Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: midwaybear

im taking applications for personal vote monkeys.
if you want to be my vote monkey and sheep my votes all game please send me your resume and a cover letter.

[Cheetory6]

yes its a really good vote.
its probably my favourite vote that ive made so far.

[Cheetory6]

Sources say that midway is very scummy.

I haven't read anything yet.

hell yeah I've always wanted a nickname like "sources"

[Cheetory6]

The fact this game is a pun about peaches is awful and anyone who laughed I'm going to vote. Step right up handing em out

Found one if that helps.
(:

[Cheetory6]

cakez vote is fine.
he's just bitter that I won that game (:

VOTE: jake the wolf

[Cheetory6]

midway and s_s are both in my pile of townleans that will be completely useless by page 7.

BUT AT WHAT COST CHEET

i'll take the price of one nerd's life in exchange for fortnight glory 10 out of 10 times tbh.

[Cheetory6]

god forum posting is fucking weird I can't figure out how to phrase things anymore.

[Cheetory6]

i looked at your first few posts and thought "i want to vote for this guy"
and then i looked at your first few posts again and thought "i do not want to vote for this guy".

[Cheetory6]

a wise man once said
meta is trash

[Cheetory6]

Meta isn't trash.

Lots of meta arguments are trash, but that's not the same thing.

the amount of effort one would need to dedicate to meta in order for it to be really effective is beyond what it's probably worth,
it's very easy for people to get wrong,
and most people aren't going to be able to/be willing to follow an argument you make for someone being a specific alignment based on it.

and I say all of this as someone who has been too reliant on meta in the past.
(plus if I say meta is trash enough I can hopefully convince myself not to read any games besides this one which would also be awesome.)

===========================================

jake's response to pressure is just kind of a mass of unreadable noise and not really getting anything of value from it.

so
VOTE: gamma

big fancy non-content opening which was likely prepared prior to getting his alignment (thanks for the shoutout though (: ) and some kind of weak posts since it.
sure.

p-edit: oh hey cool nice

[Cheetory6]

acceptable wagons include:
noraa
and
the one that im trying to make

hopefully that helps everyone decide on their voting.

[Cheetory6]

I think the nice big preprepped post is a common one for scum to ease their way into the game.
Or at least I've done it more than once as mafia and assume others have had the inclination as well.

[Cheetory6]

I think if gamma was dropping that and content then it would be less pingy, idk.
It makes sense in my head!!!!!

[Cheetory6]

Like I'm being imprecise but the meaning should be clear and I think you're being pedantic!
God!

[Cheetory6]

pedantic is like
"oh man technically you're wrong because of this small thing that doesn't matter"

but yeah I'm a little scrazzled right now.
mafia does my brain weird.
I need to go to bed and I'm scared I'm going to total my weekend on this game by overthinking it.
):

[Cheetory6]

okay like the details of
"did they prep it before the game started" or "did they do it as an attempt to NAI crutch into the game" don't matter if the point is that the post is a crutch regardless of the circumstances that led to it and I feel like you should know that and are trying to make something out of nothing. >:c

[Cheetory6]

yeah that's fair

[Cheetory6]

Totally not a jealous normie who's feeling lonely.

Cries in Corner

Sir this is a wendys.

[Cheetory6]

I think the nice big preprepped post is a common one for scum to ease their way into the game.
Or at least I've done it more than once as mafia and assume others have had the inclination as well.

Not true.
Don't use your own experience as a statistic.
Show evidence.

are you thinking statistics or like a simulation?
because I could maybe try to get something programmed up by like the end of March if that timeline works for you?

also not really sure why you're dedicating a post to this when I'm voting someone you're saying feels like mafia.

[Cheetory6]

that's a NAI thing from him?

[Cheetory6]

the amount of effort one would need to dedicate to meta in order for it to be really effective is beyond what it's probably worth,
it's very easy for people to get wrong,
and most people aren't going to be able to/be willing to follow an argument you make for someone being a specific alignment based on it.

and I say all of this as someone who has been too reliant on meta in the past.
(plus if I say meta is trash enough I can hopefully convince myself not to read any games besides this one which would also be awesome.)

If you had to name a player in this game whose meta you are most familiar with, who would it be and what impression do you have of them?

I'm most experienced with gamma/maria/jingle but will be doing my best to read them within the context of this game, partially for the sake of my own sanity, and also in honour of the tidbit at the bottom of post 1 page 1.

I think my gamma thoughts are pretty apparent.
Maria is null.
Jingle feels particularly difficult to read atm.

[Cheetory6]

lhf is low hanging fruit or someone who is easy to be pushed, with the implication that mafia will try to take advantage of it.

[Cheetory6]

I believe the implication is that this page would have been coached.

[Cheetory6]

@zaiden, here is the relevant post again:

the amount of effort one would need to dedicate to meta in order for it to be really effective is beyond what it's probably worth,
it's very easy for people to get wrong,
and most people aren't going to be able to/be willing to follow an argument you make for someone being a specific alignment based on it.

and I say all of this as someone who has been too reliant on meta in the past.
(plus if I say meta is trash enough I can hopefully convince myself not to read any games besides this one which would also be awesome.)

Cheet is well inside his scum range atm

Cheetory: "meta is bad"
*proceeds to metaread Cheetory*

I love this game

haha nice

[Cheetory6]

If you don't, look closer.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Ah well, carry on then.

[Cheetory6]

Also, everybody knows Cheetory doesn't really exist and is just a puppet for the great and mighty Gork.

we should all be grateful that he hasn't modded a game, as it would assuredly be a nightmare.

p-edit: oh nice I'm not the only bitter old-vibey person in the game anymore sick!

[Cheetory6]

*dumps a bag of sugar on cheetory*
feel sweet not bitter!

technically sugar has rotting qualities.

=======================================================
=this section serves as a transition from my non-serious posting to my serious posting.=
=======================================================

my pool rn is jingle, gamma and spring.
and will probably vote the latterer if I get bored of my gamma vote and she hasn't done anything.

[Cheetory6]

his gyp vote is pretty bad

[Cheetory6]

it FEELS bad I guess maybe is more accurate?
hm.
articulating is hard.

gyp being pedantic is pretty null and it feels like jingle's potentially using that as a means to overjustify a vote.

[Cheetory6]

pedantic: The quality of focusing on an insignificant detail to criticize the whole of an argument.

oh I mean I guess you could have just been the third person to define pedantic for gyp but I took it as justification for your vote

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: spring
oh well I'll take the bad timing look.
422 is a very uncomfortable post.

zaiden feels like they'll be easier to read the longer the game goes on.

p-edit: no.

[Cheetory6]

I'm not gonna not vote someone if I think their posting is scummy-looking just because it comes right after a vote on me. Lol.

[Cheetory6]

also just like a weird turnaround to have midpost when it's on someone you're saying you're scumreading?

[Cheetory6]

You say that Cheetory my friend but uh

I'm a slow learner unfortunately.

Happy to turn the pressure cooker on zaiden if some of the lurkier slots start being townier.

[Cheetory6]

hectic is in another game.

[Cheetory6]

I also almost made that joke. o_o

[Cheetory6]

I'm not just saying this because I want you to vote Zaiden but you are voting one of my confident townreads. Not telling you to stop of course, I'm just curious to see where it leads. Before you ask 'Maria why do you townread Spring!' Ask me again later.

I'm going to hope you're wrong on both counts for the sake of my ego D:

[Cheetory6]

lol.

[Cheetory6]

hi murder anything else to add

[Cheetory6]

also I keep thinking ur Saudade!!!!!!!! AHHHHH

lmfao

[Cheetory6]

@spring

can I get a read on PrivateI from you?

[Cheetory6]

their line on me was the worst thing they posted, but other than that, nullish. i'm curious to see how they'll respond!

was there a reason you didn't feel like poking at him about it?

[Cheetory6]

oh wait I'm daft you did.
I really need a nap.

[Cheetory6]

feels like he was putting on a show.

I'm generally a melodramatic person ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cheetory6]

my readstate is kind of fuzzy rn so I probably need to reset and recenter so that's probably a later tonight thing.

[Cheetory6]

spring

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: zaiden

[Cheetory6]

@privateI

, shea would like to know what your team's experience is with noraa.

[Cheetory6]

I'm pretty sure I put more effort into trying to read you in fortnight.
(:

[Cheetory6]

Like I'm literally going to start casing at some point and if I have a confident read I'm going to be very obviously town.
I really don't get why you're wasting all of this effort on trying to make a big deal out of me without actually engaging anything in terms of my posting here.

[Cheetory6]

I'm voting zaiden because my other scumreads fizzled and I'm willing to sheep Maria while I recenter. There's really nothing complicated about it.

[Cheetory6]

And in terms of the soft defense on zaiden, it just feels like the stilted approach is going to be unsustainable for scum in the long run.
Maybe a better way to put it is that I don't really think the slot can coast their way through the game.

[Cheetory6]

apparently you do if you're town because your read trajectory on me sucks lol.

[Cheetory6]

but like if it's that you don't want to engage me because fortnight is actually still a sore spot then I can just drop this.
p-edit: its literally a sheep?

pp-edit: the guy is literally a walking miselim waiting to happen when people run out of slots to push.

[Cheetory6]

zaiden yes.
his reasoning for things is extremely hard to parse alignment from and his engagement is surface level.
it could just be a personality thing, but there's literally no way you can get to endgame playing like that.
so unless he starts playing drastically differently I don't really see the point in trying to push him when his content is likely going to be difficult to genuinely parse (or at least that's where I'm coming from) if I have something better to push and right now I don't.

Maria's one of my strongest townreads and I suspect creating a good town voting block is going to be important this game so I'm down to follow her on this at least until I have some time and energy to read things again.

[Cheetory6]

@cake, yeah it's probable.
I pursued other players that I thought would be easier to sort in the interim and right now I don't really have something that feels worth pushing.
I could sit on my hands and keep my vote on spring when I'm not really feeling a vote there but that feels pointless.

[Cheetory6]

@pooky

are your teammates touching this game at all?

[Cheetory6]

it's literally a direct reaction to the post above it how is that overjustification?

[Cheetory6]

cuz what has been said so far

also please unpack what this is referring to?

[Cheetory6]

my 2AM in the morning brain is being pretty bullish rn so apologies if I'm being overbearing,
but I'm being defensive right now because I really dislike being scumread (even if I know it's a literal part of the game (one of the many reasons I try not to play anymore lol)).

the followup I had with SPF doesn't address what she was referring to there for you?

[Cheetory6]

I think maria's gut is probably more accurate/reliable than my headspace right now and I'd ideally like to coordinate with people I think are town.

[Cheetory6]

@cheetory you won't like it but that's just my playstyle for early. I don't think it's fair to expect someone to be able to write a doctorate thesis on deep reads when I have no history of playing with people here/knowing their habits. You say meta isn't important, but it feels like you expect me to somehow be the same as everyone else going off vibes from prior experience/be able to tell what player based scum slips are, which I would personally classify as meta. Like what even???

So in my experience there's a spectrum of mafia playstyle between impulse and logic. Players who play off the cuff and use vibes to try to figure things out are generally easier to read off of their tone/activity.
To me you fall on the wayyy other end of the spectrum of calculated and logical, which is fine, if that was unclear. It's just harder for me to get a handle on someone whose content-posting is a lot more curated/prepared.
(especially when I just want to be lazy and respond to everything without having to read back )

Digging into your votes so far, we've got:
1. An RVS vote on Pooky.
2. A vote on Spring which is essentially a reactionary vote to Spring voting you in RVS.
3. A vote on Jake for not engaging others in good faith.

The vote on Spring is a little odd because you came into the game with an RVS vote and seem to understand the implication that people in this game vote randomly. So to question Spring about why she voted you seems kind of like busywork? Can you walk me through what your thought process was there?

3. I think we should be looking at Jake as a candidate for our D1 eject because they're saying it's bad to target LHF. At first I thought this meant he was referring to other players, and maybe he was protecting his own scum teammates from scrutiny. But after reading through it more carefully the LHF Jake was talking about was actually himself. I still don't think it's a good defence though or even a legitimate point against SPF. If I was accused of being LHF, my first reaction would be to prove I'm actually a HHF. Not to deflect like that.

If Jake has a track record of being miselimmed regularly in the past, why would it take an approach of trying to pretend it's a LHF if it doesn't believe that's the case? Wouldn't that make it seem more suspicious? I don't really understand how that tracks.

Also he jumped straight to asking Gamma who should be killed to deflect attention away from himself/them. Imo this early on we should be asking who looks scummy, why are they scummy and observe further comments/replies they make. Then ask whether they should they be killed or if there are other more suspicious people. His line of logic does not follow that natural order I've just given. But Hectic and Hopkirk disagree with me. They think Jake seems pretty good, but I've been right before when they've been wrong so.

I'm assuming this is referring to this yeah?:

Gamma! If you had to kill someone right now, who would it be?

Why is it to deflect away from itself rather than to try to parse Gamma's biggest scumread? Gamma's seemed pretty opaque this game, so I'm curious why you felt this couldn't have been an attempt to get him to be more transparent about his thought process.

The questions they've asked seem pretty agenda driven to me.

Which other questions apply for this?

I can understand why Cheetory would think I'm bad based off my opening post.

I don't think you're bad at the game, if that was the implication you took from my posts. (though I think the worst thing I said was that your posting felt stilted so I'm not sure where this came from, maybe me being a dufus with the wendy's comment? q_q)

Also, can you drop some reads on other slots in the game/drop any other reads that your teammates have?

[Cheetory6]

is there an explanation for maria!town?

It feels like she's got a lot of protown energy in her posting vs just keeping up an appearance of doing something to coast through. Like keeping thoughts close to chest while also poking and prodding people in a way that connects back to what she's currently pushing. It's a little hard to explain but I just feel it down in my old bones. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cheetory6]

In retrospect, after reading through the thread without being sleep deprived, I think Gamma's unwillingness to talk about reads/thoughts on the game state when pushed for it seems pretty bad. But I think MWB did mention what would scum Gamma have to gain from posting like that? Would jester be bastard or non-bastard in this setup?

If you feel this way about Gamma on reread, where does that put your reaction to Jake's questioning/vote on him?

@cheetory you won't like it but that's just my playstyle for early. I don't think it's fair to expect someone to be able to write a doctorate thesis on deep reads when I have no history of playing with people here/knowing their habits. You say meta isn't important, but it feels like you expect me to somehow be the same as everyone else going off vibes from prior experience/be able to tell what player based scum slips are, which I would personally classify as meta. Like what even???

I don't really think the logical structure of your pushes on people has given me the impression that you genuinely believe that someone is mafia.
It could be a playstyle thing, but, stuff like this:

I think Spring Breeze's push onto me is questionable as heck. I apologise if I offended you for calling you a simpathiser. But your reaction to me comes across more like personal dislike/reaction to my previous vote on you, as opposed to coming from a place of good reason and genuine logic. For now I have Spring Breeze/Pooky as nulls.

Feels more like you're applying a calculation to what your read on Spring should be, rather than a genuine feeling as to whether someone is or isn't mafia.

[Cheetory6]

do we get a push from you at some point S_S or is it just a lot more of these fun quips?

[Cheetory6]

Sheas on ur team? Oh goodness gracious. I'm gonna get absolutely tunneled aren't I?

he's actually been pretty in your corner this game.

[Cheetory6]

The reason it felt genuine is cuz you probs could've thrown a pinch of AtE in there if u wanted to but you didn't.

I do love throwing a dash of AtE into posts just as a little treat though.
(:

[Cheetory6]

@Cheet why did you suddenly start efforting on page 26

I woke up, had a nice bit of coffee and decided I felt like reading the game like a good boy instead of just reacting to things.

[Cheetory6]

If Zaiden is mafia then Cakez goes directly into the diebin.

[Cheetory6]

I disagree. Surely Cakez would distance the shit out of buddy-Zaiden?

Maybe.
It's a strange take on Zaiden regardless.

[Cheetory6]

I mean, I personally wasn't expecting it, but I think that's baggage from another game, regardless of whether Cakez is scum here or not, I think he does genuinely dislike me for interactions from another game.

[Cheetory6]

I mean, I personally wasn't expecting it, but I think that's baggage from another game, regardless of whether Cakez is scum here or not, I think he does genuinely dislike me for interactions from another game.

Also tbf I definitely poked the bear with the comment. It was snarky.

p-edit: Because Zaiden can be genuinely upset as scum for the exact same reasons and you're not touching anything besides the emotions of the post which feels weird.

[Cheetory6]

Ok but I don't feel like Zaiden opens this way as scum here

.. why??

[Cheetory6]

He hasn't played with anyone here before and he immediately starts dumping walls into the thread about how unsure he is and starts picking at players as scum? He is just inviting people to analyze him with his playstyle atm.

What if that's what he believed would be the most genuine replication of what he would be doing as town and he's just not able to capture that well?
Mafia don't always know the best way to approach a game.

[Cheetory6]

wow nice two lockscum already

[Cheetory6]

I think midway could be under the radar mafia but it's more one of those "this person seems townish but could be fooling me"-thoughts rather than an actual feeling if that makes sense?
Their play is productive enough that unless there's an airtight case on them they're probably going to be a mid-lategame sort/going to be caught through interactions with teammates, or at least that's what I'm feeling.

Kind of siding with S_S in that you could be right that they TMI-ed, but I'm not really feeling the same way looking at the post.

[Cheetory6]

I'll make a note to ISOdive them when I've got some time and then at that point we can compare notes in a meaningful way?
I'm admittedly being lazier with this game than I should be and I don't want to take the wind out of your sails just because I'm not reading things in-depth S:

[Cheetory6]

pinkball can you drop some zaiden thoughts

[Cheetory6]

why

[Cheetory6]

is anyone townreading pink ball?

[Cheetory6]

do you feel as though you've been a pain in the ass to scum so far?

[Cheetory6]

there's generally an inclination to use the full day cycle but I don't think we should feel the need to if we can isolate a read we're collectively confident in.
I think artificially waiting to get rid of someone because of being concerned about sorting the entire playerlist on D1 can make the gamestate worse.

[Cheetory6]

you could vote for zaiden
nothing says incentive to answer a big block of questions like a nice wagon.

[Cheetory6]

641 & 643 are both posts I would ideally like a comprehensive response from zaiden on.

[Cheetory6]

I mean if it were an attempt at casing him the two points would be:
1. Zaiden pushed Spring for voting him being like "why did you vote for me what was the reason dun dun dunnnn"
but the guy literally did an RVS vote so it doesn't really make sense that he wouldn't understand that the vote on him was RVS.
2. The bottom quote in 643 reads like he's doing math to determine what his reads should be rather than being a genuine read. Like "oh this person did A and B so if we add those together we get null" which is kind of fake feeling.

I moreso just want answers to the questions and I think pressure will make it more likely that he dedicates effort to actually responding in full to them rather than haphazardly like he has with other responses to things.

[Cheetory6]

I think pink ball is playing to town meta

as scum or town? (unclear on this phrasing sorry)

[Cheetory6]

Also, a townie has no reason to be as callous and denigrating as Cheetory in his interrogation of me - oh Zaiden would be useless anyway as the game goes on so it's a win win

Literally not what I said at all:

his reasoning for things is extremely hard to parse alignment from and his engagement is surface level.
it could just be a personality thing, but there's literally no way you can get to endgame playing like that.

This reads to you like I'm saying you're bad so it's not a loss?
Like, this is such an overreaction.
Quote me where I'm being as much of an asshole as you're saying I'm being.

[Cheetory6]

I'm literally pushing you to answer questions so that I can sort you and have given reasons why I'm pushing you
and your response to that is to call me a fucking asshole?????
What?

[Cheetory6]

I'm gonna VLA I can't deal with this.
Hbd zaiden and cakez you don't have to listen to me supposedly be a huge fucking asshole I guess!

[Cheetory6]

I can replace out if people think I'm actually being an asshole.

[Cheetory6]

@cheetory7, you can't have it both ways. Being an asshole to others and trying to make them crumble then pretending it's too much to take and pretending to be a victim here. Some people actually fight back when you try to invalidate their efforts and break down their self esteem. Don't think for a second I'm an easy target to pick on.

If you're mafia and this is all just theater to try to detract momentum from your wagon then you are such a fucking fragile person.

[Cheetory6]

I feel like I'm going insane.
The only post that could be driving the reaction zaiden had was one he had already reacted to?
Because the way he responded to gyp made it seem like he completely ignored the post where I asked him questions and I really don't think I said anything that could even remotely be construed as rude about him after
591 which I can only assume is what drove the reactions in 617 and 635.

The only development that happened between 635 and 798 is that a wagon started which was driven by questioning which he didn't find offensive when he was directed to it by gyp.

Am I crazy?
Like I genuinely don't understand how people are looking at that reaction and thinking it tracks with the timeline.

[Cheetory6]

God I want to close this game but this is driving me up the wall.

[Cheetory6]

Agree that Jingle looks way worse than Noraa or Gyp.

[Cheetory6]

and s_s and midway too?
I think you might have too many scumreads.

[Cheetory6]

@noraa, I think you should like take a step back and read for a bit and then come back with like.. summarized thoughts.
The freeform flow of thought posting isn't really helping you (and tbh I think the gamestate could use a little breathing room after yesterday). q_q

I still kind of think you're town here, but flipping from "this person is a townlean" to "this person is probably confscum" just optically makes it seem like your reads are made out of nothing.

[Cheetory6]

see: meta is trash.
There's no reason you can't play against those expectations if you're aware of them and can control them.

[Cheetory6]

@spf

it seemed to me, especially with the followup gyp had that he was being a combination of lazy/inaccurate,
probably due to jumping into the thread while not really wanting to effort or not having a strong feeling on the game.

The phrasing in 767 feels more like he's just saying he generally doesn't know where to go next, not that he's unvoting because
he's currently pushing MWB and is changing his mind on the matter and thus unvoting.
It comes across like.. two separate thoughts being included in the same post.

I don't think being uninvested at that point is scummy and I think there are other points in the game that gyp has been solvey. Plus I think Gyp strikes me as the type that would be a little more calculating/careful as mafia, whereas he more seems detached rn, and I think he would just coast if he was scum.

I'd wanted to respond sooner/pick at MorningTweet's casing on him but I'm trying to force myself to not touch this game (and moderately failing in doing so if I'm being honest (': )

I might try to do some ISOdives if I manage to get enough work done tonight.

p-edit: noraa regardless of whether you're town or scum here, I think you're overdoing it in terms of the "if u think im scum then ur dumb or scum" stuff. I totally get that it's frustrating being scumread but you should try to work on responding to it in a less destructive way regardless of what your alignment is here because it's bad for gamestate, makes people feel bad and probably isn't helping anyone read you more accurately.

[Cheetory6]

started at the bottom now we're here

[Cheetory6]

you said you're playing differently intentionally this game.
shouldn't it be unsurprising that people are wary of that?

[Cheetory6]

cake is a decent ways over the null line.
one may even call him a townlean of mine.

[Cheetory6]

Also with reference to Clidd both Hopkirk and Hectic told me that scum are more likely to sub out - which also makes wary of Morning Tweet. And given the game state it seemed convenient they would immediately attack on Nora seemed quite opportunistic to me. And also it adds to my scumlean on Cheetory who said they were considering subbing out. Although Hectic and Hopkirk are divided on Cheetory. Hectic thinks Cheetory's anger comes from a genuine place where it seems like he doesn't know my alignment hence I've been attacked over the possibility of 'theatreeing' as scum. Hopkirk thinks that Cheetory's early vote on Gamma doesn't strike him as genuine town trying to form a read + his subsequent progression in logic for reads and votes doesn't across as natural. I feel like taking Hopkirk's side on this one. Even if we set aside anything personal from yesterday I don't trust Cheetory or believe they are acting in good faith. If I didn't respond to their questions immediately to me it was one post among many and I was feeling very overwhelmed by dozens of posts at the time.

Would love for Hopkirk to unpack those thoughts of his in detail for you to deliver to me. Thanks.

[Cheetory6]

Also, can you just stop and engage me on the fact that this is now the third or fourth time that I've tried to explain to you that the quote that you're making such a huge deal out of, is not me saying that your playstyle is shit and that you're a shit player.
I literally prefaced the start of my question batch with an explanation of why that wasn't the case and you still haven't acknowledged that.
Do you think I'm just lying about that? Like I seriously just don't get it.
Read this:

So in my experience there's a spectrum of mafia playstyle between impulse and logic. Players who play off the cuff and use vibes to try to figure things out are generally easier to read off of their tone/activity.
To me you fall on the wayyy other end of the spectrum of calculated and logical, which is fine, if that was unclear. It's just harder for me to get a handle on someone whose content-posting is a lot more curated/prepared.
(especially when I just want to be lazy and respond to everything without having to read back )

and this:

I don't think you're bad at the game, if that was the implication you took from my posts. (though I think the worst thing I said was that your posting felt stilted so I'm not sure where this came from, maybe me being a dufus with the wendy's comment? q_q)

Also, can you drop some reads on other slots in the game/drop any other reads that your teammates have?

This reads to you like I'm bullying you? Seriously like if this is a misunderstanding just like stop and read the posts and acknowledge them and fucking level this tension because I really do not feel like I've been an asshole to you in any way shape or form and you continuing to dance around the big sections of my push post on you where I tried to address what you were saying is fucking bothering me a lot.

[Cheetory6]

Also in terms of me being flaky, I am just generally an unstable and flaky player.
I genuinely hate playing mafia a lot of the time and would not be playing in team mafia if it weren't for having been asked to by people I like.

[Cheetory6]

Cheet's desire to sheep her is suspicious

I'm imagining myself popping an inno child and you still somehow having doubts about me somehow masterminding this game. Lol.

[Cheetory6]

Yeah but why go to her immediately?

Townblocking, I'm following my gut on Maria because it's been marginally okay on reading her previously, I think Maria's a good townplayer/was confident about her read and Zaiden was not a townread.

[Cheetory6]

Eh I think it's kind of a reasonable thing to poke about.
It's just kind of weird that it feels like everything I'm doing is particularly under a microscope for him in a way that he's not really applying to anyone else.

[Cheetory6]

I think if you spend all game doubting your reads because they could be wrong then you're going to have a miserable game.
I'd personally rather trust myself on D1 barring like legitimate reasoning for someone being mafia (which I don't really feel anyone has put forward for Maria beyond just like.. IT COULD BE HER DUN DUN DUN)
there's plenty of time for resorting and reconfiguring/being paranoid, but like, I feel like if you think someone is town, it shouldn't be a big deal to trust your gut this early in the game especially with someone like Maria who we would never be eliminating D1 anyways short of an amazing coordinated push (which I don't really think was going to happen anyways?).

I remember GUNNER mafia trying to get scumher eliminated D1 being an enormous pain in the ass that I wouldn't want to go through unless people were genuinely confident that she were mafia here which I don't think people are.

Whole lotta words for:
hey find a scum on D1 and kill them and try not to stress about every single player in the playerlist because it legitimately does not matter this early.

[Cheetory6]

@Jingle:

1.

I don't think I've ever legitimately scumread you before, though. It's new and exciting.

can you walk through what you thought looked different here?
And also what changed in your assessment at this point:

I'm coming around on you being town, btw, PB.

2.

Despite this, there is like no effort put into convincing anyone that I'm actually scum.

Is this something that you expect from her town playstyle?

3.

Combining that with the fact that she's scumreading mwb for sheeping a Nancy read while ignoring PB doing literally the exact same thing

I don't really think this is an accurate assessment of this situation.
Noraa said that it was scummy to say that both Pooky and her are town as the assessment, not the sheeping itself which is very different.

4. Can I get some more words on why you and Dann are particularly confident in your MWB read? I would agree that they're being very protown, but I'd like an elaboration on why it's coming across as a given that he's town for the both of you.

======================================================
=this section serves as a transition from my isodive questions to my general thoughts=
======================================================

Will drop thoughts on Jingle himself later (probably when I get some answers to these), but I will say that during my Jingle dive I did feel a nagging thought in the back of my head on Noraa. Someone's probably already said this but her acknowledging that she's historically been elimbait as town while thinking that she should be obvtown feels like it should run up against her own expectations of her townplay?
Idk what to make of that.
Is logical dissonance scummy for someone who's got an extremely emotional playstyle?

[Cheetory6]

Oh also had this in my notes from the ISOdive and missed it,

@Jingle

can you elaborate on your Gyp trajectory this game?

[Cheetory6]

Eh I probably should have held the thought until doing an ISOdive on you.
(but then I also kind of dread having to read that much while thinking (': )

[Cheetory6]

@Pink Ball

,

1. Can you expand on your current read on Gamma's play so far this game? It seems like you have a decent amount of experience with him and his play so far seems ~interesting~
relative to my own expectations of him, would be interested in a full assessment from you.
(There's also that your read on him came on very very hot and has since mellowed out, so curious what's driven that for you?)

2. I'd like to poke at your Spring Breeze vote.
I'm pretty conflicted on you holding your reasoning for your read on her just from a like.. effectiveness standpoint?
Like, if I tell someone I'm scumreading them and I don't explain why and I use that as a means to get a reaction from them that's one thing.
It doesn't really feel like you're doing that there though because you've stated that you're like.. ridiculously confident about it already and don't need more information on her slot specifically.
Is there a reason you're not poking at other slots reactions around Spring? The only real interaction around Spring that you've touched is this:

Kanna just sucks at reading me generally so I'm weirded out that she's right but I'm waiting on her reply to that atm.

not sure what you want me to reply to? my teammates think you're town and after discussing with them, i agreed. i just read your catch up though and i had an epiphany that you're town by myself. i really see what infinity means by the spew whatever even if it looks bad = town!noraa now

i wouldn't say the "kanna can't read me" thing is accurate as well, i can point out to why i ended up reading you wrong in every one of those games and i think they were just unfortunate

Could you show us how exactly the conversation with your team wrt to Noraa was?

I have a whole case on you that I don't want to present because I have a team behind me that townleans you and don't want me to push you

I feel like you can ask Spring about things related to your reasoning without casing her in a way that would be a lot more productive than this.
Like, you've already put Spring under a microscope by voting for her and telling her you have a huge case on her.
Wouldn't it have been better to have not said anything about your read to see what happens
or to be pressuring them at this point because they're already going to be being careful?

3. Would also like some comprehensive thoughts on Jingle's play so far this game if you have some time to do so.

[Cheetory6]

2. I mean there's the possibility that you're just mafia not wanting to rock the boat until end of cycle with this Spring Breeze case while getting to coast through on eventually presenting it, is my big concern.
I feel like the cat was out of the bag the moment you voted Spring and said you had a big case, but like if you want to hold it and face 10x scrutiny from me later in the cycle then that's fine.

3. Do you think Dann is better at reading you than Jingle?

p-edit: I don't particularly want to case Zaiden again tbh.
I will say that there is a certain dodginess in terms of his interaction that feels really off and I'm honestly like.. really surprised nobody else has pointed out just how much Zaiden is selectively choosing what he does and does not respond to.

[Cheetory6]

But I'd much rather eventually vote someone else when I'm a little more grounded again, (admittedly partially because I would prefer not be shitted on for pursuing a read, especially when everyone seems to be townreading him for being emotional).

p-edit: oh no don't threaten me with something good think of the children.

[Cheetory6]

Also just like a thing I've been keeping close to chest because it's kind of eh but
I just don't really believe the whole big curated anger post thing when he's shown he's comfortable posting small too.

Like, if I'm angry and I'm getting into it with someone, I'm not going to wait a day and a half to respond to someone when they respond to something I've said.
This post indicates that he's willing to get into it:

@cheetory7, you can't have it both ways. Being an asshole to others and trying to make them crumble then pretending it's too much to take and pretending to be a victim here. Some people actually fight back when you try to invalidate their efforts and break down their self esteem. Don't think for a second I'm an easy target to pick on.

Which makes me think that him subsequently disengaging and not addressing anything I've posted since just feels... very off to me and I don't really believe any of his posts calling me mafia.

I really think that someone in that position should instead still be very mad at me and responding.
It just does not feel like a real timeline of someone who is seethingly mad at someone for something.

Hectic is literally obligated to townread me here and I'm still waiting for the Hopkirk stuff to pick apart so that's where I'm at.

I could case this like 100x harder but I frankly don't really want to deal with whatever he's going to spew back at me by potentially misinterpreting me again (whether intentionally or not?) and I'd rather read and recenter at this point than just spend the entire game getting into it with someone who people aren't really choosing to engage me on.

p-edit:

2. Do you think I've been coasting through? I stated who's my biggest scumread and I've focused on the rest of the game 'cause I already caught one scum.

I think scumhunting is the hardest thing for mafia to fake, so, it's very difficult for me to get a gauge of your play when you're unwilling to actively push a scumread.

[Cheetory6]

I'm all flustered again. Zzzz.

[Cheetory6]

I can add another ISOdive to my pile of awful for after midwaybear if you'd like to trade notes eventually.

[Cheetory6]

Give me a player and I'll give you a cliff of my notes and an iso if desired.

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

yay it's a small ISO, I'm not really sure how useful I'll be with him when his content level is so.. uh.. limited? but I'll do my best.

A second set of eyes on Pink Ball would probably be most helpful for me.

do you TR Maria here now?

I'd say my lazyread on her is still town, but I'm kind of weirdly at a point where I don't really care what Maria's alignment is. Lol.

Noraa took exception to only one of these behaviors.

So when I was reading your ISO, I genuinely thought that there was dissonance for that in terms of your read, but when reading Pink Ball's ISO I kind of understood that you may have meant this.

However! When rereading the post I noticed that the bottom of your post includes this bit:

And also sheeping reads on Maria herself.

Can you walk me through how her sheep on Maria is also the same situation and not general sheeping?

1. Early days PB didn't seem to have much paranoia and was a lot more sitting-on-the-sidelines than I'm used to. There wasn't anything particularly damning I can point to, but he had an overall sense of wrongness to him that made me think scum. My read started shifting around the time he clarified that he thought I was memeing on the scumread, and without looking back to pull specific examples it was basically that the specific questions he was asking looked like they were designed to dig into peoples motivations and an overall agreement with the conclusions he was coming to. His gotcha moment with Noraa is a slight red flag (generally I find scum more likely to try to push people into logical corners like that than town) but I like his readslist and the good outweighs the bad.

Can you also take a look at Pink Ball's vote on Spring/the subsequent holding of a case and talk about what you think about it?

[Cheetory6]

if Zaiden is indeed scum it is definitely with Jingle I think

hell yeah

[Cheetory6]

Can you walk me through how her sheep on Maria is also the same situation and not general sheeping?

this may be a slip by jingle btw for anyone who cares
god im so HYPE

[Cheetory6]

perhaps you could simply choose to be more town.
see now I get to make a fun snarky quip for once.

[Cheetory6]

She's sheeping YOUR townread (a player she didn't express any read whatsoever on) on Maria. Implying that regardless of your alignment your read had validity.

Isn't that an entirely different situation though?

[Cheetory6]

Like maybe I'm just being stupid but that doesn't seem like the same thing at all to me.

[Cheetory6]

Like first two cases are:
I think A and B are both town because A calls B town.
And latter is I think B is town because A thinks B is town.

You're missing the A is town bit.
And it kind of makes me feel like the original reasoning was just sheeping and you're retrofitting it now.

[Cheetory6]

I guess it's possible I'm just stupid and can't logic lol.

[Cheetory6]

Ah fuck you are right.
D:
I was so excited I thought I had something lmao.

[Cheetory6]

yeah it's kind of a nothingburger in hindsight anyways.
someday I'll genuinely find a scumslip.

[Cheetory6]

yall have some wild takes on this game
and I say this primarily so you can use it as documented evidence with which to point and laugh at me postgame if I'm wrong.

[Cheetory6]

i have town as a TL

like idk about this one.
town seems pretty suspicious this game.

[Cheetory6]

@Jingle

, I don't really think the bulk of my latest post on him is useful or convincing, but I did touch on how his engagement with the game is incredibly selective in terms of what posts he does and does not acknowledge in a way that feels kind of wrong. Like, I'm especially having a hard time believing that nobody on his team has pointed at some of my other posting to be like "hey I don't think that's what Cheet is saying about you" and the complete avoidance of that as a subject matter since then is like.

Idk like if you track the commentary on me from start to finish compared to the timing of his posts and mine it just makes no sense to me.

[Cheetory6]

You're both wrong. Town is locktown. Soulread, sheep me and take it to the bank.

[Cheetory6]

If you continue to refuse owning up to it that says more about all of you and your lack of accountability than it does me.

So your teammates have looked at the post that you're saying I was a dickhead in and have agreed with you.

[Cheetory6]

Can you quote the post that you think I said this.

[Cheetory6]

Like maybe I'm missing it and I said it somewhere, but I really do not understand what post you're referring to.

[Cheetory6]

I don't really think I would infuse anyway near as much negative connotation with the phrase walking miselim but I can get disliking me having said that.
Referring back to another one of my posts, I said that people on this site generally have a harder time reading logical players (or at least I felt like it was part of what was making you harder to read for me), and that was a part of where I was coming from in saying that, on top of you being a new player that nobody here knows. When people can't understand someone, that makes them a lot easier to eliminate. That's a large basis of where I was coming from in that post.

I also think that surface level engagement is pretty commonplace for someone who's inexperienced with site culture and getting to know a playerbase, (and also mafia, which was part of the point of me saying that) it doesn't really have anything to do with someone being shit at the game.

There aren't many players that I would actively call shit at the game.
If you're unsure of what I mean from a post just like poke me about it in the future. If I'm actively trying to be an asshole to you, it'll probably be a lot more obvious, I promise.

[Cheetory6]

genuinely dont feel like zaiden would take those comments so personally if he was playing from a scum mindset. i suppose that isnt something i can say definitively since i don't "know" him, but i do think that town tend to be more sensitive to feeling like their worth/utility to the game is being questioned

yeah.

UNVOTE:
god that really fucks with my gamestate assessment.

[Cheetory6]

cake can you vote yourself I think that should fulfill his requirements.

[Cheetory6]

okay murder lets hear it

[Cheetory6]

I don't really think I would infuse anyway near as much negative connotation with the phrase walking miselim but I can get disliking me having said that.

Also, if it means anything, I'll try to scrub the term from my mafia vocab and I'm sorry for using it instead of expanding my thoughts because I do understand where you're coming from now.

[Cheetory6]

I guess it can be really hard to convey tone online because the way you post is generally snarky so I played that back in my head with a snarky tone.

Honestly not an unfair assessment of my posting lol.

I try to make the snark/serious/joke parts of my posts distinct but sometimes I don't do a great job of that.

And as I said, I apologise for lashing out and making you feel terrible because from the general reactions it was a misunderstanding on my own end and you didn't mean it.

S'all good. It's hard to understand people under the best of circumstances, let alone in a social deduction game over the internet (':

[Cheetory6]

midway is very town in the ISOdive once you get past the earlygame jitters.

VOTE: Something_Smart
I'd like for you to unpack your read on Jake.

[Cheetory6]

General thoughts:

I'm letting my Zaiden read go. I agree that the specific things that Zaiden took offense at are things that it doesn't really make that much sense to get that upset at as mafia, my teammates have been very explicit in saying he's most likely town and my gut's been known to be wrong about things every once in a blue moon.

I'm going to take the controversial and unbrave stance of there being exact one mafia in the pile of Pink Ball/Spring Breeze and that can be an end of day sorting problem.

Jingle's play is just generally protown to the point where I'm probably just going to ignore my gut on his tone for now as I'm not particularly confident and don't think I can afford to wagon him and end up being wrong :V

S_S has only been questioning people that he thinks are town which feels pretty skeevy in the aggregate.

I haven't done a Jake ISOdive yet but it feels like its done nothing since it was pushed and it feels like Jake's trying to coast its way through the game.

Jake and S_S are my highest priority sorts rn.

[Cheetory6]

Nobody can read anyone off of your reaction to him, it's a very common problem in mafia where being confident about someone being mafia is not enough to convince other people that someone is mafia.
Jingle is someone you're only going to be able to wagon if you have airtight reasoning that people can digest and if the argument hinges on your expectations of other people's play not lining up, nobody has any way of understanding that short of doing like a huge amount of research into you, Jingle and Aristophanes and that's probably just not going to happen for more than 1-2 people if you're lucky.

If you want him gone you should try to case him in a way that other people are going to actually understand where you're coming from, and not case him in a way that you believe that you would yourself be convinced of, if that makes sense?

[Cheetory6]

Like find 1-2 things that you think the average person will be like "aw shit yeah I can get behind that" and push those.
You're not going to be sheeped off of you telling people that they should sheep you.

[Cheetory6]

There's also that if you're not confident that you can make this wagon happen and it would create an enormous motivation consuming nightmare post mass, it's probably more productive to note that Jingle is mafia and try to find his partners and push them because it will be a lot easier.

[Cheetory6]

There's also that if you're not confident that you can make this wagon happen and it would create an enormous motivation consuming nightmare post mass, it's probably more productive to note that Jingle is mafia and try to find his partners and push them because it will be a lot easier.

There's also the bonus that if people run out of people who they think are mafia, they tend to expand their pool of players that they think could be mafia.
So pushing other players can make it more viable for wagons on harder to sort players happen sooner.

[Cheetory6]

Noraa have you ever townread someone who wanted to eliminate you?

[Cheetory6]

Sorry, was kind of a stupid question.
I'm going to stop doing mafia theory posts for now because I feel like I'm just bloating the thread with my trashy trash braintrash thoughts.

Can we beat up Something_Smart and Jake, take their lunch money and figure out what their alignment is and if they both towntell we can beat up Jingle, take his lunch money and figure out what his alignment is?

[Cheetory6]

this is a stick-up something_smart

Code: Select all

	
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    \)                 *                |________|
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give me all of your scumreads.

[Cheetory6]

I don't really believe that read on Jake tbh.

[Cheetory6]

Hi everyone it's time to eject the impostor please place your votes on I guess it would be light blue given his avatar.

[Cheetory6]

Because Pink Ball is going to have to drop his read eventually and enough of my townreads aren't seeing what I'm seeing with Pink Ball but okay sure lets pretend like you suddenly want to scumhunt.
(:

[Cheetory6]

What are you trying to accomplish by antagonizing me? I do want to scumhunt. I wanted to get to this game yesterday but I got super distracted by a project I started and was excited about.

You didn't really answer the first question. Why exactly one scum in PB/SB?

Hopefully getting some kind of reaction. You've been relatively antagonistic as well this game so I don't really understand why you're taking issue with it.

And it's just a feeling based on gamestate/partially an excuse so I can justify to myself why I'm not pushing Pink Ball right now when I want to.

[Cheetory6]

I was also pointing out something, not really sure why you think that was different from what you've been doing.

[Cheetory6]

Walk me through your headspace.
Do you feel like your approach this game feels like you're trying to parse people?
Because from where I'm standing, it feels like the entirety of your interaction has been asking people you already think are town questions.

I also just don't really understand why you would townlean Jake at this point when it hasn't done anything since the push on it stopped.

[Cheetory6]

@S_S

, well it seemed like you were trying to offbalance me pushing you with yet another question that doesn't really feel like you're trying to sort anything and is instead just like..
something that's immediately questionable looking but not scummy? But yeah I'm a little mean to my scumreads in a way that's probably not productive and I can try to ease that back.

I'm not so confident there's exactly 1 mafia in that pile like you're saying. But I can buy into the idea that that there could be one one given the unusual intensity of their interactions and it's been bugging me since their first few interactions earlier in the game. I'm also down to dive deeper here though I think there's other cases that are wider in the open.

Yeah I'm kind of at a place where when we're like halfway into the phase we should start bullying Pink Ball to post the case because he may otherwise just be coasting off of the promise of content that he gets to spend 6+ days preparing in advance.

I agree that Jake has been sitting back a bit now when the scrutiny shifted from them to me/Jingle. They've offered some takes which mainly consist of flinging dirt at myself and Jingle + less active players. That seems rather driven by survival as opposed to genuine scum hunting.

Yeah I'm down to vote there if S_S starts being town.

Also when you talk about wanting to focus Jake or S_S, what do you (and other people) generally make of the possibility that Cakez was trying to pocket me? Unwarranted paranoia from Team Team Team Team Team or genuine ground for that to be a possibility? I'm generally reading you as less scummy now but the way you haven't really engaged with that angle when I've spoken about it (you bad cop Cakez good cop scum buddy routine) is making me wonder if you're intentionally avoiding it.

I think from a tone standpoint that Cakez is hard to read, but I find it hard to believe that his engagement with me this game is fake and I don't really know if there's a good way for me to convey why to you because it's very much so based on my experience with him previously and I don't really think you would/should find that engaging.

[Cheetory6]

probably not productive

Or I guess it's kind of productive in a sorting-sense but probably not worth the added game tension.

[Cheetory6]

I guess my question is, do you think I'm your highest priority sort here?
Because that's part of why I find what you're choosing to question weird.

[Cheetory6]

So Jake's engagement this game doesn't feel survivalistic to you without the much needed added component of genuine scumhunting going along with it?
Because to me it seems like Jake was only active in response to the wagon and the actual substance of their votes/scumreads is kind of just not really there.

The drop in activity afterwards really does nothing to affect the reading of the early on reaction?

[Cheetory6]

Also I want to clear this up once and for all. Could someone write me an Explain Like I'm 5 about soulread/mindmeld or is this a meme that's completely whooshed over my head?

Soulread is like
"I can feel this person's alignment deep within my soul"
and
mindmeld is like..
"me and this person we have combined our brains into an all powerful conglomerate and all of our opinions on the gamestate are aligned as a result of this"

[Cheetory6]

Can you pull posts that you feel look like genuine scumhunting from Jake's ISO?

[Cheetory6]

I mean it feels like you're ignoring the "genuine" part of what I said?
If I had said "Jake has not even pretended to scumhunt" I could get the argument you're making for how this is a misrep but it feels like you dodged the entire point of the question and linked me every question Jake's asked in the thread. q_q

[Cheetory6]

How would you describe how you usually find scumreads?

[Cheetory6]

I think you can make a stronger point by saying "Cakez isn't making an active push" rather than even talking about the shade aspect.
There's a lot of added noise that makes it harder for me to even follow the point because you're including shade which you've acknowledged he does in his towngames, albeit with different purpose.
I think you can even just say that Cakez is generally not that focused with his pushes this game which feels off and I would probably nod my head and agree with you without even opening those posts. (':

(Also on principle I feel icky having opened another game when I promised myself I wouldn't this game, but I know how long it takes to compile that kind of post so happy birthday!)

[Cheetory6]

Also even if it made the post gigantic I think direct quotes in the spoilers would have been better because it's super duper hard to follow the train of thought by clicking open 10+ links.
(also also sorry that I'm just being critical of your metadive approach lol)
((god we really are Team Old Man Yells At Cloud))

[Cheetory6]

eh sure.
VOTE: cakez

[Cheetory6]

actually idk what the count is
UNVOTE:

to be safe but like functionally imagine my vote is there sure.

[Cheetory6]

also just passing by cuz i though about something, but guys pls refrain your urge to massclaim, like, it always ends up being bad for town

massclaiming or someone claiming when we run them up?

[Cheetory6]

the meta aspect of it is kind of meh
but there's maybe something to you having been not really coming across that invested in any vote this game?

(and I have had in the back of my mind that if you do flip red you've done a good job of setting me up to be pressured cooked lol)

[Cheetory6]

is there something specific about this game that you've been demotivated about?

[Cheetory6]

@gamma

shea would like you to expand on why

[Cheetory6]

don't really think the realtime response stuff is doing you favours rn cake.
might be better off to compile a comprehensive response with your thoughts?

[Cheetory6]

I mean we're waiting on a few different things right now.
You probably have time to put together something a little less.. uh..
scattered? shotgunned? Just seems like you're not going to be able to properly respond to 3-4 people asking you a barrage of questions in real time while also laying out why you're town and someone is mafia.

[Cheetory6]

Cheet I have to say you are much more pleasant to play with this game than previously and I'm happy about that.
Even disregarding the fact that you are not deathtunneling me I think you are much more relaxed and less snarky and it's a lot more fun to play with.

<3

I've definitely had my bad moments this game already, but I do appreciate that you think I'm at least marginally better than I used to be.

[Cheetory6]

everyone can expect my 6000 word essay analyzing every single word choice from gamma emerald in this game sometime in the next 4-6 day cycles.

[Cheetory6]

Noraa please change your avatar lol.

[Cheetory6]

I was in the middle of reading a Gyp post being like "wait what this doesn't sound like something Gyp would say at all!!!!!!"
I feel betrayed!

[Cheetory6]

if I had time I would photoshop the hands to be on the face instead of pointing but I really need to do work today lol

[Cheetory6]

don't really see the downside to waiting.
esp since we literally waited for your case 4-5 days

[Cheetory6]

I think I'm falling into my usual bullshit of wanting to play it safe q_q
I'll get my ISOdives in tomorrow morning.

Think people should consider what Jingle said and try not to explode the thread too much more than it already has if you're not saying something that's adding to the thread.

[Cheetory6]

not liking this progression
you must've read my posts and something must've pinged you for you to say this

something about the tone of top vs bottom feels skeevy.
tone of scumreading cakez turning into tone of thinking cakez is town? maybe?

his haphazard randomness is quite townie

feels wibbly that this would suddenly start pinging as town out of no where

i think scum are more likely to push me, because i'm not blatant lhf so it doesn't look terrible,

but i'm pretty easy to push

is the bolded not basically essentially saying that you're low hanging fruit though?
what exactly is the distinction to be made here?

although most of the time i obvtown and or it doesn't go through

what's the difference in this game

I think the Noraa defense is the most believable section of her posting and I think it could mean that she knows Noraa is town and is leveraging that to generate content.

and frankly, i think maria has heaps of clout from the way people are treating her. also @spf

this kind of feels like an exaggeration given that offhand I can't think of anyone who was sheeping her besides me?

this maria post (1209) still pings me; i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted.

why did you sheep her read on maria there if you thought it was scummy and logic leapy??

jake is lhf, but should absolutely not be townread by any stretch of the imagination

I think Jake feels like it should be lower on this list given how Spring has talked about it.

sircakez has in general been pretty unafraid to give his opinions, and tonally reads as blunt town. maybe it's a soulread, i just think he's town

Also think this read is a lot sparser in terms of reasoning than other reads she's given.

I feel like I gave spring ammunition to respond to pink's delay on his push on her. Oops.

I have gripes with Pink Ball's case but it feels very unimportant to voice them so I won't wee!!

[Cheetory6]

I'm literally in a state of shock that you didn't choose to shoot me ten times as revenge for fortnight.

[Cheetory6]

hell yeah.

[Cheetory6]

has nobody poked at the weird bit spring had about maria and spf before now btw?

[Cheetory6]

it's not even a case really, just ISOdive notes >_>

[Cheetory6]

Both SPF and me.

this is a separate thing from sheeping maria things
its that spring susses spf's maria townread, but then agrees with it
and then later says that the reasoning for the maria townread was not good which makes her agreeing with it weird?

unless I'm misreading that interaction.

[Cheetory6]

don't think it's the same point?

you're saying that spring jumping on a wagon that maria is on while scumreading maria is weird.
I'm saying that spring agreeing with spf's assessment on maria while also calling spf's reasoning scummy and bad later is weird.

[Cheetory6]

Earlier on post:

not really liking this post from spf, it seems pretty reachy/appeasement

it's just maria saying i could do X or i could do Y.

it does mean maria is probably town though

Recent post:

i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted.

I'm admittedly a little unclear about where the bolded in the first section is coming from, but it feels like there's something funky happening between the time of the first post and the second.

p-edit: I mean, if Spring is mafia then you clearly had her pegged from early on, I don't think anyone can take that away from you lol.

[Cheetory6]

I'm in a weird place where I think gamestate would probably be better if we just sent Spring now.
But also like.. I feel wonky about not getting a claim q_q why am I like this

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: spring

I went to ask teammates what they think about spring saying they would only claim after catching up and then realized they were probably just going to tell me to do this.

[Cheetory6]

There's already too much content, plus I think this is usually the point in a day phase where people start getting tired/frustrated without flips to work on and my bad-memory says that things tend to get more toxic at that point.

[Cheetory6]

the role could be a genuine scum-role but yeah idk I kind of want to vote Cakez again D:

Pooky is there a reason you're not trying to pull apart the wagon on Spring?

[Cheetory6]

also Spring if you have time can you take a look at some of my questions? Particularly the bit on your Maria read?

[Cheetory6]

so it's like..
putting her out of her misery?

[Cheetory6]

I'm confused, why does Kanna claiming a weak role after softing a strong one make you want to kill her less?

I mean, it's not entirely based on that, but it does feel slightly +town for her to have been feeling spiteful while also wanting to content drop before dying?

[Cheetory6]

Or I guess the spiteful thing is null but it's at least better than an eventual confirmation claim would have been.

[Cheetory6]

@Spring

, 2495

I don't think so, considering as scum she'd definitely want to stall if she thinks there's any way at all she gets out of this.

I'm not entirely sure the state of my read on the game is entirely rational atm tbh q_q
We can talk opinions on the claim again in 12 hours when my brain is settled.

Not sure if you caught my post Cheetory but is your profile pic Claire Stanfield from Baccano? Certainly looks it to me.

ye he looks kind of similar to me and I really dug the anime when I first joined the site so it's been kind of my staple go-to avatar over the years.

[Cheetory6]

excessively long games are bad for town.
d1 is probably the most okay day to overdo it but I think we need to close this one out soon.

[Cheetory6]

there are a lot of enormous games where scum just slide through the game because there's too much content to sift through.
civ mafia is a good example of a scum sweep where it was 600+ pages.

[Cheetory6]

why are we pointing out softs lol
gamma this doesn't matter