably puts this into the realm of balanced while not being too frustrating for scum. mastina has final approval over the setup, but that's what I'm thinking after looking through past completed reviews.

Also, in normal games, there cannot be a limit on the number of characters in the message that the mailman sends.

No worries, I was just getting into the groove. Besides, you didn't even meet the 36-hour threshold for a prod.

Looking at the roles gave me an amazing idea. How would you feel about replacing the Jailkeeper with a Neighborizer? Except the Neighborizer will not learn the role of the person they targeted, but the neighborized player obviously would learn that the player who targeted them is a Neighborizer. They, of course, can claim in the PT, but I will not confirm nor deny any claims. So they would become semi-Masons. This makes me super curious as to what would happen if a Neighborizer targets a scum and would give the scum an extra opportunity to mislead a townie.

Do you think that the mafia would be strong enough to counter this with what they've got, in the very likely case that a Neighborizer targets a townie?

And all right, if the character cap is not allowed then I'll leave it as it is. I'm just concerned about a troll posting outrageously long bullshit posts to use this to throw the game.

[Greeting]

Scum killing roles are in fact not allowed in Normals.

Yeah, I figured as much.

[Greeting]

Also, another question. Can I give scum daytalk in a Normal?

And is rule 11 from General rules enforceable?

[Greeting]

Great, thanks a lot I'll ask implosion about rule 11 then.

@mastina, thoughts on 9?

[Greeting]

I'm not sure if I'm reading it correct so let me verify;
The setup you're proposing would be:

Town Cop, Town Tracker, Town Neighborizer, Town Friendly Neighbor

vs.

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Watcher, Mafia Mailman?

Correct.

[Greeting]

It's a little difficult to say for sure, but I would say "quite swingy, but loosely balanced".

The cop and tracker are incredibly strong (and the friendly neighbor is clearing), but the scum have a tool to identify TPRs and a tool to block them, with no possible interference with their nightkill, and decent ability to fakeclaim safely.

Double investigative with a conftown means that I'd probably give a

slight

edge to the town, ~55:45 imo (give or take 2.5%), which is within the acceptable balance margins even if it's slight townlean; if that's okay with you, then I would be okay with the setup.

I could limit the town Tracker from Night 2 in order to take a bit of power away from town to get it closer to 50:50.

[Greeting]

Or make the Tracker even Nights only.

[Greeting]

If Tracker's the role you want limited thanks to its potential lategame power, a potential solution instead of gating the uses to X-shot or nonconsecutive-nights would be making it a N1/N2/N3 Tracker. (Night-Specific is a whitelisted modifier and you're allowed to make the nights be more than one, so N1/N2/N3 Tracker would be a Tracker allowed to act on N1, N2, and N3.)

That's a great idea. Would you consent to me limiting the Town Tracker to N1/N2/N3 in order to balance out the game to completion? I will make a summary post which will entail all the changes we discussed.

As for the alt rules, I decided that I will

keep

the rule, but without overly involving the MafiaScum administration. Players will be advised to claim truthfully about being an alt or having alts with me having the option (but not obligation) to force-replace anyone who refuses to submit such information or lies about it.

[Greeting]

Mini Normal x setup

Game size

13 players

Town faction

10 town-aligned players

2 town-aligned players will have strong town PRs
2 town-aligned players will have soft town PRs
6 town-aligned players will be VTs

Strong town PRs: Town Cop, Town Tracker (N1/N2/N3)
Soft town PRs: Town Neighborizer, Town Friendly Neighbor

Mafia faction

3 mafia-aligned players

2 mafia-aligned players will have strong mafia PRs
1 mafia-aligned player will have a soft mafia PR

Strong mafia PRs: Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Watcher
Soft mafia PR: Mafia Mailman

Post #1:

Mini Normal x: Hits of 2012

Moderator:

Greeting

Set-up designed by:

Greeting

Back-up moderator:
Reviewed by:

Welcome to Mini Normal x! The theme of this game will be the biggest music hits of the year 2012.

Carly Rae Jepsen - Call Me Maybe

I swear, this song,

is

2012. Every radio station in my country played it in summer. Everyone was so shook at the end of the music video too!

Player list:

Player

Playerinne

Spoiler: Alive players

Player

Spoiler: Dead players

Playerinne

, a

Vanilla Townie

, voted out Day 1.

Spoiler: Modkilled players

This is a list you don't want to be on.

Events and vote counts:

Post #2:

Rules

General rules:

1. The MafiaScum.net rules apply in full in this game, as they do elsewhere on MafiaScum.net and are to be applied directly in any matters not covered by this ruleset. I reserve the right to enforce site-wide rules in this game should I find any players breaking them, and ask the listmods for help when necessary.

1a. Should any player find any rules in this game be in conflict with site-wide rules, please PM me and I shall refer to the listmods to resolve the issue.

2. The rules specific to this game and the MafiaScum.net rules also apply in other threads which are part of the game (included, but not limited to: the Dead/Spectator thread, the Mafia thread, Private Threads should there be any), unless it is stated in the relevant thread that they don’t.

3. Play to achieve your winning role condition.

4. Do not discuss the content of this game anywhere outside the relevant game threads (included, but not limited to: this thread, the Dead/Spectator thread, the Mafia thread, or Private Threads should there be any).

5. Do not speak privately about the game anywhere except for places where it is explicitly allowed.

6. Do not directly quote any PMs sent to you regarding the game, unless it is explicitly allowed to do so.

7. Do not directly quote from any other game-related thread into this thread (examples: quoting from the Mafia thread into this thread or a Private Thread a player has into this thread).

7a. It is, however, allowed to quote directly from other games into this thread under the condition that the relevant game ended.

8. If you are dead in the game, you are no longer allowed to post in this thread. You will be provided with access to a Dead/Spectator thread, where you can comment on the game freely.

8a. If you want to make a “bah!” post, you must pre-send it to me for verification. You may post it only if you receive explicit consent from me to do so. If you want to maximize your chances of getting a “bah!” post accepted, ask yourself whether any game-relevant content could be drawn from it before submitting it for verification.

If you do not receive consent, you are not allowed to post it and doing so will be a serious violation of the rules. Please note that a “bah!” post is a privilege and not a right and should not be abused.

9. Please remember, at all times, that this is a game that is supposed provide an enjoyable experience for all. Mafia can get heated. Players will argue. This is all part of the mafia experience. However, you should be considerate of the feelings of others while posting and refrain from any actions that could turn this game into a hostile environment for anyone.

9a. Racism, homophobia, misogyny or any other form of discriminatory action is not allowed under any circumstances. Jokes and dark humor can be offensive, so if you are worried that a joke can cause offense, refrain from making it.

9b. Do your best to not misgender anyone. Use pronouns that are preferred by the player.

9c. Do not criticize a player’s character or characteristics. Criticize their behavior and, most preferably, in-game behavior instead.

Using meta on other players is allowed.

10. If, as a player, you believe that a rule was broken and I missed it, please PM me before commenting about it in the thread. I will get back to you and take action if necessary.

11. If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Game-specific information:

1. This game consists of 10 players aligned with the town faction and 3 players aligned with the mafia faction.

2. Day One lasts 10 days (216 hours).

3. Every next Day Phase lasts 7 days (168 hours), except for the phase in which the town faction should find themselves in ELo (“eliminate or lose”) should that happen in the course of this game – that Day Phase will last 5 days (120 hours).

4. Night Phase lasts 2 days (48 hours).

5. Day Phase ends early if 50% of players + 1 player come to a decision to vote out a single player. The game then enters twilight phase, which lasts until I announce the results of the Day Phase. Posting during the twilight phase is allowed, but no votes may be changed or cast. No votes changed or cast during twilight phase shall be counted as valid.

6. In case the Day Phase ends and there is no majority of votes on any single player, no player is voted out and Night Phase begins.

Voting and activity:

1. The proper voting format is VOTE: Greeting (use of the vote tag). You may also use bold tags, however, in that case, the format must be

Vote: Greeting

. Votes cannot be put in spoilers and should a player do so, the vote will not be counted as valid.

1a. I reserve the final right to determine whether a vote is valid or not and will use my best judgement in doing so.

2. Discussing replacements is allowed unless it is explicitly stated by me that it’s not.

3. Players must not make their posts unreadable. That includes, but is not limited to:

- excessive use of bright colors;

- using a very small font size;

- writing in a way that makes the text not readable for the naked eye (for example by using a black font that matches the site background).

4. I will use the color

#0080FF

in communication with others. I kindly ask you to refrain from using it and pick another color to avoid confusion.

5. Players must post at least once every 36 hours. Prods will be sent out when a player hasn’t posted with game-advancing content for at least 36 hours.

5a. Once a player receives a prod, they have 24 hours to respond. If they do not respond by posting game-advancing content, they will be replaced. If the player returns before I find a replacement, they may rejoin the game.

5b. Should a player receive a second prod, I will request explanation for the inactivity by PM, failure to provide a satisfactory explanation will result in replacement. If satisfactory explanation is provided, the player will be allowed to remain in the game, provided they resume posting game-advancing content.

5c. Third prods are unacceptable under any circumstances. A player who is to be prodded for the third time will be force-replaced from the game and not allowed to return.

5d. Should a player be due to receive a prod during Night Phase (example: they haven’t posted for 36 hours and then players decide to hammer), they are required to post within the first 12 hours of the next Day Phase. Should they fail to do so, they will be prodded.

6. V/LA is allowed for up to 5 days (120 hours). If you plan on going on V/LA for longer than 120 hours, please PM me requesting replacement. Things happen in real-life and I will understand that.

Private Threads:

1. Regardless of role or alignment, you may request a Private Thread where you can make notes for the game at any time and I will provide you with such. You may not have more than one Private Thread. Having access to a Mafia thread or any other game-related thread you share with other players does not count as having a Private Thread for the purpose of this rule.

2. As a repeat from 7. of “Game-specific rules and information”, you are not allowed to copy from the Private Thread into the game thread.

3. The reverse of 2. above is allowed. You may quote content from this thread into a Private Thread.

4. After the game is over, you will have 48 hours to request redactions or ask for your Private Thread not to be released. Failure to act will result in your Private Thread being released with no redactions.

5. The Mafia thread and the Dead thread, as a rule, will be released upon endgame without redactions. You may request redactions in private before endgame, however you must provide reasonable explanation for your request and the request may be denied.

6. Discussing the existence or non-existence of potential Private Threads is allowed.

Miscellaneous:

1. Players are allowed to claim mafia individually when town-aligned if they feel like it will aid their team in achieving your role condition. Players are not allowed to claim mafia with other players.

2. If a player has a PR, town or mafia, the choice whether to use their role or nor is entirely up to them. No prods regarding role usage will be sent out during Night Phase (or Day Phase, should the game setup involve any roles used during Day Phase).

3. Do not pretend to break the rules. Pretending to break the rules is against the rules.

4. Rules may change during the game, but only in exceptional circumstances. Should that happen, the players will receive an obligatory notification about this occurrence both via PM and by a mod announcement in the game thread.

5. Per Mini Normal Game rules, hydras are not allowed.

6. The mafia have day talk.

Town Role PMs

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.

You win when there is no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Town Cop

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. Assuming no interference, you will be told whether they are aligned with the

town

or with the

mafia

.

You win when there is no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Town Tracker

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.
In addition, only on Night Phases 1, 2 and 3 you may target a player of your choice. Assuming no interference, you will be told whom that player targeted that night.

You win when there is no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Town Neighborizer

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.
In addition, on one chosen Night Phase you may target a player. Assuming no interference, that player will be informed of your role and you will receive access to a Private Thread with them where both of you can talk for as long as you are alive in the game. This action does not influence the role or alignment of the player you target and you will not learn of either. Should there be interference with your role, you may re-use it on another chosen Night Phase until you succeed.

You win when there is no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Town Friendly Neighbor

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. Assuming no interference, that player will receive the following message "

Player

is aligned with the town".

You win when there is no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Mafia Role PMs

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

Every Day Phase you may mislead town into eliminating a fellow townie.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. If that player has a power role and used it that night, they will be roleblocked. You will not receive any feedback as to whether you were successful or not.

You win when the mafia-aligned players constitute a majority of all players in the game or there is an equal amount of mafia-aligned players and town-aligned players or there is nothing to stop it from happening.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Mafia Watcher

.

Every Day Phase you may mislead town into eliminating a fellow townie.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. Assuming no interference, you will learn whom, if anyone, targeted that player that night.

You win when the mafia-aligned players constitute a majority of all players in the game or there is an equal amount of mafia-aligned players and town-aligned players or there is nothing to stop it from happening.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Mafia Mailman

.

Every Day Phase you may mislead town into eliminating a fellow townie.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. You may send them a message. The player will be informed that the message came from a Mailman but not of the Mailman's alignment. The player will also be allowed to quote the contents of the message directly into the game thread. Please note that all game-specific and MafiaScum.net rules apply to the content of the message. If you fail to submit a message that does not conflict with either the game-specific or MafiaScum.net rules, it will be rejected and you will be deemed to not have used your role.

You win when the mafia-aligned players constitute a majority of all players in the game or there is an equal amount of mafia-aligned players and town-aligned players or there is nothing to stop it from happening.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

[Greeting]

Rule 6 under Miscellaneous (about day talk) should go under game-specific information. Also, your ruleset is very long. You may want to consider having a summary of the essential points somewhere as people don't tend to read long rulesets. Most experienced players skim or skip everything that isn't a setup-specific rule. Another option would be bolding your more unusual or important rules.

You are right, 6. from Miscellaneous should go there.

As for the ruleset being too long, I say

ignorantia juris non excusat

. I can agree that they're longer than most rulesets I've seen, but I don't see any room for slimming them down. I could try to rephrase what has already been said in a shorter way and bold the most important rules.

I can change the order and put "Game-specific information" above "General rules" too.

This is minor, but in the town's win condition, it should read "You win when there

are

no more mafia..."

Noted.

For the tracker pm, the role name should read as "Town N1 N2 N3 Tracker". The role should flip as such as well. I would delete "only" from the sentence that mentions the night phases in the tracker pm.

Noted.

I think you are a bit confused about how a neighborizer works. I'm a bit short on time rn, so I'll clarify later. Alternatively, you can look at the wiki page for neighborizer.

I'll wait for you to clarify what you mean.

Technically speaking, mafia have to have a member alive to win in normals. (Your current win condition doesn't reflect this.) This is less of a concern though in a mini where the only time that may not be the case is with a vig, but it's good to not inadvertently give away info about the setup.

It is mechanically impossible for there to be no players left in the game, but if you think that's important to not give that out then I'll make sure to include this.

In the mailman role pm: "The player will also be allowed to quote the contents of the message directly into the game thread." --> Please delete this. This is too risky for game integrity purposes. You can probably allow copy-paste but not quoting.

Noted.

[Greeting]

Town Cop Night x result:

Player

is aligned with the

town

.

Player

is aligned with the

mafia

.

(Roleblocked)

The request yielded no result.

Town Tracker Night x result:

Player

targeted

Playerinne

.

Player

targeted no one.

(Roleblocked)

The request yielded no result.

Mafia Watcher Night x result:

Player

was targeted by

Playerinne

.

Player

was targeted by no one.

(Roleblocked - it is technically possible to happen)

The request yielded no result.

[Greeting]

Okay, a neighborizer in a normal game has the following characteristics:

1) They start with no others in their neighborhood.
2) They can add a player to their neighborhood each night. Players added after the first are added to the same neighborhood not a different one.
3) The neighborizer action doesn't fail if the player is killed.

Your description is quite a bit different. If you want a neighborizer to only recruit one player, you would have to make it one shot. Unfortunately, there is not a way in normal games to refund shots if their action fails. If you want the target player to specifically know who neighborized them, that's not exactly normal either, but you can come pretty close by making the neighborizer loud. (They would receive a separate message that X targeted them last night in addition to the standard "You have been invited to a neighborhood" message. If you go that route, make sure the two messages are sent separately and not as a combined message.)

I understand. Would a one-shot Neighborizer

without

refunds be okay then?

And it kinda makes no sense to not let know the neighborized know who targeted them. I mean, they will get a PT link and by clicking on it, they will know who's in there. If there's just two players in the Neighbourhood, then it's kinda obvious to both parties whom is the Neighborizer and whom is the neighborized.

[Greeting]

Note to myself:

Correct 2. from section "Private Threads" - change "Game-specific rules and information" to "General rules".

[Greeting]

Okay, a neighborizer in a normal game has the following characteristics:

1) They start with no others in their neighborhood.
2) They can add a player to their neighborhood each night. Players added after the first are added to the same neighborhood not a different one.
3) The neighborizer action doesn't fail if the player is killed.

Your description is quite a bit different. If you want a neighborizer to only recruit one player, you would have to make it one shot. Unfortunately, there is not a way in normal games to refund shots if their action fails. If you want the target player to specifically know who neighborized them, that's not exactly normal either, but you can come pretty close by making the neighborizer loud. (They would receive a separate message that X targeted them last night in addition to the standard "You have been invited to a neighborhood" message. If you go that route, make sure the two messages are sent separately and not as a combined message.)

I understand. Would a one-shot Neighborizer

without

refunds be okay then?

And it kinda makes no sense to not let know the neighborized know who targeted them. I mean, they will get a PT link and by clicking on it, they will know who's in there. If there's just two players in the Neighbourhood, then it's kinda obvious to both parties whom is the Neighborizer and whom is the neighborized.

@mastina?

[Greeting]

Mini Normal x setup

Game size

13 players

Town faction

10 town-aligned players

2 town-aligned players will have strong town PRs
2 town-aligned players will have soft town PRs
6 town-aligned players will be VTs

Strong town PRs: Town Cop, Town N1/N2/N3 Tracker
Soft town PRs: Town Neighborizer (one-shot), Town Friendly Neighbor

Mafia faction

3 mafia-aligned players

2 mafia-aligned players will have strong mafia PRs
1 mafia-aligned player will have a soft mafia PR

Strong mafia PRs: Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Watcher
Soft mafia PR: Mafia Mailman

Post #1:

Mini Normal x: Hits of 2012

Moderator:

Greeting

Set-up designed by:

Greeting

Back-up moderator:
Reviewed by:

Welcome to Mini Normal x! The theme of this game will be the biggest music hits of the year 2012.

Carly Rae Jepsen - Call Me Maybe

I swear, this song,

is

2012. Every radio station in my country played it in summer. Everyone was so shook at the end of the music video too!

Player list:

Player

Playerinne

Spoiler: Alive players

Player

Spoiler: Dead players

Playerinne

, a

Vanilla Townie

, voted out Day 1.

Spoiler: Modkilled players

This is a list you don't want to be on.

Events and vote counts:

Post #2:

Rules

Game-specific information:

1. This game consists of 10 players aligned with the town faction and 3 players aligned with the mafia faction.

2. Day One lasts 10 days (216 hours). Every next Day Phase lasts 7 days (168 hours), except for the phase in which the town faction should find themselves in ELo (“eliminate or lose”) should that happen in the course of this game – that Day Phase will last 5 days (120 hours).

3. Night Phase lasts 2 days (48 hours).

4. Day Phase ends early if 50% of players + 1 player come to a decision to vote out a single player. The game then enters twilight phase, which lasts until I announce the results of the Day Phase. Posting during the twilight phase is allowed, but no votes may be changed or cast. No votes changed or cast during twilight phase shall be counted as valid.

5. In case the Day Phase ends and there is no majority of votes on any single player, no player is voted out and Night Phase begins.

6. The mafia have day talk.

General rules:

1. The MafiaScum.net rules apply in full in this game, as they do elsewhere on MafiaScum.net and are to be applied directly in any matters not covered by this ruleset. I reserve the right to enforce site-wide rules in this game should I find any players breaking them, and ask the listmods for help when necessary. Should any player find any rules in this game be in conflict with site-wide rules, please PM me and I shall refer to the listmods to resolve the issue.

2. The rules specific to this game and the MafiaScum.net rules also apply in other threads which are part of the game (included, but not limited to: the Dead/Spectator thread, the Mafia thread, Private Threads should there be any), unless it is stated in the relevant thread that they don’t.

3. Play to achieve your winning role condition.

4. Do not discuss the content of this game anywhere outside the relevant game threads (included, but not limited to: this thread, the Dead/Spectator thread, the Mafia thread, or Private Threads should there be any).

5. Do not speak privately about the game anywhere except for places where it is explicitly allowed.

6. Do not directly quote any PMs sent to you regarding the game, unless it is explicitly allowed to do so.

7. Do not directly quote from any other game-related thread into this thread (examples: quoting from the Mafia thread into this thread or a Private Thread a player has into this thread). It is, however, allowed to quote directly from other games into this thread under the condition that the relevant game ended.

8. If you are dead in the game, you are no longer allowed to post in this thread. You will be provided with access to a Dead/Spectator thread, where you can comment on the game freely.

8a. If you want to make a “bah!” post, you must pre-send it to me for verification. You may post it only if you receive explicit consent from me to do so. If you want to maximize your chances of getting a “bah!” post accepted, ask yourself whether any game-relevant content could be drawn from it before submitting it for verification.

If you do not receive consent, you are not allowed to post it and doing so will be a serious violation of the rules. Please note that a “bah!” post is a privilege and not a right and should not be abused.

9. Please remember, at all times, that this is a game that is supposed provide an enjoyable experience for all. Mafia can get heated. Players will argue. This is all part of the mafia experience. However, you should be considerate of the feelings of others while posting and refrain from any actions that could turn this game into a hostile environment for anyone.

9a. Racism, homophobia, misogyny or any other form of discriminatory action is not allowed under any circumstances. Jokes and dark humor can be offensive, so if you are worried that a joke can cause offense, refrain from making it.

9b. Do your best to not misgender anyone. Use pronouns that are preferred by the player.

9c. Do not criticize a player’s character or characteristics. Criticize their behavior and, most preferably, in-game behavior instead.

Using meta on other players is allowed.

10. If, as a player, you believe that a rule was broken and I missed it, please PM me before commenting about it in the thread. I will get back to you and take action if necessary.

11. If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Voting and activity:

1. The proper voting format is VOTE: Greeting (use of the vote tag). You may also use bold tags, however, in that case, the format must be

Vote: Greeting

. Votes cannot be put in spoilers and should a player do so, the vote will not be counted as valid.

1a. I reserve the final right to determine whether a vote is valid or not and will use my best judgement in doing so.

2. Discussing replacements is allowed unless it is explicitly stated by me that it’s not.

3. Players must not make their posts unreadable. That includes, but is not limited to:

- excessive use of bright colors;

- using a very small font size;

- writing in a way that makes the text not readable for the naked eye (for example by using a black font that matches the site background).

4. I will use the color

#0080FF

in communication with others. I kindly ask you to refrain from using it and pick another color to avoid confusion.

5. Players must post at least once every 36 hours. Prods will be sent out when a player hasn’t posted with game-advancing content for at least 36 hours.

5a. Once a player receives a prod, they have 24 hours to respond. If they do not respond by posting game-advancing content, they will be replaced. If the player returns before I find a replacement, they may rejoin the game.

5b. Should a player receive a second prod, I will request explanation for the inactivity by PM, failure to provide a satisfactory explanation will result in replacement. If satisfactory explanation is provided, the player will be allowed to remain in the game, provided they resume posting game-advancing content.

5c. Third prods are unacceptable under any circumstances. A player who is to be prodded for the third time will be force-replaced from the game and not allowed to return

.

5d. Should a player be due to receive a prod during Night Phase (example: they haven’t posted for 36 hours and then players decide to hammer), they are required to post within the first 12 hours of the next Day Phase. Should they fail to do so, they will be prodded.

6. V/LA is allowed for up to 5 days (120 hours). If you plan on going on V/LA for longer than 120 hours, please PM me requesting replacement. Things happen in real-life and I will understand that.

Private Threads:

1. You may request a Private Thread where you can make notes for the game at any time and I will provide you with such. You may not have more than one Private Thread. Having access to a Mafia thread or any other game-related thread you share with other players does not count as having a Private Thread for the purpose of this rule.

2. As a repeat from 7. of “General rules”, you are not allowed to copy from the Private Thread into the game thread.

3. The reverse of 2. above is allowed. You may quote content from this thread into a Private Thread.

4. After the game is over, you will have 48 hours to request redactions or ask for your Private Thread not to be released. Failure to act will result in your Private Thread being released with no redactions.

5. The Mafia thread and the Dead thread, as a rule, will be released upon endgame without redactions. You may request redactions in private before endgame, however you must provide reasonable explanation for your request and the request may be denied.

6. Discussing the existence or non-existence of potential Private Threads is allowed.

Miscellaneous:

1. Players are allowed to claim mafia individually when town-aligned if they feel like it will aid their team in achieving your role condition. Players are not allowed to claim mafia with other players.

2. If a player has a PR, town or mafia, the choice whether to use their role or nor is entirely up to them. No prods regarding role usage will be sent out during Night Phase (or Day Phase, should the game setup involve any roles used during Day Phase).

3. Do not pretend to break the rules. Pretending to break the rules is against the rules.

4. Rules may change during the game, but only in exceptional circumstances. Should that happen, the players will receive an obligatory notification about this occurrence both via PM and by a mod announcement in the game thread.

5. Per Mini Normal Game rules, hydras are not allowed

.

Town Role PMs

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.

You win when there are no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Town Cop

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. Assuming no interference, you will be told whether they are aligned with the

town

or with the

mafia

.

You win when there are no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Town N1/N2/N3 Tracker

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.
In addition, on Night Phases 1, 2 and 3 you may target a player of your choice. Assuming no interference, you will be told whom that player targeted that night.

You win when there are no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Town Neighborizer (one-shot)

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.
In addition, on one chosen Night Phase you may target a player. Assuming no interference, you and the player you targeted will receive access to a Private Thread where both of you can talk for as long as you are alive in the game. This action does not influence the role or alignment of the player. Should there be interference with your role, you may not re-use it.

You win when there are no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Town Friendly Neighbor

.

Every Day Phase you may cast a vote to eliminate a player whom you think is aligned with the mafia.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. Assuming no interference, that player will receive the following message "

Player

is aligned with the town".

You win when there are no more mafia-aligned players alive and there is at least one town-aligned player in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Mafia Role PMs

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

Every Day Phase you may mislead town into eliminating a fellow townie.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. If that player has a power role and used it that night, they will be roleblocked. You will not receive any feedback as to whether you were successful or not.

You win when the mafia-aligned players constitute a majority of all players in the game or there is an equal amount of mafia-aligned players and town-aligned players or there is nothing to stop it from happening. In order for you to win, at least one mafia-aligned player must remain alive in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Mafia Watcher

.

Every Day Phase you may mislead town into eliminating a fellow townie.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. Assuming no interference, you will learn whom, if anyone, targeted that player that night.

You win when the mafia-aligned players constitute a majority of all players in the game or there is an equal amount of mafia-aligned players and town-aligned players or there is nothing to stop it from happening. In order for you to win, at least one mafia-aligned player must remain alive in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Welcome to Mini Normal x!

You are a

Mafia Mailman

.

Every Day Phase you may mislead town into eliminating a fellow townie.
In addition, every Night Phase you may target a player of your choice. You may send them a message. The player will be informed that the message came from a Mailman but not of the Mailman's alignment. Please note that all game-specific and MafiaScum.net rules apply to the content of the message. If you fail to submit a message that does not conflict with either the game-specific or MafiaScum.net rules, it will be rejected and you will be deemed to not have used your role.

You win when the mafia-aligned players constitute a majority of all players in the game or there is an equal amount of mafia-aligned players and town-aligned players or there is nothing to stop it from happening. In order for you to win, at least one mafia-aligned player must remain alive in the game.

Please respond and confirm your role and alignment and also that you acknowledge the game's rules with regard to alt accounts.

Excerpt from the rules:

If you are playing on an alt account, you must reveal your main account and any other interconnected accounts upon another player’s request. If you refuse to answer twice or provide an untruthful answer, I may privately ask you to clarify. Failure to cooperate with me may result, at my discretion, in force replacement.

Possible Night Action Results for investigative roles

Town Cop Night x result:

Player

is aligned with the

town

.

Player

is aligned with the

mafia

.

(Roleblocked)

The request yielded no result.

Town N1/N2/N3 Tracker Night x result:

Player

targeted

Playerinne

.

Player

targeted no one.

(Roleblocked)

The request yielded no result.

Mafia Watcher Night x result:

Player

was targeted by

Playerinne

.

Player

was targeted by no one.

(Roleblocked - it is technically possible to happen)

The request yielded no result.

[Greeting]

Summary of changes:

- updated role names of Tracker and Neighborizer;
- updated the Mafia Mailman role;
- updated the Town Tracker role (by removing "only" per Ircher's suggestion);
- updated the Town Neighborizer (one-shot) role;
- updated mafia winning condition;
- made a few changes to the rules (not the content, but deleted a few points and merged them with others), bolded the most important ones;
- changed the order - "Game-specific information" went above "General rules";
- changed 2. of "Private Threads" accordingly to 30.

[Greeting]

Possible Night Action related PMs from the remaining PRs

Town Neighborizer (one-shot):

(for the Neighborizer)

Player

has been recruited into your Neighborhood, located here: (link)

(for the neighborized)

You have been recruited into a Neighborhood, located here: (link)

(if Roleblocked)

Your action failed.

Town Friendly Neighbor:

(for the Friendly Neighbor target)

You have received the following message:

Player

is aligned with the

town

.

(if Roleblocked, nothing happens)

Mafia Mailman:

You have been visited by a mysterious Mailman, who sent you the following message:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.

(if Roleblocked, nothing happens)

[Greeting]

Awesome!

[Greeting]

The neighborizer should not be directly informed if their action fails (though they can certainly infer as much), but everything else looks fine to me.

Why?

I will remove it, but I’d like you to elaborate on why that is.

[Greeting]

It's the way things are on this site. Roles generally aren't informed their action failed unless they specifically get a result of some sort. Like for the neighborizer, sure, they'll know something is up when the person they targeted isn't in the neighborhood, but it's up to them to make that deduction. You risk accidentally giving away information you shouldn't. (To be clear here, I'm not saying this is usually the case or necessarily the case here, but it can happen.)

Also, for normal games, it is important that things like action resolution is standardized. This ensures a consistent set of expectations from players. As already mentioned, the current standard is that neighborizers don't get notified if their action fails. Deviating from the established standards can influence the way players perceive the setup and the deductions they make about it.

Alright, thanks. Although I privately would rather give out that information as I don't think there's much harm done and, as a player, would appreciate the clarity, I can accept that this is a Normal and should bend more towards what is generally expected. Hopefully, I'll be allowed more freedom in the Mini Theme queue in the future.

Town Neighborizer (one-shot) will not receive any information upon being Roleblocked.

@mastina waiting for your

[Greeting]

Flips

Day x result

Player

was eliminated!

Player

was a

Vanilla Townie

.

It is now Night x. It will last until (timer).

Night x result

Player

was killed!

Player

was a

Town N1/N2/N3 Tracker

.

It is now Day x. It will last until (timer).

[Greeting]

Thank you, both mastina and Ircher for your help!

[Greeting]

Just letting you know that 2. in "Voting and activity" will be amended to make sure it does not come in conflict with the site rules.

Here is how it looks like now:

Discussing replacements is allowed unless it is explicitly stated by me that it’s not.

Here is the new version:

Discussing replacements is allowed only after they happen. It is not allowed to discuss any possible future replacements, to threaten to replace or ask another player to replace out.

[Greeting]

Upon deeper consideration, I will remove the rules on "bah!" posts. Given that this is my prerogative as mod, I have decided against allowing these after all.

That means that 8a. from "General rules" will be removed.

[Greeting]

They

are

visibly different in the game. The Mailman's role clearly states that they must be different.

I do not want to confirm this, because by doing that I will inadvertently confirm that there is a Mailman in the game, which I don't think I should be doing as a game mod.

[Greeting]

Saying this here and via PM:

I disagree with this interpretation completely and stand by what I said, but I will follow your instruction. I think that the conclusion the players will get is that I am confirming that there is a Mailman in the game.

I will respond to angela confirming that the message she got was from a Friendly Neighbor.

I will respond to Andresvmb saying that if there is a Mailman in the game and sent a message, the player receiving the message will know that it came from a Mailman.

[Greeting]

Oh and also, I will add 36 hours to the Day 2 timer in case the players feel like they’ve wasted their time arguing about this. This will happen in about 8 hours as I am at work right now and posting this on my phone.

[Greeting]

This is the PM that was sent out as a result of a FN action. The title was „Looks like you got a Message!”.

You have received the following message:

Message

(redacted)

is aligned with the

town

.

Here is the role description from the wiki page, which I followed while designing the setup and making the roles.

A Friendly Neighbor can target a player at Night to tell them that they are Town. The target will receive a message saying that the Friendly Neighbor is Town. This role does nothing else - the Friendly Neighbor does not know the alignment of the person who got the message.

I believe that the message sent out meets the wiki description quite literally. So if a player wants to know what a Friendly Neighbor does in a Normal Game they can open up the wiki page and check.

Which means that there is no deviation or ambiguity from what is expected in a Normal Game.

The Mailman, on the other hand, may be anonymous or not. I opted for a middle option which discloses the fact that the message is from a Mailman - this is stated in the role description.

The players are able to piece this information on their own if they choose to do so. The Mailman can literally just safely claim that he’s a Town Mailman and the ability would look exactly the same. As a matter of fact, the player who rolled Friendly Neighbor already caught on to this and pointed it out. Which is basically proof that mod intervention to solve this is unnecessary.

And I think that there is a lot of danger with these theoretical questions that on surface don’t reveal the setup, but the answered provides an outlook into technicalities which were left vague deliberately. The Friendly Neighbor is very obviously a counterweight to the Mafia Mailman. The message from the Friendly Neighbor has been created in such a way to give out less information in order to combat the fact that many players might think that it would be unlikely for both of these roles to appear in the same game as the same alignment.

[Greeting]

Maybe I wasn’t 100% clear about what I meant and didn’t finish my train of thought here.

The setup has been designed in a way to both meet Normal Game standards and provide careful bits of information to everyone in order to make it balanced. So the similarities and differences between the FN and Mailman roles are intentional and a part of the game’s balanced mechanic. I feel that if, as a mod I start to disclose the way these roles work to players who do not have them, I am starting to give out information that may influence the balance of the game.

Also, I am not prepared to answer questions like „what if there is a Town Neapolitan in the game and does x”? The question is theoretical, but the answer may give out unnecessary information about the balance of the game and may lead the player to conclude that there isn’t, in fact, a Town Neapolitan in this game. And I think that if I start tampering with this then I’m interfering with the game.

Which is why my opinion stands, but you’re the listmod here and I am not going to argue with that.

It’s just I need my laptop to do all this and can’t do this at work because my activity on my work computer is monitored.

[Greeting]

And also, if the person who rolled Friendly Neighbor chose to ask how the role works, I would have absolutely no problem in explaining it to them. And it’s their decision how to use this information, disclose it or not. But I received questions from players who did not get those roles.

[Greeting]

Fyi it's done.

[Greeting]

They

are

visibly different in the game. The Mailman's role clearly states that they must be different.

I do not want to confirm this, because by doing that I will inadvertently confirm that there is a Mailman in the game, which I don't think I should be doing as a game mod.

That's the thing though.

A friendly neighbor, by design, NEEDS to be mod confirmed. It needs to be mod confirmed that it is NOT a mailman, that it IS a friendly neighbor.

Confirming that a friendly neighbor is a friendly neighbor and not a mailman does not imply one way or another the existence of a mailman. A mailman could exist, a mailman could not exist, it literally doesn't matter. The important thing is that a Friendly Neighbor result should never need to ask "hey is this from a mailman?" because they should know that, no, it is not, that yes, it is a mod confirmation that the player in question is town.

It doesn't say so in the wiki nor does it say so in the Normal Game guidelines. I literally made a role and used it in accordance with the description provided on the wiki.

Which is why I think this was interference in the game.

[Greeting]

We can drop this though. I did what you guys wanted and to be fair, being a good game mod is more important to me than forcing everyone to accept my views.

[Greeting]

In my next game I think I will remove the alt rule and also the replacement rule. There will be no requirement for explanation past prod 2, I will just replace out players on the third strike automatically.

These rules have been unpopular and probably only caused unnecessary trouble for me.

But this game will continue as it is, rules will not change unless it is absolutely necessary.